tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC April 21, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
jack's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today, his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor before your begin an aspirin regimen. good evening. i'm lawrence o'donnell. it's time for "the last word." on hard ball tonight, it was president obama versus elizabeth warren with chris matthews playing the part of elizabeth warren, sort of. breaking news out of baltimore where hundreds are gathering in protest. they will tell you that they simply don't trust the police. >> outrage over the death of a man who suffered a spinal injury while in police custody. >> the justice department has announced it's opening its own investigation. >> to determine whether any prosecutable civil rights violation occurred. >> vote to confirm loretta lynch this week. >> in a new senate compromise
over president obama's stalled nominee for attorney general. >> drop the delays, drop the excuses.yr >> as soon as we finish the bill -- >> people expressed in the media. >> the longest delay ever for an attorney general nominee. >> this embarrassing episode for your party mind you. >> stay tuned, hillary clinton's new tour. >> connecting with everyday americans. >> we need to make being middle class mean something again.ñg=xz >> continuing the aggressive fund-raising. >> spending his time connecting with everyday billionaires. >> the coke brothers have the favorite in the gop race and governor scott walker is the chosen one. >> during his speech, he told the crowd hillary clinton has probably never been to a kohl's. if your best attack is hillary clinton's wardrobe is too dressy, i don't love your chances. today, president obama used
the most forceful terms he has used yet. >> this is the most progressive framework for trade we have ever had. this requires us to have binding labor agreements. on the environment, we're actually negotiating with countries that almost have no environmental standards that suddenly they have attention to excessive logging, they have to pay attention to excessive fishing. they have to pay attention to how they're protecting their oceans. they have to pay attention to wildlife trafficking. i mean, we're embodying in this deal all the stuff that the environmental community and the labor community, for years, has been talking about as a requirement for them approving trade deals.65z0 c1 this is better than the colombian free trade agreement, the panama free trade agreement and the korea free trade 9 agreement that we just passed a couple of years ago.
>> president obama's fight to pass this trade deal is not with republicans, it is with democrats led by senator elizabeth warren. >> i love elizabeth. we're allies on a whole host of issues, but she's wrong on this. >> here is what hillary clinton said about the trans-pacific partnership today. >> any trade deal has to produce jobs and raise wages and increase prosperity and protect 4w?%j.r security. and we have to do our part in making sure we have the capabilities and the skills to be competitive. so it's got to be, really, a partnership between our business, our government, our workforce.) >> she was a little more specific about tpp when she was secretary of state. she sah7uiá5jjjááátáhp)e en5uát$ur)qq( upping our game both bilaterally and with partners across the
region through agreements like the trans-pacific partnership, or tpp. the tpp sets the gold standard in trade agreements to open free, transparent, fair trade, the kind of environment that has the rule of law and a level playing field. and when negotiated, this agreement will cover 40% of the world's total trade and build in the strong protections for workers and the environment. joining us now, joy reid, richard world, howard dean and david frum. howard dean, is the president right, is this the most progressive framework for trade we've ever had? >> that's actually the problem. we don't know. i think we're going to need to see a lot more before we can possibly say that.l ÷ the two things that worry me the most in this trade deal are what are the rights of corporations to override sovereignty decisions by states, for )=b example, in environmental protection?
we've seen that abused in the past. the other is that it reduces, to my understanding, it reduces ñç intellectual property protection for certain industries. below what it is in the united states. and i think that's the problem. so the solution to this is transparency. and if there's transparency in what is being negotiated, then we can make those judgments for ourselves. right now, everybody has to go on what they think is in there and what wikileaks puts in the paper and that's a tough way to do business. >> jerry reed, there's hillary clinton saying in the softest terms, pretty neutral about this, noncommittal. she sounded like a senator who hasn't decided how she's going to vote on it. when she was secretary of state, it was the gold standard. >> and i guess you could argue when she was secretary of state, it may not have been her position, but it's the administration's position. i'm glad she answered the question. it's been very difficult to get hillary clinton to answer a lot of questions on this listening tour she's on. because there's a quick strum after she does her eventes and
she's out of there. so i'm glad we with got any answer at all. and the challenge for the obama administration is we're arguing about something that we don't know a lot of specifics about. there's not a lot of information about the trans-pacific 6kz. tp)tnership. but what american workers, typically unionized workers understand is in an international leveling of wages, free trade tends to bring up the wages of our trading partners and bring down the wages of american workers. so we can never compete and win in a race to the bottom for the cost of doing business. >> well, the transwork that's been released by the senate finance committee at this stage, richard, is more details than i've ever seen the release before in negotiating these trade agreements, which have ó always been done on fast track. nothing unusual in this one. in fact, if you really compare it to the other ones procedurally, the only unusual thing is it's more open than the way this has been done in the past. >> right. look, there are labor and environmental provisions done in here.
