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tv   MSNBC Live With Tamron Hall  MSNBC  October 12, 2015 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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benghazi bombshell. the day before the first democratic presidential debate, an investigator on the benghazi committee says he was fired for not targeting hillary clinton. what impact it could have on the debate. plus, what president obama is saying about clinton and her private e-mail server. and, the clock is ticking. some republicans say congressman paul ryan has the next 24 to 48 hours to decide if he'll become the next house speaker. plus this -- >> put your hands behind your back! >> the investigation into why police tazed a city councilman in the same city where san bra bland was found dead in her jail cell. we'll get a live report from texas. good morning, everyone. i'm tamron hall. developing now, the hillary clinton camp is calling it
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explosive, while republicans are issuing vehement denials all following a stunning new allegation about the republican-led benghazi investigation. a former investigator claims the special house benghazi committee became a politically motivated mission, targeting former secretary of state hillary clinton. >> as i stated, hillary clinton has a lot of explaining to do. we, however, do not need to shift resources to hyperfocus on hillary clinton. i honestly didn't believe this investigation didn't start out to go after hillary. i believe it shifted that way. >> he claims he was improperly fired in june because he resisted pressure to target clinton and also for taking leave for several weeks to go on active duty in germany. benghazi committee chair trey gowdy calls his claims a lie. >> well, it's a damn lie and that's not a word that i often use. he was a lousy employee. that was evidenced by the fact
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that he mishandled classified information and he wouldn't do what his supervisors instructed him to do. >> the first time he ever mentioned hillary clinton's name ss the basis for his termination or separation from employment was when he decided to sit down with cnn on friday. >> but his attorney denies he mishandles classified information. meantime, president obama spoke out on "60 minutes kw9 la about the e-mail controversy saying clinton should have held herself to a higher standard. >> i don't think it posed a national security problem. i think it was a mistake that she's acknowledged. i do think that the way it's been ginned up is, in part, because of politics. and i think she'd be the first to acknowledge that maybe she could have handled the original decision better and the disclosures more quickly. it is important for her to answer these questions to the satisfaction of the american public and they can make their
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own judgment. >> nbc's peter alexander joins us live now from the site of tomorrow's democratic debate, las vegas. peter, a lot at stake of course tomorrow ahead of that hillary clinton. still does not have important support from unions in va gaega. we also know that nevada is an early voting state so all of it, be very critical in that state at that location where you are. >> reporter: that's right. but despite the fact that hillary clinton has been behind in new hampshire and a narrow lead over bernie sanders in places like nevada, she does have the support of the democratic base, but if you take joe biden out of the race, the lead extends. sanders himself also has a challenge to try to make some inroads with african-american and hispanic voters as well.
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he's had predominantly white supporters in most of his rallies already throughout the course of his campaign. we are getting a preview of what to expect from hillary clinton's opponents as they get the first chance to share the debate stage with her. bernie sanders among the likely topics to focus on flip-flopping on trade and the economy, he referred to his own consistency on topics like that in his conversation with chuck todd on "meet the press." martin o'malley doing an event yesterday and today reinforced one of the points you may hear from him as perhaps the attack dog on the stage. which is that it is his actions that we should focus on, not the language of his opponent, trying to track his executive status in maryland. the stage is set. the one candidate not here, the so-called elephant not in the room is joe biden. 2,500 miles away in delaware.
