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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  September 9, 2015 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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but of consequence. i do believe that we are in a stronger position as a country, as a force for good. if we stand together and back this agreement. and back our president and that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. >> tonight on "all in." decision 2016 descends on grace in kentucky. >> if somebody needs to go, aisle going to go in her place. >> the latest on the spectacle to stop same-sex marriage in kentucky. then, colonel lawrence wilkerson on dick cheney's downward spiral. >> didn't you leave the administration, leave president obama with a mess? >> well, i don't think of it that way. >> plus, what role is the media playing in hillary clinton's slipping poll numbers. and he's an nfl hall of famer and an american icon. my interview with jim brown on
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the black lives matter movement with "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. the campaign media circus came to kentucky. >> please help me welcome to the stage, kim davis! ♪ ♪
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>> that's right. kim davis, the clerk who was jailed for refusing a court-ordered was freed after five days. emerging to speak to an adoring crowd to the strains of the 1982 survivor hit "eye of the tiger," which incidentally did not go over too well with frankie sullivan who slammed the use of his song. in a rally following her release led by mike huckabee, davis declined to personally discuss her plans, though, she did have a message to share. >> you are a strong people! we serve a living god who knows exactly where each and every one of us is at. just keep on pressing. don't let down. because he is here. >> when she first emerged from jail, davis was asked if the jail time was worth it.
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>> kim, was it worth it for you? was it worth it for you? yo rn? yes or no? thank you, guys. >> a guest on this program friday night said davis will return to work this week. he claimed, the licenses that have been issued while davis was in jail are not valid. would not say whether she will abide by a court order not to interfere with the continued issuances of those marriage licenses of same-sex couples. those began being issued on friday after five of the clerks who work under davis agreed to act despite their boss's defiance. in doing so, they granted marriage licenses to the couples who had sued davis and landed her in contempt. and once the couples had their marriage licenses in hand, a federal judge decided there was no longer grounds to keep davis in jail. >> she loves god, she loves people. she loves her work. and she will not betray any of those three. kim davis cannot and will not violate her conscience. >> davis supporters gathered
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outside the detention center with crosses and religious signs before her release cheering invocations of god, bowing their heads in prayer. there were also hate messages to be seen, including this side reading, quote, got aids yet." tony perkins who heads the anti-gay family research family. and the benton brothers whose reality show was canceled after it was revealed he was attacking it as destructive and demonic. as for huckabee, he railed against the supreme court's quote, judicial tyranny on same-sex marriage and repeatedly suggested he would go to jail in davis' place if she is ordered back, much like the way a tribute works in the "hunger games." of course, not how things actually work in the real world. >> let kim go. but if you have to put someone in jail, i volunteer to go. let me go. lock me up if you think that's how freedom is best served.
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because, folks, i am willing to spend the next eight years in the white house leading this country, but i want you to know, i'm willing to spend the next eight years in jail. but i'm not willing to spend one day under the tyranny of people who believe they can take our freedom and conscience away! >> may the odds ever be in your favor, governor. huckabee and staver seem to have coordinated today's events for maximum personal exposure. one of their planned big moments was not quite coordinated as well as they might have hoped. >> you will have a chance to see kim in a moment. we have an announcement, and it is this. kim davis is free! >> huckabee wasn't the only gop presidential candidate on the ground in kentucky today. ted cruz who is battling huckabee for the support of evangelicals also showed up, though, he got huck blocked failing to get on stage for the rally. generally missing out on the
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chance to use the situation to his political advantage. this picture from inside the detention center captures cruz' day pretty well. that's him in the back there poking his head out over kim davis' husband's shoulder. he did get a photo with davis that he tweeted out with the words "praise god, kim has been released." and he was stopped from speaking to reporters reportedly by a huckabee staffer, the guy in the red shirt after emerging from his visit with davis. cruz appeared to get increasingly frustrated as he tried to get past the staffer who used his body over and over again to block cruz's path to the press. and joining me now dave weigel, among the media strum in kentucky. that's him holding up his tape recorder. dave, it was a really wild scene from, at least from the cameras. what was it like in person? >> it was wild there, frankly. it started at 3:00 p.m., the rally was supposed to start at 3:00 p.m.
