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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  October 15, 2015 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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the book is keep moving and other tips and truths about aging, dick van dyke gets tonight's last word. thank you. >> what is this? >> it's a critic a teacher, critic a teacher vast right-wing conspiracy. let's play hardball. good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. one thing is certain in american politics this october before the presidential election. the republican party is putting all its eggs in one basket. that basket is called benghazi. to defeat hillary clinton with the candidates they have looks to be an extremely uphill task.
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none looks like they have the stuff to go the distance with her in a serious set of debates next fall. what they're hoping for obviously is a knockout this fall. for this, next thursday's benghazi hearing looms as the main chance to nail her. there is not a republican campaign, daddy warbucks or who won't be whooping it up for them to do just that. the problem is, of course, somebody always talks. that's exactly what's happened here. several republicans inside the organization of the party have begun to sing. senator amy klobuchar is a democratic senator in minnesota. they're saying the benghazi committee was designed to take down hillary clinton. it follows what kevin mccarthy recently said about that investigation. >> everybody thought hillary clinton was unbeatable, right? we've put together a benghazi special committee, a select committee. what are her numbers today? her numbers are dropping.
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why? because she is untrustable. but no one would have known any of that would -- >> that's something good. i give you credit for that. >> republican congressman richard hanna has come out in agreement with mccarthy's comment. here he is yesterday. >> kevin mccarthy blew himself up with the comment over the benghazi committee. which sometimes the biggest sin you can commit in d.c. is to tell the truth. i -- this may not be politically correct, but i think that there was a big part of this investigation that was designed to go after people. and you -- an individual, hillary clinton. this has been the longest investigation, longer than watergate. you'd like to expect more from a committee that's spent millions of dollars and tons of time. >> so they're talking -- even singing. we should know. we had a republican member of congress scheduled to defend the committee's word until an hour
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before we put the show together. he pulled out at the last minute. senator, this situation is strange because to use the mob expression, some are singing. they're singing. >> first of all, i have a lot of respect for congressman hanna. we serve on a committee together. i found him to be someone who speaks the truth and that's what he was doing there. it's no different than what congressman mccarthy said, although he kind of lost me at the word "untrustable," chris. i will say i think the debate showed all of us, the debate this week, hillary clinton had that opportunity to make her case, and she is going to testify in front of this group of people who have really been trying to do her in on this issue for years. and let's look at the facts here. a report came out, eight reports have come out, but the one i look at is the accountability report that basically made 29 recommendations of things that had to change.
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we know that in the recent history of this country since 1977 tragically over 60 diplomatic personnel have been killed across the world. it is a dangerous job. we also know that during the bush administration 12 international facilities of the u.s. were attacked. so sadly this has happened in the past and work is being done to make sure that we have priority rankings on more dangerous postings and that more work is done for security. and that is a result of benghazi. but to continue this when we know -- we know that there has been measures taken and to continue this attack on her, these two congressmen have called it as it is. and they're both republicans. >> in an interview with nbc's peter alexander republican congressman mike pompeo defended his committee's work in the wake of congressman hanna's comments. >> was this investigation designed to go after hillary clinton? >> that's absurd.
