tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC March 13, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
he is a chameleon, and he has yet another rural personality to add to quail and palin and w. and he has certainly got the cheerleaders lined up and so this has been "hardball" with chris matthews and next is chris hayes with "all in." the bottom line is that jeb bush is pro-gay. >> the anti-right is jeb bush. >> this disqualifies jeb bush from consideration for the gop nomination. >> tonight, why it appears that 2016's allegedly gay-friendly candidate is starting to pander to the base. >> then what is rudy talking about? >> it is an african-american president stood up and said -- i hate to mention it because of what happened afterwards -- the kind of stuff that bill cosby said. and plus new video from the
boston bombing trial, and can dzhokhar tsarnaev's strategy work work? and plus -- ♪ tap along if you feel that the room without a roof sfoet ♪ -- >> and marvin gaye's family sets its sight on the new blurred line verdict. >> and we are will talk to the man behind the verdict. "all in" starts right now. i'm chris hayes. and building a campaign behind jeb bush behind the republican campaign that was once a unifying issue, gay rights. today, the man giving a a speech right now was hailed by buzzfeed last month as the gay-friendly republican thanks to who he has hired. be bush's campaign manager in waiting david kotchle has been
an out outspoken fan of marriage equality, and his manager is tim miller who is openly gay. that is not significant, and rememberb that mitt romney's outspoken manager tim grin nell stepped down after two weeks because of the massive amount of blowback that he was getting from the social konconservatives from hiring a openly gay adviser, and now jeb bush has hired a openly gay adviser, and now, this is a big "but" it is still the gop. ben car zn who recently offered this theory on human sexuality. >> you think that being gay is a choice? >> absolutely. >> why do you say that? >> because people who go into prison go into prison straight and they come out gay. did something happen while they were in there? >> just asking the questions. carson later apologized for jeb bush because of the opinions on
gay rights. and joining jay seculo is the pat robertson foundation of law and justice has worked through a outspoken outpost to keep gay rights a illegal post in zimbabwe and filed a brief to keep homosexuality a illegal act. and he had no comment to us but he did say that through dan savage i hope that we can show good respect for all sides on the gay and lesbian issue. but be clear, that jeb bush says that he is a stanch supporter, and we should be respectful of
the states. and if you are in mississippi or other states, then you should respect the state's ruling on the matter. and of course, bush is far too tolerant for conservatives like brian fisher of the american family association who is incensed that he has hired staffers who support gay staffers. >> but the bottom line here ladies and gentlemen is that jeb bush is pro-gay. jeb push be has come out unapologetically as an advocate for the homosexual, andly tell you that this disqualifies jeb bush from consideration for the gop nomination. i think that there is no conservative, there is no conservative who can look at these hires, and say that jeb bush is the guy who going to be representing pro-family values as the president. joining me now is josh barrow, the correspondent for the upshot of "the new york times," and josh, this is going to be interesting how the circle
is squared in the 2016 campaign as all of this change is happening in the public opinion more broadly, but the gop base is still the gop base. >> well, a lot of the circle leis to be squared by the supreme court. >> and so key. >> and yes if we get a ruling in the next few months legalizing the gay marriage in the whole country, this issue is going to be taken off of the country, and the pattern of the supreme court or the federal courts in the state legalize the same-sex marriage, they can say well, i try and nothing more to do and chris christie walked away without appealing it through the courts that he could have and you have seen the republican candidates taking a sigh of relief. you will have a residual issues of who has to bake a wedding cake for whom and so there is residual issues and talk about it in the campaign, but gay issues will loom smaller than they have in recent years. >> this is a key issue, because it is a fight that the republicans are wanting to pick
to a fight they are happy to lose. the resounding substantive and the ideological repudiation of opposition to gay marriage is going to be the biggest possible political boon to republicans, because they don't have to walk through the campaign with a massively unpopular position. >> and republicans with who work through the living are going to be welcome to the site. and people who seriously oppose the gay marriage are resigned to the fact that they will lose the fight, and not like abortion that the people in the republican base are so morally outraged by abortion, and the public opinion has not moved for 40 year, and see it as a live fight, and that is going to be fought over, and if they support gay marriage, a lot of them are go ing to be seeing that the public is against them and they will not be be winning politically, and they are go ging to give in politically in a lot of cases. >> we are going to see if it is "loving v. virginia" or roe v.
