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tv   MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts  MSNBC  April 30, 2015 10:00am-12:01pm PDT

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police report will not be made public. it's up to the states's attorney marilyn mosby when to move forward. she has not given a timetable on when the report will be given. mayor blake tweeted this. quote, the family of mr. gray wants answers. i want answers. we'll remain vigilant on the path to justice. >> the second night of a curfew led to no major disturbances and followed a massive demonstration earlier in the day. a new march is scheduled for 4:00 p.m. today. it wasn't just peep in baltimore city that took to the streets. people across the country marched in solidarity calling for justice. today the washington post reporting a sealed document not seen by msnbc news says a prisoner shared the van ride
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with mr. gray and heard him banging on the walls of the van saying he was intentionally trying to injury himself. the prisoner was separateaccept separated by gray with a metal peace. there's no evidence to support that prisoner in's claims. we want to get to it for the first time. msnbc is getting a look at what freddie gray was going to be charged with. joy, you have the charging documents. what are they? >> absolutely. essentially one of the questions people have been asking fundamentally about freddie gray is one, why was he stopped? and is two, what was he going to be charged with? the charging document does give us the answer. freddie gray was going to be charged, according to a document submitted to the district court of maryland for the city of baltimore, with possession of a switchblade. unlawfully carrying or selling a
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knife commonly known as a switchblade with automatic spring or device for opening and closing. the question we're still trying to look into is what would have been the probable cause for the stop because the narrative in this documentk thomas states that the switchblade was found once he was stopped. the actual narrative written by the police officer says that freddie gray fled unprovoked upon noticing police presence. that was according to this charging document the reason for the initial stop. once the defendant was apprehended, the officer noticed the knife was clipped in his front right pocket. two questions this raises is number one, whether or not there was probable cause for the officers to stop gray in the first place before they noticed the switchblade.
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and of course now we know he would have been charged with the switchblade violation. we're trying to look up the statue to find out what kind of violation that. it says the penalty is one year and/or $500 fine. thomas? >> reporter: all right so that was joy anne reed for reporting. forgive me for a brief pause. i had miscommunication with my ear piece not working now. i'm going to wing it from here forward. luckily i have the brilliant with me. >> i can't hear anything but you. >> reporter: that's all we need now. joy anne giving us the report
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about charging documents freddie gray. to make sure we had this properly read by joy an a, talking about the officer noticed a knife clipped to the inside of his front right pants pocket. the knife was recovered. this was first brought to our attention and papers that joy an reed a had exclusively gotten. now the other news is the fact there's now an undisclosed stop that's reported. that would make four stops in the general neighborhood of san town and western baltimore before taking gray to the police district. >> exactly. one of the things i thought was interesting is police said about how they discovered the stop it was a personal camera that provide had the information. so to me it says someone came forward, someone in the public cooperating with police, came forward and provided them that video. most of the videos on your phone are time stamped.
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that would give authorities clear indication of when this occurred in the route the police were taking. >> reporter: what else we know is the fact there are many cameras positioned throughout the western district of baltimore on these streets. we've been out there and seen them. they've got eyes on the corners. they're watching everybody. it seems odd that they wouldn't have had a proper tracking of the vehicle or admission any way from the police that there were four stops made. >> reporter: it's something i suspect people on the street will be curious to also. many people object to cameras in the neighborhood too much of big brother watching them. in times it assists police being aware of activity on the street they didn't have it. cameras didn't turn up this
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video. a personal camera gave them the information. >> reporter: all right, so another track to this entire story was the fact there were different arrests made since the chaos broke out. juveniles were taken in, none that have records. you were inside juvenile court and met a dad waiting for his son to be processed. the son talked act his arrest. explain what you heard. >> reporter: he sure did. 16-year-old man, no criminal record. he's one of 25 juveniles according to the juvenile detention officer. none of those had criminal records. i spoke to this young man about what was happening that night. listen to what he had to say. i can't hear this myself. if someone would give me indication when the sound is -- when finished with the sound. let's listen to what he said. >> going into the court today, you had chains around your ankles? >> yes, ma'am. >> what was that like?
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hard? >> felt like i was going to fall. caged animal is what i felt like. like a >> like a caged animal? >> yeah. >> when your dad gives you advice in the future what are you going to do? >> take it. do what he says. yeah. >> going to listen to him. >> yeah. >> also his father is hoping so. >> reporter: he's going to take the advice of his dad. the dad said what about what his son is going through, what this means for his future? >> reporter: he does talk about it. to set this up, the father was watching the violence erupt on television that night. his first thought was his 16-year-old son. where's my 16-year-old son? he made a phone call and didn't hear what he wanted to hear. he found out his son was arrested. listen to what the father says about his son going forward. >> you're saying your son didn't have to go through this?
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>> this isn't the lifestyle i wanted him to go through at all. i try my best to not let him go through central booking, juvenile booking, any of that. i instilled in him what my parents instilled in me that i didn't listen to. i try to teach him all the time. i made mistakes enough for both of us for all of my kids. >> reporter: he seems passionate about wanting his son to learn from his mistakes. this is something obviously going to get him off track a little until they can get it sorted. >> reporter: he'll be back in front of the judge in 30 days to face charges of burglary. his father was extremely upset as you imagine any parent would be. this boy had never been in any trouble before. this turned a corner for him. the way he was treated, shackled as he said felt like a caged animal. carlos jr. says he doesn't want to go through that again. we'll have more of this young
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man and family's story on "nightly news." >> reporter: thank you for flying blind with me as we didn't have ears for a while. appreciate it. joining us now catherine pugh out last night urging protestors to obey the 10:00 curfew. >> what she's saying is it's time to go. please, i beg you. i'm not asking. i'm begging. it's very important we keep the peace. got to keep the peace. got keep the peace. >> joining me by telephone now, first thing i want to ask, why do you feel it's important for you to be on the streets with people enforcing the curfew? >> caller: these are my people. these are my neighborhoods. i've been on the streets everyday from monday to present. i want baltimore to understand and they do that we can protest
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peacefully. all of us want justice for mr. gray. i want them to be patient so we can get a thorough investigation. we just learned new additional information this morning that nobody knew about another stop. i talked to congressman carnes last night and asked him about the federal investigation that's going forward. learned that loretta lynch is very much into this investigation. it also raises so many other questions as it relates to so many young men being incarcerated at such young ages and so many folks in the custody of police. we don't ever want to hear of another situation like this again. not in baltimore, not in maryland not in united states. it was important -- >> reporter: learning the fact -- learning the fact there was another stop undisclosed we did not know before this adds a
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bruise about the talk of transparency we've been expecting from the mayor or police commissioner. do you expect the -- >> caller: no. no i think this adds to the transparency transparency. folks know this is going to come out through social media. we want all the information so that folks that need to be brought to justice will be brought to justice. >> reporter: but it seems to be the only way we're getting transparency is the fact that there are citizen journalist with their phones that are capturing this. we expect this transparency from the people that we have sworn an oath to protect and serve this community. now we're getting the statement of charges -- just real fast the statement of charges that the defendant was apprehended and took off on a brief foot chase. the officer noticed a knife
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clipped to his right front pants pocket. the defendant was arrested without force or incident. this is the police report. without force or incident. the knife was recovered. do you think that this release, in hearing how they drafted this statement of charges, is going to impact the mood on the street tonight? >> caller: my prayer is that it does not because i think that -- i think that people will understand -- i think the media knows. these kinds of investigations don't happen in a short period of time. it's now at the state attorney's office. when we talk about criminal justice reforlm, i don't know how we can rely on one investigation in this situation. we need to make sure we have federal investigations. when we talk about police reform when a local jurisdiction is involved in an incident where someone is killed at the hands of police or hurt
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at the hands of police that that ought to automatically induce a state investigation or federal prosecutors brought in at that a particular point in time. that's investigation i'm looking for. i think that's something that we need to have across the board. every state. >> state senator, katherine pugh, thank you for taking time to join me. i'm sure we'll see you back out there tonight before the third night of mandatory 10:00 p.m. curfew. thank you. we examined the washington post report saying freddie gray caused his spinal cord injury himself. how likely is that? we're going to speak to the forensic pathologist about what this could mean. we'll talk to stars from hbo "the wire" about his experience with the baltimore police. you'll hear why williams calls his arrest unfair and brutal. and the video that has everyone talking on social media.
