tv Lockup Raw MSNBC October 23, 2015 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
"lockup: raw." unlike prison, where all the inmates are convicted and serving sentences, most jail inmates are only accused of crimes and are awaiting trial at the resolution of their cases. but combined, they total about 2.2 million americans behind bars. more than any other nation on earth. >> the major goal of "lockup" is to tell the stories of this massive population. but sometimes to do so, it's like being in a carnival funhouse where the mirrors distort reality. one of the biggest challenges for our producers is unraveling the truth. >> let's go! >> story time. >> in tulsa, oklahoma, our field
team was anxious to find out the truth about an inmate who had recently been booked into the county jail. the problem was, they learned of his presence on day 52 of a 54-day-long shoot. >> we were on our second-to-last day of filming in tulsa, and we heard about an inmate who was there, who could possibly have murdered 21 people. >> do you have the log on you? >> we generally don't start talking to somebody for the first time with only two days left to shoot. it just doesn't generally give us the amount of time to build the story that we need. but it's not common that we come across somebody that could be an alleged serial killer. >> he's actually security level one. i've never had a level one since i've been assigned here. level one is for -- in my terms, no other way to put it, they are a true bad guy. >> 27-year-old chance clagett had recently been arrested for allegedly beating and choking a girlfriend. when the police arrived, the victim told him during the attack, clagett said he would kill her, just as he had done to 21 others.
he would later plead not guilty at his arraignment. >> so now the authorities want to try to match his dna with unsolved homicides. at that point, even though we had wrapped up all our stories, we thought, well, we have to see if there's any validity to this, if, in fact, he is a serial killer. >> okay. if i were a judge and i was asking for your plea, what would you tell me? >> mercy, lord. mercy. i don't know -- i don't know what happened. alcohol. >> what did they say you did? >> uh, okay. my accuser was a friend of mine. she said my voice completely changed, my eyes rolled into the back of my head and held her down, by her words, her throat, and said these words to her, apparently, that my name is such and such, and i have killed 21
different people, all over this country and you're going to be my 22nd victim. i do not believe that was me. i'm inclined to believe that i very well may have opened myself up to something that's not understood by modern science and something of biblical proportions. i was having episodes to where i would have no conscious for lapses of time. the only thing i could explain was demonic possession. >> we hear about a lot of people who black out and commit crimes. but this man was telling us that he was possessed by demons and darkness. that's not something we hear all the time. >> i cannot stand before god and say that i know for a fact, 100%, that my hands and my body wasn't used in the capacity that they said it was. >> chance clagett was a very challenging interview. it was a very long interview. everybody has a different way of telling their story.
and you kind of have to go with that, so people feel comfortable when they're talking to you on camera. but he would jump time periods, he was all over the place. >> and now you're sitting here. >> listen, let me finish, please. i would appreciate it. >> he had a lot of religious overtones. >> you know king david? >> who? >> king david? >> yes. i'm sorry. >> he was guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. >> he also seemed to liken himself to great figures of the old testament, as well as more current historical figures. >> jfk was a man with a -- he was nothing but extreme. they called him eccentric. >> but all people of power, which i thought was pretty intriguing. and in the course of, i think it was almost three hours of an interview, he revealed enough to make me think, god, there's a potential here that this alleged statement he made to this victim could be true. he was very open about the violence in his past. he was convicted of a crime that
was just so grotesque, it was like, you know, quentin tarantino movie. >> that crime occurred in alaska. the victim was a woman. clagett and three others believed to be a police informant, he nearly beat her to death. we warn you, his description is graphic and disturbing. >> at that point in my life, being a young man, i had been in several physical altercations and i knew what i was capable of. i knew i could take down a grown man, no problem. and this victim would not go out. and it got really, really, really messy very quickly and there was blood everywhere. i had seen a lot of blood in my life and i had never seen that much blood and seen a person still moving, still conscious. during the struggle, i had -- while i was trying to strangle this person, she reached back and tried to gouge out my eye. and cause and effect, i guess, she tried to gouge out my eye, so i just gouged out hers.
