tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC July 16, 2015 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
>> april, thank you. lawrence o'donnell and for bill crystal, thank you both as well. >> april ryan gets tonight's last word. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. we're following breaking news on two big stories. within the past hour, a jury in colorado found james egan holmes guilty of 24 counts of first-degree murder. two counts for each of the 12 victims of the 2012 mass shooting at an aurora movie theater. he had faced a total of 166 charges. you're looking at a live picture from inside that courtroom with a verdict on those charges continue to be read as we go on the air right now. but we begin with the latest from chatanooga, tennessee where earlier today, a gunman opened fire at two separate military facilities. a recruitment center and a navy
and re marines reserve center. he's been identified as muhammad youssef abdulazeez. he was a naturalized citizen from kuwait earlier this afternoon. the fbi briefed reporters on the investigation. >> we believe it was a single shooter at this point. no reason to believe anybody else was involved. >> we're going to look at the shooter. we're going to do an intense look at him to see if what his connections are. we'll look at his friends, families, associates, anybody associated with him to determine the cause or the reason yes conducted this attack. >> the united states attorney in tennessee said they're investigating this as a case of domestic terrorism. the shooter was arm with numerous weapons, including automatic guns. this afternoon, chattanooga's mayor andy burke describe the attack as a nightmare. >> it is incomprehensible to see
the individuals that serve our country was treated. this is as i am, a nightmare for the city of chattanooga. one to which we will respond. >> president obama also addressed the attack today. he asked all americans to pray for the families of the victims. >> my main message now is the deepest sympathies of the american people to the families of the four marines killed. it is a heart breaking circumstance for these individuals who have served our country with great valor to be killed in this fashion. we take all shootings very seriously. obviously when you add an attack on a u.s. military facility, then we have to make sure that
we have all the information necessary to make an assessment in terms of how this attack took place. and what further attacks we can prevent in the future. >> what's the latest you can tell us? >> reporter: hi there. we're here at the site of the first shooting. the shots rang out at 10:35. witnesses described it as a kitic scene. some of them thought it was a construction site or something. they described it as jackhammers over and over again in quick succession. they described more than 25 rounds being shot at this location alone. right now the fbi is on the scene. they're taking the lead in this investigation and trying on figure out what the motive may have been here. there are still so many unanswered questions in this case. no. now, as you've been reporting that first shooting happened here. more than 25 rounds were shot. then the gunman drove about seven miles to a second location. a reserve center.
amazingly, no one at this location was killed but four marines lost their lives at that other location and right now it is a very somber scene in chattanooga. a makeshift memorial is being put up and we're hearing of services for tonight as the investigation continues and the fbi tries to figure out what what might have led to all this. >> what have we learned so far? what do we know? some sketchy details about the back ground of this guy. >> he is a naturalized citizen originally from kuwait. there is no exact motive being discussed by federal officials. they are investigating it as an act of domestic terrorism. they're through his home that he lived in the chattanooga area. they're trying to see you know, who he may have spoken to in the last few weeks. if federal officials had not been investigating him prior to this. that is the big question right
now. what may have led him to do this? was he perhaps inspired by some of the recent terrorist groups that have been asking for attacks in the u.s.? we don't know that to this point. and we don't know what may have kribld to his decision to come out here. and to open fire, not just in this location but that other reserve center targeting military facilities. that's important to note here. he apparently wanted to do some damage to the u.s. military and again, four marines have lost their lives. as the president said, many people around the country are praying for chattanooga and people are saying this is just a devastating tragedy and trying to understand it and make sense of it all. >> goodbye gabe gutierrez. appreciate that. >> justice correspondent pete williams joins us from washington. what's the latest you can tell us? >> well, federal officials say that there are several fact
pores appointment to the possibility these the attacks may have been terrorism. first the obvious. the choice of the targets, government buildings, military person nell uniform, isis social media in the past six months has relentlessly been staking attacks. and several. >> officials saying there are other indications this may have been terrorism though they decline to offer specifics. they're as gabe said, going through his past, looking at the people abdulazeez was in touch. with looking at his social media use, his phone calls, trying to piece together the days leading up to this event. they say that they didn't have any warning this was coming. three days ago on a blog he wrote that life is short and bitter and stressed the importance of jihad, steve. >> well, pete williams, that's an interesting bit of reporting when you say they're looking into the possibility of foreign
inspired terrorism. i guess that would encompass the possibility that he read propaganda that originated with a foreign source. does it also encompass the possibility of coordination overseas? >> that is a very good question. i think it is fair to say that at this point, just this point of the evening, they're leaning against the idea that this was directed by some overseas that terror organization. in other words, instructions, you ought to go do this, rather than inspire. here's the reason. very often when you have these directed attacks, such as the attack on the contest in garland, texas of as soon as the attack is over, isis immediately takes credit for it. that has not happened here. by the way, rumors earlier in the day that there had been some isis supporter tweeted out something about chattanooga just before this happened. in fact, it was after it happened.
