tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC June 23, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
universal declaration of human rights. as the u.s. treasury moves to recognize an american woman, el noor roosevelt, a recognized partner in the most successful presidency of modern time would be the perfect citizen to honor. and that's hard ball for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> take it down. take it down. take it down. >> the take down the flag movement begins to take hold across the south as a kind of virtual appomattox halts sales of confederate flags from amazon to walmart. tonight, the backlash to the confederate backlash online. the man formerly known as the southern avenger is repenting for his confederate mask and he joins me live. and what happens after the flags come down? we will have some breaking news on that. plus, hillary clinton's strongest remarks yet on the charleston massacre. >> an act of racist terrorism.
and why the donald trump surge in new hampshire is infuriating karl rove. >> how should republicans handle donald trump? >> ignore him. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york i'm chris hayes. the momentum against the confederate flag has spread beyond the state of south carolina to maybing states and cities, stores and cooperations online and nationwide. in the wake of the church massacre in charleston by a white supremacist who'm graced the flag, the shift in attitudes about public display of the flag has proceeded at a head snapping pace with protesters demanding the confederate flag be removed from the capital grounds. the south carolina house voted by an overwhelming margin to allow debate on the issue. that came less than 24 hours after governor nikki haley and a bipartisan group of lawmakers called for the flag to be taken down prompting a handful of
republican presidential hopefuls to jump on the bandwagon announcing their support. now a number of other southern states are rethinking the official prominence they've given to symbols of the confederacy. last night mississippi's republican house speaker announced he supports changing his state's flag, the only one in the country that still displays the battle flag of the confederacy as a christian he said, in a starjts i believe our state's flag has become a point of offense that needs to be removed. in a 2001 referendum mississippi citizens voted by an almost 2-1 margin to keep the current design. in virginia democratic governor terry mcauliffe unveiled plans to phase out license plates featuring the confederate flag. less than a week after the supreme court ruled texas has a right to reject a similar design from a so-called confederate heritage group in tennessee. the governor, a republican said he also supports the discontinuation of confederate license plates. he endorsed a proposal to remove a bust of nathan bedford forest the confederate general who helped found the ku klux dplan
the klan from the state capital. last night, walmart, largest retailer in the country, announced it will remove all items that promote the confederate flag from its shelves. this was apparently an unprompted move now a number of other outlet suits are following suit, from big box stores like sears and walmart and smaller businesses like etsy ebay and valley forge flag. which means if you're in the market for an authentic confederate soldier uniform like this one from target, you're probably out of luck. you can't even be by a used version on ebay or a hand crafted one from a seller on etsy. like wise, this redneck firefighter firefighter t-shirt, this confederate beer pong table from amazon or this dixie doll baby one zi from ebay. there's still demand however. sales of confederate flag merchandise skyrocketed 3,000% in the last few days on amazon.com, before the company took the listings down.
in just a few day's time opinion in this decades-long debate have shifted massively. one of the republican politicians who initially in the wake of the charleston massacre defended the flag in south carolina was lindsey graham another candidate for president. yesterday, however, graham was one of those individuals who changed his mind. moments ago in the capital, senator graham told kelly o'donnell of nbc news what made him change his mind and how he hopes fellow republicans come around to his way of thinking. >> i am cautiously optimistic that people in the statehouse will do the right thing, which is to remove the flag from statehouse grounds. if we fail in this endeavor it will haunt south carolina for decades and i think people understand the gravity of the moment. moment. >> reporter: how do you explain your own shift from saying it must come down? >> this compromise was to move it from the dome of the capital by the confederate war memorial and build an african-american monument as a compromise. that stood for 15 years. the truth of the matter if it had not been for this shooting,
that flag would still be flying. so don't let anybody tell you otherwise. the people of charleston the ame church mother emanuel church, how do you go back in that church and say "in spite of your desires you'll leave the flag flying when you represented our state far better than anyone could hope the do." it's retoox this shooting. if it weren't, nobody would be talking about this. >> reporter: do you think the mississippi flag should be changed? because it also contains the confederate battle flag emblem? >> if i were in mississippi, i would take the opportunity to get this behind us. there's the discussion, what is enough. well, the symbol of this flag has become a symbol of murder racism and hatred and the african-american community in south carolina has been basically saying we can do better and the answer is yes, you're right. people in mississippi have to decide what's best for mississippi but if i were in mississippi i'd vote to change the flagment i think it's a
