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tv   Meet the Press  MSNBC  July 13, 2015 1:00am-2:01am PDT

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drawing big crowds and creating big fears for the gop. >> the silent majority is back, and we're going to take the country back. >> you may think you know where he stands -- >> i'm very pro-life. >> -- but do you? >> i'm very pro-choice. also, lost cause. the confederate battle flag comes down in south carolina. and with it the anti-civil rights era it came to represent. i'll be joined by nikki haley the republican governor, who said, "take down that flag." plus, cyber insecurity. 21 million americans swept up in a hack attack. china is the big suspect. are we losing the war over cyber security?
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and stealth candidate. the man not yet in the republican race who just might have the best shot at winning the nomination. i'm chuck todd. joining me to provide insight and analysis this sunday morning are, arthur brooks of the american enterprise institute. pulitzer prize winning historian, doris kerns-good within. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." good sunday morning. anyone who thought donald trump might tone down his rhetoric was disabused of that notion yesterday. yesterday trump made clear his goal is to promote what is the new silent majority. yes, he used the phrase and he took aim at the other candidates for president. hard. >> i hear like donald trump doesn't deserve to be on the same stage with some failed senator, or failed governor or something. it is sort of amazing, isn't it? >> the scene at phoenix turned
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rowdy at one point when protesters tried to disrupt trump's speech and wound up clashing with his supporters. we'll get to a lot of the trump stuff in a few moments, including the donald trump you may not recognize. the one who was pro-choice, pro-hillary and pro-obama. but first, trump's rally presents a stark contrast to what could have been a weekend when the republican party celebrated making inroads with another minority group -- african-americans. my first guest, governor nicky haylie nikki haley was instrumental in removing the flag. governor haley, welcome to "meet the press." >> good morning, chuck. thank you for having me. >> governor, what did friday mean? is it a symbolic end of this what we described as sort of the symbolic end of using the battle flag to protest the civil rights era, or is it something else? >> you know i think it meant a lot of things to a lot of
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different people. what i can tell you is that it felt like a massive weight had been lifted off south carolina. we can truly say it is a new day in south carolina. >> what did it mean to you? >> it was emotional. i think that it was hard for me to look at that flag coming down and not think about the emanuel nine, not think about those nine people who took in someone that didn't look like them didn't sound like them and accepted him and prayed with him for an hour. it is hard for us to not think about those nine people. it reminded me of how much south carolina has moved forward. the way that we didn't have any protests. we had vigils. we didn't have people getting out of harndfof hand. we had hugs. it was just a real proud moment for south carolina. >> this was a fascinating moment to watch for someone like me who's covered presidential politics for a couple of decades. thought this was intractable. to watch you and senator scott and lindsey graham sort of linked arms and you sort of dared the legislature to not do this. and when you challenged them to do it.
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what do you take away from this in pushing an agenda going forward that is perhaps dealing with educational standards that are different for whites and blacks in south carolina? >> we actually started doing this a couple of years ago because i so wanted to make sure we were lifting up everyone. so we changed the way we funded education. we now give more money for areas of poverty. we now have reading coaches. we now have technology for those areas of school districts that can't afford it. we were the first state in the country that had a body camera built. we've already been moving in this direction so this was like a nice move forward to say we're not that state that everybody thinks we are. we actually are a state where we love our god, we love our country, we love our state, but we love each other. >> you know, one of the issues of clementa pinckney was the voting rights laws. that's been a big controversy with a lot of african-americans particularly and with a lot of republican governors. do you see theish issue differently now?