wade. and so one of them the "loving v virginia" and nobody saying that we need to overturn it, but roe v. wade is still the point of the cultural battle 30 years later. >> yes and it is going to be "loving v virginia." it is going to be be a top staffer that you will see all of the time. >> and on the cable news. >> and dealing with the outside groups, and it is something that would have been, and gotten a lot of the blowback four years earliers as we saw with rick grin grinnell who had issues with a lot of people. >> and that guy -- >> yes, exactly, but a big problem for the campaign for him was being openly gay, and i have seen very little blowback and it is telling to go to bryan phisher for these the quotes. >> who does not have a number of constituency. constituency.
>> and he is the only talk show host who is the only talk show host who is being outraged. and there is no conservative who tells me that they love to listen to bryan bryan fisher. >> and he can stiff armr the candidates more than any other candidates can jeb bush. >> well we will see how much he can afford to stiff arm the base. and he is mostly hiring the people who are worth hiring in the republican staff base. a and he is cocky in some spaces. spaces. >> and he is talk tact common core in some place, and we will talk about it more when we figure out how to show on it television. thank you, josh barro. >> thank you. and now shgs, as josh said, we
can see that the republicans have fallen back on the terrain of cultural war to opt out of religion to opt to treat people equally. and laws of exemptions have been passed in 20 states with exemptions written by a small kaud ri and now in georgia, the most e egregious yet. the georgia freedom freedom restoration act. and what does this mean exact lyly? it means that according to the daily beast, that restaurants could refuzse to serve couples, and hotels could keep out jews, and housing developments could keep out black people, and pharmacies could refuse to dispense birth control, and schools could refuse to keep out anti-bullying, and joining h me is the georgia democrat stacy abrams, and the georgia house minority leader. representative abrams, that is hyperbolic hyperbolic, and can the bill be as bad as described in the quote
quote? >> i don't think it is as bad, but it is really really close. one of the things that is really interest interesting is is that one of the letters in wickins saying thank you to skroe sefjoseph wickins saying thank you for the scope of the bill. >> and so what is the deal here because religious freedom is fine, but how big is the exemption carved out for folks to cite the religion to not do some service in the public space? >> the problem with sb-129 is that sitit is a martyr in search of an oppressor, and it is a bill that says that if you is a e religious belief and we don't define religion, you don't have to comply with the certain laws unless the government can prove that it is really, really necessary, and it sets a different standard in the state law than we have currently, and it sets a standard that are
already in place by federal protection, and it can be brought forth by the authors of the legislation. >> we sauw the business community in arizona rally to get governor brewer to veto the religious freedom in arizona, and what is the current state of the politics in this legislation ta has a broader scope than anything else that has been passed anywhere else? >> it does. the business community has been watching its movement. the house actually just adjourned our crossover day, and so our version of the house did not move out of the committee, and the senate version did move and crossed over and sent to the committee that refused to hear our version, and so the pressure brought the bear by the business community, and the lgbt community, and the faith commit committee that does oppose the bill in some quarters will combine to stop the bill, but it is not over until the last day of the session. >> and do the georgia republicans view this fight around the religious freedom as a fight where they have the wind
at their backs in the way that they might have viewed a marriage equality fight say 10 or 12 years ago? >> i think some of them do. the hard core group that is real areally pressing the bill believes that but to your point, if you look at the business community, and the moderate republicans and biz business-minded republicans, they saw what happened in arizona, and heard about the businesses pulling out, and the franchises saying that we are not going to with come, and the business community and the republican part of the party that says that they are supposed to be pro business will eschew trying to move the bill forward. >> and finally, how does it look as this issue plays out as we look toward 2016 awaiting the supreme court to look forward to this this, how does the issue look toward the red state of georgia dominated by the conservatives and the republicans, and how does it play out over the next year? >> i think that this will a actually have its death knell by the end of april. when our legislative session
ends, it is going to be tend of the conversation, and it is the last gasp with what is ahead of the supreme court, and most people on the side of the aisle will validate gay marriage, and while this is an expansive bill that goes with beyond the four corners of we hate gays, the expansive nature has terrified enough people whether you are pro lgbt or not, nobody wants this bill to be atoned here in georgia, because we understand that it has the ability to harm not only the communities they are attacking, but to harm a vast range of communities that we have not anticipated. >> thank you house minority leader stacy abrams. and this week there was a statement that said that president obama shone should be more more like bill cosby. what the heck is wrong with rudy