better future. >> reporter: is this a test for the republicanuse democrats will vote to remove the flag. the only no votes will probably come from our party and everybody who says that flag means something to me is not a racist, but in the hands of this young man it was the ultimate symbol of racism. in the hands of this young man, it was a symbol that no one can justify or explain. and what drives my thinking is that the families of the victims were so loving so caring, so forgiving, i cannot in good conscience tell them they're wrong to ask me and others to take this flag down is. because they're right to do so. >> are you hearing anger from those who believe removing the flag dishonors that history that was a part of the south cull secure in. >> absolutely. >> what are you hearing from people snrchgts people? >> i'm hearing a lot from people "the flag didn't kill anybody, i flag this flag from my house. this is a symbol he misused, the
flag is not the reason, the flag is just a symbol." and i look at the symbol and i have it in my house and i haven't heard anybody -- i understand that but here's what i would say to those folks. if you care about your state, if you care about the future of our state and those who follow us the young men and women who grow up in south carolina and want to pursue their dreams black, white, and everything in between, this is a roadblock to their dreams. you can think what you like about the flag you can think what you like about me but i am not going to be part of stopping the progress of my state. again, none of this would have happened without this shooting snouchlt the time to stand up and be counting and we are. i hope everybody who thinks about voting no if you're thinking about keeping the flag up now, please understand what that means to us as a state. it means that our kids for years to come are going to have to live with your decision and it will not be pretty. joining me now, congressman steve cohen, democrat from tennessee. congressman, your governor
today, governor haslem saying he wants to remove option of having a confederate battle flag on license plates in tennessee. what's your retoox that? >> i think it's the right thing to do. i was the leader on the license plates issues to customize them for the arts and they had a confederate flag issue come up and that's when it passed and i was one of the two people to vote against it. it went through 28-2 in the state senate. argued against it on the floor because it was insensitive to african-americans. it's been insensitive and it's been there for 3013-years.13 years. i commend him also for suggesting that nathan bedford forest's bust which is right before you go in the state help technical assistance should be removed. there's there and there's no reed for it to be there. we have a nathan bedford forest state park that's a large park with signs on the highway directing you to it and the governor should be consistent and also have the name of that park changed as well.
>> you're a southern progressive. you -- fourth generation from memphis, if i'm not mistaken. you're one of the few white members of congress who represent a majority black constituency. >> the only member of congress. >> the only one. a week ago, ten days ago, if i had come to you and said this would happen this kind of incredible momentum would you have believed it? >> no. sometimes it takes tragedy and crisis to bring people to their senses. there's been a lot of change going on in the country and generally things happen for the best. there's still some things that are slow to happen but two of the issues that resonate with me and looking back to 2002 when i was a senator, one was gay marriage and i was the only senator to vote against the gay marriage proposition in tennessee and gay marriage has now become fairly accepted 57% in the last poll. and then drug reform marijuana particularly, back when i was a
senator and i was making arguments in the late 1990s and it was pretty -- not so popular maybe 25%, 30%, now it a's majority. so the country gets better it gets more progressive and a lot of it is younger people not being born with and being exposed to prejudices and thoughts that aren't scientific or aren't tolerant and they're starting to voice their opinions and part nate the political process and making it better all over the country. >> where does this go next congressman? >> hopefully it goes to substantive policy. the problem is it's wonderful if we take the flag down and it's wonderful if we remove the bust and change the name of the park. but we need voting rights bill. we need the voting rights act renewed. we need to have changes in the criminal justice system. we need reforms with police relations with minorities in the inner cities. we need opportunities for people to get jobs with job training and we need people to forget about being against affordable care act. a lot of the reason they're against it is because it's president obama who's african-american and because it helps a lot of people that are
poor and lower income and so in a lot of places that happens to be african-american people. we need to understand that everybody has a right to health care that as president kennedy said we're all on the same planet, we breathe the same air and we have the same desire for our children. we're all the same and we need to understand that. >> congressman steven cohen, always a pleasure thank you. we have some breaking news tonight on the voting rights act that we will get to later in the show. almost as soon as the backlash against the confederate flag gained momentum, the backlash to the backlash got under way and much of it from predictable sources. rush limbaugh railed that removing the flag from the capital is about destroying the south. bill o'reilly says it represents the bravery of confederates who fought in the "self" war while neoconservative bill crystal sal tweeted "the left's 21st century agenda expunging every trace of respect, recognition or acknowledgment of americans who fought for the confederate." on the ground in communities
around the country, passions run high. >> it's a war memorial to honor 25,000 men -- a quarter of the men in south carolina died to protect this state. they stole it! they dishonored that flag! that flag never had anything to do about slavery! >> i'm joined by jack hunter, editor of rare politics, former conservative radio personality that went by the name the southern avenger and was fired by rand paul once his past came to light. that's him in the mask. jack, good to have you on how are you doing? >> good to be with you, chris. >> you wrote this piece in the daily beast, a kind of recantation, if you will. why you think it's time to take the flag down and leave the flag behind. take me through your thinking on this. >> well, i was a staunch supporter. i wore a confederate flag on my