i did a horrible, atrocious act against another human being. and i was convicted of attempted murder and i was given an eight-year sentence for it. >> clagett served five years in an alaska state prison before he was released on parole. >> and god knows the all my sins. i've done far worse things than that. >> what did you do? >> let's just say this, i was pistol happy. i liked hurting -- i liked hurting men. i liked embarrassing them. i liked beating 'em down. i took pleasure in other people's pain. i became a bit of a sadist. coming up -- >> twice, thank you. you're starting to offend me, but, yes, twice i gave my life to god. >> chance clagett grows angry as our field producer seeks the truth. and -- >> the people across from me, they asked me what i did to get
in here. and i just told them, me and my man got into a fight. i won't ever tell anyone what i did. >> a female inmate lies to protect herself in jail. ♪ i bugrowing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet?
chance clagett was in the tulsa county jail for allegedly beating and choking a girlfriend. she told police that he had threatened to kill her, just as he had done to 21 others. clagett had already been to prison for brutally beating another woman. and he had made it clear he had hurt others as well. >> i took pleasure in other people's pain. i became a bit of a sadist. >> but we wanted to know if he really was a serial killer. >> did you have a juvenile record? >> no. >> never got caught? >> no.
>> never got caught? >> nope. >> then he revealed something that really made me think -- >> oh, my god, i'm a monster, apparently. 9 years old, i mean, i hurt animals and stuff like that. i don't know, man, i looked at everything with a sense of separation. >> but the other thing that i keyed on was one of the jobs he talked about. >> i became a carny. not in the sense that everybody else was, but, yeah, i traveled with the carnival. >> because, in the course of the crime that he was in jail for, he said to his victim, i've killed 21 people all over the country, you're going to be the 22nd. >> i know this. i saw the east coast, the west coast, the southernmost part of the united states and the northernmost part of the united states and pretty much all those in between. >> so you're saying you're having blackouts. you're saying at times you think you could be possessed, by your own words? >> i'm not saying that i think this. i'm saying, this is the counsel that was given to me. this is me looking for answers and me going to the church and
me looking to god. and this is what the answers that were given to me. that you have a demon that needs to be dealt with. it needs to be called out of you. >> how much does this demon enter your life? because you've been telling me about a roller coaster of this kind of thing for a while. >> roller coaster, more or less, there's a what you'd call spiritual maturity. and when i gave my life to god, it doesn't matter you quit sinning. >> if you've given your life to god -- >> twice, thank you, you're starting to offend me, but twice i've given my life to god. >> when clagett got upset with me, when he showed overt anger, it didn't upset me, except i didn't want him to end the interview. my concern was that he might, you know, cease doing the interview. >> but soon the interview was back on track. >> is it possible you could have hurt people and not consciously remembered? >> are you talking about that there might be any substantiation to the claims of 21 people being killed? >> yeah. >> okay, then ask that question. ask a straight question.
>> okay. is it possible you could have taken the lives of 21 people? >> um, no. >> why? >> because -- because i know god and because i've asked him. i asked him specifically about that. >> with clagett still not providing a definitive answer, we checked in with him the next day, just hours before leaving tulsa for good. the visit only led to more questions. this time, concerning clagett's mother. >> as far as one of the things yesterday that i -- i really want to put it all out there, because i'm coming real 100%, and i believe that's the only thing that god is going to honor, as far as another voice coming over me, as far as my eyes changing, as far as my mannerisms changing, and that i did something similar to my mom. so, i thought that was something that i should be open about. >> you choked your mother? >> what's that? >> you choked your mother? >> not choked.
engaged in harmful physical behavior. >> what would that be, then? >> i'll spell it out for you, man. my mother, i laid hands on her and i didn't even know it. >> did you physically hurt your mother? >> i just said that, yes, ma'am. >> you said you laid hands on her, that's very vague. >> yes, i laid hands on my mother. i said that earlier, i physically hurt my mother. >> and i'm asking how? did you hit her? >> i don't remember, because i have absolutely zero recollection of it -- as a matter of fact, i thought she was lying when she told me it. however, my mother's not one to lie, so i took what she said at face value. >> and suddenly for the first time, clagett entered a clear answer as to whether or not he was a serial killer. >> okay, then that is going to beg the question that has come up with all these 21 people. >> my dna will show that i did not do that.
