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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  May 18, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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action concerning senator norm acal sister probably couldn't happen till the legislature reconvenes in january. if he's convicted before then he will then if his trial is ongoing, he could remain a state senator for the whole rest of the year while out on bond on sex crime charges. politicians disgrace comes in lots of different varieties. but disgrace and ceasing to be an elected official are two very different things. we'll see you again tomorrow. good evening lawrence. >> with that one, you have left me speechless. that is absolutely stunning. >> you and the entire state og0 vermont. that's exactly right. >> that's amazing. former white house counter terrorism expert richard clark will join us and how republican presidential candidates are handling questions about iraq. and senator elizabeth warren got a welcome in california this
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weekend and an introduction that we will have to bleep. iraq's security forces retreating in chaos. >> the key iraqi city of ramadi has fallen to isis. >> this is really serious. >> this is a disaster. >> ramadi, a city where hundreds of american troops gave their lives a decade ago. >> was it a mistake to go to war with iraq? >> this question continues to trip up these presidential candidates. >> all this was on fox news where the anchors are ordered to pre-like you. >> was it a mistake to go to war with iraq. >> that's not the same question. >> that's the question i'm asking you. >> it was not a mistake for the president to decide to go into iraq because at the time he was told. >> i'm not asking you that. >> knowing what we knew then, it was wrong. >> bush was the only one who even thought to link 9/11 to iraq.
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>> the iraqi dictator must not be permitted to threaten america. >> it was misrepresented by the bush/cheney administration. >> elizabeth warren. >> she is the [ bleep ] champion of the american people. >> this country isn't working for working people. it's working only for those at the top. >> there's a passion and a centment that she represents. >> we can whine about it. we can whimper about it, or we can fight back. me, i'm fighting back. i'm fighting back. are you ready? richard clark, the former senior white house adviser is help to help us analyze the presidential candidates answers to the first big question of the campaign. know whag you what you know now, would you as president have gone to war in iraq.
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the city of ramadi has been taken over by the islamic state after iraqi troops gave up fighting and fled. >> the retreat from ramadi was fast and humiliating. iraqi troops in a race for their lives. forcing them out, isis fighters who shot this propaganda video showing a city abandoned by the army. isis gunmen controlling the hospital in the city center. iraqi troops fought for just two days leaving behind american supplied weapons and tanks. but it's a setback for the u.s. a decade ago, nbc news was in ramadi where hundreds of american troops gave their lives to hold the city. today, ramadi is held by the world's biggest terror group and it will be tough to retake. >> joining us now is richard clark who served the previous
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three presidents as senior white house adviser. he also served as counter terrorism advisor on president obama's first campaign. the situation in ramadi tonight, what's your analysis of that?ç;ó >> i think the terrorist victory in ramadi over the weekend just points out the fact that they have a very large amount of territory. and they've held a large amount of territory now for over a year. the city of mosul, a city of over a million people. they've controlled that for a year. we used to say after 9/11 that we learned our lesson and would never again let a terrorist group have a sanctuary. well, they have a very large sanctuary. and we have no strategy at all, that i can see. no realistic strategy to deal with that. >> john kerry actually sounds optimistic about getting control of the islamic state. let's listen to this. >> their communications have
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been reduced. their funding and financial mechanisms have been reduced. and their movements by and large most certainly were there are airplane patrols in other capacities have been reduced. but that's not everywhere. and so it is possible to have the kind of attack we've seen in ramadi, but i am absolutely confident in the days ahead that will be reversed. >> i gather you don't share that confidence. >> no, i think it's possible in a week or two the iraqi forces might be able to retake ramadi. but they have no chance at all of retaking mosul this year or fallujah this year. so they control these large cities. and a huge swath of land in between. they have established the islamic state. just in iraq and syria, it crosses the border.