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people were lining up to get into this thing by 8:00 a.m. this town is not really equipped for an event of this size. the line of cars to get in lasted -- by the time it started, lasted more than an hour. i gave up and sat in my car working. and this was a major event that had been executed well and planned well, that was some of related to ted cruz that they'd been on the ground for days trying to make this into a major event. >> talk about that. you could tell this was not haphazard. there was a p.a. system, a stage, there were people on the ground. my understanding is huckabee had staffers who were there sort of coordinating all of this. and ted cruz came in today. who organized this and how? >> well, it was huckabee and a constellation of these groups, liberty council, the bevin brothers, the family research council, these groups that have been going on about this and getting shut out by the
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republican establishment. i think one of my big take aways from this whole day and this whole week. the republican establishment so inept at making donald trump disappear is surprised and inept at making social conservatives pipe down. this was not an issue they wanted to fight on. you saw in the wake of the supreme court decision this year, a lot of the republican spoke people strategists in washington saying, well, the battlefield's pretty much charred, we can walk away from it now. and cruz had been talking about this huckabee, i think, has doubled down is too small of a word. i need to think of a term for how much he invested and put on the table for this event. they're saying, no, social conservatives are not going to let the only social conservative party move on from this issue. >> yeah, and one interesting wrinkle. she's a democrat, an elected democrat in the sort of local part of kentucky. >> and democrats there that said they were with her switching parties.
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>> oh, really? that's interesting. >> tell me who the folks were at the rally. were these people who, to the extent, were they from around there? people sort of bussed in? who were these folks? >> it was a mix. but there were a lot of kentuckyans. he was at the rally, he was working the crowds. a lot of them driven from out of state. from florida to texas in new york, they would announce that with a sign. churches who had chartered bus and the normal bus they used for mission trips to bring down as many -- you don't see groups like the pro-life march for life. announcing what church they were from. and they were having a great time. and a lot hoped she was released today. but the fact she was made this
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into a major triumphant event for them. >> did you get a sense of the game plan going forward? obviously she's in a situation in which the original lawsuit filed by the plaintiffs is no longer applicable. her attorney says those marriage licenses are invalid. some kind of combination that the name would be taken off. presumably someone's going to show up there tomorrow, and we don't know what's going to happen. >> yeah, matt staver was squirrely about that. if they don't force them to issue these licenses, but people are willing to go to a different county and get married. fine, we've lost that battle. there were people, this element that i think has been silenced in the rest of the republican party who were talking about how the supreme court is bringing the nation down. older people, i should say. i talked to a lot of people in their 60s and 70s who literally thought that the supreme court's
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decision was one of the things that was going to bring about a biblical event. god's judgment on america. one couple i was talking to who thought a famine could arise because god was so angry from this decision. and they're not going to accommodate. i think more likely is going to come from a lot of the younger people i saw. who thought it was abhorrent that kim davis would be forced to do this, but hoped maybe the gay people that want to get married take it easy. you saw in realtime, gay couples that showed up to talk to the crowd. and there was a discrepancy happening in realtime where some people were yelling at them and some people would pray for them and shake hands. to the anger of the people yelling at them and calling them sodimites. >> fascinating. phenomenal reporting. i learned a lot there. >> thank you. >> joining us now, author several books ago "kingdom coming" also author of a fantastic new book out right now about yoga and the woman that
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brought it to america. so you spent a lot of time reporting on the christian right. and the reason i wanted to talk to you today was, watching this event, there was a period around 2004 when all american political coverage, cover of "time" magazine, "news week," that all of the political coverage about evangelicals and their political power. and it's like you would think that they've melted like the glaciers. but, of course, those people are still there. and they still have the belief they have. >> well, most of them, but they don't have the political power they have. they don't have anywhere near the political power they have. you know, 2004, it wasn't just, you know, kind of one random marginal candidate. it was george w. bush going to those rallies, right? i was in ohio then going to the mega churches that were, you know, absolutely central to getting out the vote in the 2004 campaign, especially in ohio. and, you know, that's all they were talking about. now you get --
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>> all they're talking about, meaning gay marriage particularly. >> right. gay marriage, and not just kind of religious freedom, banning gay marriage, which at this point is completely off the table. you know, mike huckabee is clearly, he sees this as his only plausible path to victory because there is this neglected constituency out there. aside from him and ted cruz, everybody else is sort of embarrassed by them. i also have a theory that the energy and kind of among american reactionaries seesaws, and i think that right now, we're in kind of a moment of racial animus and that's why it's with donald trump and not with mike huckabee. >> one of the things i thought was important about watching this event is that there's the question of people's political influence, but there are millions, tens of millions of evangelical christians in this country who did not suddenly decide it was okay. that gay people can get married under the eyes of the law as mandated by the u.s. constitution because the supreme court said it. and there is somewhat an unmet political market.
