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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  September 9, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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at least on the republican side. unless donald trump really is going to be the republican nominee for president, one of these guys is going to have these guys is going to have to pop out of the gutter to win someday and maybe someday soon. second republican presidential tonight. that does it for us tonight. time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell."
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>> he is fulfilling islamic jihad. >> americans will die, israelis will die, europeans will die. >> i have been doing deals for a long time, wonderful deals, great deals. >> the time has come to talk about the big orange elephant in the room. ♪ it's the end of the world as we know it." >> we will have so much winning. you may get bored winning. >> we're living in an obama world, full of sprinkling fairy dust blown from atop his unicorn. >> rip to shreds this catastrophic deal.
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>> that's not leadership. that's recklessness. >> donald trump and ted cruz, dick cheney want to be the face of the opposition, that's their choice. >> it is a done deal. it looks like. secretary of state john kerry the former chairman of the foreign relations committee know that votes matter more than speeches in the senate. he has the votes to allow the obama administration's nuclear deal with iran to go through. >> 42 senators have made up their minds. that's the count that matters right now. if donald trump and ted cruz and dick cheney want to be the face of the opposition that's their choice. >> two hours after that, donald trump and ted cruz made that choice at a rally outside of the capitol building. as usual, donald trump said nothing particularly relevant or coherent, but he did talk a lot. >> never, ever, ever in my life
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have i seen any transaction so incompetently negotiated as our deal with iran. we are led by very, very stupid people. we lose everywhere. we lose militarily. we can't beat isis. give me a break. we can't beat anybody. our vets are being treated horribly. it will change. we will have so much winning, if i get elected, that you may get bored with winning. >> presidential candidates usually like to say what they would do when they become president, no matter how low they are scoring in the polls that day. but senator ted cruz, perhaps in a nod to his place in the polls instead gave a recommendation to whoever does become the next president. >> this iranian nuclear deal is catastrophic.
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it is the single greatest threat to america. the obama administration will be quite literally the world's leading financier of radical islamic terrorism. any commander in chief worthy of defending this nation should be prepared to stand up on january 20th, 2017, and rip to shreds this catastrophic deal. >> diplomacy is not the pursuit of perfection. it's the balancing of risk. and on balance, the far riskier course, right now, would be to walk away. several republican candidates boast they'll tear up this agreement in 2017, more than a year after it has been
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implemented. that's not leadership. that's recklessness. >> an op-ed in the "huffington post" today, bernie sanders said, i fear that many of my republican colleagues do not understand that war must be a last resort, not the first resort. it is easy to go to war. it is not so easy to comprehend the unintended consequences of that war. does the agreement achieve everything i would like? no, it does not. but to my mind it is far better than the path we are on. >> hillary clinton said this about how she would oversee the iran deal as president. >> my starting point will be one of distrust. you remember president reagan's line about the soviets -- trust by verify. my approach will be distrust and verify. we should anticipate that iran will test the next president. they'll want to see how far they can bend the rules.
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that won't work if i'm in the white house. >> form er secretary of state clinton had a sharp message for iran's leaders. >> here's my message to iran's leaders -- the united states will never allow you to acquire a nuclear weapon. as president, i will take whatever actions are necessary to protect the united states and our allies. i will not hesitate to take military action, if iran attempts to obtain a nuclear weapon. >> joining us now josh barro from the "new york times" and msnbc contributor. steve clemons "the atlantic magazine" ands ins msnbc contributor and michael steele former rnc chairman and msnbc political analyst. michael, it is a done deal. i think even donald trump acknowledged that even though he was participated in the rally. do you see this from here -- let's say we are past the vote on this and we're a month down
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the road in the presidential campaign. how long does this issue carry weight in the campaign as an active day-to-day issue between republicans and democrats? >> i think for a lot of the hawks in the party it carries a lot of weight and one of the rallying cries. really one of the litmus tests for some of the candidates to apply to other candidates, sort of distinguish themselves over the next few months. as this race among republicans heats up and i suspect beginning a week from tonight it will get hot for a lot of these candidates. this issue, as you saw play out today on a national stage, will resonate with a lot of the base, number one and will be a driver, as you heard dick cheney say. he wants to make sure foreign policy is one of the top talked about subjects for our presidential candidates over the next year. >> josh barro, it seems to be,
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we have two presidential candidates up there today. for ted cruz, the contest seems to be who can find a new way to accuse the president of treason. >> i thought it was more that we had two presidential candidates saying different things about the deal even though they were at the same rally and same people cheering them on. >> correct me on this. did donald trump say something substantive that i missed among all the other? >> i want to report if he said something. >> i don't know if it was the speech or immediately afterward, he said many times he would not rip up the deal. >> he didn't say it on the stage but yes, you are right. he does say that. he wouldn't have made the deal. once the deal is done. >> right. >> a wonderful deal. >> this is the big difference. a lot of republicans say it is a bad deal because iran is evil an you can't deal with evil and no way you could have made a deal that was good.
