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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  October 8, 2015 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT

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strategy to win. >> that would be nice. i think that's step two or three or four on this 12-step program. always a pleasure. thanks for coming on. >> we will be back tomorrow because if it is friday it is more mtp daily. erica hill picks up our coverage. >> right now on msnbc, breaking news, a house divided. kevin mccarthy, the front runner to lead house republicans pulls out of the race for speaker. hero attacked. one of the men who helped stop a terror attack on a paris train is fighting for his life after being stabbed. and the controversial tweet from robert murdoch about ben carson and president obama. we begin with that breaking news in congress. house majority leader kevin mccarthy dropping out of the race to replace john boehner as
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speaker. >> i think there is something to be said for us to unite we probably need a fresh face. i will stay on as majority leader. the one thing i found in talking to everybody, if we are going to unite and be strong we need a new face to help do that. >> that statement, of course, a remarkable turn around from hours earlier. >>. >> good morning. >> according to other members of the house no one saw this coming. >> i think it's pretty obvious that all members of the delegation of the conference were shocked. >> i think a lot of people were shocked. >> i was absolutely stunned, surprised and shocked that this happened. our conference will have to do a lot of soul searching. >> that is congressman jason
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chaffetz. it is unclear if either of them could get the 218 votes needed to be elected frmpt now current speaker john boehner says he will stay on until they can find a replacement. the washington post reports boehner is pushing congressman paul ryan to run. nbc news capitol hill correspondent is with us now. luke, you saw this all play out first-hand throughout the day. we know paul ryan has cancelled his fundraisers for the next 48 hours. what is that telling you? what are you hearing? >> it means he is getting serious consideration to john boehner's pushing that he run for speaker. i interviewed kevin mccarthy as he walked the house floor right behind me. i said do you think ryan will run he said i hope so. interestingly enough paul ryan is right now just around the
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corner from me in the chairman of the ways and means room office pondering his future. when he was on the house floor voting earlier a lot of members made sure to go to him and say give this a go. all indications that we are getting from paul ryan is that this is not the job he wants. he has turned this down before. he has young children. his wife is said to not be too thrilled. if he were to take this job it ends his political future because he runs 92into the problems of a conservative block of the house gop conference that does not want to compromise with the stadministration. you have to cut deals to fund the government and extend debt limit. those things would muddy up paul ryan with any future of possibly running for president. it remains to be seen whether or not he will listen to boehner.
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i spoke to an aid close to paul ryan that said this is a hard no. he is not expected to take this job. >> luke, you know boehner pretty well. >> i think john boehner was looking forward to being on jimmy fallon tonight in that building where you are. he no longer can do that. i think boehner is taking a step back and realizing how divided this conference is. mccarthy would have gotten over 200 republican votes to be speaker but getting the 218 on the house floor on date of october 29 they weren't there. he realized the conservative back lash against him would be so large y. think boehner has to contemplate. he might have to stay on as speaker. he doesn't have to go back to the floor. if they can't agree on somebody he might do the tough stuff of funding the government. that is something he doesn't
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want to do. he would rather be in florida. >> or joining jimmy fallon. >> thank you. joining us now is congress woman walters, republican of california. as i understand it you did speak with majority leader eth er mcc >> i had a brief conversation with him right after our conference ended. everybody was in shock. there was a long line of people who wanted to speak with him. i said to kevin how grateful i am to serve with him, how i thought he would have made a great speaker and how disappointed i am that he stepped aside. >> moving forward, of course, you do need a speaker. who do you think would be most effective? >> i am taking a step back. i think obviously paul ryan would be an excellent choice. we are having a conference meeting tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. to discuss moving forward and how we are going to resolve this. as luke mentioned speaker
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boehner had said that he would resign when we elected a new speaker. so if we don't elect a new speaker by october 29 i think you can expect that speak boehner would stay on until that happened. it would be a viable option. i don't know who the candidate would be at this point but i think we as a conference will get through this. we need to make sure that everybody's concerns are met and we need to find a candidate that both sides can agree with. >> what do you think is the biggest hurdle to finding that candidate? >> the biggest hurdle i think in finding the candidate is somebody like a paul ryan willing to step up to the plate and take the job. i mean, being speaker is one of the most difficult jobs i think in this country. you can imagine what tol it takes on a person. we have many talented people in our conference.
