tv Morning Joe MSNBC February 16, 2015 3:00am-6:01am PST
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yazidi. yazidi. yazidi yazidi. ♪ it is 6:00 on the east coast. welcome to "morning joe." >> it is cold out there. >> a frigid morning on the east coast. at least we don't have the snow that new england has. >> global warming? >> i'm moving to boca. where is global warming. >> it is brutal. they don't know where to put it. boston rhode island and up to maine. richard haass is with us. richard, a lot to talk to you about this morning. managing editor of bloomberg politic, mark halperin. we also have the contributing editor at the atlantic graham wood. the timing of your cover story is amazing. >> amazing. i was on a plane last night. i turned to jesse rodriguez and i said you've got to read this article and get this guy on
"morning joe." he said he's already in the morning. >> already done. >> this is one of the most insightful, one of the most insightful articles that i've read about what isis really wants. we're going to talk about it. it is the most insightful article as we're just now starting to get our arms around this terror outfit and mistake we always seem to make is we try to apply our values to our enemies or to our rivals and try to look at it through that prism. and we've just been ignorant in the west. that's why we've gotten off to a terrible start. >> as we begin now with the horrifying new video released by the islam make state and the military response it has provoked yet again. isis released a video on sunday purportedly showing the beheadings of 21 egyptian christians in libya. the video shows a line of men in orange jump suits being led down a beach forced to their knees, and then beheaded. the egyptian government has declared the video authentic.
in sunday night address egypt's president vowed his country would avenge the killings. earlier this morning that happened. less than 12 hours after the release of the video the egyptian military announced it had carried out air strikes in libya in retaliation for killing 40 militants -- 40 to 50 militants in retaliation. it is the first time egypt publicly acknowledged military action in neighboring libya. the white house statement condemned the despicable and cowardly murder in the video and only further galvanizes the international community to unite against isis. >> graham everybody is thinking -- and i guess the biggest thing your article revealed is we all like to sit here and go oh, they just get these sociopaths from across the world who are attracted to just kill and they just want to kill and the killing is the end game. no, the killing is not the end
game. you sum it up here well. the islamic state is no mere collection of psychopaths. it's a religious groups with carefully considered beliefs, among them is that it is a key agent for the coming apocalypse. they don't want just land. they don't have a long-term strategy. they are religious fanatics but they are planning out the final days. >> that's right. often it's said that isis is an organization that uses religious means for our secular ends. i think it might be the other way around. that it's an organization that has religious ends and it uses secular means to achieve the ends. but finally what it's looking for is an apocalyptic solution. >> i picked this up in the mork "new york times." i thought it was interesting read that here but then "the new york times" pointed out, richard haass, that the executioner who was speaking in fluent english actually used words out of the
koran that were text talking about the coming apocalypse the final battle between east and west. >> that's what's different about this group. i mean it's part organization it's part network, it's part movement. but unlike some other terrorist groups who seem to get up in the morning trying simply to destroy for revenge for history, these people have a, quote, unquote, positive agenda which means that they're much more dangerous and they're likely to be -- much greater endurance. >> explain because a lot of people spit out their coffee. when you say positive agenda. >> as misguided as we think it is, they have a political agenda. here we are in the 21th century. they might want to go back to the 7th century. when they speak of the call fat they're not geographically confined. it's throughout the region. positive not in a positive sense that i approve it obviously. >> i'm cleaning it up for you monday morning. >> what it means is that these people are more than destroyers.
as misguided as they are they are in their own blinded ways trying to build something. >> what your article, graham pointed out was that westerners, petty thiefs and robbers and assaulters which across the planet don't understand and they will say, this isn't islam, this is as far from islam as possible. you say this actually is a stripped down and pure islam as it gets. it's what very crude way to put it is this would be the ultrafundamentalist christians who believe every single word of the bible has to be interpreted in the exact ways which could also lead to some violence. but here they actually believe that they're going towards end days and that's this agenda that richard is talking about. >> you can see that actually in the video that came out yesterday. as you mentioned, the quote
directly from some of the holy texts of islam that they mentioned the second coming of jesus christ for example. >> right. >> they say when jesus is coming back and they quote and say he will break the cross, he will kill the swine, and he abolish the tax levied on christians in the islamic state. this is very specific use of tesks text. it's not people of speaking without any knowledge of islam but a view of what islam looks like. it's a view that very few muslims share. >> that's the most important thing. and that's the balancing act that we're doing here is yes, as you say, this is the most stripped down purist 7th century form of islam. only a small, small, small number of the billion plus muslims across the globe follow. but, at the same time it has that draw because there is no
compromise. it is pure and it is -- >> hold on one second. as "the new york times" points out isis is expanding beyond its strongholds in iraq and syria, to your point, according to one counter terror official the group is quote, beginning to assemble a growing international footprint footprint. that includes affiliates in afghanistan, algeria, egypt, and libya. less formal pledges of support in jordan lebanon, saudi arabia yemen. richard, the reaction that they get is also part of what they want to create. is it not? i mean when they have -- they're not looking to live through this. they're looking to bring the end of the world or something beyond that. >> some of the extreme violence is meant to intimidate undermine resolve, create a sense of inevitabilitynd momentum. that's a big part of it. >> provoke. >> provoke but also what you said before is right. there may be a core there that actually is so much schooled again, as misguided as we think it is in their select tex ural
interpretation that after all of these years of decades of hue mill tags they seem to represent something positive. even if there is this core that may be schooled there's a much -- thousands and thousands that are being attracted to them. many of them are anything but schooled and they are attracting some -- >> misguided as it may be it is a religious draw and that is a -- it is a powerful powerful magnet to this organization. of course, we saw that play out in copenhagen this weekend. >> the second terrorist attack in a european capital in just over a month. the swift spread of terror across europe landed in copenhagen on saturday when a dan anybody born attacker took the lives of two people and wounded five others before being killed by police. this suspected gunman opened fire saturday at a free speech seminar taking place at a cafe. authorities say the target may have been one of the events' organizers, a swedish artist who
had published cartoons of the ss prophet mohammed in the past. the attacker left more than 20 bullet holes in the front window killing one person and injuring three police officers. the artist was unharmed but has been the target of several threats since 2007 when he drew the prophet mohammed's head on a dog's body. al qaeda had even offered a bounty for his murder. about nine hours after that shooting the gunman killed a security guard protecting about baz mitzva celebration. he fled on foot and an ensuing shootout with police officers left the suspected gunman dead. in the wake of the attack israeli prime minister bejamin netanyahu called for a, quote, massive immigration of european jews to israel. netanyahu said quote, this wave of attacks is expected to continue. we say to our jewish brothers and sisters, israel is your home. go ahead, richard. what are you thinking? >> well, let's move -- it's part
of the story. on sunday officials said hundreds of graves were desecrated in a jewish cemetery in france. in the aftermath one person called eight field of ruins. and yesterday a planned entertainment event was scrubbed in sweden out of security concerns. and, richard, go ahead. >> just had a great reaction going. i was wondering what was in your mind. >> we are beginning to see an uptick in jewish immigration from europe and france in particular to israel. what the prime minister said is extraordinarily controversial in both europe and in israel. where basically a lot of jews or most jews in europe say, look we're jews but we're dan anybody, dutch we have a home here. a lot of people in israel saying immigration to israel needs to be positive. can't simply be an escape from it has to be a v momovement toward. >> we're going to bring in the u.s. ambassador to the kingdom of denmark. mr. ambassador thank you so
much for being with us this morning. we greatly appreciate it. if you could, tell us about denmark, the preparation that they had before this attack and if you expect that country is going to look more like france after the attack in terms of aggressionively going after terrorists. >> sure. it's obviously been a tough 48 hours here. denmark is a small country. an open country and is proud of that. that being said, the security services are some of the best in the business. i think you saw that frankly, play out on saturday night. we can't say enough about the dan anybodyish police and their response to it here. that being said i think, look we've seen this. we've seen this as americans. we've seen this in various countries around the world play out over the course of -- over
the course of the last years and decades. there will be a heal process. we haven't seen an attack like this in denmark in a very very long time. but what i think we've seen here over the course of the last couple of days is a real coming together of the community. we're going to see that tonight i think, with tens of thousands of people gathering at the soccer stadium right in front of me here. >> mark halperin? >> mr. ambassador, who is the enemy that the united states and denmark is now fighting? how would you define them? >> look i mean for me this is -- i'm from boston guys. i mean we saw this similar situation come up in boston. this is the gentleman -- and we're learning more and more from -- on a day-to-day basis but this is a dane born and bread in denmark, similar to what we saw in boston. of course, you don't want to make comparisons right now but
the enemy, it's not over to simplify it. it's the enemy is radicalization. the enemy is extremism. we do have to fight that through a variety of different sources and forces. >> richard haass? >> i don't know what you think but none of these guys the person involved here spent time in syria or iraq. so to me what's worrisome about this going back to our earlier conversation is it shows the power of the internet, the power of television to radicalize and the threat this now poses to not through people moving but to simply people being changed by what it is they see. and that every society now is vulnerable. >> mr. ambassador to follow up on that question. after the paris attacks we were talking about the problems that the french had been having with a growing restless muslim population. we of course yesterday talked to mika's brother mark brzezinski after the attacks and mark told me about the remarkable influx of immigrants over even the past
year to sweden. it's really on the forefront in that debate. but that's not the case in denmark. 2%, 3% maybe 4% foreign borne citizens in your country? >> yeah it's not quite the same as sweden but there are similarities. there are similarities across europe. denmark, for example, has the second highest number of per capita for infighters in europe that have gone to fight in syria. and that is significant and it's something that authorities here are dealing with on a daily basis. something, frankly, the i'm bass difficult are dealing with as well. >> all right. mr. ambassador we greatly appreciate you being with us this morning. we hope to see you again soon under better circumstances. all right. now to the cease-fire in ukraine which for the most part appears to be holding. monitors are now trying to
getting access to areas in eastern ukraine. reportedly shelled by pro-russian rebels after the truce took effect midnight on sunday. the violence is being described as sporadic and the president of france who helped broker the deal with germany and russia says leaders are now ready to roll out the next phase. that includes withdrawing heavy weapons and holding talks for local elections. >> richardhaass, the economists this weekend had a fascinating article describing president obama's response as being blight saying he's blightfully dismissing vladimir putin as a regional player and a declining power and talks about the dapger er dangers of that and we need to aggressively support the balkans -- not the balkans but the baltic states holland and other countries. do you agree with that? >> on balance i do. a sense, yes, russia is a demographically declining country but russia is a spoiler and so far at least all the optimists that putin would
somehow one day wake up and say enough and then begin to compromise, that day hasn't arrived, joe. >> if it were going to arrive it would arrive when oil prices were down, the ruble was shattered, the economy was collapsing and yet he gets even more firmly entrenched. >> i'm skeptical this cease-fire in ukraine will work. quite possible he will look to expand his control of land. why do we think that somehow what he's done there he might not do in latvia where there's a significant russian minority population. nato from what i can say is not prepared for that. and there's a tremendous gap now grown up in europe between nato's obligations and its capabilities. >> mark halperin let's talk politics. let's talk the president and congress trying to figure out exactly how they move forward with a game plan against isis. we have seen in the past after the beheadings of the americans this summer after the jordanian pilot being set on fire. we have seen polls spike for
support for military action in iraq and possibly even syria. of course, 21 christians being beheaded on a beach is only going to increase those chances of a more aggressive approach. are they not? >> if you think american leadership is required to deal with these problems, to me the most stunning thing over the weekend is when john boehner was asked on fox news sunday about the potential passage of what the president would like in terms of authorization. he didn't say i'm going to work side by side with my president and my commander in chief to get this passed. he said i don't know what's going to happen. we'll see. and that is not what the message the united states needs to be sending. i think it's great that jordan and egypt are engaged in this fight but it's still going to require american leadership to build coalitions. >> there is a country that wants to be more involved in this fight, mika. a leader from that country told me that they don't see leadership from the united states, they don't see leadership from nato and they just don't know where this is
going. >> and we have the department of homeland security being used as a political football in all -- with all that's going on. it's a little -- it's a little discouraging. we'll talk much more extensive coverage of this weekend's terror attack in denmark. we're going to speak with an eyewitness to one of the attacks. and the israeli ambassador to denmark. we're also following the severe winter weather that's affecting 33 million people. dangerous cold hitting much of the country. boston under seven feet of snow. we'll be right back.