but the fundamental disagreement for people on the left is not really about the details. it's not about transparency. it's about whether you believe in free trade deals at all. and if you believe in the global economy, if you think that a more prosperous world will lead to more demand for american goods and services, then you're going to support it. and if you fundamentally don't buy into it and you think every trade deal has driven down american wages, then you're not going to support it. and there's not much the president can do about it. the majority of public opinion, rkm though, i think, believes generally in free trade. even if these deals are on, as you know, they're not actually free. they're highly regulated. we're swapping one form of wn+;÷ regulation for another. and it's more free, but it's not actually free. there are every single industry has lobbied one way or another. in this case, labor and environmental groups are also at the table with their provisions, too.cecl so is it the best deal? no. is it better than what we've seen before? almost certainly, yes. >> david frum, where are the
republican presidential candidates on this? >> they're all going to be for it. they will have some reservations, some elements, but i don't think there is a protectionist republican in the race. and what is even more missing -- i'm going to ask where are the democrats. once there is a dream that the united states ajibed to for the 30 or 40 years after world war ii which is global free trade, multi lateral arrangements, the general agreement on trade and terror. that has become impossible. partly because of the united states and partly because of china. so you have these section by section region by region agreements. and the hope is somehow that out of these regional agreements, you can build your way toward a more global structure. that hasn't been what's been happening. so we have ever more free trade agreements, but trade becomes uea ever more restricted. and we have jettisoned the idea of one planet that trades freely with itself under a common set of international rules. >> let's listen to what president obama said about nafta tonight because nafta is the thing that democratic opponents hold up against this deal.
let's listen to what he said about it. >> i think that nafta did a couple of things that were important. it integrated the north american economy, mexico and canada are important trading partners. we sell a lot of stuff to them, they sell a lot of stuff to us. the problem with nafta that i identified when i was running for senate, long before i was in the oval office, was the labor agreements and the environmental agreements were in a side letter. they weren't enforceable the same way that the business provisions were in the documents and you could actually personalize somebody if they violated them. that's fixed in this trade deal we're looking at here. >> howard dean, the nafta controversy just bedevils this congress. and president obama, when he says he identified problems with nafta when he was running for senate, when he was running for president, he and hillary clinton both said this, if they
were re-elected, they would reopen nafta. 90 days after the president was elected to president, very, very quietly put that away. they didn't touch nafta and i didn't believe either one of them at the time would. remember at the time austin got in trouble because he communitied with the canadians, don't worry, he doesn't mean it, we won't touch nafta. the interesting thing here is, the washington governing consensus that brought us nafta and brought us some trade deals that people don't like in retrospect is saying, trust us this time. we figured it out and we got it right. >> actually, i was supportive of nafta at the time and i believe it raised the family incomes of mexicans and emancipate mexican women. and there's a fair amount of that that has actually happened. mexico is mow the 20th strongest economy in the world. it is a good thing for america to have two strong economies on either side of it. i supported nafta at the time under president clinton and i'm
not sorry i did. but i worry about what has been given to multicultural corporations. so i think the solution is, in fact, transparency and that's what we're going to have to happen and that's what's going to be required to get this thing through congress. when we come back, scott walker is now trying some tough new talk on immigration and mitch mcconnell has finally agreed to bring loretta lynch's nomination for attorney general to a vote. can you believe that, joy?9uww >> there's going to be a vote. and we see no reason to stop. so cvs health is creating industry-leading programs and tools that help people stay on medicines as their doctors prescribed.
