tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC March 4, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm PST
sue of ferguson as attorney general will be in the top line of history of his time in office and of country and how we live now. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. now time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." >> eric holder has literally gone where no attorney general before him has gone. he's done work that has been ignored for decades that should have been done. >> this sort of exit stuff interview he's doing and the way he's leaving, he's making a lot of good cases for what future attorney generals will have more latitude to do this. >> thanks rachel. well tonight, subpoenas have been issued for hillary clinton's e-mails when she was secretary of state which we now know were kept on a server in her home in new york. and the supreme court considered the meaning of a few very simple words today, words that appear in the affordable care act, and as usual, the justices could not agree on what those words meant.
also tonight, republican darling dr. ben carson apologized for what he said earlier today about gay sex in prison and it is a truly remarkable apology. supreme court arguments have just concluded on a legal challenge that goes to the heart of the president's affordable care act. >> health care under attack! stand up fight back! >> 7 million people could lose their subsidies. >> the question for the supreme court is who gets that subsidisome >> it's unwise to draw conclusions based on the questioning of the justices. >> we turn now from the supreme court to the federal court. the federal courthoused in boston. >> the bombing suspect's defense lawyer made a stunning admission. >> it was him. that statement not from prosecutors but the defense attorney. >> this whole trial is not about guilt or innocence. the whole trial is does he live or die? >> our investigations show that ferguson police officers routinely violate the fourth
amendment. >> a pattern of racial bias among authorities in ferguson, missouri. >> stunning patterns of racial bias. >> stopping people without reasonable suspicion. arresting them without probable cause. and using unreasonable force against them. >> nobody wants to see anybody treated unfairly. >> marriage equality is once again on hold in alabama leaving couples in limbo, despite a u.s. supreme court order allowing them to proceed. >> do you think being gay is a choice? >> absolutely. >> why do you say that? >> because a lot of people who go into prison go into prison straight and when they come out they're gay. >> she is the keeper of her records. >> hillary clinton's exclusive views of a private e-mail account. >> whether it's unprecedented or not is very unusual. as expected the house committee that's still investigating the deadly attack on american diplomats in benghazi libya issued subpoenas
today for then secretary of state hillary clinton's e-mails. the associated press said today it is considering legal action under the freedom of information act against the state department for failing to turn over some e-mails during secretary clinton's tenure. the ap says the state department has never before suggested that it did not possess all of secretary clinton's e-mails. joining me now is an investigative reporter for the associated press who broke the story about hillary clinton's private e-mail server at her home. jack the -- how did you trace this server to her home? >> when we began looking, lawrence at the existence of private e-mail accounts we
looked at these contemporaneous internet records that showed where this -- what server was registered at this time. that ip address had gone back to an internet connections that owned by somebody at the clinton's household at the time registered to somebody who had a slight misspelling that turned out to be an aide to the secretary when she was first lady under then president bill clinton. we don't know where that e-mail server is located, but we know that it was ran on a network the clintons had owned somewhere in new york state. >> and the aide you're talking about who seems to have set this up is named eric hotham and he has a long history with the clintons that involves other controversies. >> right. i think the question here is when we look into the server and how we know the clintons have used this private internet connection is where are these
e-mails being stored, why are they using a service rather than something that the state department had, and how secure were those messages particularly in the face of foreign adversaries. >> as of now, we have -- no one has succeeded in getting a reason for this from hillary clinton? >> they have declined to comment on this issue, and this comes amid, as you mentioned, the associated press and other news organizations requests under the freedom of information act, to get e-mails in which secretary of state -- when hillary clinton was secretary of state because those messages are between her and her aides are about a variety of topics. journalists use those records to evaluate a presidential candidate as she will likely seek the democratic nomination for the white house. >> and jack the state department is -- has been sort of assuring us that there were
no classified e-mails or information involved but according to what we know so far, it is impossible for the state department to know everything that happened on that e-mail system. >> well that's good question lawrence. when you have e-mails hosted on a separate server someone that either they owned that server or it's on a third party server like google or g-mail it's unclear when the government has to go searching for those e-mails because a journalist had requested them. if those are in house, they can go to the i.t. folks and say the state department or any other obama administration executive agency and ask for those records when they're on a third party server maybe one hosted at somebody's house, it's incumbent on the person there to turn over those records. that's what congressional investigators are asking for today in seeking those e-mails. >> just quickly background us on the freedom of information act request. apparently the ap issued freedom
