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tv   MSNBC Live With Kate Snow  MSNBC  November 4, 2015 12:00pm-2:01pm PST

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>> reporter: yes, good afternoon, kate. i think this is a significant development. the british government didn't say that it had any hard evidence. it certainly didn't offer any evidence. but this is the government investing its authority in this. it came from the office of the prime minister initially. and it's clearly based on intelligence. the british government saying we can't categorically say why the plane crashed but as more information came to light, we became concerned that the plane may well have been brought down by an explosive device. we understand that the british information or intelligence did not come from the wreckage but from some other source. now, the black boxes are being examined here in cairo. we understand the flight data recorder is in good condition. the cockpit voice recorder is damaged and no information has been gleaned from that yet. so it could be that the british intelligence or information is
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coming from other sources. remember, david cameron spoke to egypt's president last night on the phone and tomorrow the president will visit listen don on a state visit. ties between britain and egypt are quite close, quite tight. and remember, britain has some experience in this field. in december 1988, a bomb was smuggled on board pan am flight 103 which exploded over locker by, scotland, killing all those on board. the british went through a minute forensic examination of that debris. eventually finding a piece of circuit board the size of a fingernail and a timing device and that linked the bomb to libyan intelligence. so the british with v a track record on this. it may be a coincidence, kate, as well but it's the same day that isis repeated the claim it downed the plane. they said we did this, we don't
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have to tell you how we did it. but it coin sides with the first anniversary of our sinai affiliate pledging allegiance to isis and, indeed, that bit of it it is true. isis didn't offer new evidence or new details on how it might have bombed this flight but, kate, when the british government says something like this, there is a lot behind it so i think it is a very significant development. >> bill, you said that the british government may not be getting this from evidence on the ground in egypt so the suggestion is that perhaps they have other intelligence? >> reporter: yes. a source has told nbc news that it has not got any information from the wreckage on the ground. but look. british intelligence like u.s. intelligence and, for example, german intelligence, it is strong and they have a long history in the middle east. so we can only -- the other interesting thing, of course, is
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that britain monitors isis and jihadi communications. a lot and we have an example, for example, richard reid, the shoe bomber trying to blow up an aircraft, he was a british jihadi. britain is deeply involved in monitoring jihadists. we don't know exactly where britain is getting the information, the intelligence, the evidence and didn't offer any. there's an emergency meeting of britain's security cabinet. we are promised a statement after that meeting so some of that may become more clear at the moment all flights from britain to sharm el sheikh, the main airport in the sinai peninsula suspended. britain is sending security experts to that airport to check it out. and egyptian and russian investigators have been all over the airport checking everyone who had access to that plane on saturday so the focus of attention now on that airport and as far as britain is concerned, on the possibility
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that this was a bomb. kate? >> all right. bill in cairo, 10:00 there as we head into the evening hours in london, as well. for more i'm joined by president and investigation analyst at roman and associates, former commercial pilot anthony roman. good to see you again. >> good to see you. >> we have spent a little bit too much time together this week talking about this plane. we don't know what information the british government has and certainly telling they're saying we're suspending flights into london. >> i think when a government like the british government makes a statement like this everyone has to pay attention. but the intelligence in the area is clear. there are many militant groups and in the last several years prior to the current government there was basically an arms b bazaar in egypt. arms were sold everywhere. you know, abundance of concern here i don't think is a problem.