parties with prostitutes paid for by drug cartels, the head of the dea has not, surprisingly, announced her resignation. michelle has led the agency since 2007. after she testified before members of the house government oversight reform committee, members released a statement saying they had, quote, no confidence in her. up next, loretta lynch will finally get a vote on her nomination for u.s. attorney general. anyone have occasional constipation diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these occasional digestive issues... with 3 types of good bacteria. live the regular life. phillips'
hey buddy, you're squashing me! liquid wart remover? could take weeks to treat. embarrassing wart? dr. scholl's freeze away wipes 'em out fast with as few as one treatment. freeze away! dr. scholl's. the #1 selling freeze brand. do you believe the ohm way to finish the trafficking bill was to tie it into loretta lynch's nomination and looking back, are you happy with the way that strategy worked? >> yeah, i'm happy with it.
i said from the beginning to the end that we would take up the attorney general nominee just as soon as we finished trafficking. >> so joy reid, they have a deal on how to proceed on this so-called sex trafficking bill, which is what mitch mcconnell said had to be done first. now we're going to get to the nomination. >> the problem for mitch mcconnell is no one is going to remember anything about that trafficking bill. all people are going to remember is the agony over getting loretta lynch in place. could this have been litigated in an actual hearing or whether this was just petulance on the part of the republican party? i think it's smart they're finally ending this. get it over before something catastrophic happens. good for them for finally ending their own self-inflicted agony. >> that filibuster could have become overcome. there's enough to filibuster pit i think the parties need to conclude a treaty, that the president should be served by
the people the president wants. barring incompetence, barring scandal, the president should have his or her cabinet. when you're this far out from the election, don't know who is going to win, we need to re-establish that as a norm of american politics. whether it's president clinton or president walker or president bush, it should be understood, barring something extreme, they get the attorney general they want, they get the secretary of defense they want, these are their people and they should be served by the people they want. >> would you make that deal, howard, if you were a senate leader? >> i don't know what's in the deal. >> the deal that says when the president picks his nominees for cabinet position, we're going to let you have that vote. >> in general, yes. again, there have been some people who have been extraordinarily extreme that have been chosen.
and who i would resist. but in general, i do think, especially -- >> why wouldn't you be satisfied, hourly, with just voting against that person? >> well, because some of the people that have been proposed have been so extreme as to endanger the country. you know, i don't want to litigation some of the past things that have gone on, but there have been people who had to withdraw because of their critical weres so far below rapport because of some silly gotcha statement that somebody found something that they said something foolish 15 years before. if the president chooses somebody who is extreme or out there, the president will pay a political price if that person doesn't function in awesome. i remember john ashcroft. the president should be served by the people he wants. other than demonstrating incompetence. >> in general, you're right. positions like attorney general have a huge effect on what can go wrong and significant
independence for the president, for example, an area that you have to look at. this case is not that case. loretta lynch has been approved by the judiciary committee. so this is pure petulant politics.2$rps >> richard wolf, there's a term now on immigration policy. he wants to sound really tough because he didn't sound tough enough before. let's listen to what he said to glenn beck about this. >> in terms of legal immigration, what we need to approach going forward is saying we will make adjustments for the next president and the next congress needs to make decisions about a legal immigration system that's based on first and foremost protecting american workers and american wages because that -- the more i
>> this sounds like a glide into the stuff zone.%r>i óñu >> i -- i don't know which side he is coming in from here. >> would you say he's against legal immigration? >> it sounds like pretty much against it. you know, it's -- obviously, there is a sort of working vote that he's trying to articulate here. clearly, he's going to lose the business interest, as well, for the republican party. there is a nice umbrella here with watching hillary clinton try to thread the needle on the
free movement of capital. republicans don't want a free movement of labor. i guess there's a parallel there, but the politics of this one, it's going to be very, very difficult for scott walker. honestly, if this is the dynamic in the republican primaries, they're going to be outdoing each other to be tougher and tougher on immigration and that's bad for the republican party in general. >> a few republican senators jumped out on this immediately, arlen hatch saying that's classic poppycock. he said you can always point to some negatives, but the positives are we need an awful lot more s.t.e.m. people. >> john mccain, i think most statistics show they fill part of the workforce that are much needed. we need these people in the workforce legally. so they don't want to see scott walker getting carried away in that direction. >> absolutely. and for two reasons. first of all, the business interests that are very, obviously very important in the
republican party actually want to somewhat increase the number of those specialized that do bring science and technology experts, keep people who go to graduate school here and give them incentive to stay. but the second part is, no matter what you're saying and how you're parsing it, this rhetoric does come across as anti-immigrant in an ethnic way that is bad for the republican party. whether or not you're specifically talking about them. even within the black voting cohort as the daughter of immigrants, i will tell you that there is a part of the black cohort that is caribbean based, that is african based that hears that and hears you talk about them. because you have a lot of caribbean and african immigrants who come to this country to go to school, to go to engineering school and, doctor school and that hurts republicans with the one piece of the black electorate and they won't even entertain talking to them. >> i'm going to put authenticity points on joy. it isn't my pareb'bmu$o were born in the united states, it's me.
