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tv   Melissa Harris- Perry  MSNBC  June 14, 2015 7:00am-9:01am PDT

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this morning, my question what makes you black or white, man or woman? plus mckinney, texas and the fraught question of swimming pools and segregation. the young designer who broke the internet this week. but first, hillary clinton tells supporters why she's running. good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. hillary clinton, the by far front-runner democratic nomination for president held her first big rally yesterday in manhattan and sought to paint a picture what america under hillary clinton would look like. >> i believe that success isn't measured by how much the
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wealthiest americans have but by how many children climb out of poverty. how many start-ups and small businesses open and thrive. how many young people go to college without drowning in debt. how many people find a good job? how many families get ahead and stay ahead. >> let's be very clear. if the primaries were held today, clinton would have the democratic nomination in the bag. she leaves her closest competitor competitor, self-proclaimed senator bernie sanders by 34 points. she leads jeb bush by 10 points scott walker by 8, marco rubio and rand paul by four points apiece. but here's the thing about elections. for democrats, it's all about turnout. it's less about convincing people to vote for them over the other guy, and it is more about getting people excited enough to cast a vote over all.
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president clintobama won in 2008 and 2012 because young voters and latinos came out in big numbers. and in 2012 a high percentage of african-americans turned out to vote than white americans. 70% of black women voted that year. and in 2008 young people voted at their highest rate since 1992 when they helped put bill clinton in office. so did latino voters. candidate obama got people quite excited. now, if clinton is to be president, she's going to need those voters to get excited about her candidacy. she needs the obama coalition to become the hillary coalition. yesterday she let them know it hitting on issues she believes will get out the base things like immigration reform higher wages and incarceration reform and framing all these disparate things as one issue, a family issue. starting with equal pay for
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equal work. >> it's a family issue, just like raising the minimum wage is a family issue. expanding child care is a family issue. declining marriage rates is a family issue. the unequal rates of incarceration is a family issue. we should offer hard-working, law-abiding immigrant families a path to citizenship. and we should ban discrimination against lgbt americans and their families so they can live learn, marry and work just like everybody else. >> joining me now is one of my favorite panels ever christina jimenez, co-founder of united we dream. kay daul s dol lrks-- dollson for rick
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perry. man, am i excited to have you here. i feel like it's 2008. >> we've been having this conversation for a long time. >> what did you hear yesterday from candidate clinton? >> the very first thing i heard that's crazy when you think about it is the front-running democratic president trying to be the first woman ever to be president running by comparing herself to franklin roosevelt with no seriously threatening competition from the left? she is in some ways counting on these issues and not herself. it's funny, i think there was a lot of talk about how maybe in 2008 she should have used the symbolism of the first woman stuff more to build enthusiasm and maybe she learned that lesson and will do it here. she's obviously going to try. but she's also using the issues to get people out and she's using this conversation about a change in national mood, a receptiveness to this policy agenda that she's laying out in lengthy terms as she did yesterday. >> it's good to know this
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rorschach test of hillary clinton hasn't shifted at all, because i still see and hear something so different when i look and see what i saw yesterday. on the one hand i hear you on the fdr, i get that. but i also heard this. i want to play this little spot that sound veded very bill clinton to me about a smaller government. >> government isn't always going to have all the answers, but it has to be smarter, simpler, more efficient and a better partner. we need expertise and innovation from the private sector to help cut waste and streamline services. >> so in that moment what i heard was actually not sort of a fdr, i heard something that was a little closer to your side of the camera kayton. >> i agree. several things stuck out to me about that announcement. that crowd behind her looked more like a coke coalca-cola nascar
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crowd than it did a clinton crowd. i'm an operative, and visuals matter in these things. the work wasn't done there. what i came off with yesterday was this is the one candidate we can be. >> you can't go off path you have to stick with me for just a second. i want to take a look at the crowd. your point about being an operative here is a very important one. you and i were sitting on the set yesterday when we were first looking at it and christina, i have to say that for me the visual here regardless of what the reality was on the ground the visual is very very homogeneous racially. even if that isn't completely true of what the crowd is. your advance team is supposed to put the obama coalition behind you whether they're actually there or not. >> that's right. and what we see also is one, she had a dreamer, an immigrant young person who was part of the
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event and spoke. and i think that speaks to the power of the immigrant rights movement and how we have been able to shift the conversation and push these issues so much to see her and other candidates making that front and center of their campaigns, but she was also on the wrong side of this issue before. and now, you know for example, she came out against driver's licenses, she promoted the deportation of children that were fleeing violence from central america, and now you see her saying i'm in support of immigration reform. it's critical to make the point that hillary and other candidates now, they need to talk about immigration and they need to make their stands on immigration clear in order for them to be able to mobilize latinos and young voters. >> i want to listen to a moment i thought was interested. when it comes to the bio piece, but also this question of building a coalition, and i think there is a particular vulnerability in the obama
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coalition in part in the critiques you guys have leveled against the obama administration for its failure to live up to some of those particular demands. let's take a listen to hillary clinton talking about babysitting for farm workers as a kid. >> as a young girl i signed up at my methodist church to baby sit the children of mexican farm workers while their parents worked in the fields on the weekends. and later, as a law student, i advocated for congress to require better working and living conditions for farm workers whose children deserved better opportunities. >> as bad as the operatives may have been on putting the right people behind her, those sets of sentences are almost perfect. name checking the church saying that i worked for the farm workers rather than them for me and then as an adult, i also had this role. that right there was almost perfect rhetoric. i'm wondering if it also feels
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like an authentic question to these political questions. >> i think what's happening with clinton is that she is trying to maneuver to this new center in the democratic party, and what was striking about 2007 and 2008 is she took those policy positions thinking that the democratic center and the american center was where it was in 1996. in the past six and a half years, i think it's been demonstrated it clearly is not. i don't think she's flat-footed, because i think there are elements in her biography that allow her to build a personal connection to this new center but it still feels kind of awkward. >> you think the new center is to the left? >> i think the new center is to the left. i think republican polling is pretty conclusive on this. it's not left wing but certainly the public is much more receptive to immigration reform, much more receptive to this host of issues that conveniently are also relevant to the obama coalition. >> stick around because when we
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come back we're going to see more. still to come this morning, we're going to dive even deeper into the richard duval controversy, but after the break, we look at one of the ways clinton plans to clinch the millennial vote, and that's next. me to drive one. ♪ i didn't do it to be cool. i didn't do it to make a statement. i just liked it. ♪ lease an mkc for $329 a month plus competitive owners and lessees get $500 bonus cash, only at your lincoln dealer. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you.
