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tv   The Ed Show  MSNBC  July 30, 2015 2:00pm-3:01pm PDT

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a. let's get to work. tonight, cameras police and race. >> we have the video of the body camera, without it chances are we would never know what the prosecutors said happened. >> why do we believe that their word will somehow trump what is on a video cam. >> in all four cases where an officer has been charged, there is videotape. there have been zero prosecutions with no. >> what appears to be a piece of wreckage from malaysian airlines flight washed aboard. >> others are trying to outtrump each other. >> very importantly i am number one with the hispanics.
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>> on wednesday a university of cincinnati police officer was indicted on a murder charge for shooting an unarmed man. they called it a senseless assinine shooting. the incident captured on the body camera was evidence of what is going on. the prosecution described the video as crucial evidence to the case. just a warning. some may find the video disturbing. >> go ahead and take a seat. >> i didn't do nothing. >> take a seat. >> he is arguing self distance saying he was dragged by the car as it went away. videos like that are making a
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difference. the "new york times" points out police videos led to protests federal investigations police officers being charged and actual changes in policy and have changed some of the conversation about race in america. we have seen a number of videos having an impact this year a lone. viewers might find some of the following videos disturbing. july 10th prairie view texas. a texas state trooper threatening sandra bland with a stun gun. she was found dead in her cell allegedly killing herself. june 5, mckinney, texas. this video shows a police officer waving his gun at kids after a fight at a neighborhood pool shoving a young black girl's face into the ground. the officer involved in the incident resigned. april 12th baltimore, maryland. police dragging freddie green as
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he screamed in pain into a police transport van. he suffered a spinal injury in police custody and died as a result. six baltimore police officers were charged in his death. south carolina cell phone video shows the officer shooting walter scott as he ran away. the video shows him firing eight shots and casually walking over to scott. he was indicted on murder charges. last year the deaths of michael brown and eric garner all grabbed national headlines. in new york action is taken to change the way that killings are handled, appointing a special prosecutor to handle cases of civilians killed by police. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question should there be a federal law requiring
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police officers to wear body cameras. cast your vote. i will bring you the results later on in the show. for more paul henderson, a veteran prosecutor and legal analyst and paul butler former federal prosecutor and georgetown professor at the georgetown school of law. your reaction to the officer being charged. paul henderson, is this all about the video in this particular case? >> well it is in this case because the video is the linchpin indicating that the comments that were made by the officer as part of the investigation was a lie because he had told them that there was a struggle and because we had this video, we know that was not true. and that is why he was charged. obviously the video shows inappropriate behavior and escalation that occurred as well. but the video puts the nail on the head and sums it up as to why he will be charged and prosecutored in this case.
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>> absolutely. professor butler how significant is it that some officers are being charged now? does it set a precedent and suggest that yes, black lives matter and that these people cannot be treated routinely in such a manner. >> the video matters to people that don't believe what af african-americans have been saying for decades that police use excessive force this. is evidence. they can actually believe their own eyes. there are another group of people those that just don't care that police officers treat african-americans and other minorities roughly. for those people the videos still make a difference. >> well, in light of that either disinterest or disbelief, do you think body cameras on police officers have an impact here? they can be manipulated or
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turned off. what does it really solve? >> well it does solve a number of issues but raises issues too. i think throughout the nation different jurisdictions are stumbling over themselves and figuring out how they will incorporate the use of body cameras and dashcam cameras. we are seeing videos that are exposing behaviors as mr. butler was saying that have been known in many of the des encommunities for years. we are starting to see the copies of those videos in social media and on the internet. people are asking the question as to why are police behaving in this manner. i just want to point it out, it is not that every officer is interacting like this and having these bad encounters.