i was born in canada. the united states is about to pass the highest level of foreign-born in the population in american history, higher than in 1913. immigration woes are at historically unprecedented levels. it is -- we are not talking about a small change in american lie. we are talking about a dramatic change that is ongoing and accelerating. and a lot of people have concerns about it. and one wouldn't want to say it's the only cause of the stagnation in american wages over the past 40 years that have coincided with the era of new mass immigration, but it's certainly not unrelated to it. scott walker is pointing his finger. the problem is not just the illegality of the immigration. it's how much immigrants does an industrialized society need and if wages are not indication of the supply of labor, supply and demand, that the stagnation of wages tells us that labor is not in short supply in the united
states. except, by the way, the huge gap between the wages of the -- of ordinary workers and ceos suggest maybe what you need is free immigration of ceos. obviously, if their wages are an indication, they're in terribly short supply. so mid level workers, no shortage pressure from them.< >> the foreign-born richard wolf needs to get in the last word here. >> one immigrant to another. why would we compete for international stars but not compete for high skilled workers? we train people at the finest educational institutions around the world and then you want to let them go? appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, a california woman says she plans to sue after a deputy u.s. marshal snatched her cell phone, destroyed her property.
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>> sources tell nbc news that what beatriz paez were officers from multiple agents respond to go a report of a biker gang meeting in los angeles county. beatriz paez says she decided to pull out her cell phone camera and record what she was seeing. what happened next with one u.s. deputy marshal is why her attorney says she was now filing a lawsuit.u,ñ >> the pold jp [ indiscernible ].38:j.ku1l
[ bleep ]. [ bleep ]. [ bleep ]. >> so the lesson is, if you're going to video the police, make sure someone is videoing you.b the u.s. marshal service and the los angeles county sheriff's department are now reviewing that video you just saw. up next, protesters take the streets in baltimore tonight after another controversial death at the hands of police. you can call me shallow... but,
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paper towels. but the roll just disappeared. bounty is 2x more absorbent so one roll lasts longer. bounty. the long lasting quicker picker upper. hey buddy, you're squashing me! liquid wart remover? could take weeks to treat. embarrassing wart? dr. scholl's freeze away wipes 'em out fast with as few as one treatment. freeze away! dr. scholl's. the #1 selling freeze brand. the justice department announced today that it has opened an investigation into the death of 25-year-old freddie gray who was taken to the hospital with a severed spinal cord some 45 minutes after the moment of his arrest by baltimore police. the department of justice will investigate possible civil rights violations by the officers involved in freddi's gray arrest. he died after a week in a coma. today, the baltimore police department released the names of
six officers who were suspended because of their involvement. the city of baltimore has paid out nearly $6 million in judgments and settlements involving cases of police excessive use of force and civil rights violations in the last four years. and for the fourth day, hundreds of peaceful protesters gathered in front of a local police station. joining us now is neal franklin, a former training commander for the baltimore police force. also joining us, brandon scott, vice chairman of the baltimore city council. counselor scott, we have the names and i'm going to read them of the names of the people who have been suspended. lieutenant brian rice, officer caesar goodson, sergeant alicia white, officer william porter, officer garrett miller, officer edward nero. we don't have any idea who at this stage did what in that arrest. but what are you hoping for as the next round of public revelation?