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the thing that has motivated young people especially young people of color, to raise their voices, organize their communities and demand accountability from government. a criminal justice system that so often fails to be just. >> the unequal rates of incarceration is a family issue. helping more people with an
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addiction or a mental health problem get help is a family issue. >> joining me now is jamari burley, who is co-founder of a youth civic organization. i'm interested here in whether or not what you heard here there was no actual name check of black lives matter no actual name check in this context of other sort of social activism by young people but do you think you heard enough from hillary clinton to provide a kind of excitement for young voters. >> excitement is definitely not the word i would use. i would say that i didn't hear anything from hillary that i didn't expect. it was nothing moving. it was very generic for me. and also i feel like it was very watered down. yes, she has hundreds of speeches that she's going to do over the next few months but when you're thinking about coming out the gate and engaging people right away particularly young people who don't trust government as it is and also are civically engaged but not
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politically engaged in many ways, i don't think she did a good enough job. also i think a lot of her rhetoric wasn't conducive to the current environment we're still in. she didn't mention black lives matter, and that's one slogan, but when you think about criminal critical justice as a whole, you have to think about how policemen are treating people as a whole, but you have to also talk about people of color and marginalize communities. >> i have to say, this matters to me. we talked yesterday about the fact that rand paul actually talked specifically about the young man at rikers who was in incarcerated -- excuse me rand paul name-checked the person who was three years in rikers dies by his own hands of suicide after all those years. not that criminal justice isn't just but really engaging in a
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discussion about it. not that republicans can pull young voters or voters of color over but it almost seems hillary isn't exciting enough or compelling enough to show up. >> rand paul rick perry, a couple of them have had conversations about criminal justice. in texas they shut down three prisons. they're now not trying first offense drugs, they're putting them in jail. we can have any flavor of public you want the democrats are not going to have an in-depth conversation. hillary has the nomination. bernie sanders, is that a real contest? you let joe biden blink about becoming president, and that's what people are looking for. >> i just heard that republicans are the baskin robbins this year and we have roughly one
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soft serve of ikea at the end of the day. not that i think young people are going to head over to the republican party -- >> that's not happening. >> right, but i think about 2008 the conversations i was having with young people and what you say about hillary clinton is not what they were saying about obama. right or wrong in that assessment, it was just a very different feeling. >> i agree, but there is no excitement of any candidate on either of the sides right now, and i think it's also because young people are no longer delusional in thinking a president is going to get into office and fix things overnight. there is conversation on both sides, and that's cute but the question is where are politics going to become something tangible for young people. we're tired of saying justice reform needs to happen. we also say this is an american tragedy. the fact we have more prisoners than any other country in the world and we only account for 5% of the population. that is a problem.
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i think one of the big things that troubled me from hillary's speech yesterday was when she mentioned this idea of a pathway to citizenship for individuals who are law-abiding citizens. if we know anything about our criminal justice system we know it's not equal and it's not just, and a lot of people who get incarcerated are individuals who have been pushed through the pipeline of prison or the pipeline of deportation. so we have to be very comprehensive when we talk about these issues. >> so i feel like you're prepared to fight for jamira at this session. >> you can say you're for citizenship, but what's really under this immigration debate we're having. it's about people like me and people like my parents, which is the same across the board when you see communities of color, low-income communities of color. if we are really about to have a conversation for immigration reform citizenship is not
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enough. we want to hear how you really tackle this over criminalization of our communities which is happening, and deportation enforcement and racial profiling. >> isn't this, rebecca, the conversation a primary would give? >> i wanted her to be primaried from the very beginning. i wanted her to be primaried from hillenbrand. i think most democrats i know wanted that. i am surprised. one of my anxieties about not having a primary looking ahead of it before it started, was there was going to be nobody to push her to the left she was going to run to the center right at the start. that's one of the reasons i am surprised and gratified that she's selling herself as fdr. i didn't expect that. i think it tells us more as jamal says the way the center has moved left because hillary is someone who, throughout her career, has moved with the moves, and this unforced move
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has shown us where she is about where the country is. i agree. that primary in 2008 that every declared, boy, she should have quit it went on too strong. it was the best thing that happened. it brought candidates to the state, it brought grassroots organizing and voting building structure in every state. that was what was wonderful about that. we don't have it this time. >> i am so with you and i see that as what happened in '08, but here i guess, is part of what's shocking. if it had done it in a full structural infrastructure way, wouldn't we have candidates right now? i'm honestly a little stunned at how sickly the democratic party appears to currently be. now, again, this is not i think that i have a preference for the republican party in terms of policy but at least republicans want to be president. it is a little stunning to me
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that no democrat seems to seriously want to be president, jamal. >> it's a little bit of a -- not like chicken and the egg, but it's a little bit of a problem with hillary clinton being so dominant dominant. i think if hillary clinton mp were where she was in 2007 strengthening the party, people who didn't look presidential would look presidential. nobody looks presidential until they do and often they do when there is a space open. hillary clinton has kind of dominated the space for a democratic nominee for so long, that i think a lot of candidates who do have the qualifications and the resume of a presidential candidate have said it's not worth it. it's not worth aillienalienating everyone in the party. >> it's one thing to ask where the young voters are, but where are the young candidates right now? >> for both parties, there is not enough sustainability
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happening, meaning how are we training leaders to take over those roles 10 and 15 years down the line? the problem is young people are so sick of politics that they don't want to get involved with either party, but i think if we're going to think about how does policy how does democracy continue, we really have to develop and create avenues for young people to have a platform to get engaged but also to take leadership roles where they're actually making change in real ways. >> jamal burley is going to be back with us in our next hour. i want to say thank you to christina jimenez who has to come back because man, we have a lot to talk about. rebecca traister and jamal boulai will be back. plus the investigation into the shooting death of 12-year-old tamir rice. thanks to the tools and help at experian.com i know i have a 798 fico score.