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these are people whose lives are at risk every day and do a good job for the most part. but we do have bad apples and actors up until this recent focus are being uncovered and exposed and address in the media and in the courts. >> professor butler in light of this, we all know that there are good cops to be sure. but that is not the test. the test is the cops that don't behave correctly under pressure harm the unarmed african-american people and do you think it will be a hard to get a conviction in any of the cases with the videos in place? >> you know it is extremely probative evidence that jurors take seriously. we have seen cases that at the end of the day hasn't resulted in a conviction. the rodney king case is the most famous example. sometimes michael, i wonder. again, black people have been
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complaining about the police for years. it is like other folks did not believe us until they see it with their own eyes. it is almost like corroboration is needed in order for african-american claims to be taken seriously like the days in which african-americans were not allowed to testify against white people without corroboration. >> are the cases going to rely solely on the videos and what type of pressure does that put on police people to disallow the taping of the videos. we have seen police officers say turn the video off and go away. will it change the atmosphere and the culture? >> i think that there are a number of ways to look at it. certainly all juries always want a picture. they always want a video. oftentimes you deal with a case
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of he said/she said. when you have a video to clarify that, that is always going to be more helpful than not, but it is not always the complete answer. oftentimes things are not shown on the video. subjective interpretations that need to be explained. you are still go to need the testimony from those officers. i think the bigger question is because we have the new introduction of body and dash cams. what does it mean in terms of what policing looks like. they are not necessarily being recorded but being reflected in the day-to-day operations in the local jurisdictions. >> the reason why you think that is so important is because for a lot of low income african-american men and women, the criminal justice system is the government. it is the most prominent
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manifestation of the state in their lives. it is about accountability of government. we really do need sunshine to see what is going on. >> well look professor butler charging the officers is one thing. how do you fix the problem overall? what do we do here? >> you know it is true. one issue are the police. again, a lot of the problem is excessive force. but some of the problem is just civility, the police do not treat a lot of african-americans and latinos with respect or courtesy. so one measure that the cameras lead to is just having folks treat each other better. that takes care of some of the issues with the police. but at the end of the day, we have to look at things like structure, like failing schools. like dysfunctional communities. like no jobs with living wages. these are some of the circumstances that get people
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involved in the justice system in the first place and last but not least, good old-fashioned basis. the reason why dubose and sandra bland got stopped because they were black. >> what do we make of this? this rash and siege of black death? mr. henderson what is your reaction to the governor cuomo appointing a special prosecutor to handle prosecution of police killing civilians. >> i think that it will expose the things mr. butler was alluding to. but now we are becoming more aware as a society. just a reminder outside of the communities that have a history and exposure and awareness to a pattern and the behavior that
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happened frequently with an overconcentration of stops, arrests, convictions, sentencing. now that we are having this at the forefront and it is a national conversation what i think the country is looking for are action steps to address the behavior and address it to make it a more inclusive society. when i hear that a governmental agency is assigning an independent overseer to examine and take action steps, i am encouraged by that. when i hear the federal government released the 21st century policing as a model of what local jurisdictions should be doing, i am encouraged by that. i think the real solution will take place when we start having more diversity in law enforcement and more training. not just at the academy but ongoing training so we get issues of implicit basis being discussed regularly by career
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officer law enforcement agencies that have interface and day to day interactions with many of these communities. that is where we will see the solution. but overall i am encouraged by the governor taking a stand and taking that position. >> professor butler are special prosecutors the answer? and we are dealing with implicit basis and the kinds of bigotries that are often unconscious and triggered by unconscious cues that we are given that blackness is evil or problematic or dangerous, even when police people practice their craft. how do we deal with the deeper and more profoundly entrenched ideals that are in the culture that have to do with how we deal with black people that lead to this? >> i think that special prosecutors are a way forward
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and advancement. i worked with cops every day. you develop so much respect for them. they have some of the hardest jobs in the world. it is not that you are trying to excuse bad conduct. you are more sympathetic and need them make your cases. for us the implicit basis, there is good news there. you know when people take the tests and they are shown white and black people with a wrench and a gun, they recognize the wrench quickly if it is a white person. they are more likely to see a gun if it is an african-american. >> including black people. >> including black people. but police officers do better on those tests than the general population. that suggests that we are all biased. but it can be overcome. we can be trained. we cannot act on our basis. i am not looking for a moment where every officer will love me
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because i am an african-american. >> all right. >> let me jump in here. >> very quickly. >> one of the things that is really important to that is that we have to look at the pattern of behavior of many of the incidents we are talking about, we are talking about the encounters with the interactions for no license or shoplifting. >> this is the broken window's theory to come to crash on us. small infractions and it leads to death. i wish we had more time. we will get you back on. thank you so much for your time tonight. remember to answer tonight's question. we will have the results after the break. still ahead, could the wreckage of a plane that washed ashore on an island in the indian ocean be part of missing flight mh370? we will talk to the
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investigator. and donald trump leads the field in the new polls. more on that ahead. leave early go roam sleep in sleep out star gaze dream big wander more care less beat sunrise chase sunset do it all. on us. get your first month's payment plus five years wear and tear coverage. make the most of summer... with volvo. are you moving forward fast enough? everywhere you look, it strategy is now business strategy. and a partnership with hp can help you accelerate down a path created by people, technology and ideas. to move your company from what it is now... to what it needs to become.