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do you understand the -- what some african-americans believe these voting -- voter i.d. laws end up being a way to single them out or disenfranchise them? >> you know the flag coming down was a moment that i felt like needed to happen. that doesn't mean that i philosophically change the way i think about other things. i've never seen the voter i.d. as a racial issue. for whites, for blacks, for asians, for anyone. what i see is it is an issue you where people prove who you are. i think that's important to our democracy and important to america. having to show a picture i.d. when you get on a plane or show a picture i.d. when you buy sudafed, you should absolutely provide a photo i.d. for anyone to vote. we think that's an important part to the process. >> want to go a little bit to the investigation of the shooter. we found out that the fbi background check essentially didn't work because some -- the arrest records of dylann roof
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didn't get into the system in time. when they gotten in may he wouldn't have been able to purchase the gun that he did purchase. when you look at background check laws -- i know this is as much about a federal issue as it is a state issue -- and you see this disparity that perhaps more time was going to be needed for law enforcement to get the record into the system. do you think the background check system should be expanded instead of a three-day period? maybe longer? >> well first of all, whether we got the call from the fbi telling us what had happened i was literally sick to my stomach. you know we expect when the feds say they're going to do something, we take them at their word that it is going to get done. the fact that it didn't get done is terrible and it's one more thing that these families are going to have to go through that they don't deserve to have to go through. i think we need to look at the fact that it's not about time. it's about technology. this is something -- when someone has a charge filed against them, it should go into a database and it should be shown immediately to anyone
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that's looking at it. so i would be more interested in what went wrong, what sort of -- why are they dealing with paperwork and not dealing with technology that they wouldn't have had this to start with. >> you think it is the feds and not necessarily local? not necessarily lexington county or anybody else? >> we were told when the fbi called us that it was an fbi issue, that it was not a state issue. >> i got to ask you, you're the daughter of two immigrants. what do you make of donald trump's a rethetoric? >> i understand the frustration that he has about illegal immigration a lot of people have. the difference is we need to be very conscious of our tone we need to be very conscious of how we communicate. there are a lot of legal immigrants that have made this country the place it is today. we need to make sure that we're always communicating in a way that's got respect and dignity and that's what so much was about with south carolina, was when you saw all of this happen, people respected each other, they may have disagreed but they respected each other. that tone is important for the
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country. so it's okay to be frustrated. it's not okay to have a harsh tone in the way that you communicate that because it hurts people and it's just not necessary. >> you think donald trump is fit to be president? >> i think that's going to remain to be seen. i think we've got 16 candidates. i'm looking forward to debates. i'm looking forward to a lot of things but i will tell you tone and communication is one of the things that everybody's looking for. we want someone that brings people together. we want someone that understands that what unites us is a lot more than what divides us. that's going to be something that i think the entire country is going to be looking at, is how someone communicates the tone and are you bringing more people in as opposed to excluding people out. >> lot of people are speculating that your national star is rising, that we may see your name on a national ticket either next year or down the road. what do you make of the extra political attention you've been getting? >> it's painful. because nine people died.
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nine people died in charleston. and what we have been dealing with is nine funerals and people like cynthia hurd who said her life motto was to be kinder than necessary. tywanza sanders, 26 years old, our youngest victim, as he stood in front of the murderer he stood in front ever his aunt and said we want no harm. that's what i'm talking about the emanuel nine changed this country. >> what a wonderful way to end. governor haley thanks for answering the question that way. i appreciate it. thanks for coming on. let me bring in the panel. arthur brooks, one of the most influential conservative think tank leaders in washington. pulitzer prize winning historian, doris kerns-good win. maria hinojosa. doris you're america's historian on this one.
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i still -- friday i still can't get over it. i did not think we'd see this day in mypy lifetime. >> you were mentioning that you've been covering these be issues for a couple decades. for me it is half a century since lbj signed the civil rights act the voting rights act, the flag goes up in part to the opposition of the civil rights movement and desegregation. now that the south itself has taken the leadership role lbj predicted, republicans will be there for a generation. democrats have lost. the country hasn't lost if republicans in the south start taking a leadership in this role. i found it an extraordinary emotional moment. i think that if they can say to themselves we want to heal this country they lost the war. it is good they lost the war. if they hadn't lost the war we have had a split country. we wouldn't have been able to fight hitler. we might not have been able to fight the cold war. it is a great thing for the country that they've taken the leadership. >> arthur brooks, you have a new book "conservative at heart." you're a guy who's been trying to soften the image of the republican party.
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you believe it is a huge issue and i just see the contrast. governor haley just now. donald trump, what i just -- i mean could you get more stark contrast than those two when it comes to talking about america? >> look. nikki haley is the future of the republican party. it is a new day in american politics politics. a new right is moving. nikki haley, the daughter of immigrants bans together with a republican conservative senator? they both take down the confederate battle flag tocchet, to the cheers of south carolina citizens? this is the trend. republican candidates not paying attention to donald trump need to stay the course toward a humanistic kind of movement that's based on compassion based on inclusiveness and this is the future. >> maria, it is a symbol. i guess the question is what's next? >> well i'm kind of stuck in the fact that governor haley in this amazing moment didn't actually say i abhor what donald trump has said. she didn't actually say this is
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unacceptable. >> she's not alone in republican leaders. >> correct. so when i see this amazing moment in south carolina, it's kind of like well which party is it? and, frankly, is it the party that says we're choosing the future, we get it, we get -- we accept change we're good or donald trump. and for people out there, it is very confusing. i also want to tell you my driver today, who brought me here, pakistani-american citizen. he said when i hear donald trump, he's talking about me. and he's pakistani-american. nikki haley could have gone one step further, like the republican party, like the democratic party. >> people talk about a republican party in decline. i don't necessarily see it that way. i think it is a republican party in transition as arthur was saying. i think donald trump in a sense does them a favor. right? i think you can look at it as doing republicans a favor, he's stavg staking out an older phasing divisive position and giving the new generation of republicans a chance to step forward and say, no we want a different party.
