tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC October 26, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
we'll be learning a lot more detail about it. e.j. dionne, thanks for joining us tonight. chris hayes is up next. tonight on "all in." >> so bush has no money. he's cutting. he's meeting today with mommy and daddy. and they're working on their campaign. >> whispers of a death spiral for the bush campaign. >> i've got a lot of really cool things that i could do other than sit around being miserable. >> tonight, inside jeb's latest troubles and why ben carson is pulling away in iowa. >> i wasn't always like that. >> plus, why donald trump today declared war on super pacs. martin o'malley on where democrats stand after the jefferson jackson dinner. and there has been yet another twist in the pharma bro saga. >> after this backlash, i may support a republican now. >> when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes.
it had been billed months ago as a celebration, a gathering in houston of jeb bush's big donors where they would have a chance to mingle and take pictures with a pair of former presidents who also just happen to be jeb's father and brother. instead, that closed-door conference, which wrapped up today with remarks by george w. bush, is being cast as something more like a funeral for jeb's floundering campaign. now, bush still has plenty of advantages in his quest for the gop presidential nomination, a marquee name, access to a massive donor network, a well-funded super pac, and more endorsements than any other republican candidate. but if the bushes and their backers once expected a coronation, well, what they've gotten thus far is closer to a catastrophe, and they know it. the patient is either in intensive care and in need of some good doctors who can save him or being put into hospice and we're going to see a slow death, one k street lobbyist backing bush told politico. a bush fund-raiser told the "washington post" that "it feels very much like a death spiral."
and while george w. bush today insisted today that his brother is "going to win because he's a fierce competitor," their father, george h.w. bush, is reportedly so exasperated at a gop electorate currently rejecting his son and embracing donald trump he's telling friends, "i'm getting old at just the right time." on friday jeb bush ordered major cutbacks to save campaign cash including cutting his campaign payroll by 40%. and over the weekend a candidate who once described himself as "a joyful tortoise" in a long race sure didn't sound very joyful. >> if this election is about how we're going to fight to get nothing done, then i don't want anything -- i don't want any part of it. i don't want to be elected president to sit around and see gridlock just become so dominant that people are literally going to decline in their lives. that is not my motivation. i've got a lot of really cool things that i could do other than sit around being miserable listening to people demonize me and me feeling compelled to demonize them. that is a joke.
elect trump if you want that. >> as for trump, he didn't miss the chance this weekend to once again ridicule bush over his poor poll numbers, campaign cutbacks, and decision to hunker down with his family. >> bush now has got to cut back because, think of this, think of this, here's a guy, here's a guy wants to run our country and he can't even run his own campaign. so bush has no money. he's cutting. he's meeting today with mommy and daddy. and they're working on their campaign. >> from the beginning of this campaign jeb bush has seemed fundamentally uncomfortable with the task of winning over a gop base that is skeptical, bordering on contemptuous, toward the kind of gop royalty that he, jeb bush, is. one former bush supporter who now backs john kasich offered a particularly devastating critique of bush this weekend telling the a.p. "god gives us our personalities and our looks and we can't help that. we are who we are." bush's attempts to drum up
enthusiasm can be, well, let's just say, less than trumpesque. as this campaign video of bush discussing his fantasy football team illustrates all too well. >> gronkowski, my number one pick. the guy's a monster. he's incredible. as long as he doesn't get hurt, he will continue to allow me to beat up on all my family members. gronk, we'd love to have you at a town hall meeting in new hampshire. you're welcome anytime. >> new poll out of iowa shows bush down in fifth place in the state with just 8% support. bush is losing by 24 points to first place ben carson, who we're going to discuss shortly. as for bush, who is now preparing for wednesday's potentially make or break gop presidential debate, he's just trying to drown out the noise. >> noise-free campaign's already started. bush is falling apart, he may not even -- >> blah, blah, blah, blah. >> you know what they're saying out there. >> that's my answer, blah, blah, blah. watch it. >> joining me now, msnbc
political analyst michael steele, former chair of the republican national committee. michael, your assignment, write a memo, write a memo to both candidate jeb bush and his team about what you've got to do. what's your advice? >> i start with clearing the decks and looking at bringing in some folks who understand how to run a campaign in an unconventional time. what you have, and it's not just the jeb bush campaign, but it's quite frankly all the others who are languishing below donald trump and ben carson. are running conventional campaigns in an unconventional environment. and they don't know how to adapt. these folks are sitting around hoping against hope, praying to the political gods that trump implodes, that ben carson goes away, and the stage will just be miraculously left to them. that's not how this is going to play out. so you know just junk the k street consultant political
