tv The Ed Show MSNBC March 26, 2015 2:00pm-3:01pm PDT
r now today. the ed show is up next. good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show". live from new york let's get to work. tonight new details about the copilot behind the germanwings crash. zblf this was mass murder and the weapon was an aircraft. >> plus the new grassroots effort to defeat fast track. >> critics say it's going to be a corporate rights and decrease sovereign rights. >> and later the miseducation of ted cruz. >> nothing like the warm embrace of the mainstream media. >> good to have you with us tonight. folks, thanks for watching. here in new york city we are following breaking news. take a look at this dramatic live scene in manhattan's east village after a building collapse. the fire department of new york is trying to contain a fire that has already critically injured three people, a dozen people are being treated for injuries. we're going to keep an eye on this throughout the show bring you the latest developments and we'll have a live report from the scene here at the ed show tonight.
but first we start with the developments of the crash of germanwings flight 9525. it is almost unreal. officials in france said today that the copilot locked the cabin out of the cockpit and deliberately crashed the plane. the voice recorder revealed the copilot was breathing normally until the moment of impact. it suggested he was conscious and deliberately killed 144 passengers and five other crew members in an act of mass murder. >> here's what we know right now. the copilot, andreas lubitz seen in this photo, was in the cockpit alone. >> there must have been a cascading and escalading terror. >> investigators confirm the pilot was locked out and trying to reenter the cockpit. >> translator: and then we started hearing banging. someone actually trying to break the door down. >> the plane was in a rapid
decent from 38,000 feet but at a controlled speed. >> translator: i think the victims probably only realized what was going on really at the last minute. in the data that we can listen to you can only hear cries right at the end, right before the point of impact. >> there were no distress calls or communication with air traffic control from the cockpit, meanwhile inside the cabin, terrifying chaos. >> but as this began escalating fear has definitely entered into the equation and panic. towards the end, it was sheer desperation and panic. >> copilot andreas lubitz reportedly had no history of mental illness. today the ceo of lufthansa airlines says he was 100% fit to fly. just like all modern commercial aircraft. there is a key pad outside the door which can unlock the door
via pilot or flight attendant with a preset code. the pilot of germanwings flight was trying to unlock the door. the copilot can manually override the code which he did, with a button in the cockpit. this video from airbus shows how the captain would have tried to access the congress p it. >> on the code patch he enters the the emergency code and then presses the hash key. this triggers the timer for 30 seconds. the green light on the code pad flashes, indicating imminent unlocking. in the cockpit, the buzzer sounds continuously and the open light flashes, also indicating imminent unlocking. when the elapsed time is over with no action from the cockpit crew, the door goes into unlocking sequence for five seconds. the green light on the pad remains steady. the open light comes on for five second during the unlocking sequence and the buzzer stops, indicating the door is unlocked. the person now has five seconds
to enter the cockpit. >> so the question tonight, could this disaster have been possibly avoided? rules and regulations about having two people in the cockpit at all times could have prevented the crash. that's the rule here in the united states. and we know throughout history disasters have occurred. regulators always step in. let's go back 100 years. the titanic sank in 1912. a number of vessels were nearby but didn't hear the radio operator distress call because they were asleep. lives could have been saved if these ships had heard the distress calls. in the wake of the sinking of the titanic, the government established the radio act of 1912. new rules required ships to have radio operators awake at sea 24 hours a day. later, years later, the radio act became the federal communications commission. the triangle shirt waste factory fire here in 1911 killed 146 people. wednesday, just recently marked
the 104th anniversary of the fire. it was one of the deadliest industrial disasters in u.s. history. the reason so many people were killed was due to the number of exits being locked to prevent theft. after the fire roughly 30 labor related laws were passed by new york state. this disaster has been credited with the developing of a new model for work safety in the the united states. and of course the biggest game changer here in america was 911. the terrorist attacks brought us body scanners reinforced cockpit doors, enhanced screening of passengers increased sky marshals in the tsa and the department of homeland security was the largest rearrangement of security and government in this country. since these new regulations went into effect no u.s. airlines have been hijacked. already the airline industry is responding to this disaster in the french alps. just today norwegian air and