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and now this vine from vice president joe biden. yeah, yeah, i do a million of these a day, so just give me five. >> can we talk about how great it is that the up yon joe biden is now affecting the way that the real joe biden affects the real image. he is part of the first lady's let's move campaign. and the vine says that the first lady is to encourage people to give high fives when they see somebody making a healthier challenge. there may be a big skand canal brewing, because some people on the internet are paying attention, because they say that vice president joe biden is doing four curls instead of five. so weightgate is probably the best news h hillary clinton has said. >> i could do a million of these all day. >> wow! rocks, man.
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fresh off of the assertion last month that the barack obama does not love america, former mayor rudy giuliani has another take on president barack obama, he should be like another former black man -- wait for it -- bill cosby. >> 70% of the homicides in new york city are committed by african-american african-american, and that there are many, many extremely many understandable for historically and environmentally, and if an african-american president stood
up and said, and hate to mention it because of what happened afterwards, but the kinds of stuff that billkozby used to say, this is our responsibility. >> and he he hates to say it but the press finally paying attention to public allegations against bill cosby which dates back to 2005 which he has consistently denied, but last year with literally dozens of women coming forward with allegations that they were drugged and rape edd by the comedian, and they paint a pik picture of a monstrous behavior and though he has never been charge and he continued to deny all allegations against him, cosby has experienced a fall from grace and what has happened before is that most of us have never heard the allegations against him, cosby has held himself up as the or orbiter of morale probitty.
>> we knew how to protect our children, and today, in some lower economic communities, and some people and not all, but some people are not contribute ing to the protection, and the character correction has not happened. many times, it is the tv set of b.e.t. or the videos played and the kids look at it. they admire it. >> and according to mayor rudy giuliani, that one, and not the one who is standing accused of sexual assault as recently of 2008, that is the example who president obama should follow. i am joined by jeffrey keyes, who is a congressman who represents that part of queen ss,
and what do you think of former mayor giuliani's suggestion? >> this falls under the category of you cannot make this stuff up. now, mayor giuliani has completely lost koncontrol. i have survived eight years of him at the helm, and he is widely known for the mean spiritedness, but this is something else and it requires clinical intervention and he is involving references to p bill cosby, and the facts are important, and clearly he has not paid attention to the facts. since president obama has stepped foot at 1600 pennsylvania avenue he has talked about responsibility to the african-american community particularly in relation to the black fathers, and fathers who
have not been actively involved in their children's lives. this took place to some degree of regular lyly father's day, and in fakt in fact, there were some accusing the president of being too harsh. >> many who said that he was playing a ridiculous game of responsibility politics that harkened back to the pound cake speech of a man named bill cosby who was going around the country to telling people to pull their pants up. >> that is correct. and the president has been balanced with the approach. he recognizes that there are historical issues, and understands that the overwhelming number of people in the african-american citizens are contributing to great country, and there sis a small fraction of people who have not been displaying responsibility and engaging in irresponsible acts. and former mayor giuliani is
failing to commit that most of the acts of violence are committed by white americans. certainly the black on black crime needs to be fixed, but this race baiting that mayor giuliani is engaged in is beneath the former office that he has held and shows a sad des redation in terms of the persona. >> what is he doing? i am worried about the role that former mayor giuliani has car canved out for himself in terms of the scourge of the black lives matter movement, and in terms of the protestres that we have been seeing across the country demanding equality and accountability? >> well, this is not inconsistent with rudy
giuliani's up fortunate history as you will recall chris n the first campaign in 1989 when he ran against david dinkins, and there was a lot of the concern with the coded language that was used and not just by candidate giuliani but by many of the supporters, and he infamously appear appeared at a police riot that took place in front of city hall. it was widely characterized as such in the dinkins administration when some members of the nypd gather eded at city hall, and some in mob-like fashion, and rudy giuliani gave a red-meat type of speech there, and there have been many other instances where he has displayed insensitivity or the irresponsibility in the mayorship, but what is happening here is the quest for relevance, and it is unfortunate in the manner in which he has communicated over the last few
weeks. >> congressman hakeem jefferies, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> fresh off of the victory in the blurred line trial marvin gaye's estate may have their eyes set on another hit of pharrell williams. sunday dinners at my house... it's a full day for me, and i love it. but when i started having back pain my sister had to come help. i don't like asking for help. i took tylenol but i had to take six pills to get through the day.
