tv Morning Joe MSNBC October 29, 2015 3:00am-6:01am PDT
running for president of the united states. i'm running with heart. i'm not a performer. if they're looking for entertainer in chief, i'm probably not the guy. if they're looking for someone that has a proven record of per. if they're looking for an entertainer and chief, i'm not the guy. if you're looking for someone with results and the most conservative in the last 30 years in the country, i'm their guy. >> you seem quiet frustrated. >> no, not frustrated. i wish i would have gotten to answer questions on things that are on the minds of people. entitlement action challenges, the debt. i got fantasy football. you know, it's important, i guess. >> that's important, i guess. >> where do we begin? good morning. it is thursday, october 29th. >> that was a big mess last night. >> with us on set we have former communications director for president george w. bush. former treasury official steve bratner and in bolder, colorado
managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark. there's a couple of losers, that's for sure. >> there are a couple of losers. it was a terrible day. >> it was a mixed bag of moments. >> it was one of the worst debates i think i've ever seen in my life. it was a horrible, horrible confusing cluster. >> this is where people chimed, i think. >> yeah, i think they' big mome of the night was when jeb talked to marco. >> that was interesting. you could see jeb bush going in for the kill but then things turned around. take a look. >> i'm a c-- of the center. i expected he would do the service. he got endorsed by the sun signal because he's a talented guy. marco, when you signed up for
this, this is a six year term. you should be showing up to work. literally, the senate, you get three days you have to show up. you can campaign. resign and let someone else take the job. there's people living paycheck to paycheck and looking for a senator to fight every day. >> someone's convincing you attacking me will help you. here's the bottom line, my campaign is about the future of america, not about attacking anyone else on the stage. i will continue to have respect for governor bush. i'm not running against governor bush, i'm running against hillary clinton. >> so david tweeted incompetent questioning, yes but this is the most important debate to date. it finished off the bush
campaign. bush went after marco. on this one, it seemed like it had him. >> i was surprised to his lack of response to what marco said. first of all, john mccain wasn't a con stitch -- you're telling people you can't show up for work. secondly, you compared yourself to barack obama and john kerry. really? i tell you who i'm going to compare myself to, ronald reagan. like reagan i went to work for eight years whether i liked it or not or frustrated by little legislators like you or not. i worked hard for the people and if for some reason i couldn't
have, i wouldn't have kept drawing the paycheck. nothing from jeb. no response from jeb. no response from the rest of the change. the incompetence in the follow ups. they talked about his financial problems and he goes that's just a lie. he went on to answer. no follow up there. no actually it's all very legitimate and real. i thought the incompetent on the stage other than you had a couple of people that did extremely well and we will talk about who shined. >> seems like a lot of people are saying marco won the night and it's more bush lost the night. there's places he could have gone he didn't go. >> i agree. it wasn't marco. ted cruz won one part of it, marco won one part of it. at the end. >> chris christie. >> chris christie did well.
>> marco rubio's personal finances have been turned into political hay during the campaign. everything from a boat he bought to mingling campaign money with personal money. >> you face foreclosure on a second home you bought and just last year liquidated a $60,000 retirement fund. it raises the question whether you have maturity and the wisdom to lead a $17 trillion economy. >> you just listed -- i'm going to tell you the truth. here's the truth. >> first of all, that's just, steve bratner, he just lied. he lied to people. again, if he wants to lie, politicians lie. if he wants to lie, that's fine. but nobody follows up and says you're lying, marco. it's mind boggling how
incompetent some of the people on the stage were. >> he dismissed it all and said this was discredited. what becky quick went through and there's a lot more in terms of how he handled his personal finances is true. it is what it is. all the stuff with the ira and spending a lot of money on cars and things and mingling campaign and personal money, all that's done. >> you know what he said that got just about anybody watching raising kids. he said i'm raising kids in the 21st century and i want to give them a better life than i had. >> they weren't through. >> i think if you're watching he created a moment of empathy. >> the thing is everybody last night was going oh my gosh, he was so great. it's not that he was so great. it's so many others just sucked.
i was blown away. mark, i want to go to you. you have been talking about how this republican field has been the strongest and best in years. you you said their skill has been exaggerated. i thought the inability to respond to student counsel president chris christie and donald trump. >> cruz had a great night. >> it was mind boggling how incompetent some of those people on stage were last night. >> i thought the two best were cruz and rubio. their two young aggressive senators who now have a chance
off the momentum they're going to get off this debate to prove their upside can be converted into support by voters. neither of them has done gang busters they'll get what they want. >> he's going to get scrutiny today. you can say one thing in the debate and if you don't tell the truth, let's talk about who the people thought won. >> online surveys shows donald trump the overwhelming favorite last night. 46% of those say trump won the debate.
an online pole said he's first at 48%. i agree with this last night. >> no. >> okay. >> i want a pole that shows trump 56% of the vote and i will say this, willie, i thought for donald trump and we didn't get to whether this is jeb bush's water lieu in a minute. i thought that may be the big headline. i thought last night, donald played it pitch perfect. he laid back and associated himself with ben carson at the end and no attacks against ben carson and he for once after that first question, i'm sorry, we told the truth about fox who i love so many people over there, i got to tell the truth about john harrellwoowood. the first question was absolutely embarrassing. it was a megyn kelly style
questioning. calling him a comic book. first out of the debate. here we go again. >> donald trump smacked it down. what most of the candidates do, especially ted cruz was gave long speeches about the moderators and the media. >> cruz's was brilliant and came at that time right moment. it was in the middle of the debate and came back and went through every question and why this is unfair. >> willie talking about how all these people are so bad, ted cruz did what you're suppose to do. marco rubio made those little bash barbs up in home room class, ted cruz took what was happening in real time and threw it back at the moderators and it may have been the moment of the night. >> the questions that have been
asked so far in this debate illustrate why the american people don't trust the media. this is not a cage match and you look at the questions, donald trump, are you comic book villain, ben carson, can you do math, john kasi cesarech, will insult two people over here? how about talking about the sub -- issues people care about. the men and women on this stage has more competence and common sense than anyone in the democratic debate. nobody watching at home believes any of the moderators has any intention in voting in a republican primary. the questions being asked shouldn't be trying to get
people to tear into each other, it should be what are your solutions. >> so good. so good. that's a debater. i tell you what, for me, my report card, ted cruz and chris christie fought on their feet. wasn't that a great moment. >> what he did so perfectly though is we talk about how trump has the numbers he has because he's tapping into republican angs. ted cruz tapped into decades of republican rage against the media. he called out the moderators in real time. every republican at home had the courage to stand up and said it on live television. >> in real time instead of one of these student government like written down calculated responses and then when he says this, cruz in real time.
>> most thought that was a terrible moment for jeb and great for marco. >> it was a terrible moment for jeb bush because he couldn't respond to a simple barb where you had marco rubio comparing himself to barack obama and john kerry. if you can't respond to your opponent comparing themselves on a republican debate stable to barack obama and john kerry sharking their duty, you just need to go home and do other really cool things. that's what my point is. sure, it was a good comeback for marco, but you have to know when you say something there's going to be a response and you're going to have a response to the response. he stood there flat footed. after marco compared himself to barack obama on a republican stage, that was dumbfounded. >> jeb bush thought that was going to be a mic drop moment.
he had gone after rubio and rubio was going to fall. when you listen to the sound bite we played at the top of the show, governor bush, i'm not a performer. that's not your job. you're not handing in a resume for the job interview. a big part of this is performan performance. >> bush fatigue might still stop him from being the nominee. he's not performing flawlessly. to make that the first confrontation, most voters don't care about. they were not even close to good enough. today more people in politics including the donor network.
>> let's talk about that, mark. nicole came in wearing all black today. the death watch is on. listen, i think. >> the black is for the cnbc moderators. >> oh my god. so you know, a couple of them did well, i thought. i will say. do we have the last, the thing at the end with donald trump? donald trump has a mic drop moment at the end somebody said was a moment for the ages. let's talk about jeb and the death watch right now. >> really, is that what we're going to call it? >> let's talk about it and i'll ask you and then we'll talk to everybody else. you know i love jeb and you love jeb. it's not looking good and the donors are running for the exits now. it's going or the hard for him to raise money after this, isn't it. >> it's good he has so much.
