tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC October 19, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
fruit punch splashing tough guy feminist cross-country prankster art road trip in a converted donald trump campaign bus that in the world by a million miles. that does it for us tonight. good evening, lawrence. >> rachel, you know, in just a few minutes there might be a new best new thing in the world that you might want to stick around for. it's very important to you. i know it is. the "star wars" trailer is coming up tonight. we're going to show it right here on this show. >> my inner ewok is already there. >> i know how important it is to you. >> thank you, lawrence. >> stay right by your tv. >> okay. >> you do not want to miss this. >> bye. we also have more on the chaos in the house of representatives which took another turn today with one republican member of the house saying that if hillary clinton is elected president, then they are ready to impeach her on the first day.
>> this is the week of benghazi. >> secretary clinton set to testify before the house benghazi committee. >> credibility is the key thing right now. and they don't have much of it. >> brooks of alabama said if hillary clinton won the white house, she would immediately be subject to impeachment. >> mishandling of the unclassified documents that put american lives at risk, absolutely. >> i have told my own republican colleagues and friends, shut up talking about things that you don't know anything about. >> is joe biden in or is he out? >> we should know within the next 48 hours. >> this is his last chance. now or never. >> he understands the time and pressure he is under. >> if he gets into the race, it would be a shake-up, dramatic understatement, i think. >> it's donald trump's best pole numbers yet. >> i love polls. >> shows he has more support than ever before. >> let's have this election immediately. >> he is the worst nominee we could possibly think of. >> trump himself may be more closely connected to a super pac that is collecting big sums of
cash on his behalf than he's led on. >> this great dishonesty in the media, unbelievable. >> i don't have a super pac. i don't even have a backpack. i carry my stuff around loose in my arms like a professor. chaos in the republican-led house of representatives will probably not hurt house republicans in their next election. but it is bound to hurt the republican nominee for president. new "washington post"/abc news poll shows 61% of voters believe that the house republican majority is dysfunctional. if republican goff governance is dysfunctional then why would those voters want to hand the white house to a republican? in to that chaos this week steps hillary clinton as the star witness at the benghazi committee's public hearing on thursday. her appearance there has been heralded now by a total of three
republicans including majority leader kevin mccarthy saying that the benghazi committee's objective has been to harm hillary clinton's presidential campaign. republican congressman mo brooks raised the ante on clinton hysteria in the house of representatives by saying this. >> it's not about e-mails. it's about national security and how many lives she put at risk by violating all rules of law that are designed to protect america's top secret and classified information from malling into the hands of our geopolitical foes who then might use that information to result in the deaths of americans. >> let's talk about that. >> it's national security issue. in my judgment, with respect to hillary clinton, she will be in a you meek president if elected by the public next november because the day she's sworn in is the day she's subject to impeachment because she has committed high crimes and misdemeanors. >> after listening to a week of public and private pleading by republicans congressman paul
ryan is considering the house speaker job according to a cbs report. quote, ryan's conti dent says he will not horse trade with the house freedom caucus, a group of 40 or so deeply conservative members who have been demanding changes to house rules and other very specific promises for candidates for speaker in exchange for their support. ryan's confident says he is not going to negotiate for a job he has never sought and that he has a record of conservative leadership that should be clear to every member of the gop conference. a new nbc news/wall street poll out tonight asked primary voters how they feel about paul ryan as speaker. 63% say they are comfortable and positive. 28% say they have skeptical and uncertain, to put that in context the house of freedom caucus makes up only 16% of republican house members. the share of republican primary voters skeptical about a paul ryan speakership is larger than
the share of house republicans skeptical about that. here's what republican primary voters say they want from the next house speaker. 56% want the next speaker to stand up for principles. 40% want the next speaker to seek compromises. joining us now are charlie cook, editor and publisher of "the cook political report" and nbc news political analyst. also with us, kurt anderson host of "studio 360" and april ryan, white house correspondent and white house bureau chief for urban radio networks. that 61% number saying that house republicans are dysfunctional as manifest by their inability to select a speaker, do you know any polling precedent for that in the house? >> well, i find it very encouraging. it means that people are paying attention to the news because, you know, i think even a lot of
house republicans i know would tell you right now dysfunctional there. but, no, no, we've -- congress has always held in low regard. but, you know, we're at probably a peak period right now. >> steve kornacki spoke to mo brooks today about this impeachment idea that he has for the next president clinton, if we have one. let's listen to that. >> if she is elected president next year, do you anticipate republicans wouldn't take steps to impeach her as soon as she takes office? >> probably the answer is no. in as much as the president of the united states barack obama has also knowingly violated many laws, particularly with respect to immigration but you can name a number of others. and there have been no impeachment proceedings initiated against barack obama, nor has there been any kind of trial or conviction proceedings in the united states senate. so i would anticipate, keeping in mind the filing of articles of impeachment while as a legal process it is also a political process.