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i spoke to his communications team a short time ago. i said will he be in las vegas tomorrow night? they said not right now. if he does come, there's a podium waiting for him. but we wait and see. >> let me bring in our political panel this morning. long-time nevada political reporter john ralston, host of "ralston live" on pbs state wide in nevada. also former vermont governor and national democratic committee chairman, howard dean. john, start with you. obviously peter's report makes some points about the unions so far not backing hillary clinton with. what the numbers look like there on the ground. you know better than anyone else the importance of the state because of the early voting. >> yeah. listen, tamron, hillary got organized in nevada very, very early. she's been here for months. she learned the lessons of 2008 where she didn't like caucus states. she hired people who were here for obama in 2008. she hired a lot of latino
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activis activists. the latino vote is very, very important here. it is one-quarter of the population. it will be significant in the caucus. bernie sanders held his first organizational meeting in nevada this weekend, tamron. those numbers do not surprise me at all. hillary is in very, very good shape here. i think she knew somehow way back when that she needed to create a fire wall in nevada in case in those super white states of iowa and new hampshire especially as governor dean well knows bernie sanders is going to do well. >> governor dean, to that point. let me play what bernie sanders said on "meet the press" regarding his strategy and how he hopes to approach a way to distinguish himself from clinton while not attacking. >> from day one, i opposed the keystone pipeline. tpp. i believe that our trade policy's going way back then. people will have to contrast my consistency and my willingness to stand up to wall street and
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corporations, big corporations, with the secretary. >> if bernie sanders is not going to go on the attack, who do you believe will? will it be o'malley? will it be webb? lincoln chaffee who's already criticized clinton on voting for the war in iraq? >> they'll all go on the attack in a certain way. what bernny does is a much more subtle form of attack. he runs positive campaigns in general. i think this is a great opportunity for two people. one thing is martin o'malley who nobody's been able to hear from, this guy is a competent, thoughtful articulate guy. i think he's going to surprise some people. the other is hillary who's been in the news for six months. now she gets to make her case directly to the people without would-be gossip columnists. i think it is a real opportunity for her. i think bernie will do well, good debater, very solid. but the night is the real opportunity for hillary clinton and also for martin o'malley. >> i don't know what you mean by
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gossip columnists, but i do know the headline of benghazi is seen as a legitimate topic but she does have a huge opening now with this investigator who was fired saying that the focus became hillary clinton. the president saying in his remarks, governor, that he did not think this was posing national security problems but that she should have held herself to a higher standard. now she's going to be on that debate stage and she has the republicans many say to thank for two major openings, mccarthy and now this investigator who says he was fired because he was told to focus in on her. >> i think we're suffering here a little bit from this sort of moral equivalency. i think everybody inside washington and most people in the media know that this investigation has been a farce from the beginning. this is the ninth investigation into this matter. finally they got rid of darrel issa and put in someone who they thought was competent who just turns out to be more and partisan and just as sophisticated at darrel issa.
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somebody in the white house knew hillary clinton was using a separate server because she told the state department that. this is -- i think this e-mail scandal is nonsense. i think it's been nonsense from the beginning. the product of a press that didn't have enough to do, a sophisticated right wing organization and this sort of pathetic moral equivalency between one side's version versus another side's version. i think if the press knows what the truth is, they ought to say if and they haven't done it yet. >> this makes the case that hillary clinton and her supporters have known all along about benghazi. what she does not have is a man deemed a credible investigator who was fired and a person who was planning to be the next speaker of the house, whether he's apologized or retracted still saying those words. that was not on the list of options for hillary clinton and they now are. >> well, i have to tell you, tamron. in politics, as in life, sometimes it is better to be lucky than to be good.