easy jet out of britain would announce they would require two people in the cockpit at all times. the ceo of lufthansa responded to that question today at a press conference. >> i don't see any need to change our procedures at this very point. this is a single occasion. but as i mentioned before in germany, we will get together with the various experts in the lufthansa airlines with the authorities in the german government to see if the procedures can be refined. we will not jump into short notice activities. >> so you might be wondering what the copilot would have had to go through to take this aircraft down at 4,000 feet a minute. well, it's really pretty simple. he only had to do four things and he could have done it in a matter of seconds. this is the flight management system. this is the auto pilot. all he had to do was change the preselect of the altitude. go from 38,000 just select it
digitally, to 6,000 feet. then he could have which he would have done because of the decent of the aircraft, is preselect the decent rate. you can select at 500 feet a thousand feet. 2500 feet a minute. this had a steady decent of 4,000 feet a minute. and then all he would have to do is frompress the button and watch the rest of your life go by. and that's exactly what happened. farce the as far as the tsa is concerned, the air traffic controllers, i'm not sure which center was in control. but if it was paris center it would have sounded something like this once he left 38,000 feet without clearance. it would have been the air traffic controller saying flight 9525 say altitude. flight 9525 say altitude. flight, 9525 do you copy? and then of course they would have taken action in the control tower, and of course that story
will come out later on. for more, let me bring in captain tom d airline pilot. and anthony davis, aviation expert and pilot. great to have all of you with us tonight. mr. bunn, i'll start with you. he had to go through a short series of things to control this aircraft to do it. what do you think happened? >> he didn't have to do a lot of thinking about it. it's second nature to control the airplane however you want to do it. just as you said you just dial the numbers in hit it to execute, and that's it. could we do more? could this have been prevented? >> yes, our procedures would have preventeded this.
everybody else is immediately adopting these. and he says we're going to think about it. >> mr. fife what are your thoughts now that this information has come in that this pilot acted the way he did? obviously the voice recorders brought us all of this information. this is something for the archives. very, very strange. >> absolutely. and now the question for the investigators is how long has this pilot been thinking about doing this? what motivated this pilot, and was this an autonomous act? was it solely this pilot because of personal problems or is this part of a bigger plan? a more nefarious plan and showing weakness in the system. did he lose his girlfriend? did he have financial problems? did he experiment with drugs? all of these things are going to investigated, aren't they? >> they would have to be. when i worked on the investigation in p indonesia, one of the things we went to look at, of course, was the pilot's background.
we saw that he had a lot of personal issues going on. we had a very dire financial situation. he had some issues with his employer as a captain as a small airline. and so we found out he was in a retaliatory type mode. he had issues financially. he took out a big insurance policy and ended up taking the airline half way between jakarta and singapore and crashing it in a high-speed dive. >> so what could we do to make sure that pilots are of sound mind mine and body to operate and take the lives of 150 people into their hands? when you think about it this is a 28-year-old kid. and i say kid because 600 hours of flying time is almost nothing compareded to a very yearly experienced pilot. to fly an aircraft of this nature, obviously he had intense training but it sounds young. it doesn't sound like a lot of
hours, and then to have that kind of responsibility and be able to isolate yourself in the cockpit, it just tells the traveling public we have a long way to go don't we? >> i think so when you look at it here in the united states that pilot wouldn't be in the front end of one of our commercial airliners because it requires 1500 hours of flight time or greater now, especially after continental expressed up in buffalo. the fact is that with a young pilot like this who has been flying 600 hours isn't a lot of experience. this isn't an experience accident. this was an zengsintentional act. he learned to fly the airplane. something triggered him to take the airplane and take it from a motor transportation and make it into a weapon to kill the folks in the back. the big question now is what motivated him, and were there any precursors? i think tom and anthony would agree with me. the hardest thing you can do as a pilot is try to filter and
trap line whether another pilot is having a bad day or if he's got some nefarious intent. that takes a personality study, a character study, and while you can do psychological testing when you first employ a pilot, you don't have the oversights you don't have the filters to be able to monitor that. it's very subjective. we saw with that jetblue. two plus years ago we had a captain who showed up to work and started rambling nonsense to a first officer who was a student when he was left the cockpit to lock the door and divert. who knew that day that cap an was going to show up for work and do what he did? >> mr. davis, why don't other countries follow the united states' lead to make sure there was different cockpit security? i find it just amazing. you know. we've seen planes hijacked in the past.
