tv Caught on Camera MSNBC January 10, 2015 12:00pm-1:01pm PST
it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru. major breaking news in the investigation of the france terror siege. reports out today that suggest the female suspect in the attacks may not have even been in the country when they went down. good afternoon, everyone. i'm francis a. thank you very joining us on the extensive coverage of the events in france. officials continue searching for the fourth suspect linked to this week's terror attacks. we are getting new reports about hayat boumediene. she was believed to have been inside the grocery store during friday's attack. now french media is reporting police sources believe she flew to turkey on january 2nd, and then crossed over to syria. the associated press quotes a turkish official who says they believe that the suspect passed
through that country. nbc news has not yet confirmed this. meanwhile, president hollande held a security meeting with officials to thwart off any repeat attacks. a rally is planned for tomorrow. several world leaders are said to attend, including the britain prime minister and german chancellor. several cities saw a massive show of unity ahead of the rally. many people marching in solidarity of the victims. one siege in paris where coulibaly was killed. the brothers, said and cherif kouachi were killed in a gun battle with police. 17 people were killed in the attacks. you want to get to ron allen.
tell me more about these reports of hiayat about how manboumedie. >> reporter: french authorities won't answer any questions about her role in the events of yesterday. it's a bigamist mystery. the idea she left the country some time ago has some truth to it. we cannot confirm this. there was no confirmed citings of her at the supermarket. the hostages in the supermarket when the raid and siege happened, they know the suspect is dead. there are four hostages who tragically lost their lives. where else would she be? the authorities have been all over the neighborhood and the community and the families of the gunmen, because they've been known to the authorities here for quite some time, which is also one of the big concerns here. how can people who were known to the authorities, who had prison records, in some cases, how
could they essentially slip through the cracks? they have been under surveillance and carried out these crimes. coordinate this thing in a horrible, bloody way. she is a big mystery in this. if she's left the country, that might add a measure of calm in the situation here. it's one thing to have a suspect who is armed and dangerous running around town and unaccounted for, and another thing to have that person in a foreign country and away from all of this. that is important because things have been tense in paris today and around the country, despite the huge marches. people are still concerned and worried, angry as well, concerned about what might happen next. terrorism is nothing new here, identify been saying since we've been here, but it hasn't shown its stark face in such a deadly
manner in a very long time here. it's shocking for this community, and it's shocking for the government here. they're really trying to figure out how to cope with this going forward. >> hopefully that massive unity rally tomorrow will help in the start of the healing for the french and for the country. thank you so much for that report. we want to bring in a foreign editor, christopher dickey, and a senior analyst with a private security firm, flash point global partners. thank you for being with us one more time. christopher, what's the sense you're getting as far as the anxiety about tomorrow's rally and the heightened security for it? >> well, i think everybody is, i think that was ron allen before, everybody is very, very nervous in this city. they are starting to get out to the shops again. there are more people on the streets. it probably does make people feel better that boumediene may be out of the country.
the real question is whether there are other cells around, other groups. nobody expected this one to be in operation, so they just don't know what might lie in store. it is a little bit like after 9/11, if you were in new york at that time, you just didn't know what was coming next. i think that feeling still lingers. obviously, the rally tomorrow will make people feel good if it comes off without a hitch, it is a huge target. >> sure. four days ago, the kouachi brothers were unknown to you and me and everybody else. now the names, faces, the images have been broadcast around the world, along with the shooting. is this the thing we should be worried about, as far as inspiring other would-be terrorists? >> that's a very important point and it's absolutely important. just right after the kouachi brothers conducted their operations and they became a household name in france and around the world, the jihadists online launched a social media
campaign in support of them. inflecting on the je suis charlie hashtag launched. they're trying to battle the french sense of relief now by launching their campaign and trying to yet instill more horror and terror in french society, at least online. >> there may be some sense of reassurance, knowing the reports, if they're true, that boumediene may not be in france. christopher, what about her believed to be the common law wie of one of the suspects. she was in contact with the significant others of the brothers, it was reported. what more are you learning about her and the confusion as to where she is? >> well, i think part of the confusion was generated by the confused reporting yesterday. i don't remember ever hearing from the police or the government, which has been pretty closed mouth, that she was supposed to be inside the
grocery. that's the kind of thing that people sort of guessed after her picture was released, along with coulibalys. i think the reason it was released is because she was the key link known to the authorities between him and the kouachis. the two wives, the younger kouachi's wife and hiayat boumediene were in contact all the time. there were more than 500 phone calls between them in the course of the last year. once the police saw that, they said, she is a key figure, and that's why they put her face out there. >> christopher, i want to ask you, you've been writing about the investigation into who the terrorists were. they were on the u.s. no fly list and had been flagged by the u.s. intelligence community. they were on the french intelligence committee's radar. what was the misstep in not monitoring them closer?