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>> right. >> i think you saw today. >> well, i think the question is, evangelical conservatives, going back to the scopes of the trial, go through the periods of intense engagement and then withdrawal. >> yeah. >> and after the re-election of obama, and the supreme court decision, a period of withdrawal. and even their language around religious freedom. it's not we want to ban gay marriage, we want to protect our little enclaves, our right, you know, not to have to bake gay wedding cakes or kind of participate in this sinful majority culture. >> right. >> so in a sense, they've already, most of them, had kind of accepted their defeat. you hear a lot less of this sort of christian nation rhetoric than you did ten years ago when i was reporting my book. you know, although maybe she's given them a spark of hope that they could rise up again. >> well, that was part of what i saw today, and i've covered a lot of political events. >> right. >> and i've covered political
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events that are liberal political events, conservative, real lefty, real right wing reactionry. and political movements need victories to keep going. and this is a political movement that's had just one loss after another after another. you can feel the catharsis, like, we got a win today, how long has it been since we got a win? >> this is a pretty tenuous -- >> extreme. >> this woman is no longer in jail. her, you know, this is not going to be enacted into policy, as you said, tomorrow, gay couples will still be married in her county. >> we think. we don't know what she's going to do. >> certainly a victory for her. she has a big future ahead of her in evangelical politics. >> sure. >> she's out of jail, but they've lost. >> and that was the other thing sort of oddly hung over this entire thing. i think ted cruz and mike huckabee recognize, though, in a crowded primary field, being the candidate who is the tribune of that sentiment is a powerful thing. >> and the same way that donald trump, there was an underserved market for the economic populist
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social conservatism. still to come, the iran deal has the supported needs in the senate and then some. but now dick cheney has spoken. lawrence wilkerson is here to react next. and as the horrors unfold in europe, we ask candidates how many refugees they should take in. and jim brown will be right here at this table. don't go away.
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in las vegas today, british airways bound for london caught on fire after making an emergency landing after takeoff. video showing the boeing 777 engulfed in flames on the runway at the international airport. 159 passengers and 13 crew were onboard. they all managed to get off safely through emergency slides. two people suffered minor injuries. a fire was quickly put out, the runway, however, still shut at
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this hour. there's a ground stop for arriving air traffic. british airways says the left engine caught fire during takeoff. no word yet on why or how that happened. we'll keep you posted.
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the senate back from its august recess started debate on a resolution to disapprove the nuclear deal with iran. but with three more senate democrats, ron wyden of oregon and richard blumenthal in connecticut. and with senator maria cantwell announcing her support tonight, well, the deal now has 42 votes in the senate.
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and that, that is enough to block the resolution altogether with the filibuster and keep it from getting to president obama's desk for his veto. it's a momentous victory for the white house. and a crushing defeat for the forces aligned against the deal. from lobbying groups like apac to think tanks to republican presidential candidates. some of them aren't ready to move on without trying to extract some kind of political benefit from the debacle. according to "politico," republicans are discussing the possibility of voting on friday, september 11th, to put maximum political pressure on democrats. taking a cue from alanis morrissette tweeted, ironic that congress may vote on the iran nuke deal on 9/11. donald trump and ted cruz are expected to hold their stop the iran deal on capitol hill. but today belonged to dick cheney who argued against the deal in the speech at the american enterprise institute. >> with the removal of restrictions on the iran missile
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program, this will give iran means to launch a nuclear attack on the u.s. homeland. what president obama is asking the united states congress to do is unique. historically and dangerously unique. the results could well be catastrophic. >> cheney's speech came after a remarkable interview over the weekend about his own administration helped strengthen the iranian regime. >> during your time. let's put these numbers up on the screen. iran went from zero known centrifuges in operation to more than 5,000. so in fairness, didn't you leave the bush/cheney administration leave president obama with a mess? >> well, i don't think think of it that way. in fact, there was military action that had an impact on the iranians when we took down saddam hussein. that happened on -- >> no, in 2009, there were 5,000. >> joining me now, colonel lawrence wilkerson, former chief
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of staff to colin powell who made big news this weekend with his endorsement of the nuclear deal. colonel, your response to cheney's warnings about this deal today. >> well, the exchange you just characterized in that clip sort of personifies what my appreciation of dick cheney is. i've been searching for a single word that would describe dick cheney. and i'm afraid the only one i can think of is insanity. it's a deliberate. it's a methodical, it's a lucid, often lucid insanity. but it's insanity nonetheless. he can't recognize reality, he can't recognize the truth. the good thing is that independence, republicans and democrats wish he would just go away now. he has almost no influence. you saw the influence he has virtually by numbers. those at the aei today listening to his speech. that's about it. >> what do you make of this
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idea? cheney and his daughter, they want to talk about iran and what it sort of terrifying regime it is and how it's growing larger. and yet fail to acknowledge the fact that one of the largest geopolitical boons to iran, unquestionably was the war in iraq. they have essentially a proxy government sitting in baghdad. we have, you know, members of, the quds force and all sorts of iranian power being projected into iraq, all of which is a result of the iraq war. >> you could go on in that regard, chris. i can't understand why this man who is portrayed, for example, in the monumental biography of brent scrocoff. at least 30 years of his career, and i saw him as secretary of defense a rather brilliant strategist, brilliant man. all of a sudden he's turned into this person who simply cannot recognize reality.