crowd, get on the street, grab some grassroots folks who will get in your ear and tell you how to do you, boo. that's what this is about. this is seriously not about trying to do the conventional thing. let your inner self -- your inner street come out, if you will, so people understand exactly what you mean when you say it. >> okay. two responses to that. memo, michael steele to jeb bush, do you, boo. which is a catchy subject line. i would read that memo. >> that would be the memo. >> then there's two things i would say. one is why shouldn't it -- i mean, i think there is a case to be made, and i think i could make it if i was sitting in some conference room in a hilton somewhere in houston with a power point. look, we saw something similar to this in 2012, but the cycle with which the gop base sort of flirted with other candidates was much more truncated. we're seeing a longer version of that cycle. we still have a long way to go until the first ballot is cast. trust your fundamental analysis of why this guy is the strongest candidate in the race. ride out. don't sell into the down market,
as they say, as traders say. and trust your analysis because history shows us that the party ultimately decides who's going to get this nominee and you're backing the guy the party wants. >> but this ain't that. and that's the problem. this is not that. that was true when, you know, after six weeks this candidate at the top goes away, after three weeks this candidate at the top comes away, someone else gets in place. that's not this. donald trump has been in the lead for 100-plus days. ben carson is now working on close to 30 days in second place. carly fiorina jumped in, faded fast. but those two stayed in place. and that's the reality that the rest of the campaigns have to deal with. so you're back to the point that i was making. how do you break that stranglehold that they have? and a lot of it has to do with understanding what the base is saying. you may be right, but can you really risk spending all the money you need to spend on the off chance that there's going to be some type of implosion that
will allow you to rise to the point where the base, who's not been with you, by the way, for two, three, four, five months suddenly going to go, oh, yeah, i feel that, i can do that. >> you know, part of what struck me, i was reading the transcript today of the event between george w. bush and jeb bush, which is a fascinating document. there's one pooled reporter allowed in. we don't have tape to play you but we can find it, we can post it on our website. and one of the things that struck me was, you know, for understandable familial reasons, right? he understands his brother. jeb bush loves his brother george w. he thinks he was a great president. and i think they're a little out of sync with how that presidency and the bush family and the entire kind of gop-aristocracy, which they are indisputably, the way all those folks are viewed not just by democrats or independent viewers but even by the gop base. >> yeah, i think that that's an early card that fell flat very quickly when they tried to play it. the reality of it is not understanding where the base
was, where activists were, where even donors in some cases were relative to the rest of the bush narrative i think was a fatal flaw out of the gate. i always thought that jeb should have made it very clear that he's not his father, he's not his brother, and in so many ways he is his own man, and to demonstrate up front and early where he distinguished himself, where he disagreed with his brother on foreign policy, on domestic policy because that was -- you and i, we've talked about this. that was the rat coming out of the gate, when we did this whole rundown on the race, that was the rap that was on the table. so. >> yeah. it may ultimately be the political obituary of this campaign is the guy couldn't distance himself from his brother, which you could judge that as something sort of loyal and stand out from a familial standpoint and politically unfortunate. michael steele, thank you. >> you got it. as i mentioned a short time ago, ben carson, the candidate who goes from zero to hitler faster than anyone else on the trail, is legitimately surging
in iowa with one new poll showing carson with a 14-point lead over donald trump in the state. this is the third straight poll showing carson with a sizable lead in iowa. trump has certainly taken notice and started mocking carson as even less energetic than his old nemesis jeb bush. >> we have a breaking story. donald trump has fallen to second place behind ben carson. we informed ben, but he was sleeping. by the way, carson is lower energy than bush. i don't get it. i saw him being interviewed. he's lower energy than bush. >> appearing on "meet the press" sunday, carson responded to trump's charge and then told a story of just how high energy he used to be. >> i have plenty of energy. but you know, i am soft-spoken. i do have a tendency to be
relaxed. i wasn't always like that. there was a time when i was, you know, very volatile. but you know, i changed. >> when was that? >> as a teenager. i would go after people with rocks and bricks and baseball bats and hammers and of course many people know the story when i was 14 and i tried to stab someone. and you know, fortunately, you know, my life has been changed and i'm a very different person now. >> in that same interview carson compared a woman who wants to have an abortion to a slave owner. >> what if somebody has an unwanted pregnancy? should they have the right to terminate it? >> no. think about this. during slavery, and i know that's one of those words you're not supposed to say, but i'm saying it. during slavery a lot of the slave owners thought that they had the right to do whatever they wanted to that slave, anything that they chose to do.
