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tv   Locked Up Abroad  MSNBC  May 3, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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we talked earlier about a vehicle perhaps having some type of incendiary or explosive device. either they're comfortable that's no longer the case or they have been able to get the vehicle out of the area. again, there's a lot of investigation to understand who these two individuals are and what level of any support they might have had before law enforcement puts the cap on this information. >> we do have some video and i believe there's also some audio related to this, clint. and you and i can watch and listen as we play it. the event organizers, the american freedom defense initiative, they were live streaming this and then this is what happens. watch and listen carefully. we'll play that right now. >> police officer has been shot. two suspects have been shot. possibly have explosives on them. okay? that's what we're worried about right now. we are going to move y'all into
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the auditorium in a minute. be calm and orderly and take you into the auditorium fourther from the front of this building. sflrt. >> were the suspects muslim? >> i have no idea right now. >> that is the video we just got i believe off of youtube and streaming it. i want to hear the top when that warning was made that something was happening. so, clint, you were probably able to hear some of that there. what do you make of it? >> well, you know, i caught the latter part of that. of course, somebody inside suggested who the individuals might be as far as their religious or political affiliation. you know, that could be the case. you know, we have to be quick not to point the finger at anyone. that may or may not be logical that it was someone, you know,
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from a particular religious persuasion or background but it just as easily can be someone trying to 0 provoke a situation, too. i think that's why law enforcement has to be very quick in their investigation but they're also going to have to be very thorough to identify not only shooters but the motivation. and i think that's what's going to be key in this now is there's no doubt they'll be able to identify the two shooters, obviously they're on the scene. they have been shot and dead. but the question is, can you show that they had presented any type of threat to this organization, this cultural fair in the past? and were they functioning on their own accord or there on the direction of someone else? that investigation to me would still be wide open. >> i want to play that sound again. that we just got in. again, being live streamed by the organizing group.
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let's play that. >> police officer is shot. two suspects have been shot. possibly have explosives of then 'em. okay? that's what we're worried about right now. we are going to move you all into the auditorium in a minute. i need everybody to be calm, remain orderly and take you into the auditorium further away from the front of the building, all right? >> were the suspects muslim? >> we have no idea right now. >> and again, as clint was mentioning, assumptions, we need to be careful with that at this moment. live pictures from the chopper cam outside the culwell center. this is an event of the muhammad art event and contest. organized by a group called the american freedom defense initiative according to our affiliate kxas. the group claiming that the event an effort to stand up against violent intimidation. at the event within the last several hours, two armed men opening fire on a security guard
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there on location and then fire returned by garland police officers. the two suspects then killed. now, more background if you're just joining us on this muhammad art exist and contest organized by this group, they were also -- the organizing group also decided to invest up to $10,000 in increased security according to what the police were telling our affiliate. this follows another event that was happening in january that was as described by our affiliate pro-islamic and appears potentially the two groups at adds with each other. and, you know, as i'm looking here, clint, at the way that the affiliate describing what happened there, they make some allusion to what had happened in the charlie hebdo attacks and in that situation, there were 12
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people that were killed by gunmen in that attack. early on, but do you draw anything from that benchmark of tragedy? >> well, i think law enforcement is going to have to make up their minds as part of this investigation, was the charlie hebdo, did this provide the impetus, somewhat of a model for this type of attack to take place? you know, they may find out that, you know, of course, we know that charlie hebdo attack took place because there were some individuals perhaps that may have felt that that newspaper had -- was not as respectful as they wanted them to be concerning the prophet and other issues such as that. that could be a similar situation. again, but law enforcement has to be so careful not to jump to any type of conclusion.