more could have been put in the regulation. and your thoughts on all of that. >> well let's be clear. the federal aviation authority is certainly different than the civil aviation authority and those who control europe. and this is a very unusual situation. it's not the kind of situation that we would expect airlines to mitigate against. however, in nairobi in 2013 there was a similar enaccident. a smaller aircraft with less passengers on board, but it has happened before. the biggest issue is at the point of issuing a pilot's license, there is no deep mental health testing. just the hunch of the general doctor. the physician, to decide if further testing is required. >> mr. bunn did you ever fly with anybody you weren't sure about? >> yes i did. >> you did? >> yes, but it was mostly older pilots who learned to fly on
props. they weren't familiar with jets. it was not that their personalities with r a problem. i wasn't sure they were really that capable as pilots. >> does the industry need to do more? >> well it's difficult to think of what they could do. i saw stats last week that they were trying to determine how accurately you could apply a test to determine if someone is suicidal. they say you can't do it. the tests are not reliable. if you decided to regularly examine pilots for suicide, you're not going to be able to break the code. >> what does it say about the pilot that he had no qualms about leaving the cockpit with a 28-year-old in charge and only 2600 hours of flying. >> well there's not anything you need to do if you don't touch the machinery. >> it's all on auto pilot. the problem comes if there is a problem, knowing what to do to remedy it. >> yeah.
that's where the training comes. >> obviously, he should be able to get back in the cockpit quickly, ordinarily. i got to tell you, this is so disturbing. last night i couldn't go to sleep. this is a profession to where we expect to be trusted. and to have this happen is really shocking. >> mr. fithe, what about the toggle switch in the cockpit where the single operator could override the security switch of the door. does that have to be looked at in your opinion? >> we have to go back and reevaluate. after 9/11 we were concerned about people in the back of the airplane getting o the front of the airplane. we put barriers up. we put in four to five doors. we have two peek in the cockpit, and the real intent of having the second person in the cockpit, one of the flight crew members left was to run intervene or run intervention if somebody were to gain access to the cockpit. they would have to go to them
before they got to a flying pilot. all of our mentality was keep the people in the back of the airplane from getting to the front of the airplane. so we built these systems and gave the pilots the able to ensure that level of security. we never thought about it. or it was never really concerning we would have the bad guy, if you will behind the locked door keeping the people that are trying to salvage this bad situation from getting in and stopping this type of event. >> that's the rarity of it all. >> absolutely. >> this is almost unbelievable. greg and tom and anthony, great to have you all with us tonight. thanks so much. >> thank you. >> we're keeping a close eye on the breaking news out of new york city. firefighters are battling a massive blaze after a building collapsed. details are still pouring in. we'll bring you the latest. stay with us. we're right back on "the ed show." for the whole weekend! [ snoring ] [ male announcer ] zzzquil, the non habit forming sleep aid that helps you sleep easily and wake refreshed. because sleep
welcome back to "the ed show." i'm surprised there's not outrage among network correspondents tonight. wikileaks just uncovered a document outlining a threat to the united states sovereignty. president obama is still pushing the dangerous tpp, transpacific partnership. "the new york times" published an explosive article revealing the tpp investment chapter. tpp would allow foreign corporations to sue the united states government for actions that undermined their investment expectations and hurt their business. companies and investors would be empowered to challenge regulations, rules, government actions and court rulings before what?
tribunals. how many times have we covered this on the ed show? senator warren says taxpayers would clean up. >> the company could skip the court and go br an international panel of arbitrators. if the company wins the ruling cannot be challenged in u.s. courts and the the arbitration panel could require the american taxpayers to cough up millions even billions of dollars in damages. >> so it took wikileaks to get this document, not anybody in the united states media. we've been following the developments of the transpacific partnership since last summer. now we're in the 11th hour folks. it gets really politically hot. a ranking member on the finance is committee. if widen supports the legislation, liberal groups and unions say they'll primary him out of office. orrin hatch is given until april to april to reach an agreement. political tension is running high. american jobs and safety are at stake.