the time on that is confusing but it came out well after the attack. so there's no indication that there was any warning or a credit claimed immediately afterwards which suggests that it was, if it was in fact isis-related, that it was inspired rather than directed. >> in terms of the investigation, pete, just the back ground of the sketchy details we're learning. i guess, an american citizen but originally from kuwait. what bearing will that have going forward? >> that fact in and of itself doesn't mean much. he's been in the united states for quite some time of his father is a city employee. he went to high school in the area. he graduated from college with an engineering degree. so you know, i'm sure they'll look at all the factors. if he had been from, you know, casper, wyoming, my home town, they would look at that too. but that in and of itself doesn't mean anything. >> all right. pete williams in washington, appreciate the time. >> this and congressman, the
latest you are hearing on the scene down there tonight about what's playing out? >> reporter: well, steve, this is a sad day for chattanooga. a sad day for america. i'm here now. it is later in the evening. but the events as i learned, as they unfolded today, at two locations here in our great city. this is sad. i am sick. i am ill. four wonderful united states marines lost their lives. there is a gunman who committed horrific acts. and it is a sad day for chattanooga and for america. >> as we're saying, this investigation obviously turns to the question of potential of a terror attack, the potential that it was inspired by something overseas. the investigation will presumably turn up evidence about, as we were saying earlier, there has been all this talk in the last few months from isis about the idea of going
after military targets. going after people in uniform. obviously, the military has a presence in chattanooga. can you talk about the presence of the military? the role it plays in the community? >> i'm sorry. i didn't hear your question? >> congressman, tell us about the role in that community of the military. of these military installations. >> i could not hear through the feed but i think i heard what you were saying, most of what you were saying. let me say this. chattanooga is a very proud community of its military heritage. we have a naval reserve center here. i know this. we are getting an investigation into this immediately. we're going to find out what happened, why it happened, resources are pouring into this city at the federal level. i've talk to state investigators, local investigators. this has been a nightmare for our city. and a nightmare for america.