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a interest in. this one, black lives matter, and this is borne out of the shooting of unarmed michael brown in ferguson, missouri. and this is after a series of black men were killed, eric garner, and tamir rice, and last week tony robinson in madison, wisconsin, and one such protest took place in last december when over 1,000 people took over the mall of america in bloomington, minnesota, in the peak of holiday shopping season. >> black lives matter! >> reporter: hundreds of protesters take over the rotunda in the black lives matter movement. police arrested 12 protesters at the mall of america today, and they told the protesters they could not enter the building because it is a private business, and they did offer a neighboring parking lot, but it did not stop hundreds inside and thaey they were there until they
were forced out by the police. >> and it forced a surreal scene, and this said that it is a demonstration that is not authorized by the mall of america, and those who do not disburse will be arrested. along with that warning came a heavy police presence and along with security guards hire ed byd by the mall. but they were not the only federal agencies involved. the the intercept says that members of the fbi joint terrorism task force tracked the event. and it was sent to a task force source about the time and the location and a joint terrorism task force described that they were the front line on terrorism, and a minneapolis spokesperson said that they had
the information to pass p it on to the bloomington police department as it pertained to the potential criminal activity, and the potential criminal active activity was according to the intercept vandalism. and in boston as the fbi was receiving information about tamerlan tsarnaev as he was funded by hundreds of grants he was monitoring wall street demonstrations and then as he killed three people and injured hundreds more, he is on trial now in boston. the evidence in front of the jury is next. ely uncover, discuss and debate investment opportunities.
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tsarnaev were denied. the attorneys claim that police failed to justify the findings and pete williams has this report. >> reporter: police showed these surveillance from dozens of cameras. they say that dzhokhar is with his older brother tamerlan with bombs in the backpack. they say that the key evidence is surveillance evidence from boylston street. they sew dzhokhar with the backpack and make a cell phone and then leave without the backpack and then seconds later, a second bomb goes off with where he was stand ging. and that is him standing in the crowd, and then his backpack can be seen resting on the sidewalk. and then tsarnaev makes a phone call to his brother, the fbi
says, and then walks a away, and then comes the searing white hot flash of the bomb. the witness after witness describes the chaos. as the first responders rushed over the barriers to the blast site to help the injured, the fbi says this surveillance shows him running away from the scene, and then half an hour later, with the amputation of victims he e was calmly shopping for milk and working out at a gym. >> he has been charged with 30 counts of conspiracy to use a deadly weapon, and conspiracy to bomb a public place to cause death. he has plead not guilty, but in the opening statement his attorney said that it was him, and she explained the tactic in this way, the lawyers in certain cases say that there was guilt, but arguing that someone else
deserves more of the blame. explain that unusual strategy let's bring in former public defender and professor of the column and author of "indefensible." i don't understand why he would not take a plea. >> well, that is the question chris. he has plead guilty and he has conceded functionally his guilt and he has done it tactically. >> and so with what do you mean by that? i guess that the question is if you get up in the opening statements of a trial of your client in which basically everyone can see that he is guilty on the videotape, and you, yourself, say that he is guilty, what are you doing in the trial? what case are you putting on? >> that is true and you have to
understand the particular mek mechanics of the case and that it is a death penalty case, and he has no choice. he has plead guilty for life, and he has no other choice but to go to trial. and that means that the strategy of the defense here is to try to avoid death. one of the ways to do that is to essentially concede the guilt phase and focus on the penalty phase. there are a bunch of advantages to that. >> okay. so what are the advantages? i guess that the advantage is that you can start to make the penalty case, and in capital murder cases you have a guilt phase, and then penalty phase of should this person live or die, a ndnd you are saying that they can get a head start on penalty phase and use the guilt phase for that? >> yes, three things. by pleading not guilty you can preserve the rights to appeal. and there are existential issues like venue, and if you plead not