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it's the baltimore mom who goes and gets her son. now they're speaking out together about what really happened that day. ♪ ♪ ♪ if you can't put a feeling into words, why try? at 62,000 brush movements per minute philips sonicare leaves your mouth with a level of clean like you've never felt before giving you healthier gums in just two weeks. innovation and you. philips sonicare. [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, we know in the cyber world, threats are always evolving. at first we were protecting networks. then, we were protecting the transfer of data. and today it's evolved to infrastructure... ♪ ♪
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hi everybody. welcome back to baltimore where msnbc obtained freddie gray's charging documents. we can see exactly what police describe the situation to be when they made eye contact with someone they thought was suspicious freddie gray. we're learning about another stop the police van made the day freddie gray was arrested. joining me wbal investigative reporter jane miller. we've got this information in
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front of us now. >> actually thomas this is very important. we've done stories on this already. >> this is the catalyst of what this means. >> this is the charging document for the arrest from april 12th. the controversy of this in itself is the whole thing. it's very much part of the investigation too. the question is did police a, have probable cause to chase him? and b, once they stopped him, did they have probable cause to seize him? seizing is the taking him into custody. putting him on the pavement, handcuffing him, putting him in custody it's not until they seize him they find the knife. >> also arrest without force or incident. >> my understanding is there are witnesses that he stopped. he was originally out of breath because he had been running and was like okay, you got me. >> during the transport, the defendant suffered a medical emergency and immediately
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transferred to shock trauma via medic. how many stops through your investigative reporting are you able to confirm have been made? >> i know there are at least five meaning the original stop. i believe -- i was not privy to working on something. >> the new undisclosed stop is at free mont. >> that was before drid hill and dolphin. that suggests -- we are pretty confident that the incident whatever happened to cause this injury happened between the time he was shackled which is stop number two baker street and druid hill and dollphin. this makes sense there's another stop. the van driver suspected something was wrong. now he gets to druid hill and dolphin. he calls for other officers to
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come check the prisoner. >> now that we have the new undisclosed location added into the mix -- >> correct. >> you have also been reporting conflicting narratives and taking the washington post story they reported apart. >> i'm not taking "the washington post" on. they're correct they're reporting from a document. there's a search warrant affidavit written and signed by a police officer in order to search a particular piece of property as this piece of the investigation. it says the second prisoner picked up much later in the run told investigators he heard banging on the van wall. that gets put into the context of he was banging his head against the van and injured himself. what we have been very consistent in reporting is first of all, you can't see in the van. >> right. there's a partition.
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for viewer there's a left and right side that goes straight down the middle. >> correct. this is no evidence from the autopsy that suggests any other injury. if somebody is banging their head against the van, there's got to be injury. there's none of that. the autopsy finding is the injury is solely related to the broken neck and the starting the severance of spine. >> say that again. the autopsy shows no evidence -- >> there's no evidence of any other injury. there's not a crushed voice box. there's not -- it's all related to -- it's similar to a car accident where you have force. it's the kind of injury that requires force, energy. when you're in a car accident and a car comes to a stop and your head slams against something, that's the kind of injury we're talking about. medical experts told me if you
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had an individual banging his head against the bad, he'd have of injuries. >> does that make you suspicious about the way he was taken down by bike officers -- >> there's no evidence of injury except the neck injury. there's no broken bones bruises, striking of anything that would indicate he got into it with police officers. just none. this is a case that has -- actually there's been another case involving a prisoner transport where it's almost the identical injury of this particular type of severe spinal injury. >> did they survive? >> no. died a week later. maybe two weeks later. >> i'm going to ask you to stand by. we're going to bring in a pathologist. doctor explain the type of force it does take as jane was explaining a car accident type of force to break a spine. >> you would require a significant amount of force to fracture three vertebrae.
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remember this is a 25-year-old man with strong bones. this is not an 85-year-old woman with osteoporosis. the velocity would be very important here. how could he get up that velocity within the van to move his body around and hurl it against a part of the van with such force and severity to produce fractures of that magnitude? you and your colleague have pointed out, and i concur there's no way you would bang your head against a firm object without producing extensive contusions if indeed not lacerations also. so all of that points to a basis to negate this absurd comment and speculation by someone that this prisoner did this to himself. let me say this.
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unless this man were suffering from paranoid schizophrenia with delusions, severe depression under the influence of hallucinating drugs, that you come up with this. we have someone that had injury before he went into the van. you and i know there's police officers or an officer kneeling into his back. i think a that produced a beginning fracture. he's in the van and it is moving. he's unrestrained. there's no hand rails to grab hold on. the body is moving. whether the van is deliberately speeding up or negligently or necessarily speeding up for whatever reason. that body is an inert object.
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the fractures are now producing a severing of the spinal cord. that's the only way this could have happened. there's no way in the world this man would have been able to hurl himself up inside the van and cause those types of injuries. ridiculous. >> thank you sir. let me ask you one more time. we don't have video initial take down. >> correct. we have no information available to us that there was any type of rough take down. >> this says without force and incident. on the video where we see him taken off, his body has gone limp. >> the procedure used when he's on the ground you see and he's moaning is a standard procedure that all police departments use. it hurts. there's no question. get your hands behind your back. they pull your legs up. this is to keep you from trying to flee or fight with them. if you look at the video
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carefully and the last few frames, you see a he puts his feet under him, stands on his own power, gets into the van on his own power. if he had broken his mechanicneck, the evidence does not suggest that. >> the police side says this is typical behavior. >> absolutely. he was whining. he was irate. they stop at the next stop and put the shackles on him. once they put the shackles on him, they have taken an adult and made him a vulnerable adult. that's an important term in a case like this. you have care and custody standards as a police officer. you've got a guy in the back of your van shackled and handcuffed but can't hold himself. if the van turns sharply or stops -- >> like doctor wex said. he's got that energy. that's what medical experts tell us the break he suffered
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requires injury. >> you have new information you'll be sharing? >> later. we'll talk about that later. >> we look forward to. that wbar investigateive reporter. thank you. >> thanks. >> we want to know how you feel about what you've just heard. it's our bing question today. francis rivera has more on that. >> just an interesting discussion especially when dr. wex throws out words like observed and ridiculous as far as the notion that freddie gray injured himself. we're asking viewers to weigh in. what do you think? did freddie gray injure himself? go to to vote. let us know how you feel. we launched the poll at the start of the hour 30 minutes ago. here's the score board how you're responding and weighing in. close to being split. this is interesting to watch in the course of our next hour. 49% say no you don't think
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freddie gray injured himself. 51% of you say actually he did. we invite you as this conversation continues to go ahead and weigh in. to look at responses, it went up 50/50. the conversation we just had especially with the doctor pathologist, may have changed the way you view this based on the report that cited the inmate in the van that claimed he might have been hitting his head or hurting himself. look. in the last couple of minutes, more of you overall say no versus three minutes ago before 1:25 some of you spiking towards yes. keep votes we'll bring you responses later. >> okay francis. i appreciate it. one of the stars from hbo "the wire" filmed here says he has first hand experience with
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the baltimore police. we'll talk to him about his arrest he says was definitely unfair and brutal.