face, for pete's sake i said it was about state's rights. i said it was about heritage. i think i said it was about self-determination. basically most of the arguments you're hearing coming out of charleston charleston, south carolina and across the south and country in defense of that flag are some of the idiot i canic statements that it had nothing do with savory. it -- slavery. as the years went on and i changed my mind and politics and thinking, a lot of my outlook, that's a distorted way to view that symbol. that symbol does mean something important to some white southerners, though i would say that number is diminishing. but you cannot talk about that flag in a positive way without ignoring the overwhelmingly negative attitude that most americans and particularly black americans have toward it and for good reason. they have historical and political reasons to view the confederate flag as a symbol of racial terrorism which it was for black americans. if you look at slavery, at the
kkk, if you look at jim crow, if you look at a deranged white man walking into a church in my hometown of south carolina and murdering nine people for the color of their skin and it's associated with that flag that's what they see, you can't ignore that. >> i'm amazed that you've come around the way you have. it gives me a lot of hope, actually. i'm serious because we don't all change our minds a lot in politics. it's easy to get dug in and i can almost understand -- there's almost some part of me that can understand this feeling of being kind of besieged and persecuted and wanting to hold on to this thing almost as a kind of screw you to the people that would take it from you. and you can see that psychology you can even see its appeal in this -- how did you work your way out of that? >> because that's what i think is wrong with our politics. what sort of changed my mind and my outlook, i was so concentrated and focused on being right. i'm right about this i'm right about that i'm right about the
flag and not about being decent. i'm sorry, in a state like south carolina where 30% of the population is african-american and i'm running warned a confederate flag mask and being hyperbolic sometimes or often and saying all these things it's something -- i'm ashamed to look at that picture of me today wearing that mask. it's horrible. what's wrong with -- we in our politics, i don't care if you're coming from the right -- and i think the right and left do this -- of having empathy. of considering yourself from the other person's position first. there's nothing wrong with that. that's not weak, that's not selling out to the left oar selling out the the right, that's just being a decent human being. we can do that across the political spectrum and we would be a much better society. i'd also say, chris, coming from a conservative perspective, the debate we see with the confederate flag right now in south carolina to me reminds me -- it's not a microcosm but an example of the debates that upset me on my side of the ideological spectrum and the
daily beast piece i noted a week before the tragic massacre in charleston i was really angry at my fellow conservatives who thought it was completely appropriate and even praiseworthy for an adult white develop throw a 14-year-old black girl in a beak keenikini and stick his knee in her back. that bothered me. i couldn't figure out why. we saw same situation with the baltimore riots and the freddie gray where a lot of people on the right automatically took the side of the police and dismissed the protesters' complaints and the things -- police brutality and things they were worried about. we saw it in ferguson we saw it with eric garner in new york city. this is not just racial issues you can talk about gay marriage and a number of other things where we don't do enough of trying to once other people are coming from and trying to be good human beings before we exert our political points. >> if anyone's watching this out there who's a republican consultant, you should hire jack hunter to talk to your candidates. jack hunter a great pleasure, thank you very much for coming
on. >> thank you chris. what we really need to know about the confederate flag has as much to do with the 1960s as the civil war. we'll explain next. plus good numbers for hillary clinton whose campaign continues to surprise observers with how it's trying to win the white house. and hillary clinton isn't the only one getting good polling numbers. there's trump, yes, donald trump. stay with us. ♪ every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪
. it is improbably day 18 now in the manhunt for two escaped convicts in upstate new york. as the search for david sweat and richard matt goes on new details have emerged. >> reporter: sources close to the investigation tell nbc news convicts were caught by surprise in a remote hunting cabin, leaving food and even underwear behind. today, more detail about their escape. the d.a. says prison worker joyce mitchell said she smuggled the convicts tools hidden in ground beef. >> in the meantime joyce mitchell's husband lyle mitchell spoke for the first time with matt lauer about the allegations
against his wife. >> at that point, lyle, you had no reason to ask your wife "do you know anything about this escape"? >> no no. nope. and in the next morning she said the state police called. i said for what? they wanted to know something about a packpackage. i said what are you talking about? she said i need talk to the troopers and the investigator came out and said mr. mitchell your wife has more involved's letting on. what? that's when he said she bblades, a chisel. oh my god. we'll be right back. let'em pick guitars and drive them old trucks ♪ boys? ♪ mamas, don't let your babies...♪ stop less. go more. the passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. hurry in and you can get 0% apr plus a one-thousand dollar volkswagen credit bonus on 2015 passat tdi clean diesel models.
