tv Morning Joe MSNBC June 29, 2015 3:00am-6:01am PDT
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blind ied by hatred the killer couldn't see the grace sounting reverend pinkie the line of love as they opened the church doors and invited a stranger to join in the prayer service. the alleged killer never could have anticipated the way the families of the fallen would respond when they saw him in court in the midst of unspeakable grief with words of forgiveness. he couldn't imagine that. >> good morning. it's monday june 29th. welcome to "morning joe." >> what a moment that was. >> it was incredible. it went on. we're about to show you. so many since then. this is the most incredible news cycle the past five days. we have so much to talk about this morning. >> it has moved so quickly. i bet i can tell through are so many people who i talk to this
weekend who said you know what? i tuned president obama out. i mean this happens to most presidents after six or seven years. happened to reagan, the great communicator. people just start tuning presidents out. but to a person everybody said when he started speaking here they stopped and turned. i did the same thing. we were coming in from the trip and i got home. my kids were running around the house. and, you know usually it's you're on your way to the weekend and we all stop and just watched this. it was extraordinarily moving. >> yeah. it was. i was watching with my daughter. amy holmes is here jamie peters mike barnicle and our guest from d.c. there are 5,000 people in at rena where the funeral service where reverendreverendreverend pink
>> found that grace. >> susie jackson found that grace. ethel lance found that grace. depayne middleton-doctor found that grace. dan you'll daniel simmons found that grace. myra thompson found that grace. >> through the example of their lives, they now passed it on to us. may we find ourselves worthy of that precious and extraordinary gift. as long as our lives endure may
grace now lead them home. may god continue to shed his grace on the united states of america. >> they asked what it is like down there. i don't sit in front of the tv show for three hours to watch your show but quite a few people said i sat in front of this set to watch all three hours. and i said it was really like nothing we had ever covered. and it was nothing like we had ever covered because it was almost like a church revival. they showed remarkable grace and forgiveness and it was an example for the world and state
and generation. we grew up over the past 20 30 years with one bad example after another bad example put on television about christian leaders, whether you're talking about earl roberts or you can go down the ugly lift and this is christianity at the purest rawest form. >> it really was. the president aeg eulogy at that moment my 17-year-old daughter cried wane as totally swept into it. i think we were driven to go there and be there by the families. >> mike -- >> inspirational. >> yeah. >> you know it was the highlight of his presidency i think. he seized his presidency back from everyone in our business the media business who have been
writing his presidential obituaries going on two years from now. he telegraphed it i think, in his interview with mark marion a week ago. when he said to mark during that interview that i am now fearless. he doesn't have to run for re-election. and as the waning days of his administration approach we now see him becoming more and more in public who he really is. that is who i think president obama really is. we saw a huge element of that on friday. >> we are going to talk more about this in the must reads. ron has written a great piece. jeremy and amy can chime in. and joe biden spoke this weekend as well. it was incredibly healing and emotional on many other levels given what's been going on in his life. we need to go right now to upstate new york where the
manhunt for the two convicted murderers is now officially over. david sweat who was shot by police and taken into custody sunday spotted by a lone state trooper in constable, new york near the canadian border. he was transferred to albany medical center last night where he is kept in a secured, locked unit. the medical director says he's in critical condition. it all comes just two days after richard matt was discovered and killed by law enforcement in the woods about six miles from where sweat was captured. stephanie gosk joins us live from constable, new york. you've been covering this. what is the latest there? >> good morning. it's incredible about this this morning is this wasn't a s.w.a.t. team or tactical team with law enforcement with automatic rifles. this is one guy. one new york state trooper sergeant jay cook was on the back roads close to the border
of canada and just paying attention. he saw david sweat come out of the woods. he didn't realize who it was at first. he asked him to stop and freeze. instead of freezing, sweat took off in a run and cook who is a good shot they say, took him down with two shots to the torso and then arrested him. very soon after witnesses say, there was a huge number of law enforcement here on the ground. but it is all up to this state trooper. sweat was just on the canadian border. this is an area that is monitored by sensors but not always patrolled. this is a long border. there was concern all along he was going to slip through this dragnet and make it into canada. obviously, they caught him before he did. >> cow. >> oh, my gosh. >> stephanie gosk thank you very much. >> almost there. so close to getting there. thank you for all your great coverage on this. >> you see the two papers? >> yeah. somebody took off last night.
>> no. >> same headlines in the daily news and new york post. >> how did that happen? >> then you go on the back and these. >> that kid was great. >> was he? >> yeah. >> political news. we have chris christie joining us. celebrations and same sex marriage became the law of the land. a historic decision on friday when the supreme court ruled 5-4 held a fundamental right to same-sex marriage in all auto states. justice anthony kennedy writing for the majority "it would misunderstand these men and women to say they disrespect the idea of marriage. their hope is not to be condemned to live in lonliness he is excluded one of the oldest institutions. they ask for equal dignity in the eyes of the law, the constitution grants them that right." the decision was welcomed in countries across the country as many celebrated pride weekend. the white house was illuminated in rainbow colors on friday and
earlier the president had this to say. >> this ruling is a victory for america. this decision affirms what millions of americans already believe in their hearts. when all americans treated as equal, we are all more free. >> mike barnicle it's sort of mind boggling that the president is up there in 2015 and just as early as 2012 joe biden got out in front of the president and joe biden's low point politically inside the white house was when he did that. he became immediately per sonya nongraa. the staff wouldn't talk to him. the president throws him out. they were enraged just three years ago that joe biden said he supported marriage equality. >> yeah. >> everybody talked about how fast this goes. they go back to 2004. just go back to the president of
the united states that we saw here celebrated in 2015 scared to death in 2012 to get out front and say anything other than he opposed same-sex marriage and when his vice president did, it was the low point of his political career inside the white house. >> the interesting aspect of that, at least to me was they had two tracks going then. you had the president's track going then jeremy which is a political track, and the vice president's track going which as the vice president is awesomely human. >> it was personal. it was emotional. turning to republicans a little bit here i think a lot of parsing went on on friday as we were trying to look through republican responses to this case. and, you know you can read into the nuance of them as much as you want. i think one sicklengle unifying threat is none of the republicans support marriage
equality. not one. >> there is that. >> this is also about something larger. >> so they're taking the obama position for 2015. i'm serious. right now -- let's just please everybody be clear eyed about this. because i saw a lot of people in the white house saying look what we did. it's amazing. over eight years. so the republicans are now taking to be honest intellectually president obama's position in 2012 in the last presidential campaign until joe biden embarrassed him and made him come out. >> there are a lot of democrats that will say to this day the president and hillary clinton didn't show a lot of courage and leadership on that issue at the time. however, what i was saying is i think this is about something larger than just a republican party being on the losing side of history here. you don't have a single out gay republican in congress. you had one republican governor sign on to the ammicous brief supporting same-sex marriage.
you wonder by the time a republican comes around if it's going to be too late. >> let me say this. they may not be out but there are gay republicans in congress. >> oh, my gosh. >> we talked about cpac going cpac, i didn't see a single person in cpac under the age of 40 that did not oppose -- did not support marriage equality. everybody there did. this is a party that's not split with the rest of america. this is a party that is split with itself. >> absolutely it's a generational issue for the republican party and one of politics and the ivan jelee evangelical retrictionre restriction. president obama said it should be between a man and a woman in 2008. i also point out the irony president obama is being sort of
saved on this by a republican appointed supreme court justice, chief justice roberts writing the majority opinion. >> that and health care. >> and really quickly, everybody saw this coming. pat buchanan i remember five years ago, you know cultural warrior told me five years ago this battle is already over joe. >> and for a lot of republicans privately, it's a relief. it takes the issue off of the table. >> look at the republican primary. candidates are fighting to become the most spoeshlestst socially conservative. they seem to be rushing to denounce this as the -- >> you know what? you're going to hear that for the next couple of weeks. you may hear that from other candidates, make no mistake. 95% of republican candidates are relieved they don't have to talk
about marriage equality any more on the come pain trail and 95% of republicans are relieved that ron fornier that they don't have to talk about their health care plan to save america. yes, this was a bad week for conservatives. but politically, i'm not even being cynical here. i'm just stating the political reality. this took two albatrosses across the neck of republican candidates who want to run the next generation. these issues are are off the table. >> i agree. that's a very good point. for me though these two -- both these storeiesstories, the confederate flag in charlotte and the decision intersecretaried in little rock. i was standing in front of the little rock nine memorial, the kids that were not allowed in the school and eisen how had to intervene. i'm standing there by happenstance with an african-american man who turned
out to be a preacher from missouri. and we're talking about how remarkable it is that we're standing in front of this statue and over the shoulder is the governor's office the same office used by bill clinton. we're talking about how fast how slowly things have changed but how quickly they have changed in 57 and in the 6 o0s. i said do you know what is going on down the street? he said, no. i said well there's gays being married down the street. it's amazing watching the men and women who have not been able to have a legal marriage now being married. incredible moment in history. he said what is happening? i said well gay marriage is hatching right down the street. he said that's not right. i said what are you talking about? he said that's against the law. that's against the bible. that's against god's law. we had a really interesting conversation. sir, the language you're using explaining why gay marriage
shouldn't ab loud is the same language that segregationist governored used saying that they shouldn't ab loud in schools. he said things change so slowly but then they happen all at once. when the president gave that amazing speech, which i think was just incredible bit of leadership, i was thinking about the word grace. and i think we have to have grace. someone like me who sports same-sex marriage has to have grace to understand why he's coming from. and the folks who are leading people like him, republicans have to have some grace. you can't have mike huckabee saying that we have to ignore the supreme court ruling. we can't have jindal talking about getting rid of the supreme court. both sides going through this change of leaderships have to show some grace. >> i agree. and i agree both sides need to show grace. and the winning side needs to show grace as well as the losing side. you cannot call a republican a bigot in 2015 for taking the
same exact position that president obama took in 2012. >> although joe, if i can interrupt. i think can you look at a harsh word like that and talking about republican leaders playing to the bases by saying we should ignore the supreme court and get rid of the supreme court. >> well of course. >> and there are plenty of bigoted things being said out there and are being said. >> if somebody says and we'll get into this debate much much later. but -- we'll talk about it later. >> all right. >> we have too many to say. >> i know. and also there is much mover news to cover. still ahead, three big stories we're following across the globe. three terrorist attacks in one day including in the birthplace of the arab spring tunisia where western tourists were the targets. plus the deadline to reach a deal over iran's nuclear program will come and go tomorrow
without an agreement in place. now holding up progress. and crisis in greece. >> boy this is a wreck. >> officials taking radical steps to stop the run on banks. richard hos of the council on foreign relations joins the conversation. that and a lot of politicians jumping into the ring for more republicans. >> chris christie? >> it's like a football team. all right. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. l day in baltimore where most people probably know that geico could save them money on car insurance, right? you see the thing is geico well, could help them save on boat insurance too. hey! okay...i'm ready to come in now. hello? i'm trying my best. seriously, i'm...i'm serious. request to come ashore. geico. saving people money on more than just car insurance. my school reunion's coming fast. could be bad. could be a blast.