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go get help. go get help! right now! if you're a cat, you ignore people. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance you switch to geico. it's what you do. go on kitty, kitty... this is our city. when things like this happen we like to come up and bring hope to the community. we're not only passing out toiletries and food items, we're passing out hope. >> so brandon williams and baltimore ravens players today taking a briefer time to break away from practice and help out an elementary school and food pantry. organizers at food pantry says
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lines are longer than usual because markets have been turned upside down where so many go to get their everyday needs. the freddie gray investigation is now in the hands of the states attorney marilyn mosby. she gave this quote a moment ago. host of the cycle on msnbc joins me on baltimore. toure, what are you hearing from people you've had the opportunity to speak to today? >> reporter: thomas a lot of people saying they did not respect the report to come out tomorrow. they're full of cynicism about the system. they did not expect the report to find fault with police
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themselves. they expect it to come out in a slow way to keep everyone calm. on the corner here where you spent a lot of time vibrancy\e bran more and more people coming out. the police presence at this corner is calming down. a lot of police officers have left over the last hour. a lot of cruisers have left over the last hour. so the police again showing restraint and wanting to deescalate the situation. the community returning back to normal. again, the sort of cynicism you see in this community when they're like we didn't expect police to come report and find fault with their own folks. you see a lot of that. >> and toure, also the information today, the new information about another stop being made public. is that through public circles
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where you are? >> reporter: well people are talking a lot about the notion the report about freddie gray being part of injuring himself. they don't believe that at all. it's angering folks. do you think we're stupid believe that sort of thing? it's breaking down the sense of trusting this investigation and folks giving this information. it is sort of going a long way to say why should we trust the system at all? >> reporter: all right toure reporting on the streets in west baltimore for us specifically. thanks so much. we want to encourage you to keep it here on msnbc. you'll see more of toure's report on "the cycle" at 3:00 p.m. eastern time. the co creator of "the wire" has a take on the devastating situation. he said sometimes crew members
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would rap in the 1:00 in the morning and get pulled over. one ended up at city jail with no charge. "the wire" was a hit show on hbo five seasons. two former cast members of "the wire." one played the character of brody. jd let me start with you first. what was it like working on the set of "the wire" and hearing simon hearing that several actors would be pulled over after a late night of filming. is that accurate? >> absolutely accurate. after absorbing this over the last few days, i decided to approach it on it twitter. i wrote that myself and other actors were arrested for minor infraction, nothing at all.
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held for eight to ten hours and let go without a type of charge or even a reason. i did get a chance to read mr. simon's article. it was great and so honest. it's just something for people like us, and i'm sure felicia can agree since she's from baltimore. you'll end up agreeing with his viewpoint. you'll see the proof. >> felicia let's talk about that. you did grow up here know the city well. you've seen in interviews you knew freddie gray. explain how you knew freddy and what was he like? >> freddie gray i knew him -- we weren't the best of friends or nothing like that. i knew him in passing. he'd say oh i got more girls than you or things like that. you know he was just a comedian funny. i don't know nothing about his criminal past or anything like
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that but you know he was just a fun loving person every time i came in counter with him. >> so when we hear information felicia about what's going on in baltimore right now and obviously life can imitate art that was "the wire." does it feel like the twilight zone of what you're watching on the news and tv about what's taking place with gray and police justice in baltimore? >> it just feel like a nightmare because i have a lot of family and friends in baltimore. you know like even though i'm not there just yet, i be there monday. i'll not just there yet. i'm hurt you know like -- today i was watching cnn. they said he did this to himself. how? look into my eyes how? you know how can he do that to
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himself? if this forehead or face or nothing was busted up -- i've been in patty wagons before a lot of them. i'm not proud to say that. i'm a changed person. i have been in that situation before. they don't put the seat belt on you. if they don't put the seat belt on him, you're like this in the patty wagon in the officer driving it is giving you a bumpy ride. that's what we call it. he's taking you for a ride. you know what i mean? you can't do that to yourself not in a patty wagon. come on now. i haven't been to harvard, not a doctor nothing. you know like it's evident. come on man. let's get it together man. let's find a solution please. please. to the youth out there. >> reporter: felicia, you were going to say something to youth. i don't want to interrupt that.
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>> to youth out there, you know and to the city. we can't keep blaming the youth. we have to blame ourself. first of all, baltimore city they took away our schools. they took away our recreation centers. you know like where do you push your youth at? on the corners. baltimore is small. we got four corners. you know which corner you going on? everybody that's from the hood or my community, urban community, everybody is not criminals. you know we just less fortunate, trying to make a way to get out hood, you know to make a better way. it's crazy. they need better guidance. to the youth please stop tearing up our things. you know? you can't go to a corner store to get dutch or anything. you've got to go five blocks to get anything.
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i'm just saying, don't tear up our stuff. that's not the way we supposed to go. they want us to do that so we cannot have anything. i mean we not doing it. >> reporter: great point talking to you in baltimore. i grew up over the county line. my dad lives here in the city. i know it well. i know this is not an overnight issue. >> right, it's not. >> now the city is reap what you sew. this has been decades in the making here in baltimore city. jd you tweeted about an incident. you said you took to social media. explain what you tweeted about. >> well just -- twitter you only get 140 characters. just to ex pound on it a little bit more. they have this street in baltimore, they call it the block. there's a bunch of clubs. >> yes. >> of course you know. there's clubs on the street. any way, it closes down at 2:00
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sharp. when i was down there it did. it closed at 2:00. i'm used to curfew clubs closing down. we have 1:00 or 12:00 shut off. the way they shut down the store, they were walking down the street in a line with arm ties. it was weird for me to see that formation at that time. it was so organized. of course i moved off the street standing in a door way to a food restaurant. somebody next to me standing where i was happened to say something that the police didn't like to hear. i got snatched from inside the store over the threshold into the street. i was dressed up wearing a suit minding my business. slammed right into the street. i was covered in mud. they took me in held me eight hours 2:00 to 10:00. let me out at 10:00 exactly. one of the great things about baltimore is of course the people. on the way walking home my pockets were emptied out. i didn't have my phone or money
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left. the cab driver that saw me walking, picked me up and took me home. only to say that the presence of brutality and the way the police treat the people regardless of you know any type of circumstance or any situation, i've experienced that. i've been through that type of thing at home also but i can speak definitely to that baltimore experience especially with those police officers. >> reporter: and to anybody that snows baltimore city knows the block. it's on the 400 section of east baltimore street. you know when you grow up in baltimore, you hear things about the block. people that know baltimore know the type of character that area brings to the city. we also know that where the police station is in relation to that. it's not that far away. >> excuse me. i'm sorry.
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i also really quickly tweeted about other cast members that were also arrested for like i said minor to no type of infraction at all. i brought up seth gilly. he and i were talking about something. i believe he's from new york. any way, we interact with officers a little bit differently. might have the same result at the end but interact differently. he was standing near the block. might have been on the block also. he was spoking a cigarette. cops told him to move. two words from his mouth from somebody coming from the northeast. he said what do you mean move? the cop showed him what he meant. he ended up off something as simple as that. the one arrested was hamilton i believe he does empire. he was arrest right in front of simon. they were all together. >> reporter: jd felicia, were
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you ever approached by cops and people in the city fans of your show? you were easily recognizable by the baltimore police. >> as far as i know, the people that i've met and felicia like i said is bona fide baltimore -- >> all the way -- >> people that i know from the city have loved the show. they appreciate the show. anybody i've ever heard talking about it in the negative connotation is usually for political reason or -- >> reporter: felicia, you too? >> i never heard anyone talking down about "the wire." only thing they said was why they take it off hbo? you know? and if they still had "the wire" on it would be less crime because everybody would be in the house on sunday. word up. >> reporter: i know a lot of people would be excited if they brought the wire back.