we have to take steps this doesn't happen again. we live in a dangerous world and this is not the world that he grew up in. i'm 52 years old. i could not have gather onlied a situation when i was growing up that in my home town, a horrific attack like this would take place. >> all right, appreciate the time tonight. thank you. >> joined now by steve rogers, a member of the joint terrorism task force and retired fbi agent manny gomez. let me start with you, steve. the investigation that they're faced with right now in terms of trying to figure out the roots of an attack like this, practically speaking, how do you pursue an investigation? >> establishing motive is key to the question that's need to be answered and you brought them up. was this foreign inspired? foreign directed? was he a lone wolf? was he radicalized? they have to move forward to get those questions answered. especially to find out and you want to find out sflt there
anybody else involved? is there somebody else waiting to commit another attack? >> and i'm curious. your read on this. the information out there about how this was executed today. the fact that nobody apparently has stepped forward to claim any credit. how do you look at this based on what we know? >> it is very interesting that the fbi very quickly after this started unfolding called it a case of domestic terrorism as opposed to international terrorism. they're dissecting this individual and trying to ascertain, was he directed or inspired? way radicalized? if he was directed, then it becomes an international terrorism case. if it was inspired, then it will remain a domestic case and perhaps even a lone wolf situation that we've been seeing and hearing in remote areas. everybody is concerned about the
main targets, new york city, d.c., et cetera. here we have small town america waking up and realizing, they're very vulnerable as well. >> and steve, that's an issue too. is it small town america? the congressman saying never thought in my lifetime i would see something like this in my community. probably people around the country in their community saying i could never imagine this happen. and there's a big role for local law enforcement in these situations. >> i'm glad you brought that up. i've been beating the drum on this all over the country. the fbi, cia, military intelligence, they're doing a fantastic job and i believe they're the reason we haven't seen a catastrophic attack. prevent a catastrophic attack, we need the help of the people in each community and specially local cop. do you know the cities are well prepared with anti-terrorism units and training. i challenge anyone to go out to the suburbia and talk to the that street cops in the small towns.
they probably don't have a clue what to look for. we need to get them tools to gather intelligence, analyze the intelligence and get them right to the fbi. that will be a tremendous help in the war on trifl. >> jim cavanagh is also with us. we were talking about, they came out, the federal authorities came out immediately after this and said domestic terrorism. by definition that would preclude foreign involvement. were you surprised to hear that so quickly? >> no. they're always a little ahead of us here in the media, having been a commander on the ground. we have this stuff a little bit sooner. the stuff that pete said was so interesting on his reporting where he had a source that said the shooter had said a few days before in a blog that life is bitter and you know, he wanted to commit jihad. so now you have a guy who has attacked a military if the. he said he wants to commit jihad. you're starting to look at, okay, this guy is maybe under a
terrorist motive. if he is, then like your two guests said, what is actually motivating? directed attacks or direct connections to organizations like al qaeda or isis. direct connections. direct operatives. it doesn't feel like that. those are usually well planned and multiple attacks. it feels like it would be more like he was inspired. we call it internationally inspired. he might be inspired by the writings or the computer musings of guys like anwar al alooki. he was inspiring people like major hassan in ft. hood and many others. so we mean a person who lives in america. no direct connection to the terrorist groups overseas but is
inspired by their writings, their computer magazine, their twitter accounts. so i think overall, the united states needs to really do a better job. our units to do this are in my view, not funded and staffed enough. there is a unit in the state department and it has been beefed up recently but i'm telling you, we need to think of this more on a larger scale. like the manhattan project. when you hear in the media, they have 20,000 twitter followers so we throw up our hands? we have 320 million people in america we have the best technology. we have more people who can use twitter and smartphones and ipads than anybody. we can counter all of that. when they're on twitter, we could have five people on twitter. we could flood the airwaves to come together, get a plan. think big like the manhattan project. nobody thought could you split the atom. think big and counter this.
>> practically speaking, that's interesting. i think about this. the nightmare scenario. everybody has been thinking about, watching the rise of isis or al qaeda before that.lves who are inspired. indirect. you can't break this chain of communication between something happening overseas and something happening here. ultimately you're trying to get into the minds of people to preempt one of these attacks. >> that's absolutely right. so far, law enforcement has done an exceptional job at identifying, investigating, preventing individuals that are either thinking about going overseas to fight with isis or considering doing a home grown attack like in this one. it is a numbers game. isis is extremely successful at recruiting people. they recruit an average of 50 people a day. their message is simple. if you can't come here and fight with us, take to the streets with whatever you have, whether it is an improvised explosive
device, a firearm, a hatchet, whatever. go out. kill military, kill law enforcement, kill americans and help the cause like that. they're very good doing that. they outnumber us doing that. like the gentleman said know their media campaign is amazing. we need our own media campaign to counter theirs. it is the most cost effective and efficient way to at least begin trying to change the minds of these young people that are on the that fence. let's reach out to them the same way that isis is reaching out to them. >> stay with us. we have to squeeze in a break. they're treating this as an act. domestic terrorism. pete williams reporting there are indications this could be a case of foreign inspired terrorism. our coverage continues after this.