of information act requests over the years to the state department that would have included hillary clinton e-mails. you got no hillary clinton e-mail and the state department never said to you, oh we don't possess any. she possesses it. >> theafter a year and a half of seeking these records, we just got to the point whether or not they agreed to speed up the request for request, and we're tussling over that issue rather than the response of records. the bigger issue here this occurred with mitt romney's records, with sarah palin's e-mails, with republicans and democrats, when journalists ask for these records, whether e-mails or schedules or calendars, and often a journalist is faced with state agencies or the federal government, these restrictions
that either they say the records don't exist or it's going to cost you a lot of money so you better pony up. >> jack thank you very much for joining us tonight. we're joined now by a security expert who analyzed the internet records related to hillary clinton's server. those records were obtained by bloomberg news. the question alex is security. that's the one that i've been talking about from the start. going outside of the state department system setting up something at home like this, in your analysis, how secure was this? >> well, i think the cogent point here is one of her aides is not going to be able to maintain a secure server in a similar fashion than the state department. even if he did it to the best of his ability, the problem still remains, there's no one -- presumably there's nobody at the clinton staff or their house
who is constantly monitoring the server to see if it's been the victim of compromise. as a result, the security suffers. >> and on the encryption system that they used for it apparently they did not configure it very well. they just used the factory configuration, at least that's what it appears to be and you get that kind of system you're supposed to reset it to your own configuration so it isn't the factory default. >> yeah sort of. what we found is there are some e-mail records, she has an e-mail server and then a vpn, virtual private network. that allows you to have a device with a secure encrypted device to the server. if this is joined to another server you're able to retrieve your e-mail securely. what we found was that the certificate that a lot of your
viewers will be familiar with if you do any online banking or shops, that certificate was what was issued by the manufacturer. and their own documentation states, as soon as you get it, you're supposed to replace it with one that you purchase yourself. that didn't happen. if the configuration that we see now is reflective of the configuration she was using then. >> just as a final word on the security of it it's not something you would recommend a secretary of state use? >> no. i think it's absolutely ridiculous. we should not allow top government officials to say, you know what? i'm going to handle my own e-mail. not to besmirch their intelligence, but security is a very complex and difficult game to get into, especially when you need to defend against a nation state adversary. as a result, you just can't do it. it doesn't make sense. you need to have the
government's help to make this secure. >> thank you very much for joining us tonight. we're joined now by david axelrod, josh barrow and jennifer granholm. david, you worked in this administration. what was the policy of your administration involving e-mail like this? >> well there was a rigorous policy about using e-mail. people have private e-mail but government business was to be conducted on government e-mails. so i don't know what the policy was at the state department at the time. >> do you have any reason to think the policy at the state department was different from what you were told in the white house? >> i honestly don't know lawrence. i'm not trying to be coy about that. every agency is different. but let me just make a political point, if i can. i think the real issue here however this turns out, this
problem is being exacerbated by the lack of answers from the clinton campaign. it would be good to get out there and answer these questions, why did she use a separate e-mail how did she secure that e-mail was there another e-mail for which she communicated with people. by not answering these questions, they're allowing the story to fester in ways that are unhelpful and so you know lack of speed kills in this case. >> jennifer granholm since 2009, the national archives and records administration regulation says, agencies that allow employees to send and receive official electronic mail messages, that would be the state department using a system not operated by the agencies. if you do that you must ensure that federal records sent and received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate
agency recordkeeping system. and we don't see that that's what happened. we have no way of knowing now how many of hillary clinton's e-mails that were in that system were actually properly preserved. >> well the issue, lawrence is that what was the state department's proper recordkeeping system. what she did was follow the precedent that happened before which is that she did e-mail -- >> when there's a new regulation issued while you are secretary of state in 2009 you don't get to say, i'm doing what everyone before this regulation did. >> why not? >> because they just changed the regulation. if i raise your tax rate you don't get to say to me, i would like to pay the old one. >> lawrence if it worked for the previous administration, why not -- >> oh, listen that's a
ridiculous -- are you saying that you should just ignore all new regulations? >> no of course not. what she's saying is that she followed precedent, which is what was done before. in 2014 there was an amendment to that law to make it clearer, so there was an ambiguity in the law. but she did what secretary powell did and she has released 55,000 pages of e-mails pursuant to the state department -- >> how many did she not release? >> i don't know but the point is you've got -- lawrence i know this is a really big thing for the beltway crowd. i completely understand that. but you have a committee now that is asubpoenaing all these
e-mails. you start to go down this path and you have to treat one side the same as the other. and there is a lot of precedent on the other side for people to have private e-mails that are done because they don't want their private business being on government time. often it's because you don't want the taxpayers to pay for your private conversations. >> governor i'm going to talk about you now and then come back and give you a chance to respond. but what i just heard is what i don't believe governor granholm would be saying if this was a republican administration and not what i heard any democrat saying when chris christie was discovered using official e-mail. this strikes me of already the reaction to it is purely partisan.
