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tv   MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts  MSNBC  October 13, 2015 10:00am-12:01pm PDT

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increasingly progressive democratic base. >> i think you have a right to organize. you have a right to safe working conditions. you have a right to a living wage. >> i don't represent the interests of corporate america and i don't represent the interests of the billionaire class. we don't want their money. we're going to do it on our own. >> five candidates will be on that main debate stage. there is no happy hour debate like the gop and there is no vice president joe biden, who is still reportedly considering a run. it is former secretary of state hillary clinton and senator bernie sanders along with two former governors, maryland's martin o'malley and rhode island's lincoln chaffee as well as former virginia senator jim webb. with a number of different story lines, how will hillary clinton weather questions about her private e-mail i have so and those e-mails while she was part of the president's cabinet? how will bernie sanders handle
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his largest national audience to date? and will the two be taking any jabs at each other? and what about the other three candidates, o'malley, chaffee and webb? do any of them have a chance to steal the show with a carly moment? we have every angle covered for you from on the ground to vegas. msnbc's casey hunt, john harwood, who covers national politics for cnbc and "new york times" and ron allen covering the man many believed would be on that stage tonight, vice president joe biden. casey, let me start with you. donald trump had tweeted earlier today he's going to be watching and tweeting live for the democratic debate which he said was going to be boring. he doesn't expect it to bring the big ratings. we got a tweet from hillary's campaign and from hillary moments ago saying glad you'll be watching, it's going to be huge. so how huge are we talking here? and the expectations for the first time these five are all together? >> thomas, i think that everybody agrees the ratings are not going to be as huge for the democratic debate as they have
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been for some of the debates that trump has been a part of, but i do think the expectations here and the role that this moment is going to play in the race on the democratic side, it's really hard to overstate the importance of that at this point. i think especially for hillary clinton, her team knows that this is something that could potentially cause them even more issues than they have already been facing. there's this sense between the e-mails, between her impending testimony on benghazi that maybe the wheels are coming off the campaign a little bit from some in the democratic party and that's of course something that people who are close to joe biden are watching very carefully and considering what she's up to. but i think a lot of people who are close to her would privately say that she's in a no-win situation. if she does in fact perform well, she does what she's best at which is getting down into the nuts and bolts of policy, things that she's really cared about for many many decades and has really studied hard to learn, that's of course something she has been doing since she was in high school. she's been debating. if she does all of that as best
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she can, does it come off just as boring, is that what ultimately the assessment is, then if she makes a mistake, it of course is viewed through this prism of everything else that's been going on with her campaign and potentially sets up an increasing confrontation with joe biden. i think expectations definitely sky-high, but i do think there's a sense among clinton aides that there's not necessarily a great way out of this for her. >> maybe there's a merger between hillary and "snl's" val that we will see onstage. i want to bring in msnbc's andrea mitchell. controversies like her private e-mail use is sure to come up. her approach has changed since you sat down with her in september. when you specifically asked her are you sorry. how do you think she's prepared to tackle that issue now? >> she's clearly going to apologize if asked, and she will be asked presumably by the moderator because the other candidates are less likely to go
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there. it is not a case where bernie sanders certainly is going to attack her on the e-mails and benghazi. they all view the benghazi committee as being as partisan as she claims it is. so especially after kevin mccarthy's comments and the controversies involving trey gowdy and his former investigator in the last 48 hours. it's very unlikely they would bring it up but the moderators will and when that happens, she will be apologetic and try to move on. i think in that regard, she's looking forward to the benghazi hearing on the 22nd as her next big hurdle. that is the big challenge for her nine days from now. and tonight, she's got to explain how she has not flip-flopped. clearly bernie sanders could bring that up and will bring that up, and the evolution of her policies on trade, on guns, where she has come out much stronger on gun laws, and on wall street campaign contributions and all the rest of those other issues. >> so john harwood, let's get
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you in on this. because a lot of debate watchers are curious about whether the other three in all of this, o'malley, chaffee and webb, are going to be able to break through. we got the latest poll numbers that came out from fox news. it puts these three men collectively at under 2%. from what you have been hearing behind the scenes, is there campaign chatter that one of these guys needs a carly moment to break through? >> well, i don't think a carly moment is available to any of these people in terms of something that would materially affect their standing in the race. remember, there's no structure to the republican race at all. the establishment candidates are struggling, the outsider candidates are doing well. that's a situation tailor-made for carly fiorina to make a strong impression which is what she did in that very first debate, the undercard debate. with hillary clinton and you've got somebody who is pretty popular among the people who are going to be watching the debate, pretty popular among people in the hall, remember, most of the action in the campaign so far has been played out in a union versus that is very hostile to
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hillary clinton. the republican field, the general election audience that has a lot of people who have misgivings about hillary clinton. this is a democratic audience that still overwhelmingly approves of her, so that makes it dicey for martin o'malley, lincoln chaffee or jim webb to go too hard at her. i would expect the ones with the greatest incentive to do that are chaffee and webb on the issue of iraq in particular, foreign policy. martin o'malley, who is trying to plant his flag for the future, it may be problematic for him to go hard after her, though he has on the campaign trail, because this is his introduction to a national audience. he needs to raise his numbers just like hillary clinton needs a solid performance with democrats now too. >> let's talk about the other issue here with ron allen and that is the man that's not going to be there, the vice president, joe biden. we have the organization that's been trying to draft him releasing a new ad i want to play a small portion of. take a look. >> my dad never failed to remind us that a job is about a lot
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more than a paycheck. it's about your dignity. it's about respect. it's about your place in the community. >> so two points. no forward motion on a yes or no from biden about being involved for a run and is there going to be a lingering effect on this tonight? >> well, that remains to be seen but i can assure you, thomas, that there's no indication that the vice president is going to quickly announce today and jump on a plane and fly out to vegas at the last minute. as i understand it under the rules, he could do that and still participate, but that's not going to happen, as much as that might be a very dramatic story. no indication of what he's going to do. we were with him all weekend outside of his home most of the weekend up in delaware, where he was with his family out and about enjoying some sporting events with his grandkids and others. and that's the issue for him. family. he is still very open about how he is grieving the loss of his son beau and this is a tremendous weight on him.
