tv MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts MSNBC July 10, 2015 10:00am-12:01pm PDT
2000. it now sits inside the confederate relic room and military museum. the flagpole itself set to come down in just under an hour. live look there at the state house grounds are. emotional moment for some and as many as 10,000 people filled the area surrounding the capitol for a chance to witness history. but those who have been fighting for this moment it was a day they thought they would never see. >> i didn't expect it to be that emotional. amazing. this is such a blessing to the people in south carolina. >> this is going to help people feel better about themselves and will also we hope will force the members of our general assembly to disengage themselves with the confederate mindset which is one of unfairness. >> president obama also reacting today tweeting this. south carolina taking down the confederate flag. a signal of good will and healing. and a meaningful step toward a better future. it want to bring you some breaking news involving the
shooter involved with the emanuel nine. for that we go to pete williams for that latest breaking detail. >> well, this is a dramatic development here because one of the big questions has been whether dylann roof has been accuse of firing the fatal shots at the church on june 17th legally bought the gun he used. today the fbi director here james comey, just said that under february rules dylann roof should not have been sold that gun, should not have been allowed to buy it. he outlined a series of missteps or oddly missed opportunities to disqualify dylann roof from buying the gun. in the simplest way to explain it here's the deal. when you go to buy a gun as dylann roof did on april 11th at a gun store in west columbia south carolina, you fill out the forms, the gun dealer submits it to the fbi for checking.
and the fbi has three days to see whether there's anything disqualifying and if they find it the gun sale can't go through. if the fbi can't find something in three days then the gun deal goes ahead and, in fact dylann roof did buy the gun on april 16th, on thursday. what the fbi now says is that through a series of missteps faulty data that the fbi had to work with the officer who -- the fbi background investigator that was looking at the gun sale did not know that when dylann roof was arrested on april 11th -- arrested in march, rather, he had drugs, illegal drugs in his possession. the fbi says if the examiner had known that under fbi rules, the gun sale would not have been allowed because the fbi would consider that to be evidence under federal law that you were
unlawful user of a drug. but that was never in the system. and for that reason the gun sale was allowed to go ahead. so he says fbi director comey says fbi officials in south carolina are now meeting with members of the victims' families from the church shooting to explain this to them. he says that it is a heart sick thing for him, a gut wrenching thing, very painful for the fbi to have discovered and he says he discovered this just last night. now, you know this issue of whether dylann roof should legally have been allowed to buy the gun has been something that's been examined in detail for weeks now. and it was just last night, comey says that he was inform of this series of problems that the gun sale should not have gone through. >> all right, pete williams with that breaking news at the fbi disclosing the gun sold to dylann roof was sold illegally.
pete williams thank you for that. this breaking news coming the other end where there is big breaking news this morning from columbia, south carolina there where that flag has come down. nbc's craig melvin south carolina native was there. interesting to hear developments when it comes to the very reason why that flag was taken down in the first place, craig. >> yeah, you know, that information that pete just broke there, that's certainly something that folks here are going to be talking about for some time. and the gun shop that he mentioned, francis, isn't 20 minutes, if that 20 minutes from where we stand right now. as you indicated, the flagpole itself behind me set to be removed about an hour from now. at this point it's still unclear whether officials here the state house, are simply going to put grass over it or what they're going to do with that space. but the ceremony itself this morning, shortly after 10:00 a.m., it was short. it was simple. it was somber.
governor nikki haley flinkcky halilley flanked by two past governors and some of the victims' families as well lined the steps of the state house as members of the department of public safety detail walked up -- excuse me marched up to the pole and took it down. and right now we can tell you that the flag itself is in the confederate relic museum. it is about six blocks from where we stand. but as the flag came down roughly 9, 10,000 people lined the streets here. some of them openly weeping. some of them singing. some folks chanting, as well. the chants before the flag came down were "take it down take it down." the chants after the flag was down, "usa usa." governor nikki haley this morning spoke exclusionvely to matt lauer on "today." >> no one should ever drive by the state house and feel pain
no one should ever drive by the state house and feel they don't belong. i think this is a hopeful day for south carolina. this is a day we can say with ve come together as a state. >> it was a woman that spoke with my friend and colleague joy reid who said she can now come to the state house. for years she wouldn't step foot on these grounds because the flag was such an insult to her and suchen insult to a lot of folks. however, i do think there is a bit of misconception out there all of a sudden confederate battle flag is going to disappear here in south carolina. i can tell you as i drove in from the airport last night there was a dive ball on the left side of the street confederate flag waving out front. there were a number of flags out here at the ceremony. pickup truck two blocks down the road just saw it ten minutes ago, the confederate battle flag isn't gone but it will no longer fly on the state house grounds for the first time francis, as you know in more than 50 years.
>> interesting in your reporting earlier, craig you said that governor haley instructed her staffers to answer the phone. at great day here in south carolina. i actually called and certainly we know that's been her motto. it's a new day in south carolina. at great day in south carolina indeed as you have witnessed. nbc's krig melvincraig melvin, thank you for the update. i want to bring in the granddaughter of one of the mother emanuel nine. pastor daniel l. simmons sr. i can just imagine as you were watching this today what a pivotal moment especially for you, knowing that it is because of your loved one and the loss of your loved one and that's the reason why we're here now. >> hi. thank you. >> a lot of people there in south carolina this was something they thought they would never see. and people inand politicians say it was because of the mother emanuel nine and i want you to
listen what south carolina congressman sanford told my colleague craig melvin this morning. >> it took really the actions of those nine families i mean they're sort of super human rather glorious level of grace, miraculous level of grace, that's what created the vacuum that really changed the confederate flag. >> under that grace was forgiveness, for yourself, for other family members, as well for the loss of your grandfather. what's the reaction to you and other families that when you hear that -- that's the reason why we're having this historic moment? >> it just confirms what we already believe, that god really allowed what he hated to see to accomplish what he loves to see, which is all of his people loving each other. >> and i want to show you here you helped create the hate won't win. that social media campaign in the aftermath of the shooting.