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we have had enough challenges in this country and around the world where we found out that the first information isn't necessarily correct or identification of the shooters may or may not be correct and something like this, even though they may have the names of these two shooters right now as i've said time and again, the motivation is going to be the challenge. and can they make a connection between groups that are supportive of, you know, the prophet in this particular case and any art exhibit related to the prophet and those that consider anything like that blasphemy and perhaps reason to attempt it appears at least some type of incident of, you know, murder or mass murder. shootings. as, again, as we saw in france that took place. so let me circle back around again to charlie hebdo shooting could perhaps have provided some
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type of a model of behavior for these individuals to act out. that's something law enforcement's going to have to consider in their investigation. >> back to the live pictures at the moment. appears to be in front of a gas center there in garland, texas. local time about 9:06 p.m. i'm looking at a fire department vehicle it looks like on the right-hand part of your screen. we did not -- several earlier and then as the chopper cam scanning and panning the area, we did not see any. doesn't mean they weren't there. the number of police vehicles seems to be steady or decreasing. based on the pictures that our affiliate and their chopper cam is giving us. the center where this art exhibit was happening, very close to several large stores. we were talking about sams and walmart being closed down as a
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precautionary measure and the police vehicles we have seen over the last 45 minutes seem to be key checkpoints, if you will, to make sure that they have a command and control structure there. the flares laid out on that intersection along with an ambulance close by. we understand the individuals at the cultural center during this exhibit of depictions and illustrations of the prophet muhammad, that they also had police all throughout this afternoon at the event was happening and the group that put on this event is called the american freedom defense initiative according to our affiliate. the president of that group pamela geller saying that she planned this sunday event to make a stand for free speech. and she was saying that she was doing this in response to the outcries of violence over drawings of the prophet muhammad. her group known for mounting a
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campaign against the building of an islamic center just blocks away from here in new york at the world trade center. her group also buying advertising space in cities across the united states criticizing the religion of islam. and so, her group, that's the information we have. if you do look at their website, clint, and you can see some of the depictions of the prophet muhammad and to many muslims they would find that offensive and on the website it does advertise that they are going to have -- that they were going to have today the muhammad art exhibit and cartoon contest. and that it was to begin and according to what it's saying starting at 5:00 p.m. local time there. looks like it started at 5:00, ended at 7:00.
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going for about two hours and the plan was to stream it for those two hours and we did get some video from that live stream right after, again, those two suspects did shoot at a security officer and then they were shot at by police officers and killed and i guess let's show that one more time. that video if we can of when that warning was made. >> two suspects have been shot. possibly have explosives s os them. that's what we're worried about. we are going to move you all here into the auditorium in a minute. i need you all to be calm, orderly and take you into the auditorium further away from the front of this building. all right? >> were the suspects muslim? >> i have no idea. >> all right, clint. i just wanted to play that one more time because we don't have much video of the scene or what had happened.
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from the description i gave you of the organizing group, the pieces of information, give me a reaction. we're going to go to break very quickly. give me 30 seconds if you can. >> well, i think, number one, law enforcement is going to have to see if this group is identified in the past with some perhaps suggestion they are -- they were anti-islamic. one of the things law enforcement is going to be looking at in the investigation is any type of surveillance cameras. you talked about the large box stores that are in this area, as well as gas stations, everything else. they will be looking trying to identify these two shooters as they came in their vehicles along this route to see if they stopped, talked to anybody. if they drove straight in. as far as the group itself that put on this -- >> right. okay. >> cultural event tonight -- >> clint? >> the decision will be made. some people will say they're speaking for freedom and others say they're provocative.
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breaking news out of garland, texas, now. 9:14 local time. two suspects killed at a fair where illustrations and cartoons and art of the prophet muhammad were being displayed. one of the security officers was injured. we are understanding according to kxas that one injured security officer who was shot has now been released from the hospital according to kxas. with us at this hour, we have clint van zandt, former fbi profiler and msnbc profiler and jay gray, nbc news and jim cavanau cavanaugh, who also worked out of that office of garland. we'll start with jay gray first. what do you know about what's happening there? >> richard, on the ground here at the location right now. they have us all pulled significantly back as you would imagine at this point.
