tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC September 25, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
this is quite a moment for catholics especially a very high mass and with all the bells and all the ritual we grew up with. is this the same all over the world? >> yes, the mass is identical. this is interesting because you have the pope speaking in english and then spanish and now the main segment of mass in latin. this is clearly the language of the church but not generally the language of the people anywhere in the world anymore. so it's a very interesting combination within this liturgy and adds certain reverence. >> how many places in the world do you have the latin mass still celebrated? >> there still are places in the world. it's a small segment of the community and priesthood that celebrates.
this is not the frontier mass. this is the contemporary mass. probably in some of the older catholics are familiar but younger generation would not be. >> i grew up as an alter boy we had latin mass all the time growing up. joining us with us now is also senior vatican analyst george weigl. >> what occurs to me is that we might try to link this to remarkable events earlier today. we saw the pope at the u.n. as a voice attempting to bring moral reasoning to politics. we saw him as a healer at ground zero at the memorial to victims of 9/11. now we are seeing him in the role that ties all of that
together. he is a catholic priest. what the church does at holy mass, what the church does at the eucharist is what makes sense of everything else. without this we are simply another nongovernmental organization. pope has said that. he doesn't want the church to simply be another ngo. >> what is happening here at madison square garden makes sense of the whole business, the service, outreach, dialogue with other world religions. it all comes out of this celebration of the eucharist which the second vatican council called the source and summit of the church's life. ♪
grant peace in our days that by the help of the mercy we may be always free from sin and safe from all the stress as we await the blessed hope and the coming of our savior jesus christ. ♪ >> jesus christ you said to your apostles, peace i leave you, my peace i give you. look not on our sins, but on the
>> while we watch communion time let's have a chance to talk watching the very impressive mass with the pope at madison square garden. thank you for joining us. i see you occasionally at blessed sacrament. it's the same mass but this is quite grand. >> it is a really beautiful mass and it was striking to hear the latin which is a universal language in the church even though it is largely forgotten and you and i probably as kids have to learn very difficult parts of the mass in latinfe. i have to say i have been so struck during this mass and during his sermon and throughout this trip about the emphasis that pope francis puts on love and mercy. you can preach about a judgment and that god never disappears and preach a god of justice and a god of justice is very much part of what he is talking
about. he constantly comes back to a god of love and mercy. he said in his sermon about jesus he keeps telling disciples to go where they are not where we think they should be. and he specifically talked about a merciful father. the other two things that really struck me over the last couple of days are the intense humility of this man and not just a personal humility, but it's an intellectual humility. it was powerful in the speech in congress when he said don't divide the world into righteous and sinner. he said no churches are immune but the overwhelming thing is joy. he wrote a document called the joy of the gospel. the one time i got close to him was at catholic charities here in d.c. he radiates joy with everybody he meets. when you think about the
combination of humility and joy that is appealing way beyond the confines of the catholic church. i got a couple of e-mails from nonbelieving friends who said do i have to believe to belong to the catholic church? they were so struck by francis at the capital when he said even if you don't believe wish me well. oddly, preaching a gospel that way as opposed to saying i am right and you are wrong, this way is much more evangelical. >> professor, you know i wanted to continue the thoughts about the ritual here and the role of latin. are we going to keep some role for latin? >> it is the language of the church. i think it will always be a part of the church and it can be used anywhere in the world. the eucharist can be celebrated in any language.
latin is just one among those. one comment following on saying the opening prayer was may god ask us to be an instrument of his peace. and the gospel and the reflection was people who have walked in darkness have seen a great light. this man is an instrument of peace and is a great light. >> tell us about the jesuit aspect of this pope. do you feel it when you observe what he does and what he says? do you hear the philosophy lessons the jesuits particularly are given as part of the 15-year effort to become a jesuit priest? >> he is a son of loyola. when one looks at the foundation of the society to serve the church under the banner of the cross you see that in the life of pope francis.