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i'm priced more republicans aren't taking that stance in a more public way. >> i think that's going to change in the next week or two. would anybody here be surprised if nikki haley is on the ticket in '16? >> without question. she's a woman. she handled this gracefully. she can speak so well as you can see. >> when the meet a moment, the moment hits you it is how you handle the moment you don't expect. >> few people are given that chance. when they handle a moment like that dramatically and well they plop into the spotlight. that's a very gracious way of saying it. >> she struggled the first couple years as governor. then sort of -- >> and came to power, remember -- it would have been impossible for a woman of south asian decent to come to power in south carolina with this very powerful, conservative movement. her transition her journey -- not that she's changed so dramatically -- but her journey is the journey of this party that's experiencing a transformational change.
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>> sort of get rid of the tea party label. >> but the question is, it is one thing to take down the visible scar of the flag or colored-only signs, but voting rights, as you brought up real discrimination that's still going on against blacks in the south. those are the substantive issues. >> can we also not forget the south is no ng lolonger white and black. the most intense demographic change and multi-cultural change is actually happening in the american south. so it isn't just what is happening with african-americans and whites. it's what's happening with the new immigrants, what's happening with latinos, how are they going to be brought in. as a latina, i care about the lowering of the confederate flag. we all do. so that is the new south. it is no longer a dynamic of black and white. that's all. >> i mean, look. her instinct is the important thing to keep in mind. when her instinct is, when something bad like this happens -- you mentioned this before -- to take down the confederate battle flag and talk about how south carolinians can come together in love for each other, notwithstanding what their background is that's a
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new movement. >> we'll pause there. i promise we have more to say about donald trump. when we come back, donald trump in his own words. that was then. >> hillary clinton i think is a terrific many would. >> this is now. >> i think hillary would be a terrible president. >> the changing views of donald trump and [ jennifer garner ] why can't powerful sunscreen feel great? actually it can. neutrogena® ultra sheer®. its superior uva uvb protection helps prevent early skin aging and skin cancer, all with the cleanest feel. it's the best for your skin. neutrogena® ultra sheer®. progressive insurance here and i'm a box who thrives on the unexpected. ha-ha! shall we dine? [ chuckle ] you wouldn't expect an insurance company to show you their rates and their competitors' rates but that's precisely what we do. going up! nope, coming down. and if you switch to progressive today you could save an average of over 500 bucks. stop it. so call me today at the number below. or is it above? dismount! oh, and he sticks the landing!
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we are back. to say the field for the gop presidential nomination is a little crowded would be quite the understatement. but one candidate who's having
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no problem making himself heard is donald trump. he's focusing on one major issue -- immigration. his hardline views on illegal immigrants, particularly those from mexico, is creating a problem for the rest of the gop field with a party that needs to secure more of the latino vote than mitt romney did if they want to win the white house. party chairman reince priebus called on trump yesterday calling on trump to tone down the rhetoric. didn't seem to work. it seems clear when it comes to immigration and the others in the race, trump has no intention of pulling any punches. in a 70-minute monologue last night, trump took on macy's, nas nascar, nba jeb bush -- caroline kennedy. yes, caroline kennedy. >> so i had an idea. i think it's good. every time mexico really intelligently sends people over we charge mexico $100,000 for every person they send over.
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>> boo! >> usa! usa! >> i wonder if the mexican government sent them over here. i think so. i'm tied with jeb bush. i said that's too bad. how can i be tied with this guy? he's terrible. he's terrible. i hire lobbyists. i have lobbyists all over the place. they're great. i want this go do that. i know the system better than anybody. i'm a donor. someone said you gave to the democrats. of course. i give to everybody! i want to go everything done! everybody loves me. >> oshgkay. one of the reasons trump is breaking through this year is because people feel they know where he stands but do they? we've looked at his positions through the years and it would be fair to say he's evolved quite a few times, on some key issues, interest. health care to abortion to his feelings about the top democrat in the 2016 field. >> i think hillary would be a terrible president.
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she was the secretary of state in the history of our nation. why would she be a good president? >> hillary clinton i think is a terrific woman. i'm a little biased becausive a he known her for years. >> you support her? >> i don't want to get into this because i'll get myself into trouble. >> that's why i asked you. >> i know. i just like her. i like her around i like her husband. >> some people would say he's incompetent. i would not say that. yeah yes, i would. >> i think tim geithner's done a good job. i think that the whole group has really done a good job. when you look at what's happening. at least we have an economy. you wouldn't have had an economy had they not come up with some very drastic steps two years ago. >> i'm almost more disappointed with the republicans. >> they have to toughen up on obamacare which is a total lie and which is a total and complete disaster. >> health care. >> liberal on health care. we have to take care of people that are sick. >> universal health coverage? >> i like universal.