>> it was a huge mess up. the question i have is when did the french become aware that the older brother, said, had gone to yemen? if they knew that in 2012, '13 or '14, if they knew that any time before the last week, why were they not all over him like white on rice? it just isn't clear. that is exactly what you look for. there are handbooks for studying radicalization and dangerous individuals issued by the nypd, among others. this is like a red flag that's as big as a football field. it really is not clear how they could have missed that one, unless they somehow did not know. the americans clearly did know, so maybe there was a miscommunication between the americans and the french. >> how can that change things and improve things for france and other countries in the eu and how they fight terror threats? >> i think intelligence is absolutely key in these situations. any lead, any kind of piece of
information that could lead to understanding this bigger picture a lot better is absolutely important. i think, you know, the french authorities are going to amplify their security measures, put in place proactive and sort of protective measures in places like the rally location, but also generally speaking going forward. the other point is i think there will be conducting better surveillance in the future. i think they will be launching an nu style of following on every lead and not let some of the leads hibernate and sit still. fall on every lead, every information, and try to connect the dots and see if terror suspects have been communicating with parties inside or outside of france. >> we know after this that the large muslim population in france, being one of the biggest if not the biggest in the eu, how is this going to shift the tensions they see there? >> we know that in france, obviously, there has been a lot
of tension between muslims and non-muslims. the national party has been leading the effort in kind of instilling a lot of islam phobia in the french society. it's not deterring the muslim population from standing up with the government and the french people and actually, you know, present statements of solidarity with their own country. ultimately, they are french, and i think that really stands in their communities and in the environment they live in. >> and the argument that this is not about religion. this is about terror, and terrorism from terrorists. religion aside. >> indeed. >> we thank you both for being with us. for your perspective this afternoon. >> thank you, francis. now to a message of support from president obama yesterday to the people of france after a bloody and terrifying week there. nbc news white house correspondent kristin welker joins me now. tell us about the white house response to these attacks. >> top officials here at the white house have been in touch with their counterparts in
france throughout the week as they monitor the situation. as you pointed out, president obama has expressed the fact that the united states stands shoulder to shoulder with france. it has offered its full support in the investigation. on thursday, president obama made an unannounced stop at the french embassy where he called france america's oldest ally. listen to more of what he had to say. >> france is our oldest ally. i want the people of france to know that the united states stands with you today, stands with you tomorrow. we stand for freedom and hope and the dignity of all human beings, and that's what the city of paris represents to the world. that spirit will endure forever, long after the scourge of terrorism is banished from this world. >> reporter: that was president obama speaking in knoxville, tennessee, on friday, where he set out to make remarks about college affordability.
before he made the remarks, he talked about france. that underscores the extent to which this dominated discussions at the white house. federal officials have been in touch with state and local officials all across the country, urged them to be an heightened alert. there has been extra security at consulates all across the country. chicago, new york, atlanta. there have been stepped up controls by the secret service as well. important to point out there is no known terror threat against the united states right now, according to intelligence officials. there are no plans to increase the terror threat level here. still, this is something that's going to dominate the focus and attention behind the scenes at the white house. >> attorney general holder will travel to paris on monday for an anti-terrorism summit. what can you tell us about that? >> reporter: that's right. he's going to participate in that anti-terrorism summit. one of the key topics of discussion is going to be foreign fighters. of course, foreign fighters are those behind the attacks that we saw this week in france.