now, i don't think i'm going to bridge too far. this is serious stuff from the stand standpoint of the secrecy. there's no difference between cooking the books on intelligence to go to war or cooking the booing books and keeping trade negotiations secret and we have to rely on wikileaks instead of the white house to find out what the heck is going on when it comes to american jobs. or maybe that doesn't matter. joining me tonight, lisa johnson, head of the investment law and policy at the columbia center of sustainable investment. and genevieve woods, senior contributor with the daily signal with us tonight. genevieve, how do you defend the secrecy here? your thoughts? >> well i think this is a trade agreement. there are trade agreements that will eventually come before the congress. >> respectfully, if you're not going to defend the secrecy, then what would you say about it? >> what i think we're talking about here is something in most
trade agreements. i've talked to folk who is looked a lt this language that was leaked in "the new york times." they say this is similar to other trade agreements with the eu and other countries and it's often been challenged. many groups primarily in the left don't like it. >> it's interesting that conservatives are okay with circumventing the american law with the united nations having the overriding guiding force on this. this is exactly what the conservatives have been clambering about if r years. >> that may be in some cases, but let me be clear about this. if a u.s. company decideses to open up shop let's say in columbia. and the colombian government says we're going to nationalize the industry, do we want to rely on the courts in colombia to give us a fair deal? i mean if we can go that route if we want to. but i think we want to have a third party we can go before to be more fair. >> but the third party could
circumvent american law, which strips us of a representative government. >> that's not true. >> it is true. it is true. and once the tribunal makes a decision on the investor state disputes, the united states government can't do anything about it. >> these are nonbinding findings, and the united states can pull out of any agreement that it would like to pull out of. >> lisa johnson, is this true? can they pull out once they get into the whole deal? >> pulling out is much more complicated than that. essentially the agreements have a long period of life where they are in force for about 10 to 20 years, depending on the agreements, and once they're terminated, if unilaterally they stay in force for another 10 to 15 years. so it's not as simple as yun unilaterally saying we're out of the agreement. >> so the investor state disputes what are all the yun rons are concerned about and workers in the country. there would be no reversal court in their lifetime. >> right. >> and this would circumvent
american law. >> it definitely has the power to override american law. you see over and over consistently in the decisions where tribunals say consistency not a defense to liability. so some action that is entire legitimate under domestic law should be found in breach of the treaty and give rise to liability. >> does this open the door for a plethora of legal wranglings that would take place in american court in the pp would allow foreign corporations to sue the government for undermining expectations and hurt their business. so if i'm a foreign investor, i'm investing in the united states i don't like the way it went. i'm going to sue. once it's done there's no representative government. the congress can't come back and say let's pass a law to fix that. is that right? >> that's exactly the issue. they provide foreign
shareholders to occupant out of the legal system and opt to choose to go to arbitration, to challenge action of a local authority, state authority, whether by the judicial branch executive or legislative. >> so miss wood if the congress wants to do something in the aftermath of it they're powerless. the representative government is out the window. >> but what you're suggesting here is we have never tried this. this has been part of almost every trade agreement we've been a part of in recent years. and the fact is i think the u.n. did a study on this. about 500 such allegations or countries have brought forth suit. >> so the investor state dissput is in other trade agreements. i have to call you on that. it's simply not true. >> yes, it is, ed. this has been in trade agreement after trade agreement. >> is she correct? >> i'll give you a chance. >> and the countries like that are primarily the types of
countries that end up having problems, not the united states. >> well it is actually a provision that is in u.s. agreements. but most of those agreements, except for nafta are with capital importing states. so with the tpp and the agreement with europe, those are the expansion of the agreement with capital exporting states. so that means essentially all u.s. companies are being protected but the u.s. hasn't faced the same type of liability. >> genevieve, i'll give you the last word. >> i would say folks should know we benefit from foreign investment in the country. that's what the free trade agreements give us. there are about 5 million jobs in this country that are here because of foreign investors. i think it's a good thing for the economy, a good thing for the worker and we haven't seen this be a problem. >> and american companies would be more free to go into emerging markets where they do not have labor standards and would gut american jobs. so we're at an impasse on this.