guilty, that is one reason to do it, because if you don't, you will not. and so secondly, you want the maintain your credibility with the jury. it is crazy if you say he is not guilty guilty, and he is not guilty, and now that you found him guilty, and he was guilty, and now let's argue about the death. >> right. >> and instead, you are a much more credible advocate with the jury if you kcan be up front with the jurors. and then a third thing if you want. >> yes, please. >> okay. so the third thing, and the best way to describe the third thing is that in reference to the horror stories or movies that you vhave seen. and everybody has seen something gruesome and the first time you see it is utterly shock inging, but the second time, it is shocking, but less shocking, but the third or the fourth or the fifth time you become used to it, and there is an enormous amount of gruesome evidence in the case and by challenging the guilt
phase and by previewing the evidence that would be coming in, in the penalty phase anyway, you will get a jump on the jury getting used to what they will see. and there is a gap, a temporal gap between when they see it, right, and the time that they have to decide the big question in the case, live or die. >> all right. now i think that i understand it. david, thank you. >> my pleasure. and now, we bring in the story of the man who as never backed down. he has donned the most powerful shoes in the world, and he has donned on shoes with blades on them, and now shoes with cleats on them, and we will tell you why. so cigna's got your back and your knees, 24/7. cigna's there to answer your questions. or when you need some coaching. in sickness and in health, cigna's there, helping you to get well and stay well. that's having a partner,
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a federal jury says that one of the decade's biggest hits "blurred lines" infringed on the marvin gaye's "got to give it up" in all marvin gaye's family was given $7.1 mill -- 7.3 million 8 million from robin thicke and 1.6 million from pharrell williams. >> they thought that we couldn't prove it but they were wrong. >> and now the gaye family is deciding if they should go after another one of pharrell's hits.
and gaye's daughter says i ain't going to lie, i do believe they sound alike. ♪ it may sound crazy what i'm about to say ♪ ♪ oh you do me wrong but still i'm crazy about you ♪ >> now from the amateur perspective those songs don't sound a lot alike to me, and on tuesday today a song of williams' "blurred lines" and "got to give it up" prompted headlines like blurred lines is got to give it up even if you hate robin thicke. and this is why jeff parrot said that there is no case there, but they said that there are stylistic similarities in the
drum and the cowbell patterns and joining me is the man behind the cowbell pattern, the legendary percussionist in marvin gaye's "got to give it up" and mr. ashford, thank you for joining us and i want to get your opinion on the verdict, but tell me how you went to create that distinctive sound that is the anchor of "got to give it up." >> well, at motown, we were known for creating different things for sound in order to fit the rhythm that we made. like we had tire chains, and things like that, that we would experiment with. so i was accustomed to looking for the new sounds. and so when we were in the studio doing "got to give it up" marvin wanted a cowbell sound, and i didn't have a cowbell. so i used something else. and so, when i got finished with that, he said, what else you got in the bag? i said i have a instrument here
that i play here, and i have never played it before but i think that it will fit this song so i came up with another sound called the hotel sheet. everybody flipped out with it, and it worked and so we put it out, and of course, it is history now. >> can you show me what you mean by that, because you were doing it in the commercial break. >> mardon? >> can you snow me, but a you were doing it there. >> absolutely. you want to the play some of the track. >> all right. ♪ >> so is that sound actually in the track? >> it is in the second part of that song. >> fantastic! and now, let me ask you this, the cowbell, and the distinctiveness of the cowbell and the roomy sound of the recording a recording, and the syncopation of the beat and the baseline and all of these are reasons that the two songs sounded alike, and
