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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  June 2, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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voters. and there's not a lot of votes, so every vote matters to get qatar to the world cup in 2022. that doesn't even include russia, which is next in three years, which apparently has a lot of >> per tonight on all in. >> it's gotten to the point we can give each other. >> it's a small world in a large field. >> we have 75 people running. >> as republicans decent on disney, why jeb bush may be in real trouble. why the draft elizabeth warren campaign is calling it quits. >> plus jeremy on the shocking resignation of fifa's president. barbara boxer on the melt down over the patriot act.
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a look at the private conversations about caitlyn. >> father'sa a little messed up, but she's pretty good. >> she's cute. caitlyn jenner is the father. >> all in starts now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chase hayes. there is one state that jeb bush must win if he wants to be president. his home state of florida. that for jeb bush is no sure thing. he took part in a cattle call in the state he used to govern and an event convened by the current florida governor rick scott in walt disneyworld in orlando. a new poll found bush's lead in the primary fight evaporated with registered republican-leaning voters falling from 21% in march of this year to 10% in the new survey. push is tied with at least six
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competitors including his rival marco rubio who spoke to scott summit from washington where she was voted on the patriot act provisions. he plans to fight from florida despite bush's status. also speaking at the summit perhaps the most memorable moment belonged to another gop hopeful. bobby jindal took a much-deserved swipe at the uniformity speeches. >> you pay close attention if you learn from the speeches. you learn from example that every one of the 15 are against isis and they're against abortion. you might also learn that they are for ronald reagan and for america. >> from orlando where he covered the summit is steve here on msnbc. did you learn those things and were you shocked to find those
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positions emanating from that stage? >> yeah. i guess you heard a few of those things today. shockingly. it was interesting. you talk about jeb bush there. he was the final speaker to come in person. it felt like a homecoming that the crowd was a rick scott organized event. the crowd was made up of top supporters from the business community in florida. these are people in many case who is jeb bush has a history with and go back a decade to or longer. it seemed to be more excitement. he seemed to feed off of that. i saw him speak today and today he was more relaxed and confident. this was more of the candidate he would like to be. this was probably a good day for him. he got the best reception of any there. that comes with two catches. marco rubio would have the claims of the loyalties of a lot of people. he was not able to come in person because of that vote in d.c.
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you can't match them upside by side. you say that florida is a must win state for jeb bush and that will be true, but in order for it to be a must win state to get to that point, he will have to win something before that and breakthrough in new hampshire. in nevada in south carolina. in all of those early states. you can throw iowa into the mix too. some of the others that come before florida. if you look at all of them there is nothing on paper that you look at and say jeb bush is really the strong favorite there. he's in a great position to win. it's possible that we will get to florida next year and possible at least that jeb bush won't be much of a factor at all. >> two things to note here. one is the famed florida first strategy used by current -- sorry about that. current president of the united states rudy giuliani who banked on florida and never quite made it through. that is the problem for jeb
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bush. he has to win early on. the news out of nevada. can you explain in the significance for bush? >> the first thing that you see is a danger for bush. a lot of people remember that as giuliani made this horrible miscalculation who said i will win florida and start in florida. it's not what happened. he got bushed back and in never state he got too much ground. he said i can't win iowa. now new hampshire. i won't be able to win. i am falling behind. he got forced back into florida. that's the risk for jeb bush here. you can start to see the pieces likely lining up. you start in iowa and the caucus state. he looks hostile to jeb bush. difficult to see him winning there. new hampshire is more friendly. he's not breaking 20% in the polls there. no guarantee there. he would move to nevada. the bush people were banking on getting that switch from a caucus. a caucus will be heavy on
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activists and maybe more rand paul friendly or ted cruz or whatever. they thought they would get it switched to a primary. there was chaos in nevada and the upshot is it will not be switched. they will have a wider audience. jeb bush did not get what he was expecting. that looms as a question mark. south carolina has been good to the bush family before but two things are happening that are troubling for jeb bush. marco rubio made inroads with the republican establishment in south carolina. the second problem is that lindsey graham just got in the race. no one thinks he has a real shot, but to the extent he is a factor in south carolina he will peel off bush voters. >> you persuaded. i am shorting jeb bush stock. live from florida, thanks a lot. on the other side of the aisle, three democrats are fighting.