if you support hillary clinton's candidacy, you're going to say there's nothing wrong here. but if we turn the tables and just put a republican name beside this story, totally different response. >> this story has been instructive. it's showing who will defend hillary clinton no matter what she does. you've read the rules. just this fall the state department requested those records but it went years. so who was running the state department during the period that regulation was supposed to be in place? hillary clinton. it was her job to get in compliance. >> governor granholm, we're going to take a break, come back and let you respond to what we just said here in new york. we'll be right back. (boy) i'm here! i'm here! (cop) too late. i was gone for five minutes! ugh! move it. you're killing me. you know what, dad? i'm good. (dad) it may be quite a while before he's ready, but our subaru legacy will be waiting for him. (vo) the longest-lasting midsize sedan in its class. the twenty-fifteen subaru legacy.
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e-mails. i mean what you're suggestion is that she didn't turn over everything, and she's getting subpoenaed over that. but if you're talking about one side and the other, then i'm curious as to whether you will see the republicans, you know jumping up and down about the republicans who have not turned over their private e-mails, too. this is a slippery slope for them as well. the bottom line is lawrence this issue is just not going to be something that voters are going to care about in 2016 whether the archives were kept in the right fashion or not. they care about jobs. they care about foreign policy. they're not going to care about this particular issue, which you're right, does bite both sides. >> david axelrod, the clintons have always been lucky in how clumsy their political opponents
are. here we have the benghazi committee going after these e-mails, and in a sense, it's that committee which has been discredited in the eyes of so many people already. >> no question about it. it's the longest running dry hole in history. no reason to believe that would change. again, look, i think lot of these -- i'm halfway between you and governor granholm in the sense i don't know that she turned over all the e-mails. i don't know whether she had another e-mail. i don't know why she didn't have an address at the state department that she used for secure congress. i don't know any of that. but it would behoove them to just answer those questions and get this behind them and not let it become a long running story. i agree with jennifer that i don't think this is going to be the issue that the election turns on. but these little things hijack the story for long periods of time unless you're responsive in a very quick way. and they've let this lapse for
several days now. >> governor granholm would you as a governor refused to have answered the question of why did you do this for this length of time? >> i don't think she has refused to answer the question. >> no she has. reporters are getting refusal to answer. let me just ask you, has "the new york times" asked hillary clinton, tried to ask hillary clinton why she did this and has she refused to answer? >> i know reporters have gone to her spokesperson and have not gotten answers about the justification, including they're emphatic about the fact when she e-mailed other people at the state department those e-mails were archived because those people used their state department e-mail addresses. but there's no answer when she e-mailed somebody outside of the agency. so david is right, we don't know whether she's turned over everything. she hasn't turned it over in a timely manner. you had places like the ap that were making requests going back
more than a year trying to get these records from the state department. the state department didn't have the records, so even if she's turned everything over now it's too late. >> jennifer one last word. >> i don't think it's too late. the ap should make and renew their request. they're in the right place. do it. >> thank you for joining me tonight. coming up the u.s. ambassador to south korea has just been attacked in south korea, attacked there by a man wielding a knife. we'll have the latest after this.
