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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  October 7, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT

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when nobody is trying to collect people's guns. why would he say he would not bother going to oregon, to roseburg, if he were the president. why would he say he had anything better to do as if anything would be better than this? look, we all know there is p pandering going on everywhere, but letting the right walk all over you and sticking your head up saying now, will you make me president? it is pathetic. right now, it's alex wagner filling in for chris hayes. >> tonight, on "all in". >> things can change in a heartbeat, i know. >> the movement to draft joe biden as the new president, is being called tasteless. then, the donald unveils
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trump, 2.0. >> i'm not going anywhere, he knows. >> ben carson stands his ground. >> from the indications i got, they did not rush the shooter. >> and we have another admission on benghazi. >> i couldn't have been more clear. and the canned hunting of lions in africa. >> got to money, there are people here who will take it. tonight, the explosive new msnbc documentary, "bloodlines". >> i want to be able to tell the story. i want to be able to select them. >> "all in" starts right now. good evening from san francisco, i'm alex wagner in for chris hayes. less than a weeks before the first democratic debate of the 2016 cycle speculation about whether vice president joe biden may still join the race is shifting into overdrive. and hillary clinton is taking
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pre-emptive steps to position herself against her opponent. again, she came out against the trade deal just negotiated by the obama administration and now opposed by senator bernie sander s. it is a deal that the president would have no choice but to stand behind. and clinton's position draws a new battle line if he decides to run. according to a new quinnipiac poll, clinton has reasons for concern, while she still leads in florida, ohio and pennsylvania, biden serves a lot better in matchups against the presidential candidate. she barely edges out donald trump. biden managed to beat all three. crushing trump by 14 points. with early november filing deadlines fast approaching, the super pac draft biden is
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releasing a deal to voters regarding his tragic story. >> i got a phone call, my wife and three children were christmas shopping. the tractor-trailer broadsided them and killed my wife and killed my daughter. and they were not sure that my sons would live. incredible bond i have with my children is a gift i'm not sure, i would have had. had i not been through what i went through. but by focusing on my sons i found my redemption. >> the ad comes just a day after a political report alleging that biden himself was the force for a "the new york times" column about his son beau's dying wish that he run for president. the implication that biden was using his son's death at the age of 46 from brain cancer for
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political office. while his campaign wouldn't deny it was a force, they called the report both categorically defenseless. thank you for joining us. let's get to the act, david axelrod, president obama's senior strategist from days of yore has called the ad in a tweet, tasteless, powerful but exploitive. i guess when you read the assessment what was your thought? >> well, i have the utmost respect for david axelrod. i worked for both for sometime and would never approve something that was problematic. i read the ad, they said it was powerful and one of the most compelling in american politics. >> well, let's talk about the issue of whether or not it is problematic or not. this is coming after a day that
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it sort of speeds the narrative that perhaps joe biden is more calculating politically than the country thinks especially when it regards his bid for president. do you worry that this ad diminishes or furthers it in any way? >> not at all. i believe that beau thought his father would make an incredible president. he was there in 2000 and 2007 when he ran. so no, i don't think it is true. what i'm thinking about right now is the private conversation that the vice president and beau had. i know it was a private conversation. that report left a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth. >> so it left a bad taste in your mouth, but you're not worried about the line of argument? >> no, i'm not worried about the conversation at all. i think the conversation should be private. and that should be private. >> well, i have to ask, there is a question of whether joe biden's decision to run is going
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to be imminent. i wonder as you see this is there a date he actually has to announce he will run. mike halpern suggests he might wait. the new hampshire primaries, when he would decide to throw his hat in the ring. do you think it would be possible? >> i think his decision is his to make. what we see with joe biden we have incredible amount of support across the country, over 220,000 people who signed a petition, draft joe biden.com. there is a powerful ad that tells a story that not a lot of folks know about joe biden. his tragedies and the difficulties he faced early in his political career and how because of that he became the person that he is today with an enormous amount of empathy for people who have troubles of any kind. that is really what we're trying to get to with this. >> but the name of your group is draft biden.