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it's false on its face. we haven't had an ambassador murdered since 1979. he was killed on her watch. and we have been fighting to get documents from her for an awfully long time. we discovered that there was this secret server that had materials related to libya and benghazi. no committee has had a chance to see that before. >> does she have the qualifications to be president? >> we have the obligation next thursday to ask her questions. >> you know, senator, this is what's weird about the two parties now. the democratic party used to be a big city party, would get rough with its politics. when we lost 3,000 people on 9/11, your party didn't spend 15 years for blaming george bush for leaving the door open or condoleezza rice. people know things happen. surprises do occur. not everybody is guilty when something goes wrong. ronald reagan, who is now a
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saint in the republican party, positioned our troops in a place the local troops. marines in lebanon called khameneiville. nobody spent the rest of our lives talking about it. isn't this just about nailing hillary because they can't beat her in a debate? after this week i think they're sure they can't. >> as you know chris, every time the tragedies happen we have oversight and extensive hearings. out of 9/11 came the 9/11 recommendations. it took years to get them put into law but they were put into law. at some point, once the recommendations are brought forth in a bipartisan, sane manner, you move on. they keep having these same hearings over and over again and we're finally starting to get words on the street from republicans themselves about what's going on here. i think the beauty of this debate was, first of all, of course, the civility we saw between our candidates and really the agreement when bernie sanders says, you know, enough of these emails, that we need to move on and talk about the issues facing real americans. >> you know, i think the real dishonesty that congressman pompeo who bailed out of coming
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on the show with us today, to say es's the only ambassador that's been kid. so many others have been killed. i have a long list. long before hillary clinton became secretary of state. it's what happens. the guys go into dangerous situations, they make the call. sometimes things break bad. gowdy defended the committee's work and threw it back at hanna. he also said mr. hanna and i talked about the committee and he raised neither questions about the scope or the approach of the committee. they're all starting to talk. congress klobuchar, do you think there is any worth to the benghazi committee? >> i think -- >> senator. >> of course there was worth -- thank you. of course it was worth to have oversight, but at this point, when you keep having the hearings, the same hearing over
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and over and secretary clinton has already testified before congress and the fact is she has agreed to do it again. she said she wanted a public hearing, and i think that's appropriate for the american people to evaluate it and for a lot of the 15 million people that tuned in to the debate this week, they were actually able to hear her calmly go through what happened, what happened with her emails, and where we need to go forward as a country. and that is just not what this committee's of coursed on. >> look at this ad that ran during the democratic debate from a group called stop hillary pac. >> dear hillary clinton. i would like to ask you why you ignore calls for help in benghazi and then four americans were murdered. i would like to know why you lied saying the attack was a response to an internet video. i would like to hear why you tried to silence the benghazi whistle blower. mrs. clinton, i can't. what difference does it make?
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>> ambassador stevens' mother herself was furious when she found out about that ad. she told the "washington post," if i could sue the ad maker i would. it's an insult to someone who is dead. i think it's a wrong use for the reputation of my son. the mother of cia contractor glen dougherty also killed during the attacks was equally horrified. she said, i am so upset to have my son actually talking from the grave saying don't vote for this person. he wasn't political. he would never have done something like this. senator last thought about how dirty this has gotten. >> i don't think you can get much lower than that, chris. one of the mothers said she wasn't political at all and she doesn't think of herself as a political person, but to do that without talking to these families? i am a former prosecutor. you don't do ads like that without talking to the victims' families. that is what they did here. they basically have these
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courageous americans talking from the grave, putting words in their mouth and horrifying their own mothers. i don't -- i just -- i don't know how much lower it can get than that. >> we're seeing that exactly. thank you so much. amy klobuchar of minnesota. jeremy peters, a political report from the "new york times." i want the facts here. do they have an agenda to find out anything? what are they looking for besides a fishing expedition. >> what they started out looking for was how to improve embassy security. the investigation veered off into the email use and that became easy for democrats to say, see, all you're doing is focusing on hillary clinton. the problem here, as you know, is republicans always take this too far. you look at that ad. it wasn't enough just to say she is untrustworthy. she left the people vulnerable. they had to say she was complicit in murder. >> the failure to requisition the amount of material to defend
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some facility that was vulnerable anyway. the implication seems to be all the time like it was with john kerry, the swift voting, that she let her friend die. she sat there at a party somewhere having a good time, i don't want to bother with this. in other words, the worst charge they make is the one they imply. >> it also doesn't seem like the most sophisticated political attack to be making. people will believe a lot of things about hillary clinton. they already believe she is not very trustworthy and maybe she is not looking out for their best interests. to say she's complicit in a murder is beyond the pale. >> the right loves it. >> they love it. how you convince anybody to see hillary in a different light after this -- >> they let her friend die. that's the argument they're making. hillary clinton has spoken up multiple times against the republican-led benghazi investigation.
