tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC May 8, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
got there without her. the low prices i try to escape because i always want to make her proud. happy mother's day, mom. make sure you do the same for yours. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. have a great weekend. "hardball" starts right now. "w" to call the shots for jeb. the decider is back. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. ghastly news tonight. if you held hope that jeb bush was not like his brother, that he was not a leader who was take us down another rabbit hole like iraq, give it up. i mean really give it up. jeb just told a group that "w" would be his go-to guy on the middle east, that the man who called himself the decider will once again be back in action
that the people who brought us the most ridiculous foreign policy decision in modern history, that ted kennedy called the most important thing he ever voted against, is coming back to the political stage. jeb says if you want to figure out his thinking on war in the islamic war, think "w." why did he do it? because being a hawk is the one thing that unites republican presidential candidates these days. because he's not getting the traction on common core and thinking positive about illegal immigration. whatever the reason the idea that we could get another president along the lines of "w" is frightening. does this mean dick cheney has his bags makd and is heading back into the war room? i'm joined by msnbc political analyst david corn of "mother jones" and jonathan cape hart. you're chuckling. jeb bush has named his brother, former president george w. bush as his lead thinker on foreign policy when it comes to israel and as the "washington post"
pointed out, quote, embracing george w. bush as a foreign policy confidant is a risky and unexpected move. while the former president's approval ratings have improved since he left office in 2009 his foreign policy legacy particularly the long war in iraq, remains deeply unpopular. got that right. according to a cbs/"new york times" poll conducted last year, 75% of the american people three-quarters of it say that the iraq war wasn't worth it. by the way, bush dropped this bombshell at a tuesday night fund raise we are republican mega donor paul singer. up until now jeb bush had been trying to distance himself from his family. he's been careful to emphasize that he's his own man ever since he first expressed an interest in running for president. here he was. >> what impact does having a father and a brother who have served as president weigh on your decision to potentially run? >> if i was to go beyond the consideration of running, i would have to deal with this and
turn this fact into an opportunity, to share who i am. it doesn't bother me a bit to be proud of them and love them but i know for a fact that if i'm going to be successful going beyond the consideration, then i'm going to have to do it on my own. >> david corn, that idea is dead now. he wants to bed with the "w" on the middle east. what do you call it? >> i think it's a mistake. if he's' elected he'll appoint bernie madoff to run the s.e.c. and it's not just george w. that he's talked about advising him n.february shortly after that speech you just showed he revealed a list of his foreign policy advisers 17 of the 21 served in the george w. bush administration and helped give us the iraq war, including your favorite paul wolfowitz. >> yeah. >> so he's not showing any distance on the iraq war, and, you know on that list conspicuous and absence, people
like condi rice who might have been a little more skeptical so here we have jeb bush you know i don't think it was purposeful but i think the fact is there that he's tied to these people and to his brother who gave us one of the biggest foreign policy mistakes of all time and listen, you know whether hillary's campaign does it or not, there will be superpacs out there that will spend a lot of money, whatever george w.'s approval ratings are at the time reminding people about this war and also about the economic crash that happened on his watch. >> sure. hey, jonathan. >> yes. >> i know the country people are very pro-israeli generally in this country and that's part of our culture but there's something different going on. people may be hawkish in general terms now, some people. let's really show those people but nobody wants a war again. nobody wants to go in there on the ground like "w" did so stupidly and cheney pushed him and my sarcastically favorite is cheney, dick chain, and always