>> he doesn't have that much. >> well, if he fails it will not be because of money. it will be because of what jeb bush articulated in the hallway after the debate. jeb bush in his own words said i am not a performer and unfortunately, you don't get to go govern unless you put on a performance as a candidate. it's sort of like mother hood. you may not like pregnancy but you don't get to be a mom. there's certain jobs you have to perform. >> let's get to that in a second. mark, death watch. is it on for jeb bush right now? >> it certainly is going to be what the chattering class talked
about. i think nicole is wrong with all the respect on the question. again, he's doing an interview on meet the press with chuck on sunday. there's another debate just around the corner. he cannot underperform. he went into last night with everyone around him. everyone at the family meeting there said okay, he's going to have to perform in bolder but he will and he didn't. i think marco now has to do two things. he has to convert last night's performance into donors coming his way. then there is that question about rubio beyond the scrutiny, will voters be excited about. he's still got to convert. if rubio doesn't rise, christie doesn't rise and kasich doesn't rise, rubio is going to say he's a candidate. >> i disagree with you, mark.
carly had two great debates and rose and went back down. if marco, the press has been trying to put a crown on him for three months now. i don't think there's a benefit for jeb moving forward. that benefit is donald trump and ben carson. and locks once and for all there -- they were calling ben carson the front runner last night which is absolutely outstanding.
this ben carson merge is probably a mirage. >> i agree christie has an opening here. he's extraordinarily strong. there's a reality they're going to have to get use to. they underestimated trump and carson and now cruz. i think it's possible if cruz rises and he has a lot of money to spend you may see the establishment between trump, carson and cruz getting enough establishme establishment. >> i think it's a stretch to call cruz an established candidate.
>> he's not part of anything. >> okay. let's close this block with really one of the moments of the night where you saw the difference in how to handle even if the question was about fantasy football. >> fantasy sports has become a phenomenon in the country. to play you have to assess your odds, put money at risk, wait for an outcome out of your control. isn't that the definition of gambling and should the federal government treat it as such. >> first of all, i'm 7-0 in my fantasy football league. there should be some regulation. i have no clue if federal government is the place. my mind set is to say hell no.
>> we have a governor involved in fantasy football. we have $90 trillion in debt, people out of work and isis and al qaeda attacking us and we're talking about fantasy football. can we stop. seriously. >> i think that was the moment of the night. >> i felt it. >> it revealed two things. >> just don't. >> how moderators are changed. first of all, chris christie, we've been staying it for sometime, he's a better politician today than he's ever been and one moment, one time this guy may have a breakout moment. i think he and ted cruz without a doubt. >> who would be good in the general? >> he's good at this. we were just talking about this.
you can go back to the reagan library debate. he pulled it back. trump and fiorina were talking about the jobs. he was like hello, nobody cares about your job. >> rich people stop talking. >> he pulls debates out of the weeds and looks at the camera and last night he spoke to a landscaper. he's just good at this. >> mark, was that not one of the great moments of the night? >> it was. i thought he did a smart thing that he did in the reagan debate too. don't dress the moderator or the audience in the room. turn to the camera and talk to the voters about the issues that matter to them. i think chris christie has been undervalued for a while now. he can do something that the establishment wants and something grass roots wants. he can stand up there and make a case. i can beat hillary clinton. he did it effectively throughout the campaign and took advantage
of his time. every chris christie answer was good. i loved his new jersey comment. even in new jersey, that's rude. >> he's someone whose strung together in all three debates. >> i agree with all of this. >> they're all, the established candidates are all, i think we're going to start seeing, i think last night you saw ted cruz, marco rubio and chris christie but themselves in a position to start to breakout a little bit and start challenging ben carson and donald trump. ben carson and donald trump helped serve last night. ben carson, when he spoke 15 seconds you sit there and think is he all right? is he going to be able to finish his sentence? >> when he talked about his tax plan it made no sense.
>> good. i thought i was really confused. >> donald laid back but every time he got in he had a big laugh. >> supporters are happy. >> looking at the poles, trump. >> quiet a moment. >> a winner despite what the establishment people are saying. >> he kind of disappeared because he wasn't asked questions and wasn't as eager to jump in. >> why? >> he didn't attack ben carson. right now they own over half of the republican voting population. don't attack him. take him on one on one. >> still ahead.
four of republican presidential candidates join the conversation. plus former house majority leader eric cantor reacts to paul ryan's nomination as speaker of the house. we'll be right back. you have two choices; the easy way or the hard way. you could choose a card that limits where you earn bonus cash back. or, you could make things easier on yourself. that's right, the quicksilver card from capital one. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. so, let's try this again. what's in your wallet?
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let me give you one quick example. these folks at cnbc had it down to three, three and a half hours. i read today in the new york times, $250,000 for a 30 second add. i went out and said it's ridiculous. nobody wants to watch three and a half, three hours. it was a big sacrifice and i have to hand it to ben. we called ben and he was with me a hundred percent. we called in and said that's it, we're not doing it. they lost a lot of money and everybody said it couldn't be done. everybody said it was going to be three hours, three and a half and in two minutes i really negotiated it down to two hours so we can get the hell out of here. not bad. i'll do that with the country.
we will make america great again. thank you everybody. >> just for the record, the debate was always going to be two hours. >> that's not right. absolutely not right. you know that that is not right. >> wow. >> nothing but love for a guy that made that debate shorter than it might have been. he's telling the truth. the new york times reported extensively on donald trump's efforts to shorten the debate. >> also, cnbc wouldn't do opening statements and trump fought them back on that. >> it was whether or not they needed to be standing there for three hours. they might have spread out or put breaks. >> trump was exactly right. willie, by the way, that was his closing comment and again, i will say donald trump has taken on cnbc and he won. he had a fight with fox and
nobody ever beats roger. he fought into a draw. he's right. >> i love his closing statement. i can handle these jokers at cnbc, watch what i'll do with putin. >> then an interesting night for john kasich. >> yes, it was. the ohio governor has been upping his attacks on resent days on two of the front runners. last night went after both ben carson and donald trump for what he called fantasy tax proposals. >> i'm the only one that has a plan that would create jobs, cut taxes and balance the budget and get it done. you don't make promises like this. why don't we give a chicken in every pot. you clean it up. this stuff is fantasy. just like getting rid of
medicare and medicaid. you don't scare senior citizens with that. it's not responsible. folks, we got to wake up. we cannot elect somebody that doesn't know how to do the job. you got to pick somebody who has the experience, somebody who has the know how, the discipline. this is a man that was a managing general partner at lemon brothers and almost took everyone with us including ben and myself. i was there and watched what happened and lemon brothers started it all. he was on theboard the board. he was so nice. such a nice guy. his pole numbers tanked and that's why he's on the end. and he got nasty. so you know what, you can have h him. >> that's why he's on the end. mark, somebody tweeted last
night. somebody said did kasich's advisers tell him to shout every answer? it was the previous debates he was soft spoken and going for the more moderate. >> he believes what he's saying. hebls the parties are headed down the road of ruin. he thinks the unwiseness of the few plans he put out. his execution, i thought was not even close or at the right pace. you have to be a happy warrior which he is. he wasn't in the beginning. simple role in politics, if you try to kill the king you must kill the king. he tried to kill two at once. he lunged, he missed and i don't think he ever really recovered.
he took a big shot at it and failed. it's going to be a national platform after failing miserably last night. >> that's interesting, it happened early in the debate, nicole. it's sending a strong message to everybody else on the stable. this is the genius of donald trump. you punch me, i'm going to tear you to sleds. and that sent the message. mika actually called me after that and said watch. nobody else is going to attack donald trump tonight and sure enough, they all stayed away from him. kasich tried it and it didn't turn out well at all. >> nobody holds trump to a standard but he. >> actually they weren't holding marco either. >> i'm saying voters, he will pay no price from his voters. >> neither with marco rubio. >> i'm saying part of what makes
this cycle so bizarre is the voters don't trust any other of the people doing the checking. trump was prepared with an attack. trump seemed to have done more thinking about how he'll respond. trump has evolved as a candidate. >> he was very disciplined. >> let me go to steve. let's go fact checking on the biggest lies. tell me what you thought of trump's attack. >> just on that point i thought trump was great. he was really prepared to say he punched and it worked. he punched below the belt. john kasich was not a managing partner of lemon brothers. he was sitting in columbus, ohio with one assistant trying to drum up business. that was off the mark. the biggest problem with this last night in my opinion is you had a whole bunch of candidates
who claimed to be conservatives, hard right, want to fix is budget with plans that were crazy. trump with a $10 trillion tax cut, bush with a large tax cut. even somebody like rubio, he has a 2.5 trillion plan that would cost the government $2.5 trillion over the next few years. everybody's throwing out stuff with 10% flat tax and none of it is responsible in the sense of the work. >> none of it is going to happen. this isn't one of those things where the media, no, none of this is going to happen. it will never pass. and these other flat tax plans, even jeb's proposing, not going to happen. >> i was reading increasing
sense of alarm on the comments. i was calling to make sure you were okay. >> you had rick in 2009 and came right back. the fed is one of the great institutions you had left. >> what's wrong with auditing the fed? >> the fed is independent. it was set up that way to conduct policy. shouldn't taxpayers know what's going on? >> they do.