and get 10 gigs of data for $80 a month and $15 per line. the win-win-win. hurry in, offer ends june 30th. and save without settling. only on verizon. we're talking about the supreme court decisions. what's so fascinating about john roberts is how roberts was loved by liberals and loathed on thursday when the obama care decision came out. and then on friday he was loved by conservatives and loathed by liberals who thought he was bigoted because he was against the gay marriage rule. and the language in both cases
were very consistent. it was about judicial restraint on thursday. he said i'm not going to do what conservatives want me to do that voters refuse to do at the voting box. you mean that's a great irony about legislating. from the bench it's the last thing john roberts said he was doing. i'm not going to legislate from the bench. if people wanted to change this in '08 and '12, they could have done it. they didn't do it. the next day he said this is going state by state, let them do it. we don't need to get in. and big foot everybody. so roberts caught between both sides. >> as we followed those huge stories and we're in charleston on friday, there is so much that was happening even overnight and through the weekend. let's get to foreign news now which hits home. there is new concern among u.s. intelligence and law enforcement of an isis inspired attack in
the country through the july 4th weekend. the threat is based in part on the new normal of the isis planning which uses social media to encourage followers to attack on small and large scales. officials say the information preceded friday's deadly attacks in tunisia and kuwait. 27 people died at a mosque during friday's prayers at capital city. a saudi man is believed to have carried out the suicide attack with the support two of locals now in custody. and at a beach resort in tunisia. an isis inspired gunman's rampage claimed 39 lives, the majority of them british citizens on vacation. isis isis has claimed responsibility for both attacks but not in france where a worker at a gas plant has admitted to beheading his boss and then trying to bleow up fat silt. they're suspicious of a selfie the suspect took with the head and with whom he shared it with.
he sent it by over phone to someone. joining us now, president the council on foreign relations richard hass aennd a men mole dean. >> this is something of a state, something of an organization and something of a movement. and it can do things that also can inspire things. that to me is the most worrysome. homeland security can deal with that. but what we can't deal with is hundreds of what you call retail terrorists in this country and around the world. they're going to succeed. there is no way any society can defend every movie theater, every grocery store, every beach. and that's what is so worrysome. >> and if some guy is inspired by the hate he sees on the internet and takes a gown a beach resort in tunisia, you know, there is not much a
defense. >> this was a guy college educated. came from a very supportive family, a very loving family. he was known in the neighborhood and community. that is more of a concern for officials. when you're trying to come up with a profile of an individual who you say let's go after these individuals, let's try to target where they may be siding the truth of the matter is it's very difficult to. you're seeing a spectrum of individuals who are carrying these types of attacks and that's going to make it more difficult for law enforcement to pin point. >> isis is prone and is very receptive to the lone wolf syndrome. they're very very difficult to track. very difficult to monitor as we all know. the selfie was sent by cell phone to people in canada. they're wondering who has that photo, why was it sent to a canadian cell phone number. unlike al qaeda that is broken
up isis because of the lure and propaganda and use of social media attracts exactly these kinds of people. >> and to the second point, while isis is inspiring lone wolves, there is a network that allowed this guy -- he just showed up in kuwait a few hours had, a safe house had a driver that is the major cause of concern. there is the support network that exists in the shadows and these individuals just can be popped in and still be activated and carry out attacks like we saw. >> then there is iran "the washington post" says, the u.s. and iran will miss tomorrow's deadline to reach an agreement in the nuclear negotiations. a senior u.s. official acknowledged that talks go past the june 30th target date. zbh i'm shocked that they miss another deadline. what can you tell us? >> should they walk away? >> we don't know the final thing. >> what is it? >> i think on both sides you're
seeing last minute questioning. on iranian side the ayatollah is out there making comments. >> what do you make of the ayatollah's comments which are deal killers. this president in the united states will face a firestorm if he agrees to something that does not allow very aggressive inspections. >> had they will will be deal killers. he doesn't seem to be preparing the iranian people for the compromises they have to accept. >> do they think they can completely roll over this president? >> i hope not. on the american side, what we're beginning to see is greater pressure against the themes we're seeing in the deal and in particular what is emerging is the single biggest issue is not whether they violate the agreement, the question of do we get the access we need about ut what happens if they live up to the agreement? the danger is if they live up to the agreement, what happens after 10, 15 years when aspects expire and you're seeing a growing number of people. the real danger is if iran does comply. and then in 10 or 15 years,
they're close to breakout. other countries in the region will probably then want to follow suit. that is the worry so many thing. >> so let's go to iran to greece this morning. the banks are closed down. the greek government it's mind bog willing to me. they know they have the crisis that is unsustainable yet they say to lenders, we're not going to do anything you want us to do. just give us the money and we're not going to cut any benefits. oh, and also we're not going to get taxes from the wealthiest people in greece. >> well greece basically has totally frustrated the lenders who said we're not going to keep giving you money if you're not going to make reforms. what the germans and others are saying, as big the risk is of your leaving, it's a bigger risk for us to compromise now because we set a terrible press tent that everybody else in europe would follow. greece is beginning to get very close to this strange area. they're going to have a
referendum in a week. the government opposes the passage of the referendum. we don't know the wording yet. it is some version of do you want to -- >> why won't they cut spending? why won't they go after tax cheats? >> for this government which ran against the whole idea of compromise towards europe this would be a violation of what they want. so they are unwilling to show any leadership. what they would say is we're not going to accept austerity. we're not going to accept an unreasonable deal. but right now you have capital controls. you can't take money out of the country. people are limited to less than $100 of what you can take out of accounts. government has to start putting forward scripts. there is not enough euros coming in and they're entering a place we haven't seen. >> haven't they already cut quite a bit out of the budget? >> yeah. the previous government was quite responsible. thins moving in the right
direction. this government came in, totally stopped any reform process. and europeans are fed up with them. i don't know how the greek people are going to react. poll show a majority of the greek people want to stay in the euro zone. want to stay in europe. this government does not want to accept any responsibility for doing that. that's where greece is right now. >> so much news still to cover. thank you so much. richard, stay with us if you can. coming up president obama called the supreme court's landmark ruling on same-sex marriage in america a thunder bolt. we'll have a look at his evolution on the issue. you do all this research on the perfect car. gas mileage , horse power... torque ratios. three spreadsheets later you finally bring home the one. then smash it into a tree. your insurance company's all too happy to raise your rates. maybe you should've done a little more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident.
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as the nation begins to fully absorb friday's historic supreme court decision take a few moments to offer a reality check to the overly self congratulatory washington and the all too predictable political conversation. this goes both ways. >> a thunder bolt that's the way president obama described it on friday. and that was the banner headline in lynchburg, virginia's news and advance. that's the swiftness with which same-sex marriage has become the law against the united states. it's a cultural and political shift. the likes of which we'll never see again. the likes chf america has literally never seen before. >> the polls show that no matter who you are, where you live how much you earn or who you vote
for support for same-sex marriage has grown across every possible demographic. in the last six years, support grew by 19% among all americans, 23% among whites in the midwest, 25% among suburban women, and 22% among hispanics, support has even grown in small town rural america where they're making a major shift. >> it is worth noting that those are the six years after marriage was legalized in the early voting states of iowa and new hampshire. the overall change is attributed to openness. >> in 2004 62% told pollsters they personally know or work with gays and lesbians. this spring that number had risen to 77%. so while it's true theenl five men and women ruled in support of marriage on friday, they did so with the support of millions.
>> on the political level, this chart shows the speed of the victory compared to interracial marriage prohibit women sufferage and legalize add borgs. these were fights that stretched across decades for wins at the federal level. same-sex marriage did it in less than a generation n fact, did it in a dozen years. >> the practice had long been illegal until a massachusetts court decision inspired a wave of legislators to add bans to their state constitutions. the following year it was on the ballot in 13 states bans won overwhelming majority across the country including ohio michigan oregon mississippi's ban passed with 86% of the vote. >> if political leaders weren't using the issue to their advantage, others were avoiding it. that included president obama who spoke so forcefully of his belief in same-sex marriage this past friday because for years the same president obama
disguised where he stood on the issue. now that's not saying that that's not me saying that that's his chief political adviser david axelrod saying that. the man who guided him from the illinois state house to the white house. >> in the book published this winter, he said the future president said i don't feel any marriage is threatened by the gaik couple next door. but he said he also knew the political reality. opposition to gay marriage was strong in the black church. as he ran for higher office, he accepted the cancel of more pragmatic folks like me and modified his opinion. >> so this is how president obama spoke about marriage on the campaign trail. >> define marriage. >> i believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. now for me as a christian it's
also a sacred union. god is in the mix. >> that was august 2008 at saddle back church in california. yes, it was his faith n 2008 that made him believe that marriage could only be between a man and a woman. that was moving his faith. >> obama said that at a time when supporters of same-sex marriage were fighting a ballot proposition. on election day, they lost that battle. and same-sex marriage came to a halt in california. even as public opinion slowly turned in their favor during the obama years. the bans spread like wildfire. >> still president obama would not come out and n. full support of same-sex marriage. here he is after repealing don't ask don't tell in 2010. >> with respect to the issue of whether gains and lesbians should be able to get married, i spoke about this recently. as i said my feelings about
this are constantly evolving. i struggle with this. at this point, what i've cede is that my baseline is a strong civil union that provides them the protections and the legal rights that married couples have. i think -- and i think that's the right thing to do. >> still opposed in 2010. and then along came joe biden. >> i am vice president of the united states of america. the president sets the policy. i am absolutely comfortable with the fact that men marrying men, women marrying women and het heterosexuals are entitled to all the civil rights and liberties and quite frankly i don't see much of a distinction beyond. that. >> there he goes. >> that got him in so much trouble. >> they were enraged. they were pretty mad.