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hillary clinton, martin o'malley and bernie sanders. in the contest is the spector of someone else. progressive hero elizabeth warren who the group run warren run has been trying to get into the race for six months. the organizers finally threw in the towel, suspending the campaign while declaring victory. why give up? did anyone actually ask warren if she wanted to run? anyone? you going to run for president? >> i'm not running for president. >> nothing could change your mind? >> david, like i said i'm not running for president. >> i'm not running for president. >> there is no way you are going to run in 2016. >> i am not running for president. you can ask it lots of different ways. >> why don't you run for president? >> i am not running for president. no means no. >> just a tiny question. are you going to run for president? >> i am not running for
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president. >> no? >> i am not running for president. >> but you also said 19 times that you are not running for president. i will give you a chance to say for the 20th time. >> i am not running for president. >> if hillary didn't run? >> i am not running for president. >> joining me is an executive director and cocreated the run warren run campaign. you and i go way back. >> we do. >> when we were teenagers and i love and respect the work you did. i never got the strategy. explain it to me. obviously i understand grass roots enthusiasm for elizabeth warren. she brilliant and all that but it seemed like she didn't want to run and you can't get someone to run if they don't want to run
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for president. >> the proof is in the pudding. we are wrapping our campaign and not gotten senator warren to change her mind. that was the understanding. to do what she did in massachusetts as a reluctant candidate. that was the understanding. we have seen such an amazing impact through our members work on the campaign with the partners of democracy of america. we changed the conversation this this country. we set the table for the 2016 election and showed there is a powerful hungry movement out there that wants to see economic inequality be the center of the race and talk about corporate special interests in washington and showing not just that there is a movement, but the movement is a powerful political force. i think the prove is in the pudding. we ran this campaign and didn't achieve our top objective. i am sad about that but you see the impact they have by running the effort together.
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>> a few things have run together in terms of shaping the issue space. the emerging primary. activist mobilization around warren and her message and bernie sanders getting into the race. a record that certainly rivals elizabeth warren. talking about the issues for the duration of his career. you have a clinton campaign that is kind of in the early stages jedsoned the tact to the center lessons that had been learned in the 1990s. is that how you are viewing the race right now? >> i think you are certainly seeing that every single declared candidate has been responding to the vibrant movement calling for bold policies to address the crisis around economic inequality. that's real. we have seen that there is a hunger in the base and beyond the base for bold policy
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proposals and affecting not just on the democratic side but rhetoric republicans are using. this has been powerful in setting the table for the kind of conversation we are going to be having and the proposals that they are making and the policies that will hold them accountable to. >> the big question is how this gets hatched out in the primer. the 2008 primary, the policy debate led people to make commitments and bid against each other. the degree of competition, real competition we see in the primary, don't you think that is going to affect how much force this has going forward? >> the real question is we have shown there is a hunger for the elizabeth warren policy ajenda. are we going to break up the big banks and expand social security? what are we going to do for the working and low income people in this country. on a broader progressive
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movement and real reform policies in this country, the climate movement. there is a progressive movement and we have shown it is powerful and going to determine the rest of the election. mark my words. >> your lips to the almighty. with the presidential candidates scrambling to attract billionaire donors americans are showing unprecedented levels of disgust with the avalanche of money. thanks in large part to the supreme court. they find 84% of americans say money has too much influence in american politics. 85%. this is not a country that doesn't agree on a lot. they believe spending should be limited by law as the numbers show. there is commute unanimity. as the times notes, there is little expectation of change. more than half of those surveyed said they were pessimistic that
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the rules would ever be improved. they coauthored today's report in the times. i have to say the numbers are striking. the country is a polarized place. particularly should it be completely rebuilt which is the language that suggested to someone who is half lifting, we want to do something radical. 85% of the people or 80% saying we are doing something radical to the system. >> there is a small group of people composed with the supreme court justices and legal scholars who had a set of ideas about money and speech. it is totally at odds with the views of most of the country. they play a counter role protecting unpopular views. >> unpopular billionaires. >> it's good to see them add to the group that the wealthiest and most powerful people in the country. >> i think there is such a gap between the holding and can