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they've had it now for a long time. it is a terrorist sanctuary. we as a nation have to decide whether that bothers us or not. do we think they're going to use it as a jumping off point to attack the united states at some point. if we do, then this is a problem we should do something about it. if we don't believe that, then we shouldn't really care what goes on. >> much is made every time we take out an individual in al qaeda, number two in al qaeda, i think we've had that report i don't know a hundred times. and now most recently taking out the -- basically the accountant as it were, the business manager of the islamic state. how much do those individual removals either by death or capture of those kinds of players matter? >> most of them do matter. i think this one over the weekend matters. he was actually the manager of their oil operation. it was their oil operation, smuggling oil from the oil fields they control into turkey
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that was making them millions of dollars and sustaining their operations. to the extent that he was the key player in that operation, i think it's important that they got him. they probably also got a lot of intelligence that will allow them to understand the organization better and maybe to get other people. >> i think using special forces like that, lawrence, is fine. the question is whether or not we're going to allow u.s. advisors in with the iraqi army units like the ones we just saw fleeing. without u.s. advisors in those units, i think we're going to see them continuing to flee and we're not going to be able to get all that we could get out of the u.s. air power that's there. >> i want to play jeb bush's pevolving statements. let's listen to how he handled that. >> knowing what we know now,
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would you have authorized the invasion? >> i would have. so would have hillary clinton just to remind everybody. and so would have almost everybody confronted with the intelligence they got. >> i would have not engaged -- i would have not have gone into iraq. >> that was a four-day evolution into getting it down i would not have gone into iraq. what do you make of the way these republican candidates are facing this question? >> you see that with bush, you see rubio saying something similar. on the other hand, you see senator cruz saying of course it was a mistake. so they're split. i think that the larger issue here is are they willing to admit that all of what we're seeing in the region now, the rise of isis, the falling apart of all of these governments, is because of the pandora's box that bush opened. are they willing to own up and take the blame for that. not as an individual or as a party. but are we as a nation willing to own up and take the blame for that.ç
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i think the american people are. i think the american people have been there for a long time. that does not dishonest nor the service of our veterans. it was important that they did that. it does mean that we as a nation made a mistake. as we did in vietnam. unless we can say that, there's the possibility we'll do it again. >> we saw a college student say to jeb bush, your brother created isis. and that line of discussion it seems to me raises the question of can a presidential candidate see and understand the ramifications of presidential decisions? >> well, few presidential decisions have been as obviously kons consequential as the terrible mistake of going into
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iraq. the american people supported it at the time. but about five years later, they didn't. about 80% of them didn't eventually. i think that number probably still stands, that most the american people recognize that this was a decision that george bush and dick cheney took on made up grounds and that we've all paid the price. the taxpayers, the soldiers, the iraqi people, and now the people throughout the region. enormously consequential. what it says to me is that who you elect as president and whether or not you vote for president really does matter. >> richard clark, the question being phrased now, they do two versions of it. they say was it a mistake meaning given the information they had at the time. then the other version knowing what we know now. there's a third question that isn't being asked which is, given that the intelligence on iraq was wrong, and it's not the
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first time that we've had incorrect intelligence presented to a president, given that that's a phenomenon we know that is likely to recur, that you'll be sitting in the oval office with incorrect intelligence, what do you as president bring to that moment that requires the ultimate in analytical clarity? what is it that you bring to that moment that might pierce the failure of intelligence? >> that's exactly the right question. because intelligence for 50 years on key issues has always failed us. now, i thought former secretary of defense bob gates over the weekend said it pretty clearly. he said i'm a republican, but none of the republican candidates have any experience whatsoever in national security and that bothers me. i don't know how any of those people with their limited background in national security could tell the difference when intelligence was right or wrong. it took me a long time in order to figure out how to do that. presidents need to have that
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intuition and staff who can figure out when the intelligence is right and when it's wrong. >> thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. coming up, what chris christie just said on fox news about iraq and the george washington bridge and elizabeth warren flew across the country this weekend to talk about the importance of the 2016 election and attack the republican presidential candidates without saying a word about the only democratic party declared candidate, hillary clinton. and comedian here to talk about his new show and his visits to david letterman's late night show. , scott. ez seed really works! get scotts ez seed. it's guaranteed. we all enter this world with a shout and we see no reason to stop.