what should we look for as the next source of information that brings us closer to what happened there? >> well, we know that in maryland we have a police officer civil rights that precludes information from being shared from particular times. so we're hoping at this case moves forward, the out of state gets this case, the justice department gets this case examine the police department is able to share information, we're hoping the blank spots will get filled in. when did this individual request medical attention? when did the police department call them? where are the gaps? that's what we're hoping to see moving forward. so we can start to give this family some closure so we can air out the facts of this incident and start to repair things we know are broken in our city. >> franklin, i always want to talk with police officers about this and former police officers when we see something like this on video. you're always seeing things that we don't. with all your experience,
especially in baltimore, what are you seeing on that video? what do you think you're seeing? >> well, on the video, there's really not much to analyze. i mean, you see cuffs are placed on him and he's being transported to the van. i see he's in pain. i see his legs don't appear to be working properly. on the video, i didn't see any impropriety. but my question lies with the reason for stopping him in the first place. for apprehending him in the first p$p7%ú!ecause he i think we have some constitutional issues here and that's a training issue. that's a supervision issue, as well. just running, unprovoked running by itself from the police is not a stand alone reason for reasonable suspicion or probable cause and making that stop. so that's where my question lies.
>> jerry reed, that does enforce the question of exactly at what point was his neck fractured this way? and when you see how immobile he is, it is entirely possible that it has already happened before they're putting him in that van. i mean, i'm not sure what he's be capable of, what that will do to the throat, i just don't know. but that's going to be ultimately the big legal question is when and how did that happen? >> when and how did it happen? we also do know if he had some sort of spinal injury when he was on the ground, the worst thing you can do to somebody who has had a back injury is to lift them up and to force themçhu e vertical and to move them around in that way. normally we see people immobilized and put on to a stretcher and really immobilized and left on the ground. so just lack of a basic sense of either medical training or concern and the fact that he was dragged to his feet and put into the van. yesterday you guys were asking
the question about what happened in the van? i think it's more important what happened on the ground and whether that injury happened before he was placed in the van. the manner in which he was moved could have injured him even more. i think the callousness of the way he was treated is shocking on that video. the fundamental question, why can't we be told what it is that he was being pursued for and arrested for? that is so important. because if it was just because he looked funny to the officers and ran away, then i think we have some serious constitutional issues. >> i think it's obvious, first w wñ of all, that he was injured when he was being taken to the van. and if you do have a spinal cord injury, it is going to progress during the ride in one of these vans. and we, as police, have a duty of care for someone who is in our custody. we are trained to deal with that. we're trained to seek attention, immediate attention for them and they know there's a huge gap in time when he finally did get the attention that he needed.
but it was too late by then. >> and just to add in, i think that also what we have to realize is that we're dealing with the state of maryland wherecv÷9q there was a huge push, even from the mayor and other folks around our state, community organizers to change the police officer's bill of rights in maryland. but none of that legislation was passed this year. so we have to realize that. for me, having the police department and the deputy commissioners before me earlier today talking about this incident and also about why we don't have cameras in our van, we're going to have police body cameras, but also as a city we're told they were going to get new vans because of safety issue. have we done that? á also do we need to have vans inside those cameras so we can see without a doubt that's what is happening. >> i think those cameras are important, but i think the key here is to first prevent these things from happening.d,
you know, so that's training. that's first line supervision. you know, that's courageous leadership. and making sure all these things take place. but when we get to the point of cameras, don't get me wrong, i think they're needed, but when we get to that point, it's too late. >> thank you all for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >> thanks for having me. before you go, when did you first hear the term african-american? when do you think it came into our usage? >> that is a great question. it was black when i was a kid. african-american feels like it happened sometime in either the late '80s/early '90s. that's exactly what it feels like to me and that's wrong. by about 200 years. we discovered today, and that's what we're going to talk about next. ligent driver-assist systems. it recognizes pedestrians and alerts you. warns you about incoming cross-traffic.