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i find it quite humerus people are saying i'm shocked that a congressional investigation turned out to be political. these things are talked about behind the scenes all the time. on both sides, democrats and republicans. the difference here is what you said. you have this guy coming forward. yes, he may have an ax to grind but he seems like a credible guy. cnn was very careful about how they presented this guy. but there's always a binary choice. right? in washington it is either a partisan investigation or a real fact finding exercise. bottom line is, yes, this was partisan to some extent. on the other hand, governor dean is fond of attacking the press on this, but it is clear that there are some real issues here about hillary's e-mail server, how she handled it, what was on that server, and her flippant way of dealing with this in many of her responses. but let's be clear what the president said, too, tamron. he did not go beyond what hillary has already said. it's being played that he
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criticized her. she's already now said finally it is a mistake. that's all the president said. and he was very tepid in the rest of it. >> absolutely. gentlemen, thank you so much for your time. we greatly appreciate it. now to some developing news. donald trump who rose to the top of the gop race in his party by appealing in large part to the hard right of the republican party, well now he is possibly looking at voters who do not align themselves with either party. these are live pictures from manchester, new hampshire where donald trump is speaking at the no labels conference. that's a group of nearly 2,000 undeclared voters in the state. let's take a quick listen. >> so when we talk about no labels and we talk about getting along -- i'm not going to say it too much because tip o'neill and ronald reagan, you probably hear it every speaker. but i look at that as the ultimate, when two people, different views, different everything, and they like each other, and they get along. and they got things done. and they had a leader in ronald
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reagan. because ultimately it is about the president. it is. much more so about the president than you can imagine. and if the president is a leader, if he's a real leader or she is a real leader, you'll get things done. but you need the leadership to come from the very pinnacle from the very top. and if it doesn't, it's not going to happen. and that's not happening now. it's not happening now. people aren't getting together. and i see it. i've been actually doing this for a long time. lot of people say, oh, gee, i was very establishment. i was the ultimate. i gave more money than anybody. i would give so much money. i was all establishment when i gave contributions. right? when he decided to run, i was anti-establishment. can you believe this? but we can't take a chance on a loss. i mean i watched previously two -- in particular two. last time i was seriously thinking about doing it. i decided not to because i thought it was a race that could have been won, should have been won, and i don't want that to
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happen again. i don't want it to happen again. because i think it's really did shall if you look at what happened, four years ago, boy. timing was right. everything was right. and it should have been done. well, it's going to be done this time and hopefully it is going to be done by me and i think we're going to have a result that's going to be great. we are going to turn the country around, we're going to make america great again and that's what's going to happen. that's what's going to happen. i look at a couple of things that i thought would be appropriate and i'm thinking back of my career and on my career when i was young, a young man in new york, we had a problem called a skating rink. it took eight years. everyone knows. they now study it in all the business schools. they're all nodding their heads. we all studied it. i didn't study it but i did it. but it's in all the business schools. about what private enterprise can do. and we had a rink. i mean it wasn't such a little
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deal. it was 80,000-foot rink. it is a very big rink. and the government -- >> we'll keep an ear out on this latest speech from donald trump. but i do want to talk more about this no labels and his agenda there. joining me now, chairman steele, let me start with you here. you just heard donald trump say he was the ultimate establishment and he would give money as the ultimate establishme establishment, you know the attack line by his rivals have been a lot of the support he gave were to democrats. his dollars went to democratic candidates in the past here. but it is interesting this no-labels event and that he's there talking about getting along, whether the leader of this country ends up being a man or a woman, this notion of bringing together when he's been accused, as you well know from the very beginning, of being first and focused being a divisive candidate. >> well, a couple of things there. one, as an establishment
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candidate, he has solely been that from the financial side. in the sense that he supported the national committee and candidates all up and down the line. so those are bona fide for that group saying i've been on the inside so i know how this works. then he transitions into now that i'm running and have a broader view and perspective, like you, i'm on the outside. i'm trying to make the difference you need to have made. and in front of a group like no labels, this can be a very, very strong argument to make, because their expanse and their footprint has grown since the 2012 cycle. more and more people are lining themselves with that thought process of i'm taking a broader holistic view at everybody. and donald trump being there for this conference is a statement by his campaign that he's serious and he's legitimately going after every vote. >> let me bring you in, steve. this organization, no labels, was founded by former utah