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i can't explain it. maybe it's physiological, maybe it's biological. maybe 9/11 did something to him. after all, he was in charge when 9/11 happened. the greatest attack on the american territory since pearl harbor. that might have shocked him somewhat. i can't explain it, chris, he is simply devoid of reason, and the doesn't recognize reality anymore. >> you mentioned 9/11. and i was so struck today reading that account today that the republicans made to put maximal political pressure. quite clearly, bin laden hated the iranian regime. the iranian regime hated him back, hated the taliban. they have nothing to do with each other except, i guess, you know, their faith, the part of the world. what do you make of this idea that on 9/11 vote somehow will put political pressure on democrats. >> cheney and rove master, they mastered the process of associating things that really
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get a number of the american people, if not a small majority excited. and fearful. yesterday, chris, my seminar explored harry truman in the korean war and senator mccarthy came up. and i couldn't help but think there's a portion of dick cheney today that reminds me of joseph mccarthy. the kind of baiting, the kind of fearful rhetoric and so forth. this is the sort of thing that paranoids do. and i think mccarthy was a paranoid. there are people you can excite with this kind of logic. all you have to do is associate the fearful object with something else. it's totally illogical, but it works. >> you know, thatst a great point about the cold war. because in many respects, one of the great strategic blunders continually made during the cold war was projecting on to communism this monolithic nature.
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they're all communists, working for each other, the chinese, vietnamese, russians, in moscow, that proved not to be the case in any way. and it strikes me to have the iran vote on 9/11 shows some sort of similar thinking about the, quote, threat. >> i think so. i think that's the way you get some of the american people exercised about a threat that's really different from the way you're describing it, or in some cases is not even existent. and then you get a lot of money allocated to the military industrial complex and all this rest of the thing. cheney's a millionaire now. maybe i'm assuming his insanity, and maybe i'm wrong. maybe he sees this as a way, a route to success, and it turned out to be profitable. his personal finances now are quite well established. he's a multimillionaire. this is a man who in 1998, chris, said most forcefully as ceo of halliburton that sanctions were not working. >> right.
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they weren't working unless they were comprehensive or international. and he wanted to do deals with iran. and so he was bashing sanctions up one wall and down the other. this is a man who lost his mind in some respects in my view. >> thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. coming up, hillary clinton apologizes for her private e-mail use. but why, and more importantly, to who? that's ahead. to wad to get cle. cause we use charmin ultra soft. charmin ultra soft gets you clean without the wasteful wadding. it has comfort cushions you can see that are softer and more absorbent, and you can use up to 4 times less. enjoy the go with charmin.