i will be completely restored -- i did not do that. i did not kill no 21 different people. >> and that would appear to be the truth. clagett would later plead guilty and be sentenced to five years in prison for assault and battery. he served a year and seven months and us with released on probation. more than two years after we met him, no murder charges had been filed. >> another day in paradise. >> during our extended stay shoot in tulsa, we met another inmate who would leave us and her fellow inmates with questions about the truth as well. jessica newell was an 18-year-old first-time inmate who had been booked the jail three days earlier. >> all i want to do is prove my innocence so i can go home and be with my baby. >> within hours of her arrival, newell was placed in segregation for her own protection, locked in a single-person cell, 23
hours per day. but it wasn't because she was a new inmate. >> jessica! don't be sad, jessica. it's only assault and battery, baby. you're not even in here for something really serious. >> the people across from me, they asked me what i did to get in here, and i just told them me and my man got in a fight. i won't ever tell anyone what i did. >> you're only in here for assault and battery. it could be worse. you could be a murderer. >> i definitely got the impression that if those inmates found out the truth about jessica newell, jessica would be in jeopardy. they were going to uphold the convict code. >> coming up, jessica newell's charges make her a target for violence. the microsoft cloud gives our team the power
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other inmates. the truth was that she was charged with child abuse by injury for allegedly harming her 3-month-old daughter. she pled not guilty, but in jail, anybody even accused of child abuse is often targeted for violence by other inmates. >> i was changing her diaper, like i normally do, and she started screaming and i didn't know what was wrong, so i took her down to my mom and asked her what i should do and she told me to take her to the hospital. so i took her down there and they did x-rays on her and said that she had a broken femur. >> doctors also found a fractured clavicle and determined that the force used to cause these injuries indicated child abuse and they notified authorities. >> i told them i couldn't possibly have pulled on her leg too hard when i was changing her or picked her up too hard or sat
her down too hard. i was tired. i didn't really think about it. i didn't think i was doing anything to hurt her. >> newell is married, but says being an 18-year-old mom feels nearly as restrictive as her current circumstances. >> it's been hard. i have no friends, because everyone that's my age is not married or have kids. no one understands me. i'm stuck in the house taking care of her all the time and i never get to go out. i never get to do things an 18-year-old should be able to do. i guess no one believes me. everyone thinks that i purposely hurt my daughter and i didn't. >> it's always tough being part of a story that involves children. i think that's the hardest story to tell on "lockup." and of course, all of these crimes are alleged. this is a jail. so, you know, you can't rush to judgment. so, you know, we're listening to
her. >> you know, i have a little girl, i've changed a billion diapers, you know? some half-asleep. did you feel angry at all? >> no. >> in any way, about being woken up, anything like that? >> i wasn't angry at all. i was just tired. >> was there anybody else with you when she started screaming? >> my husband. but he was laying on the bed, halfway asleep. >> newell was in jail for four days when her husband, daniel barnette, came in for a visit. >> why didn't you -- shut up, listen. why did it take you so long to come up here? >> because i've been having to work and stuff, baby. you never called my phone or anything to let me know when i could come. >> how could i call you, daniel? >> i've been asking your mama when i should come up here. >> i was laying in bed and we've changed, you know, 200 diapers. i mean, it's just routine getting up. i had the bottle made for her and i was laying there and jessica picked her up and
started changing her diaper, and that's when we heard a squeal and it was a little different, like, so i tried to feed her, just do everything we usually deal. and that wasn't working. and i noticed when we touched her, especially below the waist, she would make a little squall and everything. >> he denied categorically that his wife had hurt the baby. >> i mean, i really don't know. i just know jessica wouldn't do that intentionally. >> nobody could tell us how did this baby sustain these very severe injuries. >> the visit made an impression on our production team, because of the one topic never discussed. >> as soon as i get my break on work, i'll come over and see you if you are home. if not -- >> leave me some cigarettes. >> i will leave you some cigarette.