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particularly what has grown out of the citizens unite and hasn't made its way back up to the level of the citizens united. there is a lot of questions as you cover every day. that's weird about the current system. wouldn't you agree? it's really unclear what the rules of the road are. you have an fec that is defunct. it's in the deadlock. it can do very little. you have lower court rulings and this crazy legal gray area. >> basically it's a regulatory failure and comes from the fact that there is a central holding about the idea of independence. there is just no way, shape, or form that the reality matches the rhetoric in that decision and it is creating a new form of politics in this country and the country hates it. >> the country does hate it, but here's the problem for folks that are organizing on the issue. friends with larry i worked with
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him before and a law professor they have been working with on politics. the problem is the polling can be a mile wide and an inch deep. when you ask americans, what are the important problems it's very, very low on the list. when you ask if that is an open ended question or they want to you rank terrorism here poverty here and climate change here, that ends up low. that seems to be the problem they have from a political perspective. >> if i'm unemployed or my kid can't get a job, i'm not going to face the most important issue. they work in two ways. listen to people or constituents or you leave them. this poll suggests there is an opening for someone who said i will make it an issue and mobilize. there is enormous amounts of cynicism that called back. what you found is that they are hopeless about it. why would you want to push for something that has no chance of
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winning? if you area i campaign reform person and listen to barack obama in 2007 this is a guy who will change things. he single handedly blows up the public financing system and passes a moderate reform and does nothing else. >> and they come in and create a constitutional interpretation that makes reform that much more difficult from that perspective. >> recent history has not been kind to people who want this. when they find people who will support it. >> my feeling, the worse the better. the history of money and politics is huge weights of money followed by scandal and reform and we will see, mark my words, we won't see scandal. up next. how the head of the most powerful spores organization in the world went from being untouchable to stepping down within a week. they pass the patriot act fix over the objections of the
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state police arrested a man in relation to an ongoing terrorism investigation in boston which another suspect was shot and killed by police. the senior law enforcement with direct knowledge of the investigation told nbc news the second is in the process of being book and fingerprinted. his identity will be released as soon as he is processed. the man will be arrested as they follow-up on a terrorist organization. rahim was shot and killed today after he allegedly brandished a large knife at an fbi agent as they attempted to interview him. authorities say he had been under investigation for weeks by a joint terrorism task force. they had no warrant for his arrest but wanted to question him, fearing he was radicalized by isis inspired social media and would take action soon. the second suspect has not been identified. we'll be right back.
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from phillips'. a week ago he was untouchable. the head of the most powerful sports organization in the world. tonight in a stunning turn of events, he is stepping down as president of fifa four days after he was elected to a fifth term and days after the justice department handed down a 47-count indictment against 14 people associated with fifa including nine officials alleging widespread corruption in the organization. it was unclear whether that stretched all the way to the top tonight. we found out it does. he stood at the headquarters of fifa to announce they need a
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profound restructuring and he was resigning his position. they confirmed he was a focus of a federal corruption investigation. joining me now is jeremy the host of e 60 reports on espn. when i had you on the program last week i felt that basically the implied was that he is not going anywhere. he probably will escape this. the guy is the terminator. look what happened. amazing. >> it is. i don't think anyone who would tell you right now saw this coming would be telling the truth. the last line of the show we did about him said the most powerful man in sports answers to no one. it turned out i was wrong. many people were wrong. it seems that he is answering in a sense to the federal authorities in the u.s., the federal authorities in switzerland and the circle was
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coming closer. the people around him were immeshed in this and up to their eyeballs in this. i would have to imagine although we can't say this for a fact, but it was mounting pressure that led to the events of today. >> for looks that way that he too was a target of federal investigators. obviously they are the ones that american investigators and swiss have made these callers. >> we said three weeks ago on espn that because of that federal investigation he decided it would be unwise to set foot on u.s. soil. it's not a surprise in the big picture that the federal investigation would be leading to his doorstep, but it seemed that he thought he would be able in some way to ride this out. it seemed that way as recently
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as last friday when he was overwhelmingly reelected to a fifth term. >> i want to talk about that because i used to cover chicago politics. in chicago the mayor got to appoint city councilmember who is resigned. one of the great traditions of chicago politics is if you want to retire or resign you run for reelection anyway. the reason is you can get reelected and six months in say i'm resigning and mayor daley gets to say who will be your successor because he hand picks everyone. is that what he did for running on friday? >> i don't think so. i don't. i think he first of all was running for reelection all along. i think he was certainly not anticipating that press conference in brock lynn wednesday, 48 hours before his reelection or the arrests in zurich 48 hours before that congress was called.