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welcome back to "hardball" and our coverage of the deadly rampage in chat noog. a earlier today, a gunman opened fire at two military facilities. four marines are dead. so is the shooter. nbc news has identified that shooter as a naturalized american citizen from kuwait their country with pride and they have been the victim of these shootings. we are conducting this as an act of domestic terrorism.
>> nbc news justice correspondent pete williams is reporting that sources say there are indications that today's attack is a case of foreign inspired terrorism. and joining me now, nbc news terrorism analyst evan koleman. so evan, let me start with you, on this reporting from pete williams, the idea this might be foreign inspired. we have that initial declaration in tennessee saying domestic terrorism. now maybe foreign inspired. does that change the understanding of what happened. >> it was an unusual turn to begin with. domestic terrorism. what is he referring to? a white prem sift group? or an act of an individual who has never left the united states or has not been outside the united states for a while and was doing this of his own accord? wasn't clear. if this is something, isis or al qaeda inspired, yeah. the idea of being radicalized online. there was no warning. this person wasn't in contact
with anyone overseas or part of a terrorist group. but it is important to say we don't know what his motivation was. we only know what his name is. if you look at the material online that has been ascribed to him, there is nothing specifically in there that says i want to carry out jihad. it merely says that jihad is a good thing. and while the language i would say is reminiscent of some of what anwar has referred to. this is not someone on the internet where they were loudly proclaiming their support for isis or radical jihad or al qaeda or that any of that. >> this is something you would have to go looking for to have found. the blog post may or may not have been his. >> even if you found it, you wouldn't necessarily know it was significant. the most interesting evidence there will be is what was in his vehicle? what was on his home computer? did he leave any kind of notes
behind? that's the kind of information that right now it seems like only the authorities know about and that's yits interesting that they switched the way that they're describing this and the way that they're describing this would pittsburgh they have evidence. but again, it is very important to emphasize right now, aside from this guy's name wefl no reason to indicate that he is pro isis, pro al qaeda prork any of that. there is no significant online presence that says this person is a jihadi inspired terrorist. as long as there isn't, we have to be careful about that. >> let me ask you. we're talking about the idea of this or any potential lone wolf attack. how to stop that. one of the obvious things, are people leaving clues online? so evan is saying, this blog post this guy might have put up didn't necessarily, it was not something you would look at and say we can see this one coming. from an investigator's standpoint, trying to preempt these things. what kinds of clues can you find realistically? >> you have to take totality of
the information you gather from a forensic analysis of all the computer cell phones, what is important, i couldn't help but my eyes went up when jim mentioned, we have to think big. and what i believe he is saying is that your best evidence is going to come from someone who heard him say something. he could have talked on someone. there is a witness. he could have handed something to someone. so it is very important the entire american public gets engaged in the war on terrorism. and as my good buddy knows. your best evidence comes from the mouth of a witness. so your. you're right. they could get this electronic data but where it will point? to more electronic information? but get a witness and you've got your motive. >> and jim, that's interesting. the idea of getting people out there. the old, if you see something, say something. they have that in the subways in new york all the time. the fear of this sort of thing
spreads outside of major cities, major obvious targets. that's something for people across the country to be thinking about a little bit. >> right. when we looked over the fourth of july, we talked about the preparation so much in new york and boston and washington, d.c. really, when we look at the history, if it is inspired. we don't know what has happened here yet. but with lone actors and two actors like the boston case or garland. they strike often near their home. they're from an area, they strike near there. new york is always a magnet, a target and certainly we understand that. here you are in chattanooga, tennessee. in other cases, you're in everywhere america. that weighed half a dozen in my area in a couple of states.