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everything is locked down. police, state police as well as garland police, on the scene right now. many of them intact call gear. some with weapons drawn and tense situation. there's concern about the vehicle of those two suspects and the possibility there's explosives inside so they're working to try to determine if that is the case. there are also a lot of people that gathered in the area as you would might imagine with this situation here. a lot of people nervous and want the find out what's going on. i would have to say they probably have a mile cordoned off here around the event center, an event center used for graduations, special events. this was a cartoon drawing contest and had been advertised for sometime and was going on when all of this occurred. they've shut down the major highways in this area as well as the major thoroughfares. all of the big box department stores have been closed down and everybody's been evacuated from
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those. so it's just a situation where they're continuing to comb the area and find out as much as they can right now. >> jay, do you see nimbuses? we were told those at the center for the event were being evacuated by bus. i saw two buses about 30 minutes ago leaving that center. do you see any school buses or large buses in the area? >> in fact, right as we're talking about it, there are two garland independent school district buses pulling in right now. there are officers inside or at least an officer and it looks like they're -- yeah. they're emptied because they're just pulling right by me. perhaps going to make another load, another run here headed in the direction of the event center right now. >> seems like a very -- >> both have officers on board but not a contingent. >> right, right. and the other question, and that is, the vehicle that they believe the suspects used that
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they were searching that vehicle for an explosive device. do you see any activity around any vehicles in the area, in the parking lots around that center? >> unfortunately, they've pushed us back to a point where we cannot see that area. we cannot see the center anymore. >> right. >> you know, initial i we were in there and such a rush to get out there and people moving out at that time so i wish i could tell you more on that. >> no problem. >> richard, i can't. >> we understand those kor don'ts. as you're arriving, tell me how difficult it was to arrive to that location. tell me what you heard, were there a lot of sirens, quiet? did you see a lot of government vehicles or medical vehicles moving by quickly or does it seem fairly -- give me a sense of the energy there. >> yeah. there were still people rushing in when i first got here. there are officers on every corner now and like i said i
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would imagine and obviously can't circle the whole thing and appears they have this thing locked down for a mile in each direction. they really have secured everything here. >> okay. >> they've shut down the tollway that runs right past this area. there's several major thoroughfares in the area completely locked down. >> right. >> there are ambulances here. there's fire trucks here. and again, state and local police. and many of them still on high alert. >> it seems to be that when i see on the left-hand side of the screen, more activity than we saw from the pictures coming in to us from the chopper cam from our affiliate, more activity of vehicles arriving into the parking lot in some center area. do not know if that's the vehicle that the suspects used or not but that seems to be the most activity we have seen in the live video coming into us from the chopper cam. jay, stand by just for a second here. i want to bring in jim cavanaugh.
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former atf officer in charge. what do you know about the garland police force and how they may or may not be prepared for what we are talking about today, jim? >> garland is a top pd. i was the assistant special agent in charge of the dallas division, garland is right immediately next to dallas. and they have a very first class pd and bomb unit. they're more than capable of handling this event. and apparently made a response to maybe take down the two shooters like you and clint were talking earlier, richard. efficient, well trained. certainly on top of this. and but they're going to get a lot of help from fbi and atf and surrounding pds, dallas, plano. richardson. whatever they need. there's top law enforcement in the area. it is good news to hear that the security guard may be is going
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to make it and seems like from your reporting, richard, there, that the only fatalities are the two asill lants assailants rig >> yeah. they're telling us, jim, that the one security officer that was injured has now been released and apparently they were non-life threatening injuries or injury to that security officer so that's good news. not good news, of course, two suspects were killed in this incident but, of course, we don't know the details specifically as to how that led up to the situation. you know, another part of this that clint and i were talking about was that they felt they needed to increase the amount of security by paying about $10,000 and help us understand with that. does that involve only private security or is that also perhaps
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some cost that is are passed down to the event if they're asking for more garland police department assistance? what do you know about that? >> well, of course, i don't know in this specific instance if they hired off duty garland police officers but many cities allow the official police officers to work off duty jobs and often the police departments coordinate that so they insure that there's no conflicts of interest with their officers. you know, they have some cities have a basically an off duty work unit. so if they -- event center wants to contract off duty police, they go through the department. handed formally through an office and handle so many officers and the event pays the officers for the off duty job and might have to block the street or protect an area that the public comes to. but it's not a scene that the city police would normally