this has been a big concern of the obama administration, particularly as it is launched the campaign against isis. it's estimated that as many as 100 americans have gone to the middle east region to get trained by iraq, by isis -- not by iraq, but al qaeda, isis, and have plans to come back to the united states. as many as 2,000 europeans would fall into that category of foreign fighters. it is a big concern moving forward, particularly in the fight against isis. france is one of the united states's key allies in that fight. >> kristin welker reporting from the white house. we'll look deeper at the role of the female suspect in the paris attacks. there are indications she may not have been in the country at the time of the attacks. doesn't mean she wasn't a part of the plot. fbi profiler joins us in a few minutes for that. more news this afternoon, u.s. and coalition forces carried out 12 air strikes
against isis targets in syria. all of the strikes but one happened near kobani. forces took out isis units and fighting positions. american-led forces launched three air strikes against isis targets in iraq. crews have recovered the tail of air asia flight 8501 from the java sea. they're looking for the black box data recorders and they could be in the tail. the boxes could help investigators figure out why the plane went down. the tail was discovered in the ocean floor earlier this week. it crashed two weeks ago with 162 people on board. some of missouri's top leaders tried to pressure ferguson police chief jackson to resign, but they were not successful. according to the associated press, following the death of michael brown, several local and state officials, community leaders and members of law enforcement held several meetings where they tried to force jackson to step down. jackson was criticized for the way his department handled the investigation and clashes with protesters. the group tried to get darren
wilson, the officer who killed brown, to resign before the grand jury announced its decision. it ultimately decided not to charge wilson. word is a fourth suspect in yesterday's attacks in paris may have escaped to syria. how do investigators find her? my sister's wedding well it's only 100 calories, so you'll be ready for that dress uh-huh... you don't love the dress? i love my sister... 40 flavors. 100 calories or less.
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we continue to follow a development in the investigation of the france terrorist attacks. police hayat boumediene flew to turkey and then syria. the reports have not been confirmed. joining me now is a fbi profiler, clint. thank you for joining us. are you surprised about this confusion here and the reports about the female suspect, that it's gone from her being involved in the attacks and in the grocery store during the time of the hostage ordeal to now questions about whether she was even in the country at the
time. >> yeah. a couple of issues. number one, we never have any -- we have vyet to have a credible source put her at the scene of the murder of the two officers. her boyfriend/husband allegely did that. number two, we have the takeover of the kosher market where, again, people were suggesting both her boyfriend, who was slain in that after he killed four people, as well as she was there. but when i was an fbi agent, i had the occasion to work with the french counterterrorism team. they are very, very good. hostage rescue 101 says when the hostages come out, you assign one officer, one agent, one soldier, somebody gets with every released person because you don't know if they're good guys, bad guys, if they have
explosive vests. gign would never make a mistake like that and let her get out of the market in that quote, unquote, confusion. i did an interview yesterday and someone asked, will they find her in paris? i said, she is highly likely to have got out of the country already. now, i thought maybe she got out this week. as you just suggest, there are reports that said she traveled from paris to spain to turkey and then slid across the border into syria. if she did that, and if she is at all linked up with isis, she would be a trophy like person to have, that they'd hold her up and say, look, not only is she a terrorist involved in this, but she's a woman. they'll try to get all the positive publicity, as terrorists get, that they can out of having her be able to get into syria and use her for that purpose. >> you mean to say in that sense, if they're hailing her, are you saying we should have heard about it by now?
>> we will hear about it. i think once they're sure they have her, once they're sure that she's not any place where military can get to her, or a drone strike can get to her, i think they will start using her presence, if she's there, to hype the movement in the organizations that take credit for this. the bottom line is, whether she was a trigger puller this week or not makes no difference. >> right. >> she's a tremendous source of intelligence. >> that's exactly the point i want to bring up. just because she wasn't in the country or inside the grocery store during the attacks during mean she's not playing a huge role in the terror attack. >> you know, to be a successful terror cell organization, wolf pack, whatever we want to call these people, you have to have logistical people. you have to have somebody there who is counting the bullets,
counting the franks or the dollars, who is using their telephone. we know that her telephone was used to make 500 contacts with the wife of one of the two brothers who was killed, who were killed in the terrorist attack. what terrorists have learned is that we don't talk to each other. we let our wives, our girlfriends, do the talking for us. even though the french grabbed these 500 contacts and have them, evidently, it didn't rise to the level where they thought they should put a 24 hour a day surveillance on these guys. because the reality is, 2,000 plus or minus french passport carriers have gone to the middle east to fight and come back again. which one of those are parts of a terror cell that are going to activate, knowing it takes about 10 or 12 police officers to do a surveillance. you do the math, and it's just impossible. you do the best you can.
