tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC August 31, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
about, you can set your clock for 10:00 a.m. tomorrow. this is it. your uncle who watches fox news all day is due to send you an all capital we will see you again tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word." alex wagner sitting in for lawrence. republicans holding their breath and waiting for the trump bubble to burst are going to have to wait a little longer to exhale. >> when i'm president -- [cheers and applause] we're going to have so many victories. right now we don't have victories anymore, do we agree? we're going to have so many victories they're going to be coming out of your ears. we will win on health care. we will win on everything. >> donald trump's favorability is surging. >> he's been dominating all the polls in every state. and it turns out he's getting into the heads of his opponents as well.
>> now's not the time to put in place someone who's not been tested. >> i'm a proven conservative with a record. >> what do you do if you're trying to get attention and donald trump is taking all of the oxygen? >> at any moment, fedex can tell you where that package is. >> chris christie talked about tracking immigrants. >> stampings people, i guess, with bar codes. >> what happened to scott walker? >> walker has been swept away these days which the trump storm. >> there's a lot of work that go the into these races, the biggest spark for us is getting the message out. >> trump, you had my vote, but now kanye west. >> i have decided in 2020 to run for president! every day of this summer of trump, the republican establishment has hoped for the
bursting of the trump bubble, the ending of his carnival candidacy, and passage of trump's white house ambitions into the night like those of michele bachmann and herman cain. right now there is a new poll that shows trump losing, but unfortunately for the republican establishment, he is losing to ben carson. they did matchups, republican primary voters prefer trump to senator marco rubio by 8 points, they prefer trump to scott walker by 14 points and they prefer trump to jeb bush by 25 points, but they prefer dr. ben carson to donald trump, 49% to 43%. what might explain carson's edge? evangelical republicans. but he loses evangelicals against others.
if the summer of trump becomes the autumn of carson, what's donald's next move? >> third party's concerned, the republican party has been treating me very, very fairly. all i ask is fairness. and i'm leading in every poll by a lot. we're leading in every state by a lot. that would certainly be the best path to victory, and we're going to make a decision very soon. >> new york magazine has a take. he refuses to accept the role of loser. what do you get? one very strong possibility is that you get trump declaring a third-party run. remember, we are gaining at the scenario where trump entered the
race without much planning. more as a way to keep the media circus going from one day to the next rather than a long-term strategy. he bolts the party, claiming some slight and keeps the circus going all through november. jonathan chait joins us. and david from senior editor at the "atlantic." trump going all through november, those are chilling words for any republican who has watched this race. >> it's pretty terrifying for them, because a donald trump third-party candidacy would eliminate any chance they have of winning the presidential election. so that's absolutely the atom bomb that trump has his finger on, and they've got to figure out a way to defuse that.
the latino vote has been growing as a share of the electorate and becoming more democratic. so they're caught between this vice of these two unpalatable options, and trump has two different ways of killing them. and i don't know how they can avoid both of them. >> and then governor dean, you look at the man who's climbing up and eroding a little bit of trump's lead, dr. ben carson, are you surprised about dr. carson's staying power and his ascendance? >> i'm a little surprised. i don't see much of him. he's not a big player in the debates. he doesn't get in the press visiting iowa and new hampshire nearly, i mean, the oxygen's been sucked out of his room just like it has everybody else by trump. here's interesting thing for me, as far as i know ben carson has no organization whatsoever, nearly does carly fiorina, neither do a lot of these other candidates. you cannot win in iowa, i don't
care what your numbers are. you can't win in iowa without an organization. we do know trump has the means to put one together if he wants to. so i, this poll, i mean, i'm sure it's a true poll, an accurate poll, but it really doesn't reflect anything about anything. and we're really not going to know what's going to happen in this race until february 1st. >> david, it seems like you're trying to unpack the popularity of carson. he's a doctor who's spoken out vociferously. i want to play a little bit of sound right after carson criticized president obama to his face at a national prayer breakfast. this was the reaction from the right. let's take a listen. >> dr. carson, i got to tell you, that speech moved me deeply. very well done. what's the reaction been so far? >> well, the reaction has been overwhelming. we've been just deluged with e-mails, with calls.
