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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  March 2, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PST

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bout where he wouldn't be able to get served when he was on the road. the last line of karen russell's e hail-mail to me, tonight on "all in." shocking new footage of another office involved shooting in los angeles. as cleveland officially blames a 12-year-old rice for his own death. >> the moment is now for us to make changes. >> we talk about it with crump. and netanyahu arrives in america. >> imagine what iran two with americans. >> tonight, fact checking the americans predecks on iran. plus the latest on vladimir putin and the murder of his top political foe.
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and as balm care returns to the supreme court, why republicans may stand to lose even if they win. all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york. shock, outrage, and a lot of questions tonight. at about noon yesterday, police were called to 545 south san pedro street on a reported robbery. after officers responded to the location they say they attempted to detain the suspect. here is part of the altercation that ensued. [ bleep ].
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[ gunshot ] . [ gunshot ] . >> whoa! oh, my god! >> god [ bleep ]. bleep. >> we pause the video at the sound of the first shot but multiple shots were fired. prior to the shooting you can hear people saying drop the gun or drap drop /* drop your gun numerous times. andrew smith described the altercation. >> during the attempt to detain him, he did not cooperate, they tried to taze him. and then there was a struggle over one of the officer's weapons. three officers were involved, a supervisor and two police officers. the suspect was struck and he
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was pronounced dead at the scene by the fire department. >> security camera footage is available. there was multiple eyewitnesss that reacted in realtime and after at the shock happening before their eyes. >> they just killed that man. >> one of those witnesses seems to corroborate part, but not the most crucial part of the commander smith's account. he describes the actions of the man on the street known as africa. >> they tased him a couple times. the officer was saying give me my baton, like i need back up, why are now not helping me. >> did you see him -- >> not at all. >> the central question is culpability of an unarmed suspect. in his own shooting death by police. whether he represented a threat to the police that warranted lethal force. the kinds of questions that have come front and center following a string of cases in which unarmed black men are shot and killed by police with various claims of justification.
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the most recent being the shooting death of 12-year-old tamera rice. rice was shot and killed. now the city of cleveland, in a legal filing in it's capacity as a department in a wrongful death lawsuit made an assertion that sounded shocking. plaintiffs' decedent's injuries, losses, and damages complained of were directly and caused by the plaintiff's failure to exercise due care. in other words the boy was responsible for his own death. the mayor of cleveland himself today, frank jackson, felt a need to apologize. >> in on attempt to protect all of our defences, we use word and phrased things in a way that was
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very insensitive. we are apologizing today as a city to the family of tamire rice, and the citizens of the city of cleveland. for our poor use of our words and our insensitivity and use of those words. >> joining me now is benjamin crump. attorney for the family of tamire rice. your response to the filing by the city of cleveland? >> it was shocking, chris. to say this 12-year-old kid who has now become the face of police excessive force in america is responsible for his own death, especially after you watch what you see on that surveillance video, chris. that is very important. it is 1.7 seconds that they come and shoot this child that is on a playground. and it is riveting because you see the gazebo there. there is a merry go round and a slide.
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when the car comes up as reckless as it does, if there was any other children on that playground they would have been in harm's way. it is just troubling on so many levels that you're now going to blame a 12-year-old child, based on what we see on this video. >> mr. crump, this is a legal filing in a city where they're defendants in a claim of wrongful death by the family that you represent. is it not the case that were you, the attorney for the city of cleveland, you would be essentially duty bound as an advocate to make precisely the kinds of arguments that the city of cleveland is making here. >> or you can say we made a mistake. you can be honest with people and say this is a terrible thing. this is not what we want our police officers to do. you can come out and, you know, i mayor offered an apology that i know we will talk about later, but what you want a city and responsible leadership to do is
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when you make a mistake, when you have failed your citizens, to be honest. go and say that this officer, this shooter, we made a mistake hiring him. you know, he had been force to resign three months prior to the city of cleveland hiring him as a police department. and his employment records, chris. they say he was untrainable. he was not fit to be a police officer. this is the person that shot this child in 1.7 seconds. even more troubling than that, chris, is what happens when his 14-year-old sister runs out of the community center screaming they killed my baby brother. they don't show her any compassion. they don't show her any care as you would think a compassionate person would. they tackle her.