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governor jon huntsman and former it senator john lieberman. the game plan if he makes it through the primary versus the game plan he's got to play next, what might we likely see in the next few days is the drusonald trump we need to put up this huge wall that no one else can build and no plan on what he would refer to as amnesty, he's probably going to give a different message at that forum. >> we have new polling numbers out, too. on the weekend donald trump on the republican side continues to lead the republican field at 27% there nationally. it is interesting, you alluded to this in the introduction. the way he has built that 27% support has been going hard after the core republican base. that makes it a bit of an odd marriage, the idea of donald trump coming and appearing at a group like no labels with a very centrist, bipartisan, non-partisan bring the two parties together type of message. donald trump was on some of the sunday shows yesterday. he was on "face the nation" yesterday basically making the argument that the republicans in congress have been too willing to compromise with barack obama, they need to take more of an absolutist position to get obama
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to bend in their direction. that's not necessarily the kind of message you'd expect to be hearing at no labels but of course this is a guy running for president and this is a chance to get some attention, build some support and get on tv so he's going to take it. >> chairman steele, looking at numbers, total of 60% of republican voters think an outsider is their best chance. one of those outsiders still remains dr. ben carson. i wants to play a little bit of what he said yesterday, trying to clarify the comments he made linking gun regulations to nazi germany. >> what i wonder is do you think it's that close here or is that just hyperbole to use it as a nazi analogy? >> it is not hiyperbole at all. whether it is on our doorstep or whether it is 50 years away, it is still a concern and it is something that we must guard against. >> there was a headline, chairman, saying basically ben carson wants to talk about the news headlines of the day but what the media has not
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criticized him with is a lack of policy. we aren't hearing a lot of specifics but we hear reaction to the book, some of these things that happen on the campaign trail. even donald trump has unveiled what he says is his tax plan. >> yeah. i think that is going to have to be the next big step for ben carson is to really get into the substance of his policy views. not just on matters of war and peace, but specifically on the economy and how he would -- as far as a lot of republicans concerns, grow us into a better economy than the one we are in now. so i think for him, he's kind of stuck in sort of talking backwards. in other words, everything is a reference back to what you said about this, that or the other thing. that has nothing to do with what everybody is concerned about. while that has not hurt mhim ye, i think by this third debate when voters settle down, from this point forward it gets much more serious for the voter and they tend to be much more
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discriminating in where they want to place that vote in a month or two time. he's got to be able to be in that space, not just because they like him, they like his demeanor but he's got to bring something else to the table. he's right now stuck talking about the past remarks versus what he wants to do. >> speaking of remarks, steve is keeping an ear and eye on this event in new hampshire. you'll bring us any headlines from it as donald trump speaks at the no labels conference in that state. thank you both. coming up, the outsider versus the establishment. the battle over who will be the next house speaker still playing out, including during a pretty terse exchange between two republicans on "meet the press." >> we have to establish bipartisan coalitions to pass any meaningful legislation. >> there you go again. >> you want nancy blow is i to help determine our speaker for the republican conference. >> yeah. two republicans. that's what you were watching there. now some republicans feel like congressman paul ryan has to decide in the next 24 to 48
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powers if he wants the job. and this -- >> this is a play you used to see happen a lot 30 years ago. very rarely see it happen now. >> rarely see it happen now but it all played out. the controversial slide that ended with a player's leg bro n broken. a dongers player is now suspended two games. many are asking if the league will enact new rules to protect its players. we're back after this. looks like some folks have had it
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insists he hasn't changed his mind about not running the race for the speakership. opening a divide with republicans in congress with two factions of the party clashing on sunday morning programs. on "meet the press," a member of the freedom caucus accused moderate republican charlie dent of trying to get conservatives kicked out for not toeing party line. >> charlie here wants us to follow like a caucus or whatever. he wants to kick us out of our conference for voting our conscience. >> i won't do that. >> you're on record. >> i said we should marginalize people who don't want to govern. i bloo everybody thelieve that congress who want to govern. for those who don't want to govern, we have to pass bipartisan legislation -- >> there you go again. you want nancy pelosi to help determine our speaker for the republican conference. >> how do you know that? i've never said that. >> you're missing it, charlie. i just said i will support if
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he's for the process and for policy that the american people want. everything you want nancy pelosi to be in speaking -- and you want to kick conservatives out of our own conference. >> joining me now, democratic congressman gregory mecum of new york. we invited members of the free democrat caucus. you're the in next best thing -- a democrat. you i'm sure greatly enjoyed watching that play out because i think that many democrats say this points out to what the obama administration's been dealing with and house democrats have been dealing with. >> it would be feeling if it wasn't so serious. there are real people that are hurting. we know that the american people, the middle class, looking to get better wages. they're looking to have a better standard of living. yet you see why congress has been bogged down for so long and can't do anything. it's why we can't pass a transportation and highway bill. it's why we can't get the debt ceiling raised to make sure we can pay our debts and not default on it.