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>> here is where we stand tonight. should there be a federal law requiring police officers to wear body cameras? keep voting throughout the hour. we will be right back. the signs are everywhere. the lincoln summer invitation is on. get exceptional offers on the luxury small utility mkc mkz sedan... ...the iconic navigator. and get a first look at the entirely new 2016 mid-size utility lincoln mkx. your choice of mkc mkz gas or hybrid
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mh370 mysterious vanished. >> it is quite feasible that the wreckage could have travelled that distance in the 16 months since the aircraft presumably went into the water. indeed if there is a discovery of wreckage on reunion island it would tend to confirm that the aircraft has gone into the ocean, the indian ocean. that we should concentrate our efforts on the search area that has been identified. >> investigators say that they are almost certain the debris did come from a boeing 777. but did it come from mh370. they may be able to determine that within the next couple of days. the piece was found on the island of reunion in the western indian ocean, it clearly has
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been in the water for some time. it is called a flaperon and it is a part of the wing. investigators found a number on the fragment which could help them identify it quickly. mh370 disappeared in march 2014 with 239 passengers and crew. not a trace has been seen since. it is believed to have gone down in the southern indian ocean and computer models predicted debris would wash up in this area around this time. if this is from mh370 you can expect more debris to wash up in the coming weeks. australia is leading the search for the main wreckage and already searched 19,000 square miles of sea floor. >> let's bring in a safety analyst and former investigator. what are investigators looking for specifically with this fragment that will be of help? >> michael, they are go to try
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to confirm that this part is in fact off of the aircraft that has been identified. they do have numbers on the aircraft that corresponds to a flaperon on a boeing 777. they will confirm that. they will look at the damage to determine what type of impact this part was exposed to low speed or high speed. what i have seen looks like a low speed impact where the damage to the flaperon was minimized. because this is a movable control surface. >> let's get a baseline definition. what is a flaperon? >> when you look out the window you see the trailing edge. those are the trailing edge
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flaps. the flaperon is part of the landing configuration. they lock out the ailerons the tips at the end of the wing structure where if you want to move left or right they move up and down. it serves a dual purpose in this aircraft. >> sure. we have been hearing about the sea life and barnacles on the debris. what will that tell us? where the spot of the crash was? what specifically will it give us? >> i think from that standpoint the marine biolgists will look at the barnacles that have grown on this wreckage and determine how long it takes to grow this particular barnacle whether it is a month or three or six. to understand how long the piece of wreckage has been afloat. one of the big issues is that
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this was found on an island. we don't know how long the piece has been hovering in the area of the island before someone saw it due to a storm surge or pushing it on to shore. if this part is floating for 200 days and you reverse engineer where the origin is that is different than if it was floating for 500 days which could take it further back down to the southern and eastern track, if you will. there will be a lot of science to figure out where the origin of this wreckage started and how it drifted to this island. >> fascinating. we will look to you for more information in the future. greg, thank you so much for joining us. >> you are welcome. >> the outrage continues over the death of a beloved lion in african. the dentist who killed it is now in hiding. and a new poll says bernie
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sanders would win the presidential race if he were up against donald trump. we will break down the numbers ahead. wait, i can freeze my account. [touch tone] introducing freeze it, from discover. it allows you to prevent new purchases on your account in seconds if your card is misplaced. not here... ♪ and once you find your card, you can switch it right on again. hey...you're back! [touch tone] freeze it, only from discover. get it at discover.com.