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let's listen. >> now it's clear that this whole effort was set up for political partisan purposes, not to try to get to any useful end. this committee is basically an arm of the republican national committee. it is a partisan -- [ applause ] >> -- vehicle, as admitted by the house republican majority leader, mr. mccarthy, to drive down my poll numbers. big surprise. >> this committee was set up, as they have admitted, for the purpose of making a partisan political issue out of the deaths of four americans. i would have never done that. if i were president and there were republicans or democrats who were thinking about that, i would have done everything to shut it down. >> you know, i wish -- that's a pretty strong person right there, hillary clinton. i wish sometime maybe they won't give her the chance, just tell us exactly what you did from the time you heard those guys were in trouble over there. from the time you heard about it, every step you took until you gave up getting to them. just tell us the real-life -- i
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haven't heard that yet. they don't want it. that's too clear. she probably would do a good job of saying here is what happened. i got the call. i did this, this. this. i was told we couldn't get anything done, blah, blah, blah. we'd know the story. >> i don't know what the demeanor will be like in the hearing next week. i know republicans have been careful to try to not -- to reinforce this notion that is a partisan witch hunt. you have to imagine they'd dial it back a little bit. she excels in these settings. >> either she is mortally wounded because she didn't do her job or she did do her job and she should plank these guys, nail them. >> this is when the lawyer comes out in her and it's good. it's not for her being too legalistic and hedging. i'm not sure what the definition of is is like she and her husband are known to do. this is where it comes out, her tenacity. she could really give them a
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show. >> she should talk about the guy she knew, chris stevens. the guys on the committee never knew the guy. they didn't know him. make it human. that's the way to do it. by the way have the same guys who prepped her for the debate prep her for the hearing. she did a great job. one reason bernie sanders is doing so well is because he never misses the chance to slam the corrupting influences of the politics when they spend millions to prompt up the candidates it diminishes the rights of everyone watching right now. it's wrong and bernie nailed it. could a number of the weaker presidential candidates like chris christie, rand paul, lincoln chafee, be ready to bail at this point, get out of there? if you didn't stay up last night to catch me on late night with seth meyers, stick around. it was an interesting conversation. i said stuff i normally wouldn't say on "harball," including my attempt to stay serious.
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let me finish with how bernie sanders is right about the corrupting power of the crowd i call daddy warbucks out there. this is "harball."
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president obama announced today due to the tenuous situation on the ground in afghanistan the united states will keep 90,000 troops there eventually lowering to 5500 in 2017.
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>> the bottom line is, in key areas of the country, the security situation is still very fragile. and in some places there is risk of deterioration. afghanistan remains dangerous. 25 brave americans have given their lives there this year. i do not send you into harm's way lightly. it's the most solemn decision that i make. i know the wages of war and the wounded warriors i visit in the hospital and in the grief of gold star families. but as your commander in chief, i believe this mission is vital to our national security interests in preventing terrorist attacks against our citizens and our nation. >> last year president obama had planned on keeping just 1,000 troops as a security force at the u.s. embassy in the capital of kabul.
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one of bernie sanders's strongest lines at the debate was a call to action or a call to war about the daddy warbucks that donate huge amounts of money to political candidates and thereby control the system. >> as a result of this disastrous citizens united supreme court decision our campaign finance system is corrupt, and it's undermining american democracy. millionaires and billionaires are pouring unbelievable sums of money into the political process in order to fund super pacs and to elect candidates who represent their interests, not the interests of working people. >> last week the "new york times" reported that a tiny fraction of the american population, about 150 families, provide almost half of all the money raised by candidates so far this election season. according to the "times," 158 families along with companies they own or control contributed $176 million in the first phase of the campaign.