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we have to take care. there's nothing else. what's the country all about if we're not going to take care of our sick? >> let me tell you everybody wants to pay as little as possible including warren buffett, by the way. and somebody said what's your tax rate? i don't know. i pay as little as possible. >> i would tax people of wealth, of great wealth, people over $10 million by 14.25%. this tax would raise approximately $5.7 trillion, which happens to be our national debt. >> well, i'm very pro-life. and feel strongly about it. >> i'm very pro-choice. i hate the concept of abortion. i hate it. i hate everything it stands for. i cringe when i listen to people debating the subject. but you still -- i just believe in choice. >> let's bring the panel back in. got a little bit into trump before. maria, when you hear his het rick rhetoric yesterday, your reaction? >> since we are arthur here representing the heart, it is
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heartbreaking. isn't it? how are we moving forward as a country about tronld dumpdonald trump is saying this about one of the fastest growing demographic groups in the country. i put it in a historical context with all due respect to our esteemed historian. i did my research. i was like what did fdr say about japanese americans? he said they could never be trusted to own land. they could never be trusted to assimilate. what did strom thurmond say when he was running for president in 1928? they will never force negroes into my church. from latino leaders i've been speaking to if these comments were being said about any other group ar african-americans, eye tal italian-americans, the entire media establishment would stand up and say, no. . the feel is, how much can we get away from insulting mexicans, latinos, immigrants? how much can the republican
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party actually deal with this? and for latinos -- again, what i'm hearing is this is unacceptable. this is just unacceptable that it is to a point where you can throw an entire community under the bus. >> corporate america is sort of hearing you. let's look at this list. i can't read them all because it is getting so long now but the list of people trying to cut their ties. >> absolutely. >> -- with donald trump is getting quite large. >> if he cares about money -- again if you care about money. this is where i come in. what is your real interest here? if you care about making money, we know donald trump doesn't like the richest man in the world, he's mexican -- he's laughing all the way to the bank. i don't understand from a smart businessman perspective, you are roz losing $1.5 trillion market of latinos who are saying no to trump. those pinatas of trump being hit by kids who are american citizens who will soon become voters will not forget, trump equals republican party equals -- i don't know -- will i ever vote for them? >> interesting.
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matt bai you said the first time you covered donald trump is when you saw some of those 1999 comments. that was donald trump the liberal. >> i was in his apartment with the marble statues. we had dinner with alec baldwin. >> donald trump and alec baldwin at a dinner party. that's something else. >> a charity benefit. he was talking about running against pat buchanan who now he's become in a sense. look, you can't think of this as a campaign. this is my point. this is a reality show. he's been doing this forever. he has no interest in governing the country. he has no plan for governing the country. he's running for one reason only so people like us will sit around on sets like this and talk about him. and here we are. i'm not faulting you for it because i understand what he's saying is all really interesting. i don't think the polls are indicative of anything other than noise. i don't think he's a serious candidate for the presidency and i don't think there is any staying power. >> arthur, i think the question is, are the republican leaders doing enough to distance themselves? are they going to look back a year from now and say, i should have been tougher?
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>> i just finished a book on this subject. truth of the matter is unless you are an an spirational candidate, are you not going to win. the republicans don't win if they're about anger. they win when they're about aspiration. that's a historical truth and the future truth as well. that's what the republican candidates need to pay attention to. if they follow donald trump down any rabbit hole at all, they'll pay the price. that means stay the course and continue to do what they're doing. say i disagree on every policy position and here's what i am for. pivot immediately to what you are for after saying i don't agree with these policy positions and i don't think it is representative of what americans want to hear. >> doris we've seen versions of donald trump over the years. not just versions of this donald trump. i mean a george wallace and things like this. this does happen and they do strike a chord. >> i think the important thing is not to understand the chord he's strishging but we as journalists have a responsibility to question, is this the kind of person who could truly be a leader, a person so quick to anger a person who yells at other people, a person who bull ryyiesbullies
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a person who's loose with the facts a people who has conspiracy theories about whether obama was born here, about vaccines, about climate change as a hoax. i think it is too much for us to give him the credit of liking what he's saying because it is interesting. we as journalists have the responsibility to figure out which candidates are likely to be our leaders. i remember talking to tim russert about this. rather than who has the highest polls, who is likely to be a leader. this guy has shown qualities i can't imagine him as a presidential leader. >> i don't think anybody can. i think the question is what does this implode. back in a moment with that hack attack on the u.s. government computers. are we losing the war on cyber security ka security? and why you should be very concerned about this. >> announcer: "meet the press" is brought to you by morgan
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welcome back.