we want to get them to change their monetary policy and much harder than the policy like the gold standard, stuff that's really crazy. >> steve, as the numbers got, who if anyone impressed you with ideas? if we get past the performance, who impressed you? >> chris christie actually as he did in other debates told like it is in social security. he was honest in contrast to someone like mike huckabee. we made a promise and going to ka keep it. chris christie was honest. kasich has plans. it was a much more responsible realistic plan. once you get past that and talk about 15% flat taxes and 10% flat taxes, it was all just
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because of the chinese. when it comes to dealing with me, you get a clinched fist and open hand. you pick. make me commander in chief and this crap stops. >> joining us from bolder, colorado republican presidential candidate senator lindsey graham of south carolina. >> lindsey, we'll say great night for you. we were reading. >> that was everything. >> yeah. we did say that as well. >> i love me. >> lindsey, let me ask you why do you love you? >> how long do we have? >> not long enough. we've been talking about the debads yuns again people consider you the winner in the earlier debate. what was your take with trump and marco and cruz and jeb?
what was your take away? >> i think the republican party is becoming the loser here. we got talented candidates. the process is not bringing out the best in the party. the rnc is trying to fix the last ones. the problems with the debates, they've over done it and micromanaging the process. i think the whole debate process, i don't think they could run a one car funeral. this is getting bad. >> what was your take on the debate itself and format itself? what went wrong? >> well, after about three times you should figure out a trend here. why not have two trenches.
i don't think i'm an undercard candidate when it comes to national security. break it into two groups. this micromanaging and trying to knock people out is hurting new hampshire, iowa and south carolina. give us all a chance and two debates, 90 minutes where you have less people on the stage and actually ask really good questions. chris christie was right. fantasy football, i'm sure that's big but isil, our national security is in free fall. there is no economic security. that was completely left out. >> lindsey, it seems like it's always got cha questions. the debate started with john harwood. it's like he wrote up the
question to make it about him. that's when he said about anderson cooper. he didn't make it about himself. every debate it's about the moderators. >> there's real good topics to have. tell me how you're going to eliminate the irs and corporate-like taxes. i'm not going to give obama-like promises. let's have a discussion about what would you do to get out of debt? how would you get democrats on board for your policies? if you don't like to immigration bill i've been working on for ten years, what is your solution? what would you do different in syria verses obama?
none of that comes out. we got good opportunities to dig into who we are as commander in chief. are we really ready for this job. do you understand bipartisanship is required for the job? that's all myths with this kind of clown stuff. >> i thought ted cruz had one of the greatest moments of night and channelled a little bit of your talent for bluntness especially in dealing with the media when he indicted the questioners for pitting republicans against each other. how did you feel when you saw that moment and did you appreciate he took on what sounded like bias questioning? >> there was some of that in the fox debate too. at the end of the day, this is okay to a point. in the goal to understand who we are and challenge us when we say things like i'm going to get rid of the irs, there will be no corporate taxes if i'm
president, challenge us on foreign policy. i've got a plan to win the war and win the debate. again, the process is off track and we need to get it back on track. we've got an embarrassment of riches. the rnc needs to up their game. you're hurting the process of picking a good republican candidate. >> good to see you up early. >> that makes one of us. >> a lot of the talk this morning about jeb's performance. what do you think about the idea of jeb bush as president as you've watched him the last couple of months? >> i've got my own campaign to run. i think i have a better story to be commander in chief than all these guys. i've been to iraq and afghanistan 35 times and been in the military for 30 years, 140
days on the ground as a reservist in iraq and afghanistan and i understand the war. what jeb has to do is show some passion for this job. i would take the country in a new direction. electing obama's secretary of state is not the change we need. all i could say to jeb is get in there. i'm ready to be commander in chief on day one. i will work for the democrats and save social security because i know why you need it. >> senator lindsey graham, good to have you on the show. >> let's do this later in the day. >> yeah, i hear you on that one. he's in bolder. coming up, three other contenders for the republican nomination. chris christie, mike huckabee and carly fiorina all with us on morning joe. we'll be right back.
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>>. >> it's fantasy football. we have $90 trillion in debt and isis and al qaeda attacking us and we're talking about fantasy football. seriously. >> up next on morning joe. >> what a moment. >> we're going to continue that conversation with chris christie by asking whether he plans to star phillip rivers or aaron rogers this weekend. governor chris christie next on morning joe. h elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. chase for business.
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three, three and a half hours. i just read today in the new york times $250,000 for a 30 second add. i went out and said it's ridiculous. i could stand up here all night. nobody wants to three and a half, three hours. it was a big sacrifice and i have to hand it to ben. we called ben and he was with me 100%. we called in and said that's it, we're not doing it. they lost a lot of money and everybody said it couldn't be done. everybody said it was going to be three hours, three and a half including them and in two minutes i renegotiated it down to two hours so we can get the held out of here, not bad. i will do that with the country. we will make america great again and thank you everybody. >> just for the record, the debate was always going to be two hours. >> that's not right. that is absolutely not right. you know that that is not right. >> wow. >> that was a mic dropping moment right there.
>> yeah. mic dropping moment like chris christie. >> he had a fantastic moment. >> as did ted cruz. >> ted cruz did as well. joining the conversation news and finances anchor at yahoo, good to have you on board. >> a lot of online poles last night. >> yes, and mark has the report as well. >> let's go quickly through the online poles and the report cards. we don't necessarily agree with all of these. we just report it. who won in the g.o.p. debate? trump 46 and cruz 19. 48 and 19. then the next drudge report, donald trump 56 and ted cruz 20. let's take your report card,
mark. are you there, mark? >> yes, i am. i thought that the two senators christie and rubio, cruz rather had their best night by far. as i said earlier in the show he had the best time. he was addressing the camera and americans rather than the moderators. >> most people i talk to that know what they're talking about, the three winners, trump won the poles but the three winners outside of that were governor christie, ted cruz and marco rubio. does everybody at the table agree with that? >> agree. >> i think chris christie's moment was the question about fantasy football and was posed initially to jeb bush and so it's like jeb gave the answer of how not to answer the question and then chris christie jumped in with exactly how you handle a
question about fantasy football. >> i have not been as blown away by marco rubio's prepared remarks he and a couple of friends made in home run class before going to the debate. but the thing about chris christ christie's responses, the thing about ted cruz's responses, they were in real time off the top of their heads responding to something. it wasn't unprepared. it wasn't focussed grouped, it wasn't pole vested and it was real. >> you know what's funny about the fantasy football moment, jeb bush made a joke that may have been given by somebody else, that was a good funny moment but then when it was just opposed by governor christie, what are you guys talking about here? >> you two rich people, stop talking. >> it became a bad moment for jeb bush and chris christie.
became a worse moment for bush. >> i just, i still for the life of me don't understand why jeb bush didn't turn to him and say let me get it straight. i compare myself to roranl to r reagan because it get up and work. >> i didn't say christie had the great comment about fantasy football and made an important comment about social security and i distinguished that from cruz in that cruz did every bit as well as he did. he attacked the moderators and preached a lot. i didn't come away with his vision for the country in respect of what he would do. >> chris christie is telling the truth economically. he stands alone in that area. >> and he has a great way of talking to viewers and voters at
home by looking into the camera and looking straight into the camera. he's done this in the last two debates and it comes across as a very authentic moment for him. >> joining us from bolder colorado, governor christie of new jersey. bright and early this morning. good to have you on board. >> good to be back, guys. good morning. >> good morning. >> he can't believe we're actually saying positive things about him. >> are you guys still on the same network, what's going on? i'm so confused. >> no, exactly. we've been talking about the winners and losers and surprised by the fact that jeb bush just couldn't think on his feet and you know, i mean on the marco rubio question, i mean, if marco rubio compared himself to barack obama and john kerry about missing votes and not showing up for work and saying he hated his
job and put in a pacifier and walked home, you wouldn't let that stand, would you? >> good things come to those who wait. we got plenty of time left in this campaign to distinguish ourselves from everybody in the campaign. we'll keep doing it talking to the american people. that's what they want to hear. i'll tell you last night was a good moment for a number of us to stand up to those moderators too. they want us to kill each other. the fact is, the differences i have with hillary clinton and the problems i think she'll cause the country are much different than those on the stage. >> these debates seem to be worst than last cycle's debates which we thought were terrible. >> well, listen, first of all,
the moderators didn't do their job last night in a number of areas. not only were the questions star can i and devicive and n-- but they were bias. it became a free for all everybody had to jump in when you could jump in. listen, the end, republican voters know this. we're not going to go on to that stage and give a fair shake. we're not going to get a fair shake from putin either. if you're not tough enough to handle those moderators, you're not tough enough to handle the united states. we need someone strong and tough and i think last night i showed the folks watching the debate i can be all three. >> governor christie, it's willie. >> hey, willie. >> we were talking about numbers. the pack of the rest of you is within the margin of error. you were down at 1 or 2% but you're right there with everybody else.