that biden got out in front of the president on this. he was shunned by the president's team public i had ridiculed as a blabbermouth who didn't know when to shut up. joe biden forced the president to say this. >> at a certain point i've just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that i think same-sex couples should be able to get married. >> it wasn't that hard. >> slow clap. oh, come on. >> so long to get there. the president is showing such great leadership. oh my god. he's been scared every step of the way. >> but that was all he was willing to do then. >> can you not name a single issue in my lifetime where they said because i believe in jesus i think x and looking at poll officials here. look for that issue, you'll
never find it. he threw jesus under the bus in 2008 saying he could not support same-sex marriage because he loves jesus. >> you just showed all the graphs about how the country has evolved ever so quickly, even in small towns, even in certain communities where you least expect it. isn't it possible that the president had the same evolution? >> david axelrod said no. zbh >> oh, please. there is an evolution here. a lot of people i know experienced this. zbh and there is something that is very offensive to me that people, that there has been a remarkable change over the past ten years. people writing articles say maybe it's because of "will & grace." no. more americans have become more exposed to gay men, leezsbian women that they know or married to and suddenly they go wait a second, they seem extraordinarily happy.
they seem extraordinarily -- they are functioning better than a lot of my straight friends. >> so-called. >> that is always the way that gay rights activists got state legislatures to pass the laws in the first place. they would bring gay couples in that didn't have gay friends and didn't have out gay relatives. once they saw that these people are normal just like the rest of us that, is a big help. but to your point, don't you that i where obama was in 2008 is similar to where the republican party is today. people are privately saying yeah, we don't think this is in a big of a deal. >> i think where president obama was actually in 2012 is where most of these republicans are in 2015. i do think though that like president obama, many of these republicans have a party that is split on this. and younger republican voters younger conservatives who want
the federal government out of their health care they want the federal government out of their pocketbook, they want the federal government out of their lives, they want the federal government out of people's bedrooms. that is a split that's been coming in the republican party for quite some time. and we're seeing it in full effect right now. so for the first time in a long time mike barnicle if you have a conservative candidate on the far right blowing, you know, fire over this issue, there will be younger republican voters that vote in primaries that will not be standing up and cheering. >> that is one of the more interesting elements of this discussion. we can talk about what happened in the court last week until ad nauseam nauseam. but for most people i know and huge majority of people under the age of 35 in this country, republican and democrat they're saying to us what's the big
deal? >> the dissemination of information. >> that is an interesting question whether this is a one off because america changed as society, or is there something about this that says in the future, politics may have a different dynamic. this is not been a one off butter issues could change as quickly as well. >> by the way, i need to say this just to be very clear. i think john roberts got it right. i think this supreme court got it wrong. i have been saying since 1994 when i first started running and a lot of people in my district were not happy when i was saying this that there shouldn't be a federal ban. i didn't even take barack obama but many believe to be a bigoted position. i said this should be decided state by state. that said all the states were going in that direction. that was -- sometimes that's a cop out. i've been saying it consistently since '94 when it was not in my political interest to say it in
1994. >> i will say, we accuse the president of looking at polls and make some of the republican candidates need to look at the evolution and the polls of late and get a sense this is done. done. >> it is done. the supreme court -- >> get over it and stop talking about it. up next strom thurmond his son paul now a state senator in south carolina joins us next to explain his own push against the confederate flag. we'll be right back. two streetlights. the only difference: that little blue thingy.
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>> congressman, it is still up at this point. i think there is a very strong possibility that it comes down. it's going to take two-thirds of the legislature to pass that. senate has already made the decision to have the debate. the house made the decision to have the debate. i think there's a good possibility. we're hoping your viewers that feel strongly believe it should come down maybe all that call some of the legislators that might be on the fence encourage them in an appropriate way. >> we have a lot of south carolina friends that watch this show. that will be a great thing. talk about your movement to this position. obviously a lot is made of strom thurmond's position. what about paul thurmond's decision? >> congressman, i think for me i found myself making excuses on a regular basis. i was attracted to the idea that there was a compromise and, therefore, i didn't really have to take a position. there had been a compromise 15 years ago to bring it off the
dome to this more -- to a very predominant place in the capital. i had self-reflection in that regard. i had a wonderful opportunity to go to a prayer vigil right after this tragic event occurred and i prayed about it. i talked to my wife about it. i prayed some more. i had a very very important sunday school class, saw these -- the families of the victims respond the way they did and say i want to turn this tragic event into something positive for the state. and so the result was i came out, the governor came out on monday. i was there with the governor. i made a speech on tuesday to encourage the other legislators and fortunately we have put it in a position to now debate it discuss it and hopefully bring the flag down within next week or two. zbh mike? >> senator, could you talk a little bit more about that about the reaction that you've
gotten from people in your district, the people you represent, the people you know boj both pro and against? >> i'll tell you, congressman, it has been absolutely unbelievably positive. the day i made the speech probably within an hour or two there were numerous e-mails, texting, facebook messaging of encouragement. a favorite quote is i believe it was from the midwest. a fellow told me i'm very proud your courage. encouragement was you'd rather be a lion for a day than a lamb for 100 years. i've had people tell me that after they heard that speech they went out and removed their confederate flag that was flying outside. i've had a gentleman write me and talk about how when he was younger he got a federal -- excuse me a confederate flag tattooed to his arm and he made an appointment with a
dermatologist to get it removed. the response has been overwhelmingly positive. and i'm not trying to encourage haters out there to start writing me in the negative. but it has been to date hundred of positive to half a dozen negative. i think most of the negative is that they want to continue to hold on to their heritage. and i'm not -- i'll be very candid. i love the heritage that i have. but there are parts that i'm not proud of. and in this particular circumstance those that were fighting to continue the act of slavery, you just got to call it like you see it. that's what i did on tuesday. and it's been an excellent outpouring of love and support. >> south carolina state senator paul thurmond. thank you very much. >> senator, thank you so much for being us with. we really appreciate you coming on and sharing your story. >> thank you. >> people have an evolution on issues. >> isn't it great? >> it's fantastic.
>> wonderful. coming up the path of presidential candidates growing with two governors set to make major announcements. can john kasich and chris christie overcome deficits with donors? and we have the exclusive details of their impending announcements ahead. song: rachel platten "fight song" ♪ two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪ i'll take those odds. ♪ be unstoppable. the all-new 2015 ford edge. they make little hearts happy and big hearts happy too because as part of a heart healthy diet, those delicious oats in cheerios can help naturally lower cholesterol. how can something so little... help you do something so big.
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best thing to hope for when you're eulogized. after all the words and resumes are read just say somebody was a good man. >> welcome back to "morning joe." ron, we didn't get to it last hour because there is so much going on but you wrote in the national journal a eulogy a call to action and too many deaf ears. art of it you write this one wonlders how such a speech would have been received at the height of obama's popularity or toward the end of a tenure that lived up to his promise to unite the country rather than further polarize it. it was a poetic punctuation to a week that will be remembered in terms of the president's legacy and america's struggle toward equality and perfection of the
union. the fact that half of america or more long ago tuned out obama and won't truly hear this speech is a shame. and i read a couple of pieces that say you can't just read it you have to watch it. >> you have to watch it. i don't think the text of it jumped off the page like others did. but, ron, the moment was special. he seized the moment. i was thinking the same thing that you wrote when i stood there staring at the tv while my kids were running all around in the kitchen. it was -- i actually stopped and said when is the last time that i just sat frozen staring at a president delivering an entire address? >> yeah just the idea of an african-american president singing a spiritual from a southern pulpit it was amazing. and his message of grace. at one point he talked about how we have to reach -- help others reach back and understand why this issue, the confederate flag
issue changed so quickly for them. i see that same message relevant in the gay rights story which is another big story last week. we need folks would support gay marriage need to help others understand why this moves so quickly. i think his message of grace in politics, that's part of what made his message so compelling in 2008 and it's where he's the best. and that was an amazing example of leadership. >> vice president joe biden attended services at the church where the attack took place on sunday. he aggressed the congregation an emanuel ame and spoke about the importance of faith when dealing with pain and loss. >> i wish i could say something that will ease the pain of the families and of the church. but i know from experience and i
was reminded of it again 29 days ago that no words can mend a broken heart. no music can fill the gaping void, at least in my experience only faith. >> he always speaks from the heart, mike. and really you know there was the inspiration of the president's eulogy and then the connection here with joe biden to the pain. >> you know the two men, the president and the vice president, have been joined figuratively in the last three weeks since beau biden's death in a way they had not really -- always been tight. always been friendly always got along. the last three weeks have formed a uniquely even stronger bond i think, than they enjoyed before. the other aspect of the president's speech that you pick up anecdotally over the weekend
is in a one of the president's core constituencies when he ran in 2008 and ron eluded to this is young people. you know hope change he's different. he got them back on friday. they had dropped out, tuned out, not listened to him. i think he got a huge percentage of them back on friday. >> there was a huge i think, opening created by the words of those families in the courtroom when they faced down the gunman. i think everybody, even the president himself in that day, hours after the shooting seemed almost beleaguered by are we ever going to do anything about guns? are we ever going to do anything about race? are we ever going to have something more than a conversation and then the videos start to light up facebook and twitter and everywhere you went with the words of these families. >> and what is most remarkable was, no you probably not going to get gun legislation through
congress. no you're probably not going to get the mental health counseling program through congress that you want buchlt what did we find here? we found what the guest that's we had on friday the grandchildren of one of the victims saying hate won't win and stop looking to washington for a change. have the change happen in your heart. in this case that's exactly what happened in charleston. >> that's right. you used the word healing with the president's speech and also with the reaction by the families. i think that is exactly right. but we saw faith and religion at its best. not only for the individuals to draw on personal faith to be able to grant forgiveness to this young man who is so destroyed their families, but also how faith can be healing in terms of the community and the community coming together. i think that was a great thing for fellow americans to witness. >> well moving on now.