will be of all the hawkish guys out there. why would he say and listen to a guy who got us in that rabbit hole, a hopeless situation in iraq that we're never quite able to get out of? >> i'm not sure after saying that he's going to be his own man and that we'll have to judge him on his own merits i'm not sure why he would to it or what benefit it would gain him. look, it makes sense when you think about it why he would turn to his brother for advice because his brother has actually sat in the oval office has had to make decisions about, you know, war and peace, about how to -- >> but he made the wrong ones. >> i get, that i get that. he made the wrong decisions. he made the wrong decisions, that's correct. >> he's a negative example. >> he's a negative example, but, again, it's someone who has experience in the job, but the problem that he has is the country still remembers that war and hates that war, whether they are democrats or republicans. republicans still do not like
george w. bush all that much not so much because of the war, because of what they view as the profligate spending during his administration when they wanted a conservative who was going to get into the white house and cut, cut, cut. instead the deficit grew and exploded under president bush and so jeb bush is in a damned do and damned if you don't situation here >> the polls in iowa and new hampshire paint two different pictures of jeb bush's candidacy right now. a quinnipiac university poll of iowa republicans this week found that jeb bush had slipped into seventh place with support from just 5% of likely caucus-goers. that's way at bottom and a new wmur poll shows jeb bush just narrowly leading the back up in new hampshire with 15% which is not very good if you consider the fact, coming back to you, david, you know that president reagan went up there, bill clinton went up there, leaders tend to win in new hampshire. >> right. >> and the fact is he's been around a long time jeb bush. fact that he's barely ahead up
there and way in the back in iowa means he's got to push a couple of buttons. looks like he's pushing the hawk button. >> i don't think that's going to win him votes. other hawks in the race whether it's marco rubio and ted cruz in a way and i think he has -- he's hitting the early ceiling. if you talk to people who do focus groups of republican voters a lot of them say we just don't want another bush. i'm not even sure it's because of the war. they don't think that fondly of the last one and want something new so i think wrapping his arms around george w. bush isn't going to gain him ground in new hampshire or iowa. i think it was a mistake. i think he made a very very big mistake as he has done on occasions. he's been okay as a campaigner the past few months but when his book came out a year and a half and tried to talk about immigration, jeb bush made many mistakes so i think he just kind of you know lost it the other night. >> clearly it may be a case of pandering. it was before a jewish group, and i think it was probably a
bunch of hawks in the group and i assume from the way he addressed them and i'm wondering, progressives might agree or moderate progressives it's nice to know when there's a general election that you can imagine voting for either of the two candidates but here jeb is signing up saying i'm not anywhere near the middle like you thought i was. i'm not something like a thoughtful republican who thought we made some mistakes in the past even my brother made them but i'm just signing on. i'm just signing on to the mistakes of the past so how can you even think of voting for me? that's what it's doing to me, john. >> you know what -- what venue where jeb bush said this which is what i found interesting. he said this at a fund-raiser, a private event where people at the event told someone in the press. if he had done this in a foreign policy speech, if he had done this during an interview, say on "hardball," then i think it would have a much more explosive effect. he could effectively come back
out and say, no no no no i'm my own man and the more david talks about this actually think that david is right that this is a mistake or jeb bush was hoping that this wouldn't get out. >> working a particular audience, which politicians do, by the way. the audience that makes more than 47%, obama going out to san francisco with a very wealthy crowd up on nob hill talking to people who cling to their god and their weapons. one thing about social media david, you can't keep secrets. >> you can't, and fact he said this is out, that the bush campaign is not denying that he said it because he know he said it, and i think there are a lot of a group of rich voters on the issue. all he's saying is george w. bush is may number one advisers because i'm not sure that they are going to like that.