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she tries to get up. they put her in handcuffs and drag her in the snow in the back of the police car and she is handcuffed in the back seat of a police car the way you see on the surveillance video, and she watches her 12-year-old brother kicking as he lays dieing in the snow. >> given that set of facts, i have to ask if the rice family accepts the mayor's apology. >> what they want instead of apologizing for word choices and grammar, they want a sincere apology saying we failed. we have an epidemic going on across america as you show with los angeles. and then i have a representation of the family in pasco, washington where a medical examiner -- mexican national name, he is running from the police, he puts his hands up and they continue to shoot.
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so people like other noted lawyers have to fight to make a record of this stuff. but before we didn't have video, so it is riveting that we have video now, and so hopefully more people than just the victims in our communities are saying this is wrong what the police is doing. >> should cleveland forfeit their case, come forward and settle the case. saying this is a wrongful death. we're sorry, and settle civilly with you and the family? >> i think what they were really apologetic and sincere, they would want to do a quick resolution and say actions speak so loud we don't need to say anything. we know it was wrong what happened. we know that the officers should have tried to deescalate the situation. and not jessica late the -- and not escalate the situation.
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the police officer, look how recklessly he drove up on the scene. what protocol was he following. we want officers trained properly so we don't continue to see these things happen over and over again at such an alarming rate. >> benjamin crump, thank you. >> thank you. >> we also have news tonight in what is arguably the most polarizing closely followed police shooting in recent memory. death of michael brown at the hands of officer darren wilson. a local jury declined to indict wilson. they hoped that they might bring a civil right's case against wilson. according to the "new york times," that won't be happening. the justice department did not find grounds for a civil right's violation, but they are finishing a report into the broader practices of ferguson police. a highly critical report accusing police in ferguson of making discriminatory traffic
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stops creating years of animosity leading up to the shooting of a black teenager last summer. referring to michael brown. today president obama's task force on police shootings said that such shootings should be investigated by independent prosecutors and that was just one of many recommendations. >> there was recommendations around racial profiling. that is a step we have taken at the federal level. if you talk to the fbi, if you talk to our federal law enforcement, it may be challenging for them to change old practices, but they are confident that they're able to continue to do their job effectively. >> joining me now is barry scheck. civil rights and attorney. great to have you here. >> great to be here. >> let's start with a task force and work our way back through that news. you work intimately on the other side of police investigations and prosecutors for years. different jurisdictions and quality of prosecutions, different procedures, right? different levels of corruption.
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and integrity. what can the government do when you talk about the crazy spectrum on policing. >> they have 18,000 different policing agencies. people get money from the federal government, these agencies. the hope is that you will be able to incentivize them to change practices in return for getting the money. and also that the justice department, and it is already beginning to do this, will set out certain training programs that will really bring some closure to some of the worst problems. take the cleveland shooting. everybody that has been part of what they call tactical policing, really invented by this great genius who was a new york city police officer, got a ph.d.
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professor rat at jon /* /* -- professor at john j. the first thing that you teach police officers when they arrive upon a scene of a report of man with a gun, in this instance teenager with a gun. when you pull up your police car, you get to a position of cover, behind the police car. you yell clear and loud commands. police, freeze. don't move. but not drop your gun. i can't think of any explanation for what they could give for what happened in cleveland. so what ben crump told you is exactly what cleveland should do. they should say we admit this was wrong, we will pay money damages. we will try to cooperate with the critics that came in from the department of justice in december that said this is a long standing problem. the justice department issued a 14141. a notification of practices that they did not have adequate training, they were using excessive force.