you triage the bad guys and figure out who the worst of the worst is, that's where you put the resources. >> always good to have your perspective. we appreciate it. >> thank you. the attack at the offices of the satirical magazine charlie hebdo triggered unity from people around the world. people using the phrase, i am charlie. the magazine was targeted for its depiction of the muslim prophet. cartoonists have generated support for charlie hebdo and against those who would silence the freedom of expression. james is an editorial cartoonist with a career in indiana, and we appreciate you being with us. >> i'm delighted to be here. >> your initial reaction to the attack and to know the people were targeted for a freedom you enjoy, the freedom of expression. >> absolutely.
i turned on my computer that morning, and the second i saw the words "charlie hebdo," i knew this was an attack about cartoons. i clicked through and read the story with kind of deepening sadness and horror. and realized that four cartoonists were among the dead. >> in essence, it's also inspired you to draw as well. we have images of the cartoons you drew in solidarity. one is someone sketching, i am charlie. as a terrorist points a gun and the words "powerful" over the terrorists. then the words, more powerful over the cartoonist. the other, as you just saw, is the statue of liberty bearing the words, je suis charlie, i am charlie. what made you want to draw these cartoons after the attack? >> i knew that immediately the message i wanted to send was a message that ultimately, ideas
and creativity is a more powerful force than violence. the simplest way to do that seemed to be to contrast a man with a gun and somebody creating something. you know, while this was an attack obviously literally on cartoonists, this is also an attack on people like you. it's an attack on journalists. much more wide than that, it's an attack on the principle of free expressions. poets, novelists and musicians, and everybody else. i wanted to convey that message with the first cartoon, that the power of creativity and imagination, the power of ideas is a much more powerful weapon than a gun. >> why are these editorial cartoons to you so important in democracy, especially that these in some sense drawings are more
powerful than words in conveying your message? >> yeah. it's really amazing, i think. charlie hebdo is part of a tradition in europe, going all the way back to the reformation of producing cartoons that are outrageous and highly provocative and deeply offensive to people at whom they're aimed. i don't know if it's something to do with the way we're wired as human beings. it seems like if you look at cave paintings and so on, we were expressed ourselves with simple drawings before we had written language. i think there's almost something primal in the way we're responding to visual images like that. >> i can imagine you've been so moved to see the solidarity with your fellow cartoonists around the world after this. >> it was absolutely amazing, francis. i think i felt certainly that i was a part of this from the get go. these were fellow cartoonists,
albeit, way more famous than i am. literally within minutes and certainly within hours, you saw initially a few and then dozens and then scores and eventually hundreds of editorial cartoons from every part of the world, making the comment that, you know, the pen is mightier than the sword. the #je suis charlie. >> we thank you for sharing your drawings with us, as well as your spoken words. thank you. >> thank you so much for having me. french intelligence were aware of the suspects in the paris terror attacks and the brothers were believed to have ties to terrorists. next, we'll look at how u.s. law enforcement tracks potential terrorists like the kouachi brothers. the world is filled with air. but for people with copd, sometimes breathing air can be difficult. if you have copd, ask your doctor about once-daily anoro ellipta. it helps people with copd breathe better
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turkish officials who say she crossed through the country. those reports have not been confirmed by nbc news. we'll have more on this in a moment. we want to take a moment to remember another victim from wednesday's shooting at the charlie hebdo offices there. the only woman killed that day, elsa. she was a psychologist who wrote a column for charlie hebdo. the woman who says she was one of her patients wrote that elsa was leaving her patients without their mirror. she was 54 years old. as we speak, police are searching desperately for the partner of the alleged gunman in the attack of the supermarket in paris. her name is hayat boumediene. her alleged accomplice, coulibaly, was killed at the supermarket. the suspects at the charlie hebdo offices were killed in a separate raid miles from paris.
we spoke with a judge who was involved with one of the brothers long before these attacks. i understand you have some new information. >> reporter: that's right. just coming in, french media reporting that five individuals close to the kouachi brothers have just been released by french security authorities, by french police. that includes, we're told, the wife of cherif kouachi and his brother-in-law. this speaks to how fluid the law enforcement situation is here. someone who knows that well, is that judge you mentioned. he is someone who is intimately acquainted with the kouachi's case. he actually was, as you mentioned, in charge of prosecuting cherif kouachi several years ago. he told me that that system of french law enforcement is fraught with difficulties, in particular to following these apprehensions. take a listen.