>> i think they would believe in intelligence and sophistication some more hard thinking i mean give me a break. i don't care how hawkish you are. the "washington post" reported this week that bush advisers are taking a long view of the upcoming campaign hoping to bank enough money to outlast his rivals through a potentially long primary season and late last year bush himself famously said bush would be willing to lose the primary to win the general. here he is. >> i kind of know how a republican win, whether it's me or somebody else and it has to be much more uplifting, much more positive much more willing to you know to be practical now in washington lose the primary to win the general without violating your principles. >> it looks like he gave up on that theory jonathan. it looks like now he wants to win the primaries. he'sing to say what the audience wants to hear and he's not going to push common core or i have an hispanic family and i'm kindly
disposed to immigrants because that's not summoning the people that put the money up. >> and already being nicey-nicey on those two issues. i think what happened when governor pence did what he did on the so-called religious freedom law that he signed the furor over that. swreb bush was the first one to jump on board that and when governor pence changed his mind he had to backtrack so governor bush i think has decided i've gone against the party on two things, i can't go against the party and the base on anything else after that. it's great for them to -- to try to play long ball and try to have it be a marathon here but in a campaign republican campaign where all of these candidates are going to have a billionaire adopter, if he doesn't get a billionaire adopter, it doesn't matter what happens in iowa or new hampshire or south carolina. >> that's the key thing. >> okay. >> everybody -- maybe not everybody, but at least ten candidates or so will all have enough money to stay in the hunt
whether they win or lose these primaries and caucuses. >> whether they deserve to be in the race or not. >> i'm glad to see that prostitution is still legal in nevada, guys and that's where they go for the big money. thank you, david corn and jonathan caper. coming up deflategate. tom brady commitsled pr equivalent of intentional grounding and dodges questions about that nfl report that found that the patriots probably cheated and he probably knew about it, and now the league is considering what, if anything to punish the guy with and see if they do it. plus, the growing fear of home grown terrorists depend, concern that they are not you go the -- not you go security across the country and president obama goes to nike to tell them to just do it on passing the trade bill and let's end with a day that should be called mom's day.
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welcome back to "hardball" the sago of tom brady and deflategate continues. the nfl is expected to announce any day what if any, punishment the star quarterback and his team is going to go. an nfl commission report this week found it more probable than not, of course that two employees of the team purposefully deflated balls to give brady an edge and he likely knew about the scheme. last night in a pre-scheduled appearance at salem state university up in massachusetts before a very very friendly home crowd brady was asked about the report. his response was the pr equivalence of an intentional grounding. >> i don't have really any
reaction. our owner commented on it yesterday, and it's only been 30 hours so i haven't had much time to digest it fully but when i do i'll be sure to let you know how i feel about it. >> are you that slow a reader? >> well my athletic career has been better than my academic career so usually i'm used to reading xs and os. this was a little bit longer. >> when do you plan to address this publicly? >> hopefully soon. hopefully soon. there's still a process that's going forthright now, and, you know, i'm involved in that process so whenever it happens, it happens, and i'll certainly want to be very comfortable in how i feel about the statements that i make. >> has this however, detracted from your joy of winning the super bowl? >> absolutely not. >> well anyway joining me right now are two former nfl players with their own views on the report dante stallworth a former wide receiver for the washington redskins and
philadelphia eagles and the new england patriots where he played with trade and randal hill is a former wide receiver for the miami dolphins arizona cardinals and new orleans saints. thank you all, gentlemen. i don't know what you thought -- you guys know more about the game that i do but what do you think about the pr? he has an interview, never ask him the question never ask him the simple question. did you know about them fixing the balls. what do you think about the whole interview process last night, what was that about? >> i think it was already intentional that jim was going -- not going to delve too much into the controversy of the balls but tom brady was prepared to answer as far as he went. >> what did he say? i said it was an intentional grounding. i don't think he even tried to answer. can you remember a word he said i can't? >> i just remember the fans and the crowd. >> yeah. they were cheering him on. he's their favorite -- he's their easter bunny up there. what do you think, randall? first, let's skip to the chase here. do you know anything about this kind of stuff going on?