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>> can i say one thing? >> reporter: go for it real fast. >> yes, um to the community, i love y'all. i thank everyone coming out from our side of baltimore, out of town, whatever. thanks for support and positive energy. we need all that. thanks for the food just your helping hands. thank you. and new york, thank you. chicago, thank you. oklahoma thank you. i thank you all. i thank you. keep us in your prayers. we most definitely need it especially our youth. thank you. >> reporter: true. felicia and jd thank you so much. appreciate your time. >> thank you for having us. >> reporter: absolutely. coming up in the next hour we show you how the baltimore symphony is trying to help the city heal from tension this is week e. also ahead this hour the baltimore riot that captivated social media and the social a momma and her son who was participating in the riots.
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welcome back everybody. you're watching msnbc breaking news coverage in baltimore in the wake of baltimore in the city of baltimore. the curfew going into effect tonight at 10:00 p.m. we're following several new developments. one, msnbc objecttaining a document saying gray was arrested for alleged possession of a switchblade. two, the "washington post" reporting gray was trying to injure himself in the back of the police van. that story is coming under fire. and we want to find out what you think about it. we'll toss it to frances at headquarters in new york with an update on our bing pulse question of the day. this has to deal with the fact that there was a second person being transported in the back of the van for a brief period of time that said they heard freddie banging his head against the walls. >> right, they couldn't see because of the partitions in the van, but they heard freddie was
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banging his head. we're asking based on the report from the "washington post," also based on the interviews with forensic pathologists, if you think that freddie gray injured himself. let's look at a scoreboard wherever we stand so far. it is fascinating to see the results. last time, it was 50/50. look now, 89% say no freddie gray did not injure himself. 11% say yes, he did. that keeps changing. in the last couple of minutes, look at the results. overwhelmingly those of you out there who have responded are saying no. again, with our coverage as that continues, your views, opinions may change. we invite you to come back to continue to vote. if you've already voted, go ahead and do so again. the more you hear the more you might think differently. thomas? >> okay. amazing to see how the results have pivoted in a short period
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of time. thank you. we'll talk about shortly. now to the images from baltimore that sparked a conversation on social media and living rooms around the country. it was captured on video cell phone, the scene of a mom going after her son and repeatedly smacking him for taking part in the protests as they turned ugly. she wanted him off the streets and out of the protests. now that mom and her son are talking about the incident. toya graham saying she reacted out of fear because she's desperate to keep her son safe and out of trouble. >> people who that's looking in from another point can't see the struggle that we go through. i worry about him walking out my front door. i do. it's just the life that we live around here, you don't know if you walk out the door if you're going to walk back in or not. >> reporter: do you think if riots broke out again, do you think you'd go down there? >> no. i don't think i would go down there. >> reporter: are you saying that
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just because she's standing there? >> no, i'm not saying that just because you're filming me. i see that my mom cares about me. why would i want to go put myself back in the predicament, one i just got out of it? if i ever go back i'm going to do it in a positive way. >> joining me is april ryan washington bureau chief for "american urban radio." your reaction to seeing that is what? >> you want my honest reaction? >> reporter: let's do. >> i have not a problem with it. not a problem. when you have out-of-control kids, sometimes you have to go to that extent to reel your child back in. this was a life-or-death issue for her son. she didn't want another freddie gray situation. i'm a mother of two little girls here in this area. you never know. it could be me. it could have been your parents. you and i both group here. sometimes the environment is not the best and you have to make
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your child, look, there serious. it's unfortunate, but i applaud her. >> the powder keg that is the city, i mean, this hasn't happened overnight. when april and i see each other, when we know we grew up here all right, where did you go to high school? >> that's the first thing. >> that's the first thing you say when you come to baltimore. it means high school. >> it proves i grew up here. one of my high school classmates is running -- >> angela right over there. >> yeah. she saw me and said "hey april." i'm waiting for one of your classmates to show up. >> reporter: we were at the corner of north and pennsylvania. you were getting your hair done five blocks from there. >> lafayette -- fayette and division street. >> reporter: explain the resentment, though that's built up. and now it's captured the attention of america. >> the city is a city like none other. it's got greatness. i mean, a few blocks from here we have the most beautiful place in the world, the baltimore harbor. then you have the pockets of poverty. you have 32% of the children in
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this city who are in poverty. many of them have school lunches. that's the only time they eat. and i mean, you have to think why is that the scenario here. why is that the scenario? you had -- it used to be down the street where people worked, a lot of people became middle class, middle-income american that's gone. there's so much industry that's left. this town, this beautiful city. it leaves people wondering -- a lot of these people did not go to college who went to beth steel or who went to other blue-collar industries in this town. they -- they're here trying to find a way. and when you tray to find a way you try to survive. and that survival sometimes is -- is under a bit of pressure. >> reporter: have we had failed leadership for too long? >> i'm not going to say too long but failed leadership without their finger on the pulse of what's going. on there's a holistic approach
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some leaders saying they're trying to bring in to bear are saying it's not just about the condition. let's find out why the condition is the way it is and let's deal with it in a different way instead of the tough love. just pressing down and cracking down. may be a little too late now. >> all right. april ryan, thank you. seton graduate. >> cardinal -- >> reporter: our mascot. thank you. ahead, one of most powerful images from the baltimore riot. now on the cover of "time" magazine. i'll talk to the amateur photographer who snapped that photo. plus police saying the van that transported freddie gray made an additional stop. so according to our reporter at wbal that's five from beginning to end. we'll break down the timeline. what happened and when. don't forget to keep voting on our bing pulse question of the day. do you believe freddie gray injured himself in that van? the report by the "washington post." you can vote at
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northrop grumman. hi everybody i'm live in baltimore. we are following breaking news in the investigation in the death of freddie gray. msnbc obtaining the charging documents for freddie gray's arrest. according to these documents, gray fled unprovoked. noticing police presence. it said an officer noticed a knife clipped to the right front of his pants pocket. the charge sdlapgz gray did unlawfully carry, possess, and have a switchblade knife with a spring with it. police have completed their investigation. at a news conference this morning, they unveiled new information about a previously unknown stop by the police van carrying freddie gray. >> we discovered the new stop
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based on our thorough and comprehensive and ongoing review of all cctv cameras and privately owned cameras. and in fact this new stop has been -- was discovered from a privately owned camera. >> the report in the hand of the baltimore state's attorney marilyn masbee. he said "while we have and continue to leverage the information by the department we are not relying solely on their findings, rather the facts that we have gathered and verified verified." this is additional information about the additional van stop. joining me msnbc's ron alone. it's interesting to find out -- we know being in the western district as we've ben all week, there are police cameras on every corner. we know they monitor the area heavily through the video surveillance. why now are we only learning about the additional stop? >> that's a good question,
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thomas. i think it's a question a lot of people have. it's suspicious because it was a private camera something police were not aware of. they i have they discovered it through the investigation. it adds to the mistrust, the frustration, adds to the suspicion that's endemic in this community. and i think nothing short of the officers being arrested and charged, certainly satisfying a portion of the population. it's going to take time. the police are in a bad position they created the expectation that there will be finality tomorrow, may 1st. we're not going to get. that of course the police are walking that statement back now. but that's where we are. there's -- there's this -- you have mistrust and you have now the appearance of the police to some of them walking back from where they were and hiding something. so i think they have to come up with some system, some process,
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something that's very transparent, something open but of course the police as we know are constrained because of the legalities of how they have to do their job professionally and potentially prosecuting a case at some point. >> as we're talking about the legalities of this, with the charging documents out and the reveal of the report, how it was described by the officers who put this together saying that when they made eye contact, it was unprovoked. that he fled. police presence. they had a foot chase, and the officer noticed the knife clipped to the inside of his front right pants pocket. >> right. >> it really -- the catalyst that gets us to the death of freddie gray brings us back to the origin of what police thought and whether it was legal to pursue him in the first place. >> right. and what they thought, again is this issue of how are particularly young african-american men perceived. and is this racial profiling. is this being guilty -- it's