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it is not why we can't do a long-term budget to help stabilize our country. despite all of that, president obama has done a lot to get us from where we were in 2008. but there's real opportunity that should be, as exhibited on "meet the press," if the republicans are serious about governing. and that is that you do have to talk to democrats. you do have to try to figure out how you work coalitions together. it has always been in our country's history where you've had both democrats and republicans compromise and when you have this group -- this freedom caucus who says compromise is a bad word, that then shuts down government. so if the republican leadership can't decide, if the republicans can't decide a leader who they will allow to at least talk to democrats to get the full scope of what the american people feel, then i believe that a good number of the moderate republicans should get together and come together with some of the democrats and see if we can form a coalition together.
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>> that would be incredible. >> it would change the course of politics for the united states and we could get things done. so i know we're going to reach out to charlie dent and others and i hope that that dialogue and conversation begins. some people talk behind the scenes because we would then have a new type of politics -- >> so this dialogue is actually happening behind the scenes. >> some folks are talking about it. but it takes someone seriously to put it together. it is going to really mean that there be, quite honestly, because they have the majority vote right now, is going to mean that the moderate republicans need to come together and say we don't have to put up with these 40 or 50 folks who want to shut down government because this is our country, too. we're going to come together in a coalition with some folks and move forward. a huge opportunity is now at stake. i hope that someone steps forward and shows some real leadership and let's do it. >> that would be absolutely incredible if that happened. you pointed out donald trump is speaking at that no labels conference which is in new hampshire right now.
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i believe the sign at the bottom looking for solutions. the whole idea of this conference is that it's problem solvers, that's their logo there. it's supposed to focus in on not having this label. something very similar to what you are discussing pass an option with the house leadership. >> if donald trump was serious -- which i don't think he is -- then because at one time just the other day he's taking credit for partisanship saying that -- >> this he led the battle to get mccarthy out. >> so now what the no labels group wants to do is to try to get folks together. so let's try to do that. i don't necessarily disagree with him because not all issues are democratic or republican but have to be compromised. when we have to listen to the american people, there are american people on both sides. we should be listening to all of the people in congress and trying to come up with a compromise that moves the nation
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forward so our middle class, our poor can prosper the way we have in the past. that's what we need to do and focus on that opportunity. it's there. >> congressman meeks, thank you. coming up, criminal charges could still be filed against the rookie officer who killed 12-year-old tamir rice despite two outside investigations saying the officer acted "reasonably." we'll have the latest on where this case could go next. also developing, southwest airlines says they've stabilized a computer glitch that delayed hundreds of flights in what flyers call a day of "pure hell." we'll be right back. eat the way. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon.
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activists are slamming two reports released on the investigation into the death of 12-year-old tamir rice in cleveland, ohio. the reports conclude offithe ofr acted "reasonably" when he shot
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and killed rice last november as he held what turned out to be an air gun. separate investigations were conducted by a retired fbi agent and by a prosecutor in denver at the request of the county prosecutor. at a rally yesterday, the family's attorney and other demonstrators accused the prosecutor's office of showing bias towards police officers. >> the rice family is profoundly disappointed and upset that the prosecutor has evidently been on an 11-plus-month journey to ensure there is no accountability and no indictment of the officers who were responsible for the death of tamir rice. >> we will have to revisit the community on a national level. if you don't this is going to continue to happening. it seems the officer would give the young man a chance. >> in a state, the cuyahoga county prosecutor says his office is "not drawing any conclusions about the findings