and you know, what if the abolitionists had said, you know, i don't believe in slavery, i think it's wrong, but you guys do whatever you want to do? where would we be? >> carson's surge has come despite his decision to effectively suspend his campaign for a book tour. in a string of provocative statements like the one we just saw, that seem only to have made him stronger. carson has also proven a very successful fund-raiser raising more than $20 million in the third quarter. but there are increasing questions about where that money is going. of the $20.8 million carson raised last quarter, $11.2 million was plowed right back into fund-raising costs. joining me now, mckay coppins, senior political writer for buzzfeed news. carson -- so here's what carson's last few weeks have been. he's out promoting the book. the book's about the constitution. he's out -- it's very hard to get through an interview in which he doesn't compare something either to the third reich and hitler or abortion. the sort of touchstones of human evil.
he's not even campaigning actively. and he's just skyrocketing in iowa right now. >> well, i've been talking to a lot of sources about this. in the establishment, the republican establishment, there's a mixture of like relief that somebody is taking over trump but also like bafflement that it's ben carson. but i mean, some people say, and i think there's a case to be made, that if you were to create a candidate in a laboratory designed to take down donald trump in this climate he would look a lot like ben carson. and the reason is that he is also an outsider. he has a lost same bona fides that trump has, except that he actually genuinely appeals to the religious base of the republican party. he is a man of faith. he's very culturally conservative, has been as long as we've known. whereas trump is not at all. >> yes. he has an organic, intuitive, and long-standing relationship with and ability to speak to a certain portion of the republican base. >> yeah, absolutely. he is a religious -- his pep talk that he's been giving all
through his career before he went into politics was very laced with religion and his personal faith. there's also the matter that, you know, in that interview where he talked about his history, his personal history of violence and his youth, the obvious subtext there is that donald trump is this wild crazy unhinged person that i used to be when i was 14 and have since overcome, and that's why i'm low energy. right? i'm actually more aligned with you. >> here's one of the most -- i mean, from a policy perspective, he makes donald trump look like wonky quarterly journal. >> oh, yeah. >> donald trump -- there's not a lot of policy but there are like a few position papers. i mean, ben carson's around. he was speculating about how he could get rid of medicare and replace it with something else. there doesn't seem -- >> his tax plan is based on the bible, a biblical tax plan. >> yeah, there's essentially nothing there from a policy perspective in -- i'm not saying nothing there in terms of what his ideas are but just in terms of like written out policies.