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there's a facebook post that went viral getting more than 50,000 shares that features an image of the confederate flag with the words got this flag offends you, you need a history lesson." it's true they need a lesson but it's not less son by the author of that facebook post. when the confederate states seceded, they didn't adopt the flag we associate with the confederacy. the first official flag of the confederacy was this which resembled the american flag and had stars added as states left the union. this flag we know today was initially the battle flag of one of the armies of the confederacy, the army of northern virginia commanded, of course, by robert e. lee. the battle flag was incorporated in later versions of the official confederate flag, including this one with the battle flag and a sea of white this was literally dubbed "the white man's flag" by its creator. think about that for a second. after the war ended in 1865, the confederate flags were mostly put away though they popped up at memorials and sporting events. the battle flag was incorporated into the mississippi state flag in 1849 as reconstruction was
coming to a close. for the most part, the flag itself was not prominently in use as a political symbol until 1948, more than 80 years after the war ended when it resurfaced for a very specific reason. in opposition to harry truman's efforts to provide equality for african-americans, which included desegregation of the armed forces. at the 1948 democratic national convention, a coalition of segregationists, southern democrats known as the dixiecrat, rebelled against truman and embraced the confederate battle flag as their emblem of revolt. eventually holding their own convention where the battle flag served as their segregationist symbol and where south carolina governor strom thurmond was nominated for the presidency.
the confederate battle flag was quickly embraced by the ku klux klan and other racists ors and became a primary symbol of opposition to the civil rights movement. in 1956 two years after "brown v. board of education" decision to desegregate schools, that's when georgia incorporated the confederate battle flag into its state flag where it remained until 2001. it was five years later in 1961 as those battles raged that south carolina hoisted the battle flag above its state capital. the notion that the confederate ba southern history and pride somehow divorced from racism is directly contradicted by its appropriation as the primary symbol of opposition to the civil rights movement. to claim otherwise is to ignore history, not to celebrate it. joining me he mississippi state conference naacp who in 1991 was a there the naacp lawsuit against mississippi over its state flag. now, mr. johnson, mississippi is
the lone flag that actually has that battle flag embedded in it. how did it get? >> well it was a -- an'm kblem of resistance you have the civil war which only last 10 years in mississippi and you what v what was called the redemption period in 1866. and in 1884, the state adopted a flag as one of the precursors of adopting a constitutio segregation in the state of mississippi. the question of whether or not the em a part of the confederacy or notnow for a fact that the flag was used as a flag of terrorism and that flag of terrorism we can trace back throughout the '50s and the '60s as synonymous to a cross burning that the klan would use it was seen by whites in the south as a symbol of
pride and white supremacy but on the other side seen by african-americans in mississippi and the south as a signal of terrorism and suppression. >> this is what's key to she that the flag bears most of its sort of semantic weight at moments of the most intense kind of polarization often violence right? so in the period as reconstruction ends and the "redeemers" the white supremacists take back the reins of government, that's when the flag gets incorporated in the state flag. again in this period of tremendous violence and conflict around the civil rights movement that's again when it achieves a prominence. it's achieving peak prominence in moments of racial conflict when there's a challenge to kind of white supremacist order. >> so for those who try to hold this up as a symbol of heritage hate should not be a part of anyone's heritage and if you choose to do so under the first amendment, you have the right to in your private venue. but it should not be a symbol of
any official government alal institution. in the state of mississippi in 1991 aaron henry who was then the state president led a group of individuals to file a lawsuit against the state of mississippi because the emblem embedded in our state flag was and still is a symbol of hatred. >> can you explain to me why? it seems 25r7bd ss 2002,0001 this issue boiled up again. you had in the south carolina and georgia and mississippi. what was it about that period. why was that a period of the last time this was kind the backdrop of the 1991 we saw the largest change of african-americans being elected to office as a result of the the southern jurisdictions substantive policy issues. but it was also this time that raising a question of what the images and symbols that represent governmental bodies that citizens of and wlornt those images and similar bombs should continue to represent the states