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breaking news from south korea. a few minutes ago, the president of south korea called an assault on the american ambassador there "an attack on the south korean and u.s. alliance. tonight, a man slashed the ambassador in the face. the attack happened at a breakfast event in seoul where it was just after 12:00 noon. the suspect was arrested and the state department says the ambassador's injuries are not life threatening. south korean media is reporting that the same suspect threw a stone at the japanese ambassador five years ago. up next the supreme court heard arguments today over some simple words that appear in the affordable care act.
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works! works? works. works. today, the united states supreme court considered what these six words mean. "an exchange established by the state." that's it. those are the words. the question before them is do those words actually mean an exchange established by the state or do they mean an exchange established by the state and/or the federal government? if they mean the latter why didn't congress simply include those words and/or the federal government in the affordable care act? plaintiffs in the supreme court today argued that because the law provides financial subsidies for the purchase of health insurance through "an exchange
established by the state" no one in states that did not establish such exchanges should be eligible for those subsidies. that would mean the subsidies would be denied to beneficiaries receiving them in 34 states. joining me now, author of "america's bitter pill money, politics, back room deals and the fight to fix our broken health care system." and also dr. zeke emanuel, chair of the medical ethics and health and policy at the university of pennsylvania. zeke, you were in the supreme court chamber today. what was your feeling about where the argument went and how much of the affordable care act will survive? >> well this isn't how much of the affordable care act will survive, because if it's ruled not unconstitutional but invalid, there goes the act in everything but 16, 17 states. so everything is on the line
here. i actually think the government did an extraordinarily good job, don verelli did a good job outlining why you have to read these words in context. and when you read them in context, it makes quite clear many other parts of the statute. if in fact it's only by the -- people in the state get subsidies, then it makes no sense to talk about exchanges that the federal government will set up because those exchanges are just shell games because no one would be a qualified individual buyer, and there would be no qualified insurance companies to sell in those exchanges by the definitions of exchanges and qualified individuals in those states. so you would actually have whole parts of the legislation that make no sense. he also pointed out, and justice kennedy picked this up that this actually threatens
federalism, because the federal government is really threatening to destabilize the entire insurance market in states and only with a very small phrase which, at the time no one understood as a threat. so that would not be -- that would be coersive of the state and justice kennedy sided with the government. >> they quoted jonathan gruber. let's listen to this. >> i think what's important to remember politically about this if you're a state and you don't set up an exchange that means your citizens don't get tax credits but the citizens still pay taxes to support this bill.
i hope that's enough political reality for states to realize there's billions at stake here. but once again, the politics can get ugly around this. >> so there's one of the architects of the bill saying this was very deliberate. it was a very deliberate financial incentive to put there. his statement makes perfect sense, but to give the full context of it shortly after that statement which he made in to 2012, two years later he said one of the greatest denials of what someone said i've ever head, he said -- >> listen i don't know what to say about that. >> i don't either. >> i spent hours interviewing jonathan, and i asked him about the difference between the state
exchanges and the federal and he never mentioned any of that. second, this is about legislative intent not about john gruber's intent. and he did not -- he was not an architect of this law. he was on the outside looking in much to his frustration the whole time. he ran economic models to figure out the cost of the law, and every economic model he ran, which i saw, assumed that all 50 states, the citizens in all 50 states would get the subsidies. now, zeke who has a dog in this hunt actually sounds like he was trained as a lawyer at harvard instead of a doctor. i think he got it exactly right. i don't have a dog in this hunt. i'm a reporter my book doesn't take sides on obamacare. there's a lot of criticism and praise of it. but this is a fairy tale that the plaintiffs have brought. all of my reporting, all of the members of the house and senate i talked to all of their
staffs, and i talked to them before this surprisingly became a piece of litigation that people were watching none of them said anything about the states that didn't set up an exchange losing their subsidies. this is pure myth. >> this has always read to me like what we call a drafting error. it happens all the time in this kind of legislation. it's fixed all the time in what they call a technical corrections bill. something the congress is now incapable of passing. >> it's not really a drafting error. >> for years they did technical corrections. >> you can argue it lacks clarity, that they could have said in the state instead of by the state. but it's not an error, because this is getting down into the weeds, but the word exchange is capitalized. as you know because you used to write legislation, when it's capitalized, there's a definition around it. the definition says the exchange is an exchange established by
the state or established by the federal government. >> zeke did the government make that -- what steve is saying which i think is crucial -- >> yes, they did. >> did they say that clearly today in front of the supreme court? >> don said it clearly and even more clearly, justice briar, in the second colloquy right out of the box in the first five minutes, made it very clear that the phrase that you quoted is only part of the phrase that in fact, it refers back to a definition and that definition of the exchange makes clear. it has the phrase "such exchange" and the such exchange includes both state and federal exchanges. >> i'm sorry, guys we're out of time. but it clearly turns on how many justices accept the way you just described it. that is the case.