>> that is true. >> which has to be driving jeb bush and others nuts. >> but also look, donald trump has shown over the last three months that you that don't need to be -- not even a policy wonk. you don't even need to have that many policy positions to succeed. this race so far has not been about policy. >> but here's my question is when does -- i saw this comment he made about medicare, basically saying we could replace medicare, we could get rid of medicare and put something in private. you know, i've seen -- i've been in iowa and i know who the iowa caucusgoers are. okay? who is going to run an ad -- at some point someone's going to have to start picking these fights. ben carson will scrap medicare. >> yes. this actually comes down to what i think is going to be the next chapter of this battle between trump and carson is i think you're going to see money from both sides going into bombardments with ads attacking each other in iowa and maybe south carolina. but i think actually carson is
much more susceptible to an attack campaign of that nature than trump is because we already know trump's baggage. it's been out there for a long time. what people know about ben carson is very small. they like the general idea -- >> they like the bio and -- yeah. >> and he is on tape, on record, carson, on tv, on radio, saying a lot of things that are not -- do not inspire a lot of confidence. and i think that you could see him very quickly flame out when a campaign like that starts to go after it. >> final note is there are a lot of consultants making a lot of money -- >> yes. >> -- off the people that are writing their checks on direct mail to ben carson, something we want to take a look at more when this campaign unfolds because it's a sort of open secret right now. mckay coppins, thank you. >> thank you. still to come, the video getting a lot of attention of an incident in a south carolina high school between a student and a resource officer. plus, the pharmaceuticals company with the 5,000% price increase. now a competitor is selling a similar pill for just one
dollar, and i will talk to their ceo. and later, the iowa event that ignited barack obama's 2008 campaign. did any of this year's democratic candidates fare as well? presidential candidate martin o'malley joins me to talk about the field and more, ahead. ♪ (vo) you can check on them. you can worry about them. you can even choose a car for them.
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plan well. enjoy life. go long. but they have now super pacs. these are super dupers. we call them super duper pacs. and those pacs control the candidates. okay? they totally control. carson is controlled by his pac. bush is controlled by his pac. rubio is controlled by his pac. and he needs a lot of water on top of everything else. did you ever see a guy -- did you ever see a guy sweat like rubio? i'd never seen anything like it. but they're controlled by their pacs.
>> donald trump has found a new cause, which basically undoing what citizens united has wrought in the form of super pacs, political committees that allow unlimited donations as long as they maintain their "independence from the candidate at issue." now, trump has been boasting for a while he's the only republican candidate that doesn't have a super pac. then last week the "washington post" reported there were repeated connections between trump and the make america great again super pac which was backing his presidential bid. a few days after that report the "post" reported "a super pac with ties to donald trump's presidential campaign is shutting down in an effort to put an end to building questions about the closeness of the two operations." now with the super pac associated with donald trump shut down trump has returned to his role of campaign finance reformer. he fired off a series of tweets today in which he basically called super pacs a con game and called for all candidates to denounce them. trump wrote, "this whole super pac scam is very unfair to a person like me who's disavowed
all pacs and is self-funding. what the other candidates are doing is a disgrace. all presidential candidates should immediately disavow their super pacs. they're not only breaking the spirit of the law but the law itself." to give you an idea of just how physically thin the division is between campaigns and super pacs, this weekend when jeb bush's campaign huddled with his donors in a hotel in houston, politico points out that in a hotel ballroom adjacent to one rented by the bush campaign, mike murphy, the strategist guiding bush's ride to rice super pac, gaye gave attendees a sneak peek of his next round of feel good television spots meant into spire confidence in the candidate and the power and money of the super pac. this is a floor plan of the area where both the bush campaign and the super pac supporting his campaign held their events yesterday. joining me is a professor, head of the campaign reform group mayday pac. has a recent piece in "the guardian" titled "even corporate america wants to start crony capitalism." okay. here's something that doesn't get talked about enough. donald trump's point, which is
that this coordination between the super pacs and candidates might be illegal even under the incredibly broad reading of citizens united. >> yeah, no, citizens united itself if you look at it assumes that these are independent expenditures. it's a very naive opinion in a whole bunch of ways but it also assumes there's an agency that would enforce the law. and the f.e.c. -- god, i want to paraphrase mccain. basically was born broken and then it's blown itself up. it has three republicans, three democrats, and those three republicans have no interest either in enforcing existing law -- so we basically have a state of lawlessness in a whole bunch of areas. >> it's bananas. we're running a campaign that's going to see a billion dollars plus more than that spent with essentially no enforcement mechanism for what is okay and what's not. right? am i right about that? >> you're right about that. the campaign legal center put out a real call to legality, basically, a few months ago, detailing all these different