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we have to find somebody who is willing to take the position. >> is there a concern over the need for compromise in looking for someone? >> well, everybody has their opinions and everybody has to serve their district to best that they can. and we have a lot of different interests in our conference, but i am absolutely confident we will find somebody who will be able to unite us and bring us together. >> appreciate your time. thanks for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> steve kornacki is here with us in the studio. nice to see you in person. so we heard leader mccarthy saying earlier -- i'm going to read from this. speaking saying conservative members wanted things he quote couldn't deliver. and said i don't know sometimes you have to hit rock bottom. is this rock bottom or could there be further to go? >> the fact that it is kevin mccarthy who ended up being
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unacceptable to the right side of the republican conference, that is very telling because kevin mccarthy recruited campaigned for, raised money for so many of these members who are revolting against him and against leadership. and the whole idea when john boehner stepped aside when it looked like kevin mccarthy was going to take over the idea was kevin mccarthy has personal relationships and trust from the members. he can go to the difficult places that john boehner had to go on the debt ceiling and this time they will give him more room because they trust him. three weeks later they won't let him be speaker. if kevin mccarthy is not good enough and if paul ryan says no to this and it sounds like paul ryan doesn't want this then it is hard to see anybody who could satisfy the demands of the house freedom caucus, the far right of
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the republican caucus and be satisfying to the establishment at the same time. what luke says starts to come into play. if it there is really nobody to get to 247 john boehner stays on for another year. >> let's look at what that -- the picture that that paints for the american public. if we can't get a speaker at this point, is anything getting done in washington or could it help? >> ironically if john boehner has said i am forced to stay on this job that i don't want tobe on you heard him in this retirement tour speaking his mind a little bit more. the whole idea here is that any republican speaker ultimately has to cut the deal with the white house to keep the government open and keep from defaulting on the debt. maybe boehner if he is forced back into this job on a temporary emergency thing with nothing to worry about after that maybe he is more willing to cut the deals and more willing to put the bills on the floor
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even as the 25, 30, 35 republicans scream and rely on democratic votes to get them through. that is one way it could play out. >> some people maybe hope frg that. when it comes to the american public a lot are not happy with leaders in washington. 72% of gop primary voters say they are not satisfied with the current leadership in congress. a lot of those folks are the same people lining up for political outsiders like donald trump. let's listen to what he had to say. >> kevin mccarthy is out. you know that, right? [ cheers and applause ] and they are giving me a lot of credit for that because i said you need somebody very, very tough and very smart. smart goes with tough. i know tough people that are not smart. that's the worst. you have to be smart. >> does this situation strengthen the campaigns and the message of people like donald
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trump, ben carson, carly fiorina. >> this has to do with barack obama getting elected in the first place in 2008. that was a traumatic event for the conservative amount moo which was not only angry at barack obama, they felt that republicans in the bush era had betrayed conservatism and spent too much money and stretched resources in ways they shouldn't have. they have given conservatism a bad name. so the lesson they took was not just fight barack obama. the lesson they took was fight the republican establishment because the republican establishment if we get it power will sell us out. they have been in that mode now for the entire obama presidency and it doesn't seem to be waning at all. >> nice to see you.
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still ahead, the hero who helped stop a terror attack on a french train is stabbed in california. we will give you the details on what happened. and hillary clinton unveils a new plan to reform wall street days after coming out against a major trade deal and the keystone pipeline. her strategy. the gun control debate. a new push from democrats one day before president obama travels to oregon, the scene of the latest mass shooting. >> this should be so easy. the american public overwhelming supports background record checks. gun owners like me overwhelmingly support background record checks. no matter where they are. the microsoft cloud gives our team the power to instantly deliver critical information to people, whenever they need it. here at accuweather, we get up to 10 billion data requests every day.
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night club in sacramento, california. >> he is currently being treated for what appears to be nonlife-threatening but significant injuries. it is believed mr. stone was in the area with a group of friends when a physical altercation led to him being stabbed. immediately after the assault the suspects fled the scene. >> police are looking for two men who took off in a dark colored toyota camry. air force secretary posted on her facebook page saying his injuries are serious but he is in stable condition. please keep him and family in your thoughts and prayers. stone suffered significant injuries to his neck and hand after wrestling the would-be terrorists to the ground. joining me now is jacob ras
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cone. >> it happened outside of a bar in sacramento and that stone was one of a group of people and there is surveillance video from a store that appears to show this brawl. you are going to see six or seven people. we are told that it started as an argument, that alcohol was somehow involved. it escalated to a fight. you can see the pushing, the shoving, the punches thrown and then the fight stops when a police cruiser comes and everybody else scatters. we are told stone was the only person who was injured, stabbed, we are told four times in the chest. what a different scene than a month ago when stone was welcomed home to sacramento as a hero after everybody believes he helped thwart what might have been a terror plot. he, of course, tackled that would-be terror suspect and held him in a choke hold and was stabbed them. he is undergoing surgery. we are told that went well.