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i wonder for the 220,000 people who signed up, do they care when he will actually run? i mean, is there a point where this effort of yours will cease to exist? will it continue through the prima primaries? >> we're ready when he is ready and will be here when he makes the final decision? >> so that would be a no? >> i'm telling you we're ready when he is ready and will organize and do the work when he is ready to do it. he will have a smooth path with us when he is ready. >> thank you. over the past few days joe biden has had a taste of the heightened scrutiny that comes with running for president. and if he decides to make it official it will probably get a lot worse. new york magazine reported that hillary clinton's campaign is already compiling a research file on joe biden, from the raid that killed osama bin laden and
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his role in the anita hill saga of the early '90s. according to the report that effort is being led by a pro-clinton super pac. and the founder, david brock, joins me now. david, thank you for joining us live and in person here in san francisco. >> it's great to be here. >> what about the new york magazine report? are you compiling a pile of opposition research on joe biden? >> look, this is an anonymous report. i don't want to really sit here. i don't want to sit here and talk about internal strategies, you can understand that. the thing i really don't like are democratic strategists who go out into the media and reveal what they're doing. i don't want to do that. >> when you read the politico story, did you think this was damaging, that perhaps there was political calculation regarding beau biden and his bid for the
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presidency? >> so the truth is, all politicians calculate. that is just the truth. >> so it's fair game? >> i think everything is fair game. we have a small democratic process going on, there is a primary going on right now and if the vice president chooses to get in that will be a significant challenge. we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. he is not really a candidate. >> did you know anything about the political report coming out? >> no, i did not. >> there was no connection there? >> no, no, no. >> when we talk about everything in politics is fair game or calculation is part of the process, what is your thinking about hillary clinton coming out against the partnership today, given the fact that she has called it the gold standard and made comments back to 2010 seemingly in support of the trade deal. do you think today represents a turning of a corner? do you think it is in line with what she has proposed she is as a candidate? >> i do, i think as the campaign goes on, there are going to be some issues where maybe she had
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not taken a stand before and maybe she even comes out and says something that is in disagreement with what she said a few years ago. that is all going to be possible in a campaign, sure. so she evaluated the issue and took her time. it will show her to be what i believe is the progressive champion in the race. >> the rnc had not surprisingly at all a response to the hillary clinton remarks. they write, despite helping negotiate the trans-pacific trade deal, hillary clinton reversed her position after admitting she had not even read the final agreement. hillary clinton's painful waffling has been a study in consistency and precisely why the majority of americans don't trust her. politic politic political expediency seems to be
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an issue. >> look, she has a progressive record that goes back decades as you know as a passionate advocate for strong families and strong america. she has evaluated the situation, come out, now is a candidate. when you're in the administration you follow what the president wants. >> sure, but maybe upwards of 40, 45 comments and support of the ttp, you don't think that is an issue? >> no, that is what she will do as the presidential candidate and the president, hopefully. >> how much do you think bernie sanders is in her rear-view mirror on that issue? >> i think there is a myth that hillary clinton is a johnny come lately to progressive ideas. people can go way back to her history, to children's defense fund, rural aid clinics, and
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then they can go much more recently to the campaign where she talked about regulating wall street. the idea that she is a johnny come lately and is responding to the elizabeth warren wing or the bernie sander's wing, i don't really buy that at all. >> david, you have done a primo job of rebutting the points about hillary clinton, i guess i wonder, where do you think she is vulnerable? >> well, she said the other day she is a reserved person. and probably acknowledges she is not barack obama, not bill clinton, she is hillary clinton. being reversed maybe is not always the best trait in a president. but she has a lot more going for her substantively she beats the rest. look at the program she rolled out. it's difficult to get through the clutter of e-mail
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controversy and everything else. but that, i think we're turning the page on because it's kevin mccarthy. people will see that. look at her actual plans, they really detailed and responded to families, children, to america's needs right now. >> we'll be talking more about kevin mccarthy. david brock, thank you very much. still ahead, how they pushed to dismantle the committee. plus, ben carson wouldn't back down from his controversial reaction to the oregon shootings encouraging people to rush at gunmen. and later, we'll have a preview of msnbc's new documentary on the practice of breeding lions with the explicit purpose of hunting them. those stories and more. dotcom . and us, we'll be right there with you, helping with the questions you need answered to get your brand new business started. we're legalzoom and we've already partnered with over a million new business owners to do just that.