in his homily this mass a mass for justice and peace. and when he talks about the prince of peace many of us tend to think we are praying for peace in distant countries or other parts of the world. he connects it to us personally. he says christ removes us from the fray of competition and opens before us the path of peace, the peace born of accepting others, the peace which fills our hearts. he is really calling everyone who is watching, everyone in madison square garden to be an instrument of christ's peace. again, a very jesuit, very ignaceous theme. >> i was so struck, if i could, when you spoke to mayor flynn about ethnicity and we who write about politics are mostly accustomed to talking about
ethnic groups in the city and why they hate each other. i was struck when the pope referred to this he said in this place with all itsivator and the common interests of so many people. he automatically went not to differences leading to conflict but to differences leading to common interest. it doesn't always happen in our politics but that is the aspiration he laid out for us. >> mayor, i want to bring you back in. i think people think of you as a conservative catholic on the issue of abortion rights and being strict with the church on that and observant to teachings. the people that have had the biggest public reaction to this pontiff are those on the liberal side. how do the two groups get together? the people who have been accepting and teaching authority and those who have questioned it
and those who have found a way around it through cafeteria catholicism. >> i am a democrat and always have been. i grew up in south boston. mostly i am a pro life social and economic justice catholic committed to the poor. that doesn't necessarily fit into any political party. having said that i didn't have very many pictures in the mayor's office in boston but i have one picture in fact for the ten years that i was mayor there was one person that ever came into may office of all the prominent people that i had that recognize the picture and was governor mario cuomo of new york. it was christ in the bread line. of all of these candidates for presidents and presidents of banks in my office they only saw one picture. they didn't recognize christ in a soup kitchen in a bread line
that was a famous picture. they saw homeless people. they knew that i was president of the mayors and chairman of the homeless commission. there it is today. pope francis is showing us he sees christ in the bread line. that's what i take away from pope francis' comments tonight. pope francis saw christ in the soup kitchen and in the bread line. >> i'm going to add you to my list of wanted. you are the second one that in the political sense accepts everything the holy father speaks about. a friend of mine in charge of mission and ministry at georgetown university. it is great to have you on tonight. they are serving communion and taking the taunt to talk to everybody who is watching right now. you deal with the ministry of the jesuit community.
the people in the early 20s, getting kids and i mean kids in their 20s to go to church. the old school was get them out of bed, to church so they don't live in your house anymore. today it is hard to treat children like that. how do we do this? >> thanks, chris. it is great to be here. i think the pope's style is very approachable for young people. he has a way of talking using images and stories and idiom that really speak to young people. he also preaches to them where they are at. i'm struck here watching this the mix of the secular and sacred and here where the knicks plays and where billy joel plays his monthly concert we have the holy mass of the catholic church. in a sense the setting fits in perfectly with the homily that we heard that is take what happens here and go out into the
streets. even as he speaks pope francis is always bringing in the people of the street, the people, the working poor, the people that we too easily look over. he is always bringing to us through his words, homilies and speeches. if there is one avenue that is most attracted to young people i find is the commitment to social justice that while they may have questions about their faith, their passion for justice is clear and it's real and it's vibrant. often once many young people engage the works of justice that is the avenue into discussions of faith. >> professor, tell us while we have a moment here because i'm fascinated with it, a friend of mine, recovering alcoholic for 30 something years very much in the program. he really points to writings as very important in his recovery effort. do you have a sense of what that is all about? >> inspired many.
his life story is a remarkable one. this is a man who left behind a prominent secular life at columbia university who was into radical philosophy and found the gospel. so changed his life dramatically and went to a monastery and within the monastery lived within a monastery within a monastery and lived separate from the rest of the community in isolation as kind of a hermit. that is a huge transformation in anybody's life. your friend obviously was inspired by that. clearly this pope is inspired by him. i am so delighted to hear his name mentioned with dorothy day. abraham lincoln and martin luther king we are familiar with. these other figures we are not. these have been hugely influential figures on social issues and bringing the two together and also for our friend, the monk it was always a dialogue of religions. he was interested in the other.