>> we don't have any here, and i see it's the same. we can do it by intelligence, not on a judicial level because there is no reason to do that. >> reporter: that's something we have heard over and over again. it's extraordinarily difficult just from a resourcing standpoint to keep track of these individuals, even when the justice system has come into contact with them. we've seen the tragic results of that here in this story. >> absolutely. give us a sense when you're talking to people there in paris, at least a sense of some relief, knowing there may be reports the fourth suspect may no longer be in france and how they're dealing with this, especially with the massive unity rally gearing up for tomorrow. >> reporter: honestly, people here have whiplash. there have been scares all day, false reports of break throughs, as well as false reports of new
tragic events. none of that has yet panned out. people are very much in wait and see mode. people are quite philosophical at this point. the monument behind me here, you probably can't see it in the lighting right now, but it's draped with questions like, what kind of a society do we want to build? a lot of talk that will dominate this rally tomorrow. the other big concern, of course just security, physical security along this route, which will start right here. there will be snipers on these rooftops around me. there will be a large, large amount of security and police. we'll be here through tomorrow and the people on the ground i'm talking to are concerned that that just stays safe. >> it also seems from behind you in stores and shops, that people are still trying to go about their daily life and daily living there, after what they've been through. >> reporter: that's exactly right. it's a quiet weekend. people, as i said, are tense.
there are rallies all around the country, for sure. we were at a moment of silence at a nearby town hall earlier. people are coming together, but they're also trying to go on with their lives. a difficult thing right now with news still coming in by the moment in this investigation. >> hopefully that unity rally will be the start of the healing. thank you for that report out of paris. joining me now is a military analyst. as always, good to see you, general. let's start with what you make of this confusion about the female suspect and questions about whether she was in the country at the time of the attacks. >> of course, law enforcement authorities in france, who are extremely good, will try to sort this out. it's not just her. there is undoubtedly other supporters, logistics. they're not at the end of this investigation. i think the bigger issue, francis, is france has 7% of the population is muslims.
many of whom second generation do not feel part of france society. that's a lesson for those here in the united states. there's hundreds of thousands of muslims, do they feel integrated into our society? i think the answer generally is yes. i think that's the point of debate that we have to focus on. >> also, concern about copycat attacks here in france or elsewhere, especially knowing their names or images, four or five days ago, we didn't know who the guys were and now everybody knows their name and what they look like. that may be the inspiration for other attacks. >> no question. that internet has allowed the jihadist philosophy to flow across borders. we've seen issues in the united states. somali kids headed to fight. more than 100 americans are in the middle east fighting with probably isis. some will come back.
thank god for the fbi, customs and border protection. the nsa, you know, and the agency operations. we have to keep our eye on them. again, we have to remind ourselves, hundreds of thousands of loyal muslim americans, their kids are going to school, the girls are getting an education, they're not afraid of the police, and they have freedom of religion. that's our first point of, seems to me, policy debate, is to make sure that's the way muslim americans think. >> now focus on antiterror intelligence there in the wake of this attack in france and in europe. let's talk about boumediene, if she's in syria. how difficult will it be for the french authorities to get to her? >> it's likely impossible. trying to actually take part in, you know, covert operation inside syria, going on for many intelligence services, the brits, u.s., france and others. she's beyond reach of the law.