how are you feeling today about where you are given the fact you're at 1%. >> these events mean a lot. a lot of people are watching and i think what they tell folks is whose tough enough, whose tested enough, whose strong enough to be president of the united states? whoever it is is going to have to clean up a mess in washington d.c. you need a strong president to test it, experience to go down and do the job the right way. i think you'll continue to see us move forward and move up. i'm ready for any channels in front of us and look forward to milwaukee in two weeks. >> i'll make up a question here we can put to you about new jersey. you sort of made your name
saying you could work across the aisle and take on unions and then you had an issue with making the pension payments and you said it would present the state with a fiscal. you skipped the payments, the union sued and now the new york times says mr. christie said the state could not afford to make the payments he promised in the law. that's left new jersey with one of the station's largest pension liabilities and a record nine credit downgrades from wall street rating agencies. what do you say to that? in this article they claim you lost in your economic plans. >> looks like your correlation is over, chris. >> i'm shocked that the new york times doesn't like me. what's next? you're going to tell me i'm not going to star on the racheal mad house show tonight? we put reform saving over 1,230
billion dollars. i'm not going to raise taxes on the hardworking people of new jersey to give bigger pensions to the folks in the private sector of my state who put -- in their health benefits and give a 2.4 million benefit out. >> you're right. >> some are saying connecticut is going to look like puerto rico. you've gone in there and tried to reform things and yet we hear nine credit downgrades. is the problem just too big for one governor to handle? >> no, it's not too big for one governor to handle. the fact is i'm continuing to handle it and continue to work hard and get the legislature to do it. they're in the throws of their masters. the fact is you got to continue to fight against that. i fought against it the last
time we won and i'll continue. let's not forget no one was talking about this crisis until i came to new jersey in 2010 and began to put it on the front pages all over the place. we're fighting it and made big strives forward. you need someone whose going to tell the truth about this mess in washington before it gets worse. i'm the only one out there with the entitlement plan and tells the truth about the fact that the social security trust is a myth. >> i want to go to mark. first, i got to say absolutely shocked what some people on the stage were saying about social security and medicare. suggesting that we could do nothing. they sounded like paul. they didn't sound like
conservatives. >> the american people know the truth. the truth is these entitlement reforms are out of control and get it. they want someone to come forward and they'll get taken to the cleaners again. that's the simple fact. look what's going on in washington d.c. the republican congress promised them they wouldn't cave in to barack obama or nancy and they did it. you need a president down there whose going to provide the tough leadership that needs to be provided in order to bring our government back to some discipline. i've made up the plans to do that. listen to the folks up there who say we're going to dprgrow out this problem and some magic dust will be spread on it and it will be okay. we're going to protect social security and do it through common sense measures. the other guys are going to whistle a happy tune or hillary clinton is going to raise taxes to do it.
>> you've not raised as much money as others. lots of donors watch morning joe. speak to the donors who thought jeb wasn't the person and explain to them why they should bid on you now. >> who do you want stantding on the stage in september to take on hillary clinton? she's going to be tough and she's going to be a real headache for us come next fall. who do you think is going to be the person tested and ready and mature and tough to be able to take on hillary clinton? that's what it's going to take to win. it's going to be the person who can take the hits, hit right back and make the case for
america's future against hillary clinton. i'm the person hillary doesn't want on the stage for 15 seconds, believe me. if i get on the stage next september, i'll tell you this, she won't get within 10 miles of the white house. >> thanks so much. congratulations on what most of us consider to be a great debate performance. >> look forward to seeing you guys in new york soon. >> see you soon. >> steve, if people do care about the facts and the numbers, you're right, chris christie is the most responsible last night on the plan. it wasn't pixy dust. it wasn't we're going to tithe 10% and the economy is going to match. the numbers don't add up. >> he says that the people get
it and you have all the other candidates up there with completely responsible plans. nobody seemed to react to it. everybody seemed to say okay. for a party that's suppose to be conservative, i don't get how these guys will go out there and say this stuff over and over again and not be held accountable. >> this is the reason why donald trump and ben carson are doing so well. republican politicians have over promised for 30 years. they've said propostrous things like a 10% flat tax. >> they make these outrageous promises and get elected and don't do it. and then the republican presidents say they lied to us.
>> steve said nobody followed up on it except for kasich. >> i agree with everything. i agree with chris christie about taking on hillary clinton. i think he could spark with her more than most on the stage. isn't unanimousnew jersey going important. i don't think a downgrade as a new york times bias. >> let's talk about this because he inherited a horrific situation from john. just an absolute nightmare. he pushed for reforms and the question is as a connecticut resident, i'm curious. is new jersey like connecticut
so deep in the hole this is going to be a decade long problem or a generational problem crawling out of the hole of these massive pension debts? >> well, a whole series of things. he's right he did inherit a terrible economy. he's done some good stuff. it was a deep hole and i think if you look at how new jersey's done from when he got there, he's underreformed. especially compared to somebody like kasich. one other thing he did that hasn't gotten as much attention, he cancelled plans for two more train tunnels between pen station and new jersey. >> build two tunnels into the
city. >> they pay a piece of it. >> how did those two, how do the credits downgrade and massive new infrastructure? >> he may have to do things like raise taxes aproud of having vey toed the bills. >> just like connecticut, they're going to move their companies to north carolina and to florida and move their accompany to taxes. i mean, raising taxes in states like california, new jersey, new york, connecticut is not an option. >> then you have to cut other services. you can't have a viable economy unless people move between new
jersey and new york safely and efficiently. >> it's a mess. >> still ahead, chuck htodd and michael steel joins us. eric cantor joins us as well. the your watching morning joe. we'll be right back. we live in a world of mobile technology, but it is not the device that is mobile, it is you. real madrid have about 450 million fans. we're trying to give them all the feeling of being at the stadium. the microsoft cloud gives us the scalability to communicate exactly the content that people want to see. it will help people connect to their passion of living real madrid.
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he does what he thinks is exped yant and he's looking at the numbers and saying this doesn't seem to work out great when i attack him. so he's moderated and that means he's a smart guy. >> with us now moderator of meet the press and host of mtp daily. >> every day. >> chuck todd. >> every day. and in bolder, colorado analyst
and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steel. >> chuck was just saying everybody was like. >> you say last night when they came in the spin room, it was like a wake. >> it was like oh my god, i can't believe what happened with bush. in the rubio world there was glee. >> it wasn't suppose to happen. >> it wasn't like did this really happen. >> it's an easy one. >> he's going to be in this race for a while, right. >> all the poles show it was donald trump by a margin.
most of the people talking said cruz, rubio and christie had break out moments. really the headline could be jeb bush's water gate. >> they're going to have to do a public sacrifice of some sort. it could be does mike murphy have to come back? you can make a move once legally. who knows what they do but they're going to have to throw something. >> i will be honest with you. at this point i don't know what they can do. >> well, i think the overall picking is cruz, christie and rubio had a great night. i think trump had a very, very successful night. >> for what he needed to do.
>> an effective night. >> donald trump read off prepared remarks. last night, if you really are smart about politics, last night was a first for donald trump when he realized less was more. donald trump in for the long run. >> he had a really bad moment. >> because he bullied his way out of getting caught, becky said this was on your website he in his way, it could have been a really bad moment for him.
he had an ear piece. she should have had details with her. >> and along these lines, i've got to say this about marco. you're a florida guy and i'm a florida guy. i think it was becky quick who went down the list about proving things about marco's foreclosures and all his problems talking about lying. marco said i'm not going to answer those lies.