not christian or catholic but whoever -- this seems to be the same. >> george, put together the spiritual mt. rushmore. how does that add to something that has a unity to it? >> when i was talking with pope francis about 16 months ago in rome he made a very sharp distinction between what he called men of power and men of principle. he is very suspicious of the former and very admiring of the latter. if we look at lincoln, dr. king, dorothy day, thomas murten, we see people who had flaws, people who were sinners, but who all cooperated with the grace of god in their lives as they understood god to be working in their lives to do great things
and be forces of liberation for others. i read a lot of thomas murten when i was in high school and college. i used to have his picture on my desk. he did more to introduce americans to classic monastic spirituality than anyone in the 20th century. dorothy day, a life of endless adventure, a woman who had a bit of a walk on the wild side in her early life who became a staunch advocate of social justice, a great prolife witness, supporter of element of her you don't hear mentioned very often and then dr. king and president lincoln who in their own unique ways had very interesting relationships with the lord, with the power of god
and struggled to bend that power as it works for human lives to the end of liberation. it was remarkable and i thought a real kind of love song to america and summons us to perhaps be better than we have been in recent months and years. >> your last thought because i think you probably have thought a lot about dorothy day because of your concern. going back to the social gospel of the catholic church. >> i have a letter that dorothy day wrote to a friend of my mom's hanging in my georgetown office. i was overjoyed with the list that the pope offered. i think for all of us including
liberals, not just conservatives there is a radicalism of dorothy day. dorothy day so striking to hear the reading offer no resistance to one who is evil turn the other cheek. that is dorothy day. i'm not a passivist myself. i have always been challenged by that. murten the same way was always looking for truth in god wherever he could find it. very much in common with pope francis he spent years in dialogue with buddhist monks and saw a lot of commonality in the monastic life. for the pope to list these figures, lincoln and king for sure but these two figures who are among the most radical people in the american tradition i think that laid down a real challenge for all americans and particularly for catholics.
>> would this surprise the jesuit members of the order that these four americans were singled out for really to get us to read what they had to say? i think most of us will try to do that. i will put it next to my bed and get it done. i am impressed that the pope said this is the man you should follow. >> i tnk members of the jesuit order would first look to the name he chose, francis. and i must say i knew it was for soon after he was elected because in his autobiography asked what would francis and dominic have done? he looked to others. so it is characteristic that pope francis would look to the culture of the united states to lincoln and king but also to dorothy day in the catholic worker movement. he would not -- he is in no way
interested in promoting his own order or any particular agenda rather recognizing holiness where he sees it. >> we are going to continue watching this high mass from madison square garden. it's quite a moment for catholics and other people to see the catholic church but also to remember i think very important to keep in mind the best work of the church is with the poor and the sick and the elderly and the teaching role the church plays every day of the week especially the work done by the nuns who aren't so evident here tonight.
[ applause ] you have seen our cathedral. you have seen our catholic schools. you have seen our catholic charities. and now you lead us in the most important and powerful act we can do, the holy sacrifice of the mass. [ applause ] here you see people from all of our parishes, our leaders, our religious sisters and brothers, our seminariens, deacons, priests, bishops. our organizations, our
ministries, our neighbors, so many benefactors and civic leaders, god's faithful people. it is so radiant on an evening like this, is it not, my brothers and sisters that god -- [ applause ] it is so radiantly evident that god is our father, that jesus is our lord, our savior, our older brother, that mary is our mother, that saints like jesuit north american martyrs, saint
>> you know, it's interesting when you remember the words that the holy father concluded at the u.n. he asked, he promised the prayers of the church for peace and then tonight he asked for us to pray for him. it reminds me of the first moment he came out in st. peter's square, his first public act as pope he prayed for his predecessor, pope benedict xvi and then asked people to pray for him. i know people who were there that night and hundreds of thousands of people gathered there and said you could hear a pin drop it was so quiet the way people prayed for him. it's a very endearing quality of this holy father. >> i have to say being from philly what a demonstrative
performance by the cardinal. >> you know, chris, i was thinking he came to the white house. he came to the united nations, the nation's capitol to speak before congress. and my favorite athletic place madison square garden. tomorrow, chris, he is going to go to the most -- he is going to meet the most important institution in america, in the world. that is the american family, the family, the root of the soul and the heart of america. chris, i would say one other thing because i heard you say beautifully yesterday about you gave the homily at your aunt's funeral, sister of st. joseph who talk me. yesterday at st. patrick's church the holy father praised the nuns and thanked them for all that they did.
st. patrick's cathedral stood up. one last thing, chris, i think tomorrow you are going to see a great recognition of special needs children, handicap children and their courageous and heroic mothers and fathers. if they never had anybody with them, if they never felt they had anybody with them now they have the pope and the support of the catholic church and the american public. >> you and i know growing up how many families had down's syndrome children. >> i have a little boy with me now, my little grand son, brayden, 9 year old born with a rare neurological disease. the pope provides hope for him when medical community can't provide any solution. >> let me go to e.j. for a second just to give us some thoughts. again, it's not my role to be critical. i'm not a critic on this.