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he is now in stable condition recovering from another knife wound, this time in his hometown. >> jacob, thank you. one week after the deadly mass shooting at an oregon college lawmakers have calling for increased gun control. we will tell you about their latest push. hillary clinton unveils her plans for a massive wall street reform today. is she distancing herself even further from president obama? here to volunteer to help those in need. when a twinge of back pain surprises him. morning starts in high spirits but there's a growing pain in his lower back. as lines grow longer, his pain continues to linger. but after a long day of helping others, he gets some helpful advice. just two aleve have the strength to keep back pain away all day. today, jason chose aleve. aleve, all day strong. and try aleve pm, now with an easy open cap. with the skin of then i will live the life of now
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tomorrow president obama will visit oregon. this morning senate democrats demanded congress strengthen gun laws calling for gun trafficking to be a federal crime and better background checks. >> they want innocent lives not to be lost because of criminals and mentally ill who can get access to weapons. it's insane that we cannot do common sense gun reform. >> demand action from this congress which for too long has been complacent. >>. >> people magazine is calling on readers to act printing contact information for all 535 members of congress and urging americans to voice their opinions on gun violence. senator chris murphy has fought
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for tougher laws. he joins us from washington. thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. >> you were in the group of senate democrats watching closely what is happening in the house. as we look back, though, nothing has really worked in the nearly three years since sandy hook. why do you believe that today you have a better chance of getting something passed? >> it did take ten years for the brady handgun bill to be signed into law. i think we do understand that sometimes this doesn't happen immediately. the nra built up their political infrastructure. we have work to build up a national grass roots political movement around anti-gun violence initiatives that we announced. we understand the chances of getting a successful vote on background checks with republicans in charge of house
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and senate are probably slim. that doesn't mean we are going to give up. the families in newtown conne connecticut are not going to give up. we are going to enlist americans who want to make gun trafficking illegal. we are not going away. >> in today's "washington post" wrote about it is now time to look at manufacturers to plaic smart guns and calling to put an i dirks stamp on every bullet. is this a more viable option to go after the gun manufacturers? >> so i think we have to take every avenue that is available to us. i'm hopeful that the president will talk about some executive actions like the one that e.j. outlined that he can do without congress. there is also the ability to try to make sure that actors that look like commercial sellers,
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people selling frequently online or at gun shows are considered sellers subject to background check requirements. there are other things the president can do through executive action. in congress we have to let republicans know that you just can't stay out of step with 90% of americans and continue to get sent back. democracy doesn't allow that. you are starting to see republicans at least in the senate realize they can't be silent in the face of the mass murders. >> you say you not giving up and the families are not giving up as you mentioned. while there is always a great deal of interest after a terrible tragedy like in oregon it seems that interest and support starts to wane. i know you say it took ten years for the brady hand gun bill. how long will it take for you to achieve measures you working towards? >> i hope it isn't ten years. we have to understand that until
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we have new leadership in the house and the senate we are likely not going a have a successful vote on the background checks bill. we announced we are going to the people and going to ask them to be a part of this effort. ultimately we will get this done. i have a 7 year old that went to first grade today. every parent out there has to understand that if kids in a small town like newtown aren't safe, if people livin in a quiet town in oregon aren't safe. you are going to see voters asking questions about whether a member of congress is going to support background checks. you will see members of congress lose who are running for office. that might take a cycle or two to get a congress that will support the measures. it is going to happen. that is how democracy works. this place can't stay out of step with 90% of americans.