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pressure continues to build across europe and across the
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world to grapple with the growing refugee crisis. today, hundreds of people at a refugee camp on the hungary/serbia border broke free after waiting overnight in the cold for transport that never came. it is these traumatic scenes of desperation unfolding across the continent that are putting increasing pressure on european governments to take in more people fleeing violence in the middle east. yesterday, david cameron pledged britain will take up to 20,000 refugees from syria by 2020. compared to germany who took in some 18,000 people this past weekend alone according to the bbc. meanwhile, the white house reiterated today it is actively looking at ways to deal with the refugee crisis while refusing to give specifics. democrat and republican are for the most part following suit. marco rubio, chris christie, hints have all over the past few days said the u.s. should do
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more to help without getting into specifics. ben carson today took a similar stance when asked as ted cruz who said the u.s. should not take refugees, but, quote, address the cause of this crisis. and scott caulker, and perhaps the most cowardly response yet refused to answer the question at all. >> what would you do to address the migrants who are currently fleeing into europe? should the u.s. accept some of those migrants into the country? >> well, again, i think the problem is we're ignoring the basis of the core of the problem. the problem is this president is at a weak assistance in terms of taking on isis. >> to follow up, if you were president today, what would -- >> i'm not president today and i can't be president today. i'm going to be president in january of 2017, and i'm telling you what people need to do. everybody wants to talk about hypotheticals. there is no such thing. >> the fact these refugees need a place to go is not a hypothetical. and pope francis said countries need to help them. should the u.s. play an active role? >> i'm going to take on isis as president.
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>> hypotheticals do not exist. good thing to note. the question of the u.s. response, the refugees crisis is an unusual one. there's a certain number of refugees the u.s. will take into this country. the u.s. expects to admit only between 1,500 and 1,800 syrian refugees total by the end of the year, total. that's according to the state department. we've reached out to almost two dozen presidential campaigns who asked what they think that number should be. so far, a grand total of one candidate has gone on the record with a specific number. martin o'malley said last week the u.s. should let in 65,000 syrian refugees by the end of next year. we will continue asking the other candidates what their number is. because as we watch human suffering on an almost unimaginable scale unfold across the middle east and europe, hemming and hawing is not enough.
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if there's a bias in the political media, whether
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mainstream, or not, it's for a good story. for uncertain outcomes and close, contested races. cake walks and coronations interest no one. and so our institutional bias in the media is for hillary clinton to have a contested primary. now, it's true of jeb bush, too, who has run up against a similar, but less consequential bias in this respect. he obviously has a whole other set of problems with donald trump. so, that is a lens through which all of the actual hillary clinton news is being refracted. that news has not been awesome. the clinton campaign has very real actual challenges. challenges in answering questions about the secretary of state's decision to use a private e-mail server rather than a public government one. challenges encountering bernie sanders who continues to perform very well in early state polls, and dealing with the potential entry of joe biden into the race. now, the big story over the weekend, in large part by her aides is that the campaign is rebooting. "new york times" headline, hillary clinton to show more humor and heart aides say. and along with that an e-mail apology, in many ways driven by
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and addressed to the media. >> in retrospect, certainly, as i look back at it now, even though it was allowed, i should have used two accounts. one for personal, one for work-related e-mails. that was a mistake. i'm sorry about that. i take responsibility. and i'm trying to be as transparent as i possibly can. >> and then, there is vice president joe biden who had a labor day parade in pittsburgh was peppered with cries of run, joe, run. >> run, joe, run! >> whoo! >> run, joe biden, run! >> what's your name? >> joining me now, writer at large for "esquire," charlie pierce. charlie, i don't get. well, i guess i understand this sort of apology focus in the coverage of this. today, she apologized.
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was it a sufficient apology? but it doesn't strike me as necessarily that important. and yet, it seems to be a real focal point for a lot of the coverage of this. >> yeah, i mean, did she owe you an apology, chris? she didn't owe me an apology. she didn't do anything to me. seriously, who is she apologizing to? is she apologizing to the, you know, the 20 or 50 or 100 people on her campaign plane with her? i don't understand, who is she apologizing to? the american people. the american people don't care about this. i spent the whole day, the last couple of days having very serious dan burton flashbacks to the whitewater investigation. we're all living in the cocktail lounge of the airport right now. >> explain that references. >> it was one of the wilder bill clinton conspiracy theorys was he was running, you know, cocaine like water through a mill race at a little airport in arkansas. and that's become at least my shorthand for all the weird
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stuff that gets thrown at the clintons because they're the clintons. >> but, so there's also there shall it's the e-mail thing, right? there's also this sort of reboot. and i was a little bit, like, i don't quite get this. is this, you know, aides, it was just so sort of easily mockable, you know? she will show more spontaneity. and i guess any article about a campaign reboot is and maybe nobody cares a the this point anyway. but i didn't understand the strategy of telling the "times" this. >> yeah, there's a real -- there's a fine line in every campaign. one is a lot of people outside of your campaign are telling you you're doing very badly. the real problem was when the people inside your campaign start to believe them. now, it's still september, i got the month right this time, by the way, which i didn't last time i was on. >> fact checks are a pride here on "all in with chris hayes." >> it's still september before the iowa caucuses. things are still very fluid.