the president and the first lady made this t-shirt famous. and knowing that that is part of this movement and it really is just a start, i'm sure as you were watching that flag go down. >> oh, yeah the campaign is going great. we're seeing a lot of people going out and making a special effort to show love to someone who is different from them. we just got our website up yesterday called "hate won't win movement" dotcom. things are picking up. t-shirts are available now so people can purchase them. but the main thing for us is that, you know we're challenging society to change itself. and what we really want is for people to go out there and show some love to people who are different or to people who are empty or to people who don't know how to love. >> as you're with your family members remembering your grandfather and talking fondly about him. what do you think he would be
saying too you now, knowing that this is what's happened and this is the day we're at? >> honestly i don't think my grandfather would have preferred any other way to go. for the confederate flag to come down in his honor and for his community that he loves so much and his church and his family to be able to come together and really really difficult times, i think he would be proud of everyone. >> i'm sure proud of you, too, of your efforts and speaking so fondly of him. alana, simmons, thank you for the time. we appreciate it. >> thank you. there are still about half dozen state flags that have confederate themes and those are all the focus of our bing pulse question today. this is what we're asking you. with the removal of the confederate flag in south carolina lead to changes in other state flags? invite you to vote. go to pulse.msnbc.com. we will bring you those results later in this hour. and now to breaking news to report. the head of the government's office of personal management
has resigned in the wake of one of the largest security breaches in u.s. history. catheriner catherine archuleta is stepping down one day after she vowed to fight for her job. there were bipartisan calls for her firing after the massive data threat their personal information stolen. house oversight committee chair, saying, quote, this is the absolute right call. this should have been addressed much much sooner but i a appreciate the president doing what's best now. joining me live from the white house, alex no signs the president had lost confidence in archuleta and she herself said she was committed to do her work. what has changed here? >> that's right. it was just 16 hours ago that archuleta said she had no plans to resigned, she was committed to her work. i think this is rec cog anything of the pressure she was under
and how big the data breach was. 21.5 million people. it's almost 1 in every 15 americans. she submitted her resignation this morning to the president who accepted it. she will be out by the end of the day. this is a quick turn around for the. administration which has in the past been somewhat reluctant to push people out. vormer va secretary, secret service administrator, they waited a little bit. they were beginning to get mounting calls from mark warner from virginia which stayed with a lot of federal employees, a lot of federal contractors yesterday evening calling on her to resign. and i think this is a recognition they say that it's time to put somebody new in and try to put this behind them and move on. >> you heard the comments them saying this is the absolute right call and what he mentioned about the -- when you have that democratic adam schiff with a similar response saying the decision was the right one. so what's happening next? specifically about security or
leadership changes going forward? >> right. well, they've already announced a replacement. beth colbert, deputy director will step in as actor director. and i expect we will hear more from the white house and the administration about cyber security. this is just the latest in a long string of breaches that we've seen both in the government and the private sector. several government officials pointing fingers potentially at china. so i think we're going to see definitely a better emphasis bigger emphasis on trying to lock these things down. >> especially when you think about what's being compromised here. social security numbers, other sensitive data. and initial reports that china could have been behind that breach here. so now, you know what else are we hearing as far as how that happened, especially when we're talking about the millions 20 million people effected? >> well, one of the incredible things here is that how long the attackers were able to be inside the system in the first attack it took them a year until it was identified. a second attack that was only
discovered after they uncovered the first attack. which leaves questions about if anything was left behind potential malware that could be exploited in the future. phishing schemes. this is just the beginning of investigators now going in and trying to understand how much damage was done and what kind of problems there might be in the future resulting from this attack. >> and sealing whatever cracks they find, if they find them. thank you for the update. appreciate seeing you. >> thanks. developing now, a parade of champions in new york city right now. mayor bill de blasio is hosting a ceremony to honor the u.s. women's soccer team. as you can imagine thousands of people lined up to celebrate the world cup winners at a parade that wrapped up last hour. and they certainly deserved all the attention. you remember when they beat japan sunday winning their first world cup since 1999. all eyes now on whether they will beat the new york yankees when it comes to all confetti out there. they have the top spot with more
than 56 tons after the world series win in 2009. krystal ball is cohost of "the cycle" and she is at that ceremony at city hall being kicked off right now. i'm sure everybody now just as revved up as when that parade started. can you hear me? >> yes. sorry, francis. it's loud here. they are just now bringing out the team to wild cheers. everybody has got their phones out, snapping photos here at city hall where they've been waiting since 9:00 a.m. for this exact moment. as the team as the world championship team, makes their entrance. they already heard sbro duthtory remarks from mayor bill de blasio reminded this crowd of the historic nature of this parade that's being the first women's sports team to be honored here with a ticker tape parade and, of course mayor
bill de blasio also reminded us that their win represented a reminder of the power of women. it's really been a girl power celebration here. in terms of the ceremony this is what we expect. we do expect abby wombach and carli lloyd to speak. we expect the mayor to present a key to the city to those incredible ladies. not only are they the first women sports team to receive this monday honor but you have to go back to 1984 to mary lou rhett retton and the other olympic medalists. i will remind you, francis, the very first ticker tape parade was a celebration of lady lady liberty. it was for the statue of liberty dedication. this is a historic incredible day, and people are v loing it. >> of course part of the ceremony, they're also going to get a key to the city, new york city. let you get back to the
celebrations there. check back in with you later on. thank you so much. of course you can catch more of "the cycle" at 3:00 p.m. eastern time and on krystal clear weekdays wednesdays i should say, at 11:00 a.m. eastern time. coming up with a confederate flag coming down from south carolina state house grounds republican governor nikki haley emerged as a gop star. i'll ask chuck todd about her potential 2016 prospects. and we continue to follow the breaking developments about the gun sold in charleston shooter dylann roof. word just in from the fbi the gun was sold illegally to dylann roof. a series of missteps leading up to that that including illegal drugs in his possession when he purchased the gun. that was known, that gun should have never been sold to him. again, out of fbi, gun sold illegally to charleston church shooter dylann roof, accused. [ school bell rings ] ♪ ♪ [ female announcer ] everything kids touch at school sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox
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governor nikki haley not only helped remove the confederate flag from state capitol, she boosted her own political star in the process. "today" show's matt lauer asked her if it has put her in a different political orbit. she mostly side stepped that question however, here's how she ended that response. >> i don't want this to go away quickly. i want people to remember what today feels like and know that anything is possible. i'll keep my focus on that. >> chuck todd is editor of "meet the press" and this sunday his guest is nikki haley. we're going to talk about governor haley, too, but first with this breaking news coming out of washington that in the wake of that largest security breach here in the united states history, the director of opm resigned archuleta. what a 360 from 24 hours ago
when she was saying you know what, i'm not going anywhere i'm sticking around now she's gone. >> there is a playbook -- washington playbook when you deal with sort of a growing fire storm. we saw it with the veterans administration when general shinseki was fired. you saw it here. you saw it with the secret service. the reason you see what is essentially the scapegoating way out of a crisis is this is a public relations attempt to quiet down chatter. you hand the media something to focus on. a resignation. and then they can supposedly focus on resolving the problem. my frustration watching this is i feel like it is such an habitual thing and this issue of cyber insecurity seems to me this issue is much bigger than sitting here and blaming the head of opm. it seems as if we have a much larger cyber insecurity problem in the government as a whole. and where is this you know instead of scapegoating and
blame game where's the focus on the problem itself. and sometimes you wonder and i hope we don't fall into this trap in the press, where, oh, well, they fired somebody problem solved. >> right. >> no, problem is not solved. >> when we talk about that when it comes to loopholing the system, let's talk about also the fbi with the director of james comey coming out and especially with this revelation that dylann roof the charleston church accused shooter here had been arrested for narcotics possession in february. and when it comes to the actual database it should have been input i'd he was arrested on that possession of narcotics. somehow that slipped through the system. ultimately the fbi saying the gun was sold illegally to him. so where does that factor in now on where this gun control debate goes? >> look that's a separate issue issue. oddly, this could give fodder to sort of the more crowd that says if the government could just follow the law, then this is not about needing more laws. this is about government officials implementing the law.