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9:in the morning i believe. is this being guilty because of who you are, where you are. and of course to be fair to the police, they have a very tough job. these are high-crime neighborhoods. they have rights, as well in terms of how they are -- now that this is an investigation, in terms of what can be revealed. the officers have the right to a fair hearing, a fair process, a fair investigation. but again, it all just to some people -- this endemic, systemic problem, it creates more frustration, more doubt, more suspicion that the police are being -- being fully transparent now that they're going about this. >> we understand that the mayor is speaking at a civil right leadership conference taking place at the reverend al sharpton in town. let's go to that. [ applause ] >> a report was delivered today -- i know that many anticipated it tomorrow -- to the state's
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attorney. now is our time for unity and to work together as the gray family has asked for, as their attorney have asked for, to seek justice for mr. gray. and i just left matthew henson elementary school. and i was joined like i said community leaders, teachers volunteers, and our ravens, and we handed out thousands of pounds of food. to a person they're concerned about their community. they want justice, and they also want peace in their neighborhood. they want to know when we're going to be able to rebuild their community. that has to be all of our focus. that has to be all of our work. and i know that we can -- we can get there. you know reverend sharpton, i was listening to you talk about that there are three
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african-american women who are pivotal in this case. and it made me think about the fact that we are on a national stage. and i'm from here, you know this. i told you. grew up the street from -- where is pastor carter? where did he go? >> right there. >> he's on -- in the back? sorry. grew up across the street. i don't have any stories to tell you about him. he was good the whole time i've known him. my parents grew up here. i wanted to serve the city of baltimore and the people of the city of baltimore since i was a child. and did everything i could to put myself in the best position to do that. went to the best high school in the city western high school. don't hate. [ applause ] [ laughter ] i went to the best college i could get to oberlin college.
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i said, if i'm going to be of service, i have to know a few things. i need to know how government works. studied government. and i need to know economics. i took 3.5 years of economics -- i don't even like economics but i said, i have to learn it if i'm going to be of service. when i left there, i went to law school. why? i thought it was person training for the work that i intended to do for my city. and as soon as i got out of law school i ran for city council. and why -- because i love this city. and i know we can be better than what we have seen. [ applause ] >> so reverend al when you were talking about the fact that we need to stop playing and get real about what's possible the reason we can't -- the reason why nothing can happen to the officers -- and again, the justice system will be what it will we want the process to go forward. innocent until proven guilty.
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we're going to do all of that. but let's stay with south carolina. even if the same thing happened because of the laws in this state, we can't do anything until after the trial is over. when i went down to annapolis to try to fight for reform -- simple reforms for the law enforcement bill of rights, people looked at me like his three eyes. to stand here and say that i don't care i don't want to reform the police department, when i was down there -- [ applause ] >> -- don't -- i'm not even going to tolerate it. the record is clear. i invited the department of justice to reform our police department, to do collaborative reform. the only thing stronger than that is if they come in and do a consent decree. nobody want the department of justice to take over our city. 9 highest form of reform, the highest level of reform that you can get before they come -- only
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reason they do a dissent decree is if you don't own up to your problems. i knife problems flea markets and i was determined to fix them. they're telling you $5 million here -- what they don't tell is it's down. police shootings, discourtesy, excessive force, lawsuits against the city we're finding more officers accused of wrong doing guilty. they don't want to tell you that part. because they don't want us to be in the victory. we will get justice for freddie gray. believe you me we will get justice. we're going to do it because we're going to work together because if with the nation watching watching three black women at three different levels can't get justice and healing nature community, you tell me where -- healing in this community, you tell me where we're going to get it in our country. i want to thank the department of justice for coming here today, community relations
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service, independent, did not -- i know -- i can't remember what you told me but i know you don't prosecute and you don't do something else. but what you do is stay in the middle and make sure the process is right and the communities are able to heal while we seek just. i want to thank you for being here. they are going to discuss at some point some training of community marshals because what we saw in baltimore were people standing up against the rioters, against the people who were looting and stealing. those people i want to thanks, and those people we want to make sure they get more resources. i want to thank the department of justice for doing that. i want to thank you for your indulgence. i know i probably talked longer than you intended me to. i want to thank you all and committed to working and doing everything in my power to help our city reach the greatness that i know in my heart that we are capable of. thank you. [ applause ]
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>> thank you. >> listening to mayor stephanie rawlings blake giving an impassioned speech about how this has impacted her and how she has wanted to be a leader since she was a little girl growing up in baltimore city. you know i've been talking about this, i grew up in baltimore, so i know. she mentioned she went to western high school and said don't hated. it's a big deal in baltimore where you go to high school. it is. if you're from baltimore, you know this. you say to somebody where did you go to school. that means where did you go to high school. i want to introduce nick mows bee, member of -- mosby, member of city council, and his wife is district attorney marilyn mosby. where did you go to high school? >> poly. >> my dad went to city. i know there's an epic football rival between the schools. let's talk about your faith in the investigation. you can't talk specifically about what social security transpired so far, it's in the hands of the state's attorney happens to be your wife. >> yeah. >> talk about your faith. >> main were surprised -- they
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developed this arbitrary timeline, the police department, where they were going to come out with a report of the information tomorrow. i think that changed a couple days ago, they said they would hand the investigation over to the state attorney's office. we found that they handed it over today. one thing i'll say they -- they did the investigation, baltimore police department, i know the state's attorney has done their own independent investigation. and they of course, the department of justice is doing a civil rights investigation. you know, i'm confident that with all the heads looking at the same information and drilling down on the same facts that the thorough investigation will be completed. we'll understand and know what took place that night. >> i don't want to put you in a biased position, but your faith in the state's attorney to get this right knowing the pressure from all different sides. >> clearly i know her more than anybody else. she's my wife. i'm totally confident in my wife. you know, i think it's
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interesting when you look around the country, you look into baltimore, the state's attorney, she's 35 years old. many people doubted that she could even win the race that she won. won against an incumbent who outraced her 3-4-1. so she's a strong passionate woman. this is her destiny in life. we were in church the other day and talked about the right place, the right person at the right time. i think that's my wife. >> nick, talk about the future of baltimore because there's been this baked in resentment that's happened not just overnight but for decades. >> yeah. >> about improv risched communities in sections -- impover impoverished communities in sections. that can't change overnight. how did we create the framework properly moving forward? >> see i think the lens being placed on baltimore, specifically west baltimore now, is important, right? this is an urban america thing. this is no phenomenon to the city of baltimore. you had urban enclaves of high density of poverty all over the country, right. and unfortunately many of which are dealing with the systemic issues that have been there for decades. i think that this incident is
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the culmination, and we saw the frustration and anger, not to excuse the reactions of the negative or violent protests. but we saw that. the one thing i'm seeing also is 9 % of the protesters have been peaceful. but you have young folks who have been disconnected, disenfranchised, voiceless. now they have a voice because they're coming together. i think we'll see structural changes, i think we'll over time see systemic changes. i'm concerned about the impact residual impacts associated with the riot and stuff for baltimore. >> economically talk about that. there is leverage that peaceful sproifrts as well as bad actors have in -- protests as well as bad actors have and more coming up in early may. there's an economic impact. they have leverage. >> a large economic. pact look -- large economic impact. look, the first time in sports history, a team played without fans. imagine how much that cost.