i suspect the house of representatives would not act even if someone is subject to impeachment because of the commission of high crimes and misdemeanors. >> april ryan, house republicans managed to find new levels of hysteria when talking about hillary clinton or president obama. >> well, you know, president obama was the subject or the target of a possible republican impeachment because, let's clear it up, because he allegedly had more executive orders than any other president. that was not true. and we understood that if that were to happen it would totally disenfranchise the republican party and it would cause such division in washington. so they decided not to do it. and how are you going to impeach a person who hasn't even had a chance to get in office? you know, you have to give her something. she has to give you something so you can in turn impeach herb. it really makes no sense at this point. i understand that they're upset. at least wait a while to see what she does if you want to i peach her.
>> kurt, it seems to me that, once again, democrats and in particular hillary clinton are so lucky by who their enemies are. hysterical kind of out of control statements. >> who can't act on them in any effective way as congressman brooks knows. congressman brooks, by the way, is a guy who not long ago became famous about the war on whites that the democratic party is waging and did not back down from that. it's extraordinary. here's a guy who, yes, came in in the tea party wave in 2010 but has been a district attorney, senior member of the alabama legislature. he is not just some local from down the street. he is theoretically a grown-up and saying things like that. we're going to impeach her on the first day of office which sounds like a joke. >> but it also, i think, is helpful to democrats, that this is the force that we're running against. we're running against this incredibly unreasonable force, house republicans. >> i think it is. but then you also see, and
you'll talk about -- we'll talk about the new nbc poll later, something like two-thirds of the republican voters prefer a trump or a carson or people on the mo brooks side of the fence. so, you know, yeah, it's bad for the republican party certainly in terms of that third of the republican party who is still in the realm of sanity and certainly for swing voters to the degree they exist. >> charlie cook, your reaction to the poll indicating that republican primary voters are more skeptical of a paul ryan speakership than the actual republican house membership is. >> well, i think -- i live and breathe by polls. but there are some poll questions that i tend to say, well, you know, i'm not sure -- i'm not sure that many -- i'm not sure that many people know who is the speaker now. so that, to me, i -- i kind of blow off that one to be perfectly on next.
>> but i would say though that there are some very bright talented members of the house in both parties. but then you've got some people that just say goofy stuff all the time. and quite frankly, mo brooks is one of those guys. you know, this isn't the first time he said something goofy. it's not the last time. you know, they're just sort of getting flies in both parties that say things. >> that's a perfect set-up for mo brooks saying something not goofy, which he actually said on this program last week. let's listen to this. i talked to him about the possibility of a compromise that could get his vote for paul ryan. let's listen to what he said about that. if the speaker candidate said to you, look, i will give you everything you want in process on issues, we will just have to agree to disagree. is that can kind of compromise you can live with, at least you have the process that you warrant so that your view on immigration or taxation or
whatever the issue is could possibly come to a vote in the committee with the new process? >> well, it's a weighing process but the short answer is yes. if we can make enough headway on process issues, that helps to offset the public policy issues. for example, with kevin mack car think, i had this kind of discussion. kevin mccarthy was in large part in agreement of what i said on the processing side. i probably would have vote with him on the house floor despite some disagreements. >> april ryan, there's the opening for compromise with the freedom caucus in the house of representatives. i got to say, their demands on process are not completely unreasonable. they want things to be able to come to a vote. they don't want the leadership to control everything that comes to the floor and block them out of amendments and block democrats out of amendments, by the way. so he's just saying, look, they don't have to actually agree with us on policy. they just have to open up the legislative process in the house. >> yeah, but right now i'm
wondering how much leverage the freedom caucus actually has with anything. one of the reasons why i say that is because paul ryan who is far conservative, he's not trying to even give them what they want in possible discussions with them to possibly be speaker of the house. so right now i think -- i think the republican party is trying to pull itself together. i really don't think the freedom caucus or the tea party, as they were formally know, really has too much leverage right now. this is just an outside observer who is a journalist and listening to what's going on in washington. but i think really the ball is in the court of paul ryan who's playing it very well right now and i think the freedom caucus better watch out because they don't look like they have a lot of leverage because everyone is trying to bring them in and distance themselves somewhat from them. >> charlie cook, what are the odds that john boehner remains speaker for at least the rest of this year? >> i don't think he will stay for the rest of the year but i would completely disagree with april. >> oh.