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another critique is the trump critique and others say you could have a deal with iran but this is the wrong deal and if tougher and not weak like president obama you would strike a better deal. it is wrong but a more realistic decision. you have to negotiate with people you don't like. but they are saying they would have done it differently. most of the discussion about the issue in the republican field and the reason it is not going to become a litmus test it is about the scent that president obama is weak. you can make the case by saying rip up the deal or don't rip up the deal because president obama put us in the position where we have to deal with the deal. i don't think there will be a substantive policy over whether you should throw out the iran deal that will drive who wins the republican nomination. >> let's concentrate on someone who has a chance of being president. hillary clinton today trying to support the deal. this is the deal to make. and trying to sound as tough as
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she could on the iranian regime in every way she could in the rest -- >> this is the way hillary clinton has been in the entire time i have watched her in the united states senate and the department when she was secretary of state. she is a smart, experienced person. great she supported the deal but the clutch her foreign policy position is highly muscular. highly prone to let's attack, let's be prepared in the scenario she laid out about what iran would do, iran would cheat, wait us out or fool us at the end and it was designed -- it was a neo conservative drafted half of a speech. it was remarkable in in the way she didn't present a pathway to consolidate the achievement of president obama and what might be a different scenario in the middle east where the united states is not dragged down an bogged down forever in this morass where its own stakeholders aren't taking care
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of it. obama talked about the future of the united states in asia. our issue is to tend to issues but not double down. this is hillary clinton saying we need to double down in the middle east and buff up our force and it is all about israel. it is not sunni, shia divide and the proxy wars around the world and using presidential power, but to broker a deal. there was none of that. it is deep in her dna to be ready to punch. not really strategic. >> listen to more of what she had to say in the area that you are talking about how she sees the affects of what iran could be engaged in the region. >> even without nuclear weapons, we still see iran's fingerprints on nearly every conflict across the middle east. they support bad actors from syria to lebanon to yemen.