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i think it really was a question of the heat just getting turned up all the way. i think he is going to be very busy defending himself against whatever kind of investigations are going on. we heard from the federal authorities in the u.s. that this is just the beginning of their investigation. we heard that they are expecting perhaps another round of indictments. the feds say he is not at this point a suspect criminally but he has a status. i think the word in german is -- [speaking foreign language] at least in swiss german means he is something of a person of interest somewhere between a witness and a suspect. who knows what his personal lawyers and the fifa lawyers have been telling him. i doubt he came to this decision independent of whatever they might have had to say.
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>> finally on the question of the 2022 world cup in qatar, you have done incredible reporting on the sheer rule an misery and the toll being extracted on the workers working in slave continues to construct the stadiums in qatar there. that seems to me if you were betting on the stock of qatar world cup 2022 that stock took a nose dive today, don't you think? >> that's very much the case and greg dike who runs the english football association said if he were running qatar 2022, he wouldn't be sleeping very well tonight or words to that effect. it is a very, very long process to actually move that world cup out of qatar. we are talking about a revote. there previsions under the fifa charter. you would have to assume somebody would be running against them. if there were a revote and they were running again, there is no
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guarantee they wouldn't win. the procedures have changed and it's not the vote anymore. that's a body of about 24 people typically although some people get suspend and at this point the committee is a few men short because of arrests. it's moving to the 209 member congress. and i'm not sure that countries that wanted that 2022 world cup who lost it would be interested in getting a world cup that is tainted there that might see as damaged goods. they will probably just wait for the 2026 bidding that is to take place in 2017. >> one of my favorite importance of interest. thank you, jeremy. >> thank you, chris. >> up next mitch mcconnell rails against the senate's failure to preserve the patriot act in its entirety. barbara boxer told me what he
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thinks about his behavior. >> this is a lose lose. he does what children do. change the subject, tamp your feet and attack somebody else. it was quite a performance. we did battle. until i said... you will not beat... meeeeee!!! greg. what should i do with your fish? gary. just put it in the cooler. if you're a fisherman, you tell tales. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance you switch to geico. it's what you do. put the fish in the cooler! there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips' fiber good gummies plus energy support. it's a new fiber supplement that helps support regularity and includes b vitamins to help convert food to energy. mmmmm, these are good! nice work, phillips! the tasty side of fiber, from phillips'. there's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years.