>> i don't even recall her talking with her husband about the baby. didn't discuss the baby at all. that was a little surprising to us. >> i love you. >> i love you, baby. i'll see you tomorrow, okay? >> the next day, newell was in the jail's video courtroom for her arraignment. where a judge would formally present her charges and accept her plea. >> i'm very nervous. i don't know what's really going to happen. my lawyer said that he thinks he may be able to get the case dismissed, because he doesn't think there's enough evidence to actually say that it was abuse. he said i shouldn't be getting any jail time at all. he said, minimum, probably three year probation. >> better probation than being behind these walls. >> oh, yeah, which would be awesome. just kind of ready to get it over with. i'm kind of scared to be in there with my court, because everyone else is going to be in there and they're going -- i'm scared i'm going to have someone attack me as soon as they hear what i'm in there for. >> jessica newell. good morning, miss newell.
you're being held on two charges of child abuse by injury. $50,000 bond is set each case. not guilty plea has been entered on your case. we're setting prelim for march the 25th at 9:00. somebody will be out to see you before that time. >> okay. >> not only was newell's case not dismissed and going to trial, but the news of two charges came as a surprise. >> they told me i only had one charge. i don't know how the hell they can say i have two when i was only booked in with one. i don't know how i can have two. >> after reviewing the evidence, the district attorney decided to charge newell separately for the femur and clavicle injuries. >> -- perceived things happened, you know, with everything. >> my court date's not for another month. >> yeah. >> i can't be back here for another month.
i won't with able to do it. i want to see my daughter. and i can't. it's not fair that i'm being here when i didn't do anything. >> but at the end of the day, we just kept wondering, how was this baby harmed so severely. but two days later, jessica was bailed out of jail, so we never learned the truth. >> after fighting her case for more than a year, newell took a plea deal for the charge of child abuse by bodily injury and received a 15-year prison sentence. she said during her incarceration, she and her husband separated. newell's mother legally adopted their daughter. while in prison, newell took advantage of several educational programs, including courses in parenting and anger management. after serving one year, the judge suspended the remaining 14 years of her sentence and she was released.
coming up, when two inmates say they're married, getting to the truth of their wedding date proves to be a challenge. >> what was it? '09? >> 2012. >> and later -- >> you look like you got beat with a baseball bat. i didn't use a weapon, but they, you know, they assume that i did. >> a chilling account of a barehanded killing or something else? our cosmetics line was a hit. the orders were rushing in. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan. we needed short-term funding fast. building 18 homes in 4 ½ months? that was a leap. but i knew i could rely on american express to help me buy those building materials. amex helped me buy the inventory i needed. our amex helped us fill the orders. just like that. another step on the journey. will you be ready when growth presents itself? realize your buying power at open.com
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now back to lockup when "lockup" extended stay shoots inside county jails, where inmates are from the same region, as opposed to prisons, where they can come from any part of a particular state, it is not unusual to find relatives doing time together. >> what's going on? >> they're usually housed in separate units, either because they're co-defendants or for other security reasons. >> we often ask jail officials to allow us to interview relatives together and usually those requests are granted.
>> when we were shooting at the downtown jail in oakland, california, i can only assume that two of the inmates we met there were familiar with this practice. i know they had watched "lockup" before and by the time we met them, we had been filming there for a number of weeks. >> 32-year-old jennifer davis, who would eventually be sfnsed to one year in jail and five years probation for second-degree robbery was housed in the jail's female maximum security unit. her nickname was danny jen. >> jen, because i make them sin. i'm crazy. i'm wild. >> and what's the daddy part? >> something my wife calls me. >> davis says she was legally married to 41-year-old keena landra, who soon after our interview would be convicted of grand theft and given five years probation. she was housed in a minimum security unit. >> what's this? >> oh, it's my tattoo i'm going to get when i get home. i'm going to get a world and get gin, that's her nickname, and get, my world, my love, my life, my wife. >> i don't automatically request to interview a married couple who are housed at the same jail. i like to get to know the individuals involved, see what their relationship is, see if there's actually something that plays out in terms of being
housed at the same jail. i thought, let me meet these two women and ask simple questions. when were you married? where were you married? and that's when things got very, very interesting. >> what day, actually, did you get married? >> it was in april. >> you don't remember the day you got married. >> april 9th. >> when did you get married? >> in the year of -- what year is it? '13? what was it? '09? >> 2012. >> april 9th, 2012. >> was it '09? >> i'm asking you. i don't know. >> was it five years ago? yeah, i believe it was '09? >> gay marriage was legal then? >> well, we did. we got a certificate, but we went to reno. >> you went to reno? >> mm-hmm. >> we had gotten married in different state.