ever hear about quarterbacks because apparently the fumble rate somebody e-mailed me on this thing, the fumble rate for the patriots is practically the least fumbles so handling a ball that's not fully inflated apparently apparently is easier than a fully -- than a fully inflated ball. it's softer and easier to grab on so it's helped them in a number of ways your thoughts? >> when you talk about the surface area of a football and if you take your hand and try to put it against a wall and try to grip the wall and take your same hand and put it on your leg and try to grip your leg, you're going to get a better grip it's just the nature of the beast, but i played with one of the greatest pure passers in the league, dan marino and i'm sure he didn't do anything like that but times have changed you know. it's the nature of the beast, and i think the nfl, you know, they will handle it the best way they know how and will protect that shield and make sure that this integrity check will come to pass. >> what do you think, you think there's going to be a hit for this guy, a couple games suspended, that kind of thing?
what else can they do go after draft picks which probably drives the teams crazier? what do you think is the stronger punishment, three or four games off wittle it down to one or two or do they go after draft picks? >> well i think that what they will do is go after draft picks and may even go after a two or three-game suspension and also get maybe into the owner's pocket because now you're talking about institutional control which we've all heard that as it relates to the ncaa so i think all are on the table and what happened last year with all the off season and on field and off-the-field and theics of players, they are not going to let that happen this year. not going to let it happen. >> it's an awful thing, we're guys talking about this but the idea of comparing this to a guy beating up his girlfriend in an elevator in human terms, deflating a ball is nothing compared to that. >> right. >> but in football scoring terms it's one of those asterix things. this affects the game. >> yeah and that's one thing that the nfl is always --
especially with roger goodell coming in as the new commissioner. he's always tried to lay down the law. one of the things he's big on is the integrity of the game and protecting the shield, but when you look at all the instances, i mean, at end of the day the actual fine for -- for these issues would be a $25,000 fine but i think all eyes will be on the nfl to see what type of discipline they do hand down to tom brady and/or the patriots and even possibly the two assistants. >> the scandal has hit brady hard, of course and you couldn't tell last night. this is the funny part. he received a hero's welcome from up there in boston or up there in salem. packed at that event at salem state university. let's watch the reaction to this hero of theirs. [ cheers and applause ] >> this is like a patriot pep rally. >> tom, it looks like you picked a pretty friendly place to reappear.
>> i love you, tom brady! >> i love you, too. >> the ted wells report was just released. [ crowd booing ] >> what is your reaction tom to the ted wells report? >> who cares! >> who cares, i mean this is like -- i would call that softball up there. let me get back with you, randal. this audience approval number was pretty high last night. it's in new england, i went to school up there at holy cross. it's a new england thing. i don't want to knock anybody, but there's something about new england, they get behind a teams, they really behind it. this is a regional cultural thing with the people up there. like the red sox fever thing, you know which is hard to understand unless you live up there. >> well, let's straighten it out. first of course, you said boston. it's really boston. got to say it right. >> all right. thank you. >> they -- they are absolutely fanatical fans and rightfully so because their team has fared
well over the past decade or two, but with that being said you know you have to now look at what's going on behind the scenes and again, the nfl is going to look at what has happened in the past this past year with players not acting right, players not performing right, players acting bad off the field, so they are not going to let that transition on to the field antics such as deflating balls and/or having balls deflated. >> let's do some real damage here. who has the best future russell wilson or tom brady? >> the best future. >> best future. >> wilson. >> you fresh off the line there. >> i'm looking at wilson. >> if you're talking about on the field, russell wilson. he's younger than bradiy. >> i'm watching that guy. he's going to be something. >> you were so fast on that one, randal, thank you. >> up next the knew sci-fi movie could be the sleeper hit of the something. it's about artificial
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quality eyewear for doers. sears optical welcome back to "hardball." there's a new movie out already being hailed as this summer's sleeper hit, a work of science fiction. it's the story of what happens when the eccentric founder of a massive technology firm invites a young computer programmer to test his latest innovation in extremely life-like robot called ava. it shows how developing technology can outpace humanity's ability to not only understand it but to control it. the film is being praised by critics as one of the most realistic depictions of artificial intelligence that we've seen from hollywood in years, and here's a clip.