and enforcing the law. and in this case this is a lack of implementation but this has been a problem with the entire background check system is that there are too many ways for things to fall through the cracks. perhaps is there -- are we asking the system to do too much at one time? does the waiting period need to be longer? i think it could create a conversation on that front. but the background check system itself, when everybody is properly input i'dted can work. but what goes into the system? this has been part of it when it comes to the mental health situation. what mental health records get into the system which don't? >> all right. now to nikki haley. a lot of people talking about her, this political star and how it possibly may be rising possible vp here. and interesting to note the irony, especially when it comes to the value of the party. when she kind of looked ahead, beyond her state, nationally, she was criticized for that.
when she focused on the state of south carolina that's when everybody around the nation is starting to pay attention. >> you know what it's a good lesson for anybody -- any elected official to has national ambitions. best way to move up the ladder do your job well. focus on your job at the time. don't keep peeking at the next step. don't get caught peeking at the next step. you could say she rushed things a little bit and it wasn't just her. it was a lot of people going, look at this. first indian-american woman governor in the south, republican, she's going to be a rising star. so people try to make these figures stars before they've earned it. now here she is in her second term and this is a case where she met a moment of crisis landed on her desk she met the moment, got the national spotlight, and i think now, you know, who knows what the republican nominee come june of '16 is going to need but would it shock -- would it shock anybody, need a woman candidate,
a woman executive who has dealt with tricky diversity issues in her own state and at a time when the republican party may need that. so a lot will depend on what the nominee is going to need but i think she will be very high on the short list. >> you can ask that on sunday when she's your guest? >> we might get into that. we'll see. >> nbc's chuck todd. thank you. be sure to watch chuck on "meet the press" on sunday here on nbc. americans. we're living longer than ever. as we age, certain nutrients... ...become especially important. from the makers of one a day fifty-plus. new one a day proactive sixty-five plus. with high potency vitamin b12... ...and more vitamin d. [ male announcer ] we know they're out there. you can't always see them. but it's our job to find them. the answers. the solutions. the innovations. all waiting to help us build something better.
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it. the fbi saying because of the breakdown in their background check system that he was able to buy that. essentially saying that when he was arrested a few months before a possession of narcotics, that should be input in the criminal database and somehow that slipped through the cracks. to rel act on this information, the latest breaking news there, i want to bring back alana simmons, the granddaughter of one of the emanuel nine. her grandfather was daniel simmons sr. now that you're hearing about this, tell me your reaction when you hear that he shouldn't have been able to ghaet gun legally in the first place. >> well, gun control has always been an issue, and we appreciate the fbi for notifying the families of the victims before anyone else and we also want to aid them in continuing their investigation. however, the gun control issue in this situation is compare to
the real issue what ch is why he wanted to do what he wanted to do with the gun. >> does that change anything at all for you? the moment we heard from you and other family members when he had his first court appearance, right away the words out of families' mouths was forgiveness. we forgive you. does it change anything? >> absolutely not. what happened had already happened. and there's nothing that we can really do about that but stop it from happening again. and, again, like i mentioned in the interview before there are plenty of policies that can be put into place and plenty of political gestures that can be put into place to aid us but what we really need is for the community to get out there and to stop people from doing things like this by changing what's in their hearts. >> sure. >> they're not going to be able to stop everybody who wants to kill somebody from getting a
gun. what we need to do is stop people from wanting to kill other people. >> but can you see how some who are gun rights advocates are saying, you know what government look at this situation. you could have prevented him from get that gun if you had your background checks in check itself. look at that. you know and this is a perfect example of that in their fight. >> well, we believe god allowed this to happen for a bigger purpose. so i don't think there's anything that the government could have did to stop what god wanted to happen. >> interesting viewpoint where we see the forgiveness that we saw so early on. alana simmons, thank you so much and glad to have you talking about as we cover the breaking developments on this. >> thank you fshlgs still. still to come here, asking one of the city's leader what's today's historic lowering means moving forward.
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we're back with more on breaking developments about the gun sold to charleston shooter dylann roof. the gun was sold to roof illegally. joining me on the phone, dan gross, president of the brady campaign to prevent gun violence. sir, i want to read to you something that the fbi director said when he came out with this information. he said this case rips out all of our hearts but the thought that an error on our part is connected to a gun this person used to slaughter these people is very painful to us. knowing that the failures in the gun purchase screening system enabled dylann roof to buy the weapon used in the attack. how much of this is a disappointment to you, sir? >> obviously incredibly tragic and it's beyond disappointing when lives are lost that could have been prevented through brady background check that's been effective 2.4 million times at gun stores, federally licensed dealers across the country.
the system obviously isn't flawless and that imperfection is often exacerbated by gun dealers that we call bad apple gun dealers that don't follow the system and skirt the law and put guns into dangerous hands. but the important thing to remember is, you know, this is an incredibly effective way, these background checks, it's proven in terms of keeping guns out of the wrong hands and, you know, in an instant where it may not have worked to the perfection that we would have liked, you know that certainly shouldn't diminish our resolve to expand those background checks every day out of the hands of 170 felons to gun shows and online. and i'm sure the gun lobby is going to try and use this as an excuse to not want to expand background checks and that would make it even more tragic. >> i want to ask you about that especially when it comes to gun rights advocates.