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i don't -- i think if the clinton people within the campaign are taking seriously all the noise from outside of the campaign she's in desperate trouble, then they have a really big problem and it has nothing to do we mail. >> see, this is an excellent point. and one of the most fascinating point. you feel these sort of pressures build and this storm will build. you have to do x, you have to do y. and one of the things i think distinguish the obama campaign as a campaign, independent in some respects from the candidate himself and his qualifications and vision. was their sort of institutional resistance to being bullied by these sort of calls that come from outside about what you have to do. and that ended up sort of working very well for them. and there was a lot of talk about this time around the clinton campaign being similarly focused. >> that's the classic, don't worry, i've got this, internet meme, which has been the
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president's, you know, the hallmark of the president's -- of this president's leadership in the white house. the clinton people can talk that talk. but you're also dealing, at least, with a candidate who is, you know, i'm going to borrow something from lyndon johnson here. you're out in the middle of a texas road, and it's raining, and you can't run, you can't hide, and you can't make it stop. that's been the clinton's life ever since about 1988. >> right. >> now if the candidate's a little bit gun shy about this at this point, i can understand that. >> you know, and i also had this thought as i was watching the joe biden footage. i think it would be better for everyone, the democratic party and hillary clinton if joe biden got in. i think in some ways the kind of, the polling of him as a theoretical candidate as opposed to an actual candidate. if he's in, you sort of know what the field looks like, know what the parameters are. you have the race. and i think in some ways, the
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ambiguity around him sort of haunting this race in this sort of odd way is actually part of what is making them a little spooked. >> at the very least, it will reduce the fantasmic notion of joe biden, progressive hero. he's a pretty middle of the road politician. he always has been. i mean, elizabeth warren went to war with him before she was in the senate over the bankruptcy bill. >> that's right. >> and she's taking a meeting. i mean, i think joe biden as a real, you know, life size living candidate would do the field a better service than having them, as you say, as this shadow candidate. the problem is, it's another whack at bernie sanders who is drawing great crowds and gets no attention. >> although, his polling numbers reflect he's doing very well. charlie, thank you for joining us. >> thanks, chris.
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still to come, jim brown will join me to talk about his public safety summit and the black lives matter movement.
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often thee protesters will be holding signs you may not like. but tip here, never try to grab the sign from the protester. it's a bad idea because win or lose, you end up looking terrible. take what happened last week when one of donald trump's security guys took on a protester outside his press conference. it's a big guy, got the sign easily and then things degenerated badly from there as he pops the protester in the face. then there's what happened today when a guy took it upon himself to try to take a banner from a code pink protester. the protester half his size, we might add, but an unbreakable death grip on that sign that proved to be too much to handle. as a man who flopped down to think about what went wrong, the protester leaves the room flag in hand.
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and now, you're famous on the internet. never, ever grab the sign. ooñóokñ.??????ó
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you often heard mantra that black lives matter. some say, falls flat when you consider how many blacks are killing other blacks. that remains the majority of homicides across the country. >> black on black crime is statistically a reality. >> the majority of deaths of young, black males are coming from other young black males. if we don't address that, we're not serving these kids in these neighborhoods well, are we? >> i haven't seen the rallies like this over the black on black crime, which is 91% in new york city and nationally. >> it's not all about police officers. there's something else that's gone on that needs to be addressed. and that is that a lot of this is black on black crime. >> perhaps you noticed, there's this somewhat cynical thing that happens around the phrase black lives matter. we keep hearing conservatives,
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in particular, pivot from that to what about black on black crime. murder, as a just general phenomenon is an intraracial crime. according to the u.s. justice department between 1980 and 2008, 93% black murder victims were killed by black people, and 87% of white murder victims were killed by white people. the other thing those commentators fail to mention is that crime, murder, and violence is simply not getting ignored. instead, people who live in communities, black communities with high crime spend an extraordinary amount of time dealing with fighting against attempting to solve gun violence and violence more broadly. tomorrow, just to give an example, newark, new jersey, city whose population is more than 50% black, a city that has struggled with high crime will hold a summit on violence intervention. and it's hosted by the mayor, an nfl hall of famer and social activist jim brown. and i'm going to talk to both
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men about that next. why are you deleting these
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photos? because my teeth are yellow. why don't you use a whitening toothpaste? i'm afraid it's bad for my teeth. try crest 3d white. crest 3d white diamond strong toothpaste and rinse... ...gently whiten... ...and fortify weak spots. use together for 2 times stronger enamel. crest 3d white. joining me now as promised, newark, new jersey mayor and jim brown. wonderful to have you gentlemen here. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you. >> when you watch this discussion about violence, police violence, gun violence and you hear this phrase about black on black crime and no one's raising this issue, what's you response to that? >> well, you see, i'm not a philosopher. and i'm here not to do a lot of talking.