>> hello. >> hi. i'm caleb. >> hello, caleb. >> do you have a name? >> yes. ava. >> i'm pleased to meet you, ava. >> i'm pleased to meet you, too. >> well the film opened last month in just four theaters but the response has been so positive it's getting wider release on 2,000 screens starting today. joined right now by the film's director and writer alex garland. why do these robotic women always have these sexy voices something that comes with the science? always amazingly seductive in their voices your thoughts? >> do you remember hal in 2001. >> no, i didn't.
he said i'm scared dave. this one does largely because of the actress that plays her. i think she's responsible for the voice. >> so what is this about. is it about what we've thought about ever since the beginning of movies which was "frankenstein es," man's ability to create and resurrect and finding ourselves at war with our own creation whether it's "hal 9000" or "bladerunner." >> i didn't actually afroch as a cautionary tail in that "frankenstein" type way. i actually thought about it as -- as feeling there was a lot of anxiety about artificial intelligence floating about, a lot of concern. it comes from the tech world, but it comes more broadly, you know from scientist stephen hawking and elon musk and so on and talking about it recently and i didn't feel that way. i felt more interested and almost optimistic about it so i thought i'd try to make a film that was kind of a pro a.i. film
instead of one that's anxious about it. >> what's the difference between a robot and that kind of artificial intelligence where you think you're talking to a person? >> yeah. it has to be said that we've got plenty of artificial intelligence around on the moment. sirri on your cell phone is artificial intelligence and get them in cars that can park themselves and planes that can fly themselves, soin on and so forth and this is something different, a self-aware machine, a machine with consciousness which is what we've got. a chess computer doesn't know it's a chess computer. it doesn't know it's playing chess but you know you're a human and i know i'm a human and that's something really distinct and it's something that we haven't yet managed to achieve, but if we do it's going to have huge consequences for humans and it's something which is quite possible, something that we've got to think about. >> it's interesting about this subject, "bladerunner the" the
replicates were afraid of being detected because they would be destroyed. what's the fear of artificial intelligence, afraid of being turned offer, or do they have a life of will or is that the same as us? >> it would be the fear of death real which is the same as us but actually the real fear i think, is not from them to us not least because they don't exist yet. it's from us to them. i think humans tend to perceive a.i.s as being kind of a rival to them. >> yeah. >> we create these stories about them enslaving us you know terminator, skynet taking over everything and we feel threatened by them and i think part of the film was to say you don't have to feel threatened by them. they are actually -- if you did make a machine that was sentian, in many ways the machine would really be like us because that's what we value in each other and what human rights are based on. >> spent years thinking about
the "hal 9000" trying to kill us. congratulations. >> you really are the creator here. the movie is called "exmachina. "military bases on heightened alert across the country this weekend all because of the threat of home-grown terrorists and we've got a bit of the personality of that guy down in texas right before he was killed. what he was up to. he'll show you that tonight. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. when we cook for someone, we are sharing a little bit of our soul. to life! and when we eat, we begin with our eyes. just as the beauty of the food entices you to try it, the beauty of the website should entice you to explore it. i am eric ripert and this is my squarespace. you're finally here. long way from the sandlot. first game in the majors?
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5.4% and four people are dead following a plane crash in georgia. the plane went down on interstate 285. nobody on the ground was hurt. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." all u.s. military installations are on increased level of alert this friday night following an fbi director report james comey's revelation, that the fbi is investigating hundreds of potential home-grown extremists right now with cases open in every one of the 50 states. he says the threat is going. comey warns hundreds maybe thousands of people in the u.s. are following jihadist social media and it's like the devil sitting on their shoulder saying kill, kill kill. defense officials say there's no specific threat against the military right now, but noted that isis consistently encourages its followers to attack people in uniform and that the u.s. military quote, shares the same concern about the potential threat posed by home-grown violent extremists. isis is claiming responsibility you all know for sunday's
failed attack in texas on an exhibit featuring caricatures of the profit muhammad. home grown jihadists were killed during by police during that attack after they were alerred simpson's interest in the event by the fbi. comey said i know there's other elton simpsons out there. here's elton simpson himself talking about islam back in 2007 in a video put out by his mosque in phoenix. >> when you come together and you pray five times a day with the brothers and you're reminded about the hereafter and provides for you a form of weaponry to go out into the real world and use that weaponry to shield you against the tricks of the satan. >> well isis called simpson and soofi soldiers for the call fate and promised similar attacks.