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expected to bring up to eight inches of snow ice, and freezing rain. georgia's governor preemptively declared a state of emergency for the state's northern most counties and kentucky has activated the state's emergency operation center. the preparations are happening as new england does its best to dig out after a separate storm system dumped up to two feet of snow this weekend. this the what residents in kennebunk, maine, is up against. it covers signs and mailboxes in new hampshire. the weight of the snow caused roofs to cave. this carpet store, the roof collapsed, reducing the building to rubble. boston's mayor is asking everybody to stay off the streets today because strong winds and bitterly cold temperatures. it will also help crew which include hundreds of national guardsmen. boston is now under historic total of zeb feetseven feet of snow.
>> it's awful. it's just awful! >> yes. i can't -- i cannot believe how much snow there is. >> do you know how cold it was this weekend? >> you couldn't move literally. >> yeah. i was like -- again, i was wait for hans solo to come and save me. i was frozen. it was awful. and it just gets worse and worse and worse. >> all right. let's move on. this is one of the big stories we're covering today. snow totals. also the morning papers has this. the associated press, global hacking ring stole up to $1 billion from 100 banks and 30 countries. according to a russian security company, hackers gained access to banks' computer systems through malwear. the hackers then used the information to set up fake accounts and program atms to dispense money at precise times. >> wow. >> yeah. the target of the financial cyber attacks appear to be the banks themselves and not customers. >> i think they're going to dig
a hole in the backyard and put whatever money i have. that's frightening. "usa today," faa releasing a proposal on how to regulate small commercial drones. pilots without have to be 17 and of course i pass that, mika. they would have to pass an aeronautics test. that's not going to happen. they would have to be approved by the tsa. >> this is getting ridiculous. >> the drones can weigh no more than 55 pounds. have to stay below 500 feet. they couldn't travel any faster than 100 miles an hour. they can only be no enduring daylight hours with pilots maintaining constant visual contact with the device and hold faa flight certificate tickets and 60-day public comment period. amazon is punching back in the process of developing a drone delivery service which i think scares the hell out of most americans. says that this would hinder its plans and amazon said it is quote, prepared to deploy where we have the regulatory support
that we need. >> that's going to be tough. >> i don't want -- i don't want books falling from the sky. just let the postman bring it. >> i think we should be a little patient. actually you're being a little hypocritical because you love your amazon because it happens right away. >> but ups or whoever brings it to my door. >> yeah. okay. well, the drones would make it come to your door quicker. you will want that. >> i can wait a day. the "los angeles times," "fifty shades of grey" brought in $81.7 million at the box office. the highly anticipated movie based on the popular book stars dakota johnson and jamie dornan. universal pictures predicts it will pull in point$90.7 million over the long holiday weekend. >> i know mark halperin went to see it four times this weekend. >> he did, yeah, it was a marathon. >> nonstop. >>. coming up, isis spreads to a new country on at continent.
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dan anybody police are questioning two men who allegedly helped the gunman who murdered two people and separate attacks in copenhagen. joining us from the danish capital nbc news foreign correspondent keir simmons. keir, give us the very latest. >> mika i'm standing outside the cafe where the first attack happened. and you can count the bullet holes in the window. i count 27. there are reports more than 30 shots were fired inside they were having a discussion about free speech and blass so meepmeny. ended up in an exchange of fire sunday morning. he himself was shot dead. two people have been arrested. we think charged with -- in connection with it with helping
him. of course what tekt tives here now will be trying to figure out is exactly why he did this. in other words, was he perhaps inspired by those attacks on the "charlie hebdo" offices in parisparis and the subsequent attack or guided by others further away. that will be crucial. just over the road here, mika by the way, there are a set of flowers and on them are a sign saying not afraid. and that is the message they're trying to send out. we just saw the mayor of copenhagen meet with the mayor of paris. they embraced. they stood and said we will stand against this. tonight there will be a march here with that same message. but there is a sense of fear here in europe. there are a large number as we talked about before of foreign fighters coming back from syria and iraq. there's no indication that this man is one of those.
but we know that the intelligence and security services have been frankly struggling to manage the numbers of people coming back. and one of the questions with this is even if it is somebody a lone wolf as they described him who is inspired, how does the security and intelligence services deal with those people as well as the kinds of people who are coming back from those battlefields? >> all right. keir thank you very much. lots to get to here. joining us for the must read opinion pages ayman mohyeldin. i'm going to read from graham's piece in "the atlantic." it says so much and here we'll start with this. the islamic state follows a variety of islam whose beliefs about the pat to the day of judgment matter to its strategy and can help the west know its enemy and predict its behavior. its rise to power is less like the triumph of the muslim brotherhood in egypt, the group whose the leaders in schalk
state consider prostates. than david car resh or jim jones survived to wield absolute power over not just a few hundred people but some 8 million. muslims can reject the islamic state, nearly all do but pretending that it isn't actually a religious millenarian group with the theology that must be understood to be combatted has already led the united states to underestimate it and back foolish schemes to counter it. >> richard haass is nodding. again, i think this is going to be extraordinarily influential article because it's one of the first times we've had somebody a reporter look at this situation and say -- >> cut through it. >> -- again, these aren't just a bunch of sociopaths that just want to blow up i think so thisnd see beheadings on the internet. there is as twisted as it is, there is a religious component to this and understanding that
allows you to counter it. i think most importantly in the end, allows muslims that don't want their religion hijacked by this group to fight it. we're starting to see this. >> the irony too, is these people say exactly what they think. you can read what they say on twitter. you can read the official pronouncements of the islamic state and you can sit across from them at coffee houses in london or in melbourne as i did and find out exactly what they think by asking them. they're happy to talk about it. they will describe a very clear articulated vision of what they want the future to be. >> the future is they want the apocalypse. they believe they are the forerunners to the final days, to the fine inaugural great battle. >> they know step by step how it's going to happen. a particular place in syria where they expect crusader armies to go and they will vanquish them and eventually move on to rome which one person from the islamic state said actually is istanbul.
they believe they will move on to jerusalem and that is where the final showdown will take place. >> richard, you're nodding in agreement? >> yeah, that's why it's so important that the principle lead in this response be other muslims, in particular sunni muslims. what we're seeing in the middle east is not enough of that. what we seed nooed to see is a sunni response at every level, militarily intellectually. religious leaders need to delegitimatize it. we are not seeing the religious alternative to this. >> ayman, you've come on the show before and talked about how there have been religious leaders seen as extremely conservative themselves already coming out and condemning this. >> yeah. i mean if you look at the local level across the arab world you will see that mosques tend to be divided into two categories. some that offer sympathetic support but a lot of radicalization is happening online so it's not necessarily
coming out of religious institutions per se. one of the more prestigious younts are condemning it. it is not -- it's not going as viral, so to speak, as the ideology of isis which is spreading online. >> i'm not comparing -- i am not comparing religions here so i don't want to be torn to sledhreds online today. i will say to a lesser degree it doesn't malter what faith you are, a more fundamentalist a more stripped down, raw version, a more liberal reading of the scripture will be more likely to attract the broken the disillusioned, the out cast of society. and again, sometimes for better in this case for much worse. >> i think one of the important points that you are raising here is you have to be allow in
countries people to come in with hey, i think here's a different way of reading this text and put that idea to the table. that doesn't happen in a lot of muslim countries. you don't have the same kind of rigorous debate within the religion about these interpretations, how to shy away from certain texts, how to apply other texts. that doesn't happen because there's been a monopolynomonopoly on religion in many countries. unfortunately it's produced groups and extremist groups and ideology. >> unfortunately, mark halperin what this requires washington to do and western leaders to do is actually sew some subtlety. we have to do two things that seem to be in conflict but actually work together. the first thing we have to do is acknowledge what graham says. that this is about islam. this is a form of islam. that the president can't go on with his intellectually flabby approach to this and not pretend this doesn't have something to
do with islam. but then other side of it we have to do whatever we can to help the billion plus muslims across the planet fight this version of islam because if we see this sort of violence that we've seen in the united states against muslims in response to this, all we're doing is feeding in to what isis wants. >> it's still requiring a black and white language that sometimes the president doesn't like to use. instincts are correct which is why it is so important to have a multilateral coalition, as richard said on the ground. the best -- if you're looking for silver linings. jordan is engaged because they suffered the loss of their pilot. egypt is engage with air strikes. it needs to be a broad coalition. the president of the united states is a i thinksingular figure. up next, we continue this conversation with the story of two women who escaped the horrors of isis after being sold
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know where you stand with pnc total insight. a new investing and banking experience with personalized guidance and online tools. visit a branch, call or go online today. as we just saw with the executions of christians in libya isis often publicizes the brutal actions to stoke fear in civilians and motivate would be militants. but as nbc's richard engel reports there's another group of victims largely out of the public eye. but that does not mean the suffering is any less severe. >> reporter: the suffering of the yazidi people. images of men, women, and children reaching up for help food water, blankets dropped on the mountain by helicopters.