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in new york yesterday, she set off on the road heading to a much more important state when it comes to the primaries. that's right. iowa. this morning the democratic candidate is holding a launch party at the iowa state fairgrounds. live in des moines is nbc news correspondent kristin walker. kristin, what are you expecting from hillary clinton that we didn't see yesterday in new york? >> hi melissa. good morning. clinton is going to build on a lot of the themes we heard yesterday as she builds on the theme of why she should be the next president. but today is very much going to be a call to action. clinton is going to try to get iowans on board with her grass dts grassroots effort to get elected. she wants them pounding the pavement for her campaign. they have commitments for more than 4,000 iowans to volunteer, but clinton wants to build on those numbers.
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again, she's going to really resonate some of the themes that we heard yesterday when she spoke in new york's roosevelt island when she invoked the legacy of fdr, the former president, to argue that she will also be a champion of the poor and working class americans. interestingly, melissa, clinton laid out an agenda that sounded a lot like president obama. she said she wants to close the income gap. she wants to fight for universal pre-k, for lgbt rights. now, if you look at the polls here in iowa, it shows that clinton has a very healthy lead over her other two challengers. however, she's been getting a pretty robust challenge from the left in bernie sanders. he has been campaigning hard here in iowa. he's drawing some pretty big crowds. yesterday he had an event that had more than 500 people and he's holding two more events today. of course o'malley is also
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campaigning. the campaign is heating up and we're expecting this rally to get under way shortly. we're not sure how many people it will draw could be two to three hundred people maybe more we'll have to see, but clinton really ramping it up here in iowa. >> thank you, kristin walker, in did des moines, iowa. i think it really has started now. >> indeed. yesterday afternoon, nearly seven months after his death, the cuyahoga county prosecutor's office released the investigative report on the shooting of 12-year-old tamir rice. the report compiles the reports of the cuyahoga county sheriff's department's investigation, shedding some new light on what happened last november when an officer shot the boy in a cleveland park. the 222-page report includes accounts from more than two dozen people including the rookie officer who shot tamir. witnesses and dispatchers.
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among the findings the person who called 911 reported seeing a guy pointing a gun. the caller noted that the person might be a juvenile and that the gun might be quote, a fake. but the report shows the dispatcher did not pass along those details to the two officers who responded to the call. that dispatcher refused to answer investigators' questions, according to the sheriff department's documents. the two officers involved also declined to be interviewed by investigators. police have said the officers ordered rice to show your hands three times before a shot was fired, but the report shows only one of the witnesses heard officers issue a warning to rice, but only after two shots had already been fired. the report also includes an interview with an fbi agent who heard about the shooting on a radio and went to the scene. he says he was the first person to perform any kind of first aid on tamir, who did not die until the next morning in the
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hospital. the boy who says he gave rice the pellet gun was also interviewed. he said he had removed the orange tip to make a repair. the report does not render any opinion on the legality of the officer's actions. the county prosecutor's office plans to present the case to a grand jury this year. i also want to update you on a story we first featured two weeks ago about an unlikely pairing. a small town conservative mayor and a civil rights activist joining together to fight the closures of rural hospitals in america. bob zelner is a freedom writer who has been fighting the good fight for decades. and the mayor is the mayor of north carolina. >> we have a situation in these hospitals. we have to do something about it. it's a horrific tragedy that's not getting talked about in our country. it's an american issue. when a hospital closes republicans, democrats,
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libertarians independents blacks asians latinos, all of us die needlessly. >> 283 hospitals are in danger of having their doors close for good this year. so the mayor and mr. zelner are taking to the open road walking 283 miles, one for each hospital at risk from bell haven to washington, d.c. the walk started on june 1st with the support of 11 states and on monday the group is expected to arrive in washington d.c. by 11:00 a.m. eastern for a rally on capitol hill. reverend william barber president of the local naacp, will be among those speaking on the importance of world health care and protecting rural hospitals. up next the world strategy in the battle of human rights. why the add covocacy may want the supreme court to get involved. up to 48-hour battery life and ballistic nylon back. that's your first "win." plus, it's only on verizon. the #1 network.
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the court decision has reached new depths. according to the rights division five states have either instituted waiting periods or increased the amount of time women are required to wait between the initial consultation and receiving a termination. it is part of the steady course of legislative action that in recent years has made abortion in some states, though still legal, very difficult to obtain. last week a federal appellate court upheld the strict texas law that requires all abortion clinics in the state to meet the same building equipment and staffing standards that hospitals must meet. before the law was passed there were 41 abortion clinics in texas. according to reproductive rights activists, full enforcement of the law could reduce the number of clinics in the country's second most populist state to less than a dozen. that has prompted them to consider a surprising tactic. as the "new york times" reports, abortion rights groups have been
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leary in recent years to taking their battles to the increasingly conservative supreme court, but this week faced with the full effect of what they call an onerous 2013 texas law, they say they have little choice but to press for strong action from the top. joining me here at the table, caroline frederick sensen, president of the american constitution society for law and policy and for the new republic. and joining me from richmond, virginia, the chief executive of whole women's health who runs several facilities in texas and was one of the providers that sued the state. emily, let's start with you. i'm somewhat stunned that anybody could look at this new law and see it as not creating a burden. what's your reaction? >> i couldn't agree with you more melissa. this is the most restrictive law around physical plants in the state, in the country. they gave us no waifrzvers, they gave us no variances and they gave us no grandfathering
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allowing existing clinics to stay open in the communities. you've seen us go down to eight ambulatory services only open in eight communities, leaving people 150 miles away from a safe community. >> we were talking about the closing of rural hospitals, so i'm sitting here thinking if rural hospitals are closed and then if we have the closing of these facilities the capacity of women to get reproductive care and to seek terminations, particularly for those living in rural areas and who do not have substantial economic means, it really makes it basically impossible. >> absolutely. it's a sham law. it's not based on safety and health for women. what it's done is leave a huge proportion of women in the state
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of texas behind. rural women, women without access to health care women who don't have means. we already have a broken infrastructure in texas when it comes to family planning medicate coverage and access to health care in general. and here it's just layering on top of that a disproportionate effect for almost a million people, as i said who are just left behind. and they try to pretend it has something to do with health and safety when, in fact, it's actually designed to make abortion inaccessible by any means necessary. >> caroline your work is obviously around the question of law, and i look at the chart over and over again, and the idea that between 2001 and 2010 you have 189 restrictions passed in states and then in the two years, from 2011 to 2013 you get 205 -- so more in those two years. typically we would think that's a response to an emergent situation in the world when you suddenly have more laws. why is this happening?