>> he deflected it. >> did he lie or not? >> i don't know what your definition of lying is. he tried to say discredited. >> is becky telling the truth or marco rubio? >> becky was telling the truth. >> and yet everybody's going oh marco was great. no, marco lied about his financial. >> donald trump also point break lied in a blatant way. >> there was a referee there. they're called the debate moderators. they had the job of calling fouls, calling balls and. >> i hate when girls try to make
unsuccessful sports analogies. but there was someone there that was suppose to say that in the moment. i think marco rubio was brilliant. the best defense is offense. he went on offense every time he was hit by jeb bush and the moderators. trump wrote the book. he's been doing it for six months and not paid a price for not always being truthful. it's their job to advance their candidacy. >> in the end rubio became more relatable to viewers at home and got to plug his book too. all in one sentence. >> so michael steel, you were criticized for the way the debate process went four years ago. you've got to be feeling pretty good about yourself right now. i will say this year has been the worst series of debates i've ever seen in my life on the republican side. every single debate except for
anderson. on the republican side they're all train wrecks and got cha questions. john harwood opening up by making a clown reference to donald trump and saying you have as much of a chance as flapping your wings and flying away as much as the opening question in the debate. how much longer are we as republicans going to have to listen to the moderators whether it's on fox or nbc which are suppose to be two conservative outlets? >> i don't know how to party handles there.
i think this comes down to the candidates from here on out. i think they have to get in the room, their teams get in the room with these networks and say we'll just walk off the stage. we're not going to stand here and be your pin cushion for dumb questions. the reality to come out of the box. when you look at the democrat debate and this debate and the fact that you're going to lead by calling these guys clowns and name call the candidates and you're going to put them in a defensive box instead of coming straight out with a policy question, you have a tax plan xyz. >> by the way, anderson cooper asks tough questions about democrats. he didn't make it about himself. he asked tough questions. i just don't get why these republicans and it's happened for years. debate moderators first question for republicans will be like tweeting questions about
evolution and why the world is on fire. >> i think the candidates decide if this is how we're going to be treated we walk off the stage. >> if i were donald trump and ben carson we would get together and say we're not going to show up if there's more than five people on the stage. >> i can't watch this. carly fiorina, hardly saw her last night. >>. >> jeb bush had more questions and had more time. >> she forced her way in. good for her. >> criticizing the questions and criticizing the formatt.
i would say anybody who moderates a debate, there was nothing wrong with the questions and nothing wrong with what megyn kelly asked her. there's interview questions that belong in a one on one interview because maybe you're trying to draw somebody out and there's questions that belong in a debate and they're different. debates with not interviews. i think sometimes that's always the challenge. by the way, this isn't easy. it's not easy, i've moderated debates and john has moderated plenty of great debates. i think everybody has -- >> it's not easy. it's certainly not easy. i quake in my boots every morning i come out here. it's hard. >> we're all living on one viral moment. >> you've got a one on one with a guy who this is the guy of the
moment. jeb bush, where does he go from here? >> no matter what happens, this is the moment. either this is the moment it all came to an end or this is the moment he hit bottom. >> thank you both. wow. coming up, eric cantor. the best part about watching congress is it isn't his problem anymore. i like that. the former house majority leader joins us next to talk about whether paul ryan can restore order and more great moments from the incredible debate last night.
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tomorrow we are turning the page. we are not going to have a house that looked like it looked the last few years. we are going to move forward and unify. our party has lost its vision and we're going to replace it with a vision. >> that's house speaker paul ryan declaring a new day. 45-year-old wisconsin republican is going to be the youngest speaker if more than half a century. one of ryan's so-called young guns. former house majority leader eric cantor.
not too young gun. >> i'm not that much older than them. when they call themselves young guns. >> eric. we got to talk first of all about the debate. i know you're a jeb guy. i love jeb. i've told people privately, you know, a year ago i was going to be voting for jeb bush. he was one of the best governors i've seen. most say he had a bad night last night. would you agree with that? >> it was a tough night. you know you've been elected office and been through debates. certainly, these campaigns as well as serving are long hauls. they're marathons. so you're not going to win or lose an election on the debate but yeah, it was a tough night. >> it was the night everybody said he had to perform well or else the dumber class would go for the exits. that's a real fear this morning, right. >> i don't know if i'm buying into all that about it.
i agree with you about his track record in florida. he was the only one on the stage last night who can demonstrate eight years worth of results for the people of his state. frankly, as you know, there's a mess in washington right now. it starts at the top. barack obama and the policies that have been put into place and then the situation in congress have just left the american people out and jeb bush really is the only one with the resume and with the policies and know how to get to work to fix that mess. so again, i think that we're going to see eight more of these debates. three months until the first vote is cast in iowa. >> i don't know about breathlessness but i think you, i'm not sure i would be that cool about it either because we're looking for someone who can solve those problems and take a look at jeb bush taking on a freshman senator. take a look last night. >> i'm a con stit-- marco, when
signed up for this, this was a six year term and you should be showing up to work. literally, the senate, what is it like a french work week where you get three days you have to show up? you can campaign or resign and let someone else take the jb. there's a lot of people living paycheck to paycheck in florida that's looking for a senator to fight for them each and every day. >> i don't remember you ever complaining about john mccain's vote record. the only reason you're doing it now is somebody convinced you attacking me is going to help you. here's the bottom line. it's not about attacking anyone else on the stage. i will continue to have tremendous admiration and respect for governor bush. i'm not running against governor bush or anyone on the stage, i'm running for president. there's no way we can elect
hillary clinton. >> anybody, we cannot believe it, eric. this is incompetence on jeb's part. he delivers, marco delivers that line that somebody's told him to deliver and you think governor this because it will help you. someone has told you at that point you do not let them keep talking. you talk over them. and say marco, just do your damn job or go home. he doesn't do it. he just set there. it's like he dropped his dplglo and said please hit me in my face five times. anybody. eric, you would have said that and also said marco, you're comparing yourself to barack obama and john kerry. okay, you want to be barack obama and john kerry, you can. i'll compare myself to ronald reagan. >> i already said it was a tough night. it was a tough night. >> oh my god. oh my lord.
you don't win or lose an election on one debate. >> i think you do. i think it might have happened. >> no, you don't. >> really? >> you got another debate in 11 days. there's eight more of them. come on. this is about staying power and about having the resources and the people in the early states which jeb has. he has more support on the ground. in my state of virginia we are very focussed on making sure he wins when it comes to our primary guys. listen, this is a marathon here. >> the marathon may be over soon. paul ryan, speaker of the house, pretty cool stuff for guys like you and me, right. >> listen, i'm super excited for him as you know. paul was a reluctant entrant
into the speaker's race. he really does want to go and focus on the kind of reforms that he's been working on formerly as budget chairman now. to fix the tax code in this country and solve the entitlement problem, there's a lot he wants to do. unfortunately, washington, as you know, that dynamic with having barack obama and the white house unwilling to work over the last several years, you know, i'm not so sure how much is going to change as far as results are concerned but paul is going to be very focussed o d trying to at least set the table on what the discussion is going to be about in 16. >> eric cantor thank you very much. >> great talk. >> still ahead, last night mike huckabee refused to go on the attack against donald trump. >> you know, as few questions i've got the last one i need is
give him more time. i love donald trump. he's a goodman. i'm wearing a trump tie tonight. get over that one. >> was that made in mexico? >> i don't know. >> made in china or mexico? >> by the way, such a nasty question but thank you, governor. >> let me tell you, donald trump would be a better president every day of the week and twice on sunday rather than hillary. i've spent a lifetime in politics fighting the clinton machine. >> that was a great line. >> oh my goodness. >> great line. we're going to get the governor's review of his own performance last night. we'll be right back.
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which could be serious. pay no more than $15 per prescription for 12 months. eligibility restrictions apply. learn more at toujeo.com/info or call 800-580-3421. also, 9 out of 10 medicare part d patients can get toujeo® at the lowest branded copay. ask your doctor about the proven full 24-hour blood sugar control of toujeo®. mike huckabee joins us from bolder, colorado. >> is that a trump tie? >> no, it isn't.
