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tv   The Ed Show  MSNBC  April 17, 2015 2:00pm-3:01pm PDT

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for this show. "the ed show" is coming up next. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" live from detroit lakes, minnesota. it's friday. let's get to work. tonight, myth-busting the trade deal. >> this is the most far-reaching and progressive trade promotion authority that we've seen going through congress. plus the tulsa deputy's story. >> i still can't believe it happened. and the republican king maker. >> welcome aboard. >> good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. hillary clinton has broken her silence on the transpacific partnership. her spokesperson nick merrill e-mailed this statement to "the ed show" just moments ago and it reads. hillary clinton believes that any new trade measure has to pass two tests. first, it should put us in a position to protect american
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workers, raise wages, and create more jobs more good jobs at home. second, it must also strengthen our national security. we should be willing to walk away from any outcome that falls short of these tests. the goal is greater prosperity and security for american families not trade, for trade's sake. she will be watching closely to see what is being done to crack down on currency manipulation. improve labor rights. protect the environment and health. promote transparency and open new opportunities for our small businesses to export overseas. end of statement. mrs. clinton, respectfully and your staff, this statement is generic political speak, and it is a complete dodge of the issue at the 11th hour. these are not the words of a champion at this time. this is not about watching closely. this is about action. this issue is here and it's here now. and this country is about to
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embark on a trade deal that will destroy the middle class even further. it will depress wages. this will be the biggest blow to unions in our country's history. why do you think the republicans are for it? now, you're either for this or you're against it. now, this is the moment of truth when it comes to the progressive community and the labor community and the middle class in this country. you can't get around it. meanwhile, president obama is speaking out on the tpp as fast-track votes loom in the congress. that means that passage of the transpacific partnership, if it gets fast-tracked, is now at america's doorstep. and the media doesn't get it. i don't care if this story is boring. i care about how important it is. and i care about how this story has not been covered. this story has received poor coverage all around. and the democrats. they own the problem in a sense. you cannot go around campaigning
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that you're for the middle class, and then grease the skids for this trade deal to go through. proponents of this trade deal claim that there have been net job gains under previous american trade deals. that's false. america has lost over 50,000 manufacturing factories on other trade deals. america has turned its economy to a paper shuffling service industry economy. now, i have spoken and i have been to places like lorraine ohio and talked to folks who have had their jobs shipped overseas because of previous bad trade deals. and, of course the way we don't enforce them and can't enforce them. people have gone from manufacturing steel and car parts to flipping burgers at mcdonald's. now, if that is your vision for america, then you know what? the transpacific partnership is your baby. thursday's news of a fast track deal in congress should worry every single american. they, of course, have agreed in
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committee. they haven't voted yet, but they will soon and it's going to end up on the floor. here's a key player. the democratic senator from oregon jumped onboard because of these new human right provisions that are in the deal. on thursday larry cohen of the communication workers of america said the language was a joke. >> this notion that somehow we will will it through words and a chapter when the country's involved, whether it's vietnam or none of the challenging groups are involved or whether it's mexico, where conditions for workers continue to get worse, it's impossible. and we've had no enforcement before. i was in honduras, we got a nice report on honduras three years after the complaints were filed. guatemala, six years later. meanwhile, corporations get the right to sue. >> members of congress are misleading america about a horrible deal. senator orrin hatch released a statement saying this is a smart, bipartisan compromise
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that will help move america forward. the removal of trade promotional authority will help american workers and job creators unlock new opportunities for growth and promote better high-paying jobs here at home. that is false. nothing could be further from the truth. we've heard this garbage before. senator hatch's statement is not based on fact nor is it based on good historical record of trade agreements or any reason whatsoever. earlier today, president obama spoke out on "fast track" extensively and the tpp. the president made his most detailed case yet for the trade deal. tonight we're going to do something special here on "the ed show." we are not going to edit the president's comments because he has been very coy in public and in interviews about the trade promotional authority and tpp. so we're going to play the entire statement, and then senator bernie sanders is going to join us. here it is. >> i would be receiving the same trade promotion authority that
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every president in the post-war era with the exception of richard nixon has received. so it's not exceptional in that sense. what is exceptional is that in this framework for the first time there are requirements for enforceable labor, environmental provisions. there is clear attention to issues like human rights. and in many ways this is the most far-reaching and progressive trade promotion authority that we've seen going through congress. and that's important, because as i've said before it is entirely understandable that there is some skepticism around trade from working families who live in a town that saw manufacturing collapse. and jobs being outsourced. people recognize that there had