>> first of all, i disagree with part of your premise that, you know, one of these process things they're talking about is the hastert rule which basically means that, you know, plurality rule in the house of representatives. and i think that the mainstream republicans, you know, would not go along with that. but the thing is, without the, say, 35 to 40 freedom caucus or what "wall street journal" calls refusenics, republican can't get to 218. and so they don't become speaker. personally i think that ryan is not going to do it unless he can do it under his own terms. quite frankly, i don't think they're going to come to terms with him. i think there's a very good chance that we're going to have a choice, republicans will have a choice between chaos in a coalition and that you could see them at some point reaching over and recruiting enough democrats to get them up to 218. >> no.
chaos is right though. >> no chance of that happening. >> chaos is right. the freedom party -- i'm going to keep calling them the tea party. they are some of the reason for the implosion within the republican party. so i'm hearing that a large portion of the freedom party will go for paul ryan. everybody is trying to bring this new sense of unity and trying to make it look good right now instead of the way it's looking currently. >> yeah. and john boehner has said that he will stay until they get another speaker. and that could be -- that could be a while. april ryan, thank you very much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. coming up, jeb bush is hitting some new lows in a nbc poll and he is actually cutting campaign spending including cutting some of the staff on that campaign. that's always a bad sign. and donald trump says he doesn't have a super pac. he would never use that kind of money, except he does have a super pac and he is using that kind of money. and the "star wars" trailer, the new "star wars" trailer. we will have it for you.
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do you remember seeing the first trailer for the first "star wars" movie? >> i don't think they had trailers back then. >> they did. they did. >> i certainly remember the seeing the first "star wars" movie as a young man, 22-year-old. and being absolutely blown away by it. it amazes me, completely amazes me that 38 years later it's still a big deal and we are still caring. and i find myself caring about this one, partly because it is bringing back the actor, the elderly actors who were in the original. >> i remember exactly what theater i was in when i saw the first trailer for the first "star wars" movie. i will tell you my reaction to that first trailer later in the show when we show you the new trailer. we'll be right back. why do so many people choose aleve?
for minor arthritis pain. plus, just two aleve can last all day. you'd need 6 tylenol arthritis to do that. aleve. all day strong. new nbc/"wall street journal" poll finds 25% republican primary voters say they would vote for donald trump. that's up four points from last month's poll. ben carson ends in second place with 22%. marco rubio in third place with 13%. republican primary voters are asked who they could imagine themselves voting for, 74% pick ben carson. only 20% say they could not support ben carson. 65% say they could support florida senator marco rubio. donald trump comes in third with 59% saying they could support him. and 36% saying they could not support him. tonight democrats are still awaiting decision from vice president joe biden. multiple sources tell nbc news
his decision could come sometime this week. a new monmouth poll, shows hillary clinton with 48%, bernie sanders with 21%. without biden the poll, hillary clinton gets 57% and bernie sanders gets 24%. joining us now, tim pawlenty who also ran for president in 2012. he is now the ceo of the financial services round-table. and back with us, charlie cook and kurt anderson. tim pawlenty, this new republican poll shows a little bit of movement for donald trump within the margin of error. seems to have stabilized within the mid 20s here. what do you make of that poll and what do you see coming in the next -- in the next couple of polls? is it just going to hold in this plateau for trump at the top? >> lawrence, i think those who predicted a trump dissipation, you know, those prediction were premature.