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>> i think at this point the right has decided they're going to test the limits as much as they can of what is left of roe versus wade. in the casey case restrictions said they cannot be a burden on women. where does that line fall? right now with the fifth circuit, it falls pretty much on the side it doesn't matter if you have access to abortion that's not undue, they're trying to dismantle piece by piece to get to the point where there's really no options left for women, rural women, women with very little means. if you're a wealthy woman, i guess you can fly to new york or somewhere else but for other women, there's really nothing left. >> rebecca part of what i'm wondering, is when we look at 2011 to 2013 we know what happened. state-based restrictions so despite having a democrat in the white house, despite having at that point a democratic senate the states we know in 2010 went
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to republicans and in the back side of that these huge restrictions. how do we make sure in 2016 that this issue is on, that no matter what happens at the presidential level, this issue is on the agenda? >> it does matter what happens at the presidential election because our shared turnout relies on the states right? there is not a huge amount of optimism. there is a very good chance that unless there is a massive democratic turnout, you'll see more republican state legislatesjs legislatures legislatures. >> there is more for the elderly side and it will really be one of the issues of contention. >> hillary made sure to mention that. >> let's go back a moment here
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amy, and that is to say, for the most part advocates of reproductive rights had not wanted to take this to this court. is this now the time that it has to go to court? >> i think so melissa. we haven't gotten any release from the fifth circuit. this is the fourth time they've denied us in the fifth circuit and we've gotten some relief from the supreme court. the supreme court has ruled in our favor saying it was emergent enough to put a block in place in order to protect the women and families in the state of texas and maintain access. so we are fairly optimistic that the supreme court is definitely going to look at this and is going to look at it carefully and hopefully provide relief to the communities that need us in the state. >> of course this is a court that also thinks it's perfectly fine to whisper in people's ears as they walk up and try to access. this court is top. thank you to all of you.
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leave in opt out, there are plenty of choices for women in the workplace. but for most women, it's not exactly a matter of choice, it's about struggling just to get by in a system that's often stacked against them. a new book with details that throughout our system reform they've consistently excluded including women workers. they have demanded that domestic workers be excluded from the landmark labor relations act. as of 2010 there were 2.5 million women in the domestic work industry in the united states. and currently california is the only state that safeguards domestic workers' right to unionize. when congress raised the minimum
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wage, many were left out, tipped workers, 73% who were women. we have waged a campaign to keep tipped workers from being paid as much as possible. the tip base wage today stands at $2.13 an hour making it impossible for mothers to work for a living and remains low on lawmaking agendas. almost one-fifth of young mothers are eligible for unpaid family leave, and paid family leave, that's a luxury that only 11% of workers can enjoy. throw in the cost of child care and it's still a fight for equality. the author of "under the bus" is here with me. talk about this patchwork of laws and the way it leaves women out. not that it necessarily matters, but is it purposeful or is it that it accidentally happened this way? >> it's both actually. you talked about the purposeful
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part which is our laws the set of workplace laws was really created in the '30s. there was a negotiation as there often is in a legislative process, and guess who usually loses? it's the vulnerable the weak the people without a place, and this was the workers in the south that were working in an agricultural economy that was still kind of the plantation of the 19th century. >> agricultural workers for the men, domestic workers for women, and those were left out of fdr -- >> there were a lot of women doing agricultural work as well women of the south were doing one or the other. if you look at the congressional record they pretty much tell you drebtlyirectly that they want those men and women, people of color, who they don't want included in raising the minimum wage. so we created a template for our
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laws that is carried forward and we keep amending those laws. the equal pay act is based on the standard pay act. and now we have a growing population of home care workers because we have a growing population of elderly people who rely on them for care. those home care workers are not required eligible for minimum wage until president obama fixes that problem. these women can work 80 hours a week without getting overtime and they might not even be making minimum wage. >> let's talk about how this feels on multiple levels. i taught a class that on the one hand domestic workers are not protected by many of these particular wage acts. on the other hand so many working moms relying on home health care workers, child care workers and cleaning services to take up the slack that they have
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because , and yet they're paying another kind of wage. it sounds like a challenge not only for women of poverty but also those in middle class that only the uber wealthy is left out of this problem. >> and you framed it as leaving in or opting out, i don't discount the value of women being more self-confident. for many women, though the opt out piece is completely irrelevant. you have to work and you have to take care of your kids. that's non-negotiable. how do we as a society deal with that? even middle class families child care costs as much as in-state college tuition. so to be able to afford that is an incredible burden. i think we need as a society, to recognize that guess what women work. and once that we recognize that we have to put in some systems that are going to allow them to do that. that's what i was looking into in "under the bus," how do we build some systems that work for all women. >> let me read this little part
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that i thought was such a useful indication of what this feels like. this is a home health care aide saying, i average 120 to 160 hours every two weeks, my husband loads trucks 40 hours a week. it takes me twice as long to earn what he does. that's because we home health care aides don't get time and a half in florida. there you go. >> what an incentive to work somebody a lot of hours. we hear about how americans work so much we work more than any other nation in the world. the fact is though these people, women particularly, they're not working one job, they're working two and three, because they're put in part-time jobs to prevent them from getting benefits and in order to make sure they never attain this sort of middle class lifestyle and then they have to make it up through another job. >> then they go home and work some more. thank you, karen fredericksen it's really worth reading this book "under the bus," how
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working women are being run over. still to come this morning, you got into the discussion about the head of the spokane naacp. we'll take it up again. but first, gay pride in the middle east? dude totino's blasted rolls. sweet. totino's blasted crust rolls... yeah. flavor at full blast when you do business everywhere, the challenges of keeping everyone working together
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june is pride month, a time when gay, lessbianlesbian, transgenders throughout the nation publicly joyously assert their values for greater legislative equality. why june? because it commemorates the june rebellion at the stonewall inn, when they refused to submit to the did he goegradation of the raid by the police. it includes a rally on the 26th a rally on the 28th and lots of
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parties in between. it's not just new york. this year there are june gay pride parades in augustageorgia indianapolis and even salt lake city. this is not just an american celebration. yesterday's pink dot rally in singapore drew record crowds. and friday in israel tel aviv's annual gay pride parade was focused on the transgender community and attracted tens of thousands of participants. >> just two weeks ago, there has been a survey published by the mines university in germany who checked 128 states by the question of where would it be best to be lgbt? and israel got number 7, which is a very good place to be at. >> but amid the revelry, the struggle continues. while we eagerly await the supreme court decision that could make marriage equality the law of the land this week in north carolina the state house voted to override a veto of
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governor pat mckory and give court officials in the state the right to refuse to perform same-sex marriages. less than a year after marriage equality came to the tarheel state,ie state, elected officials who fought for the same law are against same-sex marriages. while same-sex couples in north carolina could still marry, they would be forced to wait and they would be told their decision to wed is an affront to the local official. but gay pride month is a reminder that shame is deadly. suicide, violence and inequity are all the things that shove them into closets and deny their shames to full publication in the public sphere.