and the municipalities across the south. >> derek johnson, mississippi, thank you. beyond the flag, what if growing national momentum on racial justice were used to replace a section of the voting rights law the supreme court killed? perhaps, that's ahead. the man who may make it to the fox news debate stage after all, donald trump. jb hick hillary clinton is going where no candidate may have gone before, next. ologic this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me reach for more. doctors have been prescribing humira for more than 10 years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contrubutes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers including lymphoma have happened, as have blood liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment get tested for tb.
that night, word of the killings struck like a blow to the soul. how do we make sense of such an evil act? an act of racist terrorism perpetrated in a house of god. >> democrat i can presidentic front-runner hillary clinton spoke about last week's racially motivated attack at emanuel ame church in charleston. she said the flag should not be displayed anywhere and called for gun safety measures. she then took part in a round table discussion including reverend tracy blackman a member of the ferguson commission, a task force put together by missouri's governor following the unrest of michael brown's death. if you're keeping track, hunk has talked about reforming the criminal system, said she would go further than on on immigration, called for an extension of voter rights in
texas southern university in houston, told conference of mayor this is past weekend america's struggle with race is far from over and today at a sitdown community meeting at a predominantly black church not too far from where michael brown was shot she called last week's shooting in charleston "a racist act of terrorism." she appears to be running for president with a strategy of maintaining and building on the obama coalition which has failed to come out in two elections of the last four, the ones in which obama was not on the ballot. the brand new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll showing clinton with a big lead over her democratic competitor appears her approach is working. joining us now, reverend tracey blackman pastor of christ the king church in missouri. reverend, how did this event come about. did your people reach out to the clinton campaign? did they reach out to you? >> the clinton campaign reached out to us.
i understand that she was planning a visit to st. louis anyway and decided in light of what happened in charleston and especially in light of the last year here in the ferguson area that she wanted to make a showing at a church. she wanted it to be a gathering where where she could listen as well as be heard and so they reached out the me and asked that they hold that here. >> there was a kind of panel discussion that that happened in your church and there's been a few of these vents that secretary of state clinton has taken part of and i can never tell if anything real can be communicated in these settings or whether this is staged performance. what was your sense from participating in one of these? >> well actually, the clinton campaign gave me full rein on developing the format and
developing the people that would be on the platform and my intention today was to show that ferguson has often times in the media been played as a place that is helpless and a place that is hopeless and i was hopeful that this opportunity to do a panel discussion show what we are doing in the community, show how we are working was l show a different image of ferguson, show a different image of this region of st. louis, that we are not helpless we are not hopeless we actually have solutions, we just need some structural changes to help support the things we're doing and i think that secretary clinton was amazed and a aastounded what the she heard today. she said several times both in the panel and afterwards that much of the information and much of the innovation was new to her. she also talked to the panelist about some connections in other
places she had made and said "i want to build on what you're doing here." so for me that was an end goal and i think we accomplished that very well. >> one of the movement activists around black lives matter can tweeted after the speech she said "so hillary clinton's speech ended, i heard a lot of things and nothing directly about black folk. coded language won't cut it." what's your response? do you think she was too careful about addressing race and blackness head on? >> i'm sorry, i could not hear your question. >> you know what actually, if you're having trouble hearing i'm not going to repeat it because we'll just go through it again. but there were some who thought that as secretary of state clinton stopped short of sort of naming blackness and talking about race directly. >> i think that schick ahillary clinton
is a politician. i think she's a polished politician and i think most of the people we will see in this presidential run are politicians. my goal today was to make sure she heard our message, that we be clear what our expectations are of anybody that's running for the chief office in the united states and that we aren't going anywhere. >> reverend traci black mono thank you. coming up, the big late breaking news about voting rights. next, in a new poll of new hampshire voters donald trump is performing surprisingly well probably the the chagrin of karl rove.