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>> thanks a lot. >> i want to bring in e.j. from the "washington post." we mentioned your piece. what did you think of senator murphy's response some. >> thank you for that and i appreciated senator murphy's response. i agree with him that when you are pushing for legislation a lot of times important legislation lost before it won. medicare was beaten before it passed. you can say that of a lot of legislation. but in the meantime there are a number of things we can do. i think president obama has taken some steps through executive action but i think he should be willing to be more aggressive. he has to match that anger which i appreciated after this latest awful killing and say where else can i go. i think holding gun manufacturers accountable and if you want this money 40% of the
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revenues from federal government or local governments then take steps to microstamp guns and bullets to cooperate in identifying dealers who disproportionately sell guns to people who end up using them in crime. these are some steps we can take. i think on the completely nonpolitical side we need to switch the assumption that a lot of people have out there. you are much less safe having a gun in your house, your family is than having a gun in your house. i think we have to do with guns what we did with smoking and drunk driving and sort of just lay out the facts to americans about accidental shootings and suicides and change the presumptions about guns. >> look how long it takes to get things done in congress. when you talk about changing perception this is a right that people in this country hold very dear as we know.
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so to change that perception more of the line of thinking that you are now talking about, give us your best guess. what is the timeline like on that? >> if you are making an argument about not having a gun in your house you are not talking about whether people have a right to have it or not. people have a right to smoke cigarettes but fewer people smoke today than 30 years ago. i think what you try to do is change people's attitudes towards guns which will create i think more room to legislate. this is not an absolute right when the supreme court upheld a view of the second amendment which i disagree with. within that decision there is plenty of room to legislate. machine guns are against the law. you can say to people who look at this as a right and say it's a right but there are responsibilities attached to that right. it's not an absolute right.
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>> before we let you go you are there in washington watching this drama play out today in the house. weigh in what is your gut at this point? >> i'm not surprised that paul ryan has said no to the job. i cannot think of a promotion fewer people would want than to be speaker of the house. i think the republicans have to decide how much do they want to govern. there is a right wing of that party that seems more interested in making points on behalf of their ideology than in governing. there are other republicans who would like to get things done. they are going to have to work it out or there will have to be some arrangement with democrats to get things done. it is very dangerous because we have deadlines coming up on the budget and the debt ceiling. we can't wait for republicans to sort out their psyche to get the work done. >> a lot of things to keep an eye on. >> coming up, yesterday she
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split with president obama on his major trade deal. today hillary clinton is distancing herself perhaps even further from president obama. we'll tell you how. fireworks on capitol hill as the head of volkswagen gets grilled about the car giant's emission scandal. >> volkswagen lied. >> cheaters never prosper and that is why we are here today. at safelite, we know how busy life can be. these kids were headed to their first dance recital...
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hillary clinton putting more distance between herself and president obama today. the former secretary of state released her plan to reform wall street promising to crack down on risky behavior from the financial sector. clinton directly calls to roll back a major obama administration concession to wall street one day after she said she didn't support the president's trans pacific trade
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partnership agreement. >> what i know about it as of today i am not in favor of what i have learned about it. what i know and i don't have the text. we don't have the details. i don't believe it is going to meet the high bar i have set. >> joining me now is political editor. let's run through a few things in this wall street reform plan. hillary clinton said she will impose a risk fee on the largest financial institutions and require large risky firms to reorganize, down size or break apart, prosecute and punish individuals and corporations for financial crimes, strengthen the oversight of the shadow banking system and impose high frequency trading tax. she is not going to win a lot of fans and likely not many votes on wall street with this plan. now we know she is against keystone and came out yesterday against tpp.
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she is almost aligning herself more with bernie sanders. read the tea leaves for me. >> absolutely. this is a move that further puts into words the leftward part of the democratic party. martin o'malley come out with plans. it's true her plan would go further than the obama administration. it is worth noting that she is not calling for things like aggressively breaking up big banks and a line drawn between commercial and investment banking. those are moves that bernie sanders and martin o'malley have been calling for. this move makes sense in this primary process. all of the energy is around the particular issue. bernie sanders made this a central part to take on big banks. he is attracting a lot of the same vote whoors who called for elizabeth warren.
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i'm not sure this plan will convince a lot of fans to move to hillary clinton. there is energy on the left on this topic. when she gets on the debate stage she will say i understand voters are passionate about this. >> you make the case that does make since in this primary season. if we move into the election if she is the nominee does it end up hurting her? >> there is a case to be made that hillary clinton has on issues like tpp that she has changed her positions and moved herself much further to the left specifically on tpp which she previously called the gold standard saying in its current form i can't support it. what the moves will do is acknowledgment of this passion on the left but it also puts her in a different place than vice president joe biden. if he dpets into the race he would be online with obama positions and would be the only
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democrat holding that position. >> thank you. coming up, russian missile strikes against targets in syria today. are they helping to defeat isis or perhaps leading us into another cold war. volkswagen ceo in the hot seat today answering questions about the emissions scandal. could pumpkin pie maybe be perhaps not an option this year? we may have to change things up on the menu. we'll explain.