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it took joel silverman years to become a master dog trainer. but only a few commands to master depositing checks at chase atms. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. today, hillary clinton came to the defense of kevin mccarthy, yes, you heard that
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right. well, this kevin mccarthy the majority leader is hoping to replace john boehner as speaker, this kevin mccarthy, he happens to have the twitter handle @kevinmccarthy. >> why can't you speak a coherent spot? mccarthy is a daycaork, and the kept falling apart. and it wouldn't stop. >> ever since last week when congressman kevin mccarthy seemed to finally admit that the republican-led benghazi committee is just a political operation to damage hillary clinton, iowa's kevin mccarthy has been the mistaken target of twitter assaults by those enraged by the majority leader. >> so instead of focusing on the american tragedy they said they focused on they're spending our american taxpayer dollars to play on electoral politics. i get it, it's gross. but it's not my fault, it's the
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house republican. >> along with the video, he tweeted sorry about the mean tweets you have been getting. been there. coming up, i'll speak with the democratic congressman who voted today to expand the benghazi committee. that is next. e. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ] [laughs] no way! i have no financial experience at all. that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. i was out for a bike ride. i didn't think i'd have a heart attack. but i did. i'm mike, and i'm very much alive. now my doctor recommends a bayer aspirin regimen to help prevent another heart attack. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. when you think aarp, then you don't know "aarp." life reimagined gives you tools and support to get the career you'll love. find more real possibilities at aarp.org/possibilities.
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if there is one thing the house gop has been able to accomplish it has been creating special committees to conduct investigations that are not political in any way. today they created another one to investigate planned parenthood even though there have already been three house panels on planned parenthood since the month of july. special committees are what
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republicans do best. in fact, last week you will recall the house majority leader kevin mccarthy called the benghazi situation as unbeatable. >> we put together a benghazi special committee. a select committee. what are her numbers today? her numbers are dropping, why? because she is not trustworthy. >> it was that candid admission that led to the latest calls including one from "the new york times" to disband the select committee on benghazi. kevin mccarthy, the man who wants to be the next speaker of the house insisted again today that the benghazi committee is not political. >> let's be very clear. benghazi is not political. it was created for one purpose and one purpose only. to find the truth on behalf of the families of the four dead americans. period. i have been very clear about this. i couldn't have been more clear in my description of what is going forward, i have stated
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that. there is only one reason the committee was created, period. >> today, democrats pushed a vote to dismantle the benghazi committee but republicans defeated the attempt essentially voting for its continuation. >> nobody on either side of the house up there in the chamber should have voted not to dismantle the benghazi committee. >> the core republican goal is to use taxpayer funds and i want to emphasize that. taxpayer funds to damage secretary clinton's bid for president. >> the democrat behind the motion to disband the committee joins me now, congresswoman louise lawter of new york, thank you for joining us. >> glad to be here. >> can you tell us what happened in your effort to disband the benghazi committee? >> well, the fact there have been nine benghazi committees,
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one in the state department, five of them in the house all of them saying we found nothing, including two in the house conducted by the intelligence and armed service committee led by three remarkable republicans who said there is nothing there. but they won't take yes for an answer. they will keep at it and start up something else. because they believe that they would do a good job in hurting a presidential candidate. none of us were elected to do that. using funds that we get from the taxpayers of the united states to run congress at $4 billion a year, this one committee, benghazi committee has spent $4.6 million. 17 a month that was longer than any investigation, such as the assassination of president kennedy, d-day, or pearl harbor. can you imagine that? they came up with absolutely nothing. >> well, to that point, the war
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on commission -- >> major, major commissions, that is uncovering some truths that were very, very important to the country. not that benghazi is not. but much has already been discovered about benghazi. >> it's all been discovered. it's all been discovered. there is nothing there. $4.6 million has been spent. why wouldn't they -- >> my question to you is -- well, no, i'm wondering if ow-- within the halls of congress, there is private consternation that there is any sense that this has not revealed truths and privately do republicans acknowledge this? >> i believe they do. i have known some of them for quite a long while. i know that they are sensible persons but they go along with this party line.