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not since before watergate have so few people and businesses provided so much early money in the campaign most through channels legalized through the supreme court's infamous citizens united decision five years ago. what are the 158 families getting out of it? why are they giving all the money if not to influence candidates. >> clarence page and willie brown, the farmer mayor of san francisco. thanks for coming on. the idea the casino magnate, flirts with the candidates, saying if you keep saying the right stuff with middle east politics, us wanting to go to war, keep saying that stuff with the iranian deal and the way you don't like it, the nuclear deal, i might give you money, like a hundred million bucks. he is doing it publicly so that everybody sees it. the candidate gets sucked into it. they see the big-money guy doling it out like daddy warbucks. yet the public except for bernie
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sanders, doesn't raise a peep. >> there is a reason why, chris. people are trying to get elected to public office, and they know that it takes a lot of money to buy time on television, to buy time on radio, to get the internet transactions, direct mail, robo balls. all those things cost a lot of money. the polling. they know they can't get the money from other than people who want to invest, people who want to give money. believe me, if you have been a politician and you've been a part of it, you know bernie sanders is telling the truth. you receive that money and you try to make sure the people who gave you that money will do it again. >> do it again. that's the key. "politico" reporting shell madison leaning towards supporting the little hawk marco rubio in 2016. the two men have apparently detailed policy discussions especially about international
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affairs in israel. the latter cause near and dear to the mogul. the new york magazine quoted someone who said the florida senator, marco rubio phones him over other week. rubio, says did you see the speech? did you see the florida statement on iran? what should i do? it's impressive. he's persistent. this is in the public. it's not in a whorehouse. >> you should remember the fuss made over the koch brothers. >> they should get a tax break. they buy a politician, pay less taxes. >> it's sobering to remember for all the bucks adelson poured into mitt romney's campaign he still lost. >> he poured a ton more into newt. he kept him alive through south carolina. it worked. >> the modern era of concern
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about campaign finance began with richard nixon and w. clement stone, the insurance magnate in chicago gave $1 million to nixon. this was the headline. a million dollars to one person. it had never been done before. after the watergate scandal broke, all the reforms came along. >> now they're gone. president obama is the first guy to break loose from the funding program. it was going on until 2008. he wanted to make more money on the stump. donald trump was asked about adelson's support of rubio. this is what he said. >> i'm self-funding. if sheldon gives to him, he'll have total control over rubio. that's the problem with the way the system works. whoever gives. you look at jeb. $125 million in the bank. rubio has money in the bank, not nearly as much. anybody that is given a lot of money by these people, they're totally controlled by the people.
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sheldon or whoever. koch. i could name them all. they're all friends of mine. i know them all. they have pretty much total control over the candidate. >> mayor brown, a billionaire saying don't trust the billionaire contributors because they'll buy the candidates. at least if you buy me, you got me. for whatever he's worth. you got donald trump. and you don't have a bunch of other hangers-on that own the guy. >> let me tell you -- >> how about that appeal. >> having been a politician for a very long time and now no longer a politician, i can tell you that i think trump is doing a disservice to all of us when he says there's total and complete control. let me tell you, chris, politicians are much smarter than that. they will do their best in most cases to make sure that they get money from those resources that they are already advocating on behalf of in the views that they have. whether they are the people who do the gun control or anti-gun control.
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whether it's pro abortion or anti-abortion. all of those are things that politicians regularly do. the politician who gets caught simply doing what somebody who contributed to him said "do" will lose his seat. >> okay. what was it phil burton or jesse unruh that said if you can't take their money, drink their booze, sleep with their women and vote against them in the morning you don't belong in this business? >> they were right. it was the let jesse marvin unruh. >> wonderful statement with american politics. you can't trust them even when you buy them. you said a word before this, mr. mayor. you made the point that they do want the money the next time. they may not be nice people. they know, if they don't make good on the money they got from daddy warbucks, they won't get it from them the next time. >> usually they don't attract the money unless there is an indication on the evaluation done by the donor that this
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individual is consistent with the donor's advocacy and with the donor's views. the donor who goes and talks to a politician and says i will give you money if you vote this way, that's a bribe. that's prosecutable. why did hillary clinton change her mind about the trade bill in the last week or two? >> i think she did so because she is more knowledgeable. she sees the implications and clearly organized labor and bernie is giving her the path. >> thank you very much for that deft response. thank you, mr. mayor. a real loyalist out there. thank you, clarence. i'm not only being sarcastic because i think i have my own thinking. up next. highlights from my visit to late night with seth meyers. this is "harball," the place for politics.
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everythieven the pizza.the nfl, get the new monster toppings pizza, just $12. and don't forget the pepsi. add knots for $5 more. better ingredients. better pizza. better football. papa john's. welcome back to "harball." great night last night with seth meyers on "late night," discuss the democratic debate. i accepted seth's challenge of
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reading fake headlines as a serious newsman in a segment he called gravitas. >> it's the life blood of a news anchor. we're going to see if you maintain yours as you read news stories you have never seen. you'll turn to a new camera for each story and read whatever is on the card with all the gravitas you can muster. are you up for the challenge? >> i am. >> your first camera is camera one. read the news story. >> tonight organizers at last night's democratic debate held an ex tra podium in case joe biden decided to appear. today the podium is embroiled in a sex scandal with the nearby ottoman. >> hillary clinton shows a 20 point lead over the democratic field and a 30 point lead over the jacksonville jaguars. >> camera two. >> according to a new poll 70%
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of americans now believe in climate change while the other 30% are seeking the republican presidential nomination. >> camera one. >> breaking news. researchers at oxford university found that edible bugs are a healthier source of protein than beef, or you can get the best of both worlds and eat at arby's. >> you're amazing! up next, the news signs some campaigns may be on their last legs. the hardball roundtable coming up next. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. .