congressman trey gowdy said he may be forced to call on secretary of state john kerry to testify about hillary clinton's e-mails and the 2012 attack on benghazi. the comments came in response to new revelations about 15 missing e-mails from clinton's personal server to long time adviser sidney bloomenthal. gowdy said sunday that the fact that they exist discredit what's clinton has said about what she's turned over. >> it undercuts the three main points that secretary clinton made. the public record was complete. you'll remember if her single press conference they said she turned over everything related to work to the department of state. we know that is false. she said the e-mails from sidney bloomenthat will were unsolicited. we know that was false. so far -- she also said she had a single device for convenience. we now know she had more than a single device.
every explanation she offered to far is false. i have met with secretary kerry's chief of staff privately. we talked on the phone last week. our next interaction will be public. if i don't get satisfaction from that public interaction with his chief of staff, the next person to come to explain to congress why he has been so hesitant turning over the documents will be the secretary himself. >> i saw the comment you wrote after the state department made the remarkable remarkable decision to not investigate something that very clearly needs to be investigated. and you weren't happy about it. tell us about your column and what you think of the state department dragging their feet. >> look the single biggest issue we have in politics is the public doesn't trust politicians, doesn't trust government. it's incumbent on our readers to make sure they earn that trust and hillary clinton for all her
strengths is really undermining the trust not just in her but -- and not just in democratic party but in politics in general. my view on all these kind of stories is you know don't presume guilt, don't assume innocence and follow the money. i would really like to know whether or not -- i don't know i would like to know whether or not in the e-mails we know we don't have all of that we know weren't fully vetted whether there's any communications about the donors to the clinton foundation. and, you know until we see -- until we know there is an independent vetting of her server, we're going to wonder whether or not there was a blur be. >> why wouldn't the obama administration investigate this? they very clearly off the record will tell you very clearly with eyes rolling they can't believe hillary clinton did this. and with eyes rolling they would say they don't think they have to live by the same rules that rest of us live by. and, yes, they don't
investigate. >> well, yeah. i judge people by their actions, not their words. white house officials tell me they're disgusted with the fact that hillary clinton violated the rules on foreign donations. violated the rules on e-mail. well, i haven't heard the president rebuke her. i haven't seen his state department investigate this. so i got to assume that the obama white house is complicit in this lack of trans pair ensane rule breaking and whatever else is going on that we don't know about. >> two more republicans are about to join the race for the white house. how many are we at? ohio governor john kasich will join the republican field on july 21st. he'll do so in a speech at the ohio state university. great place. sources tell the cincinnati enquirer that the two term governor and former congressman is hoping to meet a fund-raising goal of $15 million by tomorrow's quarterly filing deadline. and new jersey governor chris christie will likely kick off his bid 20 2 4 hours from now.
christie launched a new website and released the first campaign video with the slogan "telling it like it is." and on the democratic side new questions this morning about whether vice president joe biden will decide to run. "the wall street journal" reports that biden is being urged to join the race by his son hunter. unnamed sources also tell the journal that before his death last month, elder son beau biden also encouraged him to run for president. >> can we see joe biden getting in this race? >> you could. i kind of doubt it. >> really? >> yeah. it is certainly a possibility. but kind of doubt it. >> joining us from washington chief white house correspondent for poe litke yoe michael en. you have exclusive details about the chris christie presidential rollout. >> you know tomorrow at livinging livingingston high school where he was class president for three years, we'll see him talk about family, upbringing his wife
his kids a lot of people who were in high school with him will be there. mika, no teleprompter is part of the telling it like it is so that he'll talk off the cuff. and we'll really get a window into chris christie's bid. he'll fly to new hampshire for five days where he'll two three town halls, diner stops, house parties, luncheon endorsement events including capped off with a fourth of july celebration there with his new best friends in the granite state. >> his new best friends. >> was there ever a doubt that chris christie was going to run? it seemed like a month or two ago that he was considering not jumping in the race. what made this come about? >> well, there doesn't seem to be any doubt by chris christie. i think other people questioned his viability, especially with the strength of jeb bush. so much of the strength and money that's gone to jeb bush
would have been chris christie's. that is directly in his lane. of course he had the distraction, the investigations. what christie advisors tell us is that now people are are seeing that what chris christie said about the investigations was true and they recognize they're still going to have to talk about that. it made it tougher for him to tell his own story. they say by talking a little bit about it they believe that they can get past it. >> and john kasich that, is two weeks before the first debate. the debate is going to be in high hichlt he'll have a lot of work to do to make sure he gets into the top ten. >> can you imagine that? the sitting governor of the state not being allowed to participate in the debate in his home state? >> yeah. >> i think that is comical. depending on which poll you look at chris christie doesn't make the cut, bobby jindal doesn't make the cut, you have all the governor jumping in. they may not be on stage. that just remarkable if you think about it.
that tells you a lot about the scope and size of this field. >> does anybody remember george pataki? >> that's right. >> there are so many that came in. scott walker has been sort of a knockout for the past three months. rand paul you're talking about how rand paul disappeared on the gay marriage thing. >> that's not the only issue that he completely disappeared on. he was silent for a while on the confederate flag. he really ducked a lot of the controversial issues. that is really striking considering this is supposed to be the candidate that broke the mold for what a presidential campaign is supposed to look like. now he just looks timid. >> i think we're going to see you have the boomlets. they announce. is there a lot of attention and scrutiny? then there is the next person much it's the person that can withstand all of this and keep it going. i would also point out chris christie, there is still hard
feelings among conservatives about his -- about storm sandy and how right before the 2012 election he had president obama walking beside him serving the damage and seeming to prop up president obama right before an election. but there are hard feelings among some conservatives. >> yes, there. >> if i'm one of the republican candidates, i would be very leery of john kasich getting in this race. >> i feel that way, too. yeah he is very candid. >> i think he is a general it with wild card. >> i think chris christie is also somebody that everybody is underestimating. that's a guy that could light it up in new hampshire. and suddenly you've got -- this race could go in a million different directions. >> it's exciting. >> and you remember the scott walker phenomenon a month ago. >> i know. >> michael en thank you very much. ron, thank you as well. thank you. still ahead on "morning joe" with isis sending 90,000 social
media messages a day, the u.s. officials are are on high alert. and pete williams joins us to talk about concerns ahead of the fourth of july weekend. and if greece goes down will it take the euro with it? a bad sign, the banks are close ford a week. we'll go live to athens for the latest on this crisis. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. rs they're also kosher. kosher? yeah, they're really choosy about what goes in. so, only certain cuts of kosher beef meet their strict standards and then they pick the best from that. oh man! what'd we do? they're all ruined. help yourself! oh no, we couldn...okay thanks. when you hot dog's kosher, thats a hot dog you can trust. hebrew national. [alarms blaring] ohhhhh... whoa whoa whoa! who's responsible for this?!?
21 past the hour. the european central bank refused to extend funding to greek bank this is weekend leaving athens with no choice but to impose capital controls including a six day banking shutdown in order to stave off a complete banking system collapse. nbc news correspondent kerry sanders is in athens and joins us now. how are greeks reacting this morning? i'm hearing reports of some panic. >> well, mika it's not only a case of panic but confusion, especially for folks who don't have cash on hand. the banks are closed to day.
they'll be closed for the rest of the week. atms are technically functioning but they've been depleted of cash. they don't have money in them. when they do get replenished, folks are limited to taking out 60 euros as a time per day. so that means that there are $66 a day and for some people that's a really tough pill to swallow. it's really not that much money especially here in greece. so a lot of folks are now wondering as they look forward whether the euro may be giving way and the old currency may return. the euro crisis here in greece set off a world wide chain reaction. overseas marketed reacted this morning. they fell 3%. the london stock market is down 2%. experts say it's often hard to predict how emotions will impact trading. after five years of dramatic and often painful cutbacks on
government services, and attempts to have greek residents pay their taxes, the country is deeply indebted and cannot make an immediate loan payment of more than $1.5 billion. the long line to atms depleted of cash are not just hitting greeks those here on vacation are also caught up in this financial crisis. the senior class from the high school in california say they're mostly out of euros and they still have a full day to spend here before flying home. >> i'm completely out of euros right now. i feel like i can't get any more. >> while street protests are calm some folks in vacation said were they to know about this, twhoe have gone elsewhere on vacation. >> you would come to greece on your vacation knowing what you know now? >> i'd have to say no to that. >> tour operators say that they have been get something worried calls from americans. meantime russia's putin could step in and help greece if that
happens that would take a financial crisis and turn a potentially into a political problem for the united states tunk what has right now been a european problem into a problem that we would then have to deal with in the united states. mika? >> all right. kerry sanders, thank you very much. live from athens. this is -- it seems like this might be going over the edge richard. >> there's no happy ending here. no matter how the referendum goes this is a struggling economy. it doesn't have a political system that is working. the basic social compact. so whether they stay in or out, this is a long lasting impact. >> what is the impact on europe if it goes out? >> the germans are betting not much. they're not worried they say about this. european markets are getting hammered this morning. we don't know if that is temporary uncertainty. europe has bigger problems than greece which is the real lack of economic growth and reform. >> if they let greece spin off
that hurts greece more than europe? >> absolutely. >> why doesn't greece get that? >> because you have a political leadership blaming the ills on outsiders. this is a pure populous play joe. this is narrow raw, p populism. they came into office that's what they were voted to do. that's their story. >> so why doesn't europe just walk away? >> well that's basically what the chancellor in germany is doing. we're not giving you any more money. you have to do the reforms we say or else. they made the calculation that whatever ripple effects of greece leaving is not as bad as if they gave in to greece and setting example for spain, france, portugal, everybody else will follow suit. >> officials are warning of possible danger ahead over the holiday weekend. joining us now from washington nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. what is the threat and what steps are authorities taking at this point? >> they say they know of no specific terror plots. they say the concern is two
factors. first the calendar the obvious target that america's birthday might present and this year the july 4th holiday come during ramadan and second a much more concern is this relentless spread of isis social media. some of it intelligence officials say is aggressively calling for attack during ramadan and around july 4th. so what are people doing in response? well, the fbi is stepping up the pace of arrests. they've been bringing in people that are under surveillance for months suspected of plotting attacks here, seven arrests in the past two weeks. the secretary of homeland security is giving that now familiar advice, keep your holiday plans and enjoy yourself but pay attention and if you see something, say something. >> you know pete just a reference to you know authorities saying this authorities say that. it's an incredible story that has not been covered for logical reasons.