>> they are great. >> you know, they are. this is not one. i told them last night after that little exchange. i said okay, buddy, you owe me a tie. >> or two. >> governor, we've been talking about not just this debate process but also fox. a very conservative network one that we work for, you and i both have tons of friends. the fox debate was a mess, the cnn debate was a mess. last night it seemed like a mess. if i'm tuning in to see you or carly or other candidates, it's like i wait two hours and get very little. how do we make this process better? >> well, i think there's got to be an attempt to have questions that really focus not just on what do you think about an issue because that can be a very carefully rehearsed line. what we're missing in these debates is getting in the heart, character and soul of the candidates. what makes them tick? you're not electing a president
because he can give out a nice answer and make a speech. you're electing a president because in the moment of crisis when the unexpected happens, that person has the maturity, the seasoned judgment to make a tough decision and to be able to live with the consequences of it and i think sometimes we've turned this into a game show. you know, jump in and get your answer in and joe, for god sake, this is an important business. and those of us running, we're doing with serious intent. i feel like the whole process has gotten out of control and become a tv show rather than a thoughtful process of selecting someone with a temperament and judgment. >> the republican debates have been shocking. the democratic debates were straight up. >> i don't know if this was strategic or not, i think it was smart on the candidates side not
going after each other. that was a great moment between you and donald trump even wearing the tie. given there's so many of you and given how you are in the poles, how are you going to distingish yourself from the votother candidates? >> let's keep in mind this point four years ago cane was running away with it. neither one of theme made it to the start line very well. so you want to know how to do it, win iowa, get attention and then go and win one early state like the ncaa march madness. i don't care how much money you have or what else you do, you can be kentucky and unbeat and the truth is, if you don't win early contest, you don't end up a nominee. . so what we liked you, you have o
go over organizing and winning in early states like iowa and new hampshire and if you don't, i don't care who you are and what your bank account is, you're not going anywhere. >> steve ratner? >> governor, we've all talked about the problems with the debates formats. last night you said you repeated the importance of emphasizing social security and medicare benefits. my question is, how are you feeling about running into the trillions of dollars? >> steve, first of all, i don't sound like a liberal democrat. i believe america ought to keep his promises. the social security is not an optional program. every check i've ever had, you've ever had, something other than a dividend check, every check, the government took money out of it and set it aside for social security. the fact that they squandered
your money is not your fault. i mean, bernie made madoff sits in prison because he squandered it. obamacare took $700 billion out of social security. why are we not screaming bloody murder? we have people that supported t.a.r.p. i want to know, when are we going to be honest with the american people, we mugged you? that's what we did. we mugged you. it's a moral obligation. it's not an option to make sure we pay the social security benefits. steve, a legitimate question. how do we pay for it? part of the reason we're struggling with social security is because a dwindling number of people pay into the system because fewer people are getting their wealth anymore out of wages. they are getting it out of dividends and capital gains. so the fair tax, which i
support, a tax on consumption, creates a much broader and more consistent revenue stream from which to pay those benefits. >> former governor, mike huckabee, thank you so much. >> thank you, mike. and governor, come back and let's have some fried squirrel sometime. still ahead -- thank you, mike huckabee, presidential candidate carly fiorina is on deck. she'll be our guest as well. dy'l still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do, drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance.
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i'm running for president of the united states. i'm running with heart. i'm not a performer. if they are looking for an entertainer in chief, i'm probably not the guy. if they are looking for results, 32 in the business sector, probably the most conservative in the last 30 years in the country, i'm their guy. >> you seem quite frustrated. >> no, not frustrated. >> no? >> no. i wish i got to answer questions on things on the minds of people, entitlement challenges, the debt. i've got fantasy football, you know, it's important, i guess. >> it's important, i guess. >> where do we begin? good morning. it's thursday, october 29th. >> that was a big mess last night. >> with us on set, former communications director george w. bush nicole wallace, former treasury official and economic analyst steve ratner and in
boulder, colorado, manager editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin. who won? there's a couple of losers, that's for sure. >> yeah, there are a couple of losers. it was just a terrible bag. >> it was a mixed bag of moments. >> it was one of the worst debates i've ever seen in my life. it really was just a horrible, horrible, confusing cluster. >> some trying people shined, i think. >> i think one of the moments is when jeb talked to marco. >> you can see jeb bush going into a kill and then things turned around. take a look. >> i'm a constituent of the senator and helped him and i expected that he would do constituent service which shows me he showed up to work. he was the most talented guy in the field. he's a gifted politician. but marco, when you signed up for this, this was a six-year
term and you should be showing up to work. i mean, literally, the senate, what is it, like a french workweek? you can just resign and let someone else take the job. there's a lot of people living paycheck to paycheck in florida. they are looking for a senator that will fight for them each and every day. >> i don't remember you ever complaining about john mccain's vote record. the only reason you're doing it now, someone has convinced you that attacking me is going to help you. here's the bottom line. my campaign is going to be about the future of america, and not about attacking anyone else on this stage. i will continue to have tremendous admiration against governor bush. i'm not running against anyone on the stage. i'm running for president and there's no way we can elect hillary clinton. >> so david frum tweeted,
"incompetent questioning, yes, but this was the most important debate to date. it finished off the bush campaign". >> i was stunned by his lack of response as to what marco said. this is not something. this is something that doesn't take one second. >> in terms of mccain, obama? >> first of all, i am your constituent. you work for me. i voted for you. i stuck my neck out on a line and you're telling people that you can't even show up for work. secondly, you're comparing yourself to barack obama and john kerry? really? i'll tell you who i'm going to compare myself to. ronald reagan. because like reagan, i went to work every day for eight years whether i liked it or not, whether i was frustrated by little legislatures like you or not. i woke up every morning, i worked hard for the people and, you know what, if for some reason i couldn't have, i wouldn't have kept drawing the
paycheck. but nothing from jeb. no response from jeb. no response from the rest of the stage. the incompetence in the follow-ups and marco had another thing where they talked about his financial problems which are all very well documented, he goes, that's just a why and didn't answer. no follow up and it's all very legitimate and all very real. so i thought the inkpi tense on the stage, other than, you know, you had a couple of people that did extremely well and we talked about -- >> well, it seems like a lot of people are saying marco won the night. it's more that bush lost the night. there a places that he could have gone that he didn't go. >> i agree with you, though. it wasn't marco. ted cruz won one part of it. marco won one part of it and at the end -- >> christie -- >> if you look at all of the post debate polls, trump won
them. >> marco rubio was questioned over his campaign money and it came up again last night. >> you liquidated a $68,000 retirement fund that caused you thousands of dollars. it makes people question whether you have the -- >> i'm not going to waste 60 seconds detailing it all but here's the truth. i didn't -- >> first of all, that's just -- steve ratner, he just lied. he just lied to people. again, if he wants to lie, politicians lie. and if he wants to lie, that's fine. but nobody follows up and says, "you're lying, marco."
it's mind boggling how incompetent so many people on the stage were. >> this is all discredited. but the circumstance is fully documented and you can decide whether it makes himress qualified to be president, all of the stuff with his i.r.a. and his cars and mingling campaign money and personal money, that's been documented. >> you know what he said that just got about anybody watching that's raising kids, he said, i am raising kids in the 21st century. i want to give them a better life than i had. regardless of whether the attacks are true or not, i think he got himself off on offense. >> they were true. >> i think if you're watching, he created a moment of empathy. >> but that's the -- the thing is, everybody last night was going, oh, my gosh. so great. no, it's not that he was so great. it's that so many other people -- they just sucked.
>> oh. >> i was blown away. mark halperin, i want to go to you. you've been talking about this republican field that's been called the strongest and best in the years. you said their scale has been exaggerated. i thought the inability to respond to student council president -- you can tell that they were in homeroom and say, let's say this about super pacs. and there's no response. where are the grown-ups or the pros on the stage other than chris christie and donald trump and who else -- >> they are two young aggressive ambitious senators that have the
momentum from the debate to prove that the upside they showed on the stage can be moved to support by voters. cruz has done well with donors. let's see if rubio has done well with donors. it's in full panic. they were deeply unsettled before the debate. they are now in full panic and then the one silver lining for jeb bush in what was a truly disastrous night, they are getting what they want and what they've been trying to gin up which is more scrutiny from marco rubio. >> you can say one thing in the debate and if you don't tell the truth, let's talk about who the people think won the debate. >> online surveys show donald trump has the overwhelming favorite from last night. 46% polled by "time" magazine say trump won the debate. an online poll taken by cnbc has
trump in first with 46% of the vote. i felt that they were sitting back and ignoring him. rattner has already discussed this. >> online poll shows trump at 56% of the vote. and i will say this, willie, i thought that for donald trump -- i think the big head line out of this is the waterloo moment but donald played it pitch perfect. he laid back and associated himself with ben carson at the end. there were no attacks against ben carson. and he just -- for once -- after that first question, i'm sorry, we told the truth about fox who i love so many people over there. i've got to tell the truth about john harwood. the first question was absolutely embarrassing. it was a megyn kelly-style question. oh, it's so bad that you have no
more chance of flapping your wings and flying out of here. he called him a comic book -- first right out of the debate again. i said, here we go again. >> trying to make a splash right out of the gate and donald trump smacked it down. most of those candidates, especially ted cruz out there, gave long speeches about the moderators, about the media. and that was probably the most memorable. >> cruz was brilliant. and came at the right moment. he came and went through every question about why it's unfair. >> willie -- unlike marco rubio, in homeroom class, you know, it was like, this could be funny. ted cruz what happened in realtime and through it back at the moderators and it may have been the moment of the night. >> take a look.