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cupcake to someone who's gay. of course you have to do that, obviously. this is more about the ven door issue as it relates to do they want to provide a service to samu-" :u )jtáy is that okay?
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>> yeah, absolutely. if it's based on a religious belief. irrespective of the supreme court rule lg. because they're going to decide whatever they're going to decide. we need to be stalwart supporters of traditional marriage. you get used to stale odors in your mudroom. you think it smells fine, but your guests smell this... febreze air effects works instantly to eliminate odors you've gone noseblind to. smells like a field of awesome in here. so you and your guests can breathe happy. sunday dinners at my house... it's a full day for me, and i love it. but when i started having back pain my sister had to come help. i don't like asking for help. i took tylenol but i had to take six pills to get through the day.
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so my daughter brought over some aleve. it's just two pills, all day! and now, i'm back! aleve. two pills. all day strong, all day long. and for a good night's rest, try aleve pm for a better am. it was chris christie's turn tonight to answer the big question of the republican campaign season. >> you've said over the past week that knowing what we know now, you would not have authorized the war in iraq. any qualms about sending that message to the families of the fallen?
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>> no, because the honor that we give to the families of the fallen is still the same. this is about a strategic decision as president of the united states. if we knew there were no weapons of mass destruction in iraq, i don't believe we would have gone into iraq. if i were president, i wouldn't have authorized it. >> joining us now, howard dean. also msnbc political analyst casey hunt. political reporter steve clem mondays. this tele prompter is if you have of things that aren't true. she's an msnbc political reporter. she will leave the analysis to us. >> to the rest -- >> steve according to my card here, he's the washington editor at large of the atlantic and msnbc contributor, an introduction i don't yet have memorized. chris christie actually just handled that question in a way that made perfect sense finally. >> he did. you have to look straight ahead
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and answer it in a matter of fact way. and it helps to tell the truth which i think he was telling. >> have they settled down now? have they all gotten the question enough? even rick perry got it right the other day. is it at the point now they all understand it and they all have a smaller index card than this with the right answer on it? >> i was there and somebody told me -- he does obviously have it the most difficult. none of the other candidates are hung up on that question of loyalty because it was his brother. hillary clinton doesn't want to have this conversation either. other space. >> raises this much more
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important future question which is intelligence has been wrong, presented in the oval office and been wrong, predictive intelligence from the bay of pigs to vietnam right up to the iraq war. what are you going to bring to it as president when these difficult questions come up where the intelligence may be imperfect? >> another dimension is not only what was just talked about in terms of them not having the experience of looking at what is good and bad intelligence, that bush administration particularly the cheney wing of the foreign policy establishment was cherry picking raw intelligence. they were looking for the stories they wanted to have
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because they wanted to invade iraq. so it's one thing to look at the fact that they don't have national security experience. it's the other thing to admit the fact that they have a number of people who said to hell with that, we're going to go after saddam hussein and finish the gulf war that we didn't finish before. >> you were on the way to the white house until voters got in the way. think about that, though. you're in the oval office. and you know, you know the history. they've been wrong a lot. they didn't tell the president that pakistan was developing a nuclear bomb. would have been pretty important to know. they never predicted that the soviet union was going to collapse. so you know all these mistakes they've made. now they're presenting with you with possibly a war decision based on intelligence. >> i can tell you how i came out against the war.
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i supported the previous wars including president busch the first war in iraq because i thought we had treaty obligations to kuwait. the guardian and independent publishing data from mi6. they have the closest relationship in the world with the american intelligence. i knew that if the british intelligence agency said there were no weapons of mass destruction as cheney was trying to hint, there was no atomic weapons program that our cia knew it. >> we did know it. richard pearl and i debated. he said that pow well had created one of the greatest traitorous acts by forcing us to go through the united nations. there was great deal of knowledge that we would not find wmds. >> i think we deliberately went to war knowing they weren't there.