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been circumstances in the past in which trade may have contributed to aggregate growth the global economy, or even the u.s. economy, but hurt workers. and we've learned lessons from that. this trade promotion authority, thanks to the work of senator wyden and hatch, reflects some of those lessons. in terms of actually getting a deal done the first trade agreement that we potentially would present under this trade promotion authority would be the transpacific partnership, or tpp. i've spoken to this before but i will just repeat. that 95% of the world's markets are outside our borders. the fastest growing markets, the most populist markets are beginning to be in asia. and if we do not help to shape the rules so that our businesses and our workers can compete in those markets, then china will
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set up rules that advantage chinese workers and chinese businesses. and that will set the stage over the next 20, 30 years for us being locked out, us being unable to protect our businesses from discrimination our agricultural products being excluded from these areas. high tar i haves that prevent us from being able to compete fairly. when it comes to services or it comes to the internet for example, our ability to maintain intellectual property protection or freedom in the internet or other requirements that tilt the playing field against u.s. workers, that's what's going to happen. so what we are doing is negotiating the highest level, highest standard trade agreement in our history with strong
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enforceable labor provisions strong enforceable environmental provisions and i will be able to show when the final agreement is presented that this is absolutely good for not just american businesses, but for american workers. and it's good for our economy. it's the right thing to do. now, the last point im'll make on this, the politics around trade has always been tough particularly in the democratic party. because people have memories of outsourcing and job loss. the point i've made to my labor friends and my progressive friends is that companies that are looking for just low-cost labor, they've already left. we're already at a disadvantage right now. the trade agreement i'm proposing would actually strengthen our ability to force other markets open. and strengthen our position compared to where we are right
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now. and being opposed to this trade agreement is a ratification of the status quo where a lot of folks are selling here but we're not selling there. japan is one of the negotiators in this deal. the last time i checked, if you drive around washington there are a whole bunch of japanese cars. you go to tokyo, and don't count on many chryslers and gm and ford cars there are. so the current situation is not working for us. i don't know why folks would be opposed to us opening up the japanese market more for u.s. autos, or u.s. beef. doesn't make any sense. so i'm beginning to be able to make a strong case. but i think it's important when you talk about dividing the party. we got a korean free shade agreement passed. we got a colombian free trade
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agreement passed. a panama free trade agreement passed over the last several years during my presidency. it didn't divide the democratic party. there's beginning to be a set of democratic senators and house members who traditionally have just on principle opposed trade because the union is on principle regardless of what the provisions are, are opposed to trade. and then others who, like me believe that we cannot stop a global economy at our shores. we've got to be in there and compete. we've got to make sure we're writing the rules so we've got a level playing field, because when we do products made in america, services provided by american firms, are the best in the world. and i will continue to make that argument. and for those who argue that somehow this is contrary to the interest of working families what i tell them is my whole
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presidency has been about helping working families. and lifting up wages and giving workers more opportunity. if i didn't think this deal was doing it i wouldn't do it. i didn't get elected because of the sponsorship of the business round table or the chamber of commerce. the reason i'm doing that is because i know this is an important thing to do and i also know it sends a signal throughout asia that we are out there competing and we are going to help maintain international rules that are fair for everybody. and not so tilted in favor of one country that it ends up being bad for, not only our commercial prospects, but for other countries over the long term. that was a very long answer. but it's a big question. >> it is a big question. and it is a long answer. and it's long overdue that the american people hear this mr. president. here's the bottom line fekolks.
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every union in this country is against it. not because of principle. they're against it because it's going to gut american jobs. the partly sunny's got it wrong. there's no question about it. this is a global race to the bottom. i don't know who's coaching the president on this but investors state trade disputes are going to go to an international tryinternational tribunal. the democrats are against it because-the-going to gut american jobs. the korean trade deal has been a boondoggle for the american economy. our trade deficit has skyrocketed since then. it has not been good. it has not created jobs. in fact, there's not one trade agreement that this country has gotten into with obama or any other president that has netted plus american jobs. what is it that they don't get about this?