>> the questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the american people don't trust the media. this is not a cage match. and if you look at the questions, donald trump, are you a comic book villain, ben carson, can you do math? john kasich, will you insult people over here. marco rubio, why don't you reseen? jeb bush, why have your numbers have fallen. >> the men and women on this stage have more ideas, more experience, more commonsense than every participant in the democratic debate. nobody watching at home believes that any of the moderators has any intention of voting in a republican primary. the questions that are being asked shouldn't be trying to get people to tear into each other.
it should be what are your substantive solutions to -- >> so good. so good. that's a debater. and i tell you what, for me, my report card, ted cruz and chris christie fought on their feet. wasn't that a great moment? >> good call. >> what he did so perfectly, though, we talk about how trump has the numbers that he has because he's tapping into republican angst. ted cruz tapped into republican rage against the mainstream media and called out the moderators in realtime. every republican watching at home felt what ted cruz put words to and then had the courage to say on television. >> said it in realtime instead of these student government like written down, calculated responses. and then when he says this -- no. cruz in realtime just went right
after him. >> see, most people -- it's interesting to hear your take on rubio because most people thought that was a terrible moment for jeb and a great moment for marco rubio. >> it was a terrible moment for jeb bush because he couldn't respond to a simple barb where you had marco rubio comparing himself to barack obama and john kerry. if you can't respond to your opponent comparing himself to barack obama on a debate stage, you just need to go home and do other really cool things. that's what my point is. sure, it was a good comeback for marco, but you have to know when you say something, there's going to be a response and then you've got to have a response to the response. he stood there flat footed after marco compared himself to barack obama on a republican stage. >> and then you get the feeling, mark halperin, that jeb bush
thought that was going to be a mic drop moment. there was rubio coming right back at him. when you look at the sound bite of governor bush saying i'm not a performer, that's part of the job. you're not handing in your resume for the job interview. part of this, a big part of this is performance. >> if jeb bush performed flawlessly last night in this campaign, bush fatigue may stop him from being the nominee. he did not perform flawlessly last night. it's something his campaign has been pushing but i thought it was a misguided attack and, as joe said, the performance of the counterpunch to the counterpunch was not even close enough. they are talking about his campaign and whether it will continue and make it iowa.
>> let's talk about that, mark. nicole came in wearing black today. the death march is on. >> the black is for the cnbc moderators. >> oh, my gosh. a couple of them did well, i thought. let's talk about jeb and the death watch. >> really, you know i love jeb and you love jeb but it's not looking good. the donors are running for the exits now. it's going to be hard for him to raise money after this, isn't it? >> it's good that he has so much, right? >> he doesn't have that much. >> he doesn't have that much. >> well, if he fails, it will not be because of money. it will be because of what jeb bush articulated in the hallway to dana bash after the debate. jeb bush said in his own words, i am not a performer. and unfortunately, you don't get
to go govern being face-to-face with your constituents unless you put on a face for the candidates. it's like you don't get to be a mom without going through a pregnancy. there are certain parts you have to perform. >> don't pick a fight with me. i'm just saying, nobody did it more truthfully than jeb bush after the debate. >> mark halperin, death watch. is it on for jeb bush right now? >> well, it certainly is going to be what the chattering class talks about the gang 500 will say and he's done. i think nicole is done, with all due respect, on the money question. the super pac has got the money and how can erase hard dollars going forward? he's doing an interview on "meet the press" on sunday and he cannot underperform. he went into last night with everybody around him. everybody around him in houston at the family meeting there said, okay, he's going to have to perform in boulder and he
will but he didn't. i think marco rubio has to do two things. not necessarily leaving bush but a lot of people on the sidelines and then there's that question about rubio beyond the scrutiny. will voters be excited about him now? >> still ahead on "morning joe," presidential contender carly fiorina joins the conversation and, later, our post debate economic roundtable with cnbc's sarah eisen. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. can a business have a mind?
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let me give you one quick example, these folks at cnbc, they had it down to 3, 3 1/2 hours. $250,000 for a 30-second ad. i went out and said, it's ridiculous. i could stand up here all night. nobody wants to watch 3 1/2 or three hours. it was a big sacrifice and i have to hand it to ben, we called ben, he was with me 100%. we called in, said, that's it, we're not doing it. everybody said it couldn't be done. everybody said it would be 3 hours, 3 1/2, including them and in two minutes i renegotiated it down to two hours so we can get the hell out of here. and i'll do that with the country. >> just for the record, the debate was going to be 2 1/2
hours. >> that's not right. >> he's absolutely telling the truth. i would guess "the new york times" reported extensively on donald trump's efforts to shorten the debate. >> also, they didn't want to do opening statements. trump fought them back on that. >> it was whether or not they need to be standing there. >> trump was exactly right. >> it's documented. >> by the way, that was his closing comment. again, i will say, donald trump has taken on cnbc and he won. he had a fight with fox and nobody ever beats roger ales. he fought him to a draw. that does not happen with roger. but people look at that and go, wow, he's right. >> i love the leap he made in his closing statement. i can handle these jokers at
cnbc with putin. >> exactly. and then an interesting night for john kasich. >> yes, it was. the ohio governor has been upping his attacks in recent days on two of the front-runners. last night he went after both ben carson and donald trump for what he called fantasy tax proposals. >> i'm the only one on this stage that has a plan that would create jobs, cut taxes, balance the budget and can get it done because i'm realistic. you just don't make promises like this. why don't we give a chicken in every pot, coming up with these fantasy tax games? we're just cleaning up. where are you going to clean it up? this stuff is like fantasy, just like getting rid of medicare and medicaid. it's not responsible. folks, we've got to wake up. we cannot elect somebody that doesn't know how to do the job. you've got to pick somebody who has experience, somebody that has the know-how, the discipline. >> this is the man that was a
managing general partner at at lehman brothers when it went down the tube. lehman brothers was the managing partner. he was so nice. he was such a nice guy and he said, oh, i'm never going to attack. his poll numbers tanked and that's why he's on the end and he got nasty. you know what, you can have him? >> oh, my gosh, that's why he's on the end. mark halperin, somebody tweeted last night -- i saw two tweets on this. it's colorado so it should be pot in every chicken instead of a chicken in every pot. and then somebody said, did kasich's advisers tell him to shout every answer? no. it's the opposite of the john kasich we saw in the previous debates where he was soft spoken and he was going for sort of the
more moderate -- >> reporter: he believes what he's saying, that the unwiseness of a few plans that they've put out, his execution was not even close to or at the right pitch. you have to be happy, which he is and wasn't in the beginning. simple rule in politics, if you try to kill the king, you must kill the king. he lunged, he missed and i don't think he ever really recovered and took what he wanted his argument to be for the next 100 days leading up to iowa, that these guys are dangerous to the party, he took his big shot at it and failed and it's going to be hard for him to get a national platform to make that argument again after failing so miserably last night. >> it's very interesting that happened early in the debate and sent a very strong message to
everybody else on the stage and this is the genius of donald trump. you punch me, i'm going to tear you to shreds. and that sent a message and mika called me after that and said, watch. nobody else is going to attack donald trump tonight and, sure enough, they all stayed away from him because kasich tried it and it didn't turn out well at all. >> what it told me as well -- you say this is not factually accurate. >> they weren't holding marco either. >> he will pay no price from his voters. >> neither will marco rubio. >> what is so bizarre is nobody is being fact checked it because the voters don't trust the people doing the check. trump seemed to have done more thinking about how he would respond. trump is evolving. >> by the way, that was a very disciplined -- you're right.
it was very disciplined. >> let me go to steve rattner. tell me what you thought of trump's attacks and go through fact checking issues, follow up on that. >> i thought trump was great. he really was prepared. he punched and it worked. he punched below the belt in the fact that john kasich was not a managing general partner of lehman brothers. that was way off the mark. look, the biggest problem with last night, in my opinion, you have a bunch of candidates out there claiming to be fiscally responsible hard rights with plans that are crazy. trump with a $10 trillion tax cut, bush with a large tax cut. even somebody like rubio, he's got a $2.5 trillion plan that
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the man who led my firing, tom parkins has come out and said, we were wrong, she was right, she would be a great leadership for the united states because that's exactly the leadership we need in washington, d.c. >> it's interesting that you bring up mr. perkins because he said a lot of very questionable things. last year he said he thinks wealthy people should get more votes than wealthy people. if you pay zero dollars in taxes, you should get zero votes. if you pay a million dollars in taxes, you should get a million votes. >> well, this is one of the disagreements we had in the board room, becky. >> the debate watch party, take a look.
would it be terrible to say finish me? >> she doesn't stop. >> no, she doesn't. >> joining us from boulder, colorado, republican presidential candidate carly fiorina. carly, great to see you. >> good morning. >> that was hard fought for talk time. >> you know, what it so interesting, i said, i wanted to hear more from you. i wanted to hear more from other candidates. this is getting so frustrating. at what point do all of the candidates rebel and say, you know what, you can get five of us for 90 minutes, five of us for another 90 minutes? this is no way to run a debate process and elect a president, is it? >> well, no. and i was arguing for three hours, actually, for a debate because i think when you have ten people on stage, two hours goes by pretty fast. on the other hand, it's also true that voters make their decisions based on a whole lot of information.