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official says the russians are leveling stuff. today in brussels defense secretary ash carter said the u.s. is not cooperating russia. >> russia has chose toon double downfelt it remains our hope that russia will see that tethering itself to a sinking ship is a losing strategy. >> at this point what do we know about the missiles that ended up in iran? >> these missiles were fired from russian warships in the caspian sea that travelled at a low altitude and high speed first over iran and then iraq and then syria where they struck some targets primarily moderate rebels fighting on behalf of the u.s. now, four of the missiles crashed in iran said to be in a remote area.
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what is most disconcerning to u.s. military officials is that the russians gave the u.s. no warnings. when it passed through iraq and syria these are areas where u.s. and coalition war planes are flying combat missions every day. that is a very dangerous proposition. some in the defense department are saying it proves our not really reliable weapons and don't have enough reliable missiles to carry on this kind of barrage. but it sounds like they are trying to put the best face on a really bad situation because so far in this recent standoff it's russia, naut u.s. who is calling had shots. >> thanks. we want to bring in former ambassador who served as white house mid east policy adviser. we heard they are trying to put the best face on this at this point. we heard what ash carter had to say.
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he also said this. let's take a quick listen. >> with respect to the new cold war the isolation of russia is a phenomenon that i think russia is going to have to reckon with. this is self-isolating behavior. >> self-isolating but the fact that he called this the cold war. is this the new cold war? >> no. and frankly ash is a good friend of mine. i'm frankly surprised at him to be referring to this. there are clearly real problems for how putin has been acting in europe. no doubt about it. but in syria we have to understand that russia has been the number one ally of the assad regime for decades. the full assad regime is a geostrategic problem for russia because if the sunni majority
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terrorists take over they will continue to funnel terrorism. russia is not to excuse what putin is doing. we have not had a policy towards syria. any of us who follow syria could have known this is what the putin regime was going to do. what is most troublesome to us is how unprepared this administration is from the get go on syrian policy. my dog has a better chance catching its tail than this administration coming up with a coherent policy. >> why is that so difficult. why is it so tough to put together a strategy, a policy, a plan? >> it comes down to the fact that from the very get go the administration pfsh national security council have been under instructions to disengage. they don't want to get involved in syria. they haven't been able to
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effectuate policy. we don't have a strategic goal in syria. the united states has one strategic goal in the region. that's to defeat isis. it's been more of an idelogical campaign against assad. john mccain had it right there has been no leadership to deal with the consequences and no coherent capability on the national security staff to understand the middle east. >> john mccain was on less than an hour ago with chuck todd. let's listen to what he had to say. >> we are trained and have trained thousands of young syrians, sent them into syria and now we are watching them being attacked by russian aircraft and killed and maimed. chuck, that is imoral. it's not only wrong but immorally. >> that is quite the word to leverage the. >> i think we can throw worse words at the administration's
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policy. >> how does this change? >> we have to pull out the people who we have been supporting because they don't want to fight against isis. they want to fight against the assad regime which is why we never really were able to field the number of trained soldiers that we trained for half a billion dollars. they have been misled. they thought they were going in to fight assad. they were told they were going to fight isis. we 92 ed safe havens in order to protect these people from continued syrian attack. that is where the administration should be focusing energy. >> i only have time for a yes and no. is there the appetite for that in this country? >> as long as we know it is important to protect refugees and provide relief operation the american people support what is necessary to do the right thing. >> appreciate your input tonight. >> coming up the president of volkswagen offering up an apology over the company's emission scandal. was it enough to satisfy
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lawmakers on capitol hill. and another apology but this one for rupert murdoch after he suggested president obama isn't a real black president. ben carson weighing in on that, as well. stay with us. ♪ can't afford to let heartburn get in the way?