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i believe they think they're winning, that they're successful. planned parenthood is what really astonishes me. they grill cecile richards for five hours, over always over, everything they said about planned parenthood is dead wrong. 1.5 million american women have gone to planned parenthood for screenings, and they want to take it away. and they seem to be so intent on taking away health care on people. all of those votes do away with aca, as kevin mccarthy says, i don't think it's trustable. >> congresswoman louise slaughter, reminding us of the word of the hour. unpassable. >> don't ever forget it, joining me now, jeff macintosh.
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jeff, another committee that we can sink our teeth into. what is your reaction to this latest idea of republicans. >> kevin mccarthy only said what we all already knew, that the benghazi committee was a sham committee, politically motivated. set up to tear down hillary clinton. that was the only reason. the idea that you would spend taxpayer dollars to attack one woman's poll numbers is despicable. the idea you would spend taxpayer money regarding women and access to health care, hillary clinton is a tough woman with an amazing record to stand on. and she is running a campaign that i think will be just fine as she makes her case for why she ought to be president especially why all the republicans can't seem to get it together to say anything
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sensical, whether in the house or the republican field. the women need these services, and they need them more than republicans need to score cheap political points. i just find it really disturbing that these are people who ask for your votes and then when they get to elected office turn around and do that with it. >> well, i think what we're seeing is the governing agenda for the republican congress, which is don't actually legislate, but establish select committees. instead of actually doing the hard work of government it's basically all about committees. at the don't actually believe in governing, this is why they're going through an existential crisis right now. this is why you get the bobby jindal blaming abortion on single moms. and the rush of attackers instead of dealing with gun laws. they don't believe that government can actually solve any problems. they don't actually think that government works.
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so they campaign on nonsense but then when they get elected they don't know what to do with the levers of power. they don't believe they're there to make life better for american families so they just keep campaigning and politicking. and at some point you have to be a grown-up and actually governor people are going to stop voting for you. their own party is turning on themselves, both in the republican presidential field and in the halls of congress we are seeing huge factions of the republican party. and it's because they don't know how to get anything done and it's becoming real obvious to anyone. >> well, jess, how prevalent do you think that women's rights will be in the campaign? we know that the plan expires for the governor in december. this is certainly an issue through the end of the year. does it bleed into the end of 2016? >> look if you had asked me in
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2008 how big of a deal i thought reproductive rights would be in the presidential 2016 race. i would have said very small. but then the tea party took over and after they won in the wave of 2010 all of these guys came in and we started hearing about forcible rape and defunding planned parenthood. we started hearing about presidential candidates who do not favor abortion exemptions for things like the life of the women involved. these guys are so extreme. they have woken up a generation of women who thought that their mothers had put these rights to bed. who thought that these debates were long settled. clearly they're not. and obviously women all over the country are incredibly fired up about this. i think you will see a huge turnout among women in 2016, especially young single women. >> jess, let this be the moment where the country calls for a
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select committee to investigate the committees. jess, always good to see you, thanks for your time. >> thanks. coming up, presidential candidate donald trump's latest surprise move. he is trying to act like a legitimate presidential candidate. i will explain what that means just ahead. >> thank you everybody. you don't have to be a couch potato, you can be a train potato! and let them watch all the shows they love, inside the ride that you really kind of hate. introducing the all in one plan. only from directv and at&t.