>> would you ever run for president, sir? >> if the lord grabbed me by the collar and made me do it, i would. it's not my intention. >> i wouldn't wish that on you, but i would vote for new a heartbeat. >> thank you. i have so many e-mails from people saying that. i could probably finance my campaign if each one gave me a nickel. >> david, here we are, and now we're talking about ben carson as a let viable candidate for the republican nomination. what do you think his staying power is in this? is it going to be an autumn of carson? >> somebody has to speak fort conventional wisdom, and i'm not afraid to do it. i think both carson and trump will deflate. as the governor said, organization matters. also people who know in politics know this, when you run for a big-time office, every day you have an opportunity, dozens of opportunities to commit a lethal mistake. so the opportunity to make that
lethal mistake, they haven't availed themselves. i think particularly this summer of trump has been, for all the difficulties, on balance, a positive thing for the republican party, because it has been a cold mackerel in the face of reality to the whole republican party, that an economic agenda that the party offered in 2012 and is on the verge of offering again in 2016, it doesn't offer much to ordinary republican voters. never mind the country as a whole, to most of the people who make up the republican party. that agenda is being rejected. and this is a reality check. and it's an opportunity to learn and to do better and to say donald trump has not made removing health care subsidies the center of his campaign. and if the republican party in 2016 advances on the proposition that, vote for us, and we'll take away health coverage for millions of people, that is not a successful formula. and this is maybe an opportunity
to rethink. >> and to that point, governor dean, there's a "new york times" headline today talking about fears over donald trump's ideas that he wants to raise taxes on hedge fund managers. that it's an anathema to the republican party. he has figured out a brand of economic populism that seems to be working well with the grassroots which is not at all what the establishment has been proposing, and in a weird way has some real through lines with occupy and the tea party movement of 2007. >> well, trump is nothing if not a master showman. he's pretty insightful. we all at the beginning thought this was a blow hard that was going to fall apart. he survived error after error that would have killed anybody else in the field. so, and he gets what populace economics are about. the numbers are incredible on both sides of the aisle in terms of people who feel like they've been left behind in this economy.
so i think he's on to something. i expect him to blow himself up, too. but i've been expecting that for a long time, and i haven't seen it. he's pretty damn good on the stump, i have to say. >> pretty damn good on the stump says governor dean, but a cold mackerel to the face of jeb bush. trump has been unrelenting in his criticism of the presumed republican establishment front runner. he released a comment on instagram criticizing trump's comments where he called illegal immigration an act of love. let's look at that short video. >> yes, they broke the law. but it's not a felony. it's kind of, it's a, it's an act of love. >> okay. so jonathan, on the issue of immigration, i don't understand how the republican, sort of, narrative is rehabilitated post trump even if he splinters off
to become a third-party candidate. >> the first thing we have to say is that ad is just a lie, because jeb bush there is talking about people emigrating to the united states as an act of love. he's not saying that murdering people is an act of love. so trump has completely misrepresented what jeb bush was saying there. but the problem for the party from that perspective is that donald trump has almost broken through popular culture and out of the political debate into popular culture as the symbol of anti-latino racism. he's not making sophisticated points about immigration reform or saying maybe we should cut back on levels or enforce the laws better. he's just making bigoted and nasty comments about people who came to this country in violation of immigration laws, but they did it for a noble reason of giving their family a better life. and i don't see how republicans are going to win back those communities if they have this man as their face.
>> and david, what of jeb bush? i mean, steve schmitt, presidential soothsayer for many, says every day donald trump is emasculating jeb bush. and republican party voters are not going to default to the establishment candidate who's been weakened by these attacks. i mean, what do you do if you're jeb bush? >> you don't respond. jeb bush, i wrote an article a few days ago. what happens when a campaign is in trouble, your supporters call you up, and they always have the same advice. take off the gloves. and jeb bush has a lot of donors whose calls he has to take, and eventually, enough people telling you to take off the gloves you take off the glove, which means he's now in an insult contest with the reigning champion. the $125 million is supposed to give you the staying power to keep ignoring trump until trump blows up on his own.