and we had all kinds of targets that the fbi knew about. all the agents from all the agencies and the state troopers and everybody worked on to find out just like evan described. what they're saying online. what does it really mean? are they really actors or just big talkers? and a guy mention in the jihad, and evan's analysis is brilliant. it is true. a guy mentions jihad online, that won't raise any hackles necessarily. jihad is something that is legitimately talked about in the world, islam for sure and it is not always a military evil thing. it is part of their religion so it can be innocent. if you put it on the heels of four murdered marines, it takes on a different cue. i think we have to look at it, on this issue of allowing people to be radicalized in america. do not put enough resources on it and we think too small on it.
when we think about it, we say, oh, there are 20,000, so many we can't do it. we can do it. better job. we won't be able to stop them all but the fbi arrested four people. they've done a great job. some guys slimmed through. >> you can always do better. this is something we can do with our technology and our heroes, our congress, our military. they might not be able to get through as much. when they final somebody, as evan will tell you, when they link somebody with twitter or an account, they circle around that person on the web and start bombarding them electronically. that this is the way to go, to kill, to die. the maybe there would be a way to interrupt that. >> we cover developments from chattanooga and we are awaiting a news conference with all the latest on the attacks.
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welcome back to "hardball." the other big story we're following tonight come from colorado where a judge just finished reading the verdict in the comment murder trial of james holmes. guilty. that is the verdict on every single count. in july of 2012, holmes opened fire at a soldout movie screening at a theater in aurora, colorado. he killed 12 people and wounded 70 others. the victim ranging in age from 6 years old to 51 years old. this was one of the deadliest mass shootings in the country's history. holmes defense lawyers conceded that he did carry out that shooting. he entered a not guilty plea by reason of insanity. the verdict comes three years
almost to the day after that horrific act of violence. i'm joined by scott, a lot of counts here. he was charged guilty on every single one of them. is that a surprise at all? >> reporter: i guess it depends how you looked at i going in. it took about an hour to read through all 165 counts. it was fairly clear from the beginning that it would be guilty across the board. really a sweeping verdict. what this does is it makes james holmes now eligible for the death penalty as the sentencing phase begins as soon as monday. what you couldn't see on the feed coming out of the courtroom that we all watch inside the feed is a room that was just overflowing with emotion. the foreperson of this jury, a man in his late 20s, early 30s, was at columbine high school. the worst shooting in colorado history. survived that and was friends
with the shooters through middle school. and he according to our team in the courtroom was looking at holmes, staring at holmes throughout as all these verdicts were read. >> all right. scott cohn on the scene there. thank you for that report. i appreciate that. i'm joined by lisa bloom, attorney and legal analyst from los angeles. my understanding of what the prosecutors were tasked with doing, an unusual challenge in a way. when somebody enters in the state of colorado, when somebody enters a not guilty by reason of insanity burden, the burden is on them to prove he is not insane. >> that's right. to prove that he is legally sane. that means that he knew the difference between right and wrong at the time of this horrific massacre. he did clearly have a mental illness. nobody disputes that. but many people have mental illnesses in america. the question is in this case and so many cases, was he able to tnlds difference between right
and wrong? the prosecutors put on a very strong case. over 200 witnesses to show that he planned this. he had elaborate notebooks and he even had the bobby trapped apartments so first when responders came to his home, they would be injured. he really thought it out in elaborate detail. and he did know right from wrong and therefore he was legally guilty. >> the idea of the not guilty by reason of insanity plea, it has been around for a while. i think it was john hinckley with the twinky defense. do you think people are more skeptical of that defense? >> i think there are people who are profoundly mentally ill where the juries will not apply it. and we saw the sniper case. that was a severely ill young man but the jury rejected that defense.