he's holding, maybe growing a little president i think donald trump's support at this level is a placeholder or proxy for the tea party, plus an increment for entertainment. that's probably not a keeling in the mid high 20s. he's going tv to carve out support from somebody else and that's going to require the field to collapse and get some other candidates out of the race and vie for other candidate support that's going have to drop out eventually. >> charlie cook, your reading of the polls on the republican side first. >> i think that's absolutely right. and my colleague at national journal ron brownstein had a good piece out today saying that what trump has done is basically consolidated the blue collar republican vote. the noncollege educated republican vote, while the other is split all over the rest of the field. and i think that's -- i think ron nailed it on that. and carson has got a little stronger with evangelicals. i think -- but the rest of the republican vote is split all
over. i agree with governor pawlenty, i think that trump is sort of pretty much topped out. it's all margin of error stuff. it's a lot of other polls he's actually dropped down a couple of points. i think he's probably leveled off. >> bill o'reilly tonight is you is jesting that the republicans may not find a winner in this field. let's listen to the new o'reilly scenario. >> it is entirely possible that no republican contender will lock things up in the early primaries. if that's the case, the gop could turn to mitt romney. the governor received more than 59 million votes last time around. is well-known, has establishment support. something to consider. >> kurt, there's bill o'reilly, friend of donald trump, by the way, suggesting that there might have to be an alternative to trump. >> well, you know, we can talk about, as we have talked about now for four months and counting, oh, he's going to top out. he's going to top out.
it's over. it's a summer fling. maybe the experts are right and charlie and mr. pawlenty are right that 25% is it. we'll see. but the question is then, who is the person who gets -- picks up all the little 2%, 1%, 3%s and amasses it? i have a hard time seeing that. as much as i love to wish trump there in part of my desire for him to stay in the race is sheer wishfulness that he will stay, i -- i mean, tell me why he won't win, for instance, iowa or iowa/new hampshire. >> tim pawlenty, let's go to that. if donald trump is not going to stay out there at the front end of the polls and actually have that kind of performance in all of the states, who does step in there? to pick up on the o'reilly scenario of a mitt romney or who in this i'd if steps in there if it's not trump?
>> i think, lawrence, in my view it goes like this. if you accept the premise that trump is basically a placeholder for tea party plus an increment for entertainment and populism and carson is a placeholder for mostly faith base holders, if they dissipate, those two blocks of voters are going to look to one of two candidates. ed the cruz, if they look at purity. if they factor in electability, i think a hybrid candidate that could touch all of the buttons, all of the bases here is marco rubio. acceptable to conservatives. maybe not the tea party's first choice but certainly within range to be acceptable. and acceptable to faith-based voters. he's got a lot of upside if those two current leaders begin to dissipate and implode. >> charlie cook, jeb bush, let's not forget him, once the front-runner tied with ted cruz basically in this nbc poll at 8%. cruz is at 9%. >> i think you're going to see if governor bush doesn't get
some kind of momentum going in the next two or three weeks, i think you're going see his donors start to really, really freak out. that you're seeing a lot of sort of an uptick of interest on the more conventional establishment side in rubio. i agree with governor pawlenty, i think that ted cruz is sort of the guy to watch on the more exotic side of the republican party in terms of sort of polling together that outsider angry vote that right now is going to trump. and a certain amount of the carson as well. i us a expect that we're going to see cruz sort of on the exotic side and rubio most likely, although i wouldn't count bush completely out yet but he's got to get something going quick. up next, donald trump says he is funding his own campaign, doesn't need a super pac, none of that stuff, except he does have a super pac.