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baltimore is built around tourism, built around convention conventions and stuff. a huge economic impact to the city. >> the great thing is the orioles won yesterday. 8-2 against the white sox. >> definitely. >> councilman thank you, sir. i appreciate your time. coming up at 2:30 we'll get an update from the baltimore police. they're going to be holding a news conference, so we'll bring you that as we get it. and coming up, a former police officer about the timeline of events that happened the day that freddie gray was arrested. now the new additional stop that's been made public by this police van. and later -- ♪ >> we're going to talk about the efforts to heal this city including the bso. that's the baltimore symphony orchestra's free concert. (music)
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welcome back everybody. we are just minutes away from the baltimore police expected to hold a news conference coming up roughly in about 12 minutes, 2:30. we're also just getting this in that fedex is advising some of its customers that they may see some unavoidable service delays in baltimore as a result of what they call local restrictions. so for the baltimore metro area -- there are new questions today after police vealed a new timeline of freddie gray's transport. there was an additional stop by the van that carried gray inside. let's go over the timeline. police apprehended gray in the 1700 block of pressbury. the first stop was at mount and baker streets. police repositioned gray. then the new stop that police revealed today. it happened at fremont and
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mosher. it was discovered from a private owned camera and review of cctv video. then it stopped at druids hill and dolphin, and a fourth stop at north and pennsylvania avenues where an additional prisoner was picked up. that would mean two would be in the van. then the van arrived at the western district police station where the paramedics were called. gray was transferred to the maryland shock trauma center we weather he died a week later. i want to bring into our conversation a reporter for wbal, nbc's affiliate here in baltimore. he's also an old friend we worked at nbc, wavy-tv in virginia beach. >> right. >> first, the thing, fedex, one of our colleagues actually sent information tuesday that virginia beach was telling people then that they weren't going to be able to get packages to the maryland area because of this disruption. but the bigger reveal now today, and you know the area of western baltimore, four different stops
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with the first and last actually being additional because jane miller was reporting five altogether. >> yeah. there's like a mini stop in between. what's interesting -- >> a short area. >> very short. if you looked at it -- i was starting to show you on google maps. if you take a close look, it's maybe -- within a mile radius of these stops. the one we're finding south this phantom stop that no one knew about and that was at fremont and morbidity ur that-- morbidity euro that you-- and mosher. it's guessed that's where the incident happened. there's a turn going from that stop to the third stop at dolphin and pennsylvania that there's a sharp turn somewhere there where it's possible there's head injuries and neck injuries could have happened. >> talking about the fact that he was loose because he wasn't belted in. i've heard background from people here that work in city
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police that typically they are not belted in. >> correct. >> police officers don't want to get in that type of close proximity with people that they consider to be dangerous or volatile. but whether we think about this disclosure now coming from a private camera the western district's heavily monitored. >> it is. and they have what they call in the city blue light cameras. basically that's what they are -- they're police closed circuit cameras that have a blue light to let you know that they're there. and everyone who lives all over the city, if they live in a particular neighborhood, they know where the cameras are. that's what police were relying on for a majority of the investigation. what's interesting is they've been able to through additional investigation, they were able to get more private footage from different folks, and in this case some security footage they got some from someone that turns out to be a big turn maybe in this case to show where it's possible that this injury occurred.
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before this point, they don't even know what happened -- or at least weren't acknowledging it. >> these were small stops. and a small part -- i have to drink water. >> the pollen, i think. >> it must be. >> yeah getting into the spring here. >> i'm not used to it. but the neighborhood itself these are small, shortstops. you know generally brick row homes in baltimore. >> sure. and what you'll find is in a situation like this these guys were assigned to the western district, that's their area. and as far as making specific stops, they're assigned to that area, and that's where they would be assigned. there wouldn't be a reason that they have to leave the western district unless there was an emergency. so -- and i apologize. i -- can i apologize for you? >> no, no. just as long as we get this map up here. that way i can cough in private. my allergies are starting to kick in. >> yeah. >> thank you sir. i appreciate it. this map really gives a good description of exactly where the
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different stops had happened. reporting for wbal. thank you. neil franklin is executive director of law enforcement against prohibition, a nonprofit that seeks to end the war on drugs. what questions do you have after finding out today that there was this second stop in between when gray was arrested and taken to the hospital? >> thomas, i have a few. number one is again, the autopsy which has not been released yet. at least as far as i know. i don't think from my experience that he injured himself initially -- at least that the initial injury occurred on his own while in that van. you know, i feel like we're ignoring his condition, when he was first placed in the van. to me his legs are not properly. the condition of his neck and location of his head, i still think we need to strongly consider that, but i'm not hearing much conversation about
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it. the leaked report from the police department alleged three the "washington post," you know of what the other person in the van is reporting. i think we need to take a very good look at how that interview of conducted. were there leading questions to this individual? this person was incarcerated -- does he feel that if he said certain things that maybe his case will be easier? maybe he will not be charged. we have to look closely at that interview, as well. i find the initial stop, it's problematic that it took this long to come out. i understand that five of six officers did offer information was that not given out? did they not have the information? this investigation has a very very long way to go still.
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i have a quick comment regarding what april ryan was saying. when we look at long-term solutions for what we're dealing with, baltimore city has a big problem regarding jobs. many of the jobs available are in the drug trade. we have to look at that. the police were placed in the middle of enforcing the laws in the drug trade. >> you were a police officer in maryland. do you feel there's being an unfair ire and burden that's being placed on the baltimore city police department? do you think there's unfair observations made about how they do their work? >> i don't think they're unfair observations. observations are observations. at the end of the day -- again, the police are placed in a difficult position of enforcing unenforceable laws. causes disrespect not just for the law but for people who have
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to enforce it. it's a very tough place to be. they're giving these orders to go out and clear corners and make arrests in an effort to reduce crime. 108,000 arrests in 2005 alone, in a city of only 620,000 people. something's definitely wrong there. we've to change our policing policies, reduce these low-level drug offenses to the last priority on the list and focus on violent crime. they would be very much welcomed in the community if the focus is on violent crime and not stripsearching people in the middle of the street looking for drugs. >> neil franklin former police officer in maryland, 33-year veteran of law enforcement. sir, thank you very much for taking time out. i appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> i want to pass along to viewers, we are awaiting the news conference from the baltimore police department regarding latest in the death investigation of freddie gray, coming up at 2:30 eastern. stay with us. i love making sunday dinners. but when my back hurt, cooking all day... forget about it.
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with could back i'm thomas roberts live in baltimore. we're awaiting a 2:30 press conference that's going to take place from the baltimore police department. you see the microphone sets up on the other side of the screen. today there's been strong reaction to the "washington post" report suggesting that freddie gray may have injured himself while in the back of that transport police van. i visited the city's sandtown neighborhood freddie's neighborhood, and talked to residents out today. their reaction was pretty fierce. resident telling me this is a city that was already on edge even before freddie gray's death. take a look. he was in the car saying "freddie was banging against the walls." >> i can't see that happening. i can't see that happening. maybe turning he was rolling against the walls because they said he wasn't strapped down.