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i love technology as much as anyone. twitter, facebook and of course the "meet the press" website. they are all a big part of what i do. but this week was a reminder of how our dependence on technology leaves us vulnerable. computer glitches grounded several flights and trading on the new york stock exchange was halted several times while "gremlins struck." but the office of personnel management revealed the massive scale of a hack that compromised the records of 21.5 million americans mainly government workers, who have gone through background checks. the next day katherine archuleta, the director of opm, resigned under pressure. while there is no official word on who carried out this colossal cyber attack, most officials have been pointing the finger at china. so is the u.s. losing the cyber war? my next guest retired major general brett williams, is perfectly placed to offer an assessment. last summer he served as director of operations for the u.s. cyber command.
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he's now president of operations and training at iron net cyber security. welcome to "meet the press." >> thanks very much. >> let me ask you this. what does the opm hack say about cyber security in america today? >> i think what this says is that we haven't all realized we're past the wake-up call stage. the wake-up call has occurred. everybody in the neighborhood -- >> how many times is the wake-up call? >> exactly. the problem is people are stumbling around in the dark looking for the light switch and there's been a guy hiding in the close closet for nine months and he's stealing the jewelry and tv and walking out the door. my question is how many of these people are already in places gaining the foothold, just waiting for the right time for the next attack equally as serious as the opm attack. >> the question is why did china go here? had a lot of viewers are going well, if china was going after the cia's computers or pentagon's computers, that would all make sense. why opm?
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>> i think everybody you've heard from the intelligence community is correct. this is standard espionage. the fact that we can now do it through cyberspace makes it somewhat easier. we can hoover up a lot more records and collect a lot more things. i think it is pure espionage because there's been no evidence so far that any of this information has shown up in -- call it the black market that you see on the internet. it is more than likely an espionage type of action. now they'll go back and cull through those records and, like any other intelligence agency, they'll figure out how to use that information in order to further their own objectives. >> if this was an attack by china, should we retaliate? >> we need to put this in the context of our national security policy as it relates to china and national security policy i think was difficult before we had cyberspace. now cyberspace has made it even more difficult. from my experience in the government, what i saw is we're struggling to figure out how does this cyber activity fit in with the rest of our elements of national power if you will. we haven't quite figured it out.
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there is a tendency to say, i was attacked in cyberspace i have to respond in cyberspace and i don't think that's the right approach. we have to look at all the tools the government has available. >> let's not be naive here. the united states conducts its own cyber espionage does it not? >> i think you would expect your government to be -- >> not to make you confirm anything. >> -- against countries that have opposing goals. i think you would expect the united states to cover a variety of intelligence activities and they'll certainly use the means that are most effective. >> watching the last three days and the requisite sort of washington firing of the person in charge at opm, is it really on her or do we have a government-wide issue here where we have i.t. problems of different sizes all over the government? >> let me say first -- i don't know if it is my military experience, but i do think the leader of an organization at that level is accountable given what i read in the media about the warning flags and reports and that sort of thing. but when you think about the failure, let's take it above the i.t. level.
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i would characterize the failure in these two respects. it's poor risk assessment, and then it is a lack of will to do what needs to be done. what i mean by that is basic risk assessment is i'm going to determine what's the probability that a bad thing will happen to me and then if it does happen, what's it going to cost? how severe is it going to be? i think we continue to underestimate the probability that we'll be hacked and underestimate how bad it is going to be, how much it is going to cost. then even if we do that, there is a lack of will to make really hard decisions about making ourselves more secure. >> is it financial? is that what it is? it seems as if we never like to spend money for preparation. we only like to spend money to fix. after we know the price. >> there is an element of that. when i was working on the air force budget i was taught never to say "we have enough money." but i think that that's not the primary thing that's the problem. i think it is these two things. i think it is one, we don't spend the money that we have in the right place, like after there is a big hack, there is a tendency to throw a bunch of
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money at the problem and you end up with a bunch of single point solutions that have already been proven not to work. we've go the to get to the next generation of security. and then the sucked thing that we've got to do we've got to people people that are at that c-suite boardroom level, commensurate positions in the federal government, who understand enough about cyber security and enough about business so they can make the tough business trade-offs that have to be made in order to make us more secure. >> we had a cyber security summit at the white house. plenty of members of congress have sounded the alarm bells. yet there is no cohesive strategy. >> the lights are on but we've got to get past the talking stage. there is one big thing i would do if i had the option. i call it the stealth fighter thing. when we first flew the f-117 stealth fighter in 1981 we jumped 15 years ahead of the air defenses. what we need is that public/private consortium that manhattan-like project that's figuring out how does the federal government, how do the critical components of our