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him water bottles. saying since you're always sweating we thought you could use some water. despite the juvenile stunt, it appears trump is putting on his big boy pants. he is plotting his second act which involves a trip to a more traditional campaign. that means deepening his political organization beyond just the early states, preparing new platforms and notably putting together and getting ready to run his new political ads at a cost of up to $20 million. at an iowa campaign rally trump explained his decision not to run ads until now. >> if you're covered a lot the last thing you want to do now is see trump is covered all over the programs and then we put an ad in, right? who the hell wants to see a trump ad, you od, i can't have that. >> in an effort to close the gap with female voters he reportedly plans to deploy his wife melania and his daughter, ivanka, for
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highlighting his plans for health care issues. but it's not all grown-up. at the headquarters, they say there is a wall of shame featuring downcast photos of rick walker, and rick perry, who dropped out of the race. he vowed he would not join them on the sidelines, no matter what happens. we're going to the convention, added his campaign manager. adding there is nobody who can get trump out of the race. they come into this iworld ugly and messy.
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you've got to be prepared to sit at the edge of your seat and be ready to get up. there's no "deep couch sitting." definitely not good for my back. this is the part i really don't like right here. (doorbell) what's that? a package! it's a swiffer wetjet. it almost feels like it's moving itself. this is kind of fun. that comes from my floor? eww! this is deep couch sitting. [jerry bell iii] deep couch sitting! (patrick 2) pretty great.ke to be the boss of you? (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done?
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(patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want- without having to ask anyone. who better to be the boss of you... (patrick 1)than me. i mean, you...us. (vo) go national. go like a pro. ben carson is doubling down after suggesting he might be able to stop a mass shooting after the tragedy that unfolded in oregon last week. carson came under intense criticism after his response, when asked what he would do if somebody pointed a gun at him
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and asked -- and asked his religion as the oregon shooter was said to have done before he shot some of his victims. >> not only would i not cooperate with him, i would not just stand there and let him shoot me. i would say hey, guys, everybody attack him, he may shoot me but he can't get us all. >> asked to defend the comments, implying the victims somehow got themselves killed, this is his answer. >> the shooter can only shoot one person at a time. he cannot shoot a whole group of people. so the idea is overwhelm him so that not everybody gets killed. if you know somebody is going to kill you and they're going to systematically going to kill you one by one, why would you let them shoot you? >> putting aside the fact that the department of homeland security strongly recommends
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people don't run a shooter unless they have no other alternatives. asked this morning if he was familiar with chris mintz, the heroic man who tried to stop the shooter and as a result was shot multiple times. joining me, sam peter, host of "the majority report." matt, let me start with you. of all the things one can say about this moment for ben carson, it doesn't seem that he understands how insensitive his suggestion was to many, many people. >> i think it's a basic rule of politics, don't blame the victims when they're still being buried. it's just kind of a comportment issue. ben carson we know has a kind of tin ear, or part of his selling proposition if you can call it that is he is not going to speak like a normal politician. that means he will be unpolished
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at times and say things that are directly outrageous. i think this is a perfect opportunity for him to be reminded if he is going to run for president you need to talk about different national events and you can have different opinions but have basic empathy. and don't even by association or direct association blame people for dying. >> well, right. and then sam, there is the question of whether there is actually a policy prescription that ben carson is making which is rush the shooter, defend yourself, throw yourself in the line of fire. if that was the policy one can imagine post-9/11, what is the u.s. government had said, oh, just follow the lead of the people who went down over shanksville, pennsylvania, just rush to the terrorists and throw yourself in the line of fire.