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not in june not ever. pride month affirms the right to be seen to be heard and to be proud, not ashamed. when we come back we're going back to the story of the naacp spokane president and some comments i made on yesterday's show. plus swimming pools and racial history in mckinney, texas. there is more at the top of the hour. is my art. when we cook for someone, we are sharing a little bit of our soul. to life! and when we eat, we begin with our eyes. just as the beauty of the food entices you to try it, the beauty of the website should entice you to explore it. i am eric ripert and this is my squarespace. super poligrip seals out more food particles. so your food won't get stuck and you can enjoy every single bite. eat loud, live loud, super poligrip.
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plus, it's only on verizon. the #1 network. there's your next "win." now for final "win." get $250 when you trade in any smartphone. and get 10 gigs of data for $80 a month and $15 per line. the win-win-win. a new way to save without settling. only on verizon. welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. yesterday during our race segment, i tackled the story of rachel dolezal, the president of the spokane naacp, who was out talking about her race. i was fascinated by her personal story, but i'm more interested in the reaction to dolezal that seem to deeply affect us in policing racial boundaries. i invited allison hobbs, author of "chosen exile" to join me in
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addressing the puzzling question of what is at stake when we address racial identity as territory. i want to delve into the question that was posed to dolezal, are you black, may be more difficult to answer than yes or no. if it races a social construct without biological basis, i said this. is it possible that she might actually be black? the best way that i know how to describe this and i want to be very careful here because i don't want to say that it is equivalent to the transgender experience, but there is a useful language in trans-assist which is to say some of us are born assist-gendered, some of us are born transgendered, but i want to say there is an assist black. there is a category of blackness
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that is about the achievement of blackness despite one's heritage. is that possible? while allison and i were exploring the question here on the show those of you out in media land had already come up with your own answer. responses on twitter came fast and furious with a nearly unanimous opinion that not only was the question inherently problematic but that the answer was a resounding, oh hell no. i want to pause here to say i used the word trans assist not to make a direct comparison to transgender identity but to explore the idea of a trans race identity. it is a group of people who, right now, are vulnerable to violence and discrimination and in he canequity inequity. today we're going to go deeper.
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as i want to bring back a guest from last week who has been outspoken in her disagreement with me. she was one of the activists who came forward for me in my days of trying to figure out how to be a better trans ally and she got my whole table together in what we were missing on transgender identity and sexuality. so here with me is director of we happy trans and ceo, sylvia rivera of the law project. also the director at the center for constitutional rights. also, hannah simpson. thank you all for being here. let's start with you, turner. >> thank you so much for having me back. >> of course. >> only a white person could get this much attention for being black. the difference really between what we see with rachel and what
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we see with trans folks is that rachel had to start pretending and trans folks have to stop pretending right? we see so often that trans folks come into themselves and we also talk about passing as myself. i'm not pretending to be anything, so i came with three tips for allies because i wanted to frame this in a way that was not focusing so much on rachel because we see so often, even with the martyrs in ferguson and folks getting involved in the black lives matter movement and folks taking a step back. the tip is to listen. what we saw last week when i was on with you and we talked about me getting it together you said great, that's good, that's what we need more of. when people are telling rachel
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doll czar dolezar the issues they're having wither, tip her, tip two, speak up. she's not allowing folks to do -- i'm sorry. she's not empowering people to speak up for themselves in terms of black folks. number three, don't give up. this is tricky and we all make mistakes, but the goal we need to reach together is more important than just this moment in time. >> so all of those to me are profoundly useful. and it is important to me to be able to pause in a moment where i feel like what was happening in part was that i was in a lot of head space. i also don't want to lose the thing -- i really am committed to trying to think about whether or not race needs to be quite as fixed as i feel like is getting policed in this moment. what became clear to me is that
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using the language of trans assist, as though it was just language and not connected to human experiences, is itself a kind of violence to do. on the other hand, i want some kind of language to talk about what if she's not pretending? and not rachel in particular. i want to be careful that it's not about this woman in particular, but what if in fact because i do think there is a similar language that has been used against transgender people that they are pretending to be their authentic self-expression. i'm just trying to figure out, is it possible to be born into a body that is not an authentic expression of your racial identity, and what words that might look like. >> hannah jamel? i'm the only person on this one. >> that was my head shake of not entirely sure how to approach the issue of language because i just think there is so much happening in this particular
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story. i'm actually very open to the idea that people who are not -- who don't have african ancestry or black parentage or grand parentage can feel a deepa deep affinity with black culture. people are sort of integrating themselves into the black community and effectively becoming black. where i sort of begin to pause, though is in the actual fact of living in a racial hierarchy is that your racial identity and not like your black cultural identity, but your racial identity is imposed. i couldn't walk into a room and say, i am actually a white man. >> so hannah this is part of -- and yet, aren't our gender identities imposed in a similar way? isn't there also a thing that has to happen not in one's lived experience internally but how
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the world sees -- so that idea of i can't walk into a room and say i'm a white man, it's also true that until there are some physical manifestations of identity for example for kaitlyn jenner bruce jenner couldn't walk into a room and say these things without also being rid kuldiculed and have that sense of expression. >> but i think it's okay to borrow the languages as long as we're not confounding the experiences. there is a lot of parallels you can make with anything. the idea of taking hormones i take estrogen to enhance myself and bruce jenner could take hormones. we don't call that trans human, we call that doping. it doesn't mean it's the same thing. i think what scares me is this #wrongskin, that people are
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trying to imply there is a wrong way to be in this society or any society, and i'm not downplaying the idea that people have different experiences and they are imposed upon in upbringing. i think there is two analogies. one going off kaitlyn jenner is she didn't -- caitlyn jenner is she did not have to add testosterone. she stood on her own as an olympian olympian. furthermore, this hash tag of wrong skin it's the people who keep saying and making jokes about it as a transgender person, i can take a few, but as a jewish woman, i also look at this and say to myself if you keep saying wrong skin, caitlyn jenner is not wrong skin. how would he feel?