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it was recent, but the most important thing that this 21st century policing report of the obama administration points out is remedy. how can we get these remedies to work? we had a lot of consent decrees across the country. in jails. in new york, in new orleans, louisiana where you have decent decrees and nothing happens. o what the 21st century report is trying to point out is that we need to get everybody involved. the reviews to see if they can come up with new remedies that work. >> so the question becomes at what level does the problem lie? there is one analysis that says it is in insufficient and spotty training. the other says the problem lies
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deeper in overpolicing of the nation. and practices and policies that created the largest prison population in the western world. you can train if you want, but that will not get to the root here. >> that is true, we all know there is mass incarceration -- we all know that's true. >> not everybody. >> not everybody, but when you try to talk about remedy, this is not simple. we had the ruling on stop and frisk in new york. now we have another judge looking at how to enforce it. it may sound crazy to you, but we have to get the police unions involved. we have to get to the street narrative in the head of officers, that it is training, protecting the community and themselves. >> and that gets down to the nub of what makes it so difficult. watching that video in the los angeles shooting, right? i don't know, i can't read the minds of anyone involved in
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that, but i can plausibly think that officers thought their life was in danger even if from an objective third party standpoint they weren't. it seems like a gap between those two things where this happens. >> people point out there was a special group there that takes care of homeless people that tries to deal with mentally ill people. so i know what these are like. usually theyre are procedures with nets and -- they tried to tase him twice. apparently the officer involved was on probation, he was new. also in cleveland, the officer that never should have been hired in the first place. >> and that points to big flaws in the practices and training. >> we'll see you on thursday. we're doing a special one-hour episode on a man in texas who says he is innocent.
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the innocence project is making a strong case for that. >> thank you, chris. if you bring the cameras there, i'm not sure -- >> there was a stay of execution, he will not be, we'll will running our original reporting on that and we'll see you then, thank you a lot. the most polarizing diplomatic visit in history, why should you be skeptical of benjamin netanyahu's reason for being here. ahead. at least fails, while daring greatly sfx: background city noise ♪ many people clean their dentures with toothpaste or plain water. and even though their dentures look clean, in reality they're not. if a denture were to be put under a microscope we can see all the bacteria that still exists on the denture and that bacteria multiplies very rapidly. that's why dentists recommend cleaning with polident everyday. polident's unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99.99% of odor causing bacteria.
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>> the concern is not only does it look like it politicizes the relationship, but what is also a problem is when the topic of the prime minister's speech is an area where the executive branch, the u.s. president and his team have a disagreement with the other side. i don't think it is permanently disruptive. i think it is a distraction from what should be our focus. and that should be how do we stop iran from getting a nuclear weapon. >> the president eluding to a tale of two diplomatic missions.
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playing out across the globe today. john kerry in switzerland working on a deal that could be historic ahead of a march 24th deadline. and benjamin netanyahu here to try to blow up that deal. he may not be the best messenger for his own cause. we'll tell you what his cause is, next. i'll never look back, i will just look younger new olay total effects with more vitamins than the leading prestige moisturizer to fight 7 signs of aging. in just 4 weeks, skin looks up to 10 years younger. from the world's #1. olay. your best beautiful alright, so this tylenol arthritis lasts 8 hours,
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but aleve can last 12 hours... and aleve is proven to work better on pain than tylenol arthritis. so why am i still thinking about this? how are you? aleve, proven better on pain. >> tomorrow in washington, the biggest diplomatic dispute comes to a head. benjamin netanyahu will lobby a against a possible deal with
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iran. . some of the most hawkish leaders are expressing anger at netanyahu. american jewish groups like the anti-defamation league calling on him to cancel the speech. and more than 40 members of congress, now planning to skip it all together. in a warm-up address today at the conference of the israel public affairs committee, netanyahu insisted he did not mean to step on president obama's toes. >> my speech is not intended to show any disrespect to president obama or the esteemed office that holds. i have great respect for both. my speech is also not intended to inject israel into the american partisan debate. >> he maintains the talks with iran posees a threat toes rail. s a threat toes rail. and is widely known to be the
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only middle eastern country with a nuclear weapon. he argued that the whole diplomatic flap and the damage it has caused is worth it to try and block a deal. >> the purpose of my address to congress tomorrow is to speak up about a potential deal with iran that could threaten the survival of israel. iran envelops the entire world with it's tentacles of terror. this is what iran is doing now without nuclear weapons. imagine what they will do with nuclear weapons. and the same iran vows to annihilate israel if they develop nuclear weapons, it would have the means to achieve that goal. >> one official saying we feel that members of congress are not fully aware of the details of the emerging deal with iran. and we want to warn them. but here is the thing. but benjamin netanyahu is not the most reliable source of information on iran's nuclear program.