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welcome back to "harball." last month we saw the first two casualties of 2016 presidential campaigning when rick perry and scott walker dropped out of the running. who among the current contenders with campaigns on life support is the next to hit the rip? rip chute for whatever. in chris christie's home state of new jersey he's plummeted to sixth place in jersey. 54% of jersey republicans think christie should end his campaign for president. rand paul took time out from
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campaigning in iowa to read and research google about his campaign. >> the third most popular question from google, is rand paul still running for president. i don't know. i wouldn't be doing this dumb ass live streaming if i weren't. yes, i am still running for president. get over it. >> the democrat, lincoln chafee went through a tough interview with cnn's wolf blitzer over his campaign's life expectancy. >> because of your distinguished career you'll wind up looking silly and you keep going on like this. at what point do you decide there are other things for me to do instead of a futile effort to try to get the democratic presidential nomination? >> it reaffirmed what i thought when i got into the race, the establishment doesn't want to hear an anti-war voice. the united states senator and a governor. the issues are important and i want to continue to raise them. >> at what point will you drop out?
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>> i'm in it as far as i continue to raise the issues. they're important. >> for more on the round table. john stanton, washington burrow chief for buzzfeed and susan milligan with u.s. news and world report. rand paul. what did he say? he's unhappy with the way life is going for him. >> he is unhappy. i'm not sure he was prepared for the rigors of this campaign. he doesn't have the loyal base his father had among libertarians. >> he said that. he's relying on them. >> the thing he has to worry about is the backlash in the home state of kentucky about trying to run for the senate and presidency at the same time. >> apparently he is raising money for the senate seat. he's pulling a joe lieberman here. >> it's not going over well. >> if he decided to play nice with the establishment, mitch mcconnell and all those guys. that alienated a lot of libertarians.
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he started to move back. got into fights with mcconnell right after the election in 2014. >> how do you get out? pull a rip cord and say i'm jumping out of the plane? >> light yourself on fire. >> you jump first and then pull the cord i think. >> when he's drilling the tax code, destroying the tax code and doing all these things to get attention, that's never an indication that your campaign is doing well. when you're peri scoping a day in the life. that's not an indication that you're doing well. >> what is periscoping. >> live streaming. >> will you teach me this sometime? chris christie. riding high. "morning joe" every hour or two. mr. east coast. mr. media lover, friend of the show and everybody. i thought he was great until he got caught into the sleaze problem of new jersey. >> right. >> which wasn't surprising but he did get caught in it. >> the other problem that he has
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is that his appeal for so long is that he was a straight-talking, no-nonsense kind of guy. but trump does that like on steroids. so he doesn't have the appeal as a guy who says what everybody else is thinking, so he is left with, you know, bridge-gate. >> if trump ever said none of your business, somebody would say, he's being polite tonight. he didn't say "you're ugly ". >> nothing like trump. >> the same problem he has with jeb and rubio, who are the two republicans that can say, i am a conservative. i've worked with democrats in the past. gotten things done in the senate or wherever. that's the space he wanted to straddle and he has nothing. he's been basically blocked out by those three candidates. his only saving grace is that he has a bunch of money. >> the one that didn't look good the other night was chafee. >> he didn't look strong. he was fumbling around. he is just a weak candidate. most people watching the debate -- people are like, who is lincoln chafee.