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i think to answer the major question you asked, in order to do an adequate job analyzing anything, whether it's intelligence or foreign affairs or the health care bill, you have to hear from sources outside the government f. you only hear from sources inside the government, there's no guarantee you're going to get the right perspective. >> there were questions too about whether were we going to war because there were weapons of mass destruction or was the bush administration trying to build the case the other way around. a lot of people would argue that the bush administration wanted to go to war and how do you line up the evidence to back that up. there's a lot of glossing over in the debate the republicans are having. >> let's listen to what chris christie just said on fox news. we're not going to talk about the chris christie campaign for very long, i don't think.
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>> the polls in new jersey right now say by a 69 to 29% margin, you would not make a good president. they know you the best. why shouldn't we trust them. >> they want me to say. a lot of those people in 65% want me to say. >> but they say you would not make a good president. 5ki >> i think people hear the question they want to hear. >> they want him to stay. >> he's in big trouble at home. look, my numbers went down when i ran too. it's a very clever thing he said. but first of all, if they don't like you in the first place, they're going to give you bad numbers. i was in new jersey last week, chris christie, punching bag in new jersey. 25% favorablebilities, that's really bad. coming up, we have a new champion of the american people. >> thank you.
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john burton has seen it all in american politics. he's the 83-year-old chairman of the california democratic party. he served as a congressman from california. this weekend at the california democratic party convention, he gave himself the honor of delivering the introduction of the convention's most important speaker. and after a career of introducing america's most important democrats, including democrats presidents, john burton dispensed with the political niceties and invoked his grandmother to deliver the
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most ebb enthusiast ik introduction he's ever delivered in the fewest possible words. >> this is a real honor for me. you know, i've been lucky to introduce people that have been my idols. introduce people that i heard of and never met. but this -- this is a great -- this is really a great pleasure to have her here. and as i kept thinking about what i would say, and you can say a lot, but i summed it up in words that would make my grandmother proud. she is the [ bleep ] champion of the american people. ♪ ♪
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>> thank you! thank you! all right! this is fun. thank you. thank you. >> senator elizabeth warren got the reception that only presidential candidates get at the california state party convention. and if she was running for president, she wouldn't have had to change a single word of her speech. >> just last week, jeb bush said that the way we'll fix devastating problems in baltimore is, wait for it, to blame the teachers. wisconsin governor scott walker -- [ booing ] -- recently announced a $300 million cut to the university of
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wisconsin system. that is 13% of their public university system's budget. senator rand paul has justified voting against the minimum wage by saying, and i want to quote here, it's a fact, an economic fact that when you raise the minimum wage the people that are hurt the worst are minorities and kids. now we can whine about it. we can whimper about it or we can fight back. me, i'm fighting back. i'm fighting back. are you ready? [ cheers and applause ] that's right. and -- that's right.
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and here's the best part. it's not just us. america is ready to fight back. >> senator warren went where most democrats are afraid to go, attacking republican economic policy at its origin, ronald reagan. and she did it in ronald reagan's home state. >> for more than 30 years, starting with ronald reagan, the republican leadership latched onto an idea it called trickle down economics. and then they got to work. they attacked wages. they attacked pensions. they attacked health care. they attacked unions. they attacked education. they attacked science. they attacked financial regulation. they attacked all the pieces that had built america's great middle class coming out of the great depression. why? why?
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why go after hard working people? why go after seniors and students? why? to give bigger breaks and more special deals to those at the top. trickle down economics was nothing more than political cover for helping the rich and powerful get richer and more powerful. [ applause ] trickle down economics cut the legs out from underneath america's working class. and those policies didn't end just in the 1980s. i want you to look at the republicans running for president in 2016.d% sometimes i listen to them and i think, whoa, you didn't go to legoland. you went to fantasy land. i mean, really.