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back in 1992, netanyahu advised that iran was three to five years away from reaching nuclear weapons capability. in a 1995 book three years later, netanyahu once again asserted to iran would have nuclear weapons in three to five years. that was 20 years ago. they still have not gotten it. in the intervening decades, he has continued to warn they're on the verge of making a bomb, most notably in 2012 when he used this highly technical cartoon as a visual aid. they concluded that iran was not performing the activity necessary to produce weapons. joining me now, my next guest, hooman.
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susan rice says a bad deal is better than no deal. what are the contours of the deal and how does anyone from the iran side, american side, score it as good or bad. i think the obama administration made it clear what a good deal is as far as the u.s. is concerned. that is a one-year break out time. one year from when they decide to build a bomb. they need at least a year to do so. and that would give the u.s. enough time to impose sanctions, or attack iran, or whatever. whatever they need to do to stop iran from doing it. >> just to be clear, what the u.s. is saying is a situation in which iran has some domestic nuclear capabilities that is monitored in such a way, were they declared out, we're no longer doing this, it would take them a year to get to -- >> at least a year, yeah.
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the assumption would be you have to be that right now they have daily inspections on the iranian nuclear sides. you would have to kick out those before we attacked them. then you would assume what they're kicking out, and you're withdrawing from the npt, that you would have a bomb. >> they don't necessarily trust the u.n. monitoring -- >> it's the iaea. >> yes, and the iranians to stick to a deal. whatever they find won't be worth the paper its written on -- >> the history has shown they have stuck to a deal. they have stuck to the joint plan of action that was signed in 2013. november of 2013. they have abided by that treaty. it's not a treaty, sorry, by that agreement to scale back the nuclear program to stop enriching at 20%. which is a much more dangerous closer to weapons grade uranium enrichment. so they have abided by that. so what -- why believe they're not going to abide by a deal. and if they don't, we'll know.
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how will we not know? it will be very clear. this is the number of centrifuges you have. this is the stockpile you can maintain, what is there not to know? unless they are doing something in secret. you can argue if they're doing something in secret that no one has discovered, not the cia. no intelligence agency in the world has been able to discover, and they're not a hermit kingdom, no one has discovered their secretly building a bomb, if they're doing it anyway, what does it matter if we can't discover it. if they're going to build a bomb, they're going to build a bomb. >> it seems to me the argument that susan rice makes before apac is that a deal is the only way to stop them from pursuing a bomb. >> absolutely. it incentivizes them not to build a bomb. >> why? >> a deal makes -- if sanctions are lifted as iran demands, because the things we demand from iran they demand in return. lifting of sanctions, back into the international community,
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in terms of economically connected to the world. banks, oil sanctions, it would make them economically viable. right now they're having problems. it would bring it out of isolation. when that happens, iran can progress in many ways that it can't right now. it can't even fly it's planes right now because of sanctions, for example.s planes right now because of sanctions, for example. >> if you're benjamin netanyahu, or anyone high up in the israeli government, a deal means this country that is declared an enemy of yours, they want to destroy you -- they will get stronger, broadening the national community, their arch of influence that is growing through iraq and other places is stronger, why do you want that? >> i can see that and of course that is why he doesn't want a nuclear deal.