violations that are currently happening. but there's another kind of lawlessness, which is what we expect agencies to do is pass regulations, enforce those regulations. it's not enforcing but it's also not promulgating new ones. so for instance, we should be having regulations governing single candidate super pacs, which the f.e.c. if it were like the epa or any other -- >> clearly this violates the spirit of independence, right? >> absolutely, yeah. >> like clearly this is just an adjunct to a campaign. my favorite example of this, of the way in which the law has become a joke, which is always a very dangerous thing. it's like you see in decaying republics or the old soviet union where the law becomes like -- this is carly fiorina's super pac. right? they had no -- they had no visible advance team. and the super pac, they basically said we want to call the super pac carly for america, and the f.e.c. in a rare moment of enforcement was like you can't do that. so then they renamed it conservative authentic responsible leadership for you
and for america, better known as c.a.r.l.y. for america. it's just basically telling the f.e.c. like -- >> and the super pac, by the way, is at fiorina events taking names to do its own organizing. so it's really taking over the traditional campaign roles. but i want to be clear about where the buck stops because we can talk about the f.e.c. and we should talk about the f.e.c. but that means congress should act. that means the president should be really pushing for -- i happen to be in favor of a single head agency model. so we need congress to act on public financing, on the f.e.c., on all of these things together. >> so the f.e.c. has, because they have this deadlock, this wild -- i mean, the thing that donald trump, donald trump is talking about, which is basically this is preposterous, these aren't independent, is true and no one's enforcing it. >> yeah. i mean, donald trump is not a credible messenger, but he's absolutely right. and i actually think we should see, as we saw in net neutrality more protests, you know, around the f.e.c. so the commissioners can really feel the heat.
>> but even if he's not credible, i mean, he is clearly going to make an issue of this. wednesday night at the debate he's going to turn around and say to people, what you're doing is probably illegal, you should renounce your super pack. >> i'll tell you why he's not credible. there's basically three models of america we have in front of us. one is the current model which everybody knows isn't working. and it's the one he's talking about, which is you basically have candidates who are sycophants, courtiers -- >> right. >> his model is oh, let's get rid of that and replace it with billionaires. >> cut out the middle man, just have the billionaires run themselves so they don't have to beg anyone because they have all the money. >> but that's not democracy. the third model, the one we really have to push for, is public financing of elections, where you actually could have free candidates who are neither, you know, beholden to donors nor billionaires themselves. >> before we even get there, in some ways my point in this sort of low-hanging fruit is if someone brought an enforcement action against one of these super pacs saying you can't rent the same ballroom, you can't name it this, there would at
least in the immediate -- there would be some clarity about the rules right now, which are totally lacking. >> one of my students was trying to figure out how to sue the f.e.c. -- >> to make them enforce the law. >> yes, exactly. >> zephyr teachout, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. coming up next a look at a shocking look at an incident involving a school resource police officer and a student at a south carolina high school. well that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grandpappy's hammer and he would have wanted you to have it. it meant a lot to him... yes, ge makes powerful machines. but i'll be writing the code that will allow those machines to share information with each other. i'll be changing the way the world works. (interrupting) you can't pick it up, can you? go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic, why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is the only daily tablet
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a scene between a female student and the school's resource officer. we will show you the incident in a moment. school officials confirm the incident happened on monday but stopped short of releasing further details. according to sheriff leon lott the school resource officer was acting in response to a student who was refusing to leave class. here is one view of the incident. >> put your hands behind your back. give me your hands. give me your hands. >> nbc news has not confirmed what precipitated that violent encounter. the richland county sheriff's department as well as the internal affairs division are now investigating this, we are told. the school has also started investigation and is working in cooperation with the sheriff's office. a spokesman for richland county says the sro, that's spring valley high, is now on administrative duty, that's the school resource officer, until
the investigation is complete. his name is ben fields. he's one of two resource officers at the school. no injuries reported according to the spokesperson. the sheriff is currently out of town at a conference. he was shown the video and "he was very disturbed by what he saw." >> the sheriff is also asking for everyone to exercise patience at this time as this is being fully investigated. he's not going to leave any stone unturned checking out exactly what took place and what happened. as well as the sheriff and the school district, they're going to come together and they will take appropriate action necessary once this investigation is totally completed. >> joining me by phone from columbia, south carolina, reporter chad mills who's with our affiliate wis-tv. chad, what is the latest? >> well, chris, as you heard there, the sheriff is out of town on i believe it's some kind of conference for sheriffs across the country. but his spokesperson here in
richland county is urging people not to rush to judgment. so many people have shared this video. obviously, many people say it's disturbing. many people say it's even worse than disturbing. they say they're at a loss for words when they see that video. but again, sheriff's department, richland county sheriff's department is asking people to let cooler heads prevail for now as they investigate whatever happened. now, i want to read you the narrative we got from sheriff leon lott a little while ago. he said, "the sro," the student resource officer, "was acting in response to a student disrupting the class. the student refused to comply with directions of the teacher and school administrator to leave the class. when she refused, the sro was requested to take action. the student was told she was under arrest for disturbing school and given instructions which she again refused." the video then shows the student resisting and being arrested by sro ben fields. now, another student arrested as well.