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some of these guys took one spin too many on the teacups ride just across the street. >> we're going to take a break here, come back and talk about this. i want you to think about this. can you imagine hillary clinton giving that speech complete with the raised fist? so what is elizabeth warren really up to? is she really laying the groundwork for a presidential campaign in case your candidate hillary clinton stumbles? that's next. you're welcome. ugh...you're the valet? yea, sorta the valet. both drive for a living, both like to save money on car insurance and we both know you may not get
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here's how senator elizabeth warren wrapped up her speech at the california democratic party convention. >> this next election is up to you. it's up to the people in this room. because you, you are the heart and the soul and the living spark of the democratic party. you are the ones who will make change happen.
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[ cheers and applause ] so this one's for me. from my part to yours, i truly believe if we fight for our values, we will win. and i have only one question to ask you. are you ready to fight? are you ready to fight? are you ready to fight! then we're going to win this. ready to fight! thank you for being here. thank you! ♪ ♪ casey hunt, we don't know if elizabeth warren was allowed to choose her own music, but i think that's what she would have chosen. >> it's entirely possible. what you heard from her right
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there, fighting for something, do you feel like you see hillary clinton out there fighting for something? >> no, hillary clinton's out there being careful, cautious not taking any risks and looks like a manufactured candidate. >> i don't think that's true. >> the clinton foundation is such a problem is that the appearance is as though her and bill are fighting for themselves. >> i disagree. if you look at the first three or four meetings in iowa, talking about immigration, same-sex marriage. i think she is saying things -- "t you were on fire. i cannot recall the last time i saw hillary clinton on fire. >> hillary clinton isn't a fire question. she's here. she's going to be a great managing president. >> does cerebral hillary beat on fire elizabeth warren? >> i think yes. >> i'm watching someone who every day in everything she does
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everywhere she goes, everything she says, it's perfect for a presidential candidate. just perfect. and so as she starts to accumulate these days and these trips to all these different places, it starts to look like there's one person in the democratic party who's in a perfect position in case hillary clinton in some way stumbles. >> there are definitely concerned. joe biden is another person waiting in the wings kind of watching carefully. saying, okay, if hillary can't actually pull through, he's ready to step in there. i don't know that we've gotten any indications that that's the posture of the warren camp. publicly they're, you know, all about her staying in the senate, being the advocate that she is. you know, i think anything is possible. especially -- you know this as well as anyone, they're much more willing historically to take a risk.
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>> and they love getting excited by those howard dean -- >> but those don't often win. they really excite the hell out of the party and then the party picks somebody who can appeal to the middle. >> her message is one that that middle, what you would call the middle where hillary might be has sold out the middle class. the american corporation has taken over. special status legally internationally to sue against u.s. laws. when she ended that speaks, she actually talked about citizens united. there's a consistent line of thinking that it's the company versus the average working family. >> a lot of those -- >> she did talk about citizens united in the second outing into iowa. >> it's not a consistent thread through her entire message which is what i think elizabeth warren is doing when she talks about investing in ourselves and
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infrastructure. it's a broad based thing -- >> and i think it's -- of these two extraordinary women. that is elizabeth warren is that person who has a really strong point of view and a class analysis and so forth and so on. i think hillary actually is interested in running the country. i think elizabeth warren is terrific. but i think hillary clinton is equipped to be the president for everybody. i think she has an aversion to beating the hell out of the other side the way i like to. >> the key phrasing in john burton's beautiful -- >> dropping the f bomb. >> it was right for the f'ing part of it. not one of the champions of the american people along with hillary clinton. she's got that title casey. and hillary clinton's not going to be able to take that title away from her.