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ivate sector, how can they operate in the internet with a level of security that we expect? you see projects at darpa and national labs but i don't see that really concerted effort. hopefully it doesn't take the power grid going down for ten days or the faa going down for ten days before we are willing to put that kind of effort. >> i have to say, that was the sort of nightmare scenario we all felt for a few minutes last week between the new york stock exchange and all that. general williams, thanks for coming in, trying to explain this to us. sounds like we got a long way to go. >> thanks very much, chuck. >> you got it. this book by ted cruz sold more copies in its first week than any other non-fiction book. so why is it not on "the new york times i'm caridee. i've had moderate to
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if you follow politics, you know there are lots of ways for candidates for measure success. one of them is how well their books are selling. books they may or may not have
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written themselves to introduce themselves to a public that may or may not care. as you can see here, we have a whole bunch of books here for the 2016 book primary. how are they doing? ben carson's latest book has proven to be the biggest of winners with 363,000 hardcover copies sold. americans seem to "heart" huckabee as well. he's sold nearly 66,000 copies of his books. but not all these presidential candidates are doing well. marco rubio and jim webb, both have only sold 8,000 copies each of their memoirs. which brings us to ted cruz. this book here, "a time for truth," sold nearly 12,000 copies in its first week alone. more than all but two non-fiction books political or otherwise. that should put him at the top of the all-important "new york times" best seller list. right? wrong. try to find it this morning. the "times" conspicuously omitted it claiming sales of cruz's book were "limited to
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strategic bulk purchases." cruz's publisher arthur collins says the "times" is wrong. they claim there were no bulk purchases at all. cruz's campaign has their own idea suggesting it was "a naked fabrication designed to cover up your own partsisan agenda." no the sure that will help ted cruz get on "the new york times" get on the best seller list or get the "times'" endorsement. coming up the latest on those iran nuclear [ jennifer garner ] why can't powerful sunscreen feel great? actually it can. neutrogena® ultra sheer®. its superior uva uvb protection helps prevent early skin aging and skin cancer, all with the cleanest feel. it's the best for your skin. neutrogena® ultra sheer®.
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and now to what seems like the endless saga that is the iran nuclear negotiations. after grinding talks in vienna, the latest deadline for a deal is monday. it is the third extension in two weeks. it seems the key sticking point is a dispute over lifting the international embargo against selling conventional weapons to iran. joining me now, chairman of the senate foreign relations committee, republican from tennessee, bob corker. senator corker welcome back to "meet the press." >> chuck good to be with you. thank you. >> you are perhaps the single most important lawmaker when it comes to giving a thumbs up or thumbs down on a deal. there's plenty of reports. expectation is some provisional deal is getting close to being agreed to and announced tomorrow. are you feeling better today than you did last week about secretary kerry as a negotiator? >> well, chuck, it's -- no. >> okay. >> i went over to the white house on thursday night and had an update but no.
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i mean i think we've been on a downward trend for some time. we really crossed the rubicon when we went from agreeing to dismantling their program to managing proliferation. there are some key issues that remain that i hope we will hold firm to. we've got to ensure that this is verifiable. that we have any time, anywhere inspections, that they are accountable, that we know what their previous military dimensions were. we have access to all of their scientists. we know they were building a bomb. we just want to know how far they got in previous efforts. and thirdly, we need to make sure it is enforceable. likely iran will cheat by inches, meaning they will just cheat, cheat, cheat. over time it's like boiling an egg. they end up with a nuclear weapon. so what are the repercussions for that? obviously there are other elements that are being brought in at this time. i'm glad that they are taking their time because i believe the
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deadline was actually working to iran's advantage. they started throwing in other elements. but no, i'm concerned about where we're going. >> so it doesn't sound like a deal that they come up with. i know you don't want to prejudge what's in there but from everything you seem to understand, doesn't sound like you can support this deal. if you can't support this deal i don't see how this gets through the senate. >> well chuck -- so, look. part of what we do here is try to point out those areas that are not yet agreed to and to try to get them not to cross those red lines. actually, i think we've been fairly effective. other groups like the washington institute have done the same, a bipartisan group of people saying, look, we really changed the way we've gone about this hugely by moving to managed proliferation, but these qualitative issues here at the end really matter. and so chuck, what i think you're going to see is people in the house really looking at how they manage these issues.