we're told both of the students arrested were seniors, although the sheriff's department wasn't too sure about that point. but nevertheless, one female and one male. the female of course is the student you see in the video. the male who they arrested you cannot see but he was taken into custody as well. both of them charged with disturbing a school. now, the female was apparently released to parents. the male, however, was taken into custody. it's unsure at this point whether he was taken to jail or the department of juvenile justice. chris. >> all right. chad mills, thank you. i've got to say, it's very, very difficult to conceive of the chain of events prior to that video that would in any way justify what we see there. but we shall see what develops. we will be staying on it. coming up, i'll ask a 2016 presidential candidate about that video. we'll be right back. your health? ahh... ahh... cigna customers have plan choices and tools to take control. so they're more engaged, with fewer high health risks and lower medical costs. take control of your health at cigna dot com slash take control.
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pharma bro. martin shkreli, the 32-year-old founder and ceo of turing pharmaceuticals caused an uproar when his company jacked up the price of a drug used to treat a deadly infection by 5,000%. now, shkreli blamed the massive increase on market forces telling cnbc "it was effectively built into his company's purchase of the patent. >> we definitely planned on raising the price. that's for sure. we paid a very, very large amount to buy an unprofitable medicine. we can't continue to make -- to lose money on the drug at that price. so we took it to a price where we can make a comfortable profit but not any kind of ridiculous profit. >> after becoming the most hated man on the internet, shkreli tried to align himself with one of the most beloved men on the internet, democratic presidential candidate bernie sanders. shkreli gave sanders the maximum individual donation of $2700, telling "the boston globe" he was hoping to get a private meeting to explain why drug companies set prices the way they do. but alas, pharma bro was rebuffed by the sanders campaign, which gave the money away to a clinic for hiv/aids
patients, the main population in need of this newly expensive drug. and shkreli wasn't too happy about it. >> i think he's a demagogue. he'll say anything to get a vote. and, you know, for me to be his pinata is unacceptable. i think he has a lot of great ideas. i gave him $2700, which i understood to be the legal limit, and he donated it to a charity. now, i donate millions of dollars to charity, and most young entrepreneurs don't do that. >> who are you supporting for president? >> i haven't made a decision yet. i'd be willing to support a democrat. in fact, i was going to start a democratic super pac with my own money. but after this backlash and the lack of understanding of our economy from what i've seen from the democrats, i may support a republican now. >> now shkreli will have some different market forces to contend with. a compounding pharmacy called imprimis said it's selling a different version of the same drug at just 99 cents per pill. $749 less than what shkreli's company is charging for it. and joining me now, ceo and founder of imprimis pharmaceuticals, mark baum. good to have you here. >> good to be here, chris.
>> what is a compounding pharmacy and how does this work? >> so compounding pharmacies buy fda-registered, fda-approved generic drugs, and they repurpose them or reformat them for new uses. so if your daughter needed a drug that was only available in a pill format, she can't swallow a pill, a compounding pharmacy would take that drug and put it into a liquid or a suspension so she could take it. >> and the active ingredients are all purchased through this regulated chain of the fda, right? >> they're fda-registered generic drugs. they're produced in fda-inspected facilities. and we buy them. and our facilities are inspected by the fda as well. >> so then explain to me how this is possible from a market perspective. a company buys this drug and essentially has a monopoly on that drug as far as i understand it, right? they purchase the drug. not a legal monopoly because it's out of patent, right? i think i misspoke before and said patent. but they have this drug. they're going to jack up the price. you come in and say we'll sell it for a dollar. like how can you afford to sell it for a dollar if they're selling it for $750?