many of them american. but help didn't reach everyone. in the refugee camps of northern iraq we met survivors of the horror that went on in the village of kuchu. it's people seen here in better times couldn't reach the mountain so they were still in the village when isis arrived. >> translator: we didn't know how many were going to be killed said 19-year-old farida who didn't want her face shown. in fact, isis killed a most all of the men. they were grabbed by the hundreds sold off by isis fighters as the spoils of warm. isis is reviving the barbaric tradition of the slave trade proudly showing the fighters in the isis video discussing the yazidi women they're about to buy. we showed farida the video. she instantly recognized the men. i saw that one and this guy, she said, i don't know their names but i saw them.
she saw them lfingly inspecting more than 80 yazidi girls, picking out the ones they wanted. all of the girls were screaming and crying because they didn't want to go with them she says, so they beat the girls and dragged them away by force. farida was raped repeatedly for three months. they sold me from one man to the next, she says. the ordeal was even harder for the younger ones. they raped girls who were 9, 10 years old, or even 8, she says. she said the older ones know something about men while the younger ones know nothing. oadas one of the innocents that the isis fighters saut out. she's just 12. she didn't know what rape meant. only that she woke up bleeding. he was old, she says about the man who bought her. he was 50. somehow oada escaped but she's so badly traumatized that only now, three months later, is she able haltingly to even speak again. she and farida is being coaxed
back by this remarkable woman which a charity. the girls call her mom. their real mothers are still being held by isis. farida had never seen the video of the isis men. i see this she says and i think of all the girls they still have because they are doing everything imaginable to them. we just want justice. >> there are no words. a 50-year-old and 12-year-old. ism i'm sorry. there are a lot of words you can use. >> this is the side of the story that, i mean every part of it. i've been -- we've been talking about it off the air. there's no way to get into this story, get out of this story. it is as evil -- i don't know. it's not -- >> yeah and we talk about, again, the nature of the enemy
and understanding the enemy. there is just no way for us to understand 8-year-old girl 9-year-old girls being sold into sexual slavery and being raped. and that's just part of the story. another part of the story we saw yesterday with 21 people being beheaded. >> one of the most powerful important articles written in the last 20 30 years was sam's piece about the clash of civilizations and the idea of east versus west and the fault lines. what's so interesting about this story, this is the clash within a civilization. this is the fight for the future of these societies and these civilizations. we can play a helpful role but most is going to have to be fight within the civilization with every tool you can think of because of what you're up against. this is going to be a long struggle. >> it is going to be a long struggle but we can look at recent history to see how muslim populations have responded when
extremists who believe like al qaeda how you can go back to the bombing of luxor in egypt. i think it was in '97, '98. sal you can go to the 2005 bombing blowing up a wedding reception in jordan. a lot of people talk about the surge which was extraordinarily important. also paying off tribes people but they were ready after seeing the bombing in jordan and said that's enough. that's not who we want to be. and this is not who muslims across the world want to be either. >> we have to cover more of this and sanitize it less. we'll be right back. in my world, wall isn't a street. return on investment isn't the only return i'm looking forward to. for some every dollar is earned with sweat, sacrifice, courage. which is why usaa is honored to help our members with everything from investing for retirement to saving for college.
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has been going on for 40 years. >> do you mean this show right now has been going on for 40 years? because it really feels like it. >> yeah pretty much. >> about. >> yeah. right. >> about. >> how about more like -- >> try. >> okay. >> next question. yes, tina? >> no it's sarah. sarah palin. >> i'm sorry. yes. sorry. oh my god. of course. governor palin, welcome. >> just curious. jerry, how much do you think lauren mike yals would pay me if i were to run in 2016. >> run for president sarah, i don't think there's a number too big. >> okay. just hypothetically then. what if i were to choose donald trump as my running mate. >> sarah, you're teasing us. that's not nice. >> really? >> yeah mika mika she said she wanted to be here tonight just so she could see you in black tie. >> really? >> yeah. >> what do you think? >> i think you clean up pretty nicely. >> mika, brand new, the 30 is
brand new. something flew out of my mouth, stained the shirt immediately. i have a stain on my shirt. then i had to change into a tie to cover the stain. then somebody hugged me and stained my jacket. >> we actually saw him last year at the academy awards afterwards at a party and he came up to mika and he gets right in her face. there's something about flossing with him and dental hygiene and he gets one of those mints and he goes -- and he puts it right there. no, no he goes it's great. it's great. he was just talking about the -- he's got this dental hygiene obsession with you. >> fixation. i don't know. >> i don't understand it. >> so let's talk about really quickly, you're not so sure that it was a hit last night. what do you think? >> i would have actually liked more of the original stuff. i found so much of it didn't quite work as very short
remembrances, whatever you want to call them. >> yeah. >> didn't quite do it for me. >> mark halperin? >> 3 1/2 hours there was a lot of good stuff. jane curtain, weekend update desk was great. >> yeah. >> and paul simon was great. steve martin was great. there was a lot of great stuff. >> there was a lot of great stuff. you're not going to have all winners. >> there were a lot of things that brought a smile to my face. i thought though one of the key moments was when chris rock came out and told the truth. i mean the history of snl. there wouldn't have been the show last night had eddie murphy not come along. it saved it at a time where it was taking on water and was about to sink. and eddie murphy himself just -- sglup b >> unbelievable. >> as chris rock said, he hosted saturday night live when he was a cast member of saturday night live. he was that great. >> captured the spirit of the show i think. >> joe piscopo saying last night, doing sinatra, they
covered a lot of ground last night. still ahead, much more on the attacks on copenhagen. we're going to speak to an eyewitness to the first shooting and the israeli ambassador to denmark will be our guest as well. plus, the major development in the fight against isis. the terror group now spreading its horrors to yet another country. >> graham thanks for being with us. your article in "the atlantic" is the must read. greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. meet the world's newest energy superpower. surprised? in fact, america is now the world's number one natural gas producer... and we could soon become number one in oil. because hydraulic fracturing technology is safely recovering lots more oil and natural gas. supporting millions of new jobs. billions in tax revenue... and a new century of american energy security. the new energy superpower? it's red, white and blue. log on to learn more.
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we are learning more and more from a -- on a day-to-day basis but someone dane born and bread in denmark, similar to what i think -- what we saw in boston. of course, you don't want to make comparisons right now. but the enemy and it's not to over simplify it. the enemy is radicalization. the enemy is extremism. we do have fight that through a variety of different forces and sources. >> that was the u.s. ambassador to denmark speaking on "morning joe" just a few minutes ago. mark halperin, richard haass still with us. joining the conversation issed the or of "the new yorker" david remnick. good to have you onboard this morning. do you want to start with denmark or -- >> no, it's go to isis. >> the horrifying new video released by the islamic state and the military response it has provoked. isis released a video on sunday purportedly showing the beheadings of 21 egyptian christians in libya.
the video shows a line of men in orange jump suits being led down a beach, forced to their knees and then beheaded. the egyptian government has declared the video authentic. and in a sunday night address egypt's president vowed his country would avenge the killings. earlier this morning in less than 12 hours than the release of the video the egyptian military announced it had carried out air strikes in libya in retaliation, killing up to 50 militants. it is the first time egypt has publicly acknowledged military action in neighboring libya. meanwhile, a white house statement condemned the quote despicable murdered and, quote, only further galvanizing the international community to unite against isil. >> this happened of course david remnick, in libya. there is an article in your 90th anniversary edition, congratulations on that called "the unraveling," talking about
what we left behind in gadhafi's libya. >> john lee anderson who is an intrepid foreign correspondent went to libya which is extremely hard to the now and it's extremely hard because everything is collapsed. this is a failed state. we refer to this as a great foreign policy success sometimes in the very quick rhetoric of the american discussion but let's review what happened. the united states is part of a coalition, rescued people in benghazi rescued people in benghazind gadhafi's government and gadhafi himself quickly collapsed thereafter. which seems like a form of success. but what's been left behind there is absolute chaos and day-to-day violence and killing. there's no controlling government there. it is a highway to hell. so it really poses the dilemma of what the united states should do in this terrible landscape of
conflict and cruelty. >> richard haass, as you hear david talk about the state of libya, perfect ripe situation for isis to step innd and recruit. that's exactly -- >> absolutely. >> -- perfect recipe for this. >> there's a vacuum there. they're essentially filling it. i'm not as persuaded that david that we had to go in and i opposed it at the time. i don't think it was a strong case because the need for follow-up, i knew we were not going to be -- >> at the same time we had been wanting gadhafi out of libya for years. so we get our wish with saddam hussein. we get our wish with gadhafi in part in syria. and look what it leaves. it leaves a terrible void. it seems that you have one president that did too much. one president that a lot of foreign policy experts believe is not doing enough. and together it is created a perfect recipe for isis. >> but in libya, i would argue
that barack obama first did too much by going in there and then not enough by not following it up. what did gadhafi do? he got rid of his nuclear weapons. what is the lesson people say. you get rid of nuclear weapons, suddenly you make yourself vulnerable for external intervention? >> david remnick, who would believe that we would be looking back at saddam hussein and moammar gadhafi -- >> as pillars of stability. that's a horrible tragedy. >> the assad family as actually pillars of stability in a region now that is -- >> that's not what they are. they're pillars of absolute authoritarian and cruelty. >> cruelty. >> their record of killing, as richard will agree, is in the thousands and thousands, and we all know that saddam hussein was guilty of as well as gadhafi. >> right. >> but what i was trying to suggest is not being pro or ante this but rather the terrible number of choices that we have to face. and here i groo we richard.