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he doesn't know he's emotionally able to make this run for the presidency. right now he's here, meetings with the president, and that's all we know. we have to see how this plays out because again, at this point, time is becoming a factor. there are also practical considerations about raising money and forming an organization. and people are gently tapping on this issue of when does it become too late out of respect for mr. biden during this period of grief. but the washington press corps is a restless bunch and the effort is cranking up to see will he or won't he. >> ron, thanks so much. one thing we can now report that is new news for donald trump, the fact he has agreed to host "saturday night live" coming up on november 7th. donald trump returning to host. he was host once before, april 3rd, 2004. for a lot of people, we saw hillary clinton take some time
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off the campaign trail to make a cameo. it's different when you appear as a host. casey, what are you hearing about this, if anything, and the calculations of leaving the campaign trail, what we anticipate for hosts when they sign up to do this, they have to commit for at least a week. >> thomas, it is a little bit of a commitment, sure, but donald trump's campaign has been run on the kind of oxygen that you get from doing something like this, from hosting something like this, and keep in mind this is going to come pretty shortly after the next up republican debate which is october 28th out in colorado. it's hosted by our own cnbc. so we are going to get another situation where he's going to come out of that debate, we have seen him come out the first time very strong out of the gate, the second time, a little less aggressively so but still no major changes in the polls. i think at that point in the race, we are obviously going to have another inflection there. i think we will start to get a sense of whether or not his campaign is really going to continue into this for the long haul but at least we know he's
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going to give himself another round of oxygen about a week and a half later. >> andrea mitchell, i want to give you the last word. boy, does donald trump know how to steal the headlines. >> he certainly does. he is such a showman. we know that. it tells you that lorne michaels is an absolute genius to book donald trump, that's ratings gold. >> what do you think about the commitment of a host and a candidate from the campaign trail leaving during critical november to show up here at 30 rock to prep for what would be a highly watched show? >> well, his campaign work does largely involve picking up the telephone and dialing up cable talk hosts and other television hosts. he isn't exactly out there every day. to me, this is not a heavy lift for him. it's the exposure is tremendous. >> yeah, he hasn't run a campaign ad, right? hasn't spent any money.
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>> he has not run a campaign ad. he says he spent $2 million according to the filing and has not spent one dollar other than production money on an ad he has not bought time for, because as he pointed out in a news conference in atlanta on saturday, he doesn't need to run any ads. he's getting on television without paying for the time. >> he's doing just fine. my thanks to all of you. we are taking your pulse on tonight's first democratic debate. my colleague here, frances with a look at the question. >> given the fact there are five candidates, five podiums, not a sixth, do you want joe biden to attend tonight's debate? we are talking not as a spectator, but as a participant. the pulse went live a few minutes ago. some of you are already voting early. look at this. how lopsided, 28% of viewerso far saying yes, they want joe biden to attend tonight's debate. 71% say no. this is just the early start of voting. we will continue this discussion
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throughout the next close to two hours. keep voting. pulse.msnbc.com. we will check the responses and bring them to you throughout the show. >> we look forward to that. thanks so much. i know you hit the streets today as well. to hear what people have to say about the candidates. we will have those interviews coming up later in the broadcast as well. still ahead, a viewer's guide to the democratic debate. what does each candidate need to say to score big on the vegas strip tonight? we will ask a couple of guys who know a thing or two about presidential politics. howard dean live in studio with me here at 30 rock, and ron reagan in seattle. we have a great conversation coming up. plus, dutch investigators reveal their findings about what brought down malaysian airlines flight mh-17 over ukraine last year. we will show you the dramatic animation recreating the moments leading up to the deadly disaster. and the iconic magazine that changed the way americans talk about sex is undergoing a dramatic makeover. heart health's important...
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tonight will be hillary clinton's first big debate performance since her failed 2008 campaign and that year, she fared very well overall but it couldn't come to a win for her, even against the man who would go on to beat her. >> what can you say to the voters of new hampshire on this stage tonight who see your resume and like it but are hesitating on the likability issue, where they seem to like barack obama more? >> well, that hurts my feelings. >> i'm sorry, senator. i'm sorry. >> but i'll try to go on. he's very likeable. i agree with that.
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i don't think i'm that bad. >> you're likeable enough, hillary. >> thank you. >> memorable moment still. it's not just the likability that must concern hillary clinton, it's the issue of policy flip-flops. for instance, her back and forth support of licenses in new york state for undocumented workers. >> senator clinton, i just want to make sure that i heard, do you, the new york senator, hillary clinton, support the new york governor's plan to give illegal immigrants a driver's license? you told the paper it made a lot of sense. do you support his plan? >> you know, tim, this is where everybody plays gotcha. it makes a lot of sense. what is the governor supposed to do? he is dealing with a serious problem. we have failed and george bush has failed. do i think this is the best thing for any governor to do, no. >> so i'm joined by howard dean, former vermont governor and former presidential candidate and ron reagan, msnbc analyst and the son of late president
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reagan. gentlemen, great to see you. governor dean, great to see you in person. >> nice to be back. >> let's talk about the clinton effect. you have been on the stage as a presidential candidate. like bernie sanders, you were this progressive coming from the left and this is one of hillary clinton's biggest concerns as the establishment candidate. you support hillary clinton. what do you suggest she does to engage and energize folks like we have seen bernie sanders be able to do? >> just be herself. that's the best advice i give any candidate. that's one of bernie's strengths. he's just himself. hillary has to sell an incredible competence and understanding of how the government works and a willingness to stand up to some of our foreign adversaries which i think is important in this race. so just be herself. that's all she has to do. >> so ron, you are listening to the governor talking about be herself. as former secretary of state, we all know that hillary clinton has the foreign policy down but what about the passion necessary to compete with bernie sanders
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on those progressive issues where he really has people engaged and feeling inspired by what he represents? >> well, nobody doubts that bernie sanders is an authentic progressive. he's been giving the same speech for the last 50 years. bit of hyperbole there. but hillary clinton, i agree with governor dean, she does have to be herself. she's actually a very witty, humorous person. if you see her in person and spend any time with her, she really does have a good sense of humor and is very sharp and quick. so she's got to exploit those talents that she has, those qualities, but also, she's going to have to deal with the question of, as you alluded to, the flip-flops. she has evolved on certain issues over the past year or so and anderson cooper of cnn made a point of saying that he's going to address questions to these candidates that highlight the fact that they have changed over time and hold them to account for that.