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>> i voted against glass-steagall, don't blame me. >> that was the worst answer i've ever heard in a debate. >> those who conferred linc on the hill felt this compassion. he is unable to lie. >> he is honest, you say. >> he doesn't have the dna that says spin this. he just doesn't. i actually thought jim webb looked the worst. i'm watching him and i thought, for his closing statement i thought he had a knife in his teeth. kill the man. you want to vote against me? >> the only guy on history to go on tv and say i killed a man. >> my favorite description of him is that he was on his way to the republican debate but made a wrong turn and ended up at the democratic debate. >> which one is the first to go? paul, christie or chafee. >> rand paul. >> chafee ends up bowing out. he won't have enough money for a bus ticket to wherever he has to get to. >> i agree. i think webb would be out before
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chafee. >> i respect him for having the nerve to run. i was wrong about a couple of these guys. i thought walker would be tough. i thought he had all the tickets. i thought rand paul had a uniquely strong following. he would always have 25 points in any contest. doesn't have it. donald trump and ben carson have threatened both of them to pull out of the next republican debate on the 28th hosted by cnbc unless their demands are met. they submitted a letter to cnbc saying their opposition to the debate criteria. we won't participate if it's longer than 120 minutes including commercials and doesn't include opening and closing statements. this isn't the first time trump has threatened to pull out of an interview or a debate. he has done it in the past when he doesn't think the reporting is fair. trump wants an opening and closing statement. i agree with him about the two hours.
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i do think this is, you know, unnecessary and long-distance running. >> yes. >> what about the opening statement? why does he want to stem wind at both ends. >> most people are not paying attention in the middle. he wants to make sure that he gets everybody who is tuning in at the beginning and anybody who came late joining to get his message in. i think he's been so short on stance substance that the prepared remarks play to his strength. he can prepare them ahead of time. >> when he was around he looked sort of like befuddled or like he was sweating and it was funny to watch him. seemed like he was getting shorter standing next to jeb bush who didn't do much in the last debate except be tall and stand there. >> it was interesting, i think hillary benefited from five guys on the stage and her. shape of the field in massachusetts. defines the winner. only woman.
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pretty smart. the cavalcade of candidates on the republican side wastes so much time, john. nobody wants to hear from huckabee. nobody wants to hear from jim gilmore. i think carly fiorina is fading. we'll see. >> it gets -- >> unless he takes another whack at her. that will probably put her back at the top. it engages her in the discussion. >> when political junkies like us are sitting in the third hour of the republican debate and exhausted and not paying attention to what they're saying, it's hard to justify. if you shorten it to two hours, nobody gets a good amount of time. >> you know what the print people do in the last hour? they go over their notes in the first two and try to get it together for the show they're about to do. >> it defines how the republican primary has become another entertainment show, reality show. trump is looking at it not so much as a candidate, as a guy who is programming the hours.
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>> i think the democrats did a good job. i was proud of the country. i think democrats should have been proud of that week. >> o'malley had the best closing statement for that reason. >> i think it's good for the other network to get an incredible audience for this. we're supposed to compete but i think it's good for america. up next, republicans fearing a tough general election fight look to take out, the word they love, hillary clinton with the benghazi thing. this is "harball," the place for politics. turns romantic why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include
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bounty. the long-lasting quicker picker upper. former u.s. house speaker dennis hastert will plead guilty in his federal hush money case. he was charged with lying to the fbi about bank withdrawals to allegedly compensate and conceal past misconduct to an unnamed individual. a trial date was debt or october 28th. a plea deal would allow him to avoid a trial. it's unclear whether he will serve time in prison. that's a big question. .
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back with our round table. republican congressman richard hanna delivered another blow to the credibility of the house select committee on benghazi yesterday saying it is designed to go after hillary clinton. according to a fox poll voters are split on whether the committee should call it quits. 46% said congress should continue and 50% say they should move on. if you look at the results by party, big surprise. clear partisan divide. 74% of republicans say the investigation should continue. 75% of democrats say congress should move on. so much for objective truth, i guess. with a major hollywood film on the benghazi attacks yet to be released two weeks before the iowa caucuses, the issue is not
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going away. titled "13 hours, the secret soldiers of benghazi" the script contains lines like this one delivered by a security contractor at the scene. quote, we got nobody backing us up here. nothing. if the movie trailer is any indication, it could prove damaging to clinton at a critical time for her campaign. here is a bit of it. >> the u.s. ambassador at risk. >> he is in his safe haven. you are not the first responders. you're the last resort. you will wait. >> i called for support. never came. >> susan milligan. i saw the trailer in a theater. i said, this is going to rile people up. >> it's going to rile people up who are already riled up about
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it. it's a terrible tragedy that happened. if you think hillary clinton is responsible, the movie will reaffirm that. we're back with our round table. the "hardball" round table. zerline, john and susan. and the ones that stayed home in 2012 may be able to get them angry enough to come back out no matter who your nominee ends up being. if you can keep the anger on that side over benghazi high, that is -- there's a much higher likelihood you're going to get those people to go out even if you get a moderate republican in the end. >> i just don't think this issue has potency any more politically because of the fact they've admitted multiple times this is politically motivated.