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i don't want anybody's money. they form all of these pacs. people pour money into pacs. i don't want them. don't support them. don't support them. i think i have like six pacs where people, i saw on television the other day. actually two nice young guys, they did a pac. i think it was called "the art of the deal pac." nice guys. i think it's probably fine. but i don't know who they are. and they form a pac and maybe
they will get money and they willing out and take ads. the whole thing is so ridiculous. it's ridiculous. >> that was donald trump earlier today trying to deal with a story in the "washington post." he was in anderson, south carolina. a new article in the "washington post" says trump is a lot closer to big super pac money than he allows you to believe. the article says trump has close ties to the make america great again pac. according to the "washington post" the article says as he drew close to announcing his candidacy, trump talked privately with friends and advisers about the benefits of having an allied super pac to help cover expenses. he and his aides were also said to have been worried that unscrupulous individuals would create scam pacs that would take advantage of trump supporters. and they are said to have talked about the need to have a reputable entity in place. trump's campaign manager told
"the washington post" we don't have a, quote, unquote, designated super pac that we still people to give money to. in a later interview with "the washington post" he threatened to sue p paper if the paper reported that trump had given the make america great again super pac the go ahead. back with us, charlie cook, kurt anderson, and tim pawlenty. kurt, in this article, a great piece. he claims he does not know mike saltti who runs the super pac. then he has to admit, yes, i do know him. absolutely. they work together. it's a great piece by "the washington post." and it completely rips apart this idea that trump has nothing to do with this kind of money. >> and i could be wrong but if -- as a betting man i will bet that it has no affect on his support. if saying that, you know, john mccain is not a war hero and the litany of things he said has done nothing to slow his momentum, yes, this goes to the
core of who he supposedly is why we supposedly those of white house love him love him, because he's independent and doesn't need anybody's money. but a fib out of donald trump? and this only counts in my book as a fib by his campaign manager, i don't see it doing him any political harm. >> tim pawlenty, this is one of the central pillars of the trump candidacy. i don't need anybody else's money. i don't need a super pac. i don't need any of that. it turns out he does. >> well, the facts kind of matter here, lawrence. based on the clips you showed and i had a quick chance to look at the article. you know, it's unclear for sure exactly what the connections are. if there are connections and instigated this and they are promoting it then it look duplicity. if somebody is going to try to create scam trump pacs because there's a commercialization of the pac world now. reputable one that has some professionalism or direct
authority to do what trump wants it to do or within the boundaries of the law rather than having a bunch of scammers out there taking advantage of his donors. >> charlie cook, your reaction to the super pac. >> i agreed with both kurt and governor pawlenty. number one, trump's campaign is not about money. and if, you know, basically as long as the airplane's up in the air and somebody can schedule events, that's all his campaign runs on. if there have been any tv ads or anything, i haven't seen them yet. to me, number one, this isn't that important because his campaign is not about money. i think governor pawlenty right -- kurt's right that his supporters, this is a process story. they don't care. this isn't -- this will not affect trump one bit. and i'm not a huge donald trump fan but i think this is a nothing burger story. >> kurt, it should give him a difficult question at the next debate. >> it should give him a difficult question.
and we know how he handles difficult questions that involve explanations. i just wanted a, you know, make it legit. i didn't -- i'm not working with them. he'll just blow it off and people go, yeah, whatever. >> yeah. and tim pawlenty, the -- the trump phenomenon within the republican party, how much do you see it infecting an overall image of the republican party with the house republicans now having that image of chaos with 61% of the voters? do you see a connection between these things, the presidential campaign and how it might affect whoever the republican presidential nominee is next year? >> well, you know, you keep talking about the difficulties within the republican party but the facts are the republicans control the house and probably will after this next election. they control senate and probably will after the next election. and their leading candidates for election in swing states and nationally are tied are beating hillary clinton.