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. volkswagen's u.s. president under fire on capitol hill. volkswagen did acknowledge last month software on diesel cars
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fooled regulators into believing the vehicles were compliant with emissions regulations. we are talking about 11 million cars world wide including nearly half a million here in the u.s. which were rigged with that device. >> i did not think that something like this was possible at the volkswagen group. we have broken the trust of customers, dealerships, employees as well as public and regulators. we take full responsibility for our actions and we are working with all the relevant authorities in a cooperative way. >> that is happening here in the u.s. while we are learning german police raided volkswagen's headquarters. prosecutors say they are looking for documents and data storage devices that could give information about those involved in the alleged manipulation. give us a sense how did it play out for volkswagen today? >> a lot of people had a bad day
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today on capitol hill. michael horn of volume was certainly one of them. he took a real grilling from members of congress. you could feel the frustration from the members of congress. they wanted answers on a couple of key things that mattered to constituents. what is the company going to do to make those people who bought the cars in the united states whole? volkswagen dealers wanted to find out what volkswagen is going to do for dealers who are stuck with inventory that americans might not want to buy now that they know this cheating software may have been installed to get around emissions testing. michael horne not providing answers saying volkswagen is in a very preliminary stage in the investigation and that the decisions will have to be made down the line and said the people who created this malicious software were likely in germany and he said he had nothing to do with it and didn't know anything about it. >> still a lot to process.
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eviden appreciate the update. the fire storm following rupert murdoch after he tweeted about a, quote, real black president. stay with us. bring us your aching and sleep deprived. bring us those who want to feel well rested. aleve pm. the only one to combine a sleep aid... plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. be a morning person again with aleve pm.
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tand that's what we're doings to chat xfinity.rself, we are challenging ourselves to improve every aspect of your experience. and this includes our commitment to being on time. every time. that's why if we're ever late for an appointment, we'll credit your account $20. it's our promise to you. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. a couple of stories that remind us fall is here in a big way. we are not talking about the saturation of pumpkin spice products. you can order the leaves. we are not talking just any
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the outrage about a tweet from rupert murdoch. last night murdoch tweeted ben and candy carson terrific. what about a real black president who can properly address the racial divide? and much else. hours later he wrote apologies. no offense meant personally find both men charming. joining me now is one charming man who just wrote about murdoch's comments. when you first saw that what was your gut reaction? >> i tweeted it out because i saw it early this morning and re-tweeted the nbc news tweet and wrote i can't even. the idea that anybody would talk about who is really black and who isn't really black i think is offensive. and that it is rupert murdoch, president of news corporation, billionaire and republican would do this i thought sort of ratcheted up the offense.
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>> ben carson has reacted now. let's listen to what he had to say. >> i believe what he was making reference to was the fact that here is a man who was a black president when came in and whose policies have not elevated the black community. rupert murdoch said what he said and apologized because a lot of people took it the wrong way. i think there are so many more important issues to deal with. >> your thoughts on that one? >> there are more important issues to deal with. look forward to ben carson dealing with those. as for the president not doing anything to lift up the black community it is in the line of a lot of people expecting the president to have a fully identified black agenda which is never going to happen. if you look at everything that the obama administration has done and focused on there are many african-americans who have benefitted from what he has
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done. case in point the affordable care act. large majority have benefitted from obamacare. so ben carson has a lot of issues when it comes to race but also when it comes to policy. i look forward to hearing more from him on the policy. >> one thing that stood out to me on the piece you wrote was the notion of a black president and a black person. is that something we should be saying at this point? are you the president of the united states or the black president of the united states? and does that mean you the person who can automatically change the racial divide in the country? >> there are three things going on there. there is no way to be authentically black. there is no one way. there are many different ways to be authentically black. barack obama is the first black president but also the first president who happens to be african-american. to put that pressure on him to solve the racial problems in
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this country when as our former colleague said to me in my piece, to you racism is so systemic and endemic in this country and its history that it will take a lot more than one term of the first black president to change it if that is even possible. it's an impossible task. >> it feels insurmountable maybe to many people. could the one upside be just that, that it could perhaps start a conversation? >> i hope that the conversation that is started is that finally people understand and realize that to say that someone is really black or someone isn't really black or isn't black enough is the charge from african-americans to other african-americans, that's wrong. what you are doing is putting people in boxes and that you are belittling people and offending people all at the same time. >> great to have you with us tonight. and thanks to all of you for
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joining us. stay with us. "hardball" starts right now. the republican right in full mutiny. let's play "hardball"." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. history was made as two political parties came apart facing all out demands by the republican right kevin mccarthy with drew his candidacy for speaker. >> we have been going through this campaign talking to a lot of members. the one thing i have always said to earn this majority we should put this conference first. and i think there is something to be said for us to unite we probably need a fresh face. i

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