the work being done daily by officials at every level but especially at the federal level, border patrol things like that to prevent so far thankfully a isis type lone wolf situation occurring in this country. >> absolutely true. but, of course the problem is that no matter how much you shore up the border patrol it's people that are already here in the country that are the concern. look at the garland, texas example. two people in phoenix who became radicalized by social media and decided to go to texas. look at the case of what the fbi says they in boston is already here and decided he was going to, if he couldn't go to new york and attack somebody he would get a big knife and attack police in boston. so it's that social media. it's the unknowns that are of the big concern. now what you've seen in these arrests in the past couple of weeks is people that the msnbc had under surveillance that are right on the edge.
they're saying you know let's forget the surveillance. bring them in f there. if there's any criminal offense, get them off the streets. the big concern is the things they don't know of. >> it's not the real threat of people coming akroos the border but people already here and popping up as threats. what is your sense of what is being done or could be done to compete with the social media problem? >> that's the part that isn't being done. trying to find a counter narrative is something that gets a lot of discussion. but actually doing it in a way that is appealing to young people and doesn't just sort of look dorky, that's the hard part. and i don't know if you've seen the fascinating story that was in the "new york times" on sunday about a young woman who talks about her experiences and the appeal that isis social media had to her she was being raised by her grandparents. she felt isolated. and they detected that. and the energy they put, concentrating on those folks is a very strong message.
they know how to manipulate and the u.s. and the western world. this is a much bigger problem. as much as we focus on it we've had 100, 200 people go to syria. western europe has had hundreds of time more people. so this is a problem for the whole western world. they are way behind. >> pete williams thank you very much. >> you bet. >> talk about this more coming up. we'll talk live to new york governor andrew cuomo as the manhunt is finally over for the two escaped prisoners. we're back in just a moment. you drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels, then... wham! a minivan t-bones you. guess what: your insurance company will only give you 37-thousand to replace it. "depreciation" they claim. "how can my car depreciate before it's first oil change?" you ask. maybe the better question is why do you have that insurance company? with liberty mutual new car replacement,
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the people in the hamptons, they only like mike barnicle. the manhunt for the two convicted murderers is over. david sweat was shot by police and taken into custody sunday spotted by a lone state trooper in constable, new york near the canadian border. he was transferred to albany medical center last night where he is kept in a secure locked unit. the medical director there says he's in critical condition. it all comes just two days after richard matt was discovered and
killed by law enforcement in the woods about six miles from where sweat was captured. joining us now, new york governor andrew cuomo. thank you very much for being us this morning. i heard you congratulating law enforcement and rightfully so. that was quite a tremendous search and finally an end to this nightmare. what are we looking at in terms of the conditions and what happened. a lot went wrong. >> you're exactly right. you know first of all from the state's point of view state governor's point of view running the prisons are probably the most feared issues that could come up here in the state of new york we have the uprising under governor rockefeller. my father had the uprising up
the river in west chester. so prisons are dangerous places obviously. they're dangerous from a management point of view. this was extraordinary. this was dannemora one of the toughest prisons in the state, over 100 years old, first escape in the prison's history. and it was very complicated. it was done with facilitators and done with cooperators. this could be a book for mike barnicle to write. you had a woman who believed she was romantically involved with one or two of the escapees. and she helped facilitate. you had a correction officer who acted improperly if he didn't directly facilitate. he acted inappropriately and providing them material. you have this practice of an honor block which i understand the concept which is to keep the
inmates having a positive incentive. because if the inmates are well behaving then it's easier on the guards easier to manage the prison. but we have a lot of work to do investigating both the cooperate cooperators and making the point that that cannot happen and if that happens, that will be fully prosecuted. and number two, overall systems of the prison and what went wrong and are the systems that we should change? >> you were there from the very beginning. from your vantage point, what are you going as the legislature to do if anything to change the way the prisons are run to make sure this doesn't happen again? >> yeah. i don't think this -- i don't know if we need legislation here. i think this may be old executive action. and just be the management protocol that's we put in place.
i think -- aevennd it's premature. i ordered a full investigation. there is something about this situation, the prison was seen as the ultimate prison no one evernvironmentver escaped in 100 years. it was the feared prison. in the other prisons, they would threaten inmates who were behaving poorly we'll send you to dannemora. and no one had ever escaped. i don't know if that lent to it and the situation became somewhat lax or on the honor guard block people were given liberties that they shouldn't have been given. that we'll find out in the investigation. i don't think there will be legislation. i think it's just going to be our reviewing, our management structure. then you have some real peculiar things here. >> just strange. >> you had a worker who falls in love with one or two of the men,
believes they're going to escape, kill her husband and then live happily ever after which, you know i read quite a number of fairy tales, but i didn't come across that one. >> no i didn't come across that one. i think she would not have made it out of town. jeremy peters has a question. >> governor good morning. i want to switch gears to the supreme court decision recognizing gay marriage as a nationwide right. you, of course put a lot of your political capital into getting a law passed in new york to legalize gay marriage. when you look at governors and state officials in places like texas, louisiana, mississippi, resisting this and dragging their feet to try to implement this and drag it out as much as possible, what do you think about that? what is your message to them as a governor yourself who is charged with executing the laws? >> i think they're on the wrong side of history and i would say to them give it up. i'm very proud of what we did
here in new york. we passed marriage equalities we call it four years ago. it's going to be one of the proudest parts of my legacy here as governor. we all dream when we're in public service that we can accomplish something that makes society better makes the state better, makes the world better. recognizing marriage equality made this state a better state. you could feel it on the street. marriage equality is not about mashlg. it's about equality. it's the second word. marriage became the proxy for the equality discussion. we talked about civil unions and we said civil unions it's almost like marriage. it has all the legal rights. it's almost like marriage. theyed is we don't want almost like. we don't want marriage like. we don't want something that has
the same assets but not the name. we want equality. this is a group of people who spent a lot of their lives living in shame and in the closet. they wanted full equality. they deserve full equality. it is illegal to discriminate against people in the state of new york or in this nation. that's what the supreme court said. and gays will get full equality. marriage is a proxy for. that those politician who's are still fighting against it are fighting yesterday's battle. >> all right. >> and they're on the wrong side of history. they're on the wrong side of american philosophy and theory. >> new york governor andrew cuomo, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> thanks governor. we appreciate it. >> and still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> nobody has been held accountable for what happened in the past with my son. >> disturbing new claims of drugs being overprescribed at one va hospital with deadly
results. we have the investigation into the place being called candy land next. iness with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? how much protein does your dog food have? 18%? 20? introducing nutrient-dense purina one true instinct with real salmon and tuna and 30% protein. support your active dog's whole body health with purina one. when i'm shopping for a used car, i want to be comfortable. i don't want an aggressive salesperson breathing down my neck pressuring me into a decision. when i go to the supermarket there's no one pushing me to buy the more expensive cereal.
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44 past the hour. the department of veterans affairs was turpd turned up side down after long wait times for veterans waiting for services and benefits. you're looking into another case and this one involves prescriptions. >> that's right. of course there were new promises of reform new leadership at the va. some are still sounding the alarm, that includes families whose veteran rementives died while being treated at one va hospital. they say they were handing out powerful prescriptions like candy. that hit washington last week. i took a look for the nbc investigative unit. >> nobody's been held accountable for what happened in the past with my son. >> marvin's son jason, a form
mare reen died last summer while being treated at the va's medical center for anxiety and addiction to pain medication. his cause of death, mixed drug toxicity according to a county medical examiner. the va prescribed 14 drugs including painkillers. >>. it said 14. we didn't know that. it was in the autopsy report. >> the doctor in charge the prescription policies was dr. david houlihan. some patients and staff called him the candy man. and the hospital canned yea land. according to va documents obtained by the center for investigative reporting, prescriptions for four common opiates quadrupled. >> they come out worse than when they went in. >> they get all drugged up. >> jason wasn't the only patient to die under dr. houlihan's care. carrie spent years piecing together befdz what happened to
her brother army veteran craig farington. he died almost eight years ago just hours after being released from toma. >> what conclusion did you reach from all of this? what happened to your brother? >> they killed him. >> according to his death certificate, signed by county medical examiner he died from a polley medication overdose. a lethal mixture of prescription medications. the va even paid his family $97,000 to settle the wrongful death claim. >> when you hear there was a death that was so similar to your son's so many years earlier, how does that make you feel? >> sad, sick. i think, you know if things would have -- if action would have been taken back then i think there would have been my son probably would still be alive today. >> this spring after scrutiny from whistle blowers, congress and immediate yashgsmedia, the va ordered a view of practices. they caused patient harm and
fear of fat silt compromised patient care. another office the inspector general, conducted reviews including one released just ten days ago that reached a different conclusion. they did not substantiate the majority of allegations about toma or about dr. houlihan the alleged candy man. dr. houlihan's lawyer points to those inspector general reports to baseless accusations. he says the va won't allow his client to discuss patient care or his official duties. dr. houlihan remains on administrative leave with pay as investigations continue. >> i want to express my sorrow and regret for your loss. >> at a congressional hearing this month, the va's doctor addressed families of patients who died and said a safety initiative started three years ago has cut the number of veterans receiving narcotics. why is it that it took seven years after farington's death for a thorough investigation to
happen? >> what i think is that some of our usual investigative tools are much weaker than we thought. that's one thing we're learning from the investigations. >> dr. clancy later told us that even one death that could have been avoided is too much. >> something needs to be done to send a strong message this shouldn't happen again to the veterans out there. >> this past week the family was in washington. as wisconsin's two senators co-sponsored a bill that aims to prevent overprescription at hospitals. there's also an investigation about potential retaliation against whistle blowers at that hospital. that's one pattern we've seen in so many of the investigations that there seems to be a culture of maybe covering things up within the va. a lot they have to answer for. >> nice work. thank you very much. >> and the doctor is still being paid? >> still being paid. >> still on leave with pay. >> you know i unfortunately had experienced in my life that have known people and gone to the type of doctors in different communities and that's what they do call them candy man, dr.
roberts, whatever you want to you know whatever waunt to call them. they just write prescriptions. mike 14 medications for this young man who died of an overdose. >> is dr. houlihan's -- did he write each of the 14 prescriptions? >> not all of them much he was the supervising doctor and the chief of staff in charge of prescription policies and his name was specifically on several of them. so it's a pattern at that hospital. and when we aired this on nightly last night, in a different form we just got a slew of responses saying this is something we're seeing in other parts of the country, too. this is a real problem. >> no doubt. thank you very much. come back soon. still ahead, there is a new member of the "morning joe" family and he's perfect. we'll introduce you next. ♪ ♪ ♪ (singing) you wouldn't haul a load without checking your clearance. so why would you invest without checking brokercheck?
this is who we're talking about. >> a new member of the mnk mj family, and he's so perfect. >> i'm not new. i'm from here. >> not you. meet leo, son of our senior producer, daniel and his wife carol. apparently leo almost was born in a cab. sunday afternoon, and look at him. i have a baby to hold on the set. i can't wait. >> dan, be very careful because when you give mika babies and we know this you give mika a baby
on set, you don't give the baby back. she collects them. >> i can't wait to hold him. he's adorable. dan has been so excited. he's been so excited about this baby. and now he will never sleep ever again. never. >> leo is a great name. >> congratulations, and welcome. still ahead on "morning joe" -- ♪ amazing grace ♪ >> the moment from president obama's eulogy of the slain pastor of mother emanuel ame church that caught everybody by surprise. we'll have a closer look at his poignant tribute. plus the wide range reaction to the supreme court's historic decision that made same-sex marriage the law of the land. you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad.