what the second walk war proved beyond any doubt is that the united states cannot blunder into the middle east with its hundreds of thousands of troops and expect a positive outcome. all on its own. and any more than in libya where restraint was really the order of the day. trying to do something limited to rescue a population in benghazi. that didn't work out. i was raeshtly in the middle east and had a conversation with a former prime minister there who said that this is going to go on for decades. in other words, the complex of problems, shia and sunni, one state against the other, authoritarian and military regimes, the urge for democracy, all these things to say nothing of the western involvement and its legacy this is not something that with a snap of a fingers, you know western capitalists -- >> this is the new 30 years war. >> mark halperin we blundered our way in we blundered our way
out. >> same question about leaving. >> we blundered our way out. bush blundered his way in. barack obama blundered his way out. what did we have yesterday on" meet the press," democratic senator chak reid sayjack reed saying all of our problems came from 2003 and we had john mccain the republican chairman, saying all of our problems came from 20112 when we left. >> there are not a lot of success stories in the region. >> there haven't been for decades. >> we haven't even talked about pakistan and about north korea and about iran which are, you know, exostential threats. a lot of problems with them being assaulted and killed but there are lots of problems. the president has the balance of his term to try to get us on a better path. >> "the new york times" also pointing out to add to this conversation, that isis is expanding beyond strongholds in iraq and syria.
according to one top counter terror official the terror group is, quote, beginning to assemble a growing international footprint that includes affiliates in afghanistan, algeria, egypt, libya. there are also less formal pledges of support by fighters in jordan lebanon, saudi arabia tunisia, and yemen. >> it's key because that is the country that controls the two holiest shrines of islam. it's also the world's most significant oil producer. that will be sooner or later a battlefield both over the internet and on the ground for the future of the islamic world. >> i read an article over the weekend suggest that the new king is going to be far more aggressive against isis and radicalism. we saw what happened in egypt last night. we see what's happening in uae, jordan. we'll see if the sunnitsunami sunni world rises against isis because shias fighting sunnis is not a way out of this. now we turn to the second
terrorist attack in a european capital in just over a month. the swift spread of terror across europe landed in copenhagen on saturday when a danish born attacker took the lives of two people and wounded five others before being killed by police. the suspected gunman first opened fire saturday at a free speech seminar taking place at a cafe. authorities say the target may have been one of the event's organizers, a swedish artist who had published cartoons of the prophet mohammed in the past. the attacker left more than 20 bullet holes in the front window killing one person and injuring three police officers. the artist was unharmed but has been the target of several threats since 2007 when he drew the prophet mohammed's head on a dog's body. al qaeda had even offered a bounty for his murder. nine offer hours after that shooting the gunman killed a security guard protecting a ba
mitzva celebration outside a synagogue synagogue. in the wake of the attack, israeli prime minister bejamin netanyahu called for a, quote, massive immigration of european jews to israel saying, quote, this wave of attacks is expected to continue. we say to our jewish brothers and sisters, israel is your home. on sunday officials said hundreds of graves were desecrated at a jewish cemetery in france in the after mat one person called it a field of ruins. and yesterday a planned entertainment event for the jewish community was scrubbed in sweden out of security concerns. meanwhile, here's what we know about the slain suspect in denmark. he was danish born 22 years old and had a violent and criminal past. danish authorities say it may have been inspired by the islamic state and also by the january 7th attack on the french satirical newspaper "charlie hebdo" in paris. however, there is no indication
he had traveled to syria or iraq or had any connection to the two french-born brothers who carried out that attack. the copenhagen police have for now released a statement saying they arrested two more suspects on sunday who they believe helped the attacker in connection with the shootings. joining us on the phone from copenhagen swedish cartoonist lars vilks hosting the free speech event where the saturday shooting occurred. lars, you seem confident that you were indeed the target of the attack. when did you know this was trouble and this was focused on you? >> i would just like to correct that i'm not a cartoonist. actually i've never done a cartoon in my whole life. i'm an artist who make drawings and paintings. . that's important. and in copenhagen, you know we have this seminar about art and
freedom of speech. we have several of these seminars. they are normally very calm things and more specialized audience, interest in art and culture. you know we've been to this place many times. what happened that day was, we were surprised. unbelievable. when things happen it takes a few moments before you understand that this is real this is real. people are shooting. i mean that's a strange experience. >> you're with the focus, of course, of a failed assassination plot before. this obviously though the worst. how long have you been under police protection? >> about since 2010. >> 2010. and this by far obviously the worst attack.
take us through the moments after the shooting. you said something that i thought was chilling. you talked about the police being overwhelmed by firepower. and it was almost as if they were shooting toy guns back at the assailant. >> yeah, i mean there was really a gunfight because this is a new thing we have concerning terrorists. we have had amateurs. actually very many bad amateurs. not being able to carry out. not dangerous because they were so amateurist. but this was an occasion which took the police by surprise because this guy, he was better equipped than the police. so he had an advantage. so when he started shooting the police had really nothing to go back with because the shooting shooting -- these handguns the
police had were not very efficient in that firing. so i mean they were really surprised. so he took -- it took some time before the police could actually start firing back. >> mr. vilks, the first part of the evening, the shooting into the meeting where you were at was an attack on clearly on free expression. the second part reflected a kind of antisemitic rage. we've heard a lot about what's going on in france which is the third biggest jewish population in the world. maybe you could tell you a little bit about the situation where -- about antisemitism in a place like copenhagen in denmark. we don't know much about it. >> it's been discussed vaguely. there is a problem that survive, making the question is very
controversial because -- extreme right right. now we have also seen that there are many -- many muslims and arabs that actually carry these things out and then they become very dangerous. i mean we have seen several incidents of that. that's a new thing. it stirs things up because of the immigration situation. this question has escalated when we have seen these done in paris and copenhagen. >> mark halperin? >> i want to ask you a question i asked the u.s. ambassador to your country a little while ago. >> he's from sweden. he's a swedish artist. >> sorry. >> what do you think -- who do you think the enemy is here? >> the enemy --
>> plrks vimr. lilks, are you there? >> i'm here. >> how would you define who the enemy is? >> my enemy. >> the people who carried out the attacks, how would you define who they are? >> that's people that is not integrated into society. we have seen examples here of criminal -- they are quite young and probably they are searching for some kind of identity. we have to remember that the whole society today is about identity m and that's also the thing for these people. and they find this very simple solution the glorious few, carry out a tremendous deed and goes all of the way to paradise.
that's the sort of solution to certain parts of the non-integrated society. >> lars vilks, thank you very much for joining us. >> greatly appreciate you calling in sir. still ahead on "morning joe," much more on the copenhagen terror attacks as they come under fire by terrorists in just over a month. plus, the boston area gets hit with another massive snowstorm as people there are coping with an historic winter.
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don't listen to the naysayer. switch to comcast business today and get 50 megabits per second for $89.95. comcast business. built for business. right now 33 million people in the midwest and south are under winter storm warnings and advisories. this has been a brutal winter for parts of the country. weather is already believed to have caused this 35-car pile-up in chicago yesterday morning. and now this new storm system is
expected to bring up to eight i rememberes of snow ice, and freezing rain. the preparations are happening as new england does its best to dig out after a separate storm system dumped up to two feet of snow this weekend. residents in kennebunk, maine, is up against what you're looking at here. snow piled so high it covers everything mailboxes, signs, cars. in new hampshire the weight of the snow caused a roof of a carpet store to collapse and many more on the way, reducing the building there that you see to rubble. meanwhile, boston's mayor is asking everyone to stay off the streets because of strong winds and bitterly cold temperatures. boston is now under historic stoet total of seven feet of snow. they have absolutely nowhere to put it. >> nowhere to put it. >> it's been a brutal brutal winter. >> more to come. back now to the other stories, the terror attacks in denmark, with us now from cape
enhagan, denmark's deputy prime minister. thank you for being on the show this morning. how is the community reacting there now 24 hours later? >> well, it has been a travesty of tragic weekend in copenhagen. i visited a jew wish synagogue yesterday and now here back at the scene where it all started. i think there is a skensense of collective calm where we're standing tall and standing together because we love our society and want to stay open and have a place where you can meet and debate freely do your religious rituals freely. therefore there is today a sense of unitedness in denmark. >> there was the remarkable story coming out of this tragedy that even after the shooting the people that were at this free speech session, this free speech celebration, continued. >> yeah.
i mean amazing in the sense that they were in the middle of an unbelievable turmoil and then they continued. and i think everywhere we're seeing signs of the danish people rising against this evil that we've experienced. today we have such gratitude towards law enforcement community who very speededly got ahold of the perpetrator who is now deceased and today on the internet there is a smile back campaign to the law enforcement community because they've done such a tremendous job of restoring safety in copenhagen and in denmark in general. >> richard haass, the president of council and foreign relations is with us and has a question for you. >> prime minister, how is it that you believe you can balance the need to maintain an open democratic soertciety yet also maintain security for your people? how do you try to go about that?