make you and your efforts and your mission and cause more sdmi. >> no, as long as we're very clear in the messaging, which we have been. the bottom line is the brady background checks are incredibly effective. they prevented 2.4 million sales to printed purchases, convicted felons. >> this was a loophole from the fbi, with the director himself calling it a failure on their part. >> yeah. you know that's the comment of the director of the fbi. and, you know it should certainly be examined. but one failure, if that's what it proves to be should not be a condemnation of the whole system that has been incredibly effective. and we just need to make sure that, you noeshsing and you talk about gun rights advocate. the only person -- the only people advocating against brady background checks are people who leave believe in the rights of
convicted felon and domestic abusers and other purchases to buy guns. >> talk to me when it comes to this. some say, okay it's not as complicated as it may seen when it comes to background checks. this is referring to an arrest. when it comes to his narcotics possession in february. a few months ago. that should have been inputted, you know in the criminal database and was not the p director of the fbi saying that it was not properly entered in the federal -- just mishandled by an analyst. >> yeah. i mean obviously there are names that should be in the national instant check system that aren't. and this could be a tragic example of it. but again, that should not be used as an excuse to not do everything that we can possibly do to keep guns out of the hands of the people that are already in that system. >> all right. dan gross, appreciate your perspective as we continue to follow this story, breaking information the gun was sold to
dylann roof illegally according to the fbi. >> thanks francis. this all comes during an historic day for the state of south carolina. the flagpole that held the confederate flag is set to be removed at the top of the hour. it was a historic moment this morning when that flag was removed. here's a look back at some of this morning's iconic moments. >> reporter: this is a story about action. this is a story about the history of south carolina that forever showed the state of south carolina what love and forgiveness looks like.
from that powerful moment bring you today's bing pulse question. we're asking you, will the removal of the confederate flag in south carolina lead to changes in other state flags with confederate themes? here's a scoreboard of how you have been voting so far since we launched at the top of the hour. 91% of you say yes. that will happen. only 9% say no. so overwhelming close to 100% with 91 saying yes. keep voting, pulse.msnbc.com. behold, these are two wind turbines. can you spot the difference? the wind farm on the right was created using digital models and real world location-based specs that taught it
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breaches in u.s. history. key white house official we resigned. director of office of personnel management, catherine archuleta. she is stepping down one day after she was vowing to keep her job. this after that massive data breach that effected 20 million americans with their personal information, medical history social security information breached in that security breach as well. on to a major medical story. the fda is warning anyone who takes painkillers, codeld medicine, you may be taking a bigger risk that than you realize. advil, aleve, and other over the counter ansaids have long warned they might increase the risk of heart attack or stroke. now the fda says those drug s do increase your risk. one agency doctor's warning, quote, everyone may be at risk even people without an underlying risk for cardiovascular disease. drugs taken by millions more dangerous than first realized. joining me now is dr. dan simon,
cardiologist at the university hospital case medical center and also the president of the herrington heart and vascular institute. doctor, thank you for being with us here to put perspective with this. and let's do that with some numbers. in 2013 americans bought more than 275 million boxes of over the counter ansaids, totally $1.7 billion in sales. so how much -- how alarmed should we be about this? >> i think we really need to be very careful about being aliving roomed today. we've had patients calling us since early this morning. i think it's very important for viewers to understand that the absolute increase in risk is very, very low. so the ansaid trial is collaborative from oxford published the definitive paper in 2013 in lancet looked at 250,000 patients and nearly 75 studies. what we learned from this
observation is that the risk indeed is quite low. there are about three axis events per thousand patient years of use of the drug. the absolute risk is really quite low and is largely restricted to patients who take high dose ansaids. that's 2400 milligrams of ibuprofen, thousand milligrams of adviler. in fact, it's been said that 99% of the episodes of increased risk occur actually in that very high dose group. that's far higher doses than the average patient uses in a given day. >> short of really counting our intake here, they posted an information about nsaid. saying quote, today we know that the risk of heart attack and stroke may occur early in treatment, even with the first weeks. there is no period shown when you are at risk. for those of us who just want
pain relief here and there, how do we go about doing that and how much caution should we consider? >> yeah, i think that's a great question. i would say the following. first, of course is that one can try to use nonnsaid pain medication like tylenol. that's always a good approach. physical therapy, local apply topical medications can be useful. it's really worth a conversation with your doctor. we believe and we certainly have been telling our patients that the isolated use of low-dose nsaids such as aleve, 220 milligrams twice a day is low risk and certainly lower risk than i think would be suggested by the fda advisory. i think many of us are concerned about the advisory. it's very important to point out to your viewers this is not the result of a new study that just came out. this arthritis advisory group was convened in february of 2014.
the largest definitive study i cited was published in lancet in 2013. this is a reinterpretation of the data by a limited advisory group. i think it's very important to stress to your viewers today, please contact your physicians. don't g b. alarmed. the absolute risk is low. >> all right. cardiologist dan simon. thank you very much for that. >> thank you. the controversy over the confederate flag is alive and well and the u.s. house of representatives will get an update in three minutes. if you're running a business legalzoom has your back.
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the controversy over the confederate flag is an i live and well in the u.s. house of representatives. today at least two house members took to the floor, part of a major uproar against the display of the flag that started thursday and that issue a gop amendment that would have reversed a previous decision to remove all flags from graves and gift shops on federal land. >> signs of treason, signs of
hate signs of racism have no place in the united states of america's halls and should come down. >> republican leadership should be ashamed for associating themselves with this intolerance. they should regulate it to museums and the ashbin of history. >> kelly o'donnell joins me live from washington now. kelly, definitely nowhere near the shouting, the yelling, the uproar of yesterday and spending bill it was attached to was pulled and any sign that is a resolution is near? >> reporter: there is no path forward. house speaker john boehner suggested the idea of getting democrats an republicans to work together to try to look for a solution. and when we talked to democrats yesterday, they shot that down pretty quickly saying when's left to talk about? they feel very strongly that this symbol the confederate flag the battle flag should not be permitted in these
federal outlets and some of the southern republicans that pressed for it saying what they were trying to do is put into law what had been existing national park practice that where the national park service owns some cemeteries where there are civil war era dead buried and they would use small flags, not racing it on a flag pole but decorating the grave site on a particular day to commemorate confederate soldiers. for that limited purpose they wanted this put into law. as you saw and we have reported that was another flashpoint in this whole debate over the use of that emblem and some democrats are now saying they want to see the mississippi state flag which includes the confederate battle flag as part of its overall emblem also removed from the capitol. in limited places. like member who represents mississippi could choose to put that flag in front of his ore hr office but not public spaces and
there's dimensions to be talked about where people have concerns about even statues that are in the capitol that go back to the confederate era. the unity around the flag the confederate battle flag and some state flags that use that same imagery. no easy answer. one of theishes for democrats is how to get something accomplished here when republicans control the house and that's why some of the ideas put forward were sort of kind of sent to the -- what's the dustbin and put to committee so lots of talk about this. a formal step remains unclear. francis in. >> the frag debate with the south carolina state grounds over and certainly there not over with the capitol hill. kelly o'donnell, thank you very much. when we come back returning to the top story. the historic removal of the confederate flag from the state house in south carolina. a form ore govern nor of the state that presided over another
move of the flag and the news thatdy nann roof legally bought the gun he used in the massacre in charleston. the fallout of the data breach of the opm. a resignation there. the women's national team honored with a ticker tape parade through the canyon of heroes. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? vo: today's the day. more and more people with type 2 diabetes are learning about long-acting levemir®.