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alleged killer could not see the grace surrounding reverend pinkney and that bible study group. the light of love that shone as they open the church doors and invited a stranger to join in their prayer circle. the alleged killer could have never anticipated the way the families of the fallen would respond when they saw him in court in the midst of unspeakable grief with words of
forgive forgiveness. he couldn't imagine that. >> good morning. monday, june 29th. welcome to "morning joe." >> what a moment that was. >> it was incredible. and so many since then. this has been the most incredible sort of news cycle the past five days. we have so much to talk about. >> it has moved so quickly. i can tell you there are so many people who i talk to this weekend who said you know what i had tuned president obama out. i mean this happens to most presidents after six or seven years. happened to reagan the great communicator. people start tuning presidents out. but to a person everybody said when he started speaking here they stopped, turned. i did the same thing. we were coming in from the trip and i had gotten home. my kids were running around the house. and you know usually you're on your way to the weekend, and we all stop and just stared at the set. it was -- it was extraordinarily moving. >> yeah, it was. i was watching with my daughter.
amy holmes is here jeremy peters mike barnicle and ron fournier, who wrote about this and we'll read in a second. he's joining us from d.c. there are about 5,000 people in the arena where the funeral service for reverend clementa pinckney was head. watched as president obama delivered the eulogy and at the end, this amazing moment. ♪ amazing grace how sweet the sound ♪ ♪ that saved a wretch like me ♪ ♪ i once was lost but now i'm
mr. singleton found that grace. myra thompson found that grace. through the examples of their lives, they've not passed it on to us. may we find ourselves worthy of that precious and extraordinary gift. as long as our lives endure may grace now lead them home. may god continue to shed his grace on the united states of america. >> a lot of people asked me this weekend what it was like down there. they said, hey, nothing personal, but i don't sit in front of the tv set for three hours to watch a show every day. but i had quite a few people say, i sat in front of the set to watch all three hours. what was it like? i said it was really like nothing we had ever covered. and it was like nothing we had
ever covered because it was almost like a church revival down there. as you said from the very beginning, it was the families that led by example. they showed remarkable grace, remarkable forgiveness. and it became an example for the community and for the state, for the nation and the world. we've grown up certainly over the past 20 30 years, with one bad example after another bad example put on television about christian leaders, whether you're talking about the catholic church or whether you're talking about jim and tammy faye bakker or oral roberts. you could go down the long ugly list, and here this was -- this was christianity at its purest rawest form. and it was breathtaking. >> it really was. the president's eulogy at that moment, my 17-year-old daughter
cried. and was totally swept. i think we were driven to go there and be there by the families. >> mike, it was something -- >> inspirational. >> inspirational. >> you know, it was the highlight of his presidency, i think. he seized his presidency back from everyone in our business the media business who have been writing his obituaries his presidential obituaries for going on two years from now. he telegraphed it i think, in his interview with mark marin a week ago. we spoke about this last week. when he said to mark in that interview that i am now fearless, that he doesn't have to run for re-election. and as the waning days of his administration approach we now see him becoming more and more in public who he really is. that is who i think president obama really is. we saw a huge element of that on
friday. >> we are going to talk more about this in the must-reads. ron has written a great piece. jeremy and amy can chime in as well, and joe biden spoke this weekend as well and it was incredibly healing and emotional on many other levels given what has been going on in his life. we need to go right now to upstate new york where the manhunt for those two convicted murderers is now officially over. david sweat, who was shot by police and taken into custody sunday spotted by a lone state trooper in the town of constable new york, near the canadian border, he was almost there. he was transferred to albany medical center last night where he's kept in a secure locked unit. the medical director there says he is in critical condition. it all comes two days after richard matt was discovered and killed by law enforcement in the woods about six miles from where sweat was captured. stephanie gosk joins us now live
from constable, new york. you have been covering this. what is the latest there? >> mika good morning. it's incredible about this this morning is this wasn't a s.w.a.t. team wasn't a tactical team with law enforcement, with automatic rifles. this was one guy, one new york state trooper, sergeant jay cook, on these back roads very close to the border of canada and according to officials, he was just paying attention. he saw david sweat come out of the woods. he didn't realize who it was at first. he asked him to stop and to freeze, instead of freezing sweat took off in a run, and cook, who happens to be quite a good shot they say, took him down with two shots to the torso. and then arrested him. soon after, very soon after, witnesses say, there were a huge number of law enforcement here on the ground. but it is all up to the state trooper. sweat was just on the canadian border. this is an area that is monitored by sensors but not always patrolled. this is a long border.
there was some concern all along that he was going to slip through the drag net and make it into canada and obviously, they caught him before he did. >> wow, nbc new's stephanie gosk thank you very much. >> almost there. so close to getting there. thank you for all your great coverage on this. >> you see the two -- >> yeah mike somebody took off last night. >> no. >> daily news and new york post. i don't know. then you get on the back. >> i want to get a little more news in. >> that kid was great. >> incredible. >> political news too. we have chris christie janing us. first, celebrations and new resistance as smaerjame-sex marriage became the law of the land. the supreme court rules 5-4, held the fundamental right to marriage in all 50 states. justice kennedy saying quote, it would misunderstand these men
and women to say they disrespect the idea of marriage. their hope is not to be condemned to loneliness. they ask for equal dignitly lyy in the eyes of the law. the constitution grants them that right. the decision was welcomed in cities across the country as many celebrated pride weekend. the white house was illuminated in rainbow colors and earlier, the president had this to say. >> this ruling and a victory for america. this decision affirms what millions of americans already believe in their hearts. when all americans are treated as equal, we are all more free. >> mike barnicle it's sort of mind-boggling that the president is up there in 2015 and just as early as 2012 joe biden got out in front of the president, and joe biden's low point politically inside the white house was when he did that
because he became immediately persona nongrata the staff wouldn't talk to him, the president froze him out. they were enraged, just three years ago, that joe biden said he supported marriage equality. everybody talked about how fast this goes and they go back to 2004 and the republicans, just go back to the president of the united states that we saw here celebrating in 2015 scared to death in 2012 to get out front and say anything other than he opposed same-sex marriage. and when his vice president did, it was the low point of his political career inside the white house. >> the interesting aspect of that, at least to me is you had two tracks. you had the president's track going, which is a political track, and the vice president's track going, which as the vice president is who is awesomely human. >> personal emotional. i mean pivoting to republicans a little bit here a lot of
parsing went on on friday as we were trying to look through the republican responses to this case. and you know you can read into the nuance of them as much as you want but i think one single unifying thread pulls all these together. that's that not a single republican of the 15 or 16 who are running for president supports marriage equality not a single one. >> there is that. >> there is that but i think this is also about something larger. >> so they're taking the obama position -- i'm serious, they're taking the -- let's just please everybody, be clear eyed about this because i saw a lot of people in the white house saying look what we did. it's amazing. oh, for eight years. so the republicans are now taking to be honest intellectually barack obama's position in 2012 in the last presidential campaign until joe biden embarrassed him and made him come out. >> there are a lot of democrats who would say and will say to this day, the president and hillary clinton didn't show a
lot of courage and leadership on that issue at the time. >> still ahead on "morning joe," waves of terror targeting an american company in france. we'll look at the rising threats from isis. plus maybe the revolution will be televised. michael wolff joins the table to talk about why television is actually thriving. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. woman: as much as i sweat, i always wore black. other clinical antiperspirants didn't work. then i tried certain dri.