>> well, first of all, you know, when you talk about the drug, you talk about daraprim. everybody talks about daraprim. but daraprim is really a name in advertising. it's a brand name. the underlying chemical that makes up daraprim happens to be very inexpensive. and so what we are able to do is to buy that chemical. and let me be clear. we are not legally allowed to copy that drug. the fda will prevent us from doing that. and we will not do that. so we cannot copy it. but we're able to take another complementary active drug, marry it with pyrimethamine, which is the underlying drug in daraprim, combine the two, compound them, and build a new choice for physicians and their patients. >> wait. so when you say this -- this gets to the sort of key of how this market works, right? because there's all these patent thickets and intellectual property and there's brands and there's generics. so when you say you can't copy the drug, that's the fda's enforcing essentially the sort of title that he has on this drug, right?
>> one of the reasons why i got into this issue is first of all i financed a lot of businesses over the last 15 years that have specifically served this community. so i'm personally -- >> hiv/aids patients. >> absolutely. and when i saw what he was doing, i mean, he's not engaged in capitalism. i'm for capitalism. i believe in competition. he was engaged in a monopoly. he purchased this because he knew he was the only one that could make it. i believe. i would imagine that was the case. and that he could control the price. and the good news is, is that with a few small changes in health care policy at the fda level and potentially at the congressional level this could all be eliminated. you don't need to, for example, bring in drugs from canada. we could probably build the drugs cheaper than you could buy them in canada, nor do you need price controls. >> can you with your facilities mass produce this drug? it sounds more like kind of a boutique process, for lack of a better word.
>> it is bespoke medicine. and we are not allowed to mass-produce these formulations. quite honestly, we could if the fda -- if the laws were changed. we could make a lot more of it. congress passed and president obama signed a law that governs how we conduct ourselves. and there is a pathway to actually making this formulation in an fda-registered facility. unfortunately, right now the fda has kind of said that we can't make this particular formulation in even an fda-registered facility. >> i will say you're very good at explaining what you do, but i remain completely confused about how pharmaceutical -- how drug pricing works in this country. so we're going to have to revisit this. >> for sure. >> great to have you here, mark baum. >> thank you kindly, chris. still ahead, presidential candidate martin o'malley is here and he will join me live on set. stay with us.comforta e it can b. but did you know that the lack of saliva can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath? well, there is biotene,
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governor brownback has used kansas as a kind of laboratory to test right-wing economic ideas, drastically cutting income and corporate taxes while slashing the funding for state programs like education and infrastructure spending. that resulted in a massive budget shortfall and a credit downgrade from s&p in 2014. despite that governor brownback was re-elected last november. but now it appears kansans are rejecting brownback and doing so in overwhelming numbers. according to a new survey, just 18% of kansas voters say they are very or somewhat satisfied with governor brownback while nearly 7 in 10 disapprove of the job he's doing. for comparison, president obama's approval rating is ten points higher in red state kansas than that of governor brownback. additionally, 61% say brownback's tax policy has been a failure or a tremendous failure, while 7% say it has been a success or tremendous success. we should note just 0.2% said his economic policies have been a tremendous success. gh, but i'.