>> well, we already, after the tragic events in paris earlier this week started a full review of our safety system and our guard against terrorism. and we will of course be introducing new me showersure sures. we won't we want to safeguard the free speech while we keep our communities safe and that does mean we have to take new measures but it will under no circumstances mean that we will reduce our openness in a way we conduct ourselves in denmark. >> all right. >> thank you very much for coming on with us. >> greatly appreciate it sir. thank you for being with us. david remnick, what's so interesting about this when you look at the demographics of paris, obviously there had been friction between the muslim
communities on the outskirts of paris and suburbs of paris. that was the case in france and sweden. sweden is on the front line. 20% of their population now immigrants last year alone. i think 400,000 people came from syria. just a remarkable influx. that's not the case though here. >> no. >> in denmark. >> there was a terrific tv show that came out of denmark, the castle in copenhagen, the center of the government there and the joke of the show the kind of thing that undergirded it comically was that their politics were so -- compared to the united states or russia or france so innocent and the issues were so small and that was part of the charm of the show. and yet you see here that history, big history and tragedy invades every corner of the universe, in every corner of the world in a global time including the forces of real
hatred of antisemitism of antimadernity and now we're stuck with a series of choices and none of them are particularly good. >> choices? you talking about choices, joe. >> i'm talking about culturally. i'm glad you said choices because the deputy prime minister said something about how we're going the hold on to our values. but as the french are learning holding on to your values while also protecting jews sjews, while also protecting others that's a very -- they're very difficult decisions that are having to be made and actually being aggress aggressive. >> and none perfect. no such thing as absolute safety and unfortunately there's no such thing in a situation like this of absolute liberty. >> richard, i have been accusing europe at times of being on a vacation from history since 1991. they are not anymore. they're being ripped out sadly and tragically one by one by one. and it is interesting to see how
on a smaller level the french and now i suspect the danish are going to have to make smaller choices that we've been having to make here since sevenptember 11th. >> remember how brutal they were on us because of nsa spying. now all of the societies are going to have to deal with the difficult issue of what does the state do in order to monitor parts of their societies where bad things could be brewing. suddenly the vacation from history is going to be over and european governments are going to have to make very difficult choices. >> it's one thing to make the tough choices at home and balancing homeland security and it's another to international coalition and put troops on the ground. americans should not be only ones dying for this. >> how long can egypt, how long can jordan how long can the uae, how long can the french -- >> innately unstable regimes, as we know. >> unstable regimes, and since
1945 there has been a deal. the united states is going to take care of them militarily m and they pledge allegiance to us against the soviet union or now against terrorism. but now that we need them to fight alongside with us so we're not the world's policemen, they're not there. >> make the same bargain we've been making for decades. go back to the square. democracy seems to be going out on the streets of cairo. now look where we are in egyptian politics. we're basically, basically the countries of the west and elsewhere are relying on regimes like the military regime that's come back full force in cairo to exert some degree of stability. to say nothing of its own self preservation. the choices are really ugly. >> exactly right. also there's limits to what we can do because so many threats are now internal rather than external. it's not the sort of thing that
plays to our strength. >> no. >> we have a presidential election coming up and you can be darn sure that this is not going to be at the center of the debate on a daily basis. that's a tragedy but it's got to be at the center of that debate because united states policy can't be the only element in this ongoing conflict that's going to go on for years but it's an important one. it's incredibly complex and to kiss it off with rubrics and then say that's not really the center of the presidential debate is a -- would be a tragedy. >> if the economy keeps getting better i bet it's at the center of the election. >> i hope so. moving on now, the israeli ambassador to denmark joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." (lowe) hi. i'm rob lowe. and i have directv. (hs lowe) and i'm peaked in high school rob lowe. and i have cable. (lowe) directv is wireless, so you can put your tvs anywhere without having to look at those ugly wires and boxes in every room.
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there is something about the sweet meditative glow of a loading website. don't listen to the naysayer. switch to comcast business today and get 50 megabits per second for $89.95. comcast business. built for business. joining us from copenhagen is the israeli ambassador to denmark and here onset former british royal air force officer and foreign affairs correspondent mikey kay. good to have you both. >> mr. ambassador tell us the situation for jews and denmark and whether some may listen to bejamin netanyahu and move to
israel israel. >> the jews in denmark have been emancipated 200 years ago. i'm sure everyone is listening to the israeli prime minister very carefully. he is the prime minister of the jewish state. what he says should be listened to with good care. >> are israelis choosing to looefd and how is the embassy coping with this? >> well, the embassy is always coping with the situation as it is. we are -- we have a lot of protection of course. we enjoy cooperation with the danish government. i want to take this opportunity to thank our host in denmark for the care that they're taking of us. we also feel a part of the jewish community here. we grieve with them today who lost one of their own, who is also one of us who gave his life in protection of the community. he prevented a large-scale
catastrophe and tragedy at a bar mitzvah party but he paid with his life and we grieve with his family. we knew him personally. we know his family personally. and we're aching with all of them today. >> mr. ambassador, how safe are jews in europe? >> it's not a question of safety. it's a question of atmosphere. jews are not safe when they are attacked. jews are not safe when they are attacked in belgium or copenhagen but it's the atmos atmosphere atmosphere. but what we saw a couple days ago is a pattern which is malignant and should not be admitted. it's like what happened in paris. first you attack the "charlie hebdo." then you go to the kosher supermarket. first you attack a free speech. event here and then you go for
the jewish synagogue. this is something bad that's happening here and it should be stopped. it should be -- an end should be put to this immediately. >> trying to understand the underpinnings of prime minister bejamin netanyahu is calling for. does the prime minister not think that jews in denmark or jews in france can be safe? does he not wish there to be thriving jewish communities around europe? >> i see no contradiction. should -- jews should be safe wherever they are. those who live in france or in copenhagen or in london or in new york should be safe should feel secure, should be protected. but israel is the homeland of the jewish people. israel is the jewish country. israel is the jewish nation state. and jews are very welcome to come to israel whenever they want, wherever they wish to. and we are very happy to have everyern p, every member of the
jewish people living with us. but for as long as they live in the country where's they do live they have to be protected, they have to be defended and i see no contradiction in that respect. >> this is david remnick, also from the set in new york. i'm wondering, the residence of what prime minister bejamin netanyahu said is that there's somehow on existential crisis. is there a suggestion that there's such a colossal threat to jews in europe now? is that what's behind the prime minister's words? >> i don't know. you have to ask the prime minister about that. all i can say is that jews should be -- jews should feel safe and protected wherever they are. there is an atmosphere right now
in the continent against the jews. i wouldn't go to a historical comparisons of any sort. what happened in the '30s happened in the '30s. what happens now happens now. but now there is a state of israel to which jew can look for and to which jews can go if they feel that it want to or if they feel they have to. but for as long as they live where they are they must be protected, they must be defended. >> mr. ambassador antisemitism obviously has been on the rise in europe for quite some time now and unfortunately it appears to be -- it appears to be growing by the day. we thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. let's bring in mike si kay kay. he just said that europe is waking up to history. they are going to have to start making some of the very difficult choices that the
united states and great britain have had to make over the past decade. >> yeah just going back to a what the ambassador was saying. i think the statistics are illuminating when you look at the amount of jews in europe in 1939, 9.5 million. in 2010 the last collected data, down to 1.4. huge exodus of jews coming out of europe. we need to take a holistic approach to this. it's not just about the jews. we saw the coptic christians slaughtered on a tripoli beach. it's not just about christian, jus, about pretty much anyone who doesn't buy into this cult. >> by the way, let's just say, especially muslims that don't buy into this. >> absolutely. denmark is really an interesting case study because if you look at -- we can look at the prevention or the cure of how radicalization is occurring at the moment. in terms of the cure danish
have taken a more rehabilitation response rather than actually imprisonment. and that's really interesting because our host the second largest city in denmark, that has a very -- it's got a prominent mosque. it's known that mosque is responsible for radicalizing 23 of the dapish jihadists known to travel to syria so far. the spokesman for that mosque actually supported -- came out and said he supported isis. he's on the u.s. foreign terror list and is hiding in scandinavia. we've got the bombs, bullets, mortars approach led by the u.s. in terms of air strikes at the moment and understanding of how you diffuse the air with ground forces. but we've got to look at how you tackle radicalization from within. the disenfranchisement process. that's the thing in which denmark is teasing out at the moment. >> mika the "wall street journal" editorial board wrote
yesterday about europe's new terrorist normal nape talked about what the french are doing. the danish look at france "charlie hebdo" supermarket, the french government is ramped up counter terror powers isolating jihadists in prison giving security forces broader authority to monitor terror suspects online and boosting staff and funding at intelligence agencies and those, again, the difficult choices that david and mark and all of us have been talking about that they're now having to make. >> still ahead, we're going to be joined by the editor of a dan danish newspaper known for publicing of 12 cartoons of the prophet mohammed in 2005. we're going to ask questions about that. tough ones. we'll also go live to dylan dreyer in boston. boston is digging out from. seven feet of snow this morning if that's possible.
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. boston's mayor is asking everyone to stay off the streets today because of strong winds and bitterly cold temperatures. right now hundreds of national guardsmen are helping the city dig out from an historic seven feet of snow over the last three weeks. please tell us there's not more coming. nbc's dylan dreyer joins us live from boston. what's the latest? >> well, the latest is right now, it is exceptionally cold. this time yesterday we were standing out in whiteout conditions. that was the fourth major snowstorm. we're talking more than a foot of snow in just three weeks. there's just an incredible amount of snow. just regular objects, benches, garbage cans everything is covered in snow. it's not like it was pushed
here. this is just what's falling from the sky. and now this is the classic situation of i'm going to stand out in the cold to tell you do not go out in the cold. maybe you can just tell by the look on my face, the tears rolling down my eyes that you don't really need to be outside today. anyone across the northeast to the great lakes down into the mid atlantic we've got windchills about 15 to 30 degrees below zero. you need to cover up. before i came on i did one of these to protect your face from the wind. that's what's making it so cold. you can get frostbite in 30 minutes or less. unfortunately that storm moving through the southern plains and making its way towards the carolinas is going to clip new england. we could see another three to four inches of snow. as we go into tomorrow it's not a lot compared to how bad this winter has been. but any more snow people are going to start losing their minds at this point, mika. >> nbc's dylan dreyer thank you very much. thank you. tough assignment. try and stay warm. all right. we're going to go back to our other headlines this morning.