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charge the taxpayer to protect so that's why it's done that way. i don't know if it was done that way here but you had a very quick response from gr land pd, apparently, because they stopped the two shooters. like clint talked earlier, once we see around the world so much now, is just these rifle attacks. charlie hebdo, you know, other ones in europe. we saw them years ago in attacks like at the airport in israel. so people always think, you know, has to be some sophisticated bomb. two guys with kalashnikovs can wreck havoc on a crowd and you might have had the asill lants trying to do that. >> right. >> get in there and wreak havoc with the rifles and what they're doing now, of course, the bomb units sweep the cars, backpacks, anything they carried to make sure there's no, you know, homemade bombs or, of course, we all know the term now that was
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our inside baseball talk for years which was an ied which means improvised explosive device and kind of an inside baseball talk for a homemade bomb and looking for that to make sure the car is not rigged up or something or carried some other devices they wanted to throw or other firearms. and of course, what's often going to happen is a very hard sweep of any cell phones they have or laptops or, you know, ipads or anything and the fbi wants to get in there and lock stuff. confederates, conspirators anywhere in the dallas metropolitan area, anywhere in the world? they'll be very quickly on top of this and the joint terrorism task force which is made up of all the agencies we have discussed and the local police and the state police and, you know, everybody's going to be trying to go behind the guys and what's happening now, i mean, that's already in the works.
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and they're going to try to ramp it further back to eliminate these two actors that acted alone or more behind it and more conspirators, more people out there. >> jim, as you probably heard, when clint and i were talking, going to clint in a second here, the sponsoring group of this art exhibit and cartoon contest was the american freedom defense initiative. pamela geller might be known by some. others not. her group was against opening any sort of center close to the world trade center post- 9/11, any islamic center that would be close and they posted several ads across the country based on that. now, we're also watching this robot here, two robots it looks like on our screen that could be moving towards that vehicle we
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have been talking about for the last 45 to 60 minutes, has a small light it appears and as the bomb unit you were describing here, jim, they're very well equipped and very trained and see where it goes. and how it works. what do you know about the actual implements that these bomb units have and use? jim, first to you and then clint after that. >> right. well, what they do, this is pretty normal bomb squad procedure. send the robot out. an item on the ground or something behind the bush. i can't see. they examine it closely and the technicians stand back and see it on their video screen, on the laptop. the camera goes up, looks at it and they can use various tools on that to open it up, disrupt it, explode it and they can do this remotely. what they want to do is try to keep just the robot over the device and see if they can
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render it safe that way. sometimes an officer goes down range and full gear sometimes but if they can do it without that, they'll try to do it with the robot. these guys are top shelf. they're very well trained. they go to the fbi hazardous devices school at red stone arsenal. they're very close colleagues with fbi and atf agents and bomb squads across the country and they can handle this and doing it from what we can see in the most professional way. >> clint, there are it appears to be two robots based on the pictures we can see. there could be more. what are the size of these and what sort of capabilities do they have? you know, jim was telling us they can actually engage with the suspect vehicle and perhaps the suspect device. what do you know about these devices? >> well, you know, i've seen them, like, jim has been around
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and handled them and i've seen them used before by fbi bomb techs, et cetera. you know, you're in a major metropolitan area. you've got the dallas pd, major atf and fbi as well as other local pd so they have a lot of resources they can bring on scene. you mentioned pamela geller who's the head or spokesperson for the american freedom defense initiative. from what i've been able to determine that, you know, law enforcement when this first happened, they very quickly moved to get her out of the area, probably considering she could be a likely target. i mean, anyone who was the spokesperson for an organization, you know, she would become the face, the voice. so she would be an obvious target if someone was going at this facility and at this particular meeting. we know that the meeting, the
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initiative was supposed to be over at 7:00 p.m. and it appears to have run ate ll bit later. these individuals may well have timed themselves to be there right at the time that everyone -- at the time they thought everyone would be walking out. inl stead, what they encountered was a security officer. it appears they shot him in the leg when they first encountered him. fortunately he's we're told already out of the hospital. but the local police were very quick to engage these two other individuals. and put them down as fast as they could. and again, had it just been a few more minutes they would have had dozens of people flowing out the front door and could have seen a catastrophic event take place. >> stand by. we're going to go for a short break and watching the breaking news where two alleged suspects were killed. we'll be right back. some weed killers are overzealous.