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the problem is if iran is an existential threat, with a nuclear deal, this particular deal as far as he knows the contours of the deal will be an existential threat. if there is not, their nuclear program will accelerate. they will abide because they said they will, but that doesn't mean they can enrich uranium all the way to 80%. they can go to 90%. >> they can do the north korea two-step which is be in the treaty, within the contours of the treaty, and then say peace, we're out of the treaty, we have a weapon. >> if you're saying we don't want a deal, what you're saying is the only way to stop them is to go to war. >> a military -- they're not going to stop by themselves. >> military action like targeted strikes will not work. we know that. that will also not stop a bomb. then you're talking about an invasion. half a million troops.
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i think obama is correct in saying if you're against a deal, any deal, that doesn't completely stop them -- >> you're essentially okay with a bomb or military -- >> you're either okay with them having a bomb, but one or the other. hooman majd. do you think there are more male ceos of major corporations or more female ceos? okay that's a silly question. how about this, more women ceos or ceos named dave? another silly question. ion that adapts to your body. oh yea, that's coming down let's get some rocks, man. health can change in a minute.
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today the "new york times" ran this headline. fewer women run companies than men named john. which is a try true fact, apparently.true fact, apparently.true fact, apparently.true fact, apparently.rue fact, apparently. 5.3% of ceos are named john. 4.5% are named david, and all women of any name make up 4.1%. we made this handy pie chart that shows what portion of ceos are men compared to women. in this pool of companies. that said given the fact indeed 95.9% of all adults in this country are men, at ratio, makes perfect sense. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further
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>> i want to show you a picture of a crime scene. one of the most ominous crime scene images i have seen in a long time. that is the body of former deputy prime minister boris nebstoff. during the reign of vladimir putin one of the most prominent and outspoken leaders in russia. he had given a radio interview hours before he was gunned down. he called for honest elections and deemed putin a pathological liar. he said i'm afraid putin will kill me. he was reportedly shot multiple times in the back as he walked across a bridge with his girlfriend. he was slain in the heart of moscow, steps from red square, and just 200 yards, 600 feet, from the walls of the kremlin itself. that is an area that is exceedingly well monitored. plenty of security cameras that
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would be expected to capture such a killing from close range. reporters are being told that the cameras on the bridge where he was shot were not working. putin spokesman says a russian leader is overseeing the investigation. they say they will do everything to make sure that the organizers and perpetrators get their justice. yesterday on the day that he had himself originally called for a public protest against russia's involvement in ukraine tens of thousands of people took to the streets of moscow to honor even mourn him. many believe that putin is directly or indirectly responsible for the killing which is the latest in a series of high profile murders of russian opposition figures. including 2006 killing of a woman who was highly critical of policies. and alexander litvineoko.
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right now the primary witness is the ukrainian girlfriend who is barred from leaving russia. theories are swirling on state run media that the west was responsible for his death. the english language version of the newspaper saying that his demise has all of the ear marks of the cia. a whodunit. let's start here. the most extreme interpretation of events would be that vladimir putin or someone would go kill this guy and do it in such a way that is so obvious that everyone will be terrified, and kill him right near the kremlin. how likely do you think that scenario is? >> i think the scenario is likely but not the first part.
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we'll kill him so very close to the kremlin to send a message and all of our enemies will shiver. but we know exactly what they want. >> this gets to this area of, say for a moment that it is unlikely that vladimir putin ordered this hit, and say there are theories this might have been personal, ex-girlfriend -- anything like that. let's put those aside and say most likely it seems a nebulus force. what does that operate like? who are the people that act as kremlin enforcers in connection to, with a wink and a nod, to the kremlin. >> remember when they were killing thomas beckett, the knights did not need an order from the king. they knew exactly what to do.