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in the report." the case will still be evaluated by a grand jury. there's also outrage this morning over dramatic video showing a texas city councilman being tazed by an officer outside his home. it happened in the same town in texas in which the controversial arrest of sandra bland and even involved one of the same officers. we should warn you though this video will be troubling to many people. >> i'm going to have to tase you. >> put your lands behind your back! >> councilman jonathan miller says he was hosting a group of friends outside his home last thursday night when officers approached them. charles, obviously that does not show the entire incident which we know that. what are officers saying was going on there? >> so there were two videos, one
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from a friend of the councilman and the other from the body camera of the police officer. this is happening in prairie view, texas, population 5,000. it is about an hour's drive west of houston. it's the same town, as you mentioned, that sandra bland was stopped for not changing lanes properly by a state trooper. she was charged with assault and later died in jail. this incident happened with local police on thursday night. they were patrolling the councilman's neighborhood which the police chief says is a high-crime neighborhood. they saw four men standing in front of the council member's house in his yard acting suspiciously. the officer stopped to check it out. that's when the councilman came outside to question the officers why they were there. they asked him repeatedly to stand back and he continued talking to the officers. they continued to tell him to go back. at one point they tried to arrest him. he resisted arrest according to the officers. they had him down on the councilman's knees. they were trying to get the
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hands behind his back and he refused to do so. he was even told that he would be tased if he didn't comply with the officer's commands. he didn't and he was tased. the councilman says he can't believe that the officers that he knows and that they know him would do this. he says he did nothing wrong. here's what he had to say. >> i don't feel like i did anything that i'm accused of. i don't feel like i should have been even detained or arrested or anything. >> we will do a complete investigation. we're looking at all the facts that are surrounding that incident and to determine whether or not any of our policies were violated or that we followed department protocol. here's in the process of reviewing all the information at this time. >> the police chief larry johnson promises a full investigation. the two officers you saw on that tape are both still on the job. there are only six officers in this entire town. the police chief promises a full investigation and it should be
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noted that the four men that they initially stopped to check out and cooperated with authorities, they were not charged. tamron? >> thank you very much, charles. coming up, we return to politics one day ahead of the first democratic debate. is there any chance that joe biden will take that seat that's being left on that stage for him? nbc's senior political editor mark murray is next with what each candidate must do tomorr tomorrow -- next. ne. then smash it into a tree. your insurance company's all too happy to raise your rates. maybe you should've done a little more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ everything kids touch during cold and flu season sticks with them.
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given certain stage. the other three candidates offer them a national spotlight and a chance to ecbra out much like carly fiorina did in the second republican debate. here to handicap it, nbc news senior political editor, mark murray. i said handicap but again, so often people see this as a sport and of all places it is in vegas when as congressman meeks was just on, saying this is real life and this is an opportunity for example bernie sanders as he said on "meet the press" to not go on the attack but present distinctions in what he believes he can offer. >> that's right. policy does matter the most. what they are going to end up saying on the debate stage, the promises they make are ochften e ones that are acted upon when you're in the oval office. that's so important. but when we look at the horse race and game inside the debate, it is pretty clear that all eyes are going to ebeing on hillary clinton. the last three months have been
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very, very difficult for her as she's been bogged down in the e-mail controversy. whether or not joe biden was going to be able to run. people focusing on her poll numbers. october allows her to kind of reset the page, whether it is this debate, whether it is her benghazi testimony on october 22nd or the iowa debate on october 24. iowa is so important for her. this debate to kind of let other democrats realize this is the person who's going to be the best general election candidate for us. bar none, she is so superior to everyone else on that debate stage. that's what you're going to see. for hillary clinton that would be mission accomplished. >> what about the no eggs thtio could be an opening for martin o'malley. >> "martin o'malley is like the scott walker on democratic side. he's a guy whose candidacy makes tremendous sense in theory but who has not caught fire with voters. similar to walker o'malley comes across as too rehearsed."