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in total savings on tools to manage your business. backlash against the minnesota dentist who killed a beloved lions are growing to new proportions. kevin tibbles of nbc news has the story. >> the big game hunter is now the target of animal activists and critics, angry with walter palmer following his admission that he killed the beloved lion named cecil in africa. outside his closed dental officer a memorial of stuffed animals and signs for cecil the lion has grown. >> had i known he was a horrible vicious big game sport huntirer i would not be visiting
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his practice for all of these years. >> in a letter to patients he said he had no idea the lion hunt may have been illegal and vowed to cooperate with authorities saying i don't often talk about hunting with my patients because it can be a devisive and emotionally charged topic. critics have been loud. deluging the yelp page for his practice with thousands of negative comments. one petition asked president obama to ex traindict him to zimbabwe to face possible criminal charges. others like ted nugent came to his defense saying all animals reproduce every year and would run out of room/food to live without hunting. cecil was 13. fitted with a tracking color and studied by researchers. >> the lion cecil, was a
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remarkable individual. remarkable because we have studied him for so long. >> experts say his killing could endanger the safety of his cubs. >> young males might try to come in and take over the pride. if successful they can kill all of the young from the previous dominant male. >> that was kevin tibbles from nbc news. cecil the lion's death was discovered because he wore a tracking device. there could be other egregious killings of animals we do not know about, similar to african-american people dying at the hands of police. the video proved it and now we have evidence of what is going on here. >> exactly right. why this psychotic behavior was taking place, a couple thousand miles away at the same time in the national park in kenya, five
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elephant males were murdered for their tusks. 135 pounds each. $1.2 million on the black market. it also highlights the fact that we are in the midst of the sixth great mass extinction. in the last 30 years alone 50% of all wildlife is gone. and for sea birds, that is 70%. 230 million animals gone at the hands of humans. >> wow. that is a pretty astonishing number. some trophy hunter advocates say their activity funds activism. >> anybody that hunts animals for funs is displaying psychotic behavior. number two, if they are have a
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lot of disposable income my best income is to get yourself a really good camera get up really close and get great shots and buy 500 or 1,000 billboards put your name on it and allow the wild animals to be free. in the last 30 years the lion population has been halved. i think really the answer here is that love is the solution and that if people are really moved by all of this that they can consider a plant-based diet. go vegan. each of us are powerful and we together can make a hell of a difference michael. >> do you think the outrage over the lion killing will bring a greater folk to us environmental and wildlife issues and up the ante for people that have this type of behavior?
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>> absolutely. it is a seed of goodness comes out of this and it raises people's consciousness. compassion and love is what we have. that is really all we have. together, i think the most important thing is that we are powerful. and when we come together we move mountains. >> let me ask you this very brief question. there has been a lot of controversy with the black lives matter movement saying we are deeply and profoundly concerned about animals but we see a greater interest in animals of the wild kingdom than here. can you speak to the issue of the tremendous pressure character of the animals lives as well. >> all of us matter. and i think that here is what a lot of people don't understand. in these developing countries like a zimbabwe organized crime
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has moved in. organized crime is running the poaching and the looting. and they pay cash on the barrel for tusks, for rhino horns, for big game hunting. $55,000 was paid to lure illegally cecil the lion out of this reserve. you know we have to get back here that we are all part of the ecosystem. people and animals and plants and air and water. if we remove all of the animals, we are going to be next. >> all right. reese, thank you so much for joining us today. still to come on "the ed show." they say there is no crying in baseball but one player proved them wrong. stay with us. >> i am courtney reagan with your market wrap.
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the dow falls five points. s&p up just a fraction and nasdaq gaining 17 points. shares of linked in are moving between gains and losses. the economy grew at 2.3% at an annual rate for the second quarter. first quarter figures were revised to show a fractional gain from a previously reported infraction. that's it from cnbc. we are first in business worldwide. this summer, challenge your preconceptions and experience a cadillac for yourself. ♪ the 2015 cadillac srx. lease this from around $339 per month, or purchase with 0% apr financing. what do a nascar® driver... a comedian...
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the republican candidate field has swelled to 17 candidates. former virginia governor jim gilmore made his announcement today. the scramble for recognition and donations is furious.