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benny's the oldest dog in the shelter. he needed help all day so i adopted him. when my back pain flared up, we both felt it. i tried tylenol but it was 6 pills a day. with aleve it's just two pills, all day. now i'm back! aleve. all day strong. hi there. i'm francis rivera in for thomas roberts and starting this hour in south carolina where the flag pole that held the confederate battle flag for 15 years will be removed. this morning, the flag itself was taken down and a short but emotional ceremony by an honor guard from the department of public safety. up to 10,000 people filled the grounds there to witness history. and among them, the families of the mother emanuel nine stood on the steps with governor nikki
haley and other state leaders. i spoke to the granddaughter of pastor simmons sr. and shared her thoughts on what her grandfather would think of this day. >> i don't think my grandfather would have preferred any other way to go. for the confederate flag to come down, in his honor, and for his community that he loved so much and his church and his family to be able to come together and really really difficult times, i think he would be proud of everyone. >> cheers from the capitol lawn may be shared by disappointment and grief today, though. we are learning that the suspected charleston shooter should not have been able to buy the gun he used to kill the nine people. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams joins us here to explain and in the words of the fbi's director pete this was a failure in the screening system. >> reporter: the fbi director says a number of missteps here that should have stopped this sale that he was not legally
qualified to buy a gun because under fbi rules the fbi would deny a gun sale to someone who was arrested and admits possessing an illegal drug which is what happened to dylann roof in late february when he was arrested with a controlled substance in his pocket. buying a gun on april 11th he filled out the forms. referred to an examiner on monday april 13th. who started to look into his criminal background. saw that he had a rap sheet in lexington county south carolina, called the sheriff's office there and told it's not our case. you need to call the columbia police department. so she pulled up following the normal rules the list of law enforcement organizations and lexington county south carolina, and saw there wasn't a columbia police department but was a west columbia police department. she called there and she said it is not our case.
she called the lexington county prosecutor. didn't hear back so she put the case into -- she also checked the court records and saw no disposition, no end, no conviction on this drug charge. so she put it into delayed status and under federal law the fbi has three days to block a sale and if the end of those three days they can't find a reason to block it the gun sale can go through. that's what happened here. roof went back to the gun store on the following thursday and then bought the gun because the fbi hadn't stopped it. but what the fbi director says is there were a number of missteps here that the sale should not have gone through and directed fbi agents in south carolina to meet with family members of those who were killed in the church in mid-june and explain to them what happened. >> yeah. indicated that the data either not properly entered or mishandled. thank you for joining me with
that update. appreciate it. and joining me now outside the state house in columbia, craig melvin. craig, you saw that flag go down. any moment now the flagpole should be coming down. >> reporter: yeah. you know what, francis. as promised you can probably hear this machine that's going to be used as well revving up. as promised the folks here are getting ready to take down the flag pole itself. they said they were going to start that process at 2:00. we do not know precisely how long the process itself is going to take. nor do we know what's going to happen to the flag pole itself. back in 2000 there was a fair amount of controversy not just over the fact that the flag itself was moved from the state house dome to the south lawn but the set-up that you are watching being dismantled here, the set-up cost roughly $30. and there are a number of folk
who is question why it needed to eded cost so much back then and not clear what's going to happen to this area of the state house, as well, whether they're going to put something else in its place or whether they're just going to grass it over but the flag pole being removed comes just four hours after that short solemn ceremony when members of the department of public safety's detail, the same detail that was used at the funeral one of the charleston nine state senator pinckney's funeral, those same folks took down that flag and this is not going to be a ceremony like that. there are a few dozen folks who have gathered to see the flag pole itself taken down. nothing like the 10,000 or so people that we saw crowd the streets this morning. >> even with that craig, the ceremony as i watched it this morning, certainly, without pomp, without circumstance. but powerful in itself.
given the crowds the number of people there, and also the state leaders that were there. side by side. and how poignant and powerful that was as you watched it come down. >> reporter: yeah. you know you had folks weeping, openly weeping. and you had a governor who was crying. you had a former governor wipeing away tears and state reps doing just the same. a lot of folks, part of that you know especially for folks who have been in the legislature here for 20 years, that i remember what 2000 was like. that i remember how personal some of the attacks became how divided this state was. and the compromise that no one really liked. a lot of those memories and those wounds were fresh and you couple that with the state that has been for several weeks now
grieving. after what happened in a church basement on a wednesday night. i mean this is -- this is for a lot of folks the culmination of that. but, you know we heard from one of the victim's family members saying to us in the 12:00 hour if i had to choose between that confederate battle flag and my sister i would certainly choose my sister. so it doesn't end the grieving. but it does seem to be helping a state heal as again, you hear this machine rev up behind me to take down the flag pole francis. >> all right. we'll continue to watch that craig. appreciate the update there. as this is a pivotal moment. certainly a long road to today's historic moment particularly over the last 15 years when the confederate flag first taken down from the capitol dome and placed on the capitol grounds. the naacp and other organizations had an economic boycott of the state because of the flag and earlier today leaders of a south carolina naacp claimed victory.
>> it came down because economically we put a stronghold on the state of south carolina. if you don't agree with us by the way, there never was a compromise. there never was a compromise. the officials of the state of south carolina decided we don't have to talk to those people. we'll make the decision for south carolina. and they did. >> that man you just heard from lonnie randolph, president of the south carolina naacp joins me now and janine dernon. calling for the flag's removal. thank you for joining us. lonnie, many people say it's a loss of the emanuel nine is the reason the flag went down a triumph over tragedy is a reason why. you said it started with the economic boycott that helped lead to this moment. why that as well?
>> well it's a combination of factors. and it is sad that we can -- we should -- we can even discuss the loss of nine lives, 500 years of life thereabouts, because of the hate that somebody associated with the confederacy. i'm almost speechless because, yes, things like this could have been prevented had this state and had states period in this country decided that they would disassociate themselves with the theory of white supremacy and i've heard the heritage arguments. but there's -- we tell a lot of untrue stories about the confederacy. the myth of the -- the mythology of the confederacy. they were no boy scouts. they were no every day people. these people killed 1 million
people in america. 1 million people because they couldn't have their way with controlling the lives of other people. so we need to put things into proper perspective and stop trying to put a dress on a pig. >> the flag pole is coming down following the flag that came down earlier this morning. charleston mayor joe riley spearheaded that march in 2000 and many said they thought they wouldn't see this day happen after the efforts back then did you still think that the fight could continue on with an ending like this? >> you know it is a long time coming. and, you know the -- in 2000 the south carolina legislature was having a very similar debate and just could not get there to go on the right side of history and mayor riley decided that he really wanted to take a stand on it and picked up the phone and
asked me to help organize it. i can gem as it was yesterday mayor riley, my daughter at 10 by his side with about 100 people leaving charleston and by the time we got to charleston several days later, there were thousands and thousands and thousands of people. and, even with that i mean it was a step. it came down from the dome. but as everyone knows, it was placed in front of the state house. so, it is a really long time coming. >> well certainly, and end of the flag being there, lonnie. and that debate. but of course, with the end of that comes a start. especially when it comes with state leaders and how to come to terms with the healing and race relations and the hurt your community suffered in the past few weeks. >> i did not hear the last part of your question but i heard you say something about race relation relations. we have to work on race relations because that's an area where south carolina and america
lied about how great race relations are in this country. and that's not true. race relations are bad because the leadership of this country and the leadership of this state has not done the things necessary to make things better. when you start talking about race relations, they try to associate that with you asking for something for people of color that less than standards. well, i don't think the good master put standards in one group of people. i don't think he put smarts in one group of people. all that people are asking for is an equal opportunity to participate in the system. and still today and as i said in an earlier interview we're celebrating the 14th amendment of the ratification of the -- 14th amendment to the united states constitution. that will tell you something because it still today equal opportunity does not make its way to every neighborhood. >> let me ask ginny about that.