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the irony of this is that president obama came into office. he didn't prosecute wall street. he's giving wall street the best deal they've ever had. hillary clinton is on the sidelines saying she's going to be watching. no. we're beyond watching. we're beyond listening. this is now a time for action. you're either for it or against it. this will be the biggest blow to the middle class in the history of this country. this will encompass almost 60% of the world economy. this is a race to the bottom. if this idea that china is going to right the rules, give me a break. the united states of america is the biggest customer in the world. they need us. they need you. they need me. they need all of us. and so why in the world -- now, these enforceable trade deals. we haven't had any enforceable trade deals. that's the problem. or enforceable laws are antiquated. that's where we have to focus as well. so i just want to point out
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this. that there's politics to this. no question about it. but there's also a reality. mr. president, i don't want an interview with you. i want a trip. i want you and i to go to lorraine ohio and i want to make sure that i'm hearing these workers and i want to make sure that you hear these workers, because i'll take you in front of workers that have lost their jobs to foreign markets because of a lousy trade deal. and this is really good spin that we're getting out of the administration right now. but they are dead-wrong on this. they are dead-wrong. this isn't about whether it's boring, or exciting. this is about whether it's important to america's future. and the democrats, you will sign up with people who are against minimum wage who are against workers' rights who are against every job bill. and i don't know why the president is warming up to people who have stabbed him in the back all along. the people that brought this president to the dance not once but twice, was labor. where is labor wrong? they're all on the same page to
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say no to this. this is an amazing time in american economic history is what it is. i know where fdr would be. i know where kennedy would be. i know where senator ted kennedy would be. i know where robert byrd would be. i know where tom daschle would be. but this new democratic wave that we need to cave in to all these corporate interests is going to gut our economy even further. and it will change the democratic party forever. because the democrats are never going to be able to go back to the working folk of america in the middle class and say we stood up for you. no. no. no. they're not standing up for workers here. they're allowing it to go right down the skids. and it's unfortunate. this idea that we have to have the state department and the commerce department connect this to national security how many billions of dollars did we spend on military hardware to protect this country and the world? you mean we have to go do a
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lousy trade deal to make everybody happy so they can gut american jobs? there has to be some level of protectionism. i wonder what teddy roosevelt would say about this. we have forgotten our roots. this is wrong. this is not standing up for american families. and to stand up for american families is to say no to fast track. and you know what's ironic about this? is that the republicans want to give the president the trade promotion authority to go do this deal, but they don't want to give the president the authority to go do a nuclear deal with the iranians. yeah. whatever works for them politically, right? this is going to be the best sweetheart emerging market deal that wall street has ever had. wall street's never had it so good. from march of 2009 to where we are right now. how much better do they want it? in the meantime we have very few people in the democratic party in this country who are willing to say we have an issue with income inequality and we have a wage gap.
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it's like if you're on national television, you might get the plague if you talk about it. or you might get fired. really? really? no. this is about having a commitment to the american economy. and protecting the very workers that do what? pay the taxes. that support our government. that support our military for freedom. and we're going to take them and throw them under the bus? for national security? really? we're going to do a trade deal with brunei. brunei. let's see. shari'a law. what do the republicans think about that? they don't care. they're all about the god almighty dollar. this segment is called "straight talk from the heartland." and let me say one final thing about this to you farmers out there. there is a provision in this trade deal that obama's not talking about. that will force us to take
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agricultural products from other countries. do you think that might depress your prices in the foreign country? do you think you're going to be able to get a really good farm bill after this? i doubt it. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question -- do you trust president obama on the tpp? go to pulse.msnbc.com/ed to cast your vote. i'll bring you the results later on in the show. i want to bring in senator bernie sanders tonight from vermont, the independent who has been very cler on this issue all a -- clear on this issue all along. we got an earful from the president. we wanted to make sure his side of the story got out. he said that there are enforceable labor and environmental provisions in the tpp. what does he mean? how enforceable are they? your take. >> we've heard it from almost
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every trade agreement that's come down the pike and yet you have workers that are being exploited all over the world. it takes years before their concerns are being heard. i think the first point to make about this trade agreement is to look at whose side multi-national corporations are on on this. how do the drug companies feel about this. how does wall street feel about it? all of the multi-nationals believe this is a great agreement. just the other day, i and a few of us spoke before the thousand steel workers on this issue. so you've got working people on one side. corporate america on the other side. second of all, if you look at the history of trade agreements there is a reason why we have lost 60,000 factories in this country since 2001 and millions of decent paying jobs.