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or any symptoms of an allergic reaction stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. why pause the moment? ask your doctor about cialis for daily use. for a free 30-tablet trial go to cialis.com and we are back and following the latest on the new york city building collapse. mayor bill de blasio has just arifea arrived on the scene of a massive fire. the fire department of new york confirms at least 12 injuries. three people are in critical condition and being treated at area hospitals. police have evacuated surrounding roads and buildings. one building has collapsed, while a connecting building is still on fire. it all started with reports of an explosion. the fire jumped from a two alarm to a seven alarm in a matter of minutes. officials say a gas leak could be the cause of all of this. the new york department of buildings will hold a press
conference this even on the disaster. and you are looking live at a scene from the top of rockefeller center, where you can see the smoke, which is now starting to go all over manhattan. joining me on the phone is msnbc reporter adam reiss, who is on the scene. adam where are you and what do you know? >> reporter: i'm right at the corner of 2nd avenue. this is the lower east side. and firefighters are continuing to fight this fire. for the first time this evening, the smoke is headed back east. the entire block where it was clear before is now enveloped in smoke. works are digging into the ground to probably try to get to p pipes. we're also getting a better sense, ed from eyewitnesss as to exact lyly what happened at the time of the explosion. people told me they heard a loud explosion. the building shook and there
was a lot of panic running around. the building housed a japanese restaurant. the facade of that restaurant, the glass plate windows exploded out to the street. there's a lot of debris bricks and the like on the street. they also said they saw a few people just walking around dazed and confused. not sure what to do. some of them bloody. rubble everywhere. right now firefighters are continuing to put out this fire. i would say the smoke has dissipated quite a bit. maybe they're on their way to putting this out and being able to search the building. one building has pretty much totally collapseded. the adjacent building has lost the innards. basically all that's left of the second building is the facade. the mayor is here. we expect him to brief us soon. >> all right. adam reiss, reporter on the scene in the east village. the new york department of buildings will hold a press
conference on the disaster this evening. rapid response panel is next. stay with us. i'm morgan brennan with your cnbc mark wrap. the s&p off by four and the the nasdaq shedding 13 points. the price of oil jumping more than 4% after saudi arabia began military operations in yerm yemen. their they're trying to slow the advance of rebels who have driven the country's president from the capital. meanwhile in the u.s. jobless claims fell to a five-week low last week. filings dropped by 9,000 to 282,000, better than economists had expected. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide.
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others on the federal exchange. it is one of the good things about obamacare. is that the statute provided members of congress would be on the exchanges without subsidies like millions of americans so there wouldn't be a double standard. >> and there have got to be advisers blind closed doors saying you have to get this right, cowboy. this is turning out to be the first political stumble of the year. senator ted cruz wants you to believe he's legally required to sign up for obamacare. well, he's not. the affordable care act does not force members of congress to enroll. it cuts off the government contribution to their insurance plans if they buy their policy somewhere else. he's acting as if he has no choice. cruz's wife has taken an unpaid leave of absence from goldman sachs to help her husband campaign. so their health coverage will come from the exchange or his job. you can be sure ted cruz will continue to spin this in his campaign. here's what republican strategist mercedes slap said
here on "the ed show" on wednesday. >> the light is shining on him primarily because he has been so vocal on repealing. this is going to be a question that, of course senator rubio is going to have to face and senator rand paul. so it will be interesting to see how they're going to answer it. it might be interesting that senator ted cruz is going through the process first. >> cruz unveiled his own alternative health care plan a week or so ago. i guess nobody was talking about it. the exact thing that he has been trying to repeal. this could really damage his credibility in a number of ways. author of obamacare, what's in it for me what everyone needs to know about the affordable health care act, algs with us heidi harris talk show host. great to have you all with us. mr. potter, you first. ted cruz, we know he's wrong. he's not legally obligated to
sign up. so why spin it this way. >> you know i don't really know. i guess he felt it was really important to keep it going. i will say he and i have something in common. we are getting health insurance through the employers. i had to do that when i left my job in the insurance industry. and this was before obamacare. and i probably would have done what i did has it not been for my wife having the job. probably uninsurable because of the age. so it's one very good thing about the affordable care act. and he should be grateful to have the chance to be on his wife's health plan. >> well, the fundamental of this is this man has gone around blistering obamacare at every corner. he could go to the private sector, could he not? just pick up the phone and say i need coverage. what is your rate?