>> i'm embarrassed this is even a case. it should they have have been a case. >> i think lit be 5-4 or 6-3. >> you want to do an official prediction? >> no. >> all right. thank you both for joining me tonight. coming up, the remarkable apology dr. ben carson has just issued for the remarkable thing he said earlier today about gay sex in prison.
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fight for his life but not his innocence. inside boston's federal courthouse dzhokhar tsarnaev made a stunning admission, it was him. he showed no emotion, as he faces 30 charges, many that could carry the death penalty. his lawyer acknowledged the bombings were misguided acts that were inexcusable and admitted the explosions extinguished three lives. among thoed victims, 8-year-old martin richard. prosecutors graphically detailed his death. taking the stand today rebecca gregory who lost her left leg. she remembers her son calling mommy, mommy, and said god, if this is it, take me. sidney said i was fading fast. survivor heather abbott wants to
see dzhokhar tsarnaev punished. >> it's important somebody like that is they have out in the public again. >> reporter: the jury will be shown photographs of the defendant placing the bomb in the crowd, adding he believed he was a soldier in a holy war against americans. the defense tried to shift the blame to his older brother who died when he was run over by his younger brother during a shootout with police insisting it was his brother who self-radicalized. >> the best chance they have to generate sympathy is this relationship with the brother. >> reporter: after police cornered dzhokhar tsarnaev hiding in this boat police found a message. i ask allah to make me a martyr offering what they say is a motive for the attack. he thought it would help secure
him a place in paradise. the real question dominating this trial is whether dzhokhar tsarnaev should be put to death. as a member of the defense team said earlier this week this case is all about the sentencing. lawrence? >> peter alexander, thanks. coming up republican darling dr. ben carson issued an apology tonight that will set a high standard for all of the other presidential candidates a standard that few or none of them will meet. which saves paper, which saves money. they have smart online tools so you only pay for what's right for you which saves money. they settle claims quickly which saves time, which saves money. they drive an all-hybrid claims fleet which saves gas, which saves money. they were born online, and built to save money, which means when they save, you save. because that's how it should work in the modern world. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call. ideas come into this world ugly and messy.
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times" josh. what i'm struck by is just the unqualified nature of this apology. politicians don't apologize that way. they always couch it if they apologize at all. >> as he says he's not a politician. this is one of the reasons he's not ultimately going to be a serious contender. he's going to get in all sorts of distractions. but what strikes me about the statement he made and the apology is he's talking about gay people as a theoretical idea like maybe he saw "oz" on hbo and he's heard about gay people and thought about their rights. but if you know gay people in your everyday life and they're around you and you have talked to them about their values and interests and how they came to realize they were gay, this isn't the sort of mistake you would make in an off the cuff remark. so i think it reflects the fact thats a lbgt people look at him, there aren't a lot of gay people in the republican primary, but it sent a signal that he doesn't
really know gay people. >> and the issue, it's also about how alive any question involving gay people is in the republican party. it's just something that they're always going to go in some odd direction. let's listen to what jeb bush told sean hannity about it. >> gay marriage, are you changing your position this >> no i believe in traditional alal marriage. >> and they're going to go down with that sinking ship as long as it's around. >> but the ship may not be rnld very long. jeb bush has changed his position. 20 years ago, he was talking about how we shouldn't be sanctioning sodomy. so he just hired an openly gay communications director. even though he's out there saying i support traditional marriage, checking the pox in the republican primary. i think the question for
republicans is if we get a supreme court ruling that brings gay marriage throughout the country, how much pressure is there for resistance? you're seeing in alabama you have republican politicians trying to hang on to opposition to gay marriage. but that's been the exception rather than the rule. i think we're seeing a sigh of relief from republican officials when a court finally rules against them that they can take this issue off the table. >> in general, the elected officials love it when a court reaches in and removes their authority and therefore any responsible. >> yeah they get to say i did my best. but this is out of my hands now. but we are seeing the counterfactual to that in alabama where you've seen elected officials and state court officials acting out, acting contrary to federal courts issuing rulings that have put officials in a difficult position. you could see states taking action like that. but in general, this issue is going to be de-emphasized for
republicans. coming up the genius of a young husband and father as he approaches what might soon be the end of his life. good job. nice coating. and get this one next. whoa! what are you guys doing? making sure nothing sticks. otherwise, we gotta scrub all this stuff off. huh, what? nobody thought of this before? what's wrong with people? dish issues? not with improved cascade platinum. it powers through... your toughest, starchy messes... better than finish's best... the first time. as if your dishes were non-stick. cascade. now that's clean. (mom) when our little girl was born we got a subaru. it's where she said her first word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what? (announcer) the 2015 subaru forester (girl) what?