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on both small and large scales. officials say the information preceded friday's deadly attacks in tunisian and kuwait. 27 people died at a mosque during friday's prayers in kuwait's capital city. a saudi man is believed to have carried out the suicide attack with the support of two locals. now in custody. and at a beach resort in tunisia tunisia, an isis-inspired gunman's rampage claimed 39 lives, the majority believed to be british citizens on vacation. isis has claimed responsibility for both attacks but not in france where officials say a worker at a gas plant has admitted to beheading his boss and trying to blow up the facility. authorities are suspicious of a selfie the suspect allegedly took with the head and with whom he shared it with. he apparently sent it over phone to someone. joining us now, president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass, and ayman mohyeldin. >> richard, tie this together
for us. >> isis is one and the same time something of a state, something of an organization, and something of a movement. it can do things but also it can inspire things. to me in some ways it's the most worrisome because it doesn't require physical presence to move across borders. what we can't deal with it is literally hundreds of potential retail terrorists in this country and around the world. there's going to succeed. there's no way any society can defend every movie theater, every grocery store, every beach. and that's what's so worrisome. >> and ayman, if some guy is inspired by the hate he sees on the internet and takes a gun to a beach resort in tunisia, there's not much of a defense to that, is there? >> not much of a defense. i was reading a little bit about the profile of this guy. he was college educated came from a very supportive family a loving family. he was known to his neighborhood and community, and that's more
of a concern for officials. when you're trying to come up with a profile of an individual you say, let's goarve the individuals, try to target where they may be hiding the truth of the matter is it's very difficult to. you're seeing a spectrum of individuals carrying out these attacks and that's going to make it more difficult for law enforcement to pinpoint. >> isis is prone, and is very resective, to the lone wolf syndrome. they're very difficult to track, very difficult to monitor, as we all know. the photograph that mika you just mentioned, was sent by cell phone to a canadian cell phone number. >> right. >> which now has people in canada, security people in canada wondering who has that photo, why was it sent to a canadian cell phone number. unlike al qaeda, which has been fractured and broken up to some degree at the top, isis because of the lure and the propaganda and use of social media, attracts exactly these kinds of people. >> the second point of that is also while isis is inspiring
lone wolfs, you look at an attack in kuwait there's a network that allowed this guy, apparently again, he showed up a few hours before the attack had a suicide vest or a bomb vest he was able to take a safe house, a driver. that is the major cause of concern, that there's this support network that exists in the shadows and these individuals just can be popped in and still be activated and karb carry out attacks. >> then iran, the washington post says the u.s. and iran will miss tomorrow's deadline to reach an agreement in the nuclear agreements. the talks will go past the june 30th target date. >> i'm shocked they're going to miss another deadline. what can you tell us? >> should they walk away? >> we don't yet know the final thing. there's a danger in wanting a deal too much. on both sides, you're seeing last-minute questions. the ayatollah has been -- >> what do you make of the ayatollah's comments which are deal killers.
if they're not deal killers. this president in the united states will face a firestorm if he agrees to something that does not allow very aggressive inspections. >> 100% right. he's not clear because he doesn't seem to be prepared the iranian people for the kind of compromises they would have to accept wrfrb. >> do they think they can completely roll over this pres? >> i hope not. on the american side what we're beginning to see is greater pressure against some of the themes we're seeing in the deal. in particular, what's emerging is the single biggest issue, not whether iran violates the agreement, the question do we get the access we need but what happens if they live up to the agreement? the danger is if they live up to the agreement, what happens after 10 or 15 years when aspects of the agreement expire and you're seeing a growing number of people and this is my biggest concern, the real danger is if iran does comply and then in 10 or 15 years they're close to breakout enormous capabilities. other countries in the region will probably then perhaps want to follow suit. >> let's go from tunisia to
iran, to greece. the banks are closed down. the greek government it's mind-boggling to me. they know they have a crisis that's unsustainable, yet they say to their lenders, we're not going to do anything you want us to do. just give us the money and we're not going to cut any benefits. >> oh, and also we're not going to get taxes from the wealthiest people in greece. >> greece basically has totally frustrated the lenders who said we're not going to keep giving you money if you're not going to make reforms. what the germans and others are saying as big of the risk as of your leaving, it would be a bigger risk for us to compromise because we would set a terrible precedent that everyone else in southern europe would follow. greece is getting close to this era where they're going to have a referendum. the government opposes the passage of the referendum. we don't know the wording. >> why won't they cut spending?
why won't they go after tax cheats? >> for this government which ran against the whole idea of compromise towards europe this would be anathema a violation of what they want. they're unwilling to show any leadership. what they would say is we're not going to accept austerity, we're not going to accept an unreasonable deal. you can't take money out of the country, people are limited to less than $100 of what you can take out of accounts. i think in a couple days the government is going to have to start putting forward script. there's no more euros coming in and not yet a drag ma. greece is entering a place we haven't seen. >> haven't they already cut quite a bit out of the budget? >> the previous government was quite responsible. things were moving in the right direction. this government came in, totally stopped any reform process. europeans are fed up with them. i don't know how the greek
people are going to react. polls show a majority want to stay in the eurozone want to stay in europe. this government though does not want to accept any responsibility for doing that. that's where greece is right now. coming up on "morning joe" acts of valor overlooked by the countries they serve. soledad o'brien joins us with a look at why some soldiers have been passed over for the medal of honor for decades. you total your brand new car. nobody's hurt,but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do, drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. when you travel, we help you make all kinds of connections.
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26 past the hour. north carolina activist made it her personal mission to remove the confederate flag from the grounds of the south carolina state house this weekend. 30-year-old bri newsome scaled the 30-foot pole saturday and descended with flag in hand. she said she couldn't wait for the state of south carolina to take action. newsome and another activist were charged with a misdemeanor. the flag was rehoisted less than an hour later, just in time for a rally for defenders of the rebel flag. >> it's not about a flag. it's about our rights. >> i'm here in honor of keeping what i believe needs to stay here as my southern flag. >> pictures like this were seen throughout the weekend. confederate flags lit on fire. this picture from chicago, like many across the country. nascar is also trying to distance itself from what it
calls an offensive and divisive symbol. last week, the company said the flag was not welcome in areas it controls but said it will work to keep away from races all together. we have had other companies chiming in. joining us now, journalist and ceo of starfish media group, soledad o'brien. it's been too long. >> a minute yes. >> too long. you have a project we're going to talk about in a moment. i'm just curious, big picture, confederate flag. everything. >> the two sound bites you ran from people who were against the flag being brought down they actually said nothing. one said it's about a right. and i think it's not necessarily about a right. i think we are becoming very clear now on what the confederate flag means. the people who created the flags themselves have been very clear what it means. they said the flag is a symbol of the white man's superiority over the black man. it's about white supremacy,
slavery, that fight was about slavery, the civil war. the idea we say, it's history and it's you know your heritage. i think all of that is kind of crap, like we should call it what it is and then of course we should decide if we're going to bring them down if that's what it symbolizes. >> i totally agree with you. it might be -- i don't get it. i don't get why -- >> it's very clear. there is no nuance on this issue at all. they were very clear what the flag means. >> yeah. what did you think of the president's eulogy. >> it was beautiful. and here is a president who has long, i think, had challenges in navigating race in his speeches. sometimes hitting the ball out of the ballpark. sometimes a little more challenged. and of course, he's judged more harshly, i think, than any president who was not black would be. i thought in this eulogy it was fantastic. you definitely get the sense that he has reached this milestone of like i'm going to say whatever i want to say and i'm going to do whatever i want to do. and the president had a great week. politically, you know, he won the week. >> he did. and i think he spoke and opened
america's eyes to this church and churches like it across the country and spoke in a language that was so inclusive to them to us to everybody. and i don't know. at a point where it almost seemed like everybody was a little beleaguered on some of these issues it's not opened up, thanks to the families and this church a whole new conversation. >> conversations about race are very exhausting. they're -- >> so easy to step into a ditch. >> we have never really had one. we talk about the conversation we're going to have we're going to have we're going to have. the other thing about this weekend is we hear injected into political campaigns by various candidates on both parties their faith, their element of faith. and yet, this weekend, on friday, you saw what faith truly represents. you saw what faith truly represents earlier in the week. faith, meaning deep faith means you're in the forgiveness business. that's what having faith in god,
faith in yourself is all about. it began with the families saying we 4 give you, and it continues on through the president's speech. >> we were talking earlier about that. something that is so cathartic and healthy about the grieving process we have watched unfold because it's remarkable how quickly they were to forgive and how open and candid and just emotive they are with their grief. >> how hard it is for some and how it seemed to just flow so easily from one person to the next. not that their pain isn't completely vivid for them every second of the day. speaking of race you have a new documentary. you're always working for al jazeera america. tell us about it. >> we wanted to see the back stories of those service members who were awarded the medal of honor decades after their heroic action. we took a look when president obama had actually put the medal around the neck we looked at specific service members, melvin morris was one, and then looked
at the history of the midedal of honor and what happened that over the years, 3,500 or so medals awarded something like 88 went to african-americans, 50-something went to latinos, fewer to jews fewer to nalttive americans, one to a woman. we wanted to understand the process and how it came to be these men were eventually given literally decades and decades after action their medal of honor. >> here's a clip from "honor delayed." take a look. >> america takes bravery to heart. >> as a code we leave no brother dying. >> and honors its heroes with medals. >> i said i was going in. i had to get to the body. >> yet, for some deserving americans, one high honor has
remained elusive. >> some of these soldiers fought and died for a country that did not always see them as equal. >> he saved the lives of his whole platoon. i don't understand why lenny didn't get the medal of honor. >> why do you think you didn't get the medal of honor? >> i don't know. some say that it was discrimination against mexican americans or blacks or whatever. >> good timing to have this. mike. >> could you describe the arduous process required to be awarded the medal of honor? >> not only arduous, it's also subjective. not only does the heroic action have to take place, you have to have numerous eye witnesses and then you have to write down exactly what happened and then it goes up the chain of command and continues all the way up. i had medal of honor winners say they had seen awardees i should say, say they had seen many
heroic acts they didn't know the names of people who did them or the battle would move on and there's no time to sit down and gather eyewitness reports and then put them together and move to the next phase. so a lot of it is just the system. it's very subjective. it also is very time consuming and it's a real process. at the same time there's another thread that says there were many service members who felt that they were discriminated against, not only specific instances that they saw, they couldn't sleep in the same hotel rooms as the people they were serving with but also they felt that there was a sense of, listen you don't want to honor this person with the highest award because that can give an opportunity for them to go up faster in the ranks. >> wow. >> it wasn't clear cut. there wasn't one person i interviewed who said it was discrimination, it was racism. they said, i just didn't know and most of them are so humble and so almost sense like they're not deserving anyway that they weren't pushing for it themselves. it was a review of the process that found that lots of heroic
acts have been overlooked. 1 million african-american men serving in world war ii. zero, not a one, was given the sense that that could have been a heroic act and given the medal of honor. >> "honor delayed" airs again on sunday on al jazeera. up next, how wall street is reacting to the financial crisis in greece. sara eisen joins us next on "morning joe."