joining us live from copenhagen the foreign editor of danish newspaper "fleming rose." the paper is known for publishing 12 cartoons of the profit fed mohammed in 2005. mr. rose is also the author of the book "the tyranny of silence." really good to have you on. thank you very much. i'm sorry about this circumstances. let me just go there. given the topic of their book, there are clearly in our society here, there are words we don't say because we know the emotions that they stir and the dangers that they cause. should there not be cartoons that we don't draw? >> no i don't think so. i mean a cartoon is a very civilized and peaceful way to react to intimidation and violence. i cannot think of any more, you know peaceful and civilized way to counter violence and intimidation. m and if you go back and look at
the cartoons we published in 2005 they are, in fact quite nocuous and innocent. one of the reasons why they have, you know have this kind of affect is because of newspapers decided to republish them and thereby send a message that these cartoons are so awful and they are so bad and offensive that nobody can look at them. and i was asked that back in 2005 and people finally had a look at them and said oh, it's just that? >> except nocuous and innocent certainly could be words that you use to describe them except you know that others don't feel that way. so how do you make that decision and have such a one-sided view and what are the concerns that go through your mind before you publish a cartoon that you know that you know is not inknock nocuous
and not innocent and being insulted by them? >> exactly. that's one of the reasons why i decided to write a book and reflect upon this buzzecause i was really surprised. i think, you know it's very important that we in a liberal democracy re-establish a clear distinction between words and deeds between images and actions. and that we understand that the prize for living in a democracy and enjoying all the benefits of democracy is that there are other people who from time to time may publish or say things that we find offensive. but in a democracy you have many rights, you have the right to freedom of expression, to freedom of religion to freedom of assembly, you have the right to vote for different parties, movement, the only right you should not have in a democracy is a right to the to be offended. we have to grow had to grow thicker skins in a
world where we are getting more and more diverse in terms of what we find offensive and what we find innocuous. >> let me bring in david, and believe in the right to publish and the right to say things. >> you need to know how flemming lives his life and the newspaper. under armed guard all the time, and under the threat of violence all the time. when "the new yorker" publishing a famous cover live the famous fist pump of michelle obama and -- never death threats. howling, argument i went on cnn once and wolf blitzer said this could have been on the cover of a nazi magazine a ridiculous thing to say but as bad as it got. argument. what you have is a gulf of
culture, a real difficulty are bridging it and did you go too far, too far enough? what are you trying to say? these are complicated, complicated decisions. what flemming is trying to say and says so eloquently in this sbook book is that the price of your editorial daring cannot must not be violence. this is outrageous and this just can't be explained away as an editorial difference. >> flemming rose, would you agree with that? >> absolutely. and i think -- i think, you know, what i see now is that -- that the -- the mechanisms of a fierce society is beginning to show its face in the midst of our liberal democracies. david and i have an experience from the soviet union, and that was a fear society, where only a
very small minority had the courage to speak out against the powers to be and even though we live in a democracy, we have the right to speak and say you know almost whatever we want and we have the protection of the state. nevertheless, we start to see mechanism of a fear society show itself, that editors and journalists, they do not make decisions based on editorial judgment, and we can have different opinions on that but they make editorial decisions based on you know am i afraid of saying this because what might happen to me if i do it? >> flemming rose thank you very much. still ahead, "saturday night live" may have celebrated 40 years last night but "the new yorker" has 50 more on them. david remnick will take us through the 90 years of his magazine, and we'll continue this conversation as well. we'll be right back.
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still ahead a live update from copenhagen as officials are still learning more details about these most recent terror attacks. and the new atrocity from isis. the terror group has spread now to a new country on a new continent. and we're also going to have a debate about whether those cartoons that are so offensive should have been published in the first place, or if they knew what was coming. the conversation continues here on the set.
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well it has been a travesty of a tragic weekend in copenhagen but i visited a synagogue and now am back where it all started. a feeling of calm and we love our society and want to stay open and have a place where you can meet and debate freely do your religious rituals freely and, therefore, there is today i
think a sense of unitedness in denmark. >> the prime minister of denmark, morton ostergaard with us a few moments ago. welcome back, david hil prynnealperin, and others still with us. >> you said i can't say it on the air, which made me say we've now got to say it on the air. that's how it works here. when somebody says i just can't say it it wouldn't be politically correct or right, that's when, of course you were compelled to tell everybody what you were thinking off the air i. have tremendous respect for the editor we had on not pushing back on anything he's said. he's written a book on the issue, but i think the unspoken thing here there are things that we don't say. there are things that we don't publish, and we know we are free to do so but we know what we would incite if we did. david remnick, you deal with
this every day. you know what i'm talking about and i know the obvious argument against this is nobody who was victimized in any way over the past weekend deserved this kushcurb what you do in terrorism, but there are things we don't do. where do these cartoons we've covereded "charlie hebdo" attacked. some clearly do incite violence don't they? >> in the rearview mirror obviously. >> in the rearview mirror? >> i don't think they were drawn to incite -- >> of course not. >> and in 2007 the artist from sweden we had on earlier drew the prophet muhammad's head on a dog. >> yeah. >> now he knew. copenhagen knew. that was going to incite violence. "charlie hebdo" knew that was going to incite violence. >> i don't know that they did. i knew it would incite powerful
feelings. >> deep emotions -- >> hang on. all cartoonist operating, art, barry blitz for us people around the know now they're out to incite a reaction a reaction. a political reaction. >> right. >> a debate a discussion. even some sense of outrage. jon stewart is out to incite -- not just laughter but some sense of truth-telling and outrage and he might for some people go too for. >> no. but jon stewart would not put an image of muhammad on the "daily show" attached to a dog's head. >> well, look -- "the new yorker." >> nor would "the new yorker." >> the "new yorker" did not publish these, we publish our own images but i defend ferociously on the right of free-thinking. >> of course. do you think we're not. >> no i say, of course. of course you have the right to do it. >> right. >> the question for us and the
bigger debate -- >> but you don't have the right to act -- you have a right to act like an adult -- i'm not speaking of you -- act like an adult and make choices that don't bring about a predictable violent reaction. i'm sorry. let david finish and then we'll go to you, mike. >> i'm not sure how predictable it was in realtime and i also think the onus is on the people reacting and reacting violently. >> of course. >> in the '60s, all kinds of outrageous cartoons and images were printed in the alternative press. all kinds of images. stuff you wouldn't necessarily discuss in every detail on the air here. full of them. >> but this changed in -- >> the tradition of american cartooning, about bill clinton in his time of troubles. i mean how many images sexualized images were there mocking him? >> but cartoons of let's say, jesus, even on a cross -- >> and there have been. >> the crucifix doesn't bring
about violent reactions. we knew starting in 2005 that cartoons of the prophet muhammad would bring about violent reactions. >> well i think the complexity of this is how do you measure a violent reaction? how do you anticipate what is going to incite hatred or violence? and it goes back to this balance between freedom of speech freedom of press, versus the anticipated reaction and consequence to that. and i think that's a balance we have to kind of readdress. if you look at this right-wing party that is forming out of dresden, one of its stances is that the muslims can not, in the way that they operate, cannot fit into the democratic values that the west upholds, and so we've got to make a decision on what balances it do we strive in order to embrace muslims now living in europe and in america? and the values that they hold versus the values that we've held for hundreds of years?
and there's a compromise to be had on that it's not a copout saying we're drawing conclusions, we're just having a conversation, and it is a conversation that western civilization is going have but the question is what is gained by drawing a cartoon of the prophet muhammad its head on a dog or the prophet muhammad and, in a sexually suggestive position? or for that case let's take to christianity, jesus on a cross -- what's gained by that? >> well it depends on the cartoon. depends on the image. look, the "new yorker" got in hot water 25 years ago, art spiegel did a cover coincided with tax day and easter and the bunny was crucified against his 1040. some thought it was successful, funny, some people not. art spiegelman lived on and the worst thing that happened the "new yorker" received letters of complaint. the difficulty, as you suggest, it's a question of a terrible
culture clash, especially with the extreme end. a lot of muslim friends of mine moderate and even liberal also raised the same question. does this have to be? they're feeling the same clash within themselves of the values and the laws of these societies, and also the impulse and the feeling about what you do or do not do to the image of muhammad. >> it's too cavalier to say we're for the freedom of expression right now. >> it's too cavalier. let's put it this way, in "the new yorker," are there cartoons you would publish and cartoons you would not publish? >> sure. >> that's all i'm saying. >> but that's my choice. >> it is your choice but there may be reasons why you wouldn't publish that, involve wladd what we're talking about here and the dangers. >> mika pointed out. you're certainly suggesting that everybody has a right. you've said that everybody has a right to publish these. this is more about a responsibility. >> yes. >> who do you put in danger just to --
>> have the right? >> have the right to do this and say, i'm an artist and i'm now going to draw the prophet muhammad in the most offensive light possible? >> roosevelt put himself in danger, that has to be acknowledged as well. >> sure. i don't say that in an advisory way in a way of saying he has enormous courage. >> and the sake with lars vilks, lived in fear of death for years now. we're not being cavalier about that. they made the decisions they made. >> who is the enemy? people alienated from the society and don't fit in. part of why they're alienated is because they're people who are drawing things that define -- >> exactly. very good point. very good point. >> i mi think, mikey, it also is fascinated that lars vilks himself cannot bring himself to identifying by name the islamic extremists or radicals, or
whatever the politically correct term might be this week in 2015 even himself, well, young, they're young some have criminal pasts. he was being politically correct about a title when he's so -- when he's the opposite with the cartoons that he draws. >> the art. >> or the art he produces. >> the facts are this is a cult that has a radical and a sick interpretation of a book called the koran. they're the hard-line facts. what it's based upon. the thing that really irritates people when in the west talking about may compromises these values that we uphold is if you go to saudi arabia go and stand in the middle of the center city center in rehaud or qatar and suggest the compromise of maybe values that the islam faith upholds to sort of bridge the gap between western values
and those values what would the reaction be? and i think what irritates and gets peoples backs up in this country, in the west, there would likely be no compromise whatsoever. that's the interesting jux nation juxtaposition we should look at. >> and gratuitous what appears to be gratuitous cartoons to myself and i would guess well over a billion muslims worldwide, that does not seem to be a battle worth having in the clash of civilizations. how women are treated, whether 85% in pakistan and afghanistan and iraq believe that a woman committing a adultery should be stoned to death, whether 75% according to a pew poll of people in pakistan and afghanistan and maybe iraq -- i can't remember the exact number -- believe that somebody converting to christianity or judaism from islam should be
executed? those -- >> fair enough but the history. >> -- battles -- >> the history of expression is filled with examples of writers and artists who go quote/unquote, too far, and now that it's all -- >> i understand, but -- >> hold on joe. but now that it's in the past it's all canonized and in our schoolbooks and we read about orwell and swift and all of those people that seemed very tame, but in realtime, people died for that and david remnick, orwell or swift, to a dog, dog's body and the prophet muhammad's head on that dog's body -- >> all i'm suggesting there were american cartoonists. >> right. >> who have caused real outrage in the 19th century, thomas nesk was considered outrageous for what he was doing. >> so my question is and i'll ask it again, what is gained? what is gained by these cartoons
that -- you know because in law, when you introduce evidence to the court, a lot of times you have to -- you have to weigh the evidentiary value with a prejudicial effect. >> but they're not in court. >> i know they're not in court. >> they're being murdered. >> but you make this balance every week with what you put in here and i am asking you. we know the prejudicial effect. it has turned a continent upside-down. >> i don't think cartoons have turned a continent upside-down i really don't and i think what the cartoonists are trying to say, without saying i'm publishing them -- there's a distinction here -- what they're trying to do through these images is to mock and undermine the incredible power of ideology of fundamentalism, of radicalism, and fundamentalism, by the way, in all faiths that's offensive. >> why is this reaction different? is it the muslim faith?