americans don't like that somebody committed a horrific crime but we'll let hill go. it feels like an excuse. what a lot of people don't understand, he would have been locked up in a psychiatric facility for a very long time. however, this case, surely both sides knew was all about the penalty phase. whether he will get death penalty or not. that's where the real trial begins, probably starting on monday. >> totally different case. in boston, we had that death penalty verdict given out to tsarnaev. thank you for your time. coming up, we return to the other major story. four marines dead many two shootings at military centers in chattanooga, tennessee. we'll talk to the mayor in just a moment. stay with us.
thanks for taking a if you minutes. we had the congressman from your area, chuck fleischmann on. he said in his lifetime he never would have imagined seeing a day like this in chattanooga. i imagine you're feeling the same. >> our hearts are broken for these families. we have a history of affiliating with our military and the idea that an individual went to two different locations where people who proudly serve our country were located, intending to do them harm and did harm to so many people is incomprehensible. >> and have you heard anything about the back ground of this shooter? some reports that i guess he might have been living in the community before this. not originally from there. are you hearing anything or learning anything about, did
people know him around there? did he have any kind of a reputation or anything? >> well, our investigation is ongoing. we have the fbi, the atf, chattanooga police department, the hamilton county sheriff's department, everybody right now is involved, answering every question possible. and over the next few days, i promise every resource we have as a community will be devoted to figuring out exactly what happened here. >> all right. mayor andy burke from chattanooga, tennessee. appreciate you taking a few minutes with us. we're back with steven rogers, a former member of the joint terrorism task force. manny gomez is retired from the fbi and a former police sergeant. we've been talking about this all night. the idea of the lone wolf, foreign inspired. one of the fears everybody has is the idea that this is something we'll have to live with going forward. the idea that we can declare war on terrorist organizations around the world, try to disrupt them, try to find out when they
have plots. now maybe we're entering this new world. even if you do all of that, all it takes is some guy, reading on the internet. never saying anything to anybody. maybe never even putting a blog post up. goes and buys a few guns. how likely is that it this is the new normal? >> it is the new norm. it has been the new norm for over a year now. we have to get used to the fact we have to be law enforcement's eyes and ears. a force multiplier if you will. and the simple saying. see something, say something. yeah. but we need to be aware of the things that we're looking out for. if we see an individual, it is 84 degrees out and he is wearing an overcoat and sweating, that's a clue. tell your local cop. let him with the experience and knowledge, training and resources, do that quick investigation to find out if there's a threat there. if you have a colleague at work
that all of a sudden overnight is different and talking craziness about killing people or killing soldiers, et cetera, report it. you may not think that it is anything. but report it to your local authorities. report it to the fbi. let them conduct the proper investigation. that's how the fbi and other local law enforcement have been able to identify, investigate and stop numerous attacks. they need everybody's help. >> on that point, that's one of those things, a lot of people when they're walking around, they see something. maybe in some way could be suspicious. there is that human instinct where we say i'm just being paranoid. crazy people out there who are sort of crazy and do different things. they just dismiss it. you were telling me an interesting story in the break about somebody who did say something and it led to something pretty big. can you tell us? >> the call to the police from the public always starts off with this phrase, i don't want
to bother you, officer, but. so this is an i don't want to bother you, officer but story. i got a call from a resident of our community. she explains to me that an individual had moved into her apartment complex two or three months ago, if you will, and said that the fellow was going around the area asking with neighborhood watch, asking about police patrols, asking about security. no one thought anything about this. until this happened. she was walking do you know the hallway of her apartment complex one morning. as she's walking past his apartment, he opens his door. she looks in. she notices that there is no furniture in the apartment and he's there several months. but steve, what caught her eye, was the largest map of the united states she ever saw with red dots in certain areas on that map. she said, i see something here. there's something not right. i'm going to call the police.
well, i had sent our detectives to conduct a preliminary investigation. we brought this individual into our police headquarters. we called the fbi. they took the guy into custody. i can't tell you what happened at that time. information sharing was not as it is today. but i can tell you this. nibble my heart based on the totality of the information we saw, that lady, that woman who saw something and said something did something very significant to help the police. so we need to let the people know. nothing is that insignificant. and you're not bothering us, please, make the call. >> that's a great story for people to hear. they hear that and then they probably hesitate. and that's what could happen if you don't hesitate. appreciate you both being here only the. we'll continue to monitor developments from chattanooga. bush is in the hospital being fitted for a neck brace.