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and there is a reason why most of the jobs being created are low-wage service industry type jobs and that's because major corporation after major corporation has shut down in america. they've gone to china. they've gone to vietnam. they've gone to mexico to hire low wage workers and bring their products back to this country. i've been opposed to nafta, permanent trade relations with china. i've heard how great these agreements are and yet what they've ended up doing is hollowing out the middle class of this country. but in addition you've got another factor. and that is you have it's a result of this agreement if it's passed. you'll have corporations being able to sue governments, federal, local, state, in america, around the world, because they're trying to do the right thing in terms of public health. or in terms of the environment.
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and the corporations will have the right to say hey, you are limiting my ability to make money. and that's what this agreement is about. maximizing corporate profits. so you have a case which could be similar under tpp. uruguay is being sued by phillip morris. why? because they don't want their kids getting hooked on cigarettes. because profits are more important than human needs. you have doctors without borders. one of the heroic groups in the world going to treat poor people all over the world. they are saying this agreement is terrible because it will raise pharmaceutical prices in low income countries because corporations pharmaceutical industry will be able to maintain their patents and countries will not be able to go into generic drugs. you look at all of those factors and it is very disappointing that president obama is on the wrong side of this that hillary clinton has not spoken out strongly in defense of working people on this issue.
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>> president obama said that we don't write trade rules, that china will be writing the trade rules. what's your response to that? >> my response is we're the largest economy in the history of the world. every single night, corporations are on television telling us buy this product, buy that product. do you think that as a nation we don't have the capability of saying to those corporations if you want us to buy those products how about manufacturing them here in america and not in china? how about putting our people back to work? one of the reasons the middle class has declined is we have seen massive declines in manufacturing and manufacturing jobs. it is terribly important we rebuild our manufacturing base. >> i appreciate your time. does this issue now that you've
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heard president obama and now that you've heard the statement that hillary's camp put out tonight, saying she's going to be watching this closely, it was a non-position position really. it was not for or against -- i mean it was rather political, it was political speak. does this bring you any closer to a decision? >> on this issue, i will make a decision within the next few weeks, yes. this is a key issue. if i run, trade is a central part of a campaign. >> remember to answer tonight's question at pulse.msnbc.com/ed. we'll have the results right after this break. follow us on facebook and watch my facebook feature "gimme a minute." coming up robert bates is telling his side of the story. we'll have the full interview
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we come by almost every day to deliver your mail so if you have any packages you want to return you should just give them to us since we're going to be here anyway it's kind of a no brainer thanks for watching tonight. hillary clinton is going to have one of the best funded presidential campaigns of all time. a lot of that money is only made possible by citizens united. this didn't stop hillary clinton from making campaign finance reform one of the pillars of her campaign. >> we need to fix our dysfunctional political system and get unaccountable money out of it once and for all, even if that takes a constitutional amendment. >> joining me tonight, ben cohen, a co-founder of ben and
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jerry's. this has been his issue for years. good to have you with us tonight. do you believe that hillary felt the need to address this right off the bat, because there has been so much progressive conversation about it? >> i think that's absolutely correct. it's been more than just progressive conversation. 80%, 90% of the population from both parties, republicans and democrats, wants to get money out of politics. everybody realizes that money has corrupted our democracy, and the politicians are not responsive to the people they're responsive to the money. >> do you think she has to play by the rules right now? i mean go raise this money under citizens united because that's just the fish bowl that politicians are switching in right now until things change? >> yeah i do think that politicians need to raise money however they can until the rules
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change. but i think that hillary's comment was disingenuous. you know i'm not concerned about the unaccountable money. i'm concerned about the money we know about. i mean we know the big banks are paying off the politicians to cut regulations on wall street. we know the fossil fuel industry is paying off the politicians so that they get tax breaks and so that they continue to get advantages over renewable forms of energy. i mean you know, we know consumer banks are paying off politicians so that student debt ends up at ridiculous rates. i mean hillary is -- what she's talking about is not going to help. >> constitutional amendment wouldn't help? >> well, a constitutional amendment would certainly help. the constitutional amendment that we need is one that says that money is not free speech. is one that limits the amount of
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money that corporations and the ultra wealthy can pay to politicians to get laws passed as they want. but when she says she wants an amendment that's going to make sure there's no more unaccountable money, that's not getting money out. >> mr. cohen, good to have you with us tonight. we'll have you back on this issue. certainly it's not going away any time soon. ben cohen of ben and jerry's here on the ed show. coming up, robert bates is speaking out with his side of the story. we'll bring you the details. stay with us. we're right back on "the ed show."