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that's not going to be a problem for bernie sanders because he hasn't changed. i will be for hillary clinton. she's going to have to deal with that. >> speaking of sanders, let's talk about this, because there is excitement behind him but he needs to come across as broadly electable and it's challenging when he says things like he did over the past weekend to our "meet the press" moderator chuck todd. take a listen. >> the other day i noticed you said you know what, don't use the word socialist. i'm going to say i'm a progressive. are you pushing back on the idea? >> look, when one of your republican colleagues gets on the show, do you say are you a capitalist? have you ever referred to them as capitalist? >> are you a capitalist? >> no. i'm a democratic socialist. >> do you think that's going to come back to bite him? >> no. the essence of politics is to say who you are and don't be ashamed of it. i thought that was a pretty brilliant comment. i also am not the least bit worried about hillary clinton quote unquote, flip-flopping.
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i think it's reasonable to change your position on issues that make sense. if she has a good explanation and i think there is a good explanation, she'll be fine. it's not the flip-flop question is not dangerous because you flip-flopped. the flip-flop question is dangerous because if the person doesn't respond with complete confidence about their different position on the issues, that's what does them in. >> there's an opportunity to do it with humor as well, because val was challenged by kate mckinnon on "snl." about certain issues of evolving. it was quite funny but at least she didn't shy away from taking those head-on and i think that's what we'll see coming up tonight. ron, let me ask you these questions because they concern other people. there are other folks that are going to be on that stage tonight. martin o'malley -- >> we forget sometimes. >> o'malley with just 4% in his home state of maryland. democrats who have seen him at events say he is impressive, they like what he represents. do you think that he could become a fiorina of the
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democrats? have that carly moment and really break through and we witnessed that by the wednesday/thursday headlines? >> i'm not sure that that's the right analogy. i'm not sure that any of the others, chaffee, webb or o'malley, are going to get a chance or should try and create a chance that is a fiorina moment. that was a very personal thing between her and donald trump that happened, and she was entirely justified in doing what she did, and it was smart and she pulled it off well. i'm not sure that, you know, a martin o'malley really stands to gain by going after, let's say, hillary clinton. i think he just needs to introduce himself to the american people, most of whom really don't know he exists yet. and the same for webb and chaffee. they just have to present their best selves and hope that people, hope the people like them. but i wouldn't look for any fireworks like you have seen with fiorina and trump. >> is it make or break for chaffee and webb tonight? >> no. there will be other debates but
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they are probably not spending much money. i think the stakes are a little higher for martin. martin's an experienced public servant. not that chaffee is not. he was governor for at least one term, maybe two in rhode island and a senator before that. i think that -- >> for o'malley, he wants a career in politics. he's a young guy. so tonight is very important. >> he's also the real deal. he was a reformer when he was governor. the problem is, it's going to be really hard to break through. >> gentlemen, thanks so much. tonight, be sure to watch msnbc for our full democratic debate coverage beginning at 7:00 p.m. it takes a lot of work... to run this business. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste.
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reports say the missile originated from eastern ukraine. it did not conclude who fired it. investigators say all 298 people on board were killed or lost consciousness as soon as the missile hit. about three feet from the cockpit. want to dig deeper into this report. tom costello joining us now. this is a damning confirmation but what else did we learn? >> reporter: the russians take issue with this, saying the dutch investigation was biased, that the conclusions are wrong. the analysts say the russians are the ones who have no credibility. look at this video. an incredible job of reconstructing this plane that the dutch have undertaken in a military hangar as they have meticulously put the plane, the boeing 777 back together again and during that process, they say they found key metal fragments and paint chips that come from a russian buk missile. here's the animation the dutch released. they say depicting what happened. they claim it was a surface-to-air missile made by the russians that exploded right near the cockpit of the boeing
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777 and when it did, it shattered all of that fragments, all of that shrapnel, into the cockpit and instantly killed the cockpit crew. then the rest of the passengers and crew members on board were probably rendered unconscious or died very quickly after that. here's the chairman of the dutch investigation board just a short time ago this morning. >> as a result of the detonation, the forward part of the airplane was torn off. the airplane broke up in the air. the wreckage came down in an area of about 50 kilometers in eastern part of ukraine. the missile was launched from a 20 square kilometer area in eastern part of ukraine. >> reporter: the dutch are not saying who fired the missile but as you know, u.s. and ukrainian intelligence have said from day one that it was either the russians themselves or russian-backed separatists who fired that missile. the russians today said that the
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conclusions are inaccurate. the russians claim that they don't have one of these russian buk missiles in their arsenal anymore. the analysts at jane's defense weekly say but they did at the time. also, the maker of that russian missile said that their investigation concludes in fact it was the ukrainians who fired that missile. today the white house is standing by its earlier conclusions that in fact, this was fired by either the russians or russian-backed separatists and that missile killed 298 people. back to you. >> nbc's tom costello, thank you. so which candidate are voters ready to double down on in tonight's democratic debate? frances rivera hit the streets of manhattan to find out what people are thinking and saying. plus can a gun store be held responsible for its customers' crimes? right now, a midwest jury is weighing that question and the answer could have national implications. plus this. >> the new york mets are a win away from going to the national
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safelite-dot-com is the fast, easy way to schedule service anywhere in america! so you don't have to miss a thing. y'all did wonderful! that's another safelite advantage. (girls sing) safelite repair, safelite replace. high stakes a big gamble. headline writers like those of us in the media hit the jackpot with the debate venue like las vegas. yes. moments ago, white house press secretary josh earnest rolling the dice on whether or not president obama will watch what's going down on the strip. >> i wouldn't be surprised if the president catches part of the debate tonight. i don't think that he will watch it wire-to-wire. there is a -- some pretty good playoff baseball on tonight. i would anticipate he may be doing a little channel surfing. >> all right. let's get back on the ground to msnbc political reporter, and alex, you have seven questions
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ahead of tonight's debate. what do you think the biggest one is that they all need to hit out of the park? >> reporter: well, number one for me is will hillary clinton meet the sky-high expectations that she will have coming into tonight. she's got the biggest name, the best chance of winning the nomination and the most experience on a presidential debate stage and that's all great, but it's also a double-edged sword because it means she will be under a microscope and held to an extremely high standard. there's a well-known curse for incumbent presidents when they face off against a challenger that they almost always lose in the first debate. she's the closest thing to an incumbent. number two, bernie sanders, how much will he go on offense. just a few moments ago i was talking to one of his top aides. they say this is mainly a chance for sanders to introduce himself to a wider audience but they warned if anybody attacks him, they will be sorry because sanders has a nasty streak and is not afraid to use it. number three, martin o'malley has really struggled in the polls. this could be his big night to break through but you know, speaking of the expectations game, he's built up his ability to do well in a debate.