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obviously we want to go through the agreement in whole. we haven't seen -- for instance there is an iranian nuclear development program. we know that it's been agreed to but we don't know exactly what it says. we believe that it industrializes their program after year ten. but again, i want to see the agreement. i think i've been an honest broker in this from day one and certainly we plan to go through it in great detail. >> i guess my only question is so let's say you guys reject the deal in congress but the other five -- this has been with the p5+1, as we say, the world powers plus germany if the rest of the countries have agreed to this deal and lowering their sanctions, how effective is it for the united states to be the one country to backtrack? >> yeah. well, i understand what's going to happen. the world's eyes are going to be on congress once this comes over. but, look. we have responsibilities to carry out. i think the fact that we've inserted ourselves as you know we had no power to intervene.
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the president had national security waivers where he could go straight to the u.n. security council. we injected ourself in to this. i think that that has helped the process. but at the end of the day i think people understand that if this is a bad deal, that is going to allow iran to get a nuclear weapon, they would own this deal if they voted for it. and so they'll want to disapprove it. on the other hand, if we feel like we're better off with it people will look to improve it. i think at the end of the day people will vote their conscience. i don't think they'll worry about what the other nations are doing. in my sense it is our nation that's pushed harder than the other western nations to try to get this done. i realize russia and china are going to be tough to hold. obviously one of the key ingredients is keeping the international community together with these sanctions. but we understand the position we're going to be in but i think that by inserting ourselves in the way that we have we've helped the process.
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we've helped to do everything we can to stiffen the backs of our negotiators. >> by the way, you just brought up russia. incoming -- the president's pick to be incoming -- the next chairman of the joint chiefs, he said without hesitation when asked by joe manchin, he said that russia was our greatest national security threat. did that surprise you? >> you know, really it's interesting. our nominee, mitt romney, said the same thing during his last campaign and people made fun of him for doing so. then we have russia now destabilizing 70 years of european policy where it would be whole democratic and free. russia is a problem. there's no question. they do not agree to international norms. they are obviously of concern in the baltics right now. we are having to rebuild nato really because of our concerns about them. i don't think it's -- there's certainly a threat to world peace there's no question.
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what's the greatest threat? we have so many of them that we're dealing with right now cluck. i do not want to say they're the greatest. we have the south china sea. we've got isis which i don't think is that kind of threat. we have this issue with iran. there are numbers of issues around the world that are very important to the safety of our citizens. >> you're no shrinking violet so i'll ask you this last question. donald trump. what's he doing to the republican party? >> you know, chuck, we've got four people in the senate running. we've got a lot of governors and friends running around the country. if i start responding to every foreign policy statement that's made by candidates or other statements, you know it kind of diminishes my ability to carry out our work. i want to be -- i want our committee to be the north star if you will, in laying out policies that are great for our nation. i hope that candidates will move towards those because i believe when people run for office they generally try to do what they
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say. i'm going to keep my focus on trying to make sure we carry out great foreign policy for our nation and let the candidates discuss these issues as they wish. but thank you for asking me the question. >> can i put you down as a "no comment" on donald trump? >> you can put me down as a -- i'm not going to be wandering all over the place relative to responding to comments that candidates are making. it ought to be an interesting primary. i know y'all are enjoying it very much. >> senator corker, thanks for your time and i'm sure we'll see a lot of you this week as the deal comes through. >> thank you. by the way reminder -- if you don't have a chance to watch "meet the press" live don't despair. we're always available on demand. so even if it is not sunday, it's "meet the press." we'll be back in 45 seconds. i swear. with our "end game" segment. and the republican who's not even in the race yet who may have a distinct advantage over all of his republican opponents -- and hillary clinton. >> announcer: stay tuned for
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"end game." brought to you by boeing.