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>> i do think rachel has the wrong skin and that black face is never good right? it seems like we go through this every year. but around halloween time we have to keep reminding folks that we're a culture and not a costume and that they can't continue to keep donning on. black face is rooted in histories of not only oppression and depression but also propaganda. it seems like everyone wants to be black until the police shows up. >> stop i want to stop you exactly there because we have to take a break, but that's what i want to delve into next. hannah simpson, thank you for being here. the cost of moving with racial identity and this talk of when you can take it off and put it back on. we'll be right back. it took tim morehouse years to master the perfect lunge.
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privilege has often been invoked to draw the line separating those who get to be in from those who must be kept out. not only the privilege that dolezal is showing, but also her way to take it off and maybe being white would be to her disadvantage. maybe. but showing black is not simple even for white people. we know that white people who publicly align themselves with the race for equality has paid costs. andrew goodman, schwarner were killed because of their struggle for justice. as emma hobbs demonstrates in her book leaving black people behind came with a cost.
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a more complete understanding of this practice requires a reckoning with the loss alienation and isolation that accompany and often outweighed its rewards. this week as she was stripped of her identity i think it outweighed the cost. co-found for emerging media, mark kozal. i'm still looking for the words of being racially identified and i'm having trouble finding the word. >> i'm still looking for the word too. but what i do know is there are a number of white people in this world who identify so deeply with the black struggle against racism or who grew up in a black world even though they're of european heritage that they feel differently than they think other white people feel. and at some levels that's what happened to her.
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i think she took it way beyond where other folks would take it but i think that's real. i think we don't realize that we are, for want of a better term, we are an afro-european society. we want to deal with the european aspect we don't want to deal with the rest of it. maybe that's bearing some of this out, which is not a bad thing. >> i don't know rachel so i can't get into her brain. i don't know where her space is. what's interesting to me is what her space for her story might open up for us thinking about these questions. >> i think trying to focus on what rachel feels might be missing the point a little bit. ij the reality is that systemic racism in our country means there is a particularly different lived experience for black folks and white folks in this country. we know hundreds of people are being stopped and frisked, black and brown people are being stopped in new york city on a daily basis. what else do we know? we know every 28 hours, an unarmed black person is killed
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by police. i think whether or not race is a social construct or whether or not rachel can sort of easily shed identities and just as easily put them back on i think is not so easy for people who are locked up for people who are facing deportation. not everyone has the stability, and i think focusing on systemic racism is how we'll get back to the core of this issue. >> let me push on that a little bit because i am the systems gal. i always want to talk about systemic racism. but part of what happened in the particular conversation we're having about systemic racism here even this idea of everybody wants to be black until the police officers show up is a presumption about the physical identification of blackness that can occur in a casual interaction. and that does feel different to me because the reality is there are many people who self-identify as black, who have close racial heritage who, when the police show up they don't know they're black. they just don't because race is a weird, funky thing. so homer plussy has to be on the
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train and say, excuse me i'm breaking the color line here. so is what we're talking about here, is the anger here about skin color and complexion and hair in a way that is about the vulnerability of brown people who are racially identifiable by systems of power and injustice in a way that is different than people who are lighter skinned full stop? because that's not race that's skin color, and that's different. >> i think the other issue here is about deception. i think she's being deceptive. >> all people who pass are deceptive, all people in closets are deceptive. that's what passing is though. >> this is really taking gender identification to a whole other level. when we really get down to it, donning blackface is not the best way to familiarize yourself with the black experience. >> i don't think it's blackface in this case though and i don't think it's blackface specifically because with blackface you're putting on
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airs you're trying to -- it's a caricature. >> that's what the pictures look like. >> but i don't think she was trying to caricature i think the most interesting thing about her story is her construction of a past of like oppression. i think she sort of knew that she seems -- that being white and loving black people to her wasn't enough. she had to somehow have this tangible connection. and i'm not sure that tangible connection is necessary to be black, but i think she herself felt that it was, and so that's how we get into this really weird place where -- i think she's sincere and i think she's not sincere, and i have no firm thoughts about this one way or the other. >> what you are saying now is all the feelings all the feelings. we're going to talk more about how this story just gives us all the feelings especially when it comes to hair. when we come back. unbelievable! toenail fungus? seriously? smash it with jublia!
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our condemnation or empathy for rachel dolezal may make us question identity but in the case of a white person passing for black is grounded purely on how we feel. that was the case for one of my producers this week who stretched her understanding of black identity enough who tried to attempt to learn what dolezal was doing, and then she realized she had black hair and she had all the feelings. >> type 1 is straight to minimal wave, and type 1, the hierarchy was at the pinnacle of good hair. and that was based on white supremecy. type 2 was straight type 3 was wavy type 4 was curly.
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also on this chart is what we would call nappiness. >> that all happened. the reaction shot between the two of you -- >> that was bad. >> that was bad. because that is pretending. that feels like lying and pretending. that is pretending, right? >> and the implications is if silence erases black women, luther said, won't you celebrate with me what i have shaped as a kind of life. what did i seek to be except myself? i made it up here on this bridge between starshine and clay my one hand holding tight and my other hand come celebrate with me that every day something has tried to kill me and has failed. rachel is not celebrating that. she's actually doing the opposite. >> so that moment is i think,
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for me also where -- and again, i want to always leave space for the experience could be authentic even if it's not rachel's experience being authentic. but that moment for me is precisely the thing -- when i read jen marks' book i said oh, she was just like me as a kid. she was also profoundly authentic about her journey, right? i think for me this video was a bit of a bridge too far, because it does feel like a putting on. and yet i still want to leave room for the possibility, maybe not for this particular individual person, but for the possibility of racial misassignment at birth in a way that eventually has to manifest in a broader set of definitions about what whiteness and blackness is. what i don't want to do is in our feelings about this woman get to a place where we are
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policing biological essential lives notions of race in ways that have ever been bad, ultimately, i think, for communities of color. >> i don't know if it's a question of birth, but it is a question of circumstance. it's how certain people grow up. it's what you perceive it's what you've experienced. if you grew up as a little boy like i did and you grew up in a world that was mostly black from the time you were 11 years old on, and you watched what was going on and your schoolmates were white instead of black, and you saw these things going on you go something is amiss here. people begin to identify in different ways because of their own cultural experiences. that's what happens. her thing is she lives in spokane. if she didn't live in spokane, she might, a, not have that reaction or she would have that reaction. if she lived in baltimore, if she lived in d.c. i think she could be a different person.