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he's called for more and more debates. this is his chance to really show off. if he doesn't, it could be trouble for him. >> alex, thanks so much. the democratic field for president is small. compared to their republican colleagues and their public profiles vary dramatically. so frances went out to see what potential voters think about these candidates and came back with a collection of information for us. what did you find out? >> here's the thing ahead of tonight's debate. we talked to some of these people to speak to them and they pretty much were anxious to hear the democrats' view on the issues and watch them challenge each other before hearing from them. they actually already have impressions of these candidates. we experimented with name and word recognition. i asked for three words to describe the candidates they know about. interestingly enough, one person who hasn't declared his candidacy made that list. first we started with hillary clinton. take a listen. >> experience.
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class. and confidence. >> democrat, woman. >> popular, e-mails and instagram. >> liar. confused. and just shady. >> bernie sanders. >> bernie sanders. lone horse. game changer. contender. >> youth and he's pretty cool. >> age, peace and order. >> vocal. >> got two more words to describe bernie sanders? >> stern. and legitimate. >> joe biden. >> nice. nice guy.
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just a nice guy. >> obama, d.c. and i don't know. white house. >> 2008, vice president and yeah. that's it. washington. >> sorrowful, pitiful. >> so interesting to hear and see the answers out there, especially as varied as they were from different viewers that we talked to but also interesting how people really didn't hesitate too much and they put a lot of thought into it and these really are the words that came about. also interesting to watch a little later on, we spoke with, we brought pictures of the candidates. this experiment was kind of a word and anymore rni name recog. we have pictures and it's interesting to see as much as they know about tonight's debate, when you actually show
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them some of these candidates, interesting to see what they respond, who they did and didn't know. that's in the next hour. >> that was great live word clouds from those folks. i love that you will have images, we will see how everybody does with the images and name recognition coming up. we want to bring in the host of rolston life and long-time nevada political analyst. your first reaction when you hear those voters, what they had to say about the democratic candidates? are you surprised by any of their responses? >> i don't think so. but i think what's really interesting is that how many of those impressions can be changed by what happens tonight and even more so, since these are not going to have the kind of ratings that the republican debates have, because i don't think donald trump's going to show up although you never know. he has a place right across the street. >> he's already shown up, john. he's going to be hosting "snl." he got the headlines he wanted. it's coming up november 7th. i was announced today at 1:00. he's shown up. >> exactly.
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he's probably going to live tweet the debate and insult all the democratic candidates the way he's insulted all the republican candidates. i think what's really going to be interesting to watch tonight is as alex mentioned, what does hillary clinton do? can she show a lighter side? will she be able to deflect the inevitable attacks whether it's from bernie sanders or martin o'malley or lincoln chaffee or jim webb. can she act like a front-runner, try to be above it. what will bernie sanders do if he is challenged? we haven't really seen that. there are people on the far left who love bernie sanders. that's why he's been drawing all these huge crowds. here's bernie sanders for the first time on a real national stage in front of millions of people. finally, what's going to happen tomorrow and in the ensuing days with the coverage of this debate? how is that going to affect the impressions, who won, who lost, what do they really stand for. >> the headlines out of this will be interesting to see who pops, who doesn't and for
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hillary clinton, it is about leadership and not about punching down. everybody has something to gain by going after her. one thing before we let you go, wild card for tonight as we talk about those that have something to gain out of this, webb, chaffee, o'malley? can they break through? is this the do or die time for their campaigns? >> you know, i think they are probably all pretty much dead already. this isn't a carly fiorina situation where she made a splash in that first debate and was able to move into the top tier. you're just not going to get up there by going after hillary clinton. on the other hand, as alex said, martin o'malley has to do something, has to justify the reasons that he is in this race based on his record, based on what he's been saying. he really needs to go after hillary clinton. my guess is he does. >> we will all see tonight. that debate, our coverage beginning here on msnbc at 7:00 p.m. jon, thank you, sir. appreciate it. we have been taking your pulse today on a question that focuses on the first democratic debate, what the candidates set
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that we know are taking the stage in a few short hours. we wanted to find out if you wanted joe biden to be part of that debate as well. here is how you are reacting. take a look. 36% of you say yes. 64% of you say no. the pulse is live. go check it out. pulse.msnbc.com. more of your results in the show. coming up, planned parenthood made a major change to its policy about fetal tissue testing. still ahead -- >> the same last name that we both have and i say you got to be kidding. that's the same last name. we both share it. >> so you must see this. an incredible story of coincidence spanning two continents, two sisters were united after spending a lifetime apart. when my doctor told me i e age-related macular degeneration, amd we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression. and everywhere i look... i'm reminded to stick to my plan. including preservision areds 2. my doctor said preservision areds 2
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rescued two people from the building when the roof gave way, instantly killing both of them. the enormity of the loss was apparent when the city's fire chief briefed reporters today. >> rapid intervention team witnessed the collapse and held their ground for no more than ten seconds. for no more than ten seconds until command ordered them to effect the rescue. >> the firefighters who were killed have been identified as 17 year veteran larry legio and 13 year veteran john mesh. two other firefighters were injured. developing right now. today is deadline day in the felony case against former house speaker denny hastert. federal prosecutors say he withdrew $3.5 million over several years and that the payments went to an individual, individual a, for quote, past misconduct when he was a teacher and a coach. a plea deal would be hastert's best hope of preventing further details of the indictment coming
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into public light. now to a big development in the controversy surrounding planned parenthood. the organization announcing today that while it will continue to donate fetal tissue for medical research, it will no longer accept reimbursement for it. the organization was recently criticized after highly edited undercover videos from an anti-abortion group spurred angry backlash from republicans. nbc's capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell joins me with more on this. is this just a way to calm critics out there and ease the pressure off of planned parenthood and potential federal funding? >> reporter: i think that's exactly right. by removing this one issue from a very controversial set of facts and a heated summer of rhetoric, this could be a way for planned parenthood to take some of the pressure off. so cecile richards wrote to the national institutes of health to explain this change in policy. the law does allow for reimbursement of reasonable costs associated when fetal tissue from an abortion is
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donated for medical science. and the organization has done that in a limited way over time and that came out through those videos that you referenced. they're not going to do that any longer. the organization had also some strong words in a written statement today, saying that this removes beyond the shadow of a doubt the ludicrous idea that planned parenthood has any financial interest in fetal tissue donation and shows the real agenda behind these attacks. this policy takes away the smokescreen that extremists have been using to attack planned parenthood and lays bare their real agenda. from the other side, i have just heard back from the house oversight committee, the republican-led committee that's doing some of the investigation into planned parenthood, and they describe this as a good and tangible result of the inquiry that's been going on. and one of the issues in addition to those who just under any circumstances oppose abortion rights, that has been part of what has fueled this, but beyond that, the republican committee has been looking at the federal funding to the