originally you didn't think that they did, but they did, and what changed your mind? >> well shgs, the thing that is that everybody who writes the song is is going to sound like somebody else's, because you have so many chord, and when he talked about how he loved marvin's music, and paraphrasing, and got so close, and some of the things that he said in the adulation of what mar marvin had done back in the day showed that he was more influenced than was necessary to let go as not being a copy of what he was listening to. we are all you know as a author, we all listen to other people's music. i listen to his music, and if you incorporated some of the things that marvin had in his version, you would have seen a closer similarity between the two songs. because you only dealing with the rhythm, and you know, feels good, and that is what you get. and at one time when they
determined what was plagiarism and what wasn't, it is the melody. if you wrote the melody too close, then the melody would determine if you had copied the song. well, as things went melody. as things went on they had to get rid of melody because songs didn't even have it they only had lyrics. so i think they came up with some of the staples by the author of "blurred lines." >> that is a fascinating point. that gets to our next point with our next guest, which part is copyrighted. i went to a recording studio for myself last week to see if the gaye family really had a case.
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at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like shopping hungry equals overshopping. playing the original pre percussion on that track. assured me there was no case and tim, professor of columbia law school, what happened buddy? >> i got it wrong. >> maybe you were right and the jury got it wrong. >> the case got played out like
a personality contest. and i think the hubris of robin thicke and pharrell. >> people are mad at me for saying i think it is a bad verdict between marvin gaye is beloved. and they basically, as you heard jack ashford just say when i initially heard the songs, i didn't think there was an issue, but then when i heard them talking about how much they love marvin gaye. >> you say that it is essentially legally garbage. >> i think the judge made a mistake. he lied to oprah winfrey, it is over for robin thicke. you see that the family now is
saying we own all of these songs. >> why should i care. what is the stakes? >> for a famous artist it is not a big deal and for someone new, maybe the style of the rolling stones, they will get sued right away? it's a serious issue. >> and jack was sort of saying that right? you made a point to me in the studio that it has to be the notes, can we look at the baseline for a second. when i saw this the baseline was one of the things that they contended were ripped off, but they're not the same baseline. just as a factual matter. look at them, those are not the same. but the rhythms were the same. if you look the drum and cow
bell batters, they will line up. >> and the reason is why? >> that's a goo we. the tune of the song. i think this starts a good conversation. so i think that it is time for a conversation about the way the song was recorded. the studio production style for it. why is style an important thing to defend from copyright essentially. >> everyone has a style. say they're writing a fantasy
book -- you don't copy jr tolken. they say when you do that was that owned by someone else it is creative freedom. >> part of the issue -- >> admittedly trying to do it. >> the same law for them applies to everybody. >> i don't care about them nobody likes them. >> i love how america has suddenly come together -- everyone was like danced to the song played the zonk the song is a banger and now we're all like it is a weird national hangover where it is like a tryst we were embarrassed about. >> you can't let the law depend on what their personalities are like.
>> does this jury have any -- are jury findings -- does this affect how the law is interrupted going forward? >> i don't think so. it may propertympt them to get a jury too. >> but it's like is he the same -- >> well yeah. i saw that line right? >> that is the difficulty. what is style and what is direct imitation? >> a lot of people are trying to create stuff. they need styles. if somebody owns everything there's not any place for the new guy to go. >> we care about the possibility for folks, and we care about this world is so kind of bounded by will people settle what
matters more from a standpoint -- >> yeah it's about what looks good. the "rachel maddow show" starts now. >> happy friday to you. this is the week when democrats started expressing public anxiety with her apparently having already locked up the nomination already. with a little political wobble that derived this week from the "new york times" revelations about her personal e-mail account as secretary of state with the media losing their mind about that story. what the clinton camp perceived today have