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portugal began the african slave trade in europe about 50 years before columbus arrived in the americas. the portuguese called their slaves negros. the portuguese word for "black." when african slaves were first brought to the americas, they called themselves africas, but the slave masters called them negros. that was the official name and that held for three centuries, eventually yielding some space for the use of the word colored. the national association for the advancement of colored people was established in 1909, the united negro college fund was established in 1924. then came the civil rights movement and their words, negro, and colored, would no longer do. in the mid 1960s, white america was hearing for the first time the proud declaration, black is beautiful. and with the right to vote
finally secured, it was time for black power. negro and colored were rewritten to simply black. negro and colored remained in the names of some of the older organizations, but they otherwise disappeared from the written or spoken word in america. after 20 years of black, jesse jackson and some other scholars decided in the late 1980s, that it was time for the final name change to african-american.÷t at a news conference, jesse james called african-american pass proper descriptive term.o=a he said just as we're called colored, but were not that, and then negro, but not that, to be called black is just as baseless. black tells you about skin color and what side of town you live on. african-american evokes discussion of the world. jesse jackson went on to say that day, every seth nick group in this country has a reference
to some land base, some historical cultural base. roger wilkins, ten years older that jesse jackson and one of the leaders of the civil rights movement, embraced the change to african-american in 1989. he told isabelle wilkerson for the "new york times" report, whenever i go to africa, i feel like a person with a legitimate place to stand on this earth. this is the name for all the feelings i've had all these years. and so, it is understandable that people like me, people like joy reid who you just heard, who lived through some of those name changes think of african-american as being nd7r claimed sometime in the 1980s. we now know that that's wrong by about 200 years. thanks to a report by jennifer schuessler in today's "new york times." we now know that the first recorded use of the term %f),j "african-american" was 1782.
it was found recently by ed shah peer roy, associate director at the yale school library who discovered an advertisement in the "pennsylvania journal" qko announcing a sale of printed copies of two sermons written by the african-american. one on the capture of lord cornwallis. mr. schapiro enlisted help to find a copy of one of those sermons. the sermon at holton library at harvard university. here is the cover page. sermon on the capture of the lord corn wallis by an african-american, philadelphia, printed in the month of april 1782. such are the treasures residing at harvard's hilton library, many of them still patiently
waiting for a scholar to discover their historical significance. we don't know if this was the first printed use of the phrase african-american, but it is now the first one we know about and we know nothing, nothing, about the african-american. through the "new york times," mr. shah pair row says was it a freeman? was it a slave? we don't know. we don't really know if the african-american was actually a man. but he probably was. and when the author refers to himself in the third person, he uses the word he. on the first page of the sermon, the author mentions, quote, not having the full benefit of a liberal education. that's all we know about the author. but i think we know that the author must have heard every term that americans use to describe in including the most d2-ñ demeaning and hateful terms.
but in defiance of that portuguese word, negro, it was the most polite word anyone ever used to describe the author he 0v%/g chose -- he chose -- how to describe himself without the benefit of a liberal education, without the benefit of a civil rights movement, without the benefit of a black power movement or a consciousness raising movement or the thoughtful cultural coaching of jesse jackson and others. without the benefit of all of that, the author chose 233 years ago to call himself, proudly, an african-american. anyone have occasional constipation diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these occasional digestive issues... with 3 types of good bacteria. live the regular life.
wesley bell is on the far right, a professor and local magistrate and was on this program following the killing of michael brown. half of the six-member city council is now african-american, a first in the council's 120-year history. up next, how fake meat -- this is true -- could help save the planet. i care deeply about the gulf. i grew up in louisiana. i went to school here.
i've been with bp ever since. today, i lead a team that sets our global safety standards. after the spill we made two commitments. to help the gulf recover and become a safer company. we've worked hard to honor both. bp has spent nearly 28 billion dollars so far to help the gulf economy and environment. and five years of research shows that the gulf is coming back faster than predicted. we've toughened safety standards too. including enhanced training... and 24/7 on shore monitoring of our wells drilling in the gulf. and everyone has the power to stop a job at any time if they consider it unsafe. what happened here five years ago changed us. i'm proud of the progress we've made both in the gulf and inside bp.