>> all, i mean this kind of amorphous warning does me no good because it says somebody may be listening to this tokyo rose sort of argument, this propaganda, and they may act on it. we don't know if there is anybody or who they are, but somebody is going to do something maybe because they have been encouraged to do it so like you go on the amtrak if you see something, say something. what good is this? i don't get it. what does high alert mean here a bravo alert, second level alert? >> i agree with you. comey's statement seems way out of line. >> is it a cya? just to say he did it? >> i don't know why he's doing it. if you really thought were you under threat, would you announce it or would you just wait for the people to show up and arrest them? >> yeah. >> why is this a global story? why is he announcing it? >> well i'm wondering when does it stop because he's saying in that staple they have
consistently said go attack the military what's new, pussycat what's new tonight and new tomorrow night and the next night? shall we walk around and terrorism wins. >> says this is probably the new normal. what is it? >> the new normal basically the bravo level potentially. >> it's not charlie and it's not delta. >> the bravo, alpha used to be the new normal. >> do you think it's going to stick for a while? >> i do think it's going to stick for a while but you have to look at what the bravo level does as well and to me it seems like basic common sense, that they should be check into military bases to make sure they don't have explosives. they will be doing stricter check of the cars. >> they do that when you go to arlington cemetery. >> and they will be making sure that military personnel are who they say they are and it seems to me a lot of the things they are doing is again, basic common sense things that they out to be doing on military bases already. >> john? >> you know -- >> tell me about this whole thing. where are we at on a war on
terror which is a metaphor to begin with not shooting rifles at guys shooting with the idea that someone might be infected on ideology who yesterday was studying math but now a jihadist. >> the propaganda is being turned back on us look at our wars against people tokyo rose and thing likes that didn't have the huge impact inside the united states. may have had an effect on soldiers in the theater but not here. >> yeah. >> we've done this for years, you know voice of america and other kinds of efforts and this is first time because of the internet that we as a society are starting to have to deal with people using propaganda against our people and i think it's -- it's a question that we have not really dealt with in this country at all and i don't know whether there is an easy answer to that. >> you're on to this. a free society. do we do counterpropaganda? you know for years, any broadcaster or program produced by the united states information agency for overseas use was not
permitted under law to show this. you're not to propagandize. the government certainly can't do it. >> how do you try to control that content that's out there. i think twitter does a pretty good job of trying to kill off twitter accounts but reality is they kill one and the guy just goes and opens up another one. >> yeah. >> as a society, i don't know that we're in a place where we're going to say -- >> do we want our country, roger, to tell us what not to pay attention to. this guy is an african-american guy, simpson, i'm assure there was a staging, became a muslim and at some point he became radicalized? >> i mean, the story has implications regarding social media because apparently he became radicalized, at least partially, because of what he read and saw on social media, and then he sees that there's going to be this competition in garland competition. >> a mock drawing. >> drawing pictures and that's on to social media, and then he
announces foolishly perhaps for him on seeshl media that he and his pal are going to garland, texas. >> why did he do that? >> why. the fbi monitors that. they tell everyone that they monitor that and so they send out a picture to the police around garland, texas, saying this guy may be heading your way. he was and he got shot presumably shot somebody first, shot at somebody first. >> so a local policeman did it. that was the only defense we had in the end was a local policeman. >> it goes beyond social media. on a watch list before this. plenty of guys on a watchly, and i think that's where a lot of the outrage -- >> how do you run down every guy on a watch list because if you can't prosecute and they are free to move where they are. >> right. >> how do you catch them? >> well that's exactly what they have been struggling with. >> we're a free country. >> allots of the lone wolf attacks, that's exactly what the federal government is struggling with is how do you -- you catch them.