the next trump ad will be even worse. it will be about jeb bush saying he wanted to phase-out medicare for people under 55. >> cold mackerels all around. in the words of darrell issa, step away from the trump. that's paraphrasing. coming up, donald trump's latest line of attack has nothing to do with china or mexico and everything to do with these so-called perverts and access to classified information. and if kanye west actually runs for president -- i just said that sentence -- what should be his campaign slogan? the twitterverse responds. watching football together is great... ...but i think women would agree... ...huddling with their man
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for us to look at. >> governor scott walker's campaign is trying to do damage control after he caused an international incident this weekend. despite the attempts of some to put words in his mouth, governor walker wasn't advocating for a wall along our northern border, but it seems to be a little late. jason kenney responded, as you know, we also found there are some american political actors that are not aware of the progress made on continental security. i can tell you as the former minister of immigration that canada has a much greater legitimate concern about the northward flow of illegal migration than the united states does of a southward flow of illegal migration. senator rand paul said a northern wall was a dumb idea. while twitter got a better response. will trump and scotty have a door off? one tweeted, scott walker wants to build a wall on the canadian/u.s. border to keep
americans from escaping if he becomes president. and another tweet, too late to keep out ted cruz. up next, donald trump versus anthony weiner and hillary clinton. if you qualify for a sittingham's card today i can offer you no interest for 24 months. thanks to the tools and help at experian.com, i know i have an 812 fico score, so i definitely qualify. so what else can you give me? same day delivery. the ottoman? thank you. fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions.
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it is still unclear what will come out of this latest release, but that doesn't matter to donald trump, who is already sounding the alarm on one of clinton's staff members. he targeted huma abedin for her alleged role in the controversy. >> here's the story. so huma now, it all came through huma. who is huma married to? >> anthony wiener! >> one of the great sleazebags of our time. anthony wiener, do you know that? she's married to anthony wiener. you know, the little bing, bing, bing, bong, bong. i love you very much. no, think of it. so huma is getting classified secrets.
she's married to anthony wiener, who's a perv. do you think there's even a 5% chance he's not telling anthony wiener now of a public relations firm, what the hell is coming across? do you think there's even a little bit of a chance? i don't think so. >> the following day donald trump defended those attacks. >> were you too hard? >> no, i think it's a very dangerous thing when she's receiver of so much of this very important information, and she's married to a guy who is psychologically disturbed. >> he reaffirmed his position, tweeting huma abedin, the wife of perv sleaze back anthony wiener was a major security risk as a collector of info. and back with us are jonathan chait and howard dean.
this seems to be a way to mispronounce huma abedin and to say that she's the wife of sleazebag anthony wiener. go ahead, jonathan chait. >> yeah, there's two of us. there's so many bizarre things about this episode that you could have showed. one of them was that this was a political speech by a candidate for president who's kind of rambling on and on about inside washington politics in a way you just don't see presidential candidates do. and the second thing that you almost never may not have noticed because the first thing is so weird, is that donald trump is running on the theme of marital and sexual propriety. no one expected this to be one of his themes. >> yeah. >> this is a guy who -- >> huma abedin is known inside
the beltway, but this has elevated her. what do you think of that strategy? >> number one, he definitely wants to tie her and hillary clinton to anthony wiener in that scandal, which isn't that difficult to do, obviously. look. i think donald trump also likes going after anybody who, who's foreign or whose parents are foreign. we've seen that in a lot of venues. part of his protectionism. even before, this goes back a long time, there are allegations from huma abedin, michele bachmann that she was somehow in with bad guys overseas. this is a slur against huma abedin. it may turn out that she had classified information in her e-mail, but her telling anthony wiener about it, nobody's accused her of doing that. calling wiener a perv, this is a
guy who joked he would have dated his own daughter were she not his daughter. >> and joked that even recently. >> donald trump's living in a big, fat glass house on a lot of this stuff, including his psychological analysis of a lot of people. >> the news of this particular hour is also that there's a new trove of clinton e-mails being released. and you want to turn your attention to a washington post report that says there is an acknowledgement that the issue has been badly handled and has given rise to broader worries about clinton's worthiness and sense of entitlement. wng to have to talk about it until the press gets something more than donald trump to talk about. there's no "there", there. her, because at the time they
weren't marked classified, or the state department, as it often does, as standard operating procedure, to classify stuff after the fact, which is what's going on right now. so i don't think, in the long run, i don't think it's going to hurt hillary, but it's hurt her some because the republican talking points are pretty good. and the press core's not as up to speed as it ought to be. the "new york times" is know best papers in the country has printed two stories that were lerong, one about the e-mails and one abth financial donations. that's pretty bad. these guys ntoet life. and when the campaign gets more life than donald trump's nonsense, perhaps these issues will be more seriously, taken more seriously. >> the inspectors general of the state department and the intelligence communities were concerned enough that there was a breach of national security to recommend that the fbi open a criminal investigation into it. they are obviously concerned the way that this e-mail was handled.
that's not something a reporter should just ignore, is it? >> i don't think a reporter should ignore it, but i think they should put down the facts. the facts are that hillary clinton had very little to do with what the fbi's investigating. it's been pretty clear that hillary clinton's not been accused of that, other than partisans and reporters who are too lazy to get their facts straight. >> john chait, there's another factor, which is bernie sanders. there's a bloomberg poll, that, if you look at support for clinton and sanders, her support is, we look at bernie sanders lied that's increasing. do you think that has anything to do with e-mails? is that about economic populism? and is there some concern that bernie sanders is a real threat, especially in early states like iowa?