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the collection program. delivering a stunning and complete defeat to senate majority leader mitch mcconnell who fought against the bill. in a speech minutes before the vote mcconnell accused his colleague of essentially aiding the enemies of the united states. >> as the associated press declared today, the end of section 215 program is a -- this is the headline on the ap today. a resounding victory for edward snowden. a resounding victory for edward snowden. it is also a resounding victory for those who plotted against our homeland. >> just moments after she voted yes on the usa freedom act, i asked barbara boxer for her reaction to the majority leader's insistence that his fellow members of congress had
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the victory to terrorists. >> does he think he is plotting against the u.s.? fine. what is he talking about? it's a very strong act and all we did is fix the problem for the collection. i don't know what he is talking about. he went off on an anti-obama rant for it seemed like hours. it was minutes. to what end, i don't know. he is upset that he lost and didn't save face. he tried to pass amendments that made the reforms less important and he lost on that and so this is a lose-lose for him. what he did was do what children do. change the subject, stamp your feet and attack somebody else. it was quite a performance. >> the phone record collection program might be in the spotlight. a report on the fbi's shockingly
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. >> when i went to baltimore to cover the protest, there was a rumor going around among many of the activists with the residents i talked to that a low flying plane had been spotted circling the sky above the crowds. a resident that goes by the scandal said anyone know who has been flying the light plane in circles the last few nights? they tweeted back this image that appears to be looping back and forth where the unrest was focused. they uncovered evidence and a slightly larger cessna jet. the post traced them all the way back to the bureau of investigation that confirmed it provided aircraft and baltimore police department for the purpose of providing ariel
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imagery of possible criminal activity. now, a report by the associated press alleges the fbi's use of ariel surveillance goes far beyond the protest. the fbi has a fleet of spy planes registered to fake companies and collecting video and cell phone data. i am joined by one of the authors, eric tucker. first of all, what are these planes doing? >> so according to the fbi, they are taking and they are used for predicated and used for investigations for individuals on the ground when there is reason to believe there is criminal activity going on and they are capturing images and working in tandem with ground surveillance to work together for a particular ongoing specific investigation.
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>> so it's an important point that according to the fbi, these are the results of targeted specific warrants. targeted to individuals. this is not bulk collection and as far as we know they are not doing a fly over dragnet. >> correct. this is specifically targeted investigation according to the fbi. this is designed in particular for individuals. that said, there situations they say they are rare in which they can attach specific data and equipment that scoops up cell phone information. it mimics the cell phone tower and can indicate and locate a particular individual. >> so the point of these things is they can go up and they have technology that pretends to be a cell phone tower and they can listen to calls and get cell phone data from the people that they are targeting on the ground. is that right? >> they can get location data.
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i would say that the fbi, this is a very rarely used -- they indicated in rarecircumstances, they cite a particular hostage case. the primary purpose they say is for targeted predicated investigation one other thing they said they used them for is when there was a request from local law enforcement. as was the case in baltimore, they had a crime that is currently unfolding on the ground. they can lend that assistance there. >> here's a key point. the guidance on unmanned aircraft systems. they may never use unmanned aircraft system used for monitoring the activities or the lawful exercise of others secured by the constitutional laws of the united states. does that apply to these flights which is to say, can they send one up to essentially monitor or surveil people engaging in first amendment protected protest?
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>> no. they say that's not the point. the issue with baltimore became a distinction the way they describe the purpose in baltimore was because there was rioting on the ground and there were cars being burned and fights and assaults and their explanation is that that was not designed for first amendment monitoring, but because the police and fbi believed there were crimes ongoing on the ground. >> eric tucker thank you. the reaction in public and private. the introduction of caitlyn jenner "vanity fair." i thought i'd have to give him away. i tried tylenol but it was 6 pills a day. with aleve it's just 2 pills, all day. now i'm back! aleve. all day strong. i like my seafood like i like my vacations: tropical. and during red lobster's island escape, three new tropical dishes take me straight to the islands. so i'm diving fork-first into the lobster and shrimp in paradise, with panko-crusted lobster tail and jumbo shrimp in captain morgan barbecue glaze.