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organization which is a nonprofit but also shows according to the committee a revenue stream of about $125 million a year and the question they're probing is does an organization that is able to generate income and get donations really need federal help in terms of direct grants to the organization. so this has been very -- hot button issue, very emotional, and this is a step today from the organization trying to turn it down and a welcome sign from house republicans on this, one narrow piece of a very big argument. >> we will see if this is truly a compromise for all sides. kelly, great to see you. thank you. all right. so what do we know about donald trump and november 7th? he's going to be doing something important that night. he's hosting "saturday night live." yes. so that's coming up. but tonight? what do you think he's going to be doing during the democratic debate in vegas? we will tell you. plus, "playboy" dropping a
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yeah, the dodgers an early lead and the mets were quick to answer and would never look back. the 13 runs for the mets were the most in postseason franchise history. new york will try to close out the division series tonight. that's game four. very controversial there. speaking of sweet. this is an amazing twist of fate leading to a family reunion that took 40 years to happen. >> here is the back story. these two woman were o o werpha
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but adopted in america. they worked side by side and worked in the same floor and same shift and unaware that they were long lost sisters just a few years apart:a dna test confirms that they were sisters separated for four decades. >> i knew that she was somewhere out there. i never gave up on her. >> look at that picture. it says it all. >> they don't look a like. it's like hey, we look alike. they don't even look so similar.
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fa fascinating. >> it's a good thing that they were friends. we know how siblings are. surprising from a 60-year-old magazine that's changing the ways. >> playboy is going to stop publishing images of naked woman. >> the magazine known for showing so much is about to show a lot less and turning the page on history. come march playboy is taking the nude out of the redesigned and the stories magazine is going to feature woman in poses and the models will no longer be fully nude. >> i they the internet killed playboy. nudity is something that's just somewhere through a google search, and so is what playboy did is not special anymore. >> debuts, marlin monroe was the original cover girl. what followed was more than 6 o 0 years of movie stars that posed nude. over time it began to plum mitt
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vegas at the top of the hour and the preps that go ffr in for th presidential debate. can she escape the drip drip drip? bernie sanders. can he move beyond the label. the man that's not there that's casting a long shadow across the events, joe biden. when are we going to learn his plan for 2016. a wave of violence and four more attacks and three people killed in israel. a meeting of officials and about the situation and protestors clashing in the west bank today. (man) hmm. what do you think? ♪ (stranger) good mornin'! ♪ (store p.a.) attention shoppers, there's a lost couple in the men's department. (vo) there's a great big un-khaki world out there. explore it in a subaru crosstrek.
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off. will bernie sanders deal her a few wild cards? >> she is the best debate er on the stage. >> i think that bernie sanders is on the stage. >> so what is it and sanders have to lose? >> i feel it. >> can you feel it? >> ben and lincoln is looking for a little beginners luck and tell us what happens in vegas does not stay in vegas. and donald trump do you re78 him? he stole him back and playing the trump card and announcing that he is going to host saturday night live in early november. i want to begin with casey.
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casey, what are we expecting here. often in the first debates the voters want the first impress to be positive and update. are we down playing it from any of the folks on the stage. >> potentially and it's been so much as you say and the under card in this debate is taking this as the first opportunity to introduce themselves to the american public for many of these guys it's the first chance to stand before a braoad audiene and that maybe smaller than it was for trum. for hillary clinton when there's a front runner, they strug until the first debate because the expectations are so high. think of how president obama performed against mitt romney in the fist debate or when romney stoed with rick perry. he was was looking to be sparks flying and everything that he did and said was judged against
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that metric. if she succeedsucceeds, maybe i across as boring. there's nothing interesting to see her. if she makes a mistake, she gets krurn crushed for it. >> there's a more jeep were oop the front runner. it does not seem as web and them are investing much on the campaign trail, and that people are taking them seriously yet. is font their opportunity to get folks to paying attention is this. >> well, they're wild cards because they are a little bit more sentric figures on the stage. web has issues and he may have been democrat at the moment when
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george bush was strong and there was a grip on the country and he was a southern democrat that was able to break through, the party is is in a different place now. he is out of step of where the base is. i think that one person to watch is mar rin. the balance of the political future and his interest in try to go break out of the pact. he is hovering down in three percent. he is a different candidate. he was the governor of maryland and a significant profile that has not been able to kind of poke through and get his message heard at all. i think that the decision is am i going to take this card to hillary clinton in hopes that i set something on fire here, or is he going to look at it from you know what, he is still young and then the clinton administration and then confused her as the most likely president of the united states. he is somebody that has a long
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standing and been supported by them in the past. the way that he approaches tonight is going to tell us a lot on what he is looking for in the future. >> yeah, he has been the most vocal and the crafting of how these debates are playing out and how most of them are playing out in prime time and the fact that they're starting so late and getting the leg up and msnbc in vegas for us. casey, thank you so much. we talk about this a lot but we don't know the answer. biden is not going to be at the debate. people wonder if he is going to be throwing the hat in the ring and locking in his own run for the candidates. he has not raised money or have one person on staff for a 2016 run. of course that has not stopped a draft biden group for airing a new commercial that goes with tonight's debate. >> my dad never failed to remind
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us that a job is about a lot more than a paycheck. it's about your dignity. it's about respect. it's about your place in the community. >> so going ahead to the white house with kristin. she was on biden watch in delaware where we did not get any forward motion of knowing yes or no. do we know anything of whether or not the vice president is going to be watching tonight kristin? >> we an at this titicipate tha to be watching closely. he has a series of meetings today and one with president obama and lthen with lynch. the fact that he tweeted it out, raised a lot of eyebrows. the question mupts when we will know. i was speaking with a source who
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say that is the vice respect knows that he has to make a decision soon. that could come within a week. take a listen. >> i think that the vice president himself has a couple of different public settings acknowledged that he will have a make a decision relatively soon. it's been our position here since over the summer that he will be giving all of the time and space that he needs to reach the decision. and they're emotionally strong enough and given the loss, but the supporters are urging them to get into the race and including the draft and they release the add which by the way features the speech at the democratic conversion, but a
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contrast and that they wanted to run and that biden asked them to pull and they they were on sacred ground. filing deadlines are looming thomas. the first one is october 29 for georgia. there's a lot of pressure for biden to make the decision soon. >> i am look at something from the washington post. they put out a four step time line if he wanted to get based on the meetings. they say that they could get there with four hours and 35 minutes and make the deadline for that podium that cnn has set ahead. who knows. we shall all see tonight. >> as a political junkie, we're all hoping that happens. >> it could add the drama. kristin walker at the white house. thanks so much. >> thanks. i want to go back to my colleagues and she is tracking your question on the vice president.