>> i don't think he's got the chops to go all the way. and i don't think anybody does. and i don't think bernie sanders is running to be the nominee. he's running because he has ideas he cares about. he wants to use this forum to talk about those ideas and push the nominee whom he probably knows is going to be hillary clinton his way. the fact that he's had more success is probably going to make that easier for him to do, to get more attention, but i don't think he's built to hold up to front runner type scrutiny. and if he gets into that position. maybe he'll be getting examined as a person, and, you know, throughout his whole history, he doesn't necessarily want, i'm not saying there's any scandals. i'm not trying to imply anything. but where he wants to be is the guy who's talking about ideas. he doesn't want to be examined and scrutinized as a front runner. >> thanks for your time. coming up, your suggestions.
your suggestions for kanye west's 2020 presidential campaign slogan. and later, president obama versus president mckinley, a battle 114 years in the making. ♪ ♪ (dorothy) toto, i've a feeling we're not in kansas anymore... (morpheus) after this, there is no turning back. (spock) history is replete with turning points. (kevin) wow, this is great. (commentator) where fantasy becomes reality! (penguin 1) where are we going? (penguin 2) the future, boys. the glorious future. (vo) at&t and directv are now one- bringing your television
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>> yes, as you probably could have guessed by this moment, i have decided in 2020, to run for president. [cheers and applause] >> in fact, nobody had guessed it by that moment. nobody. but in just 24 hours since the announcement, kanye west for president 2020 has seen a wave of support. several websites dedicated to the candidate have popped up, including kanye 2020.com with a countdown to the election. the democratic party tweeted last night@kanye west, welcome to the race, glad to have you. and today paperwork was filed
for the ready for kanye political action committee. the white house is thinking the same thing at rest of us. the white house press secretary john earnest says he can't wait to see what he embroiders on his campaign hat. joe tweeted yesus we can. another was beyonce deserves to run for president. and one tweet, yes, we kanye. and our very own producer, no one man should have all that power except me. coming up, president obama reality tv star. some questions can't wait
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such a shame it's labeled a "getaway." life should always feel like this. hampton. we go together. always get the lowest price, only when you book direct at hampton.com what's happening in alaska isn't just a preview of what will happen to the rest of us if we don't take action. it's our wakeup call. the alarm bells are ringing. and as long as i'm president, america will lead the world to meet this threat before it's too late.
>> president obama began a three-day trip to alaska today as part of his administration's effort to draw attention to the effects of climate change. on top of meeting with native alaskans and touring melting glaciers, president obama will use an unorthodox method to spread his message. he's going into the alaskan wilderness with bear grylls. president obama will become the first sitting u.s. president to star in a reality tv show with bear grylls, in case you were wondering. it is just sort of an admittedly unorthodox but legitimately interesting way for president obama to reach an audience that cares about this conversation. the president is also stirring controversy by changing the name of alaska's mt. mckinley, the tallest mountain in north america. sally jewel signed a secretarial order making it official. and they said today they are returning it to its native name,
denali, a step to reflect the heritage of alaska natives. where is the silent majority? is it the mckinleyites? or is it people looking for more of a return to native heritage? >> well, in alaska, the clear majority is on the denali side. alaska has wanted this change for about 40 years, and it's been blocked successfully by members of congress from ohio, which is the home state of president mckinley. almost nobody cares. elected officials from ohio get all indignant about it and how it's offensive to the memory of mckinley. the idea that anybody cares, to the extent that they would say
vote in an election on this issue, is about zero. but it does feed into a broader narrative by the republicans, that the president oversteps his authority. still, he has been slapped back a few times on that. but i think this is sort of a clever way for the president to draw out that reaction on an issue that seems so silly, that republicans look ridiculous for his executive overreach on a mountain that everybody wanted renamed anyway. >> mt. mckinley is not used typically as political football, but john does bring up interesting pieces of sub text. one is that the president is going around congress and the other issue that's interesting is we're going into an election season, and here's the president sort of taking a risk as far as his popularity in the state of ohio, which is not something you usually see, given ohio's electoral importance.