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. >> american people have been talking about caitlyn jenner whose interview was notable for many things including at 65, caitlyn jenner is the oldest woman to appear on that cover solo. this one includes caitlyn getting prepped for the shoot. and the tenor of the conversation has largely been encouraging. media outlets have done a decent job of appearing to glad standards and using pronouns appropriately. the stupid comments appear to be the exception. that might have a different
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tenor. one public conversation is talking about caitlyn jenner privately. it captured the moment to the first sight of the cover and sounded like it was happening in private. >> it's not that the rangers didn't miss. it's that everybody is dealing with injuries and a lot of -- is this real? i'm looking at the cover of "vanity fair." >> who is on the cover? >> that would be caitlyn jenner. >> oh, yeah. okay. she is pretty good. she is pretty good. pretty good. her mom is a little messed up but she is pretty good. >> joe. >> she's cute. how old is she. >> if i'm not mistaken chase lynn jenner is the father. >> that's bruce? i thought that was one of his daughters. >> that's him. he changed his name. call me caitlyn.
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all right? >> oh, my god. i thought that was the daughter. they had two daughters. i thought that was one of them. >> his daughters are younger. kylie or something. that's bruce jenner. that's caitlyn jenner. >> oh, my god, bro. >> you all right? >> it's interesting. >> i'm going to read that article. >> who will offer their views of this cultural milestone. i will take beauty into my own hands. olay regenerist. it regenerates surface cells. new skin is revealed in only 5 days. without drastic measures.
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joining me now, michael signarelli, author of the book "it's not over, getting around tolerance, defeating homophobia, a winning persona." also michelle is joining us. you and i are going to have an interview about your book when it's on book stands. here is my feeling about the reaction of caitlyn jenner. i have been encouraged largely by the perception. i think there's rules that you use the pronoun a person wants to use. yet i can't help but feel that there's a gap between that and what is happening, for instance, in, like -- in your neck of the woods. seriously, right? >> the locker room. >> in locker rooms, right? what is locker room conversation and the world in sports, obviously.
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>> the clip. the clip that you showed is kind of closer to what kind of is really happening in sort of a lot of houses, particularly in the locker room for my generation who grew up covering caitlyn when he was bruce, when she was bruce. it's quite a big transformation, but they're the new rules here. these are the new rules. she is caitlyn. transgender is the law -- not the law of the land, but it's the rule. >> the way you're talking about this is talking about, like, someone who showed up one day and like the king issued a new decree and you're just like well, that's the -- >> this is a new team. >> i feel like people's receptions are i got the rules about not being a jerk in this whole thing. obviously god bless people -- >> as opposed to -- it's not -- this is different. >> i think what you're saying --
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>> no, i agree. why they worry is that that -- that people learn how to act a certain way, because i think, again, we should all be kind to one another, but that the media ends up sort of coating actual, like -- the actual feelings people are having which are much more complicated. >> well, look. i do a talk radio show and i'm listening to people all day and, yeah, a lot of people are awkward, they don't get the wording, and we allow for that. it has to be an education. but i think what you're getting to is we're all leading. i think the media, the way they've handled it, we're leading this discussion. people can have their moments, but somebody has to lead the discussion and this has been great. i think we've seen that kind of leadership on how you talk about this and people will get it as it goes on. just as they've learned about
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how to talk about gay people and lesbian people and hopefully african-americans and others. >> i think that what is maybe the disjunction that you're sensing is that on the one hand, i think most people want to be respectful with their pronounces, they don't want to be bigoted. i don't know what everybody's identify of gender of what it means to be a man or a woman has changed as quickly as the language. >> this is the key to me. understanding sex and gender as distinct things, as conceptually distinct, right? that sex is a set of physical attributes, gender is a sort of identity, a self-conception. that is a radical restructuring of the way most people think about this. let's just be clear about that. now, i happen to think it's correct and i endorse it and i agree with it. but that's my point is that -- >> but it's seems like overnight -- >> but it's like do people understand what is being said here conceptually? what we're saying conceptually is profound.