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>> in terms of that airport, sharm el sheikh, what do we know about airport security in that part of the world? i know the faa has put out directives prior to this warning about that region. >> well, i think they have special problems. again, we have many militant groups. they're well armed. they have their missions in mind. and so, you know, the egyptian military is reasonably effective preventing serious attacks. sharm el sheikh. however, the future potential exists and is greater than in most regions. however, airport security, all over the world, even at major international airports, from my sources and my own observations, does need a bit more attention. it is nowhere near as good as it needs to be. >> what would they be looking at, investigators, right now, not just the black boxes but physical evidence? looking for if it's a bomb, assuming they're looking for fragments and residue? >> sure, sure. with pan am flight 103 they took
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almost a year to come to a conclusion as to what caused it and it was a tiny bit of evidence that finally -- >> bill referenced it. >> the size of a fingernail. we have a, you know, a very long investigation in front of us. this airplane and many pundits cited that the airport is not old. it was old in terms of flight hours. it had 56,000 flight hours. its life limit is about 60,000 flight hours and airbus had an extended maintenance program for structural examination and maintenance, frequent intervals. if it was to exceed 60,000 hours. bomb, structural failure, those are the two primary things i believe we'll be looking for. >> anthony roman, good to have you with us. thanks so much. we're following reports of active gun fire in the last hour in downtown san diego. specifically, near that city's
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little italy neighborhood. police right now telling people to stay inside. and shelter in place. until further notice. nbc's joe fryer is following the developments out of the los angeles bureabureau. >> we are about three hours into this now. a gunman firing shots from an apartment complex with a high-powered rifle and doing it in an area and there's a huge area cordoned off. about three blocks by three blocks and police telling everyone who lives in the area to stay inside, to shelter in place. even to take cover and they're not letting anyone else into the area. reporters who have been in that area even just a couple blocks from where this is happening have been told periodically to get on the ground. so the situation is on going right now. throughout the afternoon, and throughout the morning, the sounds that have filled the air loud booming sounds, some of those sounds have been the gunman opening fire and police tossing teargas grenades at the
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suspect. trying to get him to surrender. they have been trying to negotiate with him and so far no luck in trying to get the suspect to stop firing. at this point, no reports of injuries but police say it's still early to know for sure if anyone is hit by any gun fire. this all started around 9:00 this morning local time. police were responding to a domestic violence call. they actually got inside the apartment and that's when police say the suspect started firing at officers. officers returned fire and were able to get out safely. and that's really with when the standoff s.w.a.t. situation began. this is located right next to san diego armt. just a few moblocks away. there's a ground stop that impacts arriving flights. no arriving flights right now. san diego airport. however, departing flights are still happening. this is having a broad impact and the reason the arriving flights have been stopped is because that's the flight path
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that actually goes over this active shooting situation. kate? >> all right. joe fryer watching that for us, thanks so much. also in california, police are still on the scene of a stabbing on a college campus. five people were stabbed in front of a classroom at uc merced. this morning according to the university. two of them were transported by medical helicopters. officials say the suspect was killed by officers at the scene. nbc news's jacob rascon with the latest. jacob? >> reporter: the school saying grief counselors are on campus to comfort anybody that needs it and witnesses saying it started as a fight. they heard screaming, saw it happen outside a school building and in the end as you said five students, the school says, were injured. stabbed. but all conscious and expected to survive. witnesses then said they saw the suspect, the person with the knife, laying on the ground over a bridge. this is just nearby the building where the stabbings happened.
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police saying they were forced to shoot and kill this person. what we don't know right now is whether the person that stabbed the students was a student himself. or whether he was visiting campus or for some other reason. the investigation is ongoing. grief counselors are on scene. the students stabbed expected to survive. kate? >> that's good news at least. jacob, thanks so much. straight ahead, to the campaign trail we go with new nbc polling showing which republican candidate to fare best against hillary clinton in the general election. and veterans and troops honored at moving ceremonies during pro sports games turns out the leagues were being paid by the pentagon to do it. two senators uncovered millions in spending. jeff flake joins us with what he learned about the deals.
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we are back following presidential politics and a busy day on the 2016 campaign trail with many of the leading republican candidates fanned out across the state of new hampshire. today donald trump travelled to the state capital to file for the primary ballot there. also in new hampshire, jeb bush who's barnstorming the state with five separate events continuing on the jeb can fix it tour. not to be outdone, marco rubio in the granite state, as well, as the rise in national polls coming with increased scrutiny of the record and speaking of polls, new numbers of nbc news/"wall street journal" poll found that ben carson tied with hillary clinton. the only republican surveyed who doesn't trail the democratic front runner a head to head matchup. for his part, the current republican front-runner opted for florida instead of new hampshire today and continues the book tour there with an event beginning in just a few minutes with dr. carson.