talking about equal opportunity that needs to make the way to every neighborhood. how can that be done? >> well i think it's done by you know, we need to make sure that we don't just pretend like everything's great. charleston did come together and people in the state to unify and support each other. but we i think everybody in charleston is finding this is an a time to reflect on what we can do and we need to take some definite steps forward. we have a lot of work to do. there are lots of things we can do to make sure that there's opportunity for all starting with education which is a field i've been in for a very long time. education is obviously key. and being able to link people who need jobs to the jobs and that's, of course, linked to affordable housing and transportation. so you know mayors are in a position to get stuff done unlike, you know other bodies of the government. i think we need to take this opportunity to move forward in a serious way.
>> all right. hopefully the governor's mantra, a new day for south carolina. we appreciate your time. >> thank you. that brings us to what we have been asking our viewers over the last hour. will the removal of the confederate flag in south carolina lead to changes in other state flags with confederate themes? we have been asking you to vote and so far we are now at 78% of those of you say, yes. that's dropped from 91% before. now 22% say no. previously last check that was at 9% and invite you to keep voting. pulse.msnbc.com. more to come on this historic day in south carolina and more of your thoughts on the bing question and breaking news out of washington. katherine archuleta, the director of personnel management resigned telling president obama that she thought it's best to step aside and allow new leadership. >> she recognizes as the white house does that the urgent
challenges currently facing the office of personnel management require a manage we are a specialized set of skills and experiences. that's precisely why the president has accepted her resignation and assigned beth coburt to take on the responsibilities on an acting basis. >> this follows one of the largest government data breaches in u.s. history. hackers downloaded social security numbers and other sensitive data. it affected more than five times the 4.2 million the government first disclosed this year. up next back to breaking news unfolding in south carolina at this hour and the fbi saying today that suspected charleston shooter dylann roof should not have been able to buy the gun he used to kill nine people. we'll get reaction from a community leader. and these are live pictures from the state house in columbia. as you can see now, equipment there, crews are there.
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there are breaking development this is hour in south carolina. right now you are taking a live look at the state house in columbia, south carolina. the pole that carried the confederate flag is being removed. a live look from above as you can see these crews on ladders attaching a green strap to the flag pole that eventually will come down. keeping a close eye on that. this as thousands came out earlier to watch the flag come down. in a brief but very meaningful ceremony. this as we are learning dylann should not have been able to use
the gun he used to kill nine people. joining me is reverend darby. we appreciate you being with us. you were one of the clergy that presided over reverend pinckney's funeral. what is your take hearing the news that because of loopholes in the fbi's background check and failures in their screening system, that is the reason why dylann roof was able to get that gun that killed the people at ame? >> well i think it's a very unfortunate failing of the system needless to say. it could be said if the system was right he wouldn't have been able to get his hands on that weapon. we need laws and background checks for the united states and make sure that things are done in a proper way. i hope that this is something that's instructive for the oibfbi. >> knowing so much forgiveness and so much grace that we heard about especially in the initial days when we saudi landn roof make his court appearance
knowing this information that that could have been prevented and giving him that gun, is there any blame on your part? >> i don't think that blame is a matter of important right now at this point in time. the families elected to forgive and let justice run its course. the bottom line is that he did apparently and allegedly commit a crime so that needs to go through the system. >> the news on the shooting come comes the same day at the flag coming down outside the state house and literally an hour before they start working on this flag pole as the crews, we're now taking a live look at this if you can see this sir. they're going to pull that down. how's your take on knowing that just weeks after the loss of those nine this is the day that you're seeing now? >> yeah well it goes back to the hymn that president obama quoted in his message.
the lord moves in mysterious ways. horrific tragedy, unfortunately. but fortunately did have a good result hopefully, a symbol of division in our state is gone to move on. my hope is to make progress without folk getting killed to do it. >> you will be in church this sunday. what is going to be your message knowing that the removal of this flag is just a beginning of change for your state? what is the message to your congregants and your community? >> well, quite frankly, i'm at a meeting. i don't have the foggiest idea what my message will be but i think it will revolve around the need for action. the flag is one. what happens after the flag is important. and we'll probably talk about the need of vigilance of people of faith to make sure that in our state positived up with action on the education, criminal justice, quality of life employment business development and challenged
areas. all of those things i think are something that needs to be done. the church needs to advocate for those things. >> we have seen how everything is impacted on the community, in the state, as well. socially culturally morally coming to the discussion here but also economically. you had something to do with that co-drafting the economic sanctions against the state by the naacp. so, your take now that we have reached this point? >> i'm glad we have reached this point. we worked nearly 20 years to reach this point and i mopehope that it opens the door for more things to be done. if all that happens is pole is gone, and nothing else happens, it will be anti-climatic. hopefully enough lives change that people start to talk and continue to talk and begun and let that talk go in to action to benefit all south carolinans.
>> thank you. >> thank you. we'll keep you posted. meantime a key administration official steps down after yet another massive federal data breach. more than 20 million americans impacted. more than the about 5 million we initially thought. first new york city celebrates the world cup champs. the first ticker tape parade for a women's team and taking you to lower mont. that's next.