why doesn't he go down the the road to the private sector? >> well he can. first of all, you're right. there's no obligation to get his coverage at the workplace, just as anybody does not have to get it by the employer. he doesn't have to go to an exchange. you can get coverage off exchange. anywhere in the country. to qualify for the subsidy, you have to go through the exchange. but he makes too much money to qualify for the subsidy noi. >> heidi harris is he falling from grace? >> he's saying he is looking at options. >> he says he's going to the federal exchange. now he's starting to look at
other options, but 234 the interview, he said we're going to the federal exchange and it's the one good thing about obamacare. that's what he said. i didn't say it. he said it. how do the right wing talkers embrace the guy when they know hey, he could be a phony. >> i don't know that he's a phony. a think a lot of laws i don't like as a conservative and you don't like as a liberal that you have to follow anyway. what would make him a bad guy by going with it. if it were it would make him a bad person or a hypocrite to take advantage of something. he may flot be for it but ultimately it's there. >> it's pretty good spin heidi. he talks about principle. if he's principled he's stay in the private sector and free market and not rely on any government assistance or government policy at all. ruth, is this politically going to hurt him? it might be an opening for scott walker here. what do you think? >> this is a guy who compared
passage of the affordable care act to the nazis. you can't back away by saying they do some good things. it really exposes that we have lousy options. throwing people in the mercy is a terrible option. it's incredibly expensive. so ted cruz yeah this is a much better deal for me. that's why he's pursuing it. as you pointed out. he's completely and totally able to buy health insurance for out of pocket $22,000 on average for a family and make some right wing backer will come along and pay cash. it doesn't change that it's unaffordable for most americans. t. >> and hie die there's no political injury here. that's your call? >> i don't think so. for some people it's cheaper and the deductibles are ridiculous. he's looking at all the options.
c.o.b.r.a., private insurance and obamacare, like everybody should. >> and the increase in rates gone down dramatically since the passing of this law? >> right, in fact it's stabilized, and i want to make the point that the high deductible plan sorted out a long time ago. they're advocated by republicans more than democrats for sure. and they're not -- there's a lot of plans oen the exchanges with the high deductibles. but that was a trend of the insurance industry when i was there. predates the obamacare by many years. >> and what about rand paul and marco rubio? they have to be twisted on this. now what? all republican members of congress face the problem. and then they go around criticizing health care, provided by the government. and most americans who take medicare know you get a much better deal. it's not expensive to the individual, obviously.
and it's not expensive to the united states. we pay more for health care than any other country and get worse outcomes. we pay 20% to private health insurance companies just in overhead administrative costs. it's based on profits. and 2% in medicare because it's much more efficient for the government. if the government provided a single payer system for everybody. anybody could access it. ted cruz wouldn't be in the bind. >> 60 million glrz in medicare. >> yeah, there's no waste there. none whatsoever. none. >> okay. >> please. >> if ted cruz is principally opposed to the government being involved in health care he shouldn't have anything to do with it because there are other free market options out there. what a very hypocrite call position. great to have you with us. coming up. what the airline disaster in france means for travel if the united states. stay with us. we are right back.