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we have all of it covered beginning with nbc's chris jansing tracking the carson campaign. chris? >> reporter: well, ben carson is now on his way to two more appearances here in florida. every book buyer, a potential voter, trying to build on momentum of polls showing him not just leading the republican race and now neck in neck with the democratic front-runner hillary clinton. but being the front-runner means you are a target. he's had a little back and frort with dmp ant trump's appearance on saturday night live and so we asked carson about whether he would insist on equal time. here's what he said. >> do you plan on watching? >> no. >> would you do "snl" if asked? >> no. >> why? >> because i think the presidency is a very serious thing and i don't like making light of it like that. >> reporter: you can see that he doesn't let donald trump rattle him. while ben carson is out on the book tour continuing through the week, the top strategists are back in virginia at campaign
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headquarters looking for ways they can raise more money focusing hard on the early battleground states. new hampshire, iowa, nevada where they have ads running and focusing on getting the money in. they just told me this morning that in the first two days of this month they have raised a million dollars. they're going to be able to keep those ads on the air in those early states until the voting starts. kate? >> chris, thank you. for more on the bush campaign, kasie hunt in new hampshire where jeb bush will be holding a town hall. kasie? >> reporter: good afternoon. and where mitt romney spend the summer vacations and as you say bush will be here on his final stop of five today. trying to show he's making a recommitment to winning here. i was talking to one of his strategist earlier and their
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strategy here is really to focus on the fact that new hampshire voters don't make up the minds until late in the process. oftentimes, the last seven days before the primary. so their goal to put him in front of as many people as possible and try to counter the narrative coming out of the debates and this is in the voters i talked to last night, we saw a very fired up jeb bush at a barbecue with senator scott brown and talked to those surprised to see how forceful he was and maybe feeling sorry for him, having seen him in the debates and didn't think he would come across in a strong way and surprised him. more people in the state to put him in front of the better for him and will be here again tomorrow and then probably again the following week so expect to see quite a bit of him here in new hampshire, kate. >> all right. kasie hunt following jeb bush, thank you so much. for more analysis of the 2016 race, we are pleased to have with us long-time "wall street journal" columnist and author of
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the new book just out, "the time of our lives" peggy noonan is with us. so nice to see you. >> wonderful to see you. thank you. >> i'll take advantage of your expertise first off to ask about the current state of the republican field. just recently former chief staff of george w. bush john sue new new said i have no feeling for the electorate anymore. the priorities are so different. i would be making up the analysis. do you have that feeling, too? are you feeling confused by what's happening with the electorate? >> i do. i'm going to give you a short answer and goes back a little bit in time. in 1976, ronald reagan went up against sitting president gerald ford in a huge battle. aimed at answering one question. will the republican party be a moderate liberal party or a conservative one? reagan eventually answered the question through the popularity and the landslide.
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the republicans became a conservative party. my sense of what's happening on the ground right now among republicans is they are in a tussle to define, they're a conservative party and trying to figure out what conservatism means in the 21st century. what that means, what it consists of. that's why nothing is predictable and people are doing all sorts of things that weren't expected and why three people, trump, carson and carly, if you will, sorry not to use the correct names, getting like more than 50% of the likely republican electorate. we have never seen a year like this. it's not -- it's the most exciting i think since '76. >> definitely exciting. your most recent column, kind of hard hitting against jeb bush. it was called "the not ready for prime time bush." i speak of his candidacy in the past tense which is rude though i don't mean it rudely but it's
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hard to see how this can work. for me, impossible. >> yeah. >> strong words, peggy. >> i know they are and i must admit i'm skeptical six months ago and a year ago. i don't see jeb bush -- you have to be open to surprises. especially this year. we don't know when's going to happen but i don't see jeb bush having an obvious and significant part of the republican base. i do not see him yet or experiencing him as a gifted candidate. i don't see how this works. but who knows? we are all going to sit back and watch and surprises happen. >> things happen. let me ask about the book. i'm halfway through it myself. it's a collection of a lot of your columns, speeches. you talk about one of the most famous speeches you ever wrote, the challenger speech, for ronald reagan. after that disaster in the sky that we all -- some of us of a
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certain age remember. initial the speech itself. i want to listen to a clip of it and ask you how you got there. >> the crew of the space shuttle "challenger" honored us by the manner in which they lived their lives. we'll never forget them or the last time we saw them, this morning, preparing for the journey and waved good-bye and slipped the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of god. >> i was tears in my eyes reading your recollection of writing those words for him. >> yeah. that is from a lecture that i gave at a university full of kids who were going to graduate and probably go into government and i wanted to say to them, it's the only speech i mention in the book but i wanted to say, you know what? you're going to go into government, you will have the days where you're going in, just marking time. everything's average. everything's usual. but let me tell you, sometimes something happens and you're going to have to bring your best
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self and your best professionalism. you're going to have to bring your best game to meet that moment and that is what happened in the reagan white house for all of us when this sudden and shocking and also very personally painful event happened. >> if you could write a speech for donald trump right now, how would you approach that? >> well, i write columns about donald trump, you know what i mean? >> right. >> i write columns and commentaries and i review the speeches of people like donald trump. and i -- i listen to his work with great interest. is how i would put my approach to him. >> yeah. the book is as i say filled with a lot of your work over the years. what stands out the most to you? one thing that stood out to me is you talk about putting things online and people immediately
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react. respond. >> yeah. there are so many things in the book -- i mean, the heart of this book is that it was 30 years in the making and also for me a labor of love because it's everything i've written, every commentary or column or essay or op-ed piece that i still really like. do you know what i mean? that i think kind of stands up that meant something to me that still can make me laugh or still kind of fills my eyes with tears. i found -- i realized as i wrote the book that i was something of a pioneer in that i was a columnist on the internet at the time that the internet was just beginning. and as you mentioned, you know, it wasn't like being scotty reston or walter lipman in the '30s, '40s or '50s. my column goes up at 12:01 a.m. and a response at 12:03 and often, you are such a big idiot.