a lot of the times some trying to fly over to join icircumstances they get them at the airport. >> yeah. >> how do you get them before they get to the airport, you know? >> it's a free country. it's not 1984 you know. >> the government can't step in and say well -- we think that you may actually decide this time. said it five times, let's say, you're going to commit some kind of act, this time we think you're going to do it and we'll put new jail. >> like the tom cruise report "minority report" because they might get you for what you might do in the future because they could project it. we'll be right back. the roundtable is back. president obama tells democrats to just do it out at nike headquarters urging passage of the big trade deal. normally you think of nike as a company that shifts jobs overseas. this is "hardball," the place for politics. smash it with jublia! jublia is a prescription medicine proven to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. look at the footwork! most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application site redness, itching, swelling burning or stinging, blisters, and
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be made in the usa, and that means thousands of new jobs and manufacturing and engineering and design at nike facilities across the country and potential tens of thousands of new jobs along nike's supply chain here at home. that's what trade can do. >> we're back with the roundtable. roger, francesca and john. that was president obama out there at nike headquarters in beaverton, oregon where he was rallying authority behind the fast track authority needed to deal with 12 countries, known as the transpacific partnership or tpp. the president has three words for congress where the legislation is currently being debated, just do it but most of the opposition and the trade deal itself is coming from his usual allies pegs lit labor unions and took aim at them today out in oregon. >> there have been a bunch of critics about trade deals generally and the transpacific partnership, and what's
interesting is typically they are my friends coming from my party. on every progressive issue they are right there with me and then on this one, they are like whooping on me. i don't have any other rationale for doing what i do than this i think it's the best thing for the american people. and on this issue, on trade, i actually think some of my dearest friends are wrong. they're just wrong. critics warn that parts of this deal would undermine american regulation. food safety, worker safety even financial regulations. this is -- they're making this stuff up. this is just not true. >> roger when i hear the president, i think of woodrow wilson sawing the league of nations. i mean there are parts of the democratic party whether you go to the western states like western state or virginia when they're doing well in high-tech, but a lot of the industrial part of the country, the democratic base in the midwest, the rust belt, they're fighting them. >> and you can see why. you can be a good democrat and still be against the president of this issue.
the president says that you know, if we do this deal the workers in south vietnam are going to get more money, they're going to have improved working conditions, and they're going to be able to unionize. i think he's probably one of the most intelligent presidents we've ever had. but i think he's forgotten that it's a communist country there. they're not going to do these things. communists aren't for unions. they pay their workers 56 cents an hour for a reason. they don't want the playing field level. you pay your workers 56 cents an hour we'll compete against the united states all day and all night for that. >> yeah well we're going to have a debate on this but a number of democrats, including some smart ones cantwell, murray, people like that are for this thing. probably warner and kane. >> elizabeth warren.