these are church rituals with all men and the women from sunday to sunday in between do all the work of the church. they are there every day. i spent so much time there with them. it's something under played for people in the wonderful ritual of the church. there is nothing there for the nuns. >> without the nuns the church would have collapsed a long time ago. they are the people who are closest to all of those pope francis talks about. they are the people who run the hospitals. they are the people who started the schools and in many cases still teach there. they are in all of these places of need. i thought it was very striking at the vespers service last night that the lines that the pope spoke about the sisters, about the nuns got the most
sustained applause it was almost like and perhaps i am reading something into this but the c g congregation about nuns and women in particular in the church. pope francis ended this kind of investigation into the american nuns. i think some of what he said in praising them for being outspoken was important. i think the audience was acting in support of them. i think that struck me at a lot of these events, as well. it is something the church will have to keep thinking about and maybe someday doing something about. >> i saw the same women in the back row. that was so much a statement in itself. let's go inside madison square garden to someone there, my associate, my colleague joy reed. you are in there. what don't we see?
what don't we feel? what don't we smell besides the innocence which i can imagine. >> reporter: i can tell you the catholic church put on display. [ inaudible ] it's home to people on display here today you saw people speaking in multiple lang wuages languages. you saw the pope give a beautiful homily in spanish and quite eloquent in spanish. you saw people greetings and prayer in french and italian et cetera. before the pope even arrived here there was a service that was actually a lure to get people to come here early. so to lure people earlier they had incredible program.
[ inaudible ] it is now wrapping up so they can be cleared back out of msg. back to you, chris. >> quite a challenge to hear above the music right there. what did you sense among the people there? i think most people there are catholic based upon their responses to -- >> reporter: i can tell you that i spoke with a number of people -- >> we will have to go -- technical problem. let's go to ann thompson outside of madison square garden. what a familiar spot in new york that is. tell us about the people outside. >> reporter: it has been amazing, chris. i am looking over here. i can see the corner of 34th and 8th avenue. and it is jammed. i kid you not, there are people, kids on their dad's shoulders. people have papal flags.
i have cuban flags in the crowd. and it is people have stood out here extraordinary patiently just hoping to catch a glimpse of pope francis. as i was walking here this evening i heard women talking just trying to figure out where they could go so they could see him. he has become such a powerful symbol to people, a symbol of compassion, a symbol of mercy, a symbol of inclusion. that was something, a theme that went through his remarks last night at st. patrick's cathedral when before giving his formal remarks he wanted to reach out to as he called them his brother muslims and offer his condolences for what happened in mecca. today at ground zero at the interfaiths gathering i thought it was extraordinary. you had all these different religions represented. it was a way of showing that
everybody felt the pain of what happened that day at ground zero and yet we only come together only if we come together can we really heal. i think that measure, that message of inclusion has really impressed people in the 2 1/2 years that he has been pope. >> you know new york and thought the service tonight, the mass, especially the comments by the cardinal were as much new york as catholic. it was like chuck schumer was up there. there was a very demonstrative appeal. >> listen, if he wasn't cardinal of new york he would be mayor of new york. >> i theng so because when he went out there and said we prayed for you every mass in new york and all over the united states we do that and then he said there you are with us. it was such a grab for the audience and the audience came right back and applauded for
like five minutes just to applaud his presence. it was like somebody had to do it and tim dolan did it. the magic is not that he exists, but that he is here. that is the wonderful showmanship and big heart of new york city expressed by its cardinal. thank you so much. this is an odd way usually you go to mass and attend. the music is great and it has been a great evening here for msnbc to cover it. joining me is the theology professor at georgetown university, expert in the catholic church and papacy. what did you make to the pope's reaction to the grand demonstration of new york, the grandiosity, if you will. >> he greeted it with a million dollar smile which i thought was terrific. despite his humility he has a sense of joy that comes out to
everyone. when i watch this i feel like the whole country went to mass tonight whether you are a catholic or not. the ritual is beautiful. it was well executed. the homily was inspiring. how could you not leave this venue thinking this is a great church and this is a great man to lead it with a message from the gospel that is transformative for the world? that is exactly what i think should be doing. it is the levin for our society. not the exclusive one. by the way, i was surprised. i thought cardinal dolan was the mayor of new york. >> let me ask you, professor, about the trajectory coming out of this. i think the pope is as much a tourist as anyone. living to be 78 years old in latin america and then to be thinking about the united states whenever he picks up a newspaper and to have an idea about it and then to see the reality, it must have shaken him to realize how