the most likelihood is that if she reemerges and goes back into the jihadist network that exists in london, in spain, in france, in germany, they've got to watch their borders. the eu, european union, has done very badly at having border control. there's none, of course, as you know, to eu passport holders. you can move around that system freely with no border control. >> we know the importance and the influence and propaganda, especially when it comes to these extremists. how concerns of use of her as propaganda for terrorists if she's alive and if she's able to speak out in. >> well, it ought to be a concern. it's not just propaganda. i think the value to the islamic state fighters of having foreigners who are native language speakers who have pass worth
por portes, who can cross borders is enormous. the contrast, the united states has done extremely well compared to centers of jihadist terrorism, like london, paris, madrid, et cetera. it's a huge challenge. you can't change a free society. you have to maintain sort of maturity and sobriety about dealing with the issue. but it's a threat to all of us. >> sure. how can we take that away in the united states, as far as law enforcement tracking risks like the kouachi brothers when they leave and train abroad and come back. what can our take away be? >> certainly, we're not going to strip people of american citizenship as they try to get back into the country. there's been discussion about that. the notion that we're going to survey people every day, hundreds is nonsense. we need point of defense security. i think the cartoonist
publication was grossly remiss in not having adequate point defenses. again, back to one of the challenges we had the debate over snowden and the national security agency. under the rule of law, we must allow the fbi and the cia and nsa and other agencies to try and discover these threats before they're carried out. i think that's another examination of public policy we need to go through in the coming months. >> examination. as we all know, the debate that follows it. general, as always, thank you for your perspective. >> good to be with you. just ahead, a look at another story. mitt romney is considering another run at the white house. will the third time be the charm?
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seems to have changed his mind. romney told a small group of donors he's now thinking about a third run, saying, quote, everybody in here can go tell your friends i am considering a run. end quote. how will this effect the gop field? joining me now, lyn swede and aaron blake. welcome to the program. >> hello. >> lyn, what can cause romney to change his mind and go for a third? >> from what i hear talking to one of his people is he thinks the existing gop field out there is too weak to beat presumed democratic nominee, hillary clinton. that's after the last race, saying he won't get in again, to telling his donors not to go with jep bub bush or chris chri. >> aaron, he told the donors he
would run a different campaign than in the past, and he's already run twice. what would he do different? >> it's a good question. it's important to note here that, of course, mitt romney lost in 2012. they were surprised by that outcome, but they felt they were wronged. they felt the 47% thing was blown out of proportion. republican leaders really, really like mitt romney on a personal level, and they think he's got the potential to be a strong candidate. the problem is that the polls don't show he's a popular person. his unfavorable rating is higher than the favorable rating, even though he's been out of the spotlight for two years. you have to wonder if they're thinking with their head or heart on this one. >> they may be looking at say, for instance, the abc news "washington post" poll where romney led the field. he has 21% of the support, jeb bush with 10%, paul gets 9%.
so is he the automatic winner, even with jeb bush potentially in the field here, and is he really going to run? >> well, i don't know, and he doesn't know, according to everything we know if he's going to run. here's the most important thing he has to do right now. the gop primary, it's a money primary now, and he has to stop from having his donors, who overlap with governor chris christie and former governor bush from committing themselves. that's the place he's in now. i think we know a little bit about how a campaign would be different in 2016 than 2012, and the biggest difference would be that it's an open seat now. in 2012, he was running against obama. it was a referendum on the president more than on mitt romney. if he goes again, from what i hear, he would make it a little more personal.
he'd talk a little more himself because he wouldn't have to be running against someone in the white house. >> certainly, the third time, and your pride and ego at stake. i want to switch to the keystone pipeline. yesterday the nebraska supreme court overturned a lower court ruling that struck down a root for the pipeline, and the house also passed a bill to approve it. today, republicans are putting pressure on the presidents to approve it despite the veto threat. here is the senator talking about it in the gop weekly address. listen. >> if the president isn't willing to get on board with the keystone pipeline, which nearly 70% of the american people support, all the states along with route have approved in a bipartisan majority of congress has passed, what will it take for him to work with us to get something done? >> all right. to you, lynn, is the president going to have to cave on this? >> well, i don't think so, not at this time. i think if the keystone pipeline
lands on his desk, it'll be one of the first vetoes of 2015. >> aaron, in the time we have, the president says he's going to veto it. what point are republicans trying to make in sending a bill to the president they know he'll veto? >> it's basically a public relations game. they want to say the president vetoes something that is overwhelmingly popular. in the house, it got eight votes clear of having a veto override majority. they're saying obama is going against the will of a bipartisan congress and democrats will vote for this, although not a majority. this is really about creating a public relations argument over the issue and maybe forcing the white house to bend to the will of the people, so to speak. >> all right. thank you both so much. appreciate the discussion. >> thank you. up next, former cia director could face felony charges for leeking classified information.