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to the side as the train is lifting it. of course, symbolic as well knowing that just hours ago the flag itself was removed and as we listen here, smaller crowd cheering compared to earlier today and a live look at that moments ago. see the crane there hoisting it over with a crew as they're guiding it and laying it to the ground. earlier up to 10,000 people filled the grounds. those same grounds to witness history with a flag taken down and in a very short ceremony emotional, powerful but without pomp, without circumstance. and this is the situation now as that pole has been removed. what will happen to it remains to be seen but, of course continue to follow that here on msnbc. now developing, a parade of champions in new york city. the mayor wrapped up hosting a ceremony to honor the u.s. women's soccer team and give them a key to the city.
thousands of people they lined up to celebrate the world cup winners at a parade and just wrapped up. the team deserves all the attention. the team won in thrilling fashion on sunday defeating japan 5-2 for the first world cup championship since 1999. nbc filed this report for us moments ago. >> reporter: hey there, francis. what we saw here today was history. as they just pointed out in the celebration here at city hall this is the first u.s. women's soccer team to win a world cup in this century. today they also became the first all-female team to be honored with a ticker tape parade. take a look at some of the pictures of earlier and see the confetti in the canyon of heroes. called that because ticker tape parades used to honor the likes of the troops returning from world war i or if apollo 11 astronauts and charles lindberg. a huge honor for these women
today of team usa were here today. of course ticker tape now obsolete on wall street. so it was shredded paper and confetti handed out by the city falling down on them. but they that didn't dampen anyone's spirits. huge, huge crowd to see hem here at city hall. at the end of the parade they had 2,000 seats available. within minutes of those being opened up to a lottery, they had 12,000 applications and the hottest ticket in town today. a lot of very proud new yorkers and proud americans out there, francis. >> i'm sure a lot of people out there celebrating, as well. well deserved. thank you very much for the update. in south carolina, the pole that held the confederate flag was just removed. that happened just moments ago. and then this --
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south carolina governor jim hodges, the governor when the confederate flag was brought down from the dome and taken to the capitol grounds. so governor hodges, thank you for being with me this afternoon. i have to ask you, as you were watching today's events here are you watching a different south carolina than you knew? >> i am francis. thank you for having me here. i think it's dramatically different than it was 15 years ago and certainly much different than it was 50 years ago. i stood with the governor on the steps today and i must admit i had a tear in my eye to watch what happened. i think it's a wonderful day for our state and i'm very proud of our people. >> well when you talk about 2000 and during that time you called this compromise that brought the flag to the capitol grounds fair. maybe fair then. not fair now. some would argue. why did it take this tragedy and nine lives lost in charleston inside their church for this to finally happen?
>> you know i don't know. 15 years ago i can tell you that the major goal we had at the time was to get it out of the legislature chambers and off the capitol dome and get a martin luther king holiday. we wanted to see something else done, but i'll tell you what happened i think was that not only the deaths of the nine people, but the grace shown by the family members and the forgiveness and love they showed, i think was a catalyst for people to reexamine this issue and to try to come together and do something important which we did. it was -- it's been an awful couple of weeks as you can imagine for all of us but the one ray of sunshine in this i think is the action that took place yesterday and today with respect to the confederate flag. my hope is to propel us to do other things on health care and education and the affordability of college which are critical for us to have the type of
future which i think south carolina is destined to have. >> you talk about a host of other things and not to be forgotten is economically here the impact especially with the boycott for the last decade the naacp lifting that. and also it's moratorium on predetermined regional and post-season competitions in south carolina. talk about the effect that's going to have on the state, as well. >> well i'm sure it's going to have some positive effect. the impact of the economic boycott is frankly, hard to measure. i think what's most important to people here is to resolve an issue that separated us in a way that wasn't healthy for the state. but clearly, the image of south carolina has received a well deserved boost for how we have handled the aftermath of this charleston tragedy and now the flag issue. that can't help but to reap economic def did he understand for us, as well. >> with prevention and lessons
learned, i have to ask you about the latest revelations from the fbi and the director of flatly calling it a failure in the system and the checks and howdy landn roof went about getting the gun and illegal, that the loopholes were able to let him by the gun that killed the e emanuel nine. your take on that sir? >> i think more needs to be done about guns in this country and disturbing to see someone like dylann roof get access of the guns and proud of the president to spoke and brought up the gun issue in the course of the discussion at e moonall. this is a thing we have talked about for a long time and need to do something about and much like we in south carolina talked about resolving the flag issue and have finally done something about it. >> all right. former south carolina governor hodges, we appreciate it. thank you so much. >> thanks francis. and the focus of today's pulse question about confederate themed state flags and asking you, will the removal of the
confederate flag in south carolina lead to changes in other state flags with confederate themes? this is how we look with a drop overall we have been seeing and a rise. 82% from the last check. it was in the 90s. as far as those who say yes, 82% now. and those at no at 18%. head to pulse.msnbc.com to join the conversation and keep the votes coming in. as we mentioned earlier, president obama has accepted the rezsignation of the kathleen archuleta and under her leadership hackers accessed social security numbers, health histories or other highly sensitive data from opm's databases and more than 21 million americans affected. we have also now learned that the crooks inside u.s. government computer networks almost a year before they were caught. i'm joined by shawn henry, president of crowd strike services and former executive director of the fbi. thank you, for being with me
shawn. separate but related breaches coming to this. how much of a shock is that to you hearing about this that these hackers had that much access to sensitive information but a year going around snooping in with that and the fact that when the number jumped from about 5 million to now 20. >> yeah. none of that shocks me francis. in terms of the length of time to discover. i work in corporate networks all the time doing incident response responses. in the bureau and crowd strike it is not unusual for an adversary in a network for months or years, plural but without being detected. that happens regularly. in terms of the number increasing from 4 million to 16 million to more than 20 million, it's actually very typical in the course of the incident response for new information to come out. these are very long term types of investigations. there's a lot of information to go through and to do a damage assessment like's being done now by opm takes time and those
numbers will change. >> we are seeing what's happening when you have the director archuleta saying 24 hours ago, i'm sticking around and staying in this seat and then now stepping down. what needs to happen as far as prevention for this happening again and leadership perspective and what needs to change. >> i think one of the biggest issues is recognizing prevention prevention, hoping for prevention is not the right strategy here. put network defenses in place and a lot of things that can be done. there's a whole host of things to layer your defenses to better protect and understanding that you're not going to prevent all of those attacks and that you have to move towards better detention and then remediation. if you can detect it in a couple of hours or even a day or so you can quickly remediate and immediate yaltmediate the consequences. if the bad guys in there for a period of time bad things happen. >> talk about bad guys and
terror threats especially coming the recent arrests made as far as those leading up to the fourth of july and those threats, really interesting now, especially knowing how the government is looking at encryptions and go around it. i have what's app and i text my mother back and forth out of the country but how are we going to go about going into that as kind of another way for them to communicate and possibly plan these attacks? >> so this is a very very serious issue right now and i watch director and listened to the statements and what's important for u.s. citizens to understand the totality of what's happening here. the director saying that for many years the fbi and others infiltrate and deter these types of attacks by getting inside and actually arresting people before they've been able to take violent actions against americans. we haven't had a significant -- >> are we close in this case? we knew that there was a possibility. everybody's saying fourth of july we knew it. were we really close to that?