joyous a country we are and we are not a bunch of capitalists. he met a lot of rich people there in new york. i have to tell you there is a lot of vitality in this country. i wonder how it struck him. >> i think in two ways. one is the preparation he did for this trip was so obvious. so many venues, so many speeches or homilies or prayers all sensitively constructed around the american experience. it's almost like he lives here. when he went to the congress and said the home of the free and the brave and everybody -- it was just -- >> he knew how to get to us. >> he understands our society so much better now that he has seen it. obviously he can't help but be delighted with the response that he has gotten. this is so good for him as a support when saying pray for him
and the support after a very rough decade. >> i think saying we are a good country in so many ways not a perfect country but a good country is a powerful message. joining me is father kevin o'brien charge of mission and ministry one of the great universities. father o'brien your thoughts near the end of our broadcast. i thought this is so new york, new york. the town they like so much they named it twice. >> i just agree speaking about how the whole country seemed to go to mass tonight. i thank msnbc for sticking with it. i think we got a taste for the beauty of the catholic church and its gritty reality. the different languages we heard. it is inspiring. i loved how in the homily the pope brought out he talked about real people. the forgotten people, the people on the streets who we don't
notice, the people working to support our lives. i think in every venue he is trying to bring our attention, every american, every person in the world to all of the people whom to all the people whom we are most likely to overlook, and he'll either talk about them or he'll go greet them and there will be a picture of them with the pope. and i think the gospel, which we heard tonight, should always be challenging to us. it should console. but it's got to challenge all of us, catholic or not, to live with more integrity and to put words into action and faith into justice and to try to make this world a more just and gentle place. and i think if there's a theme he began this morning talking about reconciliation at the u.n. and talking about specific issues and he ends tonight talking about how we will do the work with god's help and the help of one another. >> mayor flynn, i want to give you a chance to talk about contrasts here. for weeks now we've been covering a personality in our american political world who has
a big mouth, he's very proud of himself. he talks about being rich. he talks about people who are not rich as losers. he makes fun of people because of their looks. now we have a pope who comes in and talks to the people at the periphe periphery, the people who have been forgotten, the apoms people. what a contrast. maybe that's why we're all in such a good mood. >> well, i think the reason why we're feeling so good is because we sxaw and heard a very humble man, a very genuine man, a man who reflects the vam yoouz of the catholic faith and the teachings of he jesus christ. this has been around for 2,000 years. my father was a dock worker, never had much education, but he said to me, ray, everything will change over time. the only thing that will never change is the truth. we heard the truth in washington. we heard the truth here in new york. and we're going to hear the truth tomorrow in philadelphia. that's the message that pope
francis brought to this country. and we are grateful for his presence. >> was he from charlestown? your father. >> no, he's from south boston. but he was a dockworker. my wife's father was a dockworker from charlestown. and my father was a dockworker from south boston. and nobody could be prouder of their catholic faith and their family than they were. >> let me go to e.j. dionne for another crack at the contrast of our news coverage. msnbc i think has been very honored to be able to cover the pope's visit basically gavel to gavel. and it's been an honor for me to work with brian williams and the rest of us to do that. and after so much trump what do you think? >> i think the pope should extend his visit two or three more weeks because it might have -- we might have a little less trump. it is one of his miracles. he's driven trump off cable
television. >> i'm laughing at the idiocy that we do find entertaining of trump. but it is all the values we were taught against in catholic school. bragging about being -- even using the word "rich," we weren't supposed to use. talking about poor people as losers. making fun of people's faces. all the things that you were taught as the most basic moral structure of your lives. and it is entertaining i suppose in a sick way to watch someone be so disrespectful of those values. but my god, this is a pope who said those are the values. >> he turned trump on his head. you know, trump is talking about not welcoming immigrants. the pope is all about welcoming immigrants and said don't look at numbers. you're not supposed to brag about being rich. i mean, he just said today you that needed to be liberated from too much striving and to take some time to look out for
others. so yes, i think for us it was a fantastic change of pace. if i could say one other thing. i was struck by his quoting isaiah in his sermon today. isaiah talks about bringing glad tidings to the poor, healing to the afflicted, liberty to captives and comfort to those who mourn. i think that is what people hope that religion might do. i think even non-religious people. and i thought that passage from isaiah really captured what this trip, what pope francis has been doing on this trip. and again, that's a real relief from what we are accustomed to talking about most evenings together. >> i know. father kiseki, let's talk about this. it's almost as if this pontiff is trying to keep going the reformation, the catholic counter-reformation, rather, trying to get away from the trappings that benedict so much exemplified. the grandeur of st. peter's.