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>> i just wonder if he were introducing hillary clinton, would she warrant an expletive from mr. burton. >> i got introduced and the same word was used. >> yeah. >> he dropped the f-bomb. i was shocked.lri i was running for president. he was right -- he was with me. >> you were the elizabeth -- >> i was his candidate. >> john kerry was the hillary clinton candidate. >> i was his kind of candidate. if he approves of you, he uses the f-bomb. i was horrified. i was running for president of the united states and some guy drops the f-bomb. i'm going oh my god. we're going to have to break it there. thank you. when we come back, we will be joined by the one and only reporter who has actually sparred literally spars with mitt romney. aleve pm. the first to combine a sleep aid...
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there is now exactly one political reporter in the bunch who has literally sparred with mitt romney. it happened friday night in salt lake city. >> i would like you to show me some of your new moves. >> we've been waiting a long time -- you're going to put them on. >> i'm going to put them on. >> we've been waiting a long time to do this with the press. >> normally you jab a couple times. you come with a right or with a hook around the side. that's what evander told me. knock me out and i'm in trouble. >> did you get to pick the white gloves? >> i actually did pick the white gloves. they were selling them right behind us. i borrowed the pair i gave to him. >> you don't own your own boxing gloves. >> now i do, actually. i'm sorry i didn't bring them. >> did he practice at all for this thing? >> he did. in fact, he told me when we were chatting that he and evander had a sparring match ahead of time.ç he said he taught romney a
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couple things mostly for both romney and his own safety. he was concerned that romney was going to take an actual punch maybe in the wrong place. so the two of them practiced and sparred ahead of time. romney was going to wear a shirt. >> tell us how that came about. >> i covered romney for years. we've seen him in all sorts of situations. apparently he said he wanted to box with a shirt on and evander said, no, no, that's not how you do it. >> uh-huh. and so -- and you tweeted about romney without a shirt and i can't find it right here. but it was something about his dad bod not being so bad. >> well, you know -- >> he's like 112 years old. he's see him up there again. he is without question the healthiest man of his age in the united states of america.
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>> for a grandfather, he's pretty good. >> he's like 69 or something. >> about that age, yeah. >> and i mean, you know, this is more boxing than i thought it was. they actually kind of -- >> they went two rounds. you know, they pushed each other back and forth. at one point, romney had holly field on the ropes. that may have been a conscious decision on evan der's part. in the end, romney actually threw in the towel, shouted help, help. and ultimately let evander take home the -- >> look at that. >> -- the victory. >> it's almost real boxing. so and then he -- was that after the match when you -- >> no, we did that a little bit beforehand. it was a little bit of a warmup. >> what's his next bought? who's he going shirtless with next time? >> we didn't talk about that. i haven't talked to him since they actually wrapped it up. this is obviously all for a good cause in that this match will
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fund for a whole year this vision charity that does surgeries for underdeveloped countries, people who are blind. >> they took in like a million bucks for this. >> everything they did last year will be funded by this one event. >> thank you for that ring side report. coming up, we'll hear about the new show and what it's been like to sit beside david letterman in the ed sullivan theater 22 times. ...you'll ride with a feeling of complete freedom and confidence. visit your can-am dealer and test drive the spyder f3 today. i am totally blind. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24. learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com. appears buster's been busy. yeah, scott. i was about to use the uh.
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california democratic congresswoman loretta sanchez spent the weekend literally running for reporters after thisgpñ video surfaced on saturday when she -- a video of her talking about native americans. >> i'm going to his office thinking that i'm going to meet with -- right?
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because he said indian american. >> the democratic congresswoman from california apologized yesterday while speaking to the delegates at the california academic convention. >> i said something offensive and for that, i sincerely apologize. >> so far, congresswoman sanchez is the only declared democratic opponent to the california attorney general. first senator barbara boxer's seat. harris said that congresswoman sanchez's comments were quote, shocking. >> up next, he's here. he's right beside me, right here. >> there's a lot of pastiness between you and i hear. >> just go to a commercial and we're going to talk about some stuff here.