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breaking news here on msnbc. we continue to watch when's happening in garland, texas. this incident we believe to now be -- 9:32 local time. to be about two or three hours old in that range. again, two suspects approaching an art exhibit and cartoon contest. the topic, the prophet muhammad. they approached this location, then were shot. after they shot one of the security officers these two suspects dying after the police did shoot them. and now we are watching some live pictures as the suspects' vehicle, the vehicle they believe the suspects had driven inspected. we saw two robots before we went to break. i believe these are some of the pictures that might be of that vehicle or close by. and it looks like we do have
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what appears to be one or two robots around and the pictures in the video at the moment a little bit zoomed out. let's go -- now we have clint van zandt, jim cavanaugh and jay gray. jay is on the scene there. jay, you and i spoke about 15 minutes ago. anything change? and do you see or do you hear any of the activity we have been talking about with the two robots that may have been brought in by the bomb unit there? >> yeah, richard, unfortunately, we're a little -- we've been removed from the scene as you would expect and so we can't see the actual robot that is are interacting with the suspect vehicle right now and i can tell you we have seen other agencies moving in, other police agencies, some federal agencies. a lot of help pouring into the area right now. a lot of activity as far as law enforcement is concerned. we've just seen a group of officers come in and i'm trying
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to get a better read on it. we may also have some -- no. that's state police. we have more state police coming in, as well. and so this is still a very active scene and it's one that, again, really locked down at this point. this entire area, which is usually a bustling area. restaurants here, stores. a lot of hotels and the like in this area. it is completely shut down at this point. they have closed down the george bush tollway in one direction nearest to this community center. closed major roadways in the area. >> if you were just to turn around and look around you here, jay, what do you see? what kind of businesses? we saw some pictures of gas stations. what's in that area? >> well, we have gas stations, like i said, we have several restaurants, all the chain restaurants that line the area. the convention center does a lot of business, not only graduations that you expect.
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all the schools in the area but it is something that's filled quite often here in a very diverse clientele as you can tell from this weekend. we have walmart, target, petsmarts. just all of the big box retailers that you expect in a type of strip mall area are here. and they are all locked down. the parking lots have been evacuated and emptied. and these officers continue. i'm just looking now. we have more officers coming in as i speak. it continues to be a very active situation here. >> so they were telling us earlier, the police department, they closed down the walmart, sams as well as another large box store there. the community as you were describing and, you know, when i look at -- around 230,000 people in garland, texas. it is about, oh, what, 20, 30
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minutes northeast of dallas, texas. >> right. >> fairly diverse community. about 40%, 43% minority. how would you describe this area as a community? >> well, this is really on the very northern end of garland. it's -- it's really where garland and richardson come together. not far from plano, as well. all communities just on the north end of the dallas suburbs. you know, i think it's a typical working class community. there are pockets of this area that are certainly upper middle class. and just a bustling area. a lot of activity. still a lot of construction here. not far from where we are, maybe three, four miles state farm has just moved its corporate headquarters into the area.