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of eric harris the man he says he shot when he mistook his gun for his taser. >> you know, i still can't believe it happened. >> reporter: in an interview on the "today" show, bates shares his version of what happened, revealing he was positioned several blocks away as eric harris allegedly tried to sell a semiautomatic pistol to an undercover officer. when harris ran towards bates's location, he says he grabbed his gun thinking it was his taser and fired. >> i shot him. i'm sorry. >> oh, my god, what has happened. the laser light is the same on each weapon. i saw the light and i squeezed the trigger, and then realized i had dropped the gun. >> reporter: it's an explanation that doesn't sit well with the family of eric harris who is calling for an independent investigation. >> if he had as much training as he supposedly had, he would definitely know a 357 from a taser. >> reporter: bates's training records have raised questions. state records show he received
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almost 300 hours of instruction in the past six years. but the tulsa county sheriff said in a radio interview this week his office has not been able to locate all of bates's gun certification records, since the instructor no longer works there, and the "tulsa world" newspaper cited unnamed sources alleging he was gwyn training for field work he never did and firearm certifications he never received. bates and his attorney deny that. >> the so-called evidence falsified training records, comes from a person that was terminated by the sheriff's office seven years ago. >> reporter: a reserve deputy and a department under a microscope following a fatal shooting caught on tape. coming up on "the ed show," a defense attorney will join us along with paul henderson. they will weigh in on the robert bates interview and what it means for the case. we'll be right back. i have a wandering eye. i mean, come on. national gives me the control to choose any car in the aisle i want. i could choose you...
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or i could choose her if i like her more. and i do. oh, the silent treatment. real mature. so you wanna get out of here? go national. go like a pro. your mom's got your back. your friends have your back. your dog's definitely got your back. but who's got your back when you need legal help? we do. we're legalzoom, and over the last 10 years, we've helped millions of people protect their families and run their businesses. we have the right people on-hand to answer your questions backed by a trusted network of attorneys. so visit us today for legal help you can count on. legalzoom. legal help is here. that's it. good job. nice coating. and get this one next. whoa! what are you guys doing? making sure nothing sticks. otherwise, we gotta scrub all this stuff off. huh, what?
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welcome back to "the ed show." thanks for watching tonight. for more on matt lauer's exclusive interview with robert bates, i'm joined for the discussion tonight with paul henderson, veteran prosecutor. and also legal analyst, also with us tonight, thomas meszaro, criminal defense attorney. great to have you with us. from a prosecutor's standpoint did this interview help or hurt mr. bates as you see it? >> well it's going to hurt him, specifically from a criminal perspective. all of these admissions and statements of contrition are going to come into the case where he's making admissions and talking about being sorry. and i'll tell you what's going to be relevant. as he's describing and showing what he did on the scene, all of that is going to be reviewed and come into whatever criminal charges are pending against him in front of a jury. and i'll tell you from a legal
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perspective, the two issues that are going to be most important in this case are the issues of what his training was or could have been and then also what his assignment was. so by putting him in the violent crime division in that area even though he said he wasn't supposed to be doing anything he knew or should have known that the use of deadly force was possible because he was armed with both a taser and a gun. so all of these things are going to be presented to a jury. all of these things are going to go and speak to the likelihood that he knew or should have known that an accident could have happened and they'll speak directly to what his training would have been or should have been in the use of deadly force as he's acting as an agent of law enforcement. and it's not going to matter that he was just a volunteer. >> from a defense attorney's standpoint, this is a rather unusual strategy to do an interview on national
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television. is this a gamble? >> it is a gamble but i think it was a successful one for the defense. the greatest thing this defendant has going for him is who he is as a person how he's lived his life and what his goals and intentions were when he volunteered to help the police department. this is not your typical criminal case. this is a 73-year-old man with no criminal history who has been a good citizen, who donated his time and money to the police department. he didn't create the situation. a criminal who was trying to sell illegal guns to an undercover agent did create the situation. now, i agree with the family of eric harris i think there should be an independent investigation. however, this man is going to come across as someone who never intended to commit a crime. did the best he could to help the police department. was under tremendous stress. had every reason to think that the person he was chasing was armed. and i don't think a jury's going to convict him. i don't think a jury's going to want to make him a felon for the rest of his life.