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francis, how are people feel something. >> yeah, you're talking about the drama, but the viewers do not agree. when we look at this do you want joe biden to attend debate, 75 percent say no they do not. 25 percent of the viewers say yes we have been watching that. that really has not changed 34u6 much. as we look at the draft a lot of people and a few minutes are voting more towards no and political party and you would think democrats and weighing in here and they're pretty much saying a couple of neutral votes and not changing much and we will continue to ask you do you want joe biden to continue and participate. not as a spectator, but a participator. >> thanks so much. we will talk again shortly. donald trump has lined up to host saturday night live on
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november 7th. it's his first time hosting the show since he did so in 2004. now he tweet it had announcement and saying that he is looking forward to it. campaign staff saying that they're excited about this. i want to bring in katie that follows the trump campaign and then a stand up comedian and then host on sirius. i want to start with katie. we saw the tweet, and we do have confirmation that this is all come together, and that donald trump will be come back and those that fired him from the apprentice is coming back? >> yeah, he hosted for the last time in 2004. it's a ten year break. he is going to come back and say that this is the highest rated show that snl has seen. it's not the first time that donald trump is appearing. not the first time that he has been impersonated.
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he started that in 1988. everybody from darryl and jason to phil hartman have done impressions of him. coming off to great laughs as you would imagine. the campaign says that they're very excited about this. he has done a great job of appearing on late night. jimmy fallon was a highlight and coming off of himself. being very coimmediate i can. he is a showman and entertain er. at times his speeches can feel a little bit like stand up comedy. the crowd is laughing and gets them going. it's a natural fit for them. you you have to wonder if he wants o were secretly wants a career in stand up comedy or a late night show. maybe he wants to get back in television. >> yeah, it's a huge thing for nbc during november sweeps when he is going to be there will. they're off to an epic start and they came out of the gate with i
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skit as donald trump. pete, so he had this opportunity in 04 when he was a part of the show as the host, and he quoted himself about being a ratings machine then. people will tune had in. there's a factor for that now and the political culture. he has sent himself in. do you see any problems for him messing with snl or that they're going to put heads and try to go get the best show possible? >> no, when what are the trump joc jokes. i don't read them. i feel that the writers can take the week off. say whatever you're going to say today and wear this. i mean the guy like katie said is an entertain er and a showman. there's a reason why they did not ask martin to host it yet.
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>> yet. we have a yet in there. >> katie, it was yesterday and you were at the labels event. there was a moment where a woman spoke to donald trump in the brief q and a. i want to remind everybody. take a look. >> if you become president will a woman make the same as a man, and do i get to choose what i do with my body? [ applause ] >> you will make the same if you do as good as job. i happen to be pro life. i am pro life. >> all right. so the hands on the hips and everything. some say that this was a plant. trump saying that it was done by the bush campaign. have you heard what they say about that? >> we have heard about that and this is an 18-year-old woman named lauren that's an intern for the bush campaign. she is interned for them, and that she was not a paid staffer.
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donald trump campaign says that she was a plant and planted there to try and take trump
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bush. thank you both and you were there to watch this go down at the event. thank you so much. in developing news and this is from butch invest gay. please supervisor me because i am driving super drunk right now. >> yeah, you want believe what you're witnessing. a girl broadcast her driving home and bragging about being drunk. how social media used police to help catch her. special olympics has almost five million athletes in 170 countries.
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today's debate is taking place in the battleground state of nevada. a sit that we want to president obama in 2012 with 52 percent of the votes. now current polling clinton taking the lead and sanders with 34 and joe biden having 12 percent and not nen the race. the rest of the field not registering. i am joined by the democratic party chair for the state, and we have been asking the viewers today and do you want them on that debate stage tonight? >> look i think in nevada we welcome any person that wants to get in the race and if the vice president wants to get in the debate, we're good with that. >> we have no confirmation on whether he wants to be there and throw the hat. your state and south carolina
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has been called the firewall. as we look at the lead there and then close the races are in ohio and new hampshire. how does she go to the lead state? >> well with, i would say that secretary clinton has been in nevada for a really long time. she has a great organizing effort and has gone around the whole state. senator sanders has the same operation here up and going and we're through months frout the caucus. >> what about the other folks? what does the state think of them. they're not register nothing the current polling? >> well with, i can tell you that governor omali was here a while ago and he has put staff in nevada and starting to build his operation here. the other two candidates will
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also i expect be coming to nevada. the debate is a good launching platform for them to move into the state and larger capacity. >> as we look at the right on this donald trump having a foot no hold and if donald trump wins the republican nomination, how can the nominee come babat that? >> well, we welcome any person to go against the candidate. we believe that we're going turn it blue come november and that he we will win the presidency once again. >> do you feel that there's a lack of eo i--
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>> we will continue to move that into the 2016 cycle. a lot of the people think that the election is this move. we're still a year out. >> yes, we are. we're still a year out. i have to the admit that i write 2016 on all of my checks because we talk about it so much. yes, i still write checks. thanks so much. this just crossing my desk. he is going to be watching tonight at the navel observatory. the vice president pohosting a high school reunion, and then he is watching at home. three candidates that are on the bottom of the poll. how well do people know them. they're outside here in new york to get man ton street reaction. can they put a face to a name? developing news to israel. three dead and 20 injured and the drastic measures being
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we're following a story and in the final report they say that a russian made war head exploded outside of the cockpit. this is an animation and that the missile was fired from eastern ukraine. they're not assigning birming be clash. 298 people were killed. john cox is an msnbc analyst and joins me now. john, i want to show everybody again and the animation and this is how they believe that all of this went down and the missile exploding. where is the investigation go from here who lost someone? >> well, i think that it's first important to understand that
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this report is the report of what happened. as far as the criminal part of it, that's the job of the prosecutors and while they may take a lot of this evidence, the job of the dutch investigator agency was to tell us what happened. they have done a good job with that. it's a violent in flight break up. the size of the missile and the size of it was huge accord to go the report. i think that the dutch investigators have done a good job and it's up to the prosecutors on who released the missile. >> so we know that the report mentioned that they were closing the air space and why would they not have done that? >> thomas, that's one thing that surprised me in the dutch report. there have been a number of aircraft that were safely in that. it was closed below 35,000 feet. the ukrainian officials as well
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as others did not per serve there was a threat to above 35,000 feet. they made the decision accordingly. i was surprise that had the dutch were as critical as they were. it sets us going forward that we're going to have to be more cautious and conservative when we're dealing with areas that they're open armed conflict to prevent a tragedy like this from happening again. >> this being the fieshnal repo we will see where it goes. nice to see you, sir. >> good to see you. still ahead i am join bid the sergeants and we're going look ahead to the challenges facing each of the candidates tonight.