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partner you're free to focus on growing your business. centurylink. your link to what's next. gaffigan and we have a new winner for most cameos by cable news hosts in a half hour comedy. it's the jim gaffigan show premiering this summer on tv land. >> and in entertainment news -- >> daddy, stop watching tv. >> it turns your brain to mush. >> i'm doing research. get daddy another bagel. >> who's not afraid. although, what kind of knuckle head would put a holy text in a garbage bag. >> oh, come on. >> i'm tired of celebrities using their fame as a platform to promote their twisted personal agendas.
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>> jim gaffigan appears to be losing even the support of his peers. >> jim has always been a bigot. he's obsessed with bacon. who can't eat bacon? jews and muslims. that's who. shame on you, jim gaffigan. >> i'm sorry, i have no bacon. >> i ate ten minutes ago. i think i'll be all right. >> the new show is actually available right now. >> yeah. we're doing something a little interesting. we're putting an episode on my website and we put it up last tuesday and already 1.3 million people have gone there. and over -- >> including me. >> have watched the whole thing, which is amazing. and pretty rare. and i was thrilled that the viacomm people were into it. the show's eventually going to
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be on tv land. rather than me talking about it a couple months, i wanted to show an episode and let them know it's not garbage. >> i don't want to scare the audience into thinking it's you and some kids and a bunch of cable news hosts. let's look at someone else they might recognize. there chris rock. >> what do you got there? >> it's mob[-9ñ >> is that the version where jesus comes back from the dead and slays the whale and then blames it on the jews? >> well, it's always our fault. >> you're up. >> don't worry. i'll hold your bible for you. >> thank you. >> whoa, all right? >> try and find the part where the dinosaurs don't exist. >> probably next to the part where jesus is a blonde white guy. >> how did you get chris rock to squeeze that into his schedule? >> it's amazing some of these favors i've called in.
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you know, i know chris a little bit. i know you a little bit and you did it too. and rachel did it. and glen beck did it. you know, it's -- jon stewart did it. some of it is, i think, hopefully the content was an interesting idea. it's not some kind of gag. it's using these characters and these individuals to kind of tell a story in an interesting way. this episode is about me being utility as a christian and i know that, you know, people thought that was interesting. >> it's a really fun take. you sat beside dave 22 times. what was it like that first time, first time you're doing the big show? >> well, it's -- it's pretty insane. you have to understand, lawrence, i'm also from indiana. >> uh-huh. >> and so he and john medical encamp were essentially the only
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two people that got out and did something in the entertainment industry. so as a teenager, i think dave and bill murray informed sensibility for an entire generation. >> uh-huh. >> so being from indiana and eventually doing stand up on that show was -- it was the only goal for all comedians. but it was especially important for me. when i shook his hand, it was very strange. i described it as meeting mark twain. it's very odd. but it was -- you know, it's the pinnacle. i knew i could die after that. >> he found a new tone -- and i've heard you talk about it. this is a very hard thing to capture in words. we've all i know ternlized so much of his style of comedic turn. i actually knew all of the letterman writers.
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he did a morning version which lasted six months. all those guys internalized it too. we ended up talking in a way that spun off the way dave talked. >> yeah. and i think there's something about dave where i -- i also refer to it as the absence of phoniness. >> yes. >> there's signature styles. you know, there's -- him going after nbc, you know, even before there was the problem with who was going to take over, there was this -- this rebellious side. but there was a civility and a politeness to his populous rabble. >> he kind of acknowledged that the audience knew more about showbiz and about what he does than anyone else had previously acknowledged. >> he also remained mid western. he's from indiana and, you know, george clooney is from kentucky.
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>> really? >> i don't think of him as kentucky. will iraq kill jeb bush? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. fighting over the weekend has put iraq back on the front pages. isis forces took bagramadi. meanwhile back here in the states, the presidential candidates toss and turn. will someone tell them why they fought that radar?

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