these debates are important but they are not the end all and be all, as our national polls are not the end all and be all. people in iowa and new hampshire want to shake your hand and look you in their eye and have you in their living room and gymnasium. we just need to remember that in the end voters win elections. voters have to vote. so these are important opportunities, especially for me. i remain the least well-known candidate. there are important opportunities for me to introduce myself but they are not decisive in and of themselves. >> also joining us from carly, kathleen parker from "the washington post." you've got a question. >> hey, good morning, everybody. >> good morning. >> carly, you had a great fight and it was nice to see you smile, i have to say. among the many interesting things you had to say, when you started talking about budgeting and getting back to zero-based budgeting, that's the first i've heard anyone talk about that. can you elaborate about what that means and what that
entails? >> yes. thanks for asking, kathleen. i talk about this every day out on the campaign trail. the truth is, we have no idea where our money is being spent. appropriations hearings are never a discussion about a whole budget. they are only a discussion about an increase over last year's budget. and every government agency rushes to the end of the fiscal year and spent all of their money, whether they need to or not, because they never want to be asked the question, why didn't you spend all of your money? this is how government has gotten bigger and bigger and more inept. we need to go back to the basics. we look at every dime and every dollar that every agency has to justify every dollar spent every single year. there is a bill sitting in the house that would do this, of course, like so many other things. it's just languishing there. we never have tax reform,
entitlement reform and part of the reason they never happen is because we never get to the basics that will enable those things to happen. so let us start with zero-based budgeting. let us start with holding government employees accountable. imagine if you're one of the government employees that is trying really hard to do a good job and the guy next to you is watching porn all day and there's no difference. imagine how disparaging that is. it happens all the time. >> carly, hold on for a second. willie geist is not on the show today. it's unfair for you to bring him up and his work habits. so we're going to wait for willie to come back to defend himself against the charges. >> oh, come on.
1.5% growth. here we are, 1.5% growth, 2% growth and we've got -- i'm sorry, we've got all of these clownish proposals about, you know, flat taxes that are going to -- you know, and a plan that will blow a $2.5 trillion hole in the national debt. how do we grow the economy realistically? you've always been realistic in this campaign about what can and can't be done. how do we change that 1.5% growth without this pie in the sky proposals? >> well, there are two things that we know would create jobs. one, small businesses. so small businesses create two-thirds of the new jobs they employ half of the people. we are experiencing a net loss of 70,000 small businesses a year. that means we're not growing our economy. the only way to get small
business growing and growing again is to start rolling back some of these regulations that have spewed out of government for decades or particularly in the last six years. the second place that we know will create jobs is if we actually became the global energy powerhouse of the 21st century. look, we're sitting in a place right now where iran is now permitted to export their very dirty, heavy crude. venezuela can export their very dirty, heavy crude. but americans, american producers cannot export much cleaner burning like sweet crude. we know that the energy industry is being held back by regulations. keystone pipeline is just but one example of the job. so two places we know would create jobs. small business and energy. and both of those potential job creators in this economy are being held back by what? government. government.
it's an example of what i mean when i saw, this government has become so big, so powerful that it is literally crushing the potential of this nation. and in this case, it is crushing the job creation potential of this nation. the only way we get the economy growing and growing again, the only way we balance the big and powerful and small and powerless is to roll back the power of government. >> miss fiorina, you scored a lot of points yesterday by honing in on phony capitalism and focusing on the merging we're seeing by large companies across the board that's really, in your opinion, disturbing, the smaller companies still trying to stay afloat. >> that's right. >> we're seeing a potential merger at pfizer, health care mergers right, left and center. people are talking about your record at hp and the merger with compaq. do you regret that merger now? >> that was a big segue.
not at all. it's been described the most successful merger in high-tech industry. it was. it needed to consolidate after the dotcom bubble. technology is the least regulated industry in the world and that's why it delivers a better function year after year after year. on the other hand, pharmaceuticals, who helped write obamacare? the health insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies? they helped write that law because they were trying to make sure that the rules worked for them. once the law was written and it has unbelievable power in the hands of government and government regulators, these big companies have to bulk up. it's the same reason the companies bulked up. they then get bigger to balance the budget and the small are getting crushed. it would be fantastic, if, most
importantly, the health inks was as competitive as the technology industry. we would get a lot better service at a lot better prices. >> all right. carly fiorina, always good to have you on the show. good to see you. congratulations on last night. >> thank you. we want to go right to cnbc sara eisen with more on the gdp numbers. >> 1.5% growth in the last three months. very disappointing number. the bad news, it's a sharp deceleration from what we saw the quarter before. you don't want to see in this stage of the recovery a 1% number on economic growth. but there is good news in this report buried beneath the headline and that is consumer spending, the backbone of this economy. it actually held up relatively well. if you take out inventories, which is basically just companies stockpiling some of their inventories over the last few months, you get a real read on the consumer on the housing
market, on trade. that number actually stayed at 3%. so, the headline, not so great, beneath the surface, not all that bad. add it all up and actually wall street is looking at a down open. but still, nothing severe and that's because the focus on wall street, guys, is still on the federal reserve. what do they do with this number? they hinted that they are still thinking about raising interest rates in december. we'll see what that does to the markets today. >> in december it didn't come as a surprise either. just slightly below expectations. >> do you really raise interest rates for the first time in ages when you have 1.5% growth? >> you're holding out for so long now that it's become the elephant in the room. >> cnbc's sara eisen, thank you for that. we'll be right back. you like that pretzel? yea.
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i use the tything analogy. >> if you look at the numbers, you probably need to get to 28. >> the rate is going to be chooser to 15%. >> 15% still leaves you with a $1 trillion hole. >> you still have to get rid of all of the deductions and loopholes. you also have to do strategic cutting. >> that was ben carson explaining his tax plan at the debate last night. joining us now, business and tech correspondent for nbc news olivia sterns. let's start there. explain ben carson's tax plan. >> he's going back to the bible. he had to search for the numbers. first of all, isn't it incredible that we have an election cycle in which we have multiple candidates talking about a flat tax rallying against the 1%. you know who a flat tax helps the most? the 1%. it's incredible. ben carson himself doesn't seem to be able to find the numbers. it seems like what he's doing is
double counting corporate revenues and says there isn't going to be a tax deficit which even the tax foundation, which you know, is right leaning and says a 15% flat tax ends up with a $1 trillion hole. the numbers don't add up. >> they don't add up in a lot of these, in carson's ads, we're already at 18, $19 trillion. none of these plans seem to add up. >> very true. none of them seem to add up. probably what we should be talking about is what chris christie is talking about. the only person actually talking about practical cuts for spending, for cutting entitlements, for cutting social security and medicare. >> did anyone else's plan add up? >> i was actually impressed with carly fiorina, who you were just speaking to. she was trotting out the traditional gop and u.s. gdp was
an opportunity for all of the candidates to hit on. as we said, 73,000 pages. >> kathleen parker? >> what is the best argument? you say carly has the most realistic approach. but let's put her in a debate, the much coveted and most desirable debate against hillary clinton, how does she present a tax plan that would significantly diminish hillary clinton's position? >> i'm not saying that carly fiorina has the most practical tax policy. probably chris christie has the tax policy that most closely establishes the three-tier tax rate bringing down tax rates across the board. >> okay. but then you take it back to
last night and the one person who called out these quote/unquote fantasy plans was kasich. when you look at the numbers this morning and look at where the candidates stand -- >> john kasich was the first budget chairman to balance a budget in a generation and then he went to ohio and he did the same thing. one of the biggest debates in america that he did on capitol hill. i was there when he balanced the budget, nicolle, and when i say everybody, everybody said he couldn't do it. he balanced the unbalanceable budget. >> why isn't that resonating with the other side? >> i don't know. >> and i think kasich would beg to differ. look at his job creation in ohio. >> kathleen, who stood out to you last night? >> i'm sorry? >> who stood out to you last night? who do you think prevailed? >> i think chris christie did very well.
his straight talk, blunt assessment of things resonates very well with everybody, not just republicans but it's true that what he says, the government lied to you and has stolen to you, that's pretty harsh but when it comes to social security and it kind of -- it's pretty true. >> it is true. they've been stealing from the trust fund for years now. >> i think everyone actually did better than they've done previously except for perhaps jeb bush. >> jeb bush. >> but i think christie was really on his toes. >> kathleen, olivia, thank you. that does it for us this morning. msnbc live picks up coverage after a quick break. have a great date. ideas are scary. they come into this world ugly and messy. ideas are frightening because they threaten what is known.
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