so things are not so bad at the moment notwithstanding the dysfunction in washington, d.c. i think trump by the way is trying to trim his sales a little bit and clean up his act a little bit because he realizes he might have a shot at this and if he doesn't, you know, do death by implosion on his own, political death by implosion on his own, he may try to behave a little better and try to reach out and be more acceptable to some of the establishment types in an earnest bid to become the nominee. the could get some upside out of that. >> charlie cook, what are the other republican super pacs waiting for in terms of attack ads on donald trump? why are they being so patient? >> well, first of all, i think he's going after a different pool of voters than the bushes, rubios, kasichs. it's a different group of republican voter, more conventional voters. i think ted cruz is buying his time, a he want to pick up the pieces when, assuming that trump
and carson start to -- start to fade as the primaries and caucuses arrive. so i don't think it's necessarily been in any candidate's interest to spend money on knocking him down when they need to be building themselves up. >> charlie cook, tim pawlenty, thanks for joining us. i really appreciate it. coming up, dennis ross will join us to discuss the deteriorating situation in israel. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding
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jibo, how are you doing? i'm great! every moment is our moment. are you enjoying this? it's been such a whirlwind. i want to get to know people and understand their ideas about everything. so you can too. we have a longstanding, extremely close, very important relationship with respect to israel security. we also share a global interest in seeing the region find a way forward to avoid this kind of confrontation and senseless loss of life. so it is important to have that kind of discussion at the same time. >> secretary of state john kerry will hold meetings with most israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and palestinian authority mahmoud abbas. this week they will discuss the recent wave of violence that has killed at least 42 palestinians
and 8 israelis. yesterday 19-year-old israeli sergeant levi was killed. and 11 others injured. in a shooting at a bus station in beersheeba, in southern israel. the shooter that was killed by police was identified today as a 21-year-old veteran arab who is an israeli citizen. eritrean national in his 20s. he was also killed. police said a security guard mistook zarum for an attacker and shot him. zarum was beaten by a mob and the beating was captured on graphic cellphone video and then posted online. today israeli police say they have conducting an investigation into the incident and israel prime minister benjamin netanyahu said we are a lou abiding state. no one should take the law into their own hands. joining us now is am boss door dennis ross, follow at the washington institute for east
policy and former special assistant to president, author of the new book "doomed to succeed, the u.s./israel relationship, from truman to obama." am boss door ross, if you were advising the president tonight, what would you tell him and what would your advice to secretary kerry in mismeetings this week? >> i think in his separate meetings with two sides i think he would focus on what can we do immediately to somehow calm the atmosphere, what can we do immediately to correct what are some of the methodologies that are out there and then i would try to bring together, i understand netanyahu, with mahmoud abbas, and with king abdullah of jordan in amman. i think it would be easier to get him to go and take part in that. and i would want the meeting to come out with a statement where they're all present, where they would be an unmistakable clarity
on there being no change in the status quo on the zarif or temple mount. one of the things that has spread like wildfire that has gone viral and a lot of the palestinian social media has been at the israelis intend to change or share the mosque and create and treat it as if it's like the tomb of abraham, abraham mosque, and that has taken on a life of its own. many of those who are carrying out one of these very intimate acts of terror, stabbings, are claiming that they're doing it for protecting the mosque. so somehow you have to transform what is a methodology and make it clear what is not the case. in this particular, where we are right now, we have to find a way to get this image transformed so that you begin, i think, to staunch the flow of those who feel that they're going to go commit an act of terror. >> in your experience in dealing
with the parties, do you think it's possible to get a cross-cultural agreement there on these methodology issues, on basically on the truth, literally the truth of what happened yesterday or the truth of what happens in the next event there? >> well, i think you're putting your finger on something that is essential to understanding where we are today. i have worried for the last several years, even when there was an effort to produce negotiations, that among the two publics there was an increasing degree of disbelief. when there's an increasing degree of disbelief about the other there is a tendency to believe the worse about the other and that's what we're seeing. when you have a methodology take root like we're seeing now in jerusalem, which is always the last thing you want to see become the focal point, then it becomes a religious conflict. it's very hard to turn that around. you have to start. one of the ways to start is by having the israeli prime
minister appear with the palestinian prime minister and the leader of jordan with the secretary of state and they all can make a collective statement that spells out nothing is going to change there. and then it can be repeated. it has more of an aura of credibility if you have arabs and israelis together. >> what do you expect to come of president obama's meeting with benjamin netanyahu? >> i think most of it will be an effort to mend fences. clearly the relationship is not a great relationship. you know, in my book one of the things i point out is we've had a number of previous circumstances or case where's american presidents and israeli prime ministers did not get along so well. there were always ways to find a fashion to improve things. almost every time when you had a previous episode there was a tendency to basically shape the
relationship in a more positive direction. and partly it stems from the reality that israel and the united states share values, they share interests, they're threatened by the same forces. when you look at israel today even with the problems that we're seeing right now, when you compare it to the rest of the region, the rest of the region is going to go through the next -- for the next 10 to 20 years a fundamental struggle over what is identity and who defines it between tribe and sect and clan. we're seeing a threat to the state system. when you compare israel to that what you see is that israel really stands apart and it's one of the reasons that i think the relationship is basically on a sound footing and it will, i think, this meeting on november 9th will reflect both sides wanting to find ways to reduce the tensions, differences between us, particularly in the aftermath of the deal with iran. we both have an interest, i think, at this point in showing that there is no wide gap between us if you're going to enhance deterrence of iran,
particularly in the region, i think we're moving the image of difference between the united states and israel becomes even more important. >> ambassador dennis ross, the book is" doomed to succeed, the u.s./israel relationship." up next, the wait is, well, for some people it's already over. we have the movie trailer from the next "star wars." we're going to show it to you. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? (vo) wit runs on optimism.un on?