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himself and hillary clinton on issues like the transpacific partnership trade agreement. >> i did not support it yesterday. i do not support it today. and i will not support it tomorrow. >> secretary clinton coming off a great week politically was eager to contrast herself with the republican party's presidential contenders as well as suggest she is the true progressive in the race. >> how much longer can we wait to stand up to the gun lobby and keep our kids and our communities safe in america? >> presidential candidate lawrence lessig was not invited to the jefferson jackson dinner according to the candidate. former governor martin o'malley rounded out those who were invited and delivered an a passionate speech to what appeared to be quite an appreciative crowd. >> to that immigrant basher
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untouchable? presidential leadership is about the good of the many, not the greed of the few. >> martin o'malley joining me now. former governor of maryland, current 2016 democratic presidential candidate. it's great to have you here. >> so let me ask you this. what's your theory of the case for how things look in this campaign for, say, the next two months, right? it's down to -- well, there's four people but three who are going to be included in the debate, three included in the jefferson jackson dinner. presumably the next debate will be more focused, you will sort of have a more prominent position. what's your theory of the case for the o'malley candidacy in the next two months? >> my theory of the case is the american people are looking for a new leader. in both parties. we can't be this dissatisfied with our gridlocked politics and this dissatisfied with an economy where 70% of us are working harder but not getting ahead -- >> but isn't bernie sanders channeling that -- i agree with you, that's clearly the case. but bernie sanders seems to be
channeling the desire for that. >> for now. but you've follow odd presidential campaigns before. but the candidate that's peaking in october is never the candidate that's peaking in february. we're not going to solve our problems by debating the fine points and the pros and cons of socialism. we're not going to solve our problems by declaring that all republicans are our enemies. america's looking for a healer. they're looking for someone that can bring us together to address our problems and do it in the new and entrepreneurial way that mayors across america are doing it. and that's my way of leadership. i'm not part of those old battles of the past. i'm about the future. >> but is that really -- first of all, you're a politician. you were mayor of baltimore, you were -- >> governor of maryland. >> you were governor of maryland. you know what politics look like. and one of the things we learned in the obama era is one cannot unilaterally declare themselves a healer because as they say in west point, the enemy gets a vote, right? >> well, hey, look, man.
there's a reason why the president of the united states also has to be an effective leader of his own party. i didn't get things done in maryland, marriage equality, the dream act, comprehensive gun safety legislation, repealing the death penalty, only with democratic votes. some of those things only happened with republican votes. but we would not have been able to find the consensus and forge a new consensus for change if we were not strong within our own party. so you have to be a strong party leader. i'm not saying we're in a post-partisan age, in an age when parties are done. but i am saying this -- that there's a lot more that unites us than divides us. and the beliefs that we share as americans are the things that we need to focus on, not the divided policies of the past, not the worn-out sort of coddling of wall street banks that our party fell into in the past. there are very clear differences in this election between the candidacy that i offer and that which secretary clinton has to offer. and those contrasts are going to become very apparent in the debates ahead. >> one of the things that you have put out a pretty comprehensive plan on criminal justice reform, that i think
there's essentially an allusion to sandra bland in that speech you gave there, the woman who was pulled over for not signaling and -- and ended up dying in a texas jail. i want to show you this video because it strikes me this is part of what is driving a lot of the grass roots in the democratic party. this is this incident that happened at a high school in columbia south carolina. it's a student who as far as we know had refused to get up. the school resource officer's called in. take a look. >> on your back. give me your hands. give me your hands. >> that happened today. again, the full context of that is not known to us. your reaction seeing that video. >> as a parent and as a father, i would be ripped ballistic if somebody did that to my daughter. that is -- that's pretty outrageous behavior. that's my reaction to that.
>> i had the same reaction as a parent, i've got to say. >> yeah. i mean, that's not appropriate behavior for any adult, to treat a kid. my oldest daughter's a teacher in baltimore city public schools. i have visited classroom after classroom. there's no excuse for that sort of behavior. >> when you talk about distinguishing yourself from senator clinton, secretary of state clinton, what's the one area you think is going to emerge the most in the next two months? >> i think one of the most important areas is this. look, we have seen secretary clinton shift positions on any number of issues right up until the eve of the debate. shifted position on keystone. shifted position on transpacific partnership. i was against keystone a year ago. i was against transpacific partnership eight months ago. the one thing she has not been -- that secretary clinton has not been able to shift position
on is glass-steagall and the big mega banks that now still threaten to crash our economy. she cannot change her position on that. as she said herself, she represented wall street -- i think that's a huge difference. >> i think we're going to see a lot more of that debate. governor martin o'malley, it was a pleasure having you come by. that is "all in" for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> >> good evening, chris. we here at msnbc have an embarrassment of riches. you just saw governor o'malley live with my friend chris hayes. vermont senator and democratic presidential candidate bernie sanders is here tonight in my studio for an interview. settle in. it's going to be a good night. but our conversation starts on march 24th, 1994. at the time i was just about to turn 21. i had just moved to san francisco. i was an aids activist. it was still a couple of years before protease inhibitors were around to treat hiv inhibitors. i remember that at the time it