>> right, well, i'm from michigan originally, so anytime you can stick it to ohio, i'm for it. the bigger risk he's taking is with his climate initiatives where he is making aggressive, unilateral regulatory moves that are probably going to be the most important things he ends up doing as president if he can pull off this international agreement later in the year. and that's what he's trying to build support for. so if he actually does it, there the republicans will be right. they will be right legally, because i think he really does have the legal authority. but they will be right, that he did something huge and lasting which will leave an imprint not only on the united states but on the whole world. >> and that is sort of "the" thing to talk about, vis-a-vis alaska, he is the first american president to visit the alaskan arctic. and it is to bring attention to the changing climate up there
and encourage action on it one way or the other. at the same time, this administration has come under some criticism for issuing permits to arctic drilling. it is something that environmentalists have not been happy with, they have pointed it out. and i guess i wonder, is that all, are those criticisms sort of way laid by the broader inroads he's making? >> if you have an effective regime for limiting carbon emissions then you should be able to go issue as many drilling permits you want. the key issue is how much carbon gets released into the atmosphere. and if it is causing power utilities to move away from coal toward natural gas and renewables and other things that reduce the output, then there's no particular need to regulate the input. that's what the administration would say, we have an effective regime around the input. you have these villages along the coast that are very seriously impacted by climate
change. you also have a immense people who work no the industry. most of them don't live in the arctic, they live in the anchorage area. so i think the message to be sent in alaska is mixed. that we're going to have a national strategy on climate change, not particularly aimed at alaska by preventing the extraction of the oil industry there. >> always good to see you both. thanks for your time. coming up, the surprising issue that both democrat and republican candidates are talking about on the campaign trail. but to get from the old way to the new, you'll need the right it infrastructure. from a partner who knows how to make your enterprise more agile, borderless and secure.
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every year. and the latest statistics from the fbi show that more than 1.5 million arrests were made for drug abuse crimes making drug abuse the number one reason for an arrest in the united states. but the city of gloucester, massachusetts is trying to change all that with an innovative new program. today the white house announced that september will be national addiction recovery month. in a video that msnbc produced in partnership with upworthy.com, this is one town's story of how it's trying to fight the war on drugs. >> when you spend enough time with people who are addicted, especially in the capacity of law enforcement, at first, you know, you feel like you're doing a great job by cutting off the supply. after a while, you realize a complete helplessness of the person that's suffering from addiction and how arrest isn't the answer. we wanted to make a bold and
provocative statement and push that statement further up the ladder to the legislature and say as a police department, we're simply not going to arrest for the possession of this drug if the person presents to the police department and asks for help. no matter what happens with you, from today on, the gloucester police department is here. that means today is the first day of your recovery, ever. there is no way we're going to arrest our way out of the addiction crisis in this country. >> the hardest part about having a family member with a heroin addiction is watching, watching my son die right before my eyes. and i was watching him die. he denied that he was using any kind of drugs.
but there was a moment that he came and said i think i need help. >> the way i was living, i was trying to kill myself. and i told myself, if the gloucester police station didn't get me help that night, then i was just, i was going to take care of it. >> you sound mentally stronger than i've heard you sound in probably the last five-plus years. >> i mean, i owe you a lot. you've helped me when nobody else would. >> when i first walked through the door, i felt like i was going to jail. i was just really nervous. i had a lot of anxiety. i thought for sure i was going to get arrested for a crime i didn't even commit, but when i walked through the door, it was
the complete opposite. they asked if i was hungry. they asked if i was thirsty. i mean chief campanello, he came in at 9:00 that night from home. i mean, that was so empowering. i say it all the time. i got the strength to go to the police station from my mother but i got the hope to stay clean from the gloucester police station while i was there. >> this is not an unsolvable issue. if law enforcement is willing to change how we view this, then other entities had better step up to the plate. >> chief campanello joins me next. power torque ratios. three spreadsheets later you finally bring home the one. then smash it into a tree. your insurance company's all too happy to raise your rates. maybe you should've done a little more
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you know, if one of your kids gets caught with drugs, you get them a lawyer, and you're not going to let them spend time in prison, hopefully. but you know what happens if you're poor? particularly if you're poor and black? you get arrested at a higher incidence and spend more time in prison. >> i hear this all the time, the heroin challenge that exists. the first time i started hearing about it was here in new hampshire. it's all over the country now. look, i have some personal experience in this just as a dad, and it is the most heartbreaking thing in the world to go through. >> i have to confess i was surprised. and i did not expect that i would hear about drug abuse and substance abuse and other such challenges everywhere i went. >> 2016 presidential candidates are finally realizing what much of america already knows. that drug abuse is a problem that can affect any family anywhere, especially when it comes to heroin.