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when age-related macular have degeneration, amd we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression. and everywhere i look... i'm reminded to stick to my plan. including preservision areds 2. my doctor said preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula that the national eye institute recommends to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd... after 15 years of clinical studies. preservision areds 2. because my eyes are everything. we're back to political news and donald trump stealing the show from the democratics on the
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day of their first debate with the announcement that he is going to host saturday night live coming up on november 7th. billy bush is live in la for us, and great to see you. this is a huge power play. we're supposed to be talking about the democrats today and now we talk about donald. >> once again he strikes. i am sure that he told today. how could it be that he came at this time. he said that it's going to be so boring that he is live tweeting throughout the whole thing. last night he hosted was april of 2004 and the are prentice launched in january 2004 and come ago came out in the opening monologue and walked out and
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said it's really great to be here at snl, but it's really great for snl that i am here. that was it from there, and here he goes again. no surprise. >> i don't want to get called to the front office, but the company and entertainment partied company over a public way as politicians that he made or aspiring politicians whether it was apprentice or miss universe. why would snl have him as a host? this does not happen over night. >> that's a good question. i don't want to get called to the front office, but ratings and financing have a lot to do
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with things. celebrity apprentice, he brings in 24 million people for the fox debate and the celebrity was topping out at 5 and a half. it's not the hit that they used to be. he calls into the today show and part of the news division. this is entertainment and now fallon and now snl. the point is that that part of it was not successful. might it not be again in the future if she does not drop out or get the nomination. i don't know. i am sure that someone would pick up the show. >> we know that nbc has moved on. arnold has signed on. >> yeah, by the way you a brilliant move, and it's a great call. his daughter was on my show yesterday. she thought that it was ter rev
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i can and the family having fun with it. >> all right. billy bush, great to see you. i will see you in the front office in new york. >> want to show you something. trump is everywhere, and it's my birthday today. here is what i got for my cake today. i don't know who gave me that or why, but i believe it's the donald holding me as a baby. >> you're being swaddled by the trump er. >> that's so nice. >> who made the cake. thank you you. >> i don't know. but i think that it's a great cake. happy birthday to you. i hope that it's a great year for you. >> 34. >> 34 and holding. ahead of tonight's democratic debate, we're getting a look at how front runner hillary clinton fairs, and it does not look bogood for the former secretary of the state. she is losing, but as they take the turn on the debate stage in
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prime time, what with must they do to remain a float or stand down. with that let's begin. one of two members of congress to endorse the senator the deputy campaign manager. it's great to see all of you, and i want to begin with you. we have seen a lighter side of hillary kwlin t hillary clinton lead to go t debate. i want to remind everybody of the podcast. take a listen. >> you're the first to see that i am not a human. i mean a man who should be named
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nameless, made me in his garage. >> that was off the cuff and they did make that she played on saturday night live and mesh that and give that to the american people to want? >> i think that's the real hillary t. hillary that i know is capable of being the one to tell the problems to and then creating the jokes and then at the same time talk about how do we work for the american people. i think what you're going to see tonight is that very human hillary clinton and going to take the moment to talk to millions of people for the agenda for the future.
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you're going to see and -- you will see hillary and the policy and then you're going to see hillary speaking of the issues and the agenda that they have to face. >> there's been a big one for sanders and he has been riding the wave for field the burn. that movement and congressman i want to play for you and what do you have to say on sunday on "meet the press." look at this. >> you know you said don't use socialist. i am a progressive. are you pushing back on that idea or embracing that? >> look. when one of you colleagues gets on the show, do you say are you a capitalist? >> no. are you? >> no. >> i know that he has your support, but can he win an election on that message?
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>> the think the message is beyond that. the message is there is the message that i think that this debate gives bernie an opportunity to do more people hear and see and that is to hole message that people should not lose sight of. >> we know that you're working very hard and in spite of that you struggle to break through to the campaign with the governor and however, there was a light er movement that caught fire of
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them in las vegas that circulated on twitter and you see them there reading as he is doing the blanks and he has the person person personal moments. are you in the campaign advising them to go after them. >> he is a great plank er. what we're advising him and who what he knows is to introduce himself. he has a great story to tell. he is the only person on the stage that does not just have progressive values, but put them into action. passing the dream acts and signing into law and marriage equality. i could go on for ever and ever here. he would want shy away from the contrasts. there are some that the american
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people should hear tonight. >> speaking of them, i want to ask you about this. clinton may have an issue of shifting and just last week she came out against the partnership and trade agreement and something that she had called the gold standard, and do you think that she is prepared from someone like sanders and martin? >> i know that she is prepared. what she can say is look at my record. i am consistent. i said that could be the gold standard and then we began to work on it. now that the deal is completed and i look at it, it does not live up to the standards that i have set. that's american jobs and economic well being. it's not good enough. if you look at hillary's record, she voted against the central american free trade agreement. she voted for some and against others, so i think that her record is consistent and clear and putting the interest of american working people first, and she will have a chance to
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explain that tonight. >> one other person that's looming -- >> thomas, can i jump in here. one thing that i want to say on the trade issue is that secretary clinton gave 45 speeches endorsing tpp and calling it the gold standard. i was talking to someone in the obama administration the other day and said that since she was involved, the deal is more progressive and not less. it's hard for her to say and go from saying that it's a gold standard to saying that it would want help workers. i think that's going to be the problem. it's driven by polls and principals. >> i am glad that someone is keeping track of that remark. i think if you go back and look and even at the speeches and that's just said were made before the deal and completed before it was filled in and talked about this and it's the direction that we need to go.