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so he explained how it would be. we don't need to know. in the formula, you know what he wants. so the way it operates is that it itself is anti-kremlin. in this nationalist environment created in russia, putin created which is why he is responsible for this murder whether he ordered it or not. in this nationalist environment for those who are not with us are against us, it becomes a very legitimate reason to enemy to be killed. it could be anybody. it could be a nationalist thug. it could be a mid-level security forces. they're thinking they're ridding the country of the enemy who is not patriotic. >> there is a big difference between a leader of a country saying do something, and that
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because there is a national environment creating a -- >> there is a legal and a moral difference. >> the moral, maybe, but the thing, the way it has been working especially in the last year, those who are anti-putin become anti-russian. those who are anti-russian have a necessity to be eliminated. so if you're going anti-communist, that means you're anti-soviet and you need to go. basically it is the same kind of formula. so yes, in legal terms, there is a difference, but in russian terms, where legality is an iffy subject. it doesn't exist unless the kremlin tells you what legality is, then it is not. >> so then what happens next? >> i am finally with that -- those shots that killed so i became one of those that had a dooms day scenario. i think the reason they have not
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found a culprit yet, which is very bizarre because it is the most watched area -- >> it would be like a republican senator being murdered on pennsylvania avenue half a block from the white house. >> we have seen that happen. the white house has been stormed by various people. it's basically -- however when those people stormed the white house, they were apprehended very quickly. here it has been three days and nobody knows what is going on. so i think they're figuring out how to spin it to their advantage. they want to blacken putin and it is a provocation. that is where we're at right now. >> thank you very much. thank you. how four little words could turn the politics of obama care totally upside down. that is ahead. e bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what? (announcer) the 2015 subaru forester (girl) what?
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it is an underappreciated fact about ezra that he can put up some weight. i said that i think my size would give me the edge and ezra agreed. if you missed out on the chat this time, check it out on facebook.com/all in chris. while you're there, give us a like, won't you? in getting key nutrients from food alone. let's do more, together. add one a day. complete with key nutrients we may need. plus, for women, physical energy support with b vitamins. and for men, it helps support healthy blood pressure with vitamin d and magnesium. take one a day multivitamins. ♪ [piano background music begins] ♪ we are one, we are essentially the same regardless of where we come from. um, there are definitely things that are different about us culturally and everything else but at the end of the day we are the same and we really need to start seeing the world as a place that was gifted to us. [thunder and rain] [thunder and rain]
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on wednesday, the u.s. supreme court is scheduled to hear the biggest challenge to obama care since the last momentous obama care challenge that threatened to undermine or destroy the president's signature treatment. last year at this time they upheld the mandate, and there was a sense that the watchers at the last battle had fought and won. and yet here we are again. king versus burwell. a high stakes take on not about whether obama care is unconstitutional.
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it focuses on how part of the statute are worded. they can buy private insurance in an exchange. if they don't, the feds will open one for them. one big advantage is most people that buy insurance from these exchanges can get help from the federal government. in the provision of the statute that describes this process, it reads the government can help with costs through an exchange established by the state. those seven words, that should allow obama care to help pay for insurance premiums, only in those states that have their own exchanges. now, having subsidies available in every state is key and fundamental to the law and being able to function. it was a point so fundamental that it was never really covered. i covered this debate. according to the people in the debate over the law, as sarah cliff puts in at vox.com, obama
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has fights ending in subsidies was not one of them. we will continue to cover some of the arguments here and the stunning bad faith of the plaintiffs.question what if conservative opponents of obamacare finally win? will it be like the proverbial dog that caught the car? in 27 states that have not set upstate-based exchanges, most under republican control, around 9 million people who bought insurance through health care.gov would lose their subsidies. two thirds of those people would become uninsured. assuming the plaintiffs win with if they win, every democratic member of the state legislature in every state that doesn't have its own exchange can campaign to set one up. give people back their shelt insurance and subsidyies, reduce premiums. the second half of the decision comes down democrats will be handed a huge political weapon. what the heck is a republican plan if that happens? someone who helped to craft the law will join me next.