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many candidates are headed to the koch primary in california hosted by the chamber of commerce a non-profit owned by the koch brothers. donald trump is headed to the golf course. the frontrunner says the kochs can keep their money. his confidence is not shaken by missing any state side events. >> the poll today had me with 16 or 17 candidates had me at 25% and the next person was at 12%. that is a big difference. we represent a very big section. >> not many of the immigrant populations. >> i did well. the hispanics, a poll came out two days ago where i am number one with the hispanics. i know you are surprised to hear that. >> trump is right. despite the fact that 59% of hispanics polled found trump
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unfavorable his numbers were enough to stomp out republican competition and leads the charge in the gop even after referring to mexican immigrants as rapists and murderers. but donald trump is not a match for hillary clinton. 28% to against her 61%. joining me now is henry fernandez. and mitch cesar, executive board member of the democratic national committee. why is trump leading the hispanic vote in light of his troubling comments. >> let's be really clear here and i want to dispel the idea he is leading the latino vote. only about 22% of latinos identify as republican. so, there is a question as to whether or not he is leading among that much smaller segment of the latino population. when you look at the polling
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done we don't have just among republican latinos, we do not have a large enough sample size to say he is doing okay. there hasn't been a poll of national latino voters or national latino republican voters to indicate that he has support. there has been national polling of latino voters in the general election and on trump specifically. and in that case currently he polls around 13% of support. that is only about 13% of latinos have a favorable view of donald trump. when we look at what a republican would have to do to win a presidential general election they would need 47%. donald trump does not come close to that. he is actually massaging the numbers. he does not have that level of support and certainly doesn't lead among latino voter it is.
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>> can trump maintain this momentum? because whatever he has got in terms of manipulating and massaging the numbers, he has got it. >> i think everybody misjudged him. he realized before he got into the race that he is not a politician. he is a celebrity. he is a personality. he is a brand. i would be willing to bet over the years, because of his marketing skills he tested that brand in a million surveys when nobody was watching. i think he can continue and he can continue because the field is so large. people have to understand because he is not a politician you can't use the same typical rules against him. the media hasn't picked up on it until now. his opponents have not either. he does not have to give explanations. he talks about putting up a wall on the boarder to the south. no explanation why. he doesn't have to. that is the brand.
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when you saw recently in the last day they talked about folks that they interviewed in special groups who were trump supporters. you heard words like optimistic. he is like us which i found bizarre, or going to be a great person as the nominee. the view of him is very different. he is go to continue the way he is going until the field things out. he can stay there until the very end. in the long run that helps jeb bush because it clears the other debris out of his way. >> no doubt about that. i want to show you the latest poll out of florida. trump leads jeb bush 26 to 20. what do you make of the numbers? >> actually i think that poll is in new hampshire right now. jeb bush and marco rubio are leading in florida. let's remember how we got to this situation with donald trump and why he does so poorly among
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latinos. donald trump called mexican immigrants rapists and criminals. this is consistent with a history that mr. trump has with dog whistle racism. i want to be very clear about this. we are talking about someone that helped to lead the birther effort against president obama trying to allege that president obama was not from the united states, was not born here. this is someone that the department of justice has sued trump's companies for failing or unwillingness to rent to african-americans. so he has a history. and that is why we are seeing these kinds of numbers. why is he still doing well generally among republicans in places like new hampshire. he is now in second place in iowa. it is because despite the fact that he has this history, we have not seen republican
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leadership come out against this type of extremism over the last several years. we have seen the extremism as well on capitol hill from people like steve king talking about immigrants and people of color and unless republican leadership stands out against these things they will continue to have this trump problem. i think right now where we are is that donald trump hasn't been forcefully ejected from the republican party from these kind of statements and this is the result. >> all right gentlemen, i wish we had more time. we will invite you on again to have this stimulating conversation. thank you so much. >> thank you, michael. >> still ahead, a new report says democrats are frustrated with hillary clinton dodging key issues in the campaign. stay with us.
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expand or relocate to new york state pay no taxes for 10 years. all to grow our economy and create jobs. see how new york can give your business the opportunity to grow at ny.gov/business here are the results of tonight's poll. tonight's question should there be a federal law requiring police officers to wear body cameras. keep voting until the end of the hour. we will be right back.
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in tonight's two-minute drill, there's no crying in baseball. but last night there was. new york mets wilmer flores had to fight back tears against the san diego padres when he thought he had been traded. reports were flying across social media. somehow it got to flores. fans heard the rumor and gave him plenty of support throughout the game. they cheered for him every time he stepped on to the field. it wasn't until after the game 23-year-old flores learn he was staying put in new york. the mets general manager said there is no trade. >> unfortunately, social media, et cetera got ahead of the facts and may have had an adverse effect on one of the
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players rumored to be involved. >> stick around. there's a lot more coming up on "the ed show" coming up.