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>> i don't think that those good intentions are going to bring mr. harris back. he is dead because of the actions that were taken on that day. and his good intentions are directly going to be compared with the training that he received or should have received in comparison with the deadly use of force that he displayed on that day, and it was just inappropriate in this case and this is why it's charged as a second-degree, as a reckless mistake, that he should have known better and should have used better care because at the end of the day, there's still someone dead and the state is not going to take that as an excuse to mitigate his behavior beyond what the charges are to get him out of culpability in this case. >> the state may not, but a jury is likely to. >> well we'll see. >> this is part of the defense, this interview today, isn't it? >> yes, it is. >> the mission had to be go out and show the country that you're really a good guy.
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>> absolutely. and i think the character of the defendant, i think the way he's lived his life the people who support him, and his intentions and goals and helping the police department are going to help him escape a criminal conviction. there may be a civil suit for negligence against the police department that will likely be successful. but convicting him of a felony 12 jurors beyond a reasonable doubt, i'd like to see it. i'd like to defend this one. >> you'd like to defend this one. okay, what about -- this was very interesting in the interview, when he stood up and showed where his taser gun was. and where his firearm was. from a prosecutor's standpoint, mr. henderson, what do you do with that? >> well you'll notice when he was talking about that he referenced specifically where it was in relationship to his training. so again it's going to open the door to have that discussion about what his training was or should have been as they're training him, but all of that's going to be relevant as they're trying to find whether or not this was a valid mistake and
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whether or not it was recklessness, whether or not it was negligence and whether or not those mistakes rose to the level of criminal culpability to hold him accountable for the subsequent death that occurred because of his actions. so that's why it's all going to matter. you're going to hear a lot of discussion about exactly how the accident took place. you see he's already making these statements publicly, but this is going to be absolutely relevant as soon as it comes in front of a jury as well. >> and mr. meszaro, your impression of him standing up demonstrating where the taser gun was and where his firearm was, and he also made reference that there were other shootings that have taken place in this country that he had researched. said he's not the only one that's ever done something like this. what about that? >> look this is not the south carolina case where a police officer pulled over a man for a busted taillight, and then in a cold-blooded pre-meditated intentional fashion executed
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him. i think a jury is going to probably relate to someone who did his best, came out and said i made a mistake, has never denied it. mistakes don't necessarily mean felony conduct. that's going to be the issue. >> okay. paul henderson tom meszaro, enjoyed the discussion. the republican king maker is dethroned. more on rush limbaugh's fading influence on the republican party. and it is fading. stay with us. we're right back. secure, confident. i feel protected. i mean i feel comfortable to move in them, they move with me. i love always discreet underwear because of the fit. the fabric is very soft. i can wear whatever i want to wear. always discreet has made me a very happy woman. join over 500,000 women who've discovered always discreet underwear. for more stories and your free sample go to alwaysdiscreet.com so bladder leaks can feel like no big deal. to unlock the possibilities of tomorrow......"lift tab." behold the beauty of balance. crisp flakes of fiber-rich bran.