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i think that takes away some of the strength. as many times as she steps before congress, she's going to testify again but she was strong when she testified previously at the end of her tenure as secretary of state. so i think that all of the things coming to light, all of the information that we have now, it's been debunked and debunked and debunked and debunked. how many more times do we have to debunk this as a conspiracy, as the republicans have laid it out? >> unfortunately, i've spent years watching movies full of nonsense like the jfk movie, oliver stone, somehow this idiot, crazy man jim garrison was telling the truth, the new orleans d.a. it wasn't true at all. nixon had nothing to do with killing kennedy. johnson had nothing to do with it. yet a lot of kids come out of that movie theater with baseball caps on saying did you know nixon was involved in killing kennedy and so was johnson involved apparently. people do buy what they say at the movies. >> google wasn't as prevalent then as when the movie came out -- >> you're pulling that high-tech stuff on me. that's where you go. that's your rabbit hole. so people are going to check the facts. >> i think people are going to check the facts. people are going to watch her testify and she's going to be
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strong just like she was in the debate. i think the potency is not there. >> she still has that problem. there's still tens of thousands -- >> but not with independent voters who are going to swing the election. the people that care about benghazi don't like her. >> the fibers -- >> the left-hander, right-handers. >> the grassy knoll stuff. >> she doesn't have to talk about a vast right-wing conspiracy and have people make fun of her for. because they're doing it on alone. for a party doesn't believe in assisted suicide they're doing a good impression of it. they're looking ridiculous with their majority leader and another republican member and a former staffer saying basically -- >> isn't it great? democrats do have that. the tape is great, isn't it? once it exists. i mean, kevin mccarthy will always have that tape. as long as he lives. that tape will be sitting somewhere between here and mars somewhere and be retrievable and it will always say this thing was political. >> they're on defense. >> and they'll realize what was really going on. >> the tape is great. let's go to the tape. anyway, thank you, zerlina maxwell and john stanton of
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course and susan milligan, who i've known many years. what a great person. when we return, let me finish with how bernie sanders is right about the corrupting power of adelson and the koch brothers and the rest of the daddy warbucks out there. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. guys listen up!
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let me finish tonight with this. during the cold war the soviets said that american democracy was a sham, that our politics and our government were controlled by the rockefellers. what dare we say to that charge now? every time we pick up a
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newspaper, watch the news or have a conversation with someone it all comes down to who's paying for all this. the most powerful line in tuesday's debate was bernie sanders' attack on the corrupting power of the billionaires in american politics, elections and government. is there a person who doesn't know that big money's influencing our tax policies, our energy politics? our foreign policies. you'd have to be hibernating underground not to know of the koch brothers and their interests in oil and gas, of casino magnate sheldon adelson's determination to get a mideast hawk into the white house. we're all onto it. we know the system isn't on the level. we know we get one vote and the people like the koch brothers and shelley adelson get the equivalent of 100 million votes, the amount mr. casino gave to republicans the last election. do you think it doesn't matter when someone puts money in the pockets of supposedly upright presidential candidates? do you think over the table bribery in the hundreds of millions is less corrupting than the passion of envelopes in back rooms?
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how do we have any idea what the candidates' personal position on new energy source when's that candidate is getting bankrolled by the koch brothers in how do we have any idea what the best judgment of a candidate is on the mideast when their pockets are stuffed with sheldon adelson's casino wealth? we don't. we learned it in watergate, follow the money the guy said, follow the main. in politics it will tell you where the candidate is going to show up singing for his supper. on this baby bernie's right, dead right. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- more anti-immigrant ugliness. donald trump goes on the attack. >> listen to this. they're suggesting social security for illegal immigrants. hillary clinton blasts back. >> call people out when they say mexican immigrants are drug dealers and rapists. >> tonight my intervie


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