>> i think that the fbi director said that there were attacks he believed to be carried out on july fourth. the issue is the fbi doesn't have the resources to go on indefinitely and follow all the people that are going to attack. >> that's disheartening. also when we're hearing the hit they're taking coming to the responsibility of the loopholes with dylann roof and the background checks and him getting that gun. thank you so much for breaking that down for us. we appreciate your time. up next a doctor who inflicted excessive cancer treatments on hundreds of people, many who didn't have cancer. innocenced to 45 years. many of the patients say that's not enough. >> it wasn't enough. it wasn't enough time. >> what were you expecting? what were you expecting? >> more. and i don't know how much would have been enough. in needs actually helps to support your muscle health? boost® high
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detroit area cancer doctor that put patients through treatments to collect millions is sentenced to 45 years in prison and some of the 533 victims didn't even have the disease. dr. fata facing up to 175 years behind bars and he begged for mercy and leniency from the court. and some of fata's former patients and family members who attended say he got just that. >> 45 years. 45 years for the lives that he took. i mean my husband's going to have more than 45 years of whatever's going on in his system. am i going to get 45 years with him? >> we expected more years. to the sentence and it's not enough justice in our minds. >> nbc news senior legal investigative correspondent is following this story. cynthia, thanks for being with us. it's astounding the deception
here and consider people vulnerable because they think they're sick and by the hundreds. >> yeah. it's shocking because many of the people didn't have cancer. and yet, they went through cancer treatment, chemotherapy and other poisonous treatments because dr. fata told them they needed it. the prosecutor asked for 175 years. you saw federal judge 45. sounds like a long time. and drachlt. fata is 50 and might get good time for good behavior in prison but you can understand some of the patients say we got a life sentence and living with the consequences of this. for our lives. >> even the accusations, what are those accusations? amongst other things that he's accused of. >> federal government went for what they could prove and it wasn't what you might think. he was -- he pled guilty to financial crimes to money laundering, 13 counts. two counts of money laundering.
13 counts of fraud, medical fraud and 1 count of kickbacks. and listen. 45 years is a long time. but they clawed back about 17 million, almost $20 million of money. some allegations some prosecutors, some involved in law enforcement believe that he may have in fact stolen as much as $220 million from various insurers. >> talking to you during the break and what he's accused of making them think that they had cancer. not even giving alternative forms of medication. you saying what was he giving them? >> giving them cancer drugs. he was giving them the kinds of drugs, you know we understand these cancer drugs have long-term consequences. people perfectly healthy given cancer drugs. >> if you're the family member the doctor's the hope. that treatment is the hope. so of course you're like yes, of course, whatever it takes to keep my loved one alive.
>> i think some of the people did have cancer and in those cases people who should have had by standard protocols six weeks of treatment he would give them five years of treatment. >> wow. >> it is really shocking and the doctor, by the way, went into court today and cried and begged for mercy. some people think he got too much of it. >> and may not be over with appeals, civil cases possibly. >> a civil case is coming. >> cynthia, fascinating and tragic for the families. tough to watch. up next the trump card the donald rising in the polls. how high could he go? we'll be right back. but to get from the old way to the new you'll need the right it infrastructure. from a partner who knows how to make your enterprise more agile, borderless and secure. hp helps business move on all the possibilities of today. and stay ready for everything that
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once driven, there's no going back. friday donald trump ends the week much as he began it. near the top in polls and a thorn in the side of the gop. his latest comments came last night as he once again bashed his fellow republicans on the theme of immigration. in particular jeb bush and marco rubio. take a listen.
>> bush is weak on immigration. forget about his stance on common core. weak on immigration. marco rubio is somebody who's extremely weak on immigration. his poll numbers went down. >> eli, yep, talk about it. he had a slap on the wrist. the head of the gop asking trump to tone it down. the fact that trump hasn't says what about the current state of the party? they're scared of him? >> i don't know that it says a whole lot about the state of the party. it says a lot about donald trump and that he really is playing with house money. he doesn't care how many millions of dollars he loses in terms of business relationships or does to the republican primary field as a whole and the pressure seems to be relishing putting on these other candidates. donald trump is all about himself and sitting at the table and playing so recklessly and going big and making it hard for everybody else sitting at the
table, especially jeb bush and marco rubio. >> isn't there a point he'll be the person i'm ready to play and some of these other contenders will they have to? >> well you know to candidates who are sort of in the second tier, it is an opportunity to sort of draft off of trump's noise and momentum and get themselves into the conversation. for jeb bush for marco rubio, it is a bit trickier. you don't want to give him more attention and overreact to him. you hope he goes away. you also don't want him to get away with outlandish statements and look spineless and soft. it is a tough position he's putting them in. the hope is it sort of plays itself out. right now ber in a part of the race where the polls are a reflection of name i.d. and celebrity and so donald trump is here the top of the polls and as long as he does that he'll get
the media attention and a factor in the race. >> coming to the debates how does that come into play? any possibility that the gop deny him a spot in that? because we are talking about, you know four weeks. >> yeah. there's no way they can do that. he's going to be in the debate. they don't want to upset him. there's a risk out there that if donald trump is alienated by the party, he could run as an independent. another ross perot and really up end the party's chances of winning back the white house next year. that is sticky situation. the republican the rnc, fox news, the networks agreed to the stipulations to be and first couple of debates if you're in the national top ten and trump is, and will likely stay in you're going to be on that stage. that may really be the first opportunity for some of these others to whack him a little bit and knock him down and bring this current trump fixation to an end. >> a lot to watch. eli, thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> sure. and that does wrap things up
for today's show. thank you for being with me. thomas will be back next week. until then, keep the conversation going on social media. have a great weekend. and for "the cycle" they're up next. >> hi thanks francis. a very americana show today. we'll talk about the confederate flag coming down in south carolina. we're going to speak to a member of the delta force about his new book and, of course krystal and abby at the parade for the world whoon women american's soccer team. and big hearts happy too because as part of a heart healthy diet those delicious oats in cheerios can help lower cholesterol. cheerios... how can something so little... help you do something so big.
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nation. good afternoon. i'm toure. the confederate battle flag is gone forever from the state capitol in columbia. the civil war era symbol had flown there since the '60s and now been taken down for the final time. three weeks after nine worshippers more killed mother emanuel by a man who posed with the confederate flag and reportedly told friends he wanted to start a race war. nearly 10,000 people packed the block surrounding the confederate memorial as the flag was lowered for good. now the only flag at the capitol is the stars and stripes as the lyrics of the 1897 march proclaims, the flag of the north and south and west in the flag of flags, the flag of freedom's nation. president obama today tweeted, south carolina taking down the confederate flag, a signal of goodwill and healing and a meaningful step toward a better future. the governor haley said