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finally tonight, moments from now former arkansas governor mike huckabee will make an announcement about 2016. he's running over to his old employer fox news. ted cruz rand paul and marco rubio all went to fox news after becoming presidential candidates. sean hannity got exclusive interviews. >> florida senator, marco rubio. how do you define yourself? >> i like the words constitutional conservative. >> sean, always great to join you. >> no one is going on bended knee to rush limbaugh anymore. we're seeing a real shift in power structure in the media. republicans have figured out that limbaugh isn't the player he used to be. radio is rush limbaugh's only
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platform. the three-hour format is dying along with his ratings. he doesn't have the television and social media reach platforms that hannity has. one of the most listened to radio stations in indianapolis indiana just dropped limbaugh after 22 years. local market manager for the station believes this could open them up to a new group of advertisers. the radio group which syndicates limbaugh has been carrying a $20 billion debt. they are owned by former mitt romney's old company bain capital. network radio's in big trouble advertising-wise. the future doesn't look good for limbaugh. how long will he be around question mark. joining me tonight for this is angelo carrosone and also with us tonight the executive vice president of media matters and also john fugle sirius xm radio talk show host. great to have you with us. let me ask you this. is limbaugh's audience is off. i think you sort of hit the point right in your introduction
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a couple years ago advertisers began to realize that rush limbaugh was bad for business and now rush limbaugh has become so toxic that even political figures are starting to realize that. his audience is continuing to dwindle. a couple weeks ago on facebook he pointed out that the demographics are against us folks, you know and partly he was sort of alluding to and starting to signal this advertiser -- this station drop due to his advertiser losses and this is just part of a larger trend. his -- he's just not commercially viable. >> well, you know there are -- if you want to talk about the age factor here and he says the demographics are against him. wait a minute. there are broadcasters on a national level who are older than rush and they are not losing audience the way he is. john fugle sang what do you make of it? >> as long as there's angry middle age white guys with impacted colons rush limbaugh will have listeners. i'm not going to rejoice in
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someone from possibly loseying his job. that's what separates us from rush. i want to see three ghosts visit him on christmas eve and turn him into a better person. meantime, i think you're exactly right. hannity is now the king-maker. we're going to be seeing this non-stop hannity carnival of ignorance where people who really enjoy being lied to like a tragic girl at a frat party show up to be kool-aid boarded and we can expect a lot more of it in the weeks to come. >> well, john why do you think that the republicans are going to hannity which they never did before not like this and they -- they don't go to limbaugh? i mean clearly hannity seems to be the prime player in all of this political talk. >> well, you know ed. you can't really talk about sean hannity without discussing nicha who famously said people want tabloid do because they don't want to have their illusions shattered. let's say you're a nice non-millionaire conservative person who is wrong about bill clinton's tax increases wrecking the economy, wrong about impeaching bill clinton and
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wrong about bush's tax cuts helped in asia wrong with wmd and long about being liberators and wrong with sarah palin and birth certificates and obama care costing jobs. if you've been wrong about everything mr. schultz, uncle sean hannity will give you a nice little drop of denial that will tell you you've been right all along and the evil liberal media with all the facts clouding your vision. sean will be go great. you'll never go broke telling people who are wrong they are right. >> one of the reasons people are going to sean hannity is because of the nature of the programming. wrz rush limbaugh's business model is failing because the free market is built on vitriol and lies. sean hannity's program is not as vennous as rush limbaugh's is. he's much more hyper partisan than rush lum begin other conservative talkers who usually have their own self-interest in mind and that tends to align with the republican party. sean hannity is very free you know, to feed republican -- actual republican talking points
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or turn his show into an infomercial for the rnc. other conservative talkers would never do that. >> in fairness sean hannity spent a lot of time in the iraq war questioning the patriotism of anybody who didn't want to do exactly what bush did. i'm getting a satellite dish so i can get his show in the nonfiction form. >> angelo what about all the boycott movements that have kind of gotten on limbaugh? do you think they have really had a big effect? >> definitely v.and the "wall street journal" report confirmed that and i think one thing i would point out it's not so much that individuals are boycotting. the people that are boy kuyt could thing, the advertisers and the media buyers themselves. i think it's worth keeping in mind rush limbaugh has gone out there repeatedly not understanding why his particular business model is bad for business he's attacked media buyers. the stop rush people are keeping this story alive and continuing to educated advertisers but the people boycotting are the companies themselves. this is the free market in
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action. >> yeah. gentlemen, great to have you with us. angelo and john fueling sang appreciate your time on this. that's "the ed show." "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. >> good evening, ed. thanks to you for tuning in. we have a big show tonight, including what could be president obama's most powerful emotional statement yet onled delay in the loretta lynch nomination. >> it's gone too far, enough. enough. call loretta lynch for a vote. these embarrassing. a process like this. >> we'll have that full statement and what it means for the confirmation fight later in the show. but we start with developing news about that oklahoma reserve deputy who says he mistook his gun fo

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