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remember hillary strongly believes in the economic state craft and reaching out so that it's strong and vital as the partnership. at the end of the day and bottom line, exactly what was in the deal and it does not have anything about the situation. >> yeah, i think hillary is taking the lead of where it's been. >> no, the issue is this. you know the position on the trade agreement and keystone and raising the minimum wage, investments and opportunity and education we're dismissed not too far ago. suddenly that's not leadership. as people adapt to the positions, as bernie said we're joining the fight. there's the hardest thing is politics is consistency. one thing is that bernie has
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done through his career and many times dismissed and they were wrong. now that message is being heard and gathering support. it's paying off and being translated into leadership and others are following and grate identi gratifying. >> one last question and can't give you anymore time. do you think that biden should get in the race? >> he should do what's best for him and his family. we all respect him and admire him. >> congressman? yes or no. >> it's his call. i think that everybody that's in has made that call. it's his call. >> liz, i anticipate that you can give me a one word answer? >> yes. >> okay. thank you liz. she thinks that biden should be in the race.
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yes, we expect to see a robust debate tonight whether joe biden is in it or not. now more on the conversations outside with the voters. last hour you asked them to describe them in three words and now a little visual help. >> yeah, name and word recognition and now face. i showed them these pictures of the candidates participating in the race to want and joe biden as well with the podium and that will remain empty. he can can beclair it sometime this month. we show them these images here and talk to a diverse crowd and the reaction is revealing. here is what happened when he saw the candidates. >> all right. hill kri hillary, that's my girl. >> sanders. >> bernie sanders. >> bernie sanders.
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>> omally. >> jim webb. >> not familiar? >> no. >> not familiar? >> no. >> lincoln chafee. >> i have heard of him before. >> joe biden. >> he has not declared his candidacy? >> joe biden. >> all right. so here is what we're talking about. overall the people that we talked ability these two guys you at home can you recognize these faces and do you know their names? they will be on the stage tonight? jim webb. they came out there and names did not register or faces. goes to show especially how that's reflected in the poll itself out there. that's the wild card and this
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could be a moment for martin to have them and the breakout moments. >> wasn't that interesting and liz smith telling us on the air that they think that biden should get in the race. we know that he is going to be watching to want and we have a programming note to pass on to 2016. we just learned this and coming up the republican debate respon sponsored and will take place at the university of houston. we will will be right back. mone♪ ♪ when you're sitting at the ta...♪ what? you get it? i get the gist, yeah. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.
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hour. we will bring you any new information from albany, oregon. we're following a story out of israel where a series of stabbing and shootings have left people dead. this is disturbing and this is attacks and police say that a palestinian rammed a car into a bus stop and started to stab people. one was shot and attacked he scene. nbc news special corr sp spontaneo hearing of the highways being closed. what do you expect them to do as a reaction to the receipt spike in the violence? >> well, it's a security meeting and that it's going do things like the curfew and it's going to increase the wave of blowing up and the pictures are
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disturbing. there was another attack when two guys got on a bus and they started to shot and stab people while on the bus. this is a wave of violence and it's spiking. it's approximate been going for on for a couple of weeks. >> we have been talking about this and 80 have died in attacks and 12 wounded. we have the attacks from today. why are we watching this? what's propelling this? >> well, don't forget 29 palestines killed. on the one hand there's a permanent question of frustration and hope and there's other things and a lot of incitement of the sense that the whole middle east is in a uproar and at home, we're not doing anything. we have got to do something and have our own problems. there's a lot happening at the same time. what it amounts to is a question of is this the third palestine
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uprising? my guess is that it's going to feeth er out. >> thank you so much for making the time for me. the book that martin has out now is called the war reporter. it's available on amazon. we're back after this. or ge!! what? wow... yeah! okay... guys, i'll be writing a new language for machines so planes, trains, even hospitals can work better. oh! sorry, i was trying to put it away... got it on the cake. so you're going to work on a train? not on a train...on "trains"! you're not gonna develop stuff anymore? no i am... do you know what ge is?
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♪ everything kids touch during cold and flu season sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. my psoriatic arthritis i'm caused joint pain.o golfer. just like my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and i was worried about joint damage. my doctor said joint pain from ra can be a sign of existing joint damage that could only get worse.
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look at that and the mets fans were on their feet last night as they won over the dodgers despielt the early lead, they were no match for the mets that were in the playoffs for the first time in nine years. there were trying to close out tonight in game four. setting out the game and awaiting the appeal hearing following the slide in game two. he broke the mets short stops leg. did you see this story.
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police in florida catching a dui suspect after using the app on her iphone to talk about her night and how she was driving drunk. police in lake land, florida say that she was using the app to live stream herself and her friends at a bar. shen te she continued to use that app as she drove home trun. social media users saw her hit a curve and called 911. guess what? they charged her with driving under the influence. all right everybody. thank you for your time. i will see you back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. eastern. it's at 7:00 p.m. eastern and kate snow is picking up the coverage next.
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good darks "i am cait" snow. hours away from the first democratic debate.
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how are clinton and sanders preparing? down by a war head. they release the final he pomom of that that killed 298 people. hollywood sexism and lighting up today and live from new york it's donald trump. he is hosting saturday night live. we will talk about that coming up. first it's about vegas. clinton and sanders making last minute preparations for the debate. today advisers and sanders offer mitchel a preview of their strategies heading in. >> bernie sanders is not a guy that does personal and negative politics. he will talk about the days agreements. i mean he says that he is happy that he decided to

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