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they vow to destroy israel. that's worth saying again. they vow to destroy israel. we cannot ever take that lightly. >> michael steele, it sounds like on a general election debate stage hillary clinton is going to be tough to sound tougher than on iran. >> well, yeah. she's got a little neo in her and she worked it in the speech today. it will be an interesting conversation to have her have with the republican nominee, particularly if it is someone who has a strong, or even strident position on the middle east with respect to israel and iran. to hear her try to navigate that conversation while her base, on the other hand is sitting there looking at her cock-eyed going, wait a minute. this is the concern we had about you. that you are ready to shoot
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first and then maybe negotiate. a lot of that came across in that speech today. it's going to be funny to watch her sort of dial it back against bernie sanders and martin o'malley and others begin to point out there is a neo con in our midst. >> a bit of a religious war in the republican campaign. just tonight. let's listen to what ben carson said about donald trump's religiosity. >> one of my favorite bible versus, proverbs 22:4, it says "by humility and the fear of the lord our riches and honor and life." that's a very big part of who i am. humility and the fear of the lord. i don't get that impression with him. maybe i'm wrong but i don't get that impression. >> all right. here's donald trump's response,
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which is, of course, a tweet. he tweeted, wow, i'm ahead of the field of evangelicals and so proud of this and virtually every group and ben carson just took a swipe at me. michael steele, referee this one. >> oh, heck no. where is this going in your heart? >> oh, nowhere good. i don't think that is a posture that ben carson wants to take. it's not very humbling or very christian to start questioning someone's faith or their tradition in that manner. there's no need to talk about that. as donald trump -- as donald trump points out, he needs to gain some grounds with evangelicals and this is one way he thinks he can do it. >> ben carson going to keep this up? >> i think ben carson is number two in the national polls and polling close to even with donald trump in iowa and it is weird donald trump is doing so
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by going around saying the bible is my favorite book but i'm not going to say what verse verses i like. it is too personal. >> thank you for joining us tonight. up next, will the united states accept more refugees from syria? and mr. holt interviewed two survivors of the massacre in the mother emanuel church. one mother told him about the experience of watching her son take his last breath in that church. later, another episode of "her story." the first woman to receive the congressional medal of honor and how that didn't save her from being arrested many times after that for wearing pants. bring us your aching... and sleep deprived. bring us those who want to feel well rested
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we are committed to
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increasing the number of refugees that we take and we are looking hard at the number we can specifically manage with respect to the crisis in syria and europe. the former foreign secretary of the united kingdom is joining us next with the latest on the crisis. hello, reykjavik. oh, so that's how you spell it. what are you looking at? oh, cool. hungry. fish, anyone? hello, seventh waterfall of the day. hello, duck boat. hello, sheep? oh right! itchy icelandic sweaters and no foreign transaction fees. sweet. one last look. ahh. triple points. and we're off. what's next? wherever the journey takes you, carry american express gold. it's more than a card. it's the gear that gets it done.
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today the president of the european commission proposed a new plan to allow an additional 160,000 refugees from syria, afghanistan and other countries. the plan would distribute the refugees among european union member nations with binding quotas. the united states has accepted 1500 syrian refugees in the last four years with almost all of them coming just this year. here's what the presidential candidates have to say about accepting more syrian refugees in the united states. >> i think the entire world has to come together. it should not be just one or two countries or not just europe and the united states. we should do our part, as should the europeans, but i this is a broader, global crisis.
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>> i would be open. america has always been open to allowing a certain number of refuges around the world to come to the united states. >> i do think we have a responsibility in terms of taking more folks in, making sure they assimilate and at the same time helping people to be safe as they move. that's logistical support. but this is an issue that europe has to come to grips with. >> do you object to them coming to the usa? >> i hate the concept of it but on a humanitarian basis with what is happening you have to. >> republican presidential candidate scott walker tweeted we shouldn't be taking in anymore syrian refugees right now. the real problem is the obama administration's failure to deal with isis. democratic presidential candidate bernie sanders said -- obviously the u.s. has to work with europe and i think what they want to establish, which is right, is not all refugees end up in germany or in the u.k. that's what they are working with on and i think the united states has to be supportive and work with them. joining us now is david
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miliband. the president and ceo of the international rescue committee. former secretary of state foreign affairs united kingdom. what is the latest status and what do you see happening in the next couple of weeks? >> there are now upwards of 600,000, 800,000 refugees expected in to europe this year. most of them in to germany. the real eye of the storm is in germany. you have got 25,000 people stuck on an island, 3,000 a day coming on, less than that going off and appalling conditions for people who have been on a trek, many of them losing loved ones along the way. the feebleness of the european response has been exposed in