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michael steel former rnc chairman. put to the side issue of statutory interpretation and good faith, which which we will table for the moment. say the court says, yeah, this is wrong and you see millions of people get their subsidies jacked up, some knock ed off. what's the republican plan? >> that's still developing. >> that's a good thing to tell those folks. >> after six years it is still developing. i think what we have seen, there was an op-ed that began to lay out the framework of a plan which would do a couple of things. first thing it would hold in place an certainly hold harmless those on the current exchange system so that they would keep those subsidies in place for a period of time. that time is not been made certain yet. how long that would be. but so their situations would
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not change. this would not see the immediate extinguishing of people's access to health care. >> they would have to -- they have to pass that faster than anyone has passed anything in washington in a long time right? >> yeah. i think people are confident in the congress's ability but the house and senate's ability to pass legislation should take just a step and look at what happened on friday night where basic piece of legislation could not pass the house of representatives. you have -- >> a piece of legislation that was three weeks of funding. three weeks. >> let me say, when you have member after member of the house republican caucus spending five years saying obamacare is not socialism and everything in between it seems hard for me to fathom how they are going to just magically pass exchang of subsidyies when let's keep many mind you have some republican senators arguing this but many
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more republican senators saying this is going to be chaos, why bother. >> that is all true but at the end of the day the reality, very much like the shutdown reality, will force some type of action to hold harmless those individuals in the exchange system. you have to do that. otherwise you are absolutely right. come june the day the decision is made the day after that you will have a situation where everybody's out of the exchange and they don't have health care. >> right. >> so there's going to have to be -- if the plaintiff in this case wins the congress had better have in place a seriously, within 12 hours, legislation to run with this thing. otherwise, you know, health care doesn't stop because the congress decides not to act. >> unfortunately it does stop if the congress decides not to act. that's why people are anxious about nine justices literally threatening the health care of 9
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million people. they have looked at this congress that has been unable to do these things and ask themselves, why are we in this situation? why is health care threatened like this? it is conservatives that have had a full attempt to not -- they can't get through congress so they are returning to the courts. >> the other thing is look you could pass a four-word amendment that said established by the states or the federal government or the federal government, four words, right, if it is found in the plaintiff's favor. >> that ain't happening. >> that's the question. why not just do that. >> that's not happening. >> here's the thing, michael. if the simple technical fix is not happening and you say something more is going to happen you create a space in which ted cruz and others will say now we have the leverage burn the whole thing to the ground. why is that not going to happen. >> that is part of the political cuelation the party will have to make. i think at the end of the day, i
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don't think we will get there. i think the court has laid down the predicate to uphold this law. i think they are going to find as they go through their analysis of the intent of congress, the pure language the plaj plain language of the law, et cetera i think it will weight more in favor of the defendant here. >> i think -- i have to agree. i think many supreme court justices and many conservatives have recognized they will do pro found harm to their party if the supreme court guts this law because there are actual victims, millions of victims. that's why i think you find the republican governors and many senators and legislators recognizing that hold on here we cannot let the conservative activists destroy obamacare because we will be victimized because people are being helped by this law. >> michael a, you said an interesting thing to me. people that watched this case it feels like the wins and the
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momentum to the extent there is such a thing for a supreme court case are shifting for the precise reasons that michael articulated. thank you both. that is "all in" for this evening. rachel maddow show starts right now. >> great to have you back. >> good to be back. thank you for staying with us the next hour. a lot going on in the world. a, chris hayes is back and the controversial address to congress by the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. that address is tomorrow. washington is in a full-scale tizzy over that right now. we will have more on that ahead. after congress threw themselves a week-long lifeline on friday night, we are back again in a situation where the homeland security department may run out of funding at the end of the week. that's still happening. 2016 politics got slightly cram scrambled on both sides of the aisle with foreign policy proving to be confusing to the upper tiers of the

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