>> where? >> out in d.c. >> you mean you're going to do that? >> we have. >> we exchanged vows there. >> april 2000 -- >> april 9th, 2010 -- i mean, 2011. i'm sorry. >> the two women did agree on one thing. that they met while they were incarcerated as california's valley state prison for women in 2010. >> what year were you in prison? valley state? >> 2010. >> you went to prison in 2010? >> mm-hmm. >> for the first time? >> mm-hmm. >> isn't that where you met keena? >> no, i mean, we met in there, yeah, but i went -- that was like, um -- >> jennifer -- >> yeah. >> you told me you met her -- >> i did. >> that would be 2010. >> yeah. >> therefore it would have been impossible for you to have gotten married in 2009. >> no, yeah, we are -- we have been married, and, uh --
>> you guys don't have the same dates or the same state that you got married in, so i just want to know why. i'm trying to figure out why. >> okay, so what did she say? >> we'll talk about that. i just want to know what you're saying. >> what i'm saying, about what? >> when you got married and where. >> we got married in d.c. >> when? >> in '09. >> needless to say, i did not put in a request to have them interviewed as a married couple. maybe i should have, because it would have been pretty fun and interesting, but i didn't. coming up -- >> take me through exactly what happened the second time. >> unraveling the truth behind a story of killing. having new experiences. are you ready? the key to a happy satisfying life
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when we shot "lockup" extended stay at the fairfax county adult detention center in virginia, one of our first questions for 23-year-old matthew bryant had to do with a tattoo on his forearm. >> what is that? >> that's a hangman. >> what does that signify? >> like back in the day, the kkk would hang people. >> he told us he was a devoted skinhead and white supremacist. during the course of our shoot, he was sent to segregation after officers discovered a fresh jailhouse tattoo. >> during shakedown yesterday, we noticed the swastika sign, it was freshly done, it was still red. >> but things didn't add up. brian had made friends with black inmates. and a known member of the jail's racist skinhead population not only dismissed brian's claim, but was angered by it. >> supposedly, there's another dude in here that claims to be a skinhead, which is totally
counterfeit. you green light dudes like that. and once they're green lighted, first, all the tattoos got to come off, one way or another. either you get them covered up or we're going to take them. you know, this isn't a game. >> come on, man. dude, you're smarter than that. >> even brian's mother told us her son was not a racist. >> he has a mixed brother and sister. he loves his brother and sister. i don't know if it's an act or if it was a way of fitting in somewhere. but he is not a racist. >> stop lying to me about stuff. >> i'm not lying. >> you lie to me all the time. >> you lie all the time. >> give me your first last name and spell both. m-a-t-t-h-e-w b-r-y-a-n. >> whether he was a racist was important to the story we told,
because it not only impacted him, but impacted others. but there was another aspect of brian's story that also required our field team to do a lot of digging for the truth. >> so tell me about your charges, man. >> i have a second-degree manslaughter charge and i have a grand theft auto charge and a couple of credit card charges, credit card theft charges. >> matthew bryan told me he was in jail for having killed a man and would soon be going to prison for it. >> and you were sentenced to how much time? >> 20 years with 9 years suspended. >> when you're field producing "lockup," you constantly have inmates coming up and willing to talk about their lives. but in jail, we're not allowed to have cell phones or computers, so we have to do the interviews first and fact check back at the hotel. >> so take me through exactly
what happened with the second-degree manslaughter? >> i sold drugs on the street and me and another person, we were walking one night, it was like 8:00 at night, to go sale something to someone else and, things just went bad. i was high, the other person wanted more than what they asked for, so it kind of started a little controversy. he had a bb gun that i thought was a real pistol. i thought it was a real gun. things just got out of hand. he had pulled it out, expecting, you know, me and her to drop or give him everything or something like that, but that's not how i do things. so i hit him and he hit me a couple times with the bb gun and then i pushed him to the ground and i just kind of just proceeded on hitting him in his head. >> matthew gave me a very detailed account of what eventually led to a killing. he never hesitated or flinched.