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can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? let me ask you a couple of questions. how should republicans handle donald trump? >> ignore him. look, he is completely off the base. i mean, you know i'm going to negotiate with isis i have a secret plan to deal with isis
but i can't tell you about it because of my enemies. as president i have the unilateral authority to levy a 35% tax on any company that opens plants abroad? this guy is not a serious candidate. as of friday 59 o'clock he had yet to final the one page declaration of his candidacy with the fec. >> well well well. you'll never guess who found his way to the old fec filing station. donald trump well his campaign, released this one-page form stating the reality tv star is seeking a presidential run as a republican candidate. now, the form was stamped by the federal election commission yesterday afternoon. trump's next hurdle is submitting disclosures detailing his finances. now he can ask for up to two 45-day extensions. in fact, rand paul did that. that would perhaps offer trump a way to get on that debate stage without ever declaring his net worth. while karl rove may not consider trump a serious candidate, some gop primary voters in new
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huge news out of capitol hill on civil rights and it has nothing to do with the confederate flag, but it's about the substance of what that flag stood for -- denying equal rights to black citizens in the south. senate and house democrats will introduce a bill that would bring back to life the part of the voting rights act the supreme court killed two years ago. the nation's ari berman breaking the news that senator lahey will
introduce legislation co-sponsored by john lewis to clear voting changes with the federal government. the move comes on the heels of the charleston massacre and the fierce battle over the confederate flag events that have put the south's deep and long history of discrimination towards african-americans in the spotlight. still, many have argued that legacy is all but gone. you know 20, years back, in a 1995 interview with the neoconservative magazine uncovered by buzzfeed mississippi senator thad cochran, still mississippi senator to this day, argued his state should be freed from the voting rights act saying "there are probably as many or more instances of discrimination against persons in voting situations in other parts of the country as there are in the deep south. we've elected more african-americans in my state than any state in the union." almost 20 years later, chief justice john roberts made almost an identical argument when he struck down the heart of the voting rights act. so in two decades, arguments that the south was being unfairly singled out went from a
neoconfederate magazine that refers to the civil war as the "late unpleasantness" to the official traditional of the highest court in the land. joining me now ari berman author of the forthcoming back" give us the ballot, the modern struggle voting rights in america." this is big news. basically the court said basically we don't think you have any co-hereabout rationale for what does and doesn't get subjected to this extra scrutiny so we throw it out, come up with something better. so what are democrats going to introduce? >> congress has done that. they've come up with something better. number one, they forced the states with a recent history of voting discrimination to approve voting changes with the federal government, so that includes 13 states, states we know of when it comes to voting discrimination, places like texas and north carolina and also states we don't often think about like new york and california where there's a more recent history of discrimination against ethnic groups. the second thing the bill does
that's very significant is it looks at those practices that historically lead to discrimination. so new things like voter i.d. laws and proof of citizenship laws but things that fly under the radar like redistrict annexation, closing polling places that has a big impact in diluting and disenfranchising minority voters. so between the federal approval parts of the bill and the known practices, as they're calling its, part of the bill, that's a lot of protection for voters. >> there's two categories. they say okay, fine, you didn't like our previous rationale, you said it was no rationale at all, you threw it out. but we're going to say if there's a record in the state that's had cases against it, that state will be in this cat ghier will get this pre-clearance scrutiny. and we'll also get this set of practices that we know have the effect of disenfranchising people and when those practices are put into effect, that will also trig they are advanced scrutiny. >> absolutely. what they're saying is there is a legal record for covering states in the future. you look at texas, they've had 170 voting rights violations in the last 25 years. obviously a state like texas
should be covered. but they're also saying racial discrimination in voting gets more sophisticated. it gets more advanced that's why you needed a voting rights act in the first place, by the way. they're saying you have to look at the new voter suppression tactics, whether it's closing polling place, a redistricting that disenfranchises voters, a new voter i.d. that looks rational but you look at the data and minority voters don't that i.d. so florida's a bunch of innovative ways they're looking at stopping voting in this bill. >> the big question is with republicans controlling both houses, it will be introduced by democrats, i remember after the supreme court made the decision you had republicans saying "yeah, we'll look at it and come up with something." there anything anyone on the other side to move this forward? >> it doesn't look at it right now. to be honest there was a much more modest bill introduced last year that had bipartisan support but most republicans didn't support it. so if republicans aren't going to support the more modest compromise senator layhey said