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welcome back to "hardball." the sudden and awful events in chattanooga are reverberating on the presidential campaign trail with candidates left and right coming together to call for prayer and healing in the wake of the tragedy. most republican candidates immediately took to twitter to offer a unified message of sadness and of prayer. after a town hall in new hampshire today, hillary clinton began her press conference with condolences for those four lost marines. >> i just want to say a word about how tragic and regrettable it is that we lost four marines in an act of senseless violence, what is being called another instance of domestic terrorism.
it's terrible when we lose marines anywhere in the world, but to lose four in chattanooga, tennessee, is just heartbreaking. obviously my heart goes out to their families and to their colleagues and i hope that we can find a way to stop this kind of violence that is stalking our children, people in bible study and people who wear the uniform of our country. >> jonathan allen is the chief political correspondent with vox, so, jonathan, these are moments where in a way there's not much these candidates can say but these are candidates ditioning for the role of the head of state in this country and these are moments that test them in a way. >> these are moments that test them. obviously politics is a little bit on the side in a moment like this, a lot on the side in a moment like this, but we do hear these candidates showing that
they can -- they can act presidentially in a moment like this with the one exception of bobby jindal who used the moment to attack the president of the united states for what he said was failing to take on the challenge of radical islam -- >> yeah, let's actually -- i want to put that up. that is the exception, i guess, to the rule today. everybody's statements on this were pretty much identical except bobby jindal, the louisiana governor. he released a statement, as jonathan is saying there, on the shooting. he went after the president hard. he said, quote, it's time for the white house to wake up and tell the truth. and the truth is that radical islam is at war with us. we must start by being honest about that. this is grotesque. you cannot defeat evil until you admit that it exists. jonathan, i guess my reaction to this, why would bobby jindal make such a strident and political statement like this. i look at it and say bobby jindal is fighting to get one of those ten spots in the republican presidential debate
and he's ranked about number 15 right now if you look at the polls. he's got about three weeks to make something happen to get into the top ten. the only way you make something happen is if you throw a hail mary pass. you make a lot of noise and move up 3%, 4%, 5% and he's making noise. >> i think that's right. he's looking to distinguish himself from the rest of the republican field. i think he has in a way that's sadly very unpresidential. but i think he's making a play for religious bigotry as an attempt to get to that 2%, 3%, 4%, 5%, from being basically not on the map right now. we'll see whether it's effective in the polls. >> it's interesting too, i guess donald trump was speaking about an hour ago. apparently this did not come up in his speech. he simply said that his thoughts and prayers were with the families of the victims today. so even on this one donald trump, who is known for being so outrageous in the last few weeks, donald trump being very
mature on this one. >> that's amazing. bobby jindal has managed to make donald trump look completely rational, totally sane and by comparison presidential. look, what bobby jindal said in part is so obscenely stupid because we just watched a mass shooting in south carolina that had absolutely nothing to do with religion. i mean other than being in a church. >> all right. thank you to jonathan allen from vox. appreciate the time tonight. we'll be right back.
that's "hardball" for now. our coverage continues on "all in with chris hayes." tonight on "all in" -- >> we are conducting this as an act of domestic terrorism. >> a mass murder in tennessee. four marines killed, the alleged gunman is dead. tonight we're learning more about the motive. we'll go to chattanooga for the latest. then, the verdict in the colorado theater shooting is in. we'll go to aurora for the latest. plus, the president makes history inside an american prison. >> these are young people who made mistakes that aren't that different than the mistakes i made. >> and all in america water wars. there is a knockdown, drag-out fight over bottled water, and we got inside the bottling plant.