>> well, i don't know what she's doing exactly here. what is she -- is this just rallying the left or is it -- massachusetts doesn't do bad -- massachusetts is not an anti-trading state. it's a high-tech state now. >> i don't think it's about that. >> it's not about the self-interest of the state you represent? >> i think a lot of it has to do with politics and the secretness of this deal that he's negotiating. you know -- >> secret? every member of the senate is allowed to read it anytime they want. >> i think they're worried that there's going to be a lot of secret provisions that lobbyists could go ahead and stick in there. i think they're worried -- >> wait a minute. every day, they get to look at it that day. if there's any change at any given time they get to look at it and see it with a staffer. >> i think they're worried he is going to make an agreement and not only sell the farm but sell the cattle. >> why would he do that? >> why would he do that? >> why do they mistrust the guy they've been following for six years? >> the administration really wants to make a deal and i think they're worried that he is going to give up too much to make this deal. and that's why a lot of
democrats are sitting on the fence -- >> john let's talk turkey here. the labor unions in this country are not powerful in general elections, but they can mess with you. if you mess with them they'll mess with you. acfsme is state levels. manufacturing certainly is. i think it's a solidarity issue with labor. which is fair enough. they've said this is our fight, stick with us just be us. this is like card check. we've got to win this one. i think it's politics. >> it is politics to a certain degree. but also it's not just the labor union, it's also environmental groups human rights organizations, and they look at previous trade deals including those done under the clinton administration and say, you promised this was going to be the most progressive trade agreement ever and in the end, we didn't get anything. >> so where do we go on trade? i know what you're saying here. i hear the politics. you're all right. you're definitely painting the picture the way it is. he's in the corner on this.
but we started to trade in the '60s and '70s. and people said send the toyotas back to japan. send the hyundais back to korea. the fact is most americans get up and they like to be able to choose what kind of car they want to buy. they like the fact there's competition, you can buy a german car, a japanese car, a korean car, or a really good american car now, thanks to the competition. everybody knows that the ford car is so much better than it was because of competition. the clothes we buy, the opportunities -- so there is a piece of this we don't get into. who's fighting for the consumer out the there. anybody? >> you hit it with the fact that the labor unions are not most people. right, but they are very loud. it was the democratic party and the base for primary votes, especially for house members. >> john you remember when cars lasted about 2 1/2 years? i have a car now that i think, it's got a few dents in it was i feel guilty if i sell it because it's been so good. i haven't had to take it to the shop. you know ever! that's brand-new. that's something i didn't grow
up. we grew up with cars that were big fins big fins, they lasted a year and a half two years. anyway, thank you, george simon, franchesca chambers, thank you for coming on and john stent, as always. when we return let me finish with the day that should be called mom's day. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. national gives me the control to choose any car in the aisle i want. i could choose you... or i could choose her if i like her more. and i do. oh, the silent treatment. real mature. so you wanna get out of here? go national. go like a pro. i have type 2 diabetes. i started with pills. and now i take a long-acting insulin at night. i take mine in the morning. i was trying to eat right, stay active. but i wasn't reaching my a1c goal anymore. man: my doctor says diabetes changes over time. it gets harder to control blood sugar spikes after i eat and get to goal. my doctor added novolog® at mealtime
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compared to raising three children and now having two grandchild to boot. that's michael, thomas caroline, our daughter-in-law, sarah, julie, and brendon. six charming young people who see us as parents and grandparents, especially julia and brendon, who will spend their lives thinking of us as grandparents, pure and simple. that's all we are to them. don't you remember how hard it was to really imagine your grandpop and mama as your parent's parents? to me grandmom and grandpa were simply that people born to be grandparents and that's all there was to it. so on sunday we honor the person our children look to always have, always will, as their mom. the person they go to in the world in a totally different way they do anyone else. the one who cares about them totally and without condition, who is the human definition wherever she is, of home. that's an incredible role to play in this role as incredible as being the person who gives birth to you. and it's that role that's the
one that comes to be after your born that we honor this sunday. the mother that is mom. that's "hardball," softball for now. thank you for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> they have the safety off, their finger is on the trigger for a final takeover and they are in the final phases of doing it. >> right-wing fear of a federal invasion of texas. >> i see that the federal government has taken over. >> tonight, the next governor's new explanation for using the texas guard to monitor an american military drill. and the latest presidential candidate to pander over paranoia. >> i understand the concern that's been raised by a lot of citizens. >> and the now bipartisan pushback on the president's trip to niketown. >> it's got to be the shoes! >> plus why the anti-abortion right is attacking kathleen turner, the legendary actress is here to respond. and should sex on the beach land you on a sex