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i've got nothing to fight for. >> nothing will stand many our way. i will finish what you started. >> joining the discussion now abraham reeseman, editor at "new york" magazine and, all right, so here's my story about seeing the very fist trailer for the very first "star wars" which is how i pronounced that in those days in dorchester. i see that trailer and i say to my friend, no one -- this is horrible. no one is going to go see this, no one. which is why i'm not a movie executive. you guys know much more about this than i do. talk to each other about this. abraham, what is happening here? what is the importance of this
movie because i'm not one who gets it. >> well, you know, this trailer just debuted on monday night football as the halftime show. for somebody who grew up with "star wars" at least feeling like a niche interest and being managed by a studio that put out the horrible prequel, trilogy and didn't know how to market this gold mine that it had, it's insane to see the totalitarian precision that disney has in the way that they dribble out information in teeny tiny bits of footage for this film. like from an industry standpoint, this is going to be the gold standard for how you work people into a frenzy. i don't know how they do it. >> they've also -- why i am interested, more interested i've been in the last seven or eight to see is they hired a very good, very smart director in j.j. abrams, to do this version. also, it's a version that has the now elderly people that we saw in 1977 starring in it back. so certainly that will have the affect of making those of us who
are old feel even older. but it adds a sort of adventurous to this whole thing, this is from the beginning, it's tied into this whole thing. it's as though sean connery would appear in "james bond." >> is this important film making? >> it's important cultural artifact. it's important -- people of a certain age like abraham who were born after it first existed for whom it was this part of the culture that might as well have always existed, right, when you first saw it at 5 or 6. >> exist outside of time. there's no earth in it. there's no history of the united states. it has nothing to do with anything other than itself. so it was -- >> which is why it doesn't interest me in the least. >> right. sure. >> although there are those who argue that of course it came out right before ronald reagan was elected president and served the idea --
>> alliances secretly conservative. >> there's not. and my belief is that the force was a perfect -- without the force, "star wars" never would have taken off. the force, this literal -- >> religious -- >> literally that phrase, that term? >> no, the whole idea that it's this spiritual power that you can somehow have, it was religious but not christian. it was new age. the new age thing. >> very new age. >> started in 1977. that's why it has been successful. plus the special effects. >> what's your explanation for the giganticism of it all and the culture? >> i think not to draw too much attention to my own generation but i think kurt is right we came up with this period where "star wars" just existed. it was, you know, an "a" priority thing. the idea that it's being managed well and created by somebody who is of that second generation, who is not george lucas, who is a fan like us, i don't know. it has a way of playing with the imagination.
it feels weird to be manipulated that much by a major corporation but they're doing it very, very well. >> i won't be getting in anyone's way in the movie lines to get into the theater. >> you don't want to pay $250 for my ticket? >> they're scalping them already for like a thousand bucks. crazy. thank you both for joining us. chris hayes is up next. >> he kept us safe. no he didn't. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. it was warm in the sun today, but the strong chill in the shade reminds us that winter is coming and soon will be halloween and thanksgiving and christmas and new year's. by then we will be in the thick of picking a president. what strikes me about the campaign so far is it took a political newcomer, donald trump to say something wal