is it -- >> this is the difficulty. >> christianity we christians have put up with crucifixes and offensive things being said on television about jesus for -- i don't know. >> this is where president obama ran into trouble in his speech. >> -- 30 years. >> trying to draw a historical parallel of hundreds of years ago about violence fundamentalism raz scaledicalism and all the west. wasn't trying to dismiss. but in historical terms this has happened elsewhere in the world and in another time and then got attacked for it for expressing a simple historic truth. >> so mikey and mark halperin and mika let me ask this question -- is it okay for me to believe that these are gratuitous? >> sure. >> and that we should be more sensitive to our muslim brothers and sisters across the world, and understand that with the
balance of swivelizationcivilization, and with the base isis getting a nuclear bomb or dirty bomb that we work more aggressively to show our muslim brothers and sisters worldwide that we too, don't understand why you put pictures of dogs and the prophet muhammad's head together? >> we're in a constant state of evolution and the world we live in today is not the world we lived in 100 years ago, but the values that we look back on we're trying to sort of maintain throughout. i think the interesting conversation about extremism and fundamentalism and terrorism, people say, it's existed hundreds of years, i adegree with that but what's different now is that terrorism and fundamentalism in the context of globalization, that didn't exist 50 years ago. the ability to get on a jet in new york and travel to syria within a day didn't exist. the ability to travel through europe as quickly as we can didn't exist. the ability to spread
information, propaganda on internet doesn't exist. therefore, we now live in kind of a new world order. so the question is given that broader global context with technology and everything else do we now have to reappraise those fundamental values and conditions that we've been talking about that apply now versus 100 years ago? >> i think one thing that would help this conversation at this table, in my magazine in the "new york times," is a hell of a lot more of our muslim brothers and sisters included in that conversation. in those pages on those screens at tables like this and all of us are guilty of not making enough -- in the same way we have always, we try to and have come short of diversifying sufficiently, the voices at this table and our pages, in pages in general, we could do a better job of that with our -- >> and domestically politically also with evangelicals. it took many years for people in new york and washington to
figure out what was happening in national elections, because they just didn't have evangelicals around the table and did not understand how millions of americans thought. >> i think that's fair. >> and carben neutrality, how people live their lives. a clash of civilizations draws these kind of cartoons with the right to do that you need a responsibility in your own life to reach out, or an organization, and find people of different faiths so can you talk to and bring into. so they're not alienated. that's, to me -- you've got to be able to draw but can't just draw. >> it is interesting. >> i agree. >> bring up a good point. lars vilks was talking about, the alienation people felt what he drew may have been a part of that alienation from a civilization that has become in many muslims' eyes so liberalized that they -- mock and disrespect it. >> he has the right to do it
but -- >> look at the difference in france and the united states about the policy on a hajab. liberalism means the right to wear hijab to class. in france a totally different view of it. >> a drat point. because it's unthinkable for us to say -- >> the simulation is the highest ideal. multiculturalism, the idea here. let's not lump them all together as well. >> a great before. >> before we go "the new yorker," 90 years. have things changed? >> you don't look a day older. >> thanks so much! i feel-31. >> oh my lord. >> talk about the highlights. we've already, of course talked about the important article on libya. >> well, it's fantastic and one of the best profiles i've ever read of anybody. a profile of johnny ive and a
piece by zadie on norman peal enormously funny. we won three magazine awarts one for general elections but why a writer roger angel himself is older than the magazine. if that's what 90 looks like i'm a very happy man. >> you are a happy man. thank you so much for beings with us. >> pleasure. >> wonderful conversation. they're not cartoons, they are art. okay? do not call them cartoons. >> we call them drawings. >> something wrong with a cartoon? they're the greatest -- my lord. still ahead -- more of the headlines we've been talking about all day. the story of two women who escaped the horrors of isis after being sold to soldiers as the spoils of war. richard engel has this report ahead.
and winter severe boston under seven feet of snow and a phenomenon known at thunder snow. >> you can have your 500 million dollar jackpot in powerball, whatever the heck it was, but i'll take this baby. four -- four -- lightning strikes. four episodes -- i've been called a control freak... i like to think of myself as more of a control... enthusiast. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that's why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don't have to talk to any humans, unless i want to. and i don't. and national lets me choose any car in the aisle. control. it's so, what's the word?... sexy. go national. go like a pro. daughter: do you and mom still have money with that broker? dad: yeah, 20 something years now. thinking about what you want to do
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oh! again, again! that's a two-for. that's a two-for, baby. yes! yes! again! that's a three -- you got to be kidding me? you got to be kidding me? and there's another one. that's number -- you got to be kidding me. you can have your $500 million jackpot in powerball, whatever the heck it was, but i'll take this bak. four -- four -- lightning strikes. four episodes of lightning snow. >> i would take the $500 million, actually. but he's very excited. >> the weather channel's jim cantore's priceless reaction to a rare weather event in plymouth massachusetts. thunder snow. ever seen that? right now more than 33 million people in the midwest and south are under winter storm warnings and advisories. weather is already believed to have caused this 35-car pileup in chicago yesterday morning, and now this new storm system is expected the to bring up to eight inches of snow ice and
freezing rain. georgia's governor preemptively declared a state of emergency for the state's northern-most counties, and kentucky has activated the state's emergency operations center. the preparations are happening at new england does its best to dig out after a separate storm system dumped up to two feet of snow this weekend. this is what residents in kenny bunk, maine are up against. causing roofs to cave. this carpet store, the roof collapsed reducing the building to rubble. meanwhile, boston the mayor is asking everybody to stay off the streets today, because strong winds and bitterly cold temperatures. also help crews, which include hundreds of national guardsmen. boston is now under a historic total of seven feet of snow. >> it's awful. >> it's awful. it's unbelievable. >> it's just awful. >> yes. i can't -- i cannot believe how much snow there is.
>> do you believe how cold it was this weekend? >> you couldn't move. literally. >> yeah. it was like -- again, i was waiting for hans solo to come and save me. freezing. awful. and just gets worse and worse and worse. let's move on. one of the big stories we're covering today, snow totals and the morning papers ss has this. stolen up to $1 billion from 100 banks in 30 countries according to a russian security company, hackers gained access to the bank's computer systems through malware where they continued to monitor bank operations for months. the hackers then used the information to set up fake accounts and program atms to dispense money at precise times. >> wow. >> yeah. the target of the financial cyber attacks appear to be the banks themselves and not customers. >> dig a hole in the backyard and put whatever money i have. >> it's beginning to look like a good idea. >> very frightening. >> you used to joke. >> the "usa today," faa
releasing a much-anticipated proposal to regulate small commercial drones. pilots have to be at least 17 and of course i pass that. mika. >> uh-huh. >> pass an air aeronautics test. approved by the faa. >> never going to happen. >> and weigh no more than 55 pounds, stay below 500 feet. no can do. couldn't travel faster than 100 miles an hour own flown duing daylight hours, the pilot maintaining constant visual of the device and hold new faa flight sir kifcertificates. amazon already punching back. the company, in the process of developing this drone delivery service, which i think scare, the hell out of most americans, says this would hinder its plans and amazon says it's "prepared to deploy where we have the regulatory support we need." >> going to be tough. >> can you imagine? just -- i don't want -- i don't want books falling from the sky.
just let the postman bring it. >> i think we ought to be a little parable. actually, you're being a little hypocritical, because you love your amazon because it happens right away. >> u.p.s. or whoever brings it to my door. >> yeah okay. well the drone wosuld make it come to your door a lot quicker. >> i can wait a day. "los angeles times," "50 shades of grey" highest grossing film of any presidents' day weekend bringing in $81.7 million at the box office. the highly anticipated movie based on the popular book stars dakota johnson and jamie dornan. universal pictures predicts the film will pull in a total of $90.7 million oevlgver the long holiday weekend. >> a lot of money. mark halperin fwoent see it four times. >> yeah a "50 shades of grey" marathon marathon. >> nonstop. and keir simmons joins us with a live update. plus nba legend kareem
abdul-jabbar, our guest, wrote a piece after the paris attacks and his thoughts this morning on the terror waged in his religion's name. ♪ know your financial plan won't keep you up at night. know you have insights from top investment strategists to help set your mind at ease. know that planning for retirement can be the least of your worries. with the guidance of a pnc investments financial advisor, know you can get help staying on track for the future you've always wanted. [ aniston ] when people ask me what i'm wearing, i tell them aveeno®. [ female announcer ] aveeno® daily moisturizing lotion has active naturals® oat with five vital nutrients. [ aniston ] because beautiful skin goes with everything. aveeno®. naturally beautiful results™.
this is -- this is the gentleman, and we're learning more and more from the -- on a day-to-day basis that this is someone born and bred in denmark, similar to what i think -- what we saw in boston. of course you don't want to make comparisons right now but the enemy, and it's not to oversimplify, the enemy is radicalization. the enemy is extremism and we do have to fight that through a variety of different forces and sources. >> 32 past the hour nap was the u.n. ambassador to denmark earlier on "morning joe." meanwhile, danish media is reporting that this man, omar abdel ameade al hussein was the gunman. danish police have not officially identified him as the shooter. joining us from copenhagen foreign correspondent keir simmons. keir, we've named the gunman. take it from there.