for meat and dairy products being wasted is much smaller. the use represented by that use is far greater. you use vastly more land and other resources to produce a meat and dairy product than you do your vegetable garden. >> just last night, i was at a barbecue and there were all these extra hamburgers. for each one of those hambergers, the water that went into producing it is equivalent to taking a 90-minute shower. >> that is a clip from a documentary just eat it. a food waste story which premiers tomorrow night on msnbc at this hour. the biggest contributor of methane into our atmosphere in the united states is our cow
population and virtually every policy proposal for limiting greenhouse gas emissions in the united states is cows are rarelyxñpk included as part of the problem. tonight, president obama is said he is hoping to increase our cow population. >> we produce food better than anybody else does. and other countries want it. but in order for to us be able to sell our beef in japan, we've got to be able to pry open those markets. >> meat production uses a hugely disproportionate share of resources, 6.7 pounds of grain and 52.8 gallons of water go into a quarter pound of burger. that is why the inventors of twitters and others are investing in companies trying to invent fake meat. in an article, it's hard, in u3vk
fact, to find a tech billionaire who hasn't invested in a protein alternative 245 aims to stamp out factory farming. they all recognize the realities ofé3l0he market. everybody buys burgers. joining us now is award winning food writer corey connell. he's senior editor of "the atlantic." korby, you were telling me about this when you were writing the piece. the title now, "the problem with fake meat," is the problem the taste? >> i think the probably is you're trying to do it all. why are you give up meat do you want something else? but the fact is, people really want beef. they're going to eat burgers. bill gates, he posted something just today. i'm so glad you mentioned bill gates. today on his own website, bill gates said should we eat meat? the answer is in this country, probably no. in africa where he does a lot of work probably yes because it's going to help build bodies 12 ways. but not if you can make the choice.
so there's lots of companies including in legislation beyond the company i wrote about that bill gates and the founder of the twitter have invested in. >> i was a vegetarian for decades. bill gates is not telling me to come back. is bill gates going back to vegetarianism with? >> i don't know. but he does talk about the ridiculously inefficient method of raising cows, which the president says of course we do want access to other markets, but it's a very inefficient way of -- >> i heard him say that tonight. we're producing more meat than we ready need in our diet necessary this country and what we're going to see tomorrow night in this hour is we're wasting. i mean, when you're wasting the amount of food that we waste in this country, that's the proof right there, in your waste of how much expressive production
you already have here. >> 38% to 40% of the food produced. >> and now we want to ship out more beef to japan and elsewhere around the world. >> it's sort of wrong to keep eating beef. i think what it's right to do is support alternative sources of protein. what i'd like to do is see it taste a little better. >> that's the challenge. in that industry, that's the magic formula. you have to come up with something that someone eats and says, oh, my god, that's better or as good as my favorite burger. >> and what we've got now is something that's as good as most burgers. >> that's where we are, at good as? >> yeah. so when i was in los angeles and@q5 i asked themakers of beyond me, they were ready -- >> beyond me? >> i said beyond me, your beef burger, i'm happy to taste it, but it's not going to make sense to me unless you give it to me t so i had a plain super market u?=vm ground beef and i thought, my goodness, this stuff tastes like
nothing. it's terrible. so if they're trying to match super market ground beef, i'd say they're doing a pretty good job. >> but how about the best bergers out there, are they still way ahead of the synthetic? >> they're not really way ahead. >> in taste? >> nope, not even in taste.ouwa so i went to a fancy restaurant in los angeles where i had this fantastic porter house steak. it's going to take years and decades and maybe a century to come up with a program that's as good as that. but then they serve these kobe sliders. the burger, scrape everytzl>í away. >> so your bet is bill gates is going to get a return on his investment on fake meat down the road here, that it's going to work? >> oh, yeah. and i think it's going to do better for the environment, do better for people and this is coming. >> korby, thank you very much. again, tomorrow night in this time slot, just eat it.
a food waste story. that's going premier and be followed by a special discussion with msnbc food correspondent tom cholicchio. the president plays "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. i've just come from washington where i spoke with president obama about the threat of iran and the news that we have u.s. warships that could intercept an iranian's weapons convoy off the coast of yemen, that and putin's decision to advanced surface-to-air missiles to the iranians that could be used to guard nuclear weapons. we begin tonight with the president's declaration of war on his own left led by senator elizabeth warren. >> i love elizabeth. we're allies on a whole host of issues, but she's wrong on this,