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toyota has a major part of its operations in the area so it's an area that's bust too long say the least, richard. >> jay, one last question before i move over to jim quickly here. did you see -- you were saying some federal, potentially, some federal government presence arriving, fbi, did you see any -- did you see that logo around at all? >> i haven't to this point but i'm pushed back from where we were initially. >> sure. >> i couldn't tell you definitely. it has the appearance. >> totally understanding. this is a developing news story. jim, as we watch this, they're moving the corridkocordon furth. there's that which is happening. there's a question of the fbi, will they be arriving? when will they be arriving?
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there's the question, also, of this community and what it is. you are based out of the dallas office for the atf. let me start with you on that first. what is this community like of garland, texas? >> well, it's a -- i lived in plano, texas, when i was the assistant special agent in charge of the dallas division. it's a great community. middle class community. hard working community. you can see the streets. tree lined streets, event center. it's a very normal american city. it's a suburban city of dallas. which is, of course, the big city, downtown area. very nice place to live, really. i mean, good people, good working class people and middle class and just a great place. you can look at your shot there, richard, i just want to tell you with the back-off shot of major police vehicles there, those two big white vehicles, those are the bomb squad trucks. you can see the ramps that come
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out of each side of those trucks and that's where the robots come down the ramps of the trucks. each one has a robot. you've got a bear cat. looks like a bear cat vehicle which is an armored s.w.a.t. vehicle just beyond that and two robots are together, you know, working the area. looking for the device, trying to clear it, whatever they might have dropped or thrown and then maybe the suspect's vehicle. they'll look in it. they have a camera with a telescope and can go up and look down inside the car. they can look around. and they can do all this from the safe distance. it has a claw on it. it has a number of tools that can help them manipulate and open things. and, you know, they can use it to we call, you know, render safe is the terminology and the
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bomb community to render safe the bomb. so, that's -- this is exactly what you want a professional bomb squad to do. and this is what garland's doing right here. so but the second part of the equation on the case like this is really the driving intelligence, driving the intelligence on these two guys, you know, who are they? why are they there? who have they told they were going to do connected to? >> right. >> are they commune katding with others? because the bomb squard is going to be able to handle this pretty quickly and make it safe even if there's something there or determined it's not and when's really going on is what we call as clint knows, white collar investigation. harder to see on the video screen but going on right now. the joint terrorist task force in dallas is fired up and guarantee there's fbi and atf
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and the state troopers all there and converging there to help garland pd and detectives suit this out and get to the bottom of the it. there's a lot going on there. >> clint van zandt, former fbi profiler, that who question. when does the fbi arrive? when they do start coordinating? jim bets they're there right now, if not engaging with the coalition there on the ground to solve what's happening there. talk if you can there, clint, the perspective of a former fbi profiler and how and when do they engage at this moment? clint, are you there? sounds like clint van zandt at the moment having trouble reaching him. jim, you are still with us here. and i want to ask you about the american freedom defense
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initiative. they held this event in as you were describing it, an average, every day american city. very diverse city. and they're holding an event it appears at this moment to be an event that would not necessarily be accepted by everybody and maybe perceived by some as disrespectful. for muslims and the depictions that they may have had there, cartoons and illustrations and art work of the prophet muhammad. had they put on events before in that area and had it caused any issue in the past that you're aware of? >> well, you know, that group has been listed by the southern poverty law center as an anti-islam hate group. so they're pretty well-known. the members are pretty well-known, you know, to people who watch those kind of things and intelligence type people.