perhaps, because the problem is hitting those in the rust belt and in the northeast, including in the state of new hampshire, hitting those places the hardest. and perhaps that is why addiction is finally getting the attention it deserves. joining us is leonard campanello, the police chief of gloucester, massachusetts, a program that has resulted in help for 130 people so far, and the chief of the task force. let me start with you. why, you're from the northeast. why is heroin getting a foothold in these parts of the country? >> i think it's getting a foothold all over the country. i think the northeast has typically been in the forefront of discussing the problem openly. and i think that's why we're poised here in the northeast to make strides against it. >> frank, give us a sense of how this has happened.
i mean, if you look at the numbers on the ferocity and the depth of the heroin epidemic, two out of every 1,000 americans is addicted to heroin. that is a number that is staggering and completely underdiscussed. >> i'm a fourth generation english teacher, and words are very important to me. i don't like hyperbole, but this makes a lot of sense. so when we were holding our task force hearings, theres with a man from philadelphia who gave some testimony, and he said that in 2011 more people died from overdose deaths in america than from car crashes. so we're looking at 35,211 versus 35,000 in car crashes. maybe they get introduced to perk set or percodan through their dentist.
and then their prescription runs out or the money runs out. so they find something that's 20% the cost. and that's heroin. so people who never would do heroin now do it because they got introduced to it through prescription drugs, training wheels. >> incarceration, up until a certain point has been this sort of default position. what do you do with these people? you throw them in jail, and perhaps hope for the best. talk to us a little bit how your department has changed the thinking on that, on that mode of treatment or dealing with the issue by throwing people in jail. >> well, where has it gotten us historically? incarceration has gotten us nowhere on this war on drugs. i've done plain-clothes work for years. arresting everybody who crossed our path. and we saw the spin dry cycle, back on the street with no help and back in the system. the figures we get are telling
us that it's for every $1 we're spending in treatment we're spending $7 in incarcerating people. we decided to refuse to arrest someone who came to the station and looked for help for this addiction. and if we are changing the way we do things, we expect others to do the same. and that includes the health providers, health care plans and pharmaceuticals. >> so the other piece of this that is hard to fathom. to your point, is that the gateway for this, the gateway for heroin addiction seems to be prescribed painkillers, which are legal, right? >> yes, ma'am. >> i guess when i wonder about how we're talking about how to stanch the epidemic, is there a momentum afoot to stop the overprescription of pain killers? >> there is. 49 of 50 states in america, not missouri, has prescription drug monitoring programs.
which means if you're a doctor or nurse-practitioner and you prescribe, you have to enter it into a database system. and each time someone comes in, you have to see if they've gotten too many before, too many lately, how long it's been going on for. and we've seen some curbing of the prescribes practices. some states are doing better than others. i think we've made some head way. and we've seen a transition from larger use prescription drugs and now we're sighing heroin surging, partly because of the crackdown, but it's driven by economics. it's 20% of the cost. >> let's talk about the socioeconomic piece of this chief campanello. whether you've seen any change in the picture we have about opiate addiction. >> well, i think that's part of the problem is we're dealing with 2015 problems with a 1955 mind-set. we think that, you know, there's
still a stigma attached to addiction. that it's the crazy old guy under the bridge with the needle in his arm. it's not. this is a drug that crosses every socioeconomic boundary we know of. it has no regard for race or ethnicity. it crosses every boundary we know. and it's in everybody's home or in the home of somebody they know. and i think that's why it's getting the attention that it gets. and law enforcement can definitely be a voice to further the conversation about what we're doing as this reaches that epidemic level. >> frank, real quick. 8200 heroin-related overdose deaths every year. is that number going to go down next year? >> no, it's going to continue going up until we do more about this. i want to say i am so pleased and proud of what the chief is doing. we need that local law enforcement to act. we don't have enough time. but chive, you've already does a lot of good stuff with narcan. i hope people copy what you've