the papacy itself. the cardinal in boston has done that. but trying to get away from all the stuff that elevates the leaders of the church and separates them from the people who really need the church. >> you know, i think -- first it's important to say, chris, that pope francis really does believe in the continuity of the papacy and we know he still has a strong relationship with his predecessor, pope benedict. but we knew his archbishop of buenos aires he gave up the palace. he lived in an apartment. he took public transportation. he felt that the best way to preach the gospel was to live like one who is poor. and so going to rome and living in the vatican, he has continued along that path and he has said basically that there really is no imperial papacy, one doesn't need a palace, one doesn't need a limousine, one doesn't need those trappings to define himself. he wants to be seen as a poor
shepherd, one who walks with a simple staff like christ. always remember that when he realized that the cardinals had elected him he turned to a really revered figure, cardinal humez and humez said to him, don't forget the poor. that's when he knew that the name he would choose was francis. so he said repeatedly-i want a poor church for the poor. we should likewise do the same, to give up the trapgpings in ou own life so we can be more like him. >> let's go to rehema ellis. rehema, what's it like there? it seems like every time the pope goes back to where he's staying at night there's a gaggle of great-looking young kids cheering him like he's whatever, the pope. >> reporter: here it's a little bit different, chris. this is almost like a fortress. we know that the pope is on his way because they are stopping vehicular traffic from moving
here on madison avenue, and they even stopped pedestrians from moving. you see one or two people now. but this will all come to a halt as the pope makes his way here back to the residence. there are even lookouts on the roofs of the building surrounding the area. but the pope made an effort today to get close to people here at this residence. they invited some people in at 6:00 this morning who had an opportunity to see the pope. and this afternoon a bus of folks from the ronald mcdonald house came, parents and their children, many of them suffering from pediatric cancer, illnesses. and we talked with one mother whose 10-year-old daughter has cancer. she's been treated for the last six years. and she said to me, the fact that the pope blessed her daughter and the other children here at a time when they feel there is no hope and there's so much difficulty, this gave them hope. this pope reached out to them. and that's the kind of thing, it really is the signature i think
of this pope that while people are being kept away from him he invited people in, chris. >> rehema, that's so great. i watched the mass in madison square garden, as you did. and i saw one of the people in the audience was quadriplegic, you know, had trouble breathing and the whole works in that condition. and i was thinking about how people in that condition really do look to spiritual wonders, even miracles. you know what i mean? it's like anything gives hope. >> reporter: it really is. and the woman who was here, she was from toronto, canada, with her daughter. and she said while she is catholic there were other people who came today to get a blessing from the pope who are not catholic but they are reaching, they are looking, they are searching. they're hoping for something to help heal their children. and the pope is here willing to offer his blessing, they would gladly receive it. and again, he in turn asked these children and these parents
to pray for him and to offer him their good wishes. >> rehema, thanks for that reporting from where the pope's going to end up tonight. as he prepares to go to philadelphia very early tomorrow. i want to thank my wonderful group of guests tonight. we come from all over. we're joined throughout our coverage of the pope's mass this night. ambassador raye. father timothy kinsec kichlt. e.j. dionne. chester ellis of georgetown. chester weigel has been our great friend in understanding the papacy. and a wonderful priest, kevin o'brien. that does it for me this evening and our live coverage of pope francis celebrating mass in madison square garden in new york city. it's been an honor to work with brian and the others. by the way, here comes the pope. i'm going to hold off my pope. here we watch the motorcycle escort coming up madison avenue, i believe, on the east side of new york. it's a great place to walk late at night, by the way. and the pope comes to new york, a cultural phenomenon in itself
exemplified by the over-the-top, wonderful performance by the cardinal. we don't see the fiat yet. but you'll notice it when it does come by because it's not like these black mariahs that everybody else is driving. there it is. there we got it. here we got it. and he usually waves. you can see him in the car. tles. the pope waving out the window, out the window. so he's saying good night to us as we go off our broadcast. join me tomorrow morning. i'll be here in philadelphia right at this spot very early tomorrow. 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. eastern when we'll be live in maybe the great city of philadelphia -- well, the greatest city, i should say. for full coverage of the pontiff's events. by the way, philadelphia was the reason he came. stay tuned right now. our coverage continues now on "all in" with chris hayes. tonight with alex wagner in for chris. good evening from new york. i'm alex wagner in for chris hayes. right now all eyes are on