he looked me right in the eye and took me through an incredibly detailed story. >> he turned -- i remember him turning and then i just -- i just kept going. you know, just something -- just -- i was just hitting him anywhere i could. and i broke my pinkie. they said that he had three concussions in his head, his face was swollen, it look like he got beat with a baseball bat. i didn't use a weapon, but they, you know, they assumed that i did. i was more scared than anything, you know what i mean? i was more scared. i have two kids, i was thinking about them. i thought i was going away, you know, i didn't know what happened to him. we were both just worried about us, you know, getting arrested and the police finding us. so we went to my grandmother's house. and that's where i got the grand theft auto. we took the car to florida. >> once in a while, an inmate
will lie to us about a very serious charge. like, they'll say they're in for robbery, but leave out the fact there was also rape, but it's not too often they'll say their in for a more serious charge than they're actually in for. but either way we go back and check the records and verify the facts of the story. >> i have a second-degree manslaughter charge and i have a grand theft auto charge and a couple credit card charges, credit card theft charges. >> when we checked the records, we found everything but the manslaughter charge. a few days later when we saw him again, he said, oh, it hasn't popped up on my record. it seemed unlikely, but it's happened before. then we met his mom and asked her about it. >> he told us about your mother's car, the grandma's car and the florida thing, but he said the reason he did that is because he got into a fight with a guy, beat him up so bad the guy died and he was on the run. >> oh, no -- he's not -- no, i don't know anything about that. i've never even heard about manslaughter. believe me, matthew stole my mom's car because he could, period. >> make sure you got your shoes on all the way. >> i don't know why an inmate
would make up a story like that, unless you're trying to bolster your position in the thug community. i'm not sure how anybody -- the thought process that goes through somebody's mind like that to make up a story of that level, that magnitude. >> i guess he feels like he has something to prove, to the people around him in there. i think he wants to be feared, and i get that. matt's a big dude and i wish that in itself made him secure, but he's very insecure. and i think he says things so that people leave him alone and people are afraid of him. >> we talked to your mom. and it comes up that she has no idea about any sort of manslaughter charge. so, in fact, do you have a manslaughter charge? >> yeah, i do. >> well, how come it's not on any of the jail records? zpr because it's not going to stick until like november 18th.
it's a charge i've already signed off on, but it's not going to be in the system until november 17th or 18th. >> i just don't understand why your mom or the jail don't know about it? >> it's in there. >> so you're saying everything you've told us is the truth? it's the real story? >> it's the truth. everything i told you is the truth. >> is it possible that you're telling us hard-core stories about crimes that you don't have as way to survive in here? is that possible? >> yeah. >> it's possible? >> the racist stuff? that's -- that's real. >> so the manslaughter is not real? >> no, the manslaughter's not real. >> but you just told me five minutes ago it was real. >> yeah, i know. >> why do you feel the need to say that? >> like you said, to survive in
here. to survive when i go down to prison. that's the vibe i like to give off, just so, you know, i don't get [ bleep ]ed with. >> in the end, matthew bryan was given a sentence of 13 1/2 years with 12 years suspended. so he ended up serving a year and a half for serving his grandmother's charge and a few other charges, all of it in the jail. he was never even sent to prison. and when he at first lied about his charges, i got kind of angry, i wanted to find out the truth and kind of call him on it. but in that moment when he admitted it and told me why he was lying, i felt bad for the guy. because he was making up this elaborate story just to survive in jail. coming up, a joke becomes a virtual confession to murder. >> i guess i shouldn't have thrown that bag of crack out, huh?