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graphic form over the last couple of weeks. obviously this has been a problem far longer in the making. 4 million refugees. and from our point of view as a humanitarian agency, number one in europe there needs to be a far better effort at processing and relocating refugees, resettling them in a safe way. obviously the flow has to be tackled with a serious attempt to improve conditions in the neighboring states of syria and after four years of latitude and inertia, diplomatic muscle try to bring the conflict to a close. >> steve, you hear mr. miliband refer to the response as feeble the united states 1500 people. >> that it took 18 months to vet. 1500 people waited 18 months to get here on average. when they talk about ramping up, it is not only the numbers but -- you talk about the free syrian army and trying to set up moderate rebels, these are
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people trying to save their lives, their children's lives. they are leaving their homes under duress in fear for their safety. we are vetting them at such a level it takes them 18 months. david miliband has challenged us and said we should take at least 65,000 refugees a year. such an order of magnitude is higher than what we are doing. martin o'malley has embraced this but no one set a number as to what we should have done like david has done. british, his country, 20,000 over five years. that's pretty pathetic. i'm sorry to say. the point is this hillary clinton is right. everyone should do it. the way that she hedged it makes us seem pathetic on the edge of any absorption that people are in trouble or need. that convinces muslims in the middle east --
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>> martin o'malley pointed out if we were doing this on a proportional basis from our population to germany's population we could accept 800,000. i don't think that is a number you will hear from anyone on the presidential debate stage next week. >> that is martin o'malley. that doesn't surprise me at all. the more the merrier without regard to consequences. that's big part of this, as well. you have to ask yourself, what the europeans sort of slow boating this and taking their time and not responding in a way that, you know, we should see them respond. the u.s. is the same way. what is it about syria and about these refugees? what is it about the situation? i think the foreign minister's last point is the starting point for a lot of these allies and nato and around the globe is what is the situation military,
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islamic terrorism, all of that with respect to syria and how does that bleed out through the refugees. that's a concern. i think it's a matter of balance right now. it's one that unfortunately real lives are caught in the middle of that trap. >> how open are the communication channels among all of the governments in europe about trying to coordinate how many they are taking in each country? is each country just kind of thinking and talking about this. >> the information is clear. europe has been focused on the euro crisis in greece and the ukraine crisis over the last few years and syria has been really taken backstage. it has taken german leadership to overcome what we call in the u.k. beggar my neighbor, inward looking thinking. german leadership has sprung france in to action. italy and belgium will follow. i think a big number will come out of the european summit is on
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monday. the tragedy it seems to me for the united states is historically you have been the country that has led the world in refugee resettlement. the height of the vietnamese, people in the '80s, 150,000 a year. that's what makes the 1500 figure that steve has spoken to so shocking to many people. this has been a country that shows there are safe ways to integrating communities and successful syrian-american communities in the united states already here saying to bring our brothers, our cousins here and they are not allowed to. >> what would you say to americans and policymakers on the issue of the fear of terrorists slipping in among such a large group? >> i think it is an important point to address and be open about. it is tougher to get to the united states as a refugee than any other form. the security vetting that goes on is very substantial and serious. i think that what's important is that we can see those syrian americans who have made it here
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are becoming productive citizens. i have met them myself. we resettled 10,000 new americans every year. i have met the syrian american community that we helped resettle here. they become some of the most patriotic people in the country because they know the country has given them a chance. steve's point is profound and important. he said it in passing. it is easy to say, look, 1500 is very few. 65,000 isn't going to end the war in syria. as a mark of showing the people that we are willing to stand with them. even at this time of when it proved impossible to do the hard thing, which is to end the war we are doing things that are more viable. that's key if we are going to make progress in the future. >> thank you very much for being with us tonight. steve clemons, michael steele, thank you for joining us. coming up, remember when
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mark zuckerberg just wrote a $100 million check and gave it to the newark public school system to save the system. what do you think happened to 100 million? an nbc news exclusive, two of the three survivors of the charleston massacre speak out about what happened inside of mother emanuel ame church on that day. you will have to hear this to believe what that experience was actually like for that mother. i say we go all in on the internet... of things. what we're recommending as your consultants... the new consultants are here. it's not just big data... it's bigger data. we're beta testing the new wearable interface... ♪ xerox believes finding the right solution shouldn't be so much work. by engineering a better way for people, process and technology to work together.