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i've worked on this issue for many, many years. there are certain people that live in certain conditions. and if you don't change those conditions, the people not going to change. and what i'm trying to do because the mayor here is really giving us a great opportunity to maybe help his initiative, i'm trying to be a force of security to these young people, hope education. getting off your butts, and i'd have nothing to do with crime. crime is something i'm against 100%. i'm against murder, and i'm against excuses for it. >> you had this summit back in 1967, right? >> yes. this is something you've been working on for a long time? >> we've been very successful. 15 years success in los angeles with the kripps and bloods.
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if the society joins in like this man is joining in, we can do something about it. but if the jobs are not there and you don't emphasize the education. and if the fathers are not there. and those of us like myself and the mayor doing substitute what are the kids supposed to do? >> what's the idea behind it? >> well, kind of focus on the unresolved trauma that's happened in our community. a cycle of violence initiated by poverty and five decades or more of unemployment and all kinds of issues that create these problems we have in our community. it's our way of bringing our community together outside of using the police and other agencies. >> what does that mean, though?
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>> well, the community starts first, at the first line of defense. the neighborhood, community, families. restructuring our families, getting people together, strengthening them. providing jobs and opportunities and hope for young people. giving them a pathway out of crime. a pathway out of violence. >> a big part of what happens in, i would imagine a place like newark, certainly happened in chicago when i was a reporter there. someone in my neighborhood does something to me or someone i love, right? bad. violence, insults, something like that. i'm not going to go to the cops. right? i don't trust the cops will be fair to me. i don't trust the justice will be done. the way i'm going to settle the score, i'm going to do something to him or people he loved, right? that's part of the cycle. but how do you break that? >> well, i think, a lot of it had to do with what i talked about, unresolved trauma. giving people an opportunity to have outlets, to talk about these kinds of issues that confront them in their community. give them opportunities that provide them hope, give them
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employment, jobs, you know, destruction of poverty. i think is the bottom line. so we have what's going on, i can't say post traumatic stress because it's not over. it's happening over and over again. you've got kids growing up in situations where there's violence all around them. they're witnessing murders, friends are being murdered or hurt or maimed by this kind of violence. and so, it becomes our most systemic. and we have to treat it as a disease and begin to eradicate it just like we eradicated other public crises. >> i've been reading a bit for a project i'm working on, things around some of the riots and struggles around police. and someone active at that time and watching what's happening now with a sort of new civil rights, how much do you think has changed since 1966? >> that's an unbelievable question. you know we have a tremendous problem today. everything is escalated. but if you look at the economy
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and our future, the economy is not in this country. it's somewhere overseas. and if you look at the top, they're doing real well. the black top is doing real well, right? great athletes, great entertainers, they're making millions of dollars. can you get them to come out here and sit down with this man and help him heal the city? well, my job is to say to ray lewis, come on, man, trying to do a job. let us get with and let the kids see us and be those surrogate fathers and put an interest in these kids. and get them educated. the jobs are so important and self-esteem is a major problem with people. and you're not going to solve it unless you understand the root cause of it. >> it's amazing how much, you know, not feeling like you're no
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one makes you want to do something to make yourself feel like someone. >> plus, you're talking about five decades or more about double-digit unemployment and poverty. >> that's not going to be solved overnight. thank you. >> "rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> good evening, chris, thank you. >> you bet. >> and thanks for joining us for a big part of the day today. the biggest story in the country, the center of the news universe was grayson, kentucky, outside of carter county detention center where lots and lots of people supporting the kentucky clerk who had been jailed to issue marriage licenses. her supporters were holding a big rally. all over the news today, cameras everywhere. and this very interesting thing happened in the middle of that. in the course of covering that rally, that support the anti-gay marriage kentucky clerk in contempt of court and therefore

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