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the austerity pain for the greek people, in the middle of negotiating with the europeans, decided to make a surprise move and call for a referendum. next sunday july 5th where he's going to let the greek people vote themselves on whether they should take this bailout package with some of the austerity measures attached. the problem was this totally blindsided the europeans. now the europeans are saying it's a slap in the face. they're making things hard for greece and we may actually i know we have been talking about it a lot, the greek exit from the euro we may be looking at that scenario depending on which way the greeks vote on sunday. >> what kind of cliff are we on the edge of watching this? >> we were -- the greeks were on a cliff. now, they're staring down at it. if they vote no we don't want to take this bailout package, that could be the end of greece's membership in the euro. there is a positive story here and that is europe's in much better shape than a few years ago when it was first dealing
with greece. it's really come together and has tools in place, including a very powerful central bank to try to ring fence this. greece is very tiny. it's about the precedent it would set about leaving the year euro. >> they can't leave greece be as reckless as they are and continue to bail them out. i know the banks are shut down. it seems like this is going to be the longest week waiting for this referendum. >> it is and it's ugly and that's why the uncertainty is spooking the markets. the euro currency is under pressure. european stocks are getting hammered. today, greece has a payment due to the imf, which has been lending it money, obviously, helps international crises, greece has this payment do. it doesn't look like it's going to be able to pay it. that means it's going to be sort of in default with the imf. it's another step along the way of the ugly path they're on. and leading up to that we'll watch the opinion polls to see which way the greeks are voting
in the euro or out of the euro. >> and start to the week -- go ahead. >> what kind of reaction, if any, will the street have to puerto rico? >> they said they can't pay their dent as well. the big question is they're not allowed to default, to go bankrupt. it's a u.s. territory. the question is is that going to hurt some of the municipal bonds that so many americans who don't realize, are holding in their pensions. we're going to want to see how the u.s. authorities and the u.s. financial authorities try to ring fence that problem. it's just another ripple effect that's already adding to a very nervous market. >> there's a push going on to try to change that law to allow u.s. territories to declare bankruptcy. >> right, wipe it clean, and they cannot right now. the thing is puerto rico is it is small. it's a different situation than greece because with greece if it defaults and leaves the euro the problem becomes do we have to worry about bigger countries like spain which are also in
weak shape relatively economically, leaving the euro and what would that ripple effect cause? >> all right, sara eisen, thank you. you have a busy day. >> a worrisome morning. >> just starting. thank you very much. how many times have you heard the television is a dying medium? we talk about it all the time. we're going to -- >> sometimes we fell it in slow painful ways. >> i think we do. we don't talk about it we live it. michael wolff, who says it might not be so true is he going to give us hope? >> yes, he is for good reason. >> really? >> follow the big money. how much protein does your dog food have? 18%? 20? introducing nutrient-dense purina one true instinct with real salmon and tuna and 30% protein. support your active dog's whole body health with purina one.
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clearly, the success of the netflix model, releasing the entire season of "house of cards" at once proved one thing. the audience wants the control. they want the freedom. through this new form of distribution, we have demonstrated that we have learned the lesson that the music industry didn't learn. give people what they want when they want it in the form they want it in at a reasonable price, and they'll more likely pay for it rather than steal it. the device and the length are irrelevant. the labels are useless, except perhaps to agents and managers to lawyers who use these labels to conduct business deals. but for kids growing up now, there's no difference. watching avatar on an ipad or watching youtube on a tv or watching game of thrones on their computer. it's all content.
it's just story. >> that of course was kevin spacey, star of the new hit -- not the new, but the series "house of cards" talk about the future of television. talking about the future of television michael wolff. i love this title. "television is the new television, the unexpected triumph of old media in the digital age." we should add the opening for empire strikes back. the opening is fantastic where you have the cocky tech guys the weather beaten exhausted tv guys. they all meet together. war is declared. and you say, look five years later, and voila. winning by a long shot television. >> totally, those guys at that meeting, you know guys like matt stone and trey parker they came out of that meeting saying you know we're finished. this is it. >> which everybody was saying three, four five years ago,
television as a medium is dead. now, matt stone, trey parker -- >> richest guys. >> richest guys in television. it's not going to slow down. what's happened? why is it we're looking at some of the start-ups the way we used to look at pets.com? >> in a way, it's because we've been sold an incredible bill of goods. the digital guys came along and they said we are the future. we're the future because you don't understand technology and everyone in our business said oh, my god. that's true. >> yeah. >> and you must be the future. and it didn't happen that way. >> you're sitting next to a "new york times" guy. you point out the fact the "new york times" for all of their efforts to go digital, the "new york times" still makes 80% of their profits on what old guys like me do. read a newspaper. >> i can't understand it. and everyone everyone in the publishing business says the following words. digital is the future. now, these are guys who have missed the future at every turn.
i think you can assume if they're saying -- >> so true. >> -- it's not true. digital is not the future. why the "new york times," i hate to -- >> don't worry. >> we all love the "new york times." >> why they're -- >> i am used to it. >> why they are not defending their 80% is beyond me. and because that's what television did. television, i mean they basically didn't waiver once. they said we're in the television business. our business model is as follows. and we're going to pursue it. >> look at les moonves. a shrinking violent -- oh, way, he wasn't a shrinking violet. wes is printing money by the telephone. >> i remember when i thought les moonves, geez the face of the past. that is the face of the future. this is the man who now not only controls television but who is going to go on. i can't -- i'm actually bated
breath to see what the next step in les' career is going to be. >> very interesting, i was shocked when i read it because i'm like a lot of media people who have been reading over the past years, you actually understand the finances of television. you said that brian williams would make more money for comcast on msnbc than he ever would on nightly news. that might sound shocking to people who don't understand the business, but with advertising and subfees, let me take it a step further from what i know from the inside economics of this place, it's not even going to be close. brian's going to make a lot more money for the company on msnbc than nbc. explain why. >> msnbc for nbc and for comcast, is make or break. i mean it is a major, major, major revenue center for the
network. >> it makes, right now, it makes over $300 million for the company. >> this is true for fox news for msnbc and cnn. these are major money makers. this is the news game on television. >> because people would think -- >> yeah they would think it's the shiny cars in the front window. explain why. >> the elemental thing that's happened in television. remember, everybody remembers television is free. i think people still think television is free. which is nuts because television costs an enormous amount of money. so television converted itself into a subscription media. you pay your cable provider your cable provider then sends the money back to msnbc, which sends it on to comcast. this is -- these fees are huge meaningful. >> by the way, somebody that has run this place said that for instance, msnbc, 75% of all
revenue from msnbc comes from subfees. the fees that local cable providers ss are willing to pay to nbc or fox or cnn to carry the channel. >> it's the divide between digital. digital said we're going to eat television's lunch and made everything for free. at the same time literally tracking. television then converted itself to at least half of its income is now subscription income. >> on cable, but not broadcast. on broadcast, you only eat what you kill. >> no broadcast, because of les moonves and retransmission fees beginning in 2006 so now half of cbs's income. >> cbs as well? >> all of that money that we pay to the cable provider is now circulated back or at least a significant part of it to the people who make content. >> mike. >> what do you say to people especially in new york and los
angeles, who make you feel absolutely stupid when they talk to you about television, they say, hey, this is the future. everything's going to be on this. television is going to fade away. people under 35 don't watch television today. what do you say to refute them? >> i say, you're missing what's happening here. television is taking over that. it's not that that is taking over television. quite the opposite thing is happening. this now, that screen or a laptop screen, all screens, are essentially television screen. so television which has always had this incredible ability to expand, and remember when cable came along, people said oh, network television is going to be finished. so now we have broadcast television we have cable television, and now we'll have streaming television. and what's the result? more people are watching more television than ever before. television is what we do. >> so who is the next to disrupt that model you were talking
about, subscriber fees? as we saw with hbo go they have started, kind of pioneered this where you can buy a subscription not going through your cable company, but going directly through hbo and getting it on your tablet. what's the next network to do that? >> i think all networks will begin to experiment with this. i think -- here's the issue, and netflix and hbo each make the same amount of money, approximately. they each pay the same amount of money for licensing and other fees. hbo makes a profit of $2 billion a year. netflix makes basically nothing. why? the real reason is the cable companies, because for hbo, the cable companies handle all of the churn, all of the subscription processes. netflix is exposed. people start a subscription drop a subscription.
its expenses are much greater. what happened to netflix, inevitably, they make a cable deal. >> and they're on tv. >> quality"television is the new television" michael wolff, thank you so much for being on the show. come back. >> congratulations, and by the way, congratulations are in order for another reason. >> what? >> when michael was on a book tour, but he has to get home fast every night. you want to tell us why? >> what? >> i'm having a baby this coming week. >> so nice. >> first announcement. >> i love it. >> amazing. >> congratulations. >> we just got a new member of the family. we're in that mode. thank you so much. good luck. have fun. up next what if anything did we learn today? our hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me.
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won't be the same without you bro. when it's go, go to the new choicehotels.com. the site with the right room, rewards and savings up to 20% when you book direct. choicehotels.com welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. >> leo john norwick is almost a day old. >> oh, wow. >> yes, dan norwick had a baby yesterday. dan didn't. his wife carol did. almost in a cab. he's beautiful. 7-plus pounds. and absolutely perfect. and i can't wait to hold him. joe, what did you learn? >> let's go to jeremy. >> i learned two things about foreign debt. i went to bed worried about greece, and i woke up even more worried about puerto rico. >> they can't pay their debts. mike, what did you learn?
>> i am not worried about people who can't pay their debts. i live it. i learned we are still talking about grace and forgiveness and the president of the united states speaking to us on friday and that's a good thing. >> yeah. >> and i learned that stram thermman's grandson talked about how the grace of the victims' families changed the way he looked at a symbol that said he would like to push it aside for a long time. that was his son, actually. his son, and how that grace changed his opinion and the opinion of many. >> wow, how things have changed. >> what an incredible week it has been. thanks so much for being with us. if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." what time is it now? >> time for "the rundown." have a great day. >> good morning, everybody. i'm francis rivera in for jose. first on "the rundown," new developments in the intense three-week manhunt for a pair of escaped killers.
35-year-old david sweat is hospitalized this morning in critical condition after being shot by an alert new york state police sergeant. his improbable run from the law came to an abrupt end by sergeant jay cook who nabbed sweat about a mile from the border with canada. >> i personally think that sergeant cook might have been the last united states citizen to view sweat prior to him crossing into canada and if not for the action, the heroic measures he took to apprehend him, it would be an entirely different and lengthy investigation going on today. >> state troopers involved in the manhunt were given a hero's welcome near the clinton correctional facility in dannemora, new york. they're breathing a huge sigh of relief now that sweat has been captured and richard matt was shot and killed on friday. stephanie gosk has the latest from