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>> i also don't want to miss the story. the story about growing up in a black world but being white, folks who grow up in a white world are doing things about their identity by saying don't define blackness in narrow ways. i'm more than that. >> and i think in terms of why are people having so many feelings about this moment i think this moment over the last eight months we've seen an incredible dialogue happening over black lives mattering. particularly it's been a dialogue about the leadership of black people. so i think it's particularly offensive, particularly hurtful in this moment that someone is asserting an identity that may not be theirs. at the same time i also think this is a different question than is there a role for allies? is there a role for white people? is there a role for non-black people in this movement? i think historically we've seen cross-racial alliances have been a part of social movement.
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but i think that's a very different question, and i think the emotional response we're seeing is people feel duped. they feel like thaiey've been lied to. >> and this black lives matter we're going to do the mckinney story, but i want to talk about this point of being duped and lied to with the naacp paid membership of spokane, we see from them exactly these feelings saying we think we've been duped and lied to and that is important, and those folks speaking in their space essentially matters in all of this with members signing a petition against her. thank you for coming and not just for being fabulous but for bringing us both literary and personal in this place. the rest of my panel is yelling at me to get out. the town named the number one best place to live in america. black lives matter when we come back. ♪♪ expected wait time: 55 minutes. your call is important to us.
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each year money magazine publishes a list it calls best
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places to live. it goes over median income and best prices for each city. it also provides other details for anyone considering moving before buying or renting. they look at the houses the town's aesthetic of a growing job market. in 2014 money magazine made mckinney, texas the number one best place to live. but the altercation between police and community made me wonder whether mckinney was the best place in the country. about 10:00 p.m. officers were called to respond to a disturbance at a pool party in a ranch community that had been posted on twitter. several officers were dispatched, but it focuses on officer casebolt who dove into the scene head first and proceeded to yell profanities at the teens, forcing many to sit or lie on the ground.
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casebolt then proceeds to shove a young black girl onto the ground by her neck before kneeling on her back to keep her from moving. officer casebolt also brandished his gun at a few teens who appeared to try to help the girl. the police department called casebolt's behavior inexcusable. casebolt later resigned. he had responded to two suicide calls before arriving at the pool. >> itthat day he allowed his emotions to get the better of him. eric regrets that his conduct portrayed him in his department in a negative light. he never intended to mistreat anyone but was only reacting to a situation and the challenges that it presented. he apologizes to all who are offended. >> wntszitnesses have given
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different accounts of what led up to the video, but tatiana rhodes who is black, said a white woman yelled racial slurs at her to told her to return to her section 8 home before another woman, quote, smacked her in her face. that was the fight officers were called in for. the term section 8 refers to the town's affordable housing, but housing is not just about where you live it also affects where you go to school where you socialize, and yes, where you swim. the project sued mckinney in violating the section 8 housing in the west side of town localizing it to the east side of town. currently in mckinney, all three of the city's public pools are on the east side of the city which is 49% white. the pools on the west side of the city are private pools, like the craig ranch north community pool. on the west side the residents are 86% white.
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that divide reflects the racial history of swimming pools in america. before 1950 for example, pools, a public amenity, were frequented as often as americans went to the movies. but black americans were barred from many public pools in the united states, and it was decided that all citizens -- and prooifrt pools private pools and white communities took off. the section 8 housing comment make questions about policing housing and racial integration. back with me now, jennifer burley, co-founder of why not, and pastor carper of the living hope church. >> it's rock. >> i apologize. could you please talk to me a little bit about this housing question? >> well, i mean mckinney has growing pains in regards to low-income housing just like
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this nation. we're not exempt of that challenge of making sure that we have adequate low-income housing for everyone. so we share in this burden on a nationwide level. >> stick with me one second pastor. i want to come out to you for a minute, because part of what we see in this moment this kind of con conflagration between this idea of poverty, segregation and race all connecting in this moment. >> exactly. the larger question as you mentioned, are how resources are divided and how it continues to be taken out of communities of color who, in many cases, need it the most. so when you have young people trying to get access to resources, you continue to have this battle with white residents who say you don't belong here you don't deserve this. or you are somehow only using
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section 8 because you can only afford it and not talking about the fact that there is actually a lot of white people who use social services. and i think the larger question too, is not just in mckinney, but across the country, is how services with being divided, making sure they get to the most marginalized communities, and making sure they're equal despite where a person lives or grows up. >> going back to this housing comment, i think it's something still sort of present in how americans think about housing and particularly white americans. maybe they can't articulate this exactly, but see middle classness as sort of a privilege of getting to be around blacks right? if you've earned middle classness -- >> you can buy your way into segregated space. >> uh-huh. so african-americans, really any people of color, they are viewed with suspicion as why are you here, but actual threats to sort
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of their middle class status. in the past there are vivid examples of this in sort of riots against new black homeowners in segregated chicago. these black homeowners may have had the same incomes or whatever as white homeowners but it's a physical threat to their status. >> we also know that this idea of 11:00 on sunday morning being the most segregated hour in america is also part of this story of our inability to know one another across these boundaries. >> well first of all, let me kind of make this suggestion, that we need to talk about two separate entities in regard to the swimming pool incident as well as a different entity of low-income housing. my thing is that just because this person made the statement
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of, well you know go back to your section 8 or whatever that's out of her stupidity and ignorance. but my point is that we kind of need to separate those two entities of having two different types of conversations in regards to section 8 housing versus this swimming pool incident. >> so talk to me about the swimming pool incident for a moment. >> okay. >> so in this moment do you see what happens with this officer as being primarily about the choices of this individual officer? part of what i'm trying to understand is the same thing porfi was telling us earlier, making sure it is a structure within history. >> of course there's been a history between the difference or the relationship of african-americans and whites. what i want to suggest and make
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clear is that this particular situation and a lot of the other instances is that 98% of the mckinney police department are professional people they're fair people and they work well within the community. we have this small percentage of a person who made some drastic mistakes in his profession. and so my thing is their justification about his emotions and his actions is in regards to he had taken two suicide incidents before he came is not a justified reason. because when you put that blue or dark uniform on that means you're supposed to be professional in every standard. the other thing is, is that he had opportunity not to take the call. if he felt that he was that