>> reporter: that's right, and we're learning more about who we believe that he was. it's being reported had just come out of prison just a few weeks ago. that he was somebody that had been in trouble with the police for a street crime, but then and this is the frightening thing, appears to have moved very very quickly towards islamic extremism. that process was fast perhaps and it's happened in the past perhaps it was a question of radicalization in prison, and there is a real sense of shock here mika as you would expect. a sense of normalcy shattered. you only have to look at the windows of the cafe behind me to have a sense of what it must have been like. remember, people are in there for an event, discussing free speech and you can count the bullet holes in this window. i count 27. there were reports that 30 shots were fired and this was just the first of those two attacks.
so in europe again, mika, people are trying to understand how this has happened again. >> keir simmons, thank you so much. and we turn now from that to the horrors of isis as we saw with the executions of christians in libya. isis often publicizes its brutal actions to stoke fear in civilians and motivate would-be militants, but as nbc's richard engel reports, there's another group of victims that is largely out of the public eye, but that does not mean the suffering is any less severe. >> reporter: the suffering of these people indelible images of men, women and children reaching up for help food water, blankets dropped on the sinjar mountain by helicopters. many of them american. but help didn't reach everyone. in the refugee camps of northern iraq, we met survivors of the horror that went on in thea village. people here seen in better times
couldn't reach the mountain so were still in the village when isis arrived. when they took the men we didn't know how many were going to be killed says this 19-year-old, who didn't want her face to be shown. in fact isis killed almost all of the men. but they had other plans for the women. they were grabbed by the hundreds and sold off to isis fighters as the spoils of war. isis is reviving the barbaric tradition of the slave trade, proudly showing its fighters in this isis video discussing the ya women they're about to buy. she recognized the men. i saw that one and this guy i don't know their names but i saw them. laughingly inspecting more than 80 girls picking out the ones they wanted. all of the girls screaming and crying, they didn't want to go with them so they beat the girls and dragged them away by force.
she was raped repeatedly for three months. they sold me from one plael to the next. the ordeal was even harder for the younger ones. they raped girls who were 9, 10 even 8. saying the older ones know something about men, while the younger ones no nothing. this is one of the innocents that the isis fighters sought out. she's just 12. she didn't know what rape meant, only that she woke up bleeding. he was old, she says about the man who bought her. he was 50. somehow, she escaped but is so badly traumatized, only now three months later, is she able haltingly to eastern speak again. they are being coaxed back by this remarkable woman from a charity. the girls call her mom. they're real mothers are still being held by isis. she had never seen the video of the isis men. i see this she says and i think of all the girls they
still have because they are doing everything imaginable to them. we just want justice. >> it's heartbreaking, and i don't know how they get justice. they're so behind. they're covered up. nobody tells these stories. i'm so glad richard did this. >> it is heartbreaking and to think some people are offended that isis -- that they're called savages. they are salve catchesvages. >> beasts. kareem abdul-jabbar is here with his thoughts on the relationship between the european terror attacks and religion. we'll be right back.
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41 part the hour. kareem abdul-jabbar, knew columnist to "time" magazine. good to have you with us and author of a new book for young adults stealing the game which we'll get to which actually has parallels to everything we're talking about this morning. doesn't seem like it works but it does. you wrote a piece in "time" following the "charlie hebdo" attacks basically making the premise that the terrorist attacks are not about religion. can you explain that? >> it's a -- it's a play for money and power, and these people try to impose their will on people so people will listen to them and they can be in charge. that's all it's about. it's about -- they -- they've taken on a fascist attitude and a fascist approach to everything. you do what we say or you die. >> and yet, joe, religion is being used. i mean, we can -- we can't deny
the fact that religion is being used and playing a role in this. i think everyone's getting, stumbling on this. >> an extremed twisted version of the religion. i was going ask a question and then stopped myself. how tough is it to be a muslim in america and then i stopped myself saying my god, you were really on the forefront of this back in the early '70s. how difficult was it then? how difficult is it still today? >> when i first became muslim we were under the radar. i mean we -- no muslims had done anything crazy, and we stayed under the radar. most muslims lived a peaceful and prosperous life here in america and then 9/11 came and all of that changed. >> everything changed. >> how difficult is it now? >> it can be difficult, but i think there's more and more understanding of how this process happens. >> right. >> especially when you can make parallels to things that have happened here in america.
like the ku klux klan saying they are the christian knights. the ku klux klan and did not practice christianity. >> right. >> anything you're familiar with. >> right. >> and you can see that any group can do this. there was an article in yesterday's "new york times" about the first crusade, and the first people that they sacked were jews living in europe. >> right. >> they devastated them, took all their wealth and kept on their way through the holy land. so people use that as an excuse. it's not an excuse it's no excuse and oppressing one group means that we have to look out, all groups have to get together to fight that type of oppression, because we all should be free. >> so -- and i think art and literature are waying to do it. tell us about stealing the game? your latest book. >> "stealing the game" is about growing up and trying to play basketball and trying to cope with life. the -- the demands that the game
puts on you, how do you get along with people that you want to be friends with conflict resolution, all of those things that young people have to contend with as they try to get to adulthood. and i use my own life as a template just trying to fit in and -- thank heaven for basketball. >> in what way? >> in every way. i stood out physically. intellectually you want people to respect you. you don't want to come off as a dummy. you know? >> right. >> and a lot of times, you know kids are so tough on each other. >> right. >> you know? so we talk about all of these issues. it's about diversity. there's one main character, she's a muslim. she's a great basketball player and she has to try to fit in. >> and sports really can be a bridge. we see that in popular culture and, like "remember the titans" but it also does hab in basketball lockers rooms, in football locker rooms. >> nixon, ping-pong diplomacy.
opened up the door to china. you sgloe joe lewis, all of a sudden it changed people's ideas about black americans. jackie robinson. all of those -- all of those different milestones enable us to see each other as human beings instead of they're different. >> that would be accepting differences, though. i mean we struggle so hard as kids and you talk about the struggle to fit in. you can't fit in. you're different. but that should be in way part of the process. >> and celebrate. >> assimilated and celebrated. yeah. >> especially a good rebounder, you can fit in better. >> i've got an 11-year-old girl. when you say young adults is this good for -- >> up to 12. yeah. >> fantastic. >> kareem abdul-jabbar, thank you so much. the new book "stealing the game." get t. it's an honor. thank you for being here. up next. joe, it goes on. fashion icon and former editor at large of "vogue" magazine is
here. next on "morning joe." >> hopefully you'll help me dress better. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] you wouldn't ignore signs of damage in your home. are you sure you're not ignoring them in your body? even if you're treating your crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation. and if you ignore the signs, the more debilitating your symptoms could become. learn more about the role damaging inflammation may be playing in your symptoms with the expert advice tool at crohnsandcolitis.com. and then speak with your gastroenterologist.
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i've got pull it up on youtube. first of all, joe question for you. listens? listen carefully. what is beyonce, oprah, sarah jessica parker, sjp, chelsea clinton and ivanka have in common? these women wore. >> correct. >> joining us contributor editor for "vogue," andre leon talley. >> have to have that. stop. >> i'll have you made one in north africa. it's very much you. jump out. flip it on -- >> i love that. sorry, mika. didn't mean to interrupt. >> it actually matches. it matches the set, everything. >> i need that. >> when he cupomes on next time. >> why did you decide to curate this? >> it's scad. one of the greatest places for careers and fashion.
marketing, merchandizing, fashion design and oscar was a friend of mine died at 82 last fall. i thought, let me go in and do an exhibit and asked him family. they said, yes. i sdooddecided to go into their closets, people said i was in their closets, i was in the closet 8:30 in the morning, 5:00 in the afternoon, 3:30 in the morning. >> photos of some of the biggest female names in the world wearing oscar de la renta fashions and explain to me what it was about his style that brought something classic to the table, something that lives on forever, something that would actually have you curate an exhibit for? i know your time is precious. >> beyonce. a dress she wore on the cover of "vogue" and into our archives. oscar lived for beauty. lived to make women feel beautiful. he did not want -- that's oprahs
dress. >> gorgeous. >> navy blue. oprah looks fabulous. this is oprah sending this to scad. sarah jessica parker wore this last year and es score andy cohen. had you on the show many times. in white tie and tails. this is mrs. de la renta, the wife of oscar who wore this to her daughter's wedding in 1998. and i remembered how she looked at the wedding. it's hats in paris. it's a jacketed dress. young girls coming to the museum a 15-year-old african-american girl from minnesota flew to see the exhibit and said that's my favorite look. >> it's gorgeous. >> and the classic looks. there's lines to them. >> always a classic system but always a twist. this is a dress that chelsea clinton wore last year to carnegie hall with her husband for a fabulous concert. it's always very much steeped in tradition and classism and always scooperens and joy in his work.
ivanka trump. go figure. a strange color to wear but what a great dress on a blonde? ivanka trump. of course i edited the black bluvs. designed by oscar as well. he also designed furniture. could design rugs design anything. he loved gardens flowers, wluved ed loved to dance loved to sing and joy came through in his work. >> i'm going. the scad. >> can we just say how extraordinary -- >> how great is she? >> she's absolutely fantastic, and you know when i saw her last night i didn't realize how much i'd missed her on "snl." she is a joy. >> look at her! >> oh! >> oh my god. it's fabulous. >> oh my god. and the hair. the wind and the hair. nothing is as great and when she said -- >> she and martin -- >> and martin short. amazing last night. >> one of best moments in a great show nap is fabulous. >> by the way, mika he lifted the joke he used to you.
to her last night. >> what did he do? no, he didn't? >> he did. he said give plea scissors. so i can cut your straps and release the hostages. >> oh my god! >> which, for some reason only martin short could get away with that. a little fact minnie ripperton. >> her mother. died tragically young, saying love in you, sang, and what a talent she s. what a talent. what about in "bridesmaids." that scene in bridesmaids. went across the street. >> and quickly, "snl," how did it go down last night? >> brilliant. i thought it was brilliant. it will go down in history one of the great moments in television for three hours or whatever. brilliant. i loved kanye west coming out of a beam of light and jane curtin sitting with the fabulous amy poehler and one of the -- couldn't get better. i was riveted. >> love it. very very quickly. it's fashion week. what are you looking for? >> excitement. looking for news. looking for kanye west had a
fabulous show for adidas. wearing panty hose basically as a new winter suit. i'm looking for beauty and oscar de la renta and ralph lauren the favorite. herrera, michael kors. >> how did we even get you today? thank you. >> i love you both. thanks for having me. >> love you, too. >> thank you. and what if anything did we learn today, next. before larry instantly transferred money from his bank of america savings account to his merrill edge retirement account. before he opened his first hot chocolate
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it's been a long time. [ applause ] oh bradley cooper. showing his range. >> he was, because -- >> now how he saved betty white from a hot air balloon crash on catalina island. >> not only on the "snl" special but on "60 minutes," a full profile of him. >> unbelievable. >> all the networks covered practically. >> what did you learn today? >> so much. i think that i'm going to scad. i'm inspired by andre's exhibit. we'll have to visit. what about you? >> so much. from copenhagen to paris, to libya. obviously we live in a new world. and europe is waking up from history, and i think we're going see a lot more countries actually join us in the fight against this radical brand of
islam that has to be defeated. >> a conversation we had this hour on -- >> for the sake of muslims. >> freedom of speech felt a little risky definitely worth having. if it's way too early what time is it? >> it's "morning joe." but stick around a lot of news straight ahead on "the rundown." we'll see you tomorrow. >> have a good day. good morning. i'm craig melvin in for jose diaz-balart. an invedably busy morning on "the rundown."".." egypt is seeking revenge for the brutal execution of 21 christians seized by the terror group. the first time since the 1990 gulf war egypt publicly acknowledg