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>> well, frankly we've seen so far in this republican race that policy prescriptions are not really necessary. i mean, bravado seems to work. frankly i'm not convinced that ben carson, it's a gaffe, in his mind. and frankly, i am not convinced it won't help him in the republican primary. look, ben carson is not saying anything that either a republican opponent has either implied or said directly. he is simply now getting attention because he is one of the top contenders in the republican primary. i mean, ben carson may need to learn a lot of things about a lot of things, in fact i think he does. i am not convinced he is not quite calculating in talking this way and i'm not convinced he won't get rewarded for it in the republican primary. >> matt, do you think he gets rewarded?
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he made other controversial comments and in fact he suggested it was inappropriate for president obama to visit with the victims. that has gotten some play. let's listen to the sound. >> when comments like republican candidate ben carson condemning president obama's decision to visit and console the families in roseburg in a private meeting. that somehow he would wait for the next one. it's stunning. i can't imagine a more callous, heartless remark than that of dr. carson who would wait until the next one. >> matt, what is the fallout from that? >> i would say there is probably going to be none. ben carson's history as a national political figure began with him criticizing president obama at a prayer breakfast. but also saying a bunch of outrageous statements he makes.
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not seeing to ah the analogies, compares gay marriage to beastiality. he is a strong anti-media and anti-political correctness vibe on the republican side i don't think comments like this hurt him. and let's give one more bit of lip service to him. the first offender is you as a person. that is a thing to say at various points, maybe to use as your own comportment, to do it while we're still burying people and imply that it is their fault, i think that is where the problem is. >> so sam, you think he effectively gets rewarded that this is the next iteration that a bad guy with the gun, and you with a gun. >> when you talk about the
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relationship between the gun and the dead people, they don't want to bring up the fact that on a policy level they are -- have no answer to these questions. none. absolutely zero. every answer they have has to deal with either their fantasies that they would be the hero of the day, or that the second amendment in some way makes it impossible to in any way make it inconvenient for people to get a gun regardless of what their disposition is. regardless of what they want to do with it. they make it impossible for gun manufacturers to have any sense of liability for the way their product is used. so they want to talk about other things. and the thing that comes easy to them and the thing that is consistent with the sense of bravado that they get rewarded with, in the republican party is that i would just take them out if i was the terminator, or whomever it is, whatever his fantasy is, it's shared by a lot of people in the republican
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party. >> so matt, this narrative, with the crop of candidates, that the bravado, the lack of politic specifics, and many other things, where is this group of candidates going into the next year? it's ben carson and donald trump -- and the theory of the party should they get the white house? >> i think donald trump has been more democrat-friendly when it comes to second amendment issues over the years. basically now the republican field and for reasons that i symphoste sympathize with greatly, the prescription also wouldn't work. expanding universal background checks to a level that people want, you know, these mass shootings are not usually conducted by people who can't pass a background check. they -- actually most of them
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can. so there are policy disagreements and they're real. and they don't necessarily come from pure clownishness. so i imagine there will be a robust -- >> do you think that there is a legitimate policy answer that is being cooked up on the right side of the aisle? because thus far, mostly they know it's not going to work -- >> sometimes you're standing up for history yelling stop, right? that is the national review lines for a long time. right now you see in the wake of things usually proposals that people who take the second amendment seriously as an individual right will point out either violate that term or practically, they're not very helpful. the emphasis will be on no right now. there are talking of health issues, and effectively screening anybody who may be involved in this issue. >> thank you. good to see you guys, thanks for
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your time. coming up, the death of a lion struck a chord around the world. tonight, a new documentary on canned hunting. and i'll talk to one of the main subjects of that film. that is ahead. ♪ the beautiful sound of customers making the most of their united flight. power, wi-fi, and streaming entertainment. that's... seize the journey friendly. ♪ we value sticking with things. when something works, people stick with it. more people stick with humana medicare advantage. because we stick with them.