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unemotional or not, you know in the right mind he could have let dispatch know that you know, i'm not able to take this call send somebody out. so there is no justification about him being with or having been involved in two other incidents and suicide. that is not going to work. >> thank you to pastor rock carpenter in dallas texas. when we come back the impact of video and the trauma that remains. when you're not confident your company's
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eric garner tamir rice john crawford iii, walter scott. you know their names, u seen their stories, you have seen their experiences with police officers. and in many there was excessive force because in each case there was a published video. and each case resulted in the end of a black man's life. the video released last friday also showed an officer policing
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young black people in force and threat. but in this video, the officer is focusing on a young black girl. in this video, there is a sigh of relief that at least no one dies. the emotions of the video still leap off the screen there is still trauma. yeah no one died but members of the community and journalists and activists and many others around the country still experienced shock and disbelief. after seeing these videos what is it we've come to expect at the end of the tape? joining the panel, clinical psychologist johannes pickins. i wanted you to speak to at least no one died but what we expect in a moment like this is for someone of color to be dead. >> when you watch that video, your stomach automatically turns seeing a man physically handle a teenage girl in this way. but the other thing we understand about this is trauma
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is about not just feeling your life is threatened but seeing someone you love's life threatened. so the kids who are around the young lady who was on the ground as well potentially being traumatized by that experience. the other piece of this i think we sometimes don't look at is there were other officers there who were potentially using the situation to actually deal with the situation in a measured way. and when we look at the situation of how the young lady was treated during that time what we hope for eventually is for the officers to use measured responses. people spoke about mr. casebolt using the situation before as an excuse around having to take care of suicide-based events. what we understand about when someone is exposed to trauma and when they experience it that their bodies reacts in a way to automatically respond to the situation. in that way they rely on whatever automatic beliefs they
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have, and sometimes someone's beliefs can be skewed in a different way. we call these implicit biases. just because of casebolt's previous experience and automatically having to respond, we see implicit bias at play and at the same time we see other officers who are not having this reaction. >> this is interesting, because i love this idea of what you've done here, you've given us a clinically psychological moment that happened in this officer, being literally hipdyped up, and having this experience and reacting in a way that may have been caused by other experiences. they may have not helped but they also don't intervene. if i saw someone at my workplace who was plaguerising, i would stop them i would tell somebody because that's against our rules and behavior. this one acts as though oh no
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it was fine. >> it's not just that people feel targeted it's that they are targeted. when we look at this video, which is a traumatic experience i think, for anybody to watch, but i think when we look at this video, i couldn't help but think, what about these other officers? we sort of focus on the individual actions of an officer like officer casebolt but the reality is this is a systemic problem. when you have 11 other officers on the scene, none of them who intervene, none of them stop an officer from mistreating a 14-year-old girl. that's what i think creates the sense of hopelessness the sense of trauma in a generation of young people. >> should we be watching the video? >> there is always the question of are we watching this for good or are we targeting the person over and over again? >> the role of systemic racism
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and what it plays here the role of police they don't intervene on their own. it's okay to put a black person on the ground and handcuff them and do whatever you want. that is acceptable behavior. that is what we have to challenge. all those officers have to be challenged. it's not that mckinney is an almost all white police force. if it was 25% black, it would still occur. that cannot be allowed to continue. we have to have change in our police. mckinney is one of the most hyped-up cities. >> and yet still manage to get called the best place to live. i think at a minimum, that should not be true. thank you, isaiah pickins. really, i appreciate this connection. thank you to jamir burley porvi
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she is known as the dress layer. an 18-year-old artist whose prom dress went viral after she posted it on instagram earlier this month. as you can see, it is stunning. it is also a dress that is deeply perm. woven into the thread of the story about identity. it is one of her instagram posts. she wrote in a caption, you have to understand who you are. because if you leave that space open, you leave your identity in the hands of society. she wasn't leaving her identity or even her style to anyone but herself. she sketched and designed her
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own prom dress, which was then sewn by a local seamstress. on twitter she posted a photo of herself in the dress. thank god stereotypes are just opinions. she wore her dress on prom night. and she was, of course crowned queen. joining me now, kaema mcintyre. i am so thrilled to have you here. what inspired this particular design? >> my inspiration definitely comes from the women before me. and myself as well. i wanted to tap into my own heritage. as you said before my identity. i wanted the dress to spell my aura, from glance to understand i'm proud of who i am. >> i love that. to understand that you're proud about who you are. this language of as you said for always being called ugly. when you write that in the
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instagram post one of my producers said who ever called this young woman ugly. ugly and angry is the language used against black women. >> i know. there were blogs that said i was bullied. but really what i was talking about is black women. we can use that as black women being bullied, you know. but it was definitely about being categorized as ugly or you know angry. >> i also wanted to draw out your idea about fashion and social justice. you know i was looking back at some of the women who came before as you say. elizabeth ekford was a teenager going to little rock high school in a skirt she herself had designed and sewn. a woman of extraordinary style. but also integrating the university of alabama. i wonder if there's something there with the way black women embody style as well as being civil rights lawyers.
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>> yeah. there's definitely like the biggest part of me i wanted that to come across. like i said before from first glance, you know. >> does your dress say black lives matter? >> absolutely. yes. >> it is in that way. let me ask you this where can we see more of your work? >> my website, you can go to etsy.com and you can type in kyesmind. i have a lot of my artwork, i'll be posting new art. and my instagram as well. i give updates a lot on instagram. >> you've got to prom. you graduated. what next? >> i'm going to parsons. >> hopefully we'll be able to buy your designs for ourselves. >> i hope so. i'm working really hard. >> it's an extraordinary dress and it's a great story. >> thank you. >> that's our show for today. thanks to you at home for watching. i'll see you next saturday 10:00
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happening right now. nine days and no sign of two convicted killers on the run, as we gain new insights into the prison worker who allegedly helped them pull off that brazen escape. the 2016 presidential race heating up with hillary clinton in iowa this hour. one day after she delivered her first major campaign speech. tomorrow, jeb bush officially entering the ring. surprising new details in the shooting death of jamir rice. the officer who shot him. very good sunday to you. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." i'm in for alex on this day. we're going to start this hour with

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