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it points out there may be some kind of opening. >> that's right. even jim webb or lincoln chaffee. you want to be able to steal a moment. i think your description and comparison with carly fiorina is an apt one. she stole moments in her first two performances. someone like martin o'malley clearly has a strong resume and a lot of accomplishments as former democratic governor of maryland. to be able to say, look beyond the 2% or 3% i'm polling and i offer more than that. the debate offers him an opportunity on it. question is can he seize it. >> mark, thank you. this week prosecutors from across the country are gathering in new york for a summit on wrongful convictions. while the goal is to tackle the issue of wrongful convictions, it comes as the obama administration is ramping up its efforts on criminal justice reform overall. the administration recently announced the release of 6,000 federal prisoners to reduce overcrowding. some of these men and women have
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maintained they still have been wrongly convicted. msnbc legal correspondent arly melber joins me now with more on the issue. one of those men wrongfully convicted and the twist of fate in his life is like a movie. >> it is a pretty incredible story. i spent time in chicago with jared adams, he spent nine years in prison for a crime he insisted he did not commit. taught himself to lawyer while in prison. appealed through the project, got the innocence project in wisconsin to take his case and it went all the way up to the 7th circuit, the to the court in the midwest. they overturned his conviction, he got out of prison, put himself through college and loyola law school. he's standing in front of the 7th circuit. why? because he just won a clerkship to work for the 7th circuit for the courts that set him free. it's a pretty incredible story. i spoke to him. here's what he said about how our prison systems are operating. >> we are locking up and
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throwing away some of the brightest minds that we have in this country. a stigma is being placed on people. you know. who go to prison. just to think, i was in prison! and now a lawyer working for the 7th circuit judge? i didn't just take a smart pill upon my release. you know? so imagine if i had to serve this 19 years in prison and not be able to contribute my perspective to society right now today. that's what we're doing now. we may locking up to cure the cancer. we may be locking up our next generation of finders and believers and doers in the united states. >> ari, he brings up so many issues. i lived in chicago for ten years. a case that's still playing out in many ways where a detective to force people into false confessions. burke is his last night. you also have a situation where i interviewed another man in
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chicago who spent 25 years of his life on death row for a crime he did not commit. didn't get the support that this gentleman has. and the disproportionate number of african-american males who are sentenced more harshly and then when they get out, in cases where they were rightfully convicted they're not given an opportunity to get a job as the president has discussed with -- >> as you say, it runs so deep. we do these reports. it touches so many things, you don't have time to get to it. the burke case. dean yellen picked several loyola students to go through those cases. jarrett adams was one of them. one of those cases has been overturned. african-american man who spent over 25 years in prison, including work that jarrett and others did, they found out it was torture that led to the false confession. that man was 19 when that happened. as for jarrett's case, i spoke to a former federal prosecutor, someone tasked with putting
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people away in the 7th circuit. he's gone on to mentor jarrett and goes on to talk about how he never heard of anyone going on this kind of path. here he is. >> no, i never have. jarrett is remarkable. when he was in prison, he spent that time educatie ining himsel around educating himself about the law. and so he was very direct when he got out of jail about finishing college, getting into law school, going to law school, graduating from law school and he did all that. it is amazing what he's done. >> that is amazing. >> yeah. it's unusual. and one of the things that that prosecutor spoke about and some of the other lawyers i interviewed is not a secret to those who have looked at the system and reported on it. the way that the prisons operate today, there isn't a path out for most people to get a job, to get educated -- recidivism. someone like this who could hit
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the prison library and educate himself. he is remarkable, yet the question remains for policy, is that the only way out we want to offer or is it better for america to figure out other ways for people to become law abiding citizens and integrate afterwards. >> ari, keep in mind to watch ari's special live interview with jarrett adams coming up today at 4:00 p.m. eastern time only on msnbc. thank you very much. we got some breaking news to report. a cabinet minister in zimbabwe says american dentist walter palmer will not be charged for killing cecil, the lion. they allegedly used bait to lure him out of his habitat in national park so he could be killed. as for the dentist, palmer of minnesota, the cabinet minister says he is free to visit zimbabwe as a tourist but not as
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a hunter. coming up, the dodgers player that a lot of people are not happy with this morning. chase utley suspended. but larger question is will the league make some significant changes to rules to protect its players? that's next. rvices - all from a trusted it partner. centurylink. your link to what's next. want bladder leak underwear that try always discreet underwear and wiggle, giggle, swerve and curve. with soft dual leak guard barriers and a discreet fit that hugs your curves. so bladder leaks can feel like no big deal. get your free pair and valuable coupons at always the way i see it, you have two choices; the easy way or the hard way. you could choose a card that limits where you earn bonus cash back. or, you could make things easier on yourself. that's right, the quicksilver card from capital one.