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i can't see him banging anything unless he was rolling, and his body -- you can look on the video, and you see his leg was broken. the boy wasn't even standing. he was literally limp. his entire body went limp. i appreciate the national guard trying to restore the city. what you got to understand is, say you take a bottle of pepsi, you put pop rocks in there, put the top on shake it. you keep shaking, keep shaking, what's going to happen to the bottle? it's going to explode. the city is outraged with the way things have been going. you're taking money from our schools, taking money from the communities. we have so many houses -- baltimore is a beautiful place. unfortunately, we can't live here the way we're supposed to because we're oppressed. [ inaudible ] >> no. handcuff and put him in the paddy wagon.
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if the man says -- take him to the hospital. >> there's a report out in the "washington post" today that freddie gray may have tried to injure himself in the back of that police wagon, according to another prisoner. >> i heard that. i can't believe that. i simply can't believe it. >> why not? >> why would he want to hurt himself like it? i mean do you realize it was his vertebrae that was broken you know? why would i want to harm myself? >> you don't buy it? >> i don't buy that story. >> those were people i spoke to in sandtown waiting in a food pantry line at gilmore elementary school, an elementary school based there k-5 in sandtown. it was the longest lines they say they've seen at that food pantry in a very long time.
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since almost the origin of when they began it. the experience that freddie gray allegedly had inside the van sadly isn't unique to him. more and more cases of rough rides in baltimore are being brought to light. we asked frances to investigate, and she joins me back in new york. frances, what did you find out? >> these rough ride also called screentests, cowboy or nickel ride refer to suspects being intentionally banged up in the back of a police van. police say it's not common practice, but the slang terms may suggest it happens more often than thought. as we await this press conference here, once it starts we'll go to it. we want to bring you some instances in the path. let's start with christine abbott 27-year-old assistant library at johns hopkins -- librarian at johns hopkins university. she suing for an alleged 2012 rough ride. here are image of the alleged injuries she sustained. she said she felt like a piece of cargo after an arrest there that reportedly stemmed from a noise complaint.
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in a deposition the van's driver acknowledged abbott wasn't buckled, and she accuses the officers of "man ikely driving the van." but the police deny driving recklessly. now jeffrey alston paralyzed and in need of constant nursing care after his arrest in 1997. an image of him in the hospital there. he argued city police threw him head first into a police van after being stopped for a speeding ticket. according to "the baltimore sun," officers refused to give him an jane -- an inhaler for his asthma. a surgeon testified his injury didn't jive with the claim he hit his head. you see on the side of the screen a two-minute warning. we are watching that. and donde johnson sr., he died of a fractured spine in 2005 after he was arrested for public urination. johnson was transported without a seat belt and with his hands cuffed behind his back there. his family won a $7 million case against police. and thomas, police are secured
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to secure -- are required to secure a prisoner when they're transported in a van. we see an officer walking up, not sure if he is alerting the media that this may happen soon. we'll bring you information, once it happens we'll go right to it. meantime, want to bring you the bing pulse question. keep on voting. we asked if you think freddie gray injured himself inside the van as that "washington post" article is reporting. take a look. so far the scoreboard of how we're breaking this down. overwhelmingly, 89% of you said no. 11% said yes he did. remember top of the last hour it was 50/50. compelling to see how that has changed. now back to thomas. >> all right. thank you very much. as you point out, we are awaiting that press conference with the baltimore police department. we'll take everybody to that as soon as we get them going.
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maybe people have noticed "time" magazine. it is getting attention on line for its new cover and story on baltimore. in part for the stark line it draws between today and the racial past. but also for the man who took it. devon allen is 26 years old. he is a west baltimore resident. until today, alan was someone -- only someone who aspired to be a well-known photographer. we'll speak to devon in a second. first, we want to take you straight to the press conference with the baltimore police department. >> yesterday we talked about the adsl2ministrative process catching up. we were in a heightened state of emergency, taking quick action. there were administrative processes that had to catch up. i want to give you updated numbers on injured officers. this is a sum total from when the violence first began on monday to where we are today. in total, we've had 98 officers
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report injuries during the course of events. of those 98, 43 required some sort of emergency treatment at a hospital. 13 are out on medical unable to come in to work at all, and 15 are on light duty meaning they're able to perform administrative functions but not work on the street. another 15 after being treated remain full duty. 98 officers have been injured during the course of the events. yesterday and then into the overnight hours, we released a total of 106 people as a result of the 48-hour deadline to file criminal charges. will continue to pull video footage and look for people whose identification we know that matches with video evidence that shows criminal activity. we will then file the appropriate charges to ensure that they are criminally charged. our deployment is similar
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throughout the city today as it was yesterday and the day before. we're continuing to monitor intelligence and social media to look for any event that might take place today. we have the same response that we had yesterday with resources staged throughout the city so in the event something mops up we're able to quickly shift resources to address it. again, with safety being our top priority for both our officers, citizens, and the city. we are aware that at 4:00 there's a planned march from north avenue to city hampwe're not sure how large that might be and the impact on vehicle traffic in the area. we're asking motorists to use caution in the area. the curfew is in effect tonight. it will be enforced. last night we had nine adults and ten juveniles who were arrested for curfew violations. the vast majority and i don't have a breakdown of those arrests, occurred between
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midnight and 3:00 a.m. with that i will take questions. >> it captain dropped a ballpark-- the captain dropped a bombshell saying there was a second unscheduled stop of the police van. are you telling us that the arresting officers covered up or lied about stopping that police van after freddie gray was inside the vehicle? >> so what i will tell you is that when we have information to share, we will. as the commissioner said today, it would be inappropriate to further comment on the status of the investigation. it is in the hands of the state's attorney. >> interview left us hanging. i don't know -- but you've left us hanging. i don't know if it was covered up -- >> we have released information as we're able to do so. and we have turned the case over to the state's attorney. sir, i can't answer further. i understand that there are questions that people want to -- >> but i -- >> i understand that there are questions people want to have answers to.