president obama and first lady michelle obama along with president george bush will visit selma, alabama this saturday to mark the 50th anniversary of the bloody sunday civil rights march. the president will deliver remarks at the bridge. the director of the film "selma" will be there with them and she will be here with us tomorrow night. we'll be right back. it's a fact. kind of like shopping hungry equals overshopping.
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was that you jason? it was geoffrey! it was jason. it could've been brenda. this week is msnbc's seven days of genius. one of the characteristics is the ability to see things right in front of us that the rest of us don't see. that's how this neuro surgeon sees life and death. >> clocks are now kind of irrelevant to me. time we're used to having the linear progression to it. now it feels more like space. in the life of a neurosurgery resident, time is linked to progress. as the numbers on the clock increase so too should your progress toward some goal. i first began noticing symptoms
in hi sixth year of residency. i had a full body ct scan and there were lesions all over the place. obviously, we were very suspicious i had some form of cancer, but having the confirmation is still devastating. and so we were in that hospital room and we just kind of laid there and cried a little bit. and then called my parents, my brothers. after finishing chemotherapy and coming out of the hospital and entering this recuperative phase, time is very different where i'm not thinking about how 15 minutes is going to contribute to some greater
productivity. verb conjugation is difficult for me. i finished training so i am a neurosurgeon. i'm not practicing currently. if i get better i plan on getting back to clinical medicine. so in that sense, i will be a surgeon, or i won't depending on how things go. so i don't know what the correct tense to use is. i am, i was, i will be, i have been. certainly medical training is very future oriented, because it's all about the way of gratification, so you're always thinking about five years down the line what you're going to be doing. five years down the line i don't know what i'll be doing. i may be dead i may not be. so it's not all that useful to
spend time thinking about the future beyond much. since katie's birth, my time with her has had a very peculiar and free nature. in all probability i won't live long enough for her to remember me or have any clear memory of me. and so the time is what it is. which is fun, because she's a really good baby. >> when he got his diagnosis, he became obsessed with the big question, the big question that floats in the back of all of our minds, how long have i got left? he believed if he knew the answer to that question he would know what to do with the rest of his life. if it was weeks, he would spend all of his time with his family and loved ones. if it was a year he would write a book. if it was five years he would go back to work. but his doctor told him that there was no way to know the
exact time. in an essay in "the new york times" he wrote -- >> in the current issue of stanford medicine magazine he teaches us things we should already know about what we should value and what matters most in our lives. things that he can see so clearly now as he approaches the end of life. the article titled "before i go," ends this way.
in this time. right now. that is an enormous thing. tonight, on "all in," the department of justice report on ferguson is out. >> it is time for ferguson's leaders to take immediate wholesale and structural corrective action. >> tonight, inside the federal government's jaw dropping findings of system attic discrimination in an american city. then, it's like 1998 all over again. >> why would i -- >> the latest on the clinton e-mail mess. plus, it's like 200 all over again. >> it does appear to be a 5-4 opinion. >> why today's supreme court obamacare arguments could be