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at the tulsa county jail in oklahoma, we met jacob england and alvin watts. they were suspects in one of the more chilling murder stories we've ever encountered. their alleged killing spree made national news. >> acting on an anonymous tip early sunday morning, police arrested 19-year-old jacob carl england and 32-year-old alvin lee watts. >> the two are believed to be responsible for friday's shooting rampage in a predominantly black tulsa neighborhood that left three dead, two others injured. all victims were believed to be randomly selected, stopped by the killers who were driving around, asking directions, then
gunning down the victims. >> and it wasn't just any friday. it was good friday. the good friday killings came on the two-year anniversary of the murder of jacob england's father, who had been shot by an african-american man. england and watts had entered not guilty pleas to three counts of first-degree murder, two counts of shooting with the intent to kill, and five hate crimes. both men were eligible for the death penalty. and both agreed to be interviewed by "lockup's" susan kearney. >> interviewing people who are suspected of or convicted of murder, it's always something different. sometimes people will completely deny the charge and everyone once in a while, we'll have somebody who will openly confess
to committing murder. >> are we rolling? >> rolling. >> we interviewed jacob england first. jacob fell into the category of somebody who was going to deny the murder charge. >> what motivation for this? >> just retaliation for black people on my father's death? >> do you have an alibi for that period of time? >> no. >> what were you doing the night that they say all of this happened? >> i was at the casino. >> what casino? >> osage. >> i don't know a lot about casinos, but i do know is that they usually have video cameras, don't they? >> yeah. >> how could that not be an alibi. they would have to have you on videotape. >> yeah, i'm just not sure what times. i don't know when i was there or when i left. >> to me, that would be the perfect alibi. you would have videotape of your whereabouts during this horrible crime, but, you know, he just kind of backtracked from the whole thing, which led me to believe there's no such alibi. >> after interviewing jacob, we interviewed his co-defendant, alvin watts, who had been a friend of jacob's, as well as jacob's father. i assumed that given the fact they're co-defendants, they're
there for the same crime, we'll get the same response from alvin. >> me and my co-defendant, my friend, we were sitting around the house, we was talking about his dad. his dad passed away on april the 5th, so he wanted to shoot down five people and that's what we set out to do. to find five people. >> five black people? >> five black people. and we went driving to the apartment complex where his dad was shot and killed at, looking for a black guy. and then finally, we found somebody. and my co-defendant asked him a question to coax him in, you know, to get him to come forward to us, and my co-defendant pulled out a handgun and shot him. i remember seeing the guy get so scared that he kind of whimpered out a scream. i seen his eyes. they got real wide after he
noticed a gunshot went off in front of him. i don't think he even realized he was shot. it wasn't like i was scared or anything. i was more like, you know, hey, you got one, you know! >> i mean, alvin told us everything. he remembered things in vivid detail. and it was chilling. >> after he looked at me, i shot him in the chest. didn't say anything to him or anything. >> there's really nothing like being in the room when you hear somebody recall, you know, killing people, personally. >> we wasn't talking or conversating or anything, it was you know, like we was hunting. just, like, looking for the next victim. looking for that next person. >> both england and watts were also facing hate crime charges, which could increase their charges of the death penalty. >> alvin and jacob denied being racist. >> do you have a problem with black people? >> no. i have mixed nephews.
i've had some real good black friends. >> how did you feel about black people? >> i felt -- i felt all right with them. i even listen to a little bit of rap -- black rap music, you know? i listen to that a little bit. >> but watts' cell door told another story. >> tell me what you put on this door. >> bible scriptures and my last name. >> that's all you wrote? >> yeah. >> on his cell door, there was "woody wood," which is a derivative of peckerwood, and that's a white supremacist gang. there was a swastika. there was uab, which is the universal aryan brotherhood. >> all of that is indicators of what? >> of, uh, hate, yeah. that's also on my wall here, too. >> how long have you been in this cell? >> i've been in here for a little over a year now. >> and you've never taken this stuff off the wall? >> i've tried to scrub it off and it won't come off.
>> we'd been in that jail for quite a while and the one thing the inmates -- you know, they're always having to take off their pencil drawings, and they only drew in pencil. they were actually provided cleaning supplies, so there was no reason he couldn't have taken those drawings off. >> this shading is similar to this shading, see? >> yeah. >> "w," i'm just curious. >> yeah, i've thought that too, you know, because it does -- they're similar to one another. >> i don't know, alvin. i don't know. >> in denying that he had put those racist statements on his cell walls and door, i think he was probably afraid of getting the death penalty. i'm sure the thought of being executed was terrifying to him and it was that hate crime charge that would have made that a possibility. >> later, england expressed
frustration that due to the high-profile nature and racist implications of his alleged crime, he was segregated from other inmates for his own protection. >> at one point, he was upset that a suspect who was in his same unit, who was also there for a high-profile crime, was able to have a group recreation that he was not entitled to. >> the difference is the two crimes, correct? one was not racially motivated. >> i mean, it was just -- he was robbing them, a drug deal, but -- >> it wasn't racially motivated. >> no. >> big difference. >> i guess i shouldn't have threw a bag of crack out, huh? >> what'd he say? >> that particular joke basically put him at the scene. >> he said, i guess i should have threw a bag of crack out there. >> that's the closest he ever came to admitting his guilt. >> one month after the original extended stay episode featuring england and watts aired, both men accepted plea deals that would take the death penalty off