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today lester holt met two of the survivors of the charleston massacre at the emanuel ame church. they described what it was like to be this that church in the line of fire. felicia sanders told lester holt of the agony of watching her son take his last breath. >> we were just about to say a prayer to be released and he caught us with our eyes closed. i never told nobody this. we had our eyes closed. the shots rang out. >> reporter: sanders was at the bible study with her aunt susie jackson. her 11-year-old grand daughter and 26-year-old son. >> i remember my son saying, mama he shot me in the head.
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i was telling my son, i said, just lay here, just lay here. my grand daughter was hollering, saying she was so afraid. it hurts me so bad. because i struggle with what could i have done differently that i did. because i tried my best to save both of them. >> you saved your grand daughter. you held her. >> yes. i nuzzled her so hard. i'm surprised i didn't suffocate her. i tried to hold her as tight as i could so she wouldn't make a sound.
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and i just heard -- i heard every shot. i heard every single shot. >> reporter: despite hit multiple times, her son tried to protect the others, including his aunt susie. >> he said where's aunt susie? i have to get to aunt susie. he didn't stop until he could get to aunt susie. >> he had been wounded several times and he is still trying to crawl to his aunt. >> he got there. he said i love you, tywanza. i love you, i love you and i watched him take his last breath. >> reporter: before leaving the bible study room the shooter stopped in front of polly shepherd who was hiding under a table. >> when he got to me, he could hear me spraying and he said shut up . did i shoot you yet? i said no. he said i'm not going to. i'm going to leave you here to tell the story.
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>> were you ready to die. >> i was ready. if this is the way i'm supposed to go this is the way i will go. >> nine people lost their lives that night, killed by a man they welcomed with open arms in to their bible study. just two days after the massacre, the nation marvelled when family members of the victims, included felicia sanders offered their forgiveness to dylann roof. >> i told him, may god have mercy on your soul. and i honestly hope god had mercy on his soul. >> the young man shot a tv reporter and camera person recently, and he said the charleston church shooting was the breaking point. >> you can't integrate the two. >> that made me so sad. i never wanted any one parent to feel what i felt. it numbs you. just numbs you.
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>> etched in their memories is the benediction they were about to utter when the shots rang out. >> one from the other amen. >> what was your impression the way the whole country embraced emanuel church. >> it is amazing to see the caring and amazing to see everyone together as one nation. so you're a small business expert from at&t? yeah, give me a problem and i've got the solution. well, we have 30 years of customer records. our cloud can keep them safe and accessible anywhere. my drivers don't have time to fill out forms. tablets. keep it all digital. we're looking to double our deliveries. our fleet apps will find the fastest route. oh, and your boysenberry apple scones smell about done.
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we just need to make sure she has what she needs. welcome to windows 10. the future starts now for all of us. city of baltimore has formally agreed to a settlement of 6.4 million for the family of freddie gray who died in police custody in april. the five member s of the board of estimates voted to approve the settlement. freddie gray suffered a fatal final injury in the back of a baltimore police van. his death let to rioting in baltimore and to charges against six baltimore police officers. up next, remember when a woman could get arrested just for wearing pants in this country? you don't? okay. we will tell you about that next in "her story." at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like mute buttons equal danger.
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to have and to hold from this day forward for better, for worse, for richer for poorer in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and to obey until death do us part. that's the marriage vow for brides in the book of common prayer, which was used in this country for centuries. the vow for grooms is identical except for the words "and to obey." there's nothing in the vow about how the husband should be obeying the wife. just the wife obeying the husband. and so mary walker took those words out of her wedding vows in 1855, and she refused to take her husband's last name.
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so it is mary walker, her name, that appears on her congressional medal of honor, which she received in 1865 when she became the first woman to receive the congressional medal of honor. this is her story. mary walker was born in 1832 and grew up on a farm in upstate new york where her father was a self-taught country doctor. mary's parents were abolitionists and their home was a stop on the underground railroad providing shelter and a hideout for escaped slaves on their way to freedom in canada. mary had four sisters and a younger brother and they all worked on the farm. as a teenager, mary grew fascinated by her father's medical books and spent time with neighbors who were very ill so she could observe their symptoms. in 1853, mary was accepted at syracuse medical college, one of the very few medical schools that admitted women then.