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for a week this summer, the world was galvanized by the killing of a lion named cecil, by a big game hunter. authorities said a tent disfrom minnesota paid some $50,000 to lure it out of hiding. the news put him squarely in the spotlight. the practice, which differs widely from country to country is widely subsidized by americans and often done in the name of so-called conservation. more on the big world of game trophy hunting in south africa where lions are bred and killed for sport, often by way of a practice known as canned hunting. the documentary follows one american hunter as he quite easily pays for a big game hunt
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in south africa and brings viewers into the shocking world of legal lion breeding. i'll talk to an environmental journalist and lead consultant on lions, who spent decades studying the canned hunting. doing to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use.
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check us out today to see how you can become one of them. legalzoom. legal help is here. >> see what this one says. >> well, i went on line and took a look at a number of different websites. >> hif you've got the money.
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>> there are people here who will take it. >> i have a limited amount of time that i will have free. >> okay. >> came back with 14 animals. pictures of 14 animals. 13 of them were males and one was a female. about $16,000 for young blonde mane male, on up to 48,000 u.s. dollars for one of the big black mane males. >> there are numbers one to 14. and the expense. >> okay. i want that one. send off an e-mail. let me have that one. >> tonight, blood lions, an
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expose on big game legal hunting in south africa begins right here. joining me to discuss the very controversial world of trophy hunting is a safari operator and environmental journalist and lead consultant on the film. ian, thank you for joining us. this is a devastating portrait of what is taking place in south africa and for people who don't understand the legal breeding to canned hunting, tell us why it is problematic. >> well, we have a situation where we have approximately 200 facilities and these are owned by farmers and businessmen. they're not lion ecologists, they're not conservationists, and they're breeding lion extensively in agricultural-type conditions for a whole wide variety of reasons. canned hunting grabs the headlines, but there are a
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number of reasons, the lion being shipped to asia to be used. as the volunteer scam where young students are lured to come and work on these farms. and a whole range of these revenue streams, and they're all claiming to be for conservation purposes, which of course is completely wrong. >> so do you reject the argument entirely that big game trophy hunting can support conservationism? or is the problem more directly isolated in south africa? >> well, i think we need to distinguish between the traditional form of hunting which takes place in large landscapes. there are particular areas across africa. and to hat is a debate which is legitimate in some circles, as
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to whether the land management mak makes an agreement. that is a situation with canned hunting, which is a situation that has been carried out by farmers and businessmen. and there is absolutely no conservation value whatsoever in the canned hunting industry. there is not a single lion specialist that works with any of these operators that works with any of these breeders or hunters. and they will all tell you the lion bred in captivity has no genetic value, it's been bred in captivity, it has lost its fear of humans and that means it's a danger to us. so no conservation value what of so. but for fair chance in the wide protected areas, that is a legitimate debate. >> and ian, is the problem --
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was this problematic hunting done in south africa of? is it isolated to that part of the continent or is it more widespread? >> well, it's pretty much particular to south africa. there are possibilities that it is taking place or has taken place in one or two countries bordering south africa, for example, zimbabwe, for example, but if it has it will be at a very low key level. but what is interesting is that it happens here in united states and texas, there are many ranches in texas which are breeding wild animals to be killed under similar circumstances. so it is taking place in this country. >> lions are such majestic creatures, this documentary is really exposing a sin that is taking place. thank you, ian, for your time. and as a reminder the premiere,
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documentary bloodlines is coming up in just over an hour. that is it for this evening, the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening. >> good evening, i'm jealous, alex, that you are in san francisco, excellent show. first thing with us this hour, a moment of personal privilege here. my mom emigrated to this country from canada. nothing against canada, per se. but she found work here that she couldn't find at home. a lot more opportunity that she had here where she grew up. she also met my dad here and he turned out to be a pretty good catch. but my mom was a canadian citizen. and at the time the way policy worked on that issue she had no real option

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