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so they're pretty famous in they own right to get out and hold public events. and condemning sharia law and all types of things they see as, you know, anti -- kind of an anti-islamic overall. doesn't seem they hate -- seem to talk about all the muslims as one. combining them with the terrorists and that's why the southern poverty law center has listed them as a hate group. so they are famous for ads on buses -- >> and advertisements and advertising across the country. >> exactly. >> yeah, right. talking about the world trade center area and how the group led by pamela geller, very outspoken leader of that group mounted that campaign against any building of an islamic center close to the world trade center and they very well-known
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in cosome groups and from what u know, jim, in that area, whether they had -- whether they chose or have chosen garland, texas, or the dallas metropolitan area as a location to hold such events you were unaware when you were living there and based there for the atf as being one of the centers across the country for this group. >> right. i don't recall it was one of the special centers or anything. i think that the groups just want to get the word out from their agenda so they advertise and then hold events at various rallies. >> we have clint back here, jim. jim was talking earlier about the big question, right, the big question that you got all the time as a former fbi profiler. all right, clint, help us. who are the people? what drove them? what was their motive? talk about that part of it and
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how the fbi may or may not be integrating with the efforts as we see the two white truck which is are the control centers for the two robot that is are now what we believe to be doing is approaching the suspects' vehicle. how are the fbi profilers working with all this? >> of course, they're looking at the two individuals that have been identified at the shooters, deveesed. but they're also looking at who might the shooters have been after? we know of course the woman who's the head of the organization sponsoring this for lack of a better term cartoon drawing contest for which they were offering up to $10,000 for people to draw a cartoons of the prophet muhammad. i mean, you know, there's a fine balance i guess always between standing up for freedom and standing up and being provocative and painting a par get on yourself. and i think, you know, we have
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to consider that all the time. knowing that one of the speakers, one of the advertised speakers, at this organization was a member of the dutch parliament who is on record for add voluntary katding that the koran be banned. so if you take, you know, yvonne who does that and some of the anti-islamic rhetoric of the organization there, i think what the fbi has to figure out along with atf and other organizations is was it just a theme of this cartoons, drawing cartoons of the prophet muhammad? was it the dutch member of parliament? was it the organization? was it the entire theme that may have been a target for these two individuals? as you and i discussed earlier, is this something that they simply acted out of their own accord or something that they were financed, directed,
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inspired by someone else other than just two individuals putting their heads together and say, let's go shoot up the town tonight. so there's a lot to be learned about this incident before we simply write it off as two angry radical individuals. >> although they are saying the police department, according to the spokesperson here, clint, they believe that they're operating alone, who knows whether they are, indeed, w working alone or not? putting on your fbi profiler hat, you do understand some of the context. but you do understand some of the action. we certainly do understand the results at the moment. but what we don't know is why they did this. any sense, you know, putting on a fbi profiler hat what you would be looking senate probably drawing hypotheses i imagine and what might those be?
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>> because we talked earlier, there was such a strong law enforcement presence, notwithstanding the topic of the event tonight, the cartoon drawing contest, the possible affront to anyone who was muslim, those were all there. so i think law enforcement rightly concluded that could have been a target event tonight. obviously, they were right. the question is, who targeted them, other than these two individuals? as a profiler and a good friend jim with atf does the same thing. you have to look past these two individuals. were they simply radicalized and they inspired themselves? were they striking out because they thought that their religion was being insulted? were they under the pay or direction of somebody else? i can understand law enforcement saying, we think we don't have enough shooter on the street at this time.
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but as far as who else may have been involved, i mean, we can go back to the ft. hood shootings and look at major hassan and we know he was the only shooter there but the inspiration he received to commit these acts went far beyond him and i think that's what investigators have to look for is where did the direction, inspiration, financial support come for the two individuals that have been killed tonight. >> of course, you were discussing earlier there, clint, one of the potential examples to draw some guiding principles is the charlie hebdo drawings and 12 individuals killed in that incident. we're going to come right on back. jay gray is getting some more information for us. jim cavanaugh will join us. clint van zandt will be back and return to garland, texas, as those bomb unit robots are now working and get more information on what they are doing right
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out of garland, texas. area, city of about 230,000. two suspects killed after they shot at a security officer at a contest. art exhibit as well of depictions of the prophet muhammad. they were then shot and killed by police officers. there in garland, texas. we are now watching live pictures from kxas. chopper cam. two robots from the bomb units there approaching the suspects' alleged vehicle. and as we look at these two robots, jim cavanaugh who's with us and clint van zandt, jim, you were based at that area with the atf for some time. two robots.