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but unfortunately we can't talk anymore about. it other questions? sir? >> at any mountainson monday during the unrest, was there ever a point where you had to stand down the -- reduction of response? or any order from -- >> what we've been saying consistently since monday is that we deployed officers for an event that was originally supposed to be a high school gathering. 13, 14, 15-year-olds. we worked as that event escalated, as the number of people and age escalated, we worked to deploy resources to match the event that we were seeing. the violence, the commissioner mentioned we were undermanned and overwhelmed for the violence which led us to where we are today. we had officers that were there. i talked that afternoon we had officers 20 officers injured in the initial encounter. and what you saw was us deploying resources, continuing to move forward, attempting to
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disperse the crowd. continuing to without any break in the action attempting to address the violent activity taking place. >> but you didn't receive any -- >> 106 people you said. but of the people that have been arrested how many have actually been charged in cover-up of that? have you charged anybody from the first day -- >> i have to look to get the breakdown of the arrest. at the next briefing we'll get that information. what i can tell you, of the 201 people that were initially arrested during that initial 48-hour window that we've been talking about, 106 people were released without us charging them. the others were criminally charged. >> could you give the numbers again? >> sure, i'm sorry. so during the initial encounter, we had the 201 arrest, we had the 48-hour window that we've been working with for the administrative process. 106 people have been released without criminal charges being
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filed yet. they will be filed. the remaining people have been criminally charged. >> every stop the van makes, it's supposed to look s. that correct? >> so as i've said, we put out as much information as we can -- >> but sense -- every stop a police van makes, they're supposed to log in and report that stop, right? the. >> i understand the question. look, we understand that people have a lot of questions that are out there. right now, we've turned the case over to the state attorney's office and are not going to comment further. does anyone else have further questions? >> will you comment on the "washington post" report that there is information that freddie gray injured himself? >> what we've been saying consistently since last night is that we cannot comment on the case. we cannot take the risk of compromising the case. and that's unfortunately where we stand. >> last question -- >> sure. >> sorry to go back at it again, but you didn't answer my question. did you guys receive an order at any point monday or direct information that said temper the respond, hold back anything to
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that? >> you know, i think the best answer i can give you is the answer that i gave you. if you look at what our officers did, they stood in the face of violent -- the commissioner showed last night what the rock looked like. these aren't pebbles being thrown. these were chunks of cement that have serrated edges and glass embedded in them. that's what was being thrown at our officers. and there were cameras from across the city showing officers doing what they could to end the violence, making sure people in the community were safe. they did not stop. they never yielded. that's what we expected of our officers. we'll brief again in another hour and a half. i continue to urge people to follow us, baltimore police on twitter, we'll be putting out information especially as the day continues. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> again, this is captain eric, k-o-w-a-l-c -- >> so the captain giving us an update on the baltimore city
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police department. right now talking about the police officers that have been injured since monday. there were 98 injured officers. 43 got e.r. treatment. 13 on medical leave because of injuries received in the field. 15 on light duty and 15 were treated and returned to full duty. 98 officers injured. there were 106 people released. the captain brought up. those 106 were originally part of the 200-plus people that were taken into custody on monday. they had a 48-hour deadline to process or charge, and these people were ultimately ended up being released. 106. the deployment remains the same. he says they'll monitor social media and make adjustments when necessary now that they've activated the national guard as well as local and regional offices helping the baltimore police department. he was bringing up the fact that at 4:00 p.m. there's going to be a group marching from east
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north avenue to st. paul. if you're familiar with baltimore, you'll kboi know that st. paul is a main artery that will take you into the city. one of the more famous roads here in baltimore city. it will take you directly downtown. they expect this peaceful march to began at 4:00 p.m. and he talked about last night's curfew and what they had come out of that. there were nine adult and two juveniles arrested mainly between 12:00 p.m. and 3:00 a.m. the third mandatory curfew begins tonight at 10:00. i want to go back now to show you the cover of "time" magazine. it's an amazing new cover and story that goes along with it. and it really has an interesting back story of how it all came together. devon alone is an amateur photographer who took the picture, and we are joined by "time" magazine's nation editor ben goldberger. guys, great to have you with me. i want to start with you. tell us about the cover photo where it was snapped, and how you got the attention of "time"
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magazine. >> well, it happened on april 25th this past saturday. basically it was a peaceful process, a little bit sour. basically when i snapped the picture, it was on pratt street. you know, it was like -- the younger guys got agitated and basically, you know got a little out of hand so the police, whether they went to move in, the guy asked me -- turned around and broke up the street. when he ran up the street i snapped a picture and used the camera to send to my foechbltphone. as printed this, the police were running past me. it was crazy. >> you have aspirations to be a photographer? >> yes. i've been doing if for three years now. >> three years. and now you can say you have a cover of "time" magazine. i want to go ahead and talk to ben. ben, this is an amazing piece that you put together for "time" magazine. you're also drawing parallels using this imagery to the 1960s,
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issues here in baltimore. the fact that we have not made much progress in 50 years. >> very much so. we've all been covering the eruptions, ferguson, staten island, north chillier and now baltimore. none of them really exist in a vacuum. these are result not causes. the causes that are incredible inequity of opportunity are similar to the causes that people were fighting for 50 years ago. >> talk about how you were able to find devon. >> our photo editors do an incredible job scouting for talent all over the world. they were really close watching on social media what picture were blowing up. and devon was right in the middle of it. it was clear that he was from the neighborhood he had a visceral eye. and he understood what this story ran from a ground level view. that was one we wanted to communicate to the world. >> talk about what this means to you, what this means to your career.
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how well did "time" pay you? did they pay well. >> okay -- >> okay? they paid you okay? but so what does this mean and how does this inspire you to keep up with your art, to keep up with your photograph? >> well my goal was never to be on "time" or anything. this is my city, a beautiful city. i wanted to show a side that many might not show. i wanted to show that. everybody -- we get a lot of -- they need cut some slack. both sides of the story people ain't doing nice things. i wanted to capture the good and bad. i wasn't cutting no cards. and i just used social media to show that. >> let's make sure you stay in touch with "time." this is quite a resume builder for a person that wants to be a photographer. congratulations to you. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> and thank you, sir. appreciate it. ahead here from the streets of baltimore, changing the tune literally, the baltimore symphony orchestra combating violence with music. i'll speak to the bso conductor coming up next.
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♪ music, there it is. the response from the bso. the baltimore symphony orchestra. it motivated them the entire orchestra, to put on a free show. to step outside and give this beautiful concert in the sun yesterday. they played just a few miles from where the protesters have been demanding answers? -- demanding answers in the death of freddie gray. the bso quoting leonard bernstein on its facebook page who said after the assassination of president john f. kennedy, "this will be our reply to violence, to make music more intensely, more beautifully, more devotedly than ever before." they certainly did yesterday. i'm joined by the baltimore symphony orchestra's music
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director and conductor. it'sgate great to have you here. >> thanks for having me. >> i grew up here, i know what it mean to be in the bso, baltimore symphony orchestra. why did you want to do it for the community? >> it emanated from the musicians themselves. they said we have to do something. we said we can make music and give it back. music is such an incredible universal language. it doesn't have politics, no opinions, be part of the joy, share, community. >> you guys are giving back because you have a program devoted to helping kids in the city get access to musical instruments. >> we have a program called orchids, an after school program. we started with 30 kids seven years ago and now have 850 orchids. they're incredible. they're so talented and so wonderful. i think it's a transformative process for them and us. >> talk about the transformation and access that this outlook of music and the capability of art to have this access to some --
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something so sophisticated. >> you know, it's -- it's about music and it's been music. you know they're gaining skills that they can use throughout life. they're learning how to self-motivate. learning self-esteem, learning how to work as teams, training their ears everything. and you see these kids working together in a big orchestra, and it is inspireingspiring. >> people some people say it's a city divided. i'm familiar with the bso and know it's patronized a lot by those living in the county. how do we get the baltimore county residents it care about what's happening in the city? >> i think they do care. i think it's a matter of opening up -- there seems to be a divide, that we need to blur that line. i think the events of the last week have brought to the fore the fact that we all need to be engaged and all need to care about every aspect of our community. every aspect affects the next one.
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especially access and inclusion for young people. >> i love the idea for the orchids. the most popular instrument they want access to? >> definitely percussion. no doubt about it. the vile since a close second -- violin is a close second. >> really? >> maybe. >> clarinet? >> trumpet is a good one. >> the woodwinds and trumpet -- the noisiest. >> they love it. making a statement. >> music director for the bso, conductor conductor. thank you very much. >> thank you for being here. >> appreciate it. that will wrap it up for msnbc live for me in baltimore. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. eastern and throughout the day here on msnbc as we continue to cover the unfolding event in baltimore. the death investigation of freddie gray. until then keep the conversation going on social media@roberts@msnbc. "the cycle" is next.
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>> we are asking and hoping for peace in the city of baltimore. as we saw yesterday and the day before, that is the norm in the city, and that is what we hope to see. outside city hall is where we are and where officials are hoping to prevent a repeat of the violence and anger and frustration we saw on monday night. so far, they've been largely successful. let's get to the freddie gray investigation. today the police department turned over its findings to the state's attorney's office. but not to the public. state attorney marilyn mosby has been running an independent investigation and will now determine if charges should be brought against any of the six officers involved in gray's arrest. all six officers are currently suspended with pay. there's no deadline for when she will make a decision. that lack of a timelane is


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