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tonight, the dodgers and mets will face off in game three of their playoff series but the dodgers will be without one of their key players who is now at the center of a major dust-up that could have significant implications for major league baseball. dodgers infielder chase utley has been suspended for two games over this controversial move saturday night. he was attempting to break up a play and slide to second base when he ran into mets infielder ruben tejeda. the collision resulted in a broken leg for tejeda. mets players and fans outraged. some arguing the play was a deliberate dirty hit which utley denies. he's now appealing the suspension and according to the
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l.a. times, utley was said to be distraught by what happened to tejeda and extended an apology. but as some headlines suggest, many are wondering if the mets will seek retribution or if this could lead to a change in rules. joining me, yahoo! sports writer and nbc sports network contributor, jay busby. what say you? two games, is that enough? the pressure's on mlb. what do you think here? >> this is a case where you've got a situation that's happened for years in major league baseball, this kind of taking out the double play, so it was deliberate. i don't think it was dirty. he was deliberately trying to break up the double play. had he just flipped tejeda over and not broken his leg, i don't think we would be having this conversation. had it not happened in the middle of the playoffs, i don't think we have be having this conversation. yes, these are the kind of things that start the impetus for rules changes. >> so this starts the impetus for the rules change. where will it lead or once we get locked into the playoffs even more and forget about this, tejeda won't, of course, but --
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and might be not the mets since they certainly need him. will we see major league take a serious look at this and act? >> a few years ago we had a situation where buster posey, the catcher for the san francisco giants, broke his leg in one of these run-downs and they immediately instituted rules to protect catchers from getting run over. i think you will see something similar where the player has to at least make some sort of attempt to be going for the bag. in this case he was very clearly, he started his slide at the bag and was very clearly looking to take out tejeda rather than slide into the bag. >> utley's agent released a statement saying a two-game suspension for a legal base bull play is outrageous and completely unacceptable. chase did what all players are taught to do in this situation, break up the double play. do you think you'll have any success in appealing this? >> well, he's got to do it fast because the game isn't very long from now. i don't see it happening. i see major league baseball going ahead, upholding the suspension. honestly, for utley's benefit, he gets suspended for the two
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games in new york for his own peace of mind, that might be a better situation for him to sit out these two. >> we'll see what happens. thank you for joining us. greatly appreciate it. that does it for this hour of "msnbc live." i'm tamron hall. we are here for you every day 11:00 a.m. eastern time on msnbc. "andrea mitchell reports" is next. [ male announcer ] some come here to build something smarter. ♪ some come here to build something stronger. others come to build something faster... something safer... something greener. something the whole world can share. people come to boeing to do many different things. but it's always about the very thing we do best. ♪ but it's always about the very thing we do best. we tayou keep the peace. nose. we calm your congestion and pain.
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>> this has become a partisan investigation. i honestly do not believe this investigation was set up to go after hillary. i believe it shifted that way. >> it's a damn lie. that's not a word that i often use but rarely is it so easily proven. and convicted. a "washington post" reporter held prisoner in iran is found guilty after a kangaroo trial. has the u.s. government done enough to free jason rezaian? the foreign editor joining me today. >> we think at this moment it's vital this they make clear to iran's senior leaders that they expect them to do the right thing. this is a moment when the world needs to signal loud and clear just how outrageous it sees this action and the condemnation is universal. good day. i'm andrea mitchell coming to
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you from las vegas today, where the democrats are going to hold their first of six debates tomorrow night. hillary clinton still the front-runner, will be center stage. the latest poll shows that clinton leads the five contenders but her lead narrows if joe biden were to get into the race. and hillary clinton's unfavorables are at an all time high. meanwhile, biden was with his family in delaware this weekend keeping his decision making a secret despite all of the feverish speculation. on "60 minutes" the president was asked about a potential biden run. >> i think joe will go down as one of the finest vice presidents in history and one of the more consequential. i think he's done great work. i don't think there's any politician at a national level that has not thought about being the president and if you are sitting right next to the president at every meeting, wrestling with these issues, i'm sure that for him, he's saying to himself i could do a really good job.


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