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why do they need two? appear to be two. we see the two control vans as you were describing earlier and the robots they kocame down fro and why two and two different sizes and shapes. >> right. well, you know, there's various manufacturers of the robots and some are bigger than others and some because it can do more or what the department purchased at the time or the budget aloe case. they're all pretty sophisticated robots and the reason of two is we can see more area with the cameras. you can, you know, use two to manipulate something better, more eyes, more capabilities. whenever you're doing something remotely it always helps you to have more of them. so it's a great cool. we've used them a lot, atf, fbi uses them. the police bomb squads. and tactical teams. we have used them on barricaded
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suspects. talk to them through a microphone or deliver something and extremely useful tools and they take their time. there's no hurry. the on-scene commanders now, they don't have to rush. they've got -- the speed is in the part of the investigation that clint and you were talking about, the speed is the white collar side. that is where all the speed is in this case and that's going on in the joint terrorism task force with the agents, checking their intelligence sources. they're working the stuff heavy we don't see on the camera. this is a slow, methodical work, you know, toward rendering any device that might be there safe. seeing if there's any other ammo, bombs, pipe bombs inside the vehicles or so forth. >> clint, talk about that speed. when's happening not right on the camera right now. seems to be deliberate.
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we see the control vans there. when's happening behind the scenes not on these pictures, not on the video we have got right now? clint van zandt, are you with us? >> yes. >> clint, what are we seeing that is -- what is happening that we are not seeing in this video right now? jim was just talking about speed of those behind the scenes now working. >> sure. >> to figure out what's happening. give us a sense of what that is. >> well, the fbi, atf as jim suggest, the members of the joint terrorism task force, they're going to be not only confirming the identities of the two shooter that is are dead but a wiring diagram, they're going to start taking -- they'll first link the two individuals together and then they'll do a linkage analysis to try to identify who else they were in contact with.
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either by their cell foenlphone internet connections, neighbors, expand that wiring diagram more and more and i tell you. there are a lot of people working sunday night right now because they're moving very quickly to find people, interview them before perhaps if there's anyone else involved before they could leave the area, make a run for it. we want to find out who's involved, who contributed to this and is there any other second shoe to drop? is there a second activity that could be planned? you don't want to be caught waiting for that to happen. you want to be very proactive. >> that's interesting there, clint. you are talking about that wiring. are they all in a room potentially on a white board drawing those lines out, where they might connect and what is the yay and nay? is that the process potentially?
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>> that's one of the things that years ago when federal agencies created the joint terrorism task force and able to tap into not only all the federal agencies to include the nsa and agencies like that but local police and authorities. so they can pull all of this together so the joint terrorism task force many times they do meet within fbi facilities but they can meet and start to pull all this and the garland police department and a number of agencies will be conducting their own investigations based upon the information they have and then they'll be pulling this. there's going to be kind of a sinner ynergy center where the generated out of. there were the old days where everybody had to come in and talk and write things out on by 3 x 5 cards and where you were going next. now everything is connected together. this is one major investigation
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under a code name perhaps but every investigative agent or officer will have access to this information and kept in a large database and then facilitate much faster. in essence, if i come up with a name and jim, there's no need for us both independently to find this person and talk to. once that information is pulled, okay, let's move on again. you have a lot of people right now available for an investigation like this. you want to make sure you use -- you make the very best use of them possible and it's going to be daylight soon and law enforcement wants to make sure this investigation is movinging on before the first light of day. >> as the cliche goes, just like in the movies or just like on tv, what they're doing. they have the power of technology as they're trying to coordinate the pieces of information from various sources and then, of course, you have various


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