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>> i absolutely do not think that people -- you know, when the producer called me and they said, i've got to be honest with you, identify not really got my mind around this yet. but you're right, you don't want to be -- not so much a jerk. this is 2015. i've been in the room as the only african-american and come through the same kind of things. people say awkward things. >> they stumble or -- >> and your response is okay. let's get on with the discussion. so i can't make -- i can't sit up here and say, you know, i'm really -- this is -- i'm fluent in this. this is -- i mean, now, in my family, this to me takes it to a whole other level. this does not mean just straight or gay, this is a whole conception of how you see yourself as a human being. >> a complicated issue about gender. but i do think it breaks down in -- by age. it breaks down according to different regions of the country. i think people have more of an understanding and i think, again, it's part of that education when you talk to young
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people about it. they have more of an understanding of gender as fluid. it's not necessarily about your biology. >> do you think it's true? >> i think it is. i think they're getting it. >> well, yeah, among young people i've had this conversation. i've written about this. there's some conflicts especially within feminism over these issues. a lot of the feminism, the abortions funds no longer want to use the word woman in relation to aboard because it excludes transmen. >> because when we're talking about reproduct i have -- the physical attribute that's allow one to give birth, right? that is part of the category that is sex, right? that's a physical category. that's not gender. >> right. so there's been this kind of move to remove the word "woman" from a lot of language around abortion funds and there's a lot of ways feminisms -- not only second voice feminists who say -- if you take women out of this, and you kind of take an understanding of patriarchy out of this, there's conceptual murk to clear away.
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but among younger people, it almost seems amazing to them the need to have gender neutral language. >> i think that we have to really be clear about that. i think in an ideal world, but the clip that you just played, i think that that might be a little more part of the norm than we might like. >> clear about life or trans folk necessary this country. they face tremendous amounts of discrimination, tremendous amounts of violence, unbelievable examine shocking amounts of violence. and i thought laverne cox, who is an actress on "orange is the new black," she made this point. when she did this "time" magazine cover, people called her drop dead gorgeous. she said there are many trans folks because of genetics and their lack of material access will not be able to embody these standards, meaning the sort of classical feminine standard. laverne cox is on the cover. so is caitlyn jenner.
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caitlyn jenner looks like a million bucks, literally looks like a million bucks. she looks incredible because she's on the cover of a glossy magazine where everyone looks incredible because they've all had the use of makeup. annie lebowitz is that's not the reality of most trans people in this country. let's be clear. >> and absolutely. most trans people are not living in a hollywood cocoon of some kind. they're living on the streets where there is violence, where they are clocked, where they are harassed. >> and let's just say, where they stick out. this is also an important point. the very fact that you could look at that cover like those people did and say oh, that's a woman. there's lots of people who have a heavy eye and they don't conform. >> also, there's a backlash to the larger lgbt quality. there's a backlash to marriage equality. it's playing out on the streets. we've seen gay bashing explode
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in new york and washington state, both places after marriage equality. the people experiencing that are the more marginalized, which are transgender women of color in particular on the streets. so we have to be aware of that. >> but i think there is a connect -- i mean, i don't think these exist in entirely separate realms. for example, you have to know these clerical bathroom bills. >> some states to keep transpeople out of bathrooms. >> mike huckabee has talked about them. mike huckabee said a very dumb thing about this today. talking about the state is going to make your 7-year-old girl go into a bathroom with a 42-year-old man. >> in as much as caitlyn jenner, laverne cox, as much as they can normalize what has been considered a very exotic issue just a decade ago, in as much as they can make people comfortable enough to feel like these bills are ridiculous, i think it can end up having a huge impact on people on the ground. >> i 100% agree that there is a
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sort of trickle down cascade effect that is largely incredibly positive. that's in some ways a take away. >> and it is our responsibility in the media to not be jerks. >> yeah. and let me just pick up -- i don't think those guys were being jerks. i actually think that was a total -- i want to make sure, this is not about those guys being jerks. i think they had an honest moment. >> and even those guys were kind of like, okay, it's caitlyn. >> i enjoyed that. thank you. that's all for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening. joining us this hour, bernie sanders is here for the interview tonight. he's going to be here with us live in just a moment. i'm very excited about that. we've got a big show tonight. the front-runner for the democratic presidential nomination, the woman who is such a front-runner in many people's eye webs she is the former secretary of state