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an update on our breaking news in southern manhattan. we are now manhattan manhattan, we are learning that the massive fire has spread to four buildings. firefighters are still trying to put it all out. officials say it appears construction on gas and plumbing lines is to blame for the explosion. one building has collapsed. there are concerns the other buildings could collapse. three people were critically injured. mayor bill de blasio spoke moments ago after going inside one of the buildings with the firefighters. >> every room emptied, burned and charred. you can only imagine this beautiful, vibrant family 24 hours ago, and now so many lost and two cling to life. >> authorities will hold a press conference later on this
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finally tonight, as we learn more about the terrible act that brought down germanwings flight 9525, there's a new focus on proper procedure for pilots. several international airlines are implementing a rule that requires two crew members to be in the cockpit at all times during a flight. it's a rule that has been standard on american flights for
years. nbc's steve handlesman has more. >> reporter: experts say this kind of tragedy is less likely on airliners flying in america. u.s. rules require a no-alone zone in the cockpit. a flight attendant must go to the flight deck anytime one of the two pilots leaves. >> there is no good reason why a commercial jet pilot, response for hundreds -- hundreds of souls, is allowed to remain alone in the cockpit. >> the reinforced doors required after 9/11 to prevent hijackings can help a pilot who wants to crash his own plane. as seen in this airbus video, if a pilot simply moves the cockpit door switch to lock no combination of codes punched into the keypad outside, that lockout lasts five minutes, and the pilot can repeat it. one person controls access to
the cockpit and controls the plane. some critics say go back to three pilots that used to be standard. >> you don't want to bring flight attendants in the cockpit. they can't fly the aircraft. but egypt flight 990 crashed and 217 died when the copilot deliberately put that plane into a dive and the pilot on the flight deck could not pull up. but the lufthansa pilot couldn't even get to the controls to try to save his passengers. with us for more on this greg feith, a former ntsb investigator former senior crash investigator and msnbc aviation safety analyst. greg with this unfolding tragedy, have we uncovered a design and operational flaw? what do you think? >> i think we have identified a flaw in the system and the intent of what that door and the protocols really were to serve.
when you look back well before 9/11 pilots used to leave the flight deck quite a bit and they would leave one pilot flying. i sat on many a jump seat where the captain or first officer left the flight deck and it was myself and one pilot talking. after 9/11 we put the protocols in for this two-person cockpit for security purposes but nobody ever thought about the bad guy already being in the cockpit locking out the good guy, who was behind that door. i think we have to revisit now the intent and now with not only this event, but egypt air 990, and silk air, others that are similar to this we're going to have to find new protocols, whether it is again two persons, whether it's a flight attendant or an actual pilot or flight crew member that occupies that second position in the cockpit. >> now, it doesn't take a federal law to do this. we have seen the airlines overseas today, three of them in
particular respond to this. do the airlines -- they have the latitude they have the freedom to be more aggressive with their safety standards, don't they? >> they do. volunteerism is really what it's all about, ed. but the problem here is you have to look at the costs across the board. if they see it as a cost center or an expense, they aren't going to do it until they're mandated to do it. while here in the suns you know our interests is safety and security and we've done it from a standpoint of here's the protocol, here's the purpose. it doesn't really cost any more money, but now if you put a qualified crew member up there, now the expense will go up. a lot of the asian carriers fly with in a two-person airplane they fly with a third person either the radio officer or what they call a flight engineer who serves a variety of different purposes. maybe we have to revisit that kind of setup in these smaller aircraft, so that we always have
three qualified people up front. >> greg is the possible summation of all of this we may never know what happened because of the disintegration of this aircraft and there's just not going to be enough information for us to come to a conclusion as to what exactly lyly unfolded with this flight? >> it's a two-part answer. we know there was no mechanical issue with the airplane. we know it was an intentional act. the pilot commanded the airplane to flight at a specific speed and rate of descent and flew it into the ground. what we will not know necessarily is the reason why, the motivation because the person who basically acted through this is no longer with us, so we can't ask the question -- what was going through your mind? what were you thinking? >> yeah. >> we'll probably never have an answer to that. >> greg feith, thanks for your time and expertise.
>> you're welcome. you can get my podcast. that's "the ed show." "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. \s. >> good evening, ed. we continue with the breaking news. why did the germanwings copilot take his plane down? the horrific news today confirmed by a french prosecutors. >> the copilot was the one who was manipulating the flight monitoring system who managed the descent of the plane. so, again, all of these actions were completely voluntary. we hear human breathing within the cabin, and we hear this breathing up until the final point of impact. which we assume means that the