quote
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why don't they fire you? it was so fascinating and yet after 9/11 that comment section became a vibrant, moving community in which everybody was trying to get through that terrible day together and it was really quite something and never quite gone away. the readers then are the readers now. i am fortunate and privileged to say. >> well, the book is "the time of our lives." peggy, thank you for perspective on so many different things today. thank you. >> thank you. >> following a controversy of some of your favorite sports leagues and the pentagon. the moments you see a military member sing the national and them or carry out the flag? a congressional review found those moments are often actually paid for by the department of defense. orchestrated through contracts between the dod and the teams. senators john mccain and jeff flake are calling it paid patriotism. >> what's upsetting is that when
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you see activities like this that people assume when they go to games are paid for out of the goodness of their heart by the owners and teams and then to find out the taxpayer is paid for it, it cheapens the whole lot. >> kelly o'donnell is on capitol hill following that story. kelly? >> reporter: good afternoon, kate. this is a thing that people will say was i duped or deceived and did i see a tribute getting people on the feet and singing the national anthem and hand over heart and was there a transaction? now, of course, u.s. military has to do recruitment and there's a budget that goes with that and it includes marketing across all of the branches and national guard as fwhel various states around the country. is there an issue with putting a price tag on these demonstrations of respect and tribute to veterans and our current active duty military?
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that got this going. the senators mccain and flake saw that within the contracts with different sporting leagues and teams there were elements written into the contract that go beyond typical recruitment to include the ceremonial events that people enjoy and would probably think happen as a consequence of sort of national pride. not so in certain instances. now, the department of defense has given a lengthy statement to us about this saying there's a difference of community outreach and recruit m. and it really is a case where it might be in the eye of the beholder but this practice should be coming to an end because of the work of mccain and flake in the new defense bill and that could outlaw this practice for good. kate? >> all right. kelly o'donnell on capitol hill, thank you. joining me is the man you heard from, arizona senator jeff flake with republican senator john mccain are the ones shining a light on the activity. senator flake, good to see you.
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>> thank you for having me on. >> you have spoken to some of the team owners d. they know about the deals? >> not ones i spoke to. my guess is that the management of the team probably didn't know either. just probably the marketing people. most were of course surprised to hear this. >> nfl commissioner roger goodell sent you a letter and it says they're conducting an audit and that, quote, if we, the nfl, find that inappropriate payments were made they will be refunded in full. have you had a chance to speak with the commissioner? >> no. not since that letter. i think that that's a great gesture and i think that the league, the football league, certainly, responding quickly and i suppose the others will, as well. they do so much good on their own, have done and will do and so when you find instances like this, and fortunaempb unfortuna
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few of them, i think people will have a bad feel in the mouth when they know about this. >> how did you discover this? >> we were looking at draft day at maybe some example of waste. we look at that. we issue something called pork chops about every week looking at wasteful spending. we thought is there anything in the nfl? we needed something timely to issue the report on. we looked at a contract with the new york jets and found some of this, salute to the hometown heroes. and we had a hard time getting the department of defense and national guard to actually give us the information. it's been like pulling teeth, frankly, to get the dod to respond. senator mccain, his office and my office, working on this for a while