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my name is jamir dixon and i'm a locate and mark fieldman for pg&e. most people in the community recognize the blue trucks as pg&e. my truck is something new... it's an 811 truck. when you call 811, i come out to your house and i mark out our gas lines and our electric lines to make sure that you don't hit them when you're digging. 811 is a free service. i'm passionate about it because every time i go on the street i think about my own kids. they're the reason that i want to protect our community and our environment, and if me driving a that truck means that somebody gets to go home safer, then i'll drive it every day of the week. together, we're building a better california.
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i was involved in this process and my assessment is that it is not appropriate, nor fair for me to prejudge in a public arena what secretary kerry and president obama eventually have to decide. and therefore, i will not do it. and i am sorry if people want me
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to. i've been very clear. i will not express an opinion until they have made a decision. and then i will do so. >> welcome back to "the ed show." hillary clinton's refusal to take a position on the pipeline is catching the attention of some democrats. today clinton said she's had several conversations with workers about the tpp. an article on the hill points out, clinton's has not of being cautious could hurt her. she could end up alienating liberal democrats in the process. it shows in the poll numbers. a new quinnipiac poll shows 37% of voters do not trust her. on the flip side bernie sanders's favor sablt at positive 7. 42% haven't heard enough about him. the poll shows bernie sanders beating donald trump by 7 points in a match-up.
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clinton beats trump by 12 points. bernie sanders's campaign is focusing on a grassroots effort to elect the candidate. last night, his volunteers hosted over 3,000 grassroots gathering to mobilize foot soldiers for his campaign. over 100,000 people packed houses, coffee shops and other venues around the country. bernie sanders delivered this video message to supporters. >> we need your help knocking on doors. we need your help making phone calls. we need your help to talk to your brothers and your sisters, your co-workers your family members. bring them in. we will make history in november of 2016. >> bernie sanders says last night marked the largest grassroots campaign of the 2016 season. for more let me bring in harold cook, a texas political strategist. mr. cook will clinton's cautious -- how are you? will clinton's cautious strategy hurt her? >> well it could if it goes too
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far. i think she would probably adjust as she goes along. here's what i think she is probably thinking her choices are at this point. she can focus on her primary election which most candidates don't want to do if they don't have to. then they'll box themselves in to positions that primary voters like but maybe not general election voters in all cases. or if she is not being pushed in a primary sheks perhaps focus on a general election with a more central centrist message. and all things equal, most candidates would rather focus neither and be focused on governing before they're ever elected. that way they don't have to make any promises to anybody which is clearly not good for voters but great for candidates. i've said all along that i think if secretary clinton treats this democratic primary process like a coronation, she will be in a lot of trouble. if she treats it like a real
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race then i think bernie sanders maybe ends up being a thorn in her side but definitely not a knife in her back. if she starts getting into trouble, i think she is perfectly capable and willing to adjust and come out with stronger statements and fill in the missing link that may frustrate some democratic voters. >> well knife or thorn if you will he is pretty pickly. do democrats care that hillary clinton is not answering questions on key stone or tpp? >> i think some of them do. in the final analysis i have yet to see any polls among democratic voters that show bernie sanders anything higher than 18 or 19 percentage points and hillary clinton any lower than 56 57 percentage points. she is still the formidable front-runner. her support has been eroding but not much yet. and i think a cautious candidate
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like clinton, i think she will come out with a strong position only issue but i don't think she will change who she is. she's always been a cautious communicator. and i think that's probably dm. >> president obama has been quite cautious himself and that is in the end, played to his advantage. how does clinton get her number up? >> i'm not sure she needs her numbers up. they're where they ought to be as far as democratic support is kernel. in the final analysis you and i both know this isn't about democratic support. it is about winning a general election, assuming she is the nominee. she has to show that she is fully capable and happy of leveling with the american people in such a way that makes them comfortable, that she's trustworthy and rth tocoming.
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and i don't think she's done that yet. it is very early in the process. >> no question about it. harold cook thank you for your time tonight. >> any time michael. >> that's "the ed show." i'm in for ed schultz. "politics nation" starts right now. >> tonight on "politics nation," the body cam murder case. official investigating other officers in the police shooting of an unarmed man in cincinnati. and donald trump taking center stage. literally. with reports of chaos behind the scenes of the first gop debate. plus the comedy skit that has gone viral making a serious point about how we value athletes and teachers.

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