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updating on two breaking developments we are following in connection with the france terror attacks. french media is reporting that the female suspect in the attacks may have traveled to syria on january 2nd. a turkish official said she crossed through this country. none of these reports have been confirmed by nbc news. and as msnbc's ronan farrow just reported, french media is reporting that french police have released some of the family members and associates of the kouachi brothers, two of the terror suspects killed yesterday. of course we'll have the latest on these developments ahead. now to a surprising developing story in washington today.
retired four-star general and ousted cia director david petraeus could face felony charges. the fbi and justice department have recommended that petraeus be charged for leaking classified information to his mistress paula broadwell. joining me is retired army journal jack jacobs msnbc military analyst. nice to have you back with us. what could it mean for the military here if the generation's most illustrious leader ends up in federal prison? >> i think it's highly unlikely actually. the information about the e-mails and the relationship had been out there for some time, yet no charges have been made, it hasn't been referred to a federal prosecutor. i think it's highly unlikely he'll be charged and if he is it won't be a felony. >> i want to bring this in, his lawyer insists he didn't do anything wrong. "new york times" has said that he has no interest in a plea
deal. knowing the petraeus that you know, how will he respond to these accusations, the possibility of charges? >> i think with great vigor. i think he'll dig his heels in. the onus is on the government therefore to prove the felony charges, and in this situation and in any situation like this, you have to prove intent. intent is really hard to prove, i think particularly difficult in this case i. think that the administration has not -- this is one of the reasons they've been dragging their feet -- particularly interested in having a headline grabbing show trial in the last semester of the president's administration. i think this is the last thing they want. >> even if they have to appear unbiased about this, would they want to bring charges especially knowing that the obama administration has really been unprecedented in their campaign against leaks here? they've had more indictments than any other administrations combined. also we know the major debate about the bin laden leaks here. would they do it as far as
making a point there? >> they're highly motivate nd that case, but i think that's why they're agonizing over it. he's well thought of in the military establishment and outside of the military establishment and also in the halls of congress. it would be a very messy public trial. they would love for the whole thing to go away, but they can't make it. >> where does his reputation now stand at this point within the military community? you were talking about after all that time, and this is coming up now. what are your thoughts now? >> he's very well-respected. the law of large numbers is that some people are going to hate him or despise him for what he has done, what he could have made of himself but didn't because he did what he did and so on. but as an intellect, as a military thinker, as a strategist, much more than a tactician, as a strategist, he's extremely well thought of. that's another reason why it will be very, very difficult to bring charges. >> dow think we'll hear from
him? >> i think not. i think not directly. his lawyer is bob bennett, very, very famous guy, a junkyard dog, very serious defender. i think we're not going to hear from him directly. we'll hear everything through bennett. >> colonel jack jacobs, good to have your perspective. up next, we continue to follow breaking news out of france. we'll have the latest for the search for a fourth suspect in the terror siege yesterday. stay with us. motor trend's 2015 car of the year? we'll give you four good reasons the all-new volkswagen golf starting at $17,995. there's an award winning golf for everyone. ring ring!... progresso! it's ok that your soup tastes like my homemade. it's our slow simmered vegetables and tender white meat chicken. apology accepted. i'm watching you soup people.
breaking news in the french terror siege and the remains of the lone remaining suspect on the loose. good afternoon, everyone. i'm frances rivera. thanks for joining us. back to paris and the highest terror alert remains in effect in france. this as we get new reports that the woman linked to the terror system suspects may into the
have been involved as previously thought. hayat boumeddiene is still being pursued. but they say she flew to turkey and then crossed over to syria on january 2nd. this morning president francois hollande haddage emergency meeting. forces are planning for a major unity rally. ahead of tomorrow's rally, several cities showed tens of thousands marching in solidarity with the victims of this week's attacks, a day after yesterday's dual sieges, one in eastern paris where amedy was killed inside a kosher grocery store simultaneously