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>> announcer: time now for "meet the press" "end game" brought to you by boeing, where the drive to build something better inspires us every day. we're going to begin our "end game" segment with some "nerdscreen" time. today it is all about the importance of the midwest winning the white house and why scott walker who enters the race officially tomorrow has a potential geographic advantage because he's from wisconsin. take a look at the 2012 map. fairly typical of the blue-red divide. while democrats dominate the east and west and republicans rule most of the south and plains, it's these states up here in the midwest that have been blue lately that are critical to the republican hopes. in fact, take a look at this. these seven states in the midwest are prime retate. collectively, they hold 91 electoral votes. candidate barack obama from illinois won all seven of these
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states in 2010. the old big ten, by the way. indiana is the only state of these seven that consistently has gone red since '92. the only exception of course was 2008. the other states in the past six presidential elections, that's 36 state contests, democrats have won them 33 times. republicans only three. but prior to 1992, it was republicans that dominated these old big ten midwestern states. so if walker is able to secure the nomination he would be the first so-called big ten republican nominee since gerald ford. and guess what he did? gerald ford won a majority of the electoral votes in this region. even walker's hopes of getting the nomination rest on neighboring midwestern states including well, you know it -- iowa. lose there, and his candidacy may be done. win there, and he could be taking off. so bring in the panel. scott walker does announce tomorrow. in fact, we actually have a neat little thing. we think we can already preview
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his announcement speech. we were able to put together a whole bunch of tape from events he's done over the past three months. here's a little taste of what we think his announcement speech will sound like tomorrow. >> because i ran a base we could do business with. as a kid i can remember tying yellow ribbons around our tree out front because for 444 days iran held americans hostage. >> that's just a little taste. you can see this whole thing. it really is what we think is taking a stump speech and putting it together and seeing if we can do that. scott walker matdt bai, the forgotten front-runner. >> you should put some rap music to that. yeah, maybe. we talked about this before. this midwestern question is really interesting. that strain of republicanism in the midwest was your moderate, pro-civil rights everett dirksen -- that part of the republican party went away. i don't think scott walker necessarily speaks to that republicanism because he's been so much an instrument of the base of his party since coming to office. on the other hand you have john
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kasich who apparently is also getting in the race, the governor of ohio who's very much been in that john boehner strain of ohio republican politics who's dealt with a very diversified economy and a very industrial state and has had a lot of success. i think in some ways he is better suited to tap in to that lingering republican strain in the midwest than walker might be. >> let me go to mr. conservative heart over there. kasich or walker, i think john kasich brings up his heart a lot. >> he talks about it a lot. >> scott walker almost mocks kasich for some of his language. >> scott walker has been really notoriously tough in taking on the public sector juneunions. his strength will be pivoting to these affairs of the heart. i saw him the other day in denver, we were both conservative speakers at the western summit, he gave a speech that was fighting against a lot of different things which is what people do for activists but in the end, it was interesting. he said you know what? i'm an optimist about america. think our best years are really
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before us. it is not the parade of horribles the pessimism and division of the obama years which has characterized the last seven years in my view. the natural tendency is to react to that with more pessimism but he pivoted to this optimistic unifying expression of what the future could look like. i thought, i want 30 minutes of that. he basically as the toughest governor somebody who's done a lot of things the conservatives like, can now pivot to say here's what the better future looks like. i'm going to fight for all of the people who have been left behind. he could do really good. >> what do you make of walker? >> well, a chicago girl myself. i know what changing demographics look like in the midwest. i actually think that the midwest often leads the conversation on central issues, certainly on the conversation around immigration. but since what we've seen today, that there has been -- you just gave an opportunity to senator corker to do this to distance himself from trump and those statements. so if scott walker really wants to be viable with this demographic, why doesn't he take this moment to just say, and i'm
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announcing and i am saying ekwivicallyekwiv ically equivocally i abhor these statements. this would be a moment for hillary clinton and o'malley. if you want to lock in the latino electorate, what are they waiting for? both republicans and democrats to say i am here with you, you are my people and i want you to vote for me. they could lock it in. the fact that it's not happening is kind of amazing to me. >> scott walker, doris, i am curious -- he is trying to break a stranglehold here. there's all these national names, national candidates. he became a little bit of a national name because he got recalled and went after the unions. but he successfully won. could you see him get the nomination? >> he seems to have a strategic sense having read about him that he's worked it out in his mind. i do iowa, i do this. he's his own strategy. the problem is i've heard his major piece -- or the piece of the stump speech which is individualism will get you where you need to go in this country. i think what republicans and democrats both have to agree
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on -- that mobility isn't fair anymore. it is not working. it is family structure. it is neighborhood. it is education. whether or not you rise from that bottom to the top. the old idea that individual hard work is going to get you to the top of the ladder has to be softened now. i'm not sure that that's where he's at. >> we actually could have had that interesting debate this week between jeb bush and hillary clinton. jeb bush was talking and he got taken out of context. we know what he meant when he said people need to work longer hours when he talked to part-time workers. i think we'll hear hillary clinton tomorrow. is it wage stagnation or is it something else in the economy. >> i agree. >> it is going to be a great debate and a healthy one. it is the debate we should be having. >> and not this debate over what jeb bush said this week because obviously he was taken out of context and we do know what he meant and there is a more substantive debate to be had. >> hopefully we'll have that substantive debate as we go on.
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thanks to our great panel. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." it's monday july 13th. greece has met a deal. on the loose. after escaping a federal maximum security prison through an elaborate series of tunnels. lindsey graham calls donald trump the wrecking ball of the republican party. it appears officials are close err than ever with a nuclear deal with iran. an announcement is expected. plus oklahoma's olivia jordan is our new miss usa. and our bill karins

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