let's go with the stronger bill. >> i think we'll see this front and center in the presidential campaign, particularly from the democrats, if this is one of the things that essentially is hanging in the balance as you wage a cam neighbor 2016. >> it should be a huge issue. number one, this is the 50th anniversary of the voting rights act. this is the first election in 50 years without the full protections of the voting rights act so we're not just celebrating the history, we're dealing with voting discrimination today. that's why hillary clinton has made the a big issue. it's not just a campaign issue, this is an issue will affect millions of voters come election time and that's why it's so important to talk about it now. >> ari berman whose forthcoming book is quite excellent. i'm recommend it to everyone. thank you. >> thank you, chris. from ferguson to baltimore, the confederate flag to voting rights, we in the biggest civil rights movement since the 1960s? next.
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joining me now, the co-director of the advancement project. judith you've been working in civil right laos for a while and i was going back through the record of when these confederate battle flags happened a bunch of them happened around the same time, around 2000 2001. how do you make sense of this moment we seem to be in now from trayvon martin to michael brown and freddie gray to what we're seeing in the aftermath of charleston to these battles we're having now around the voting rights act. it does feel like we are in the midst of something knew is its own kind of era of civil rights
activism. >> that's right, chris. i think we always see moments of retrenchment before we see break throughs and i think that we are on the pressprecipice of a breakthrough on race in this country created by a movement happening in the streets with young people saying black lives matter to people understanding that what has happened in south carolina is terrorism and a hate crime. so we're seeing americans coming together saying it's time for change. but we also see at the same time the resistance movement. the flag, the confederate flag is the sign of white resistance in the south and so we're going to have this inner struggle around race until we can have that breakthrough. we t breakthrough is coming at
an important time. we've seen the 50th anniversary of the freedom rides and the voting rights act and 50 years later we're still fighting but i do think we're at a moment in time where it's time for change. this new voting rights act is going to give us the advancements that we need. the people in the streets crying for justice at the hands of police and state violence. we're going to see a breakthrough, it's just a matter of time and we have changing demographics. so our country has to be ready for a new america that includes everyone. >> one of the dynamics here is that there's a dynamic between equality and inequality or progress and the status quo or retrenchment. but one of the most interesting, i think, in the wake of charleston particularly is between unity and division. we think of unity as a good thing and division as a bad thing but there's also the fact that part of the job of activists and part of the job of
people try inging to create social change is to create friction and martin luther king talked a lot about this. how do you understand the sort of relative value of those two things? like, we think of polarization particularly along racial line as a bad thing. but maybe it's sometimes productive? >> that's right. division is often important because that's where you get the breakthrough. at some point we have to take and stand and we have to say are you with us? are you on freedom's side or are you against freedom? and it's when we start to change hearts and minds around these issues of race is where we start to get the unity. but we have to underscore the division first in order for people to come along and say, you know what? i don't want to be on the wrong side of history. i want to be an inclusive america. everyone deserves the right to breathe in america and so i think that we're going -- that's the retrenchment part and that's why i'm saying we're going to
have retrenchment before we see some unity and there will still be some who will resist right? we will still have a george wallace. well, who is today's george wallace standing in the door of the schoolhouse or standing at the side of the flagpole? and so we're going to see that happening, but i think eventually people -- like you saw in charleston white folks and black folks have come together in times of adversity where we have decided that we have to be together in order to make a better america. >> judith brown dianis, that it is. rachel maddow starts now. thanks at home for joining us at this hour. the web site gawker is occasionally really quite profane. gawker is known, for example, for posting celebrity sex tapes. gawker also occasionally breaks real news as they did with this story that they did on the shirtless craigslist ads which resulted in a married family