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harvard medical school, founded 70 years before syracuse medical college did not admit women until 1945. that's how difficult it has been historically for women to become doctors in this country. one of the great american freedom movements that has faded from our collective memory was dress reform. mary in mary walker's day, a woman could actually get arrested for dressing like this. in fact, mary walker was arrested many times for wearing pants, and she was charged with impersonating a man. her parents were bold believers in practical clothing for their daughters working with on the farm. so they all grew up wearing with pants. mary wore pants under her wedding dress. mary became the president of the national dress reform association. she wrote -- "the greatest soar
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zeros from which women suffer today are those physical, moral, mental ones that are caused by their unhygienic manner of dressing. she believed tight corsets were unhealthy. mary walker also worked to get women the right to vote. in 1881, she became the first female candidate for united states senate in this country saying the women did not have the right to vote. she saw nothing in the constitution that prevented them from holding elected office. it was her service in the civil war that won her the congressional medal of honor. when the war broke out, mary went to washington to request to enlist as an army surgeon. her request was denied. she then volunteered in a makeshift hospital in washington with 100 severely wounded soldiers. mary kept requesting formal appointments as an army surgeon and kept getting rejected. in 1862, she set off to the battlefield herself and offered her services there as a
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volunteer. the army surgeons she worked with supported her appeal to washington for a formal appointment but she was again denied. newspapers began to pick up the story of the woman doctor on the battlefield. the new york tribune wrote, the lady is exceedingly popular among the soldiers in the hospitals and is undoubtedly doing much good. in 1864, general george henry thomas, under his authority as commander of the army of the cumberland, hired mary as a contract surgeon and she was fine finally earning a salary equivalent to a "with captain. she was held for four months and released in a prison swap for a a confederate surgeon. she then -- abraham lincoln described her treatment as a prisoner of war and mary immediately returned to the battlefield helping to treat the thousands of wounded after the battle of atlanta.
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the most urgent and controversial decision facing battlefield surgeons then was amputation. after the war, mary said, there were cases where soldiers had been wounded in the arm or leg and in the most pitiful manner that made it difficult for me to suppress my emotions. they would ask me if that leg would have to come off, if that arm would have to come off, telling me that they would with rather die than lose a leg or lose an arm. most leg amputations resulted in death. the high on the leg amputation, the higher the likelihood of death. mary worried that some doctors were doing hasty unnecessary amputation. her biography describes how she tried to reduce the number of amputations. she began a process of double
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checking a patient's wounds whenever she heard one of the suspect doctors intended to remove a limb if she thought surgery was unwarranted she counselled the soldier and told soldiers not to reveal she had counselled them. in later years, she insisted that many a man today has the perfectly good use of his limbs who would not have had but for my advice. several soldiers wrote after the war to thank her for saving their limbs. dr. mary walker received the congressional medal of honor in 1865 at the age of 32. after decades of abuse of the medal of honor, including easily copied and sold counterfeit medals of honor the war department reviewed all medal of honor rewards and revoked almost 1,000 of them in 1916 including dr. mary walker's medal. and so suddenly at age 84 it became a crime for mary walker.
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to wear it until her death a few years later at the age of 87 in 1919 and 51 years later, after a pentagon investigation of the case, president jimmy carter restored dr. mary walker's medal of honor on june 11th, 1977. if you take a tour of the pentagon, you can see her medal there on display. dr. mary walker, the first woman to receive a congressional medal of honor remains to this day the only woman to receive the congressional medal of honor. and that is "her story." can a business have a mind?
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mark zuckerberg donated $100 million to the newark school system and what did newark do with that money? the answer is next. ...to show my love. ta-da! all this devotion only calls for a little bit of dawn ultra. now even more concentrated. just one bottle has the grease cleaning power of two bottles of this other liquid. you still got it, romeo. a drop of dawn and grease is gone.
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you are looking at can you spot the differee?. no? you can't see that? alright, let's take a look. the one on the right just used 1% less fuel than the one on the left. now, to an airline, a 1% difference could save enough fuel to power hundreds of flights around the world. hey, look at that. pyramids. so you see, two things that are exactly the same have never been more different. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. i'm having a flash back to an amazing moment on the oprah winfrey show five years ago with then mayor of newark corey booker and new jersey governor chris christie and mark zuckerberg. >> so mayor booker for those that don't know, what's the big news?
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>> we have been talking for quite sometime about creating a bold new paragon to show the put the people in the drivers point and give resources we need to give to them to succeed. >> governor, what are you committing to? >> i'm committed to changing the schools in the city where i was born. i spent the first years of my life and mayor booker will be the point person, the lead guide to help develop this plan on how to reform the education system in newark and create a national model. >> mr. zuckerberg, what role are you playing in all of this? are the rumors true, will there be a check offered at some point. >> i have committed to starting the start up education foundation. first project will be $100 million challenge grant. >> $100 million. [ applause ] yo, yo, yo, yo, yo.
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>> a new book "the prize, who's in charge of american schools" tells the important story of what happens next in newark. the prize may well be one of the most important books on education to come along in years. joining us the author of that book dale -- i want to ask how it worked out in new jersey. let's listen to how chris christie says it worked out in new jersey. he said this in new hampshire of course last month. let's listen to this. >> the story in newark has been good. start off with mark zuckerberg and his $100 million contribution. it was fully matched and the money has gone to great purpose in terms of getting merit pay for teachers, getting rid of teaches that didn't belong there and using some of that money to pay off teachers to leave. that's how crazy the system is.
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we have to pay them to leave when they are ineffective. >> the story in newark has been really good according to chris christie, thanks to that 100 million. >> sounds like everything has worked out well. >> so -- >> well, it's interesting. a couple of things he said actually didn't happen. he said -- >> no way, you are kidding? he was inaccurate about some of that? >> yeah. he seems to think this is true. he seems to think this did happen but it didn't. the goal was to use $20 million to buy out the quote bad teachers and get them to leave. if you are going to have a buyout you have to offer it to everyone and good people can take it along with the bad ones. he did raise money from his donor and they committed it to a $20 million fund to buy out the bad teachers and it's not possible so the moneis still sitting there. >> that is emblematic of so many stories told in here. these new sort of cold eyed
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analysts of education, relatively new to the subject say let's get rid of the bad teachers. forget how you define. that having worked as a public schoolteacher myself i would defy anyone who define that on a big scale, pick one or two here and. there secondly there are all sorts of laws out there that have nothing to do with the education system that prevent them from doing things they i think can do. >> yes. it's interesting. one of the main things that even the obama administration was trying to get states to do, and more of the half of the states agree is to rate students on test scores them formula they use to determine the growth of a student and attribute it to a teacher was developed by a scientist whom i interviewed for the book and he said it was never intended to do that. the formula tells you if students have grown in a subject but doesn't tell you why they grew. the teachers -- is a small part of why a student might or might
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not. >> the report card five years out on newark experiment, $100 million zuckerberg experiment? >> well at best it is very mixed. >> is that a c, a c plus, what is that? >> it is probably at best a c minus. >> the book tells the story of most people abandon their commitments to this. zuckerberg and his wife seem to have learned from it and they are trying an improved approach on the west coast. >> yes. one of the things that was really most problematic about this is they tried to change the newark school actress the top down with outsiders money and no involvement from the people on the ground, the people in the schools, parents of the children. the thinking is it is best for kids if we do what is right and the local special interests will try to stop that. >> we are out of time. can we continue our conversation and post it on-line? >> of course. >> we are in to overtime. dale russakoff has the last word on tv.
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the book is "the prize." >> cruz, trump, and palin, a big day for the war hogs. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. there they were in the hot sun before the u.s. capitol. a pageant of the trump-led tea party. one last stab at the iranian nuclear agreement. all this doom's day after yesterday' reunion in washington of the gung ho folks who brought us the 2003 iraq war that last more than 200,000 dead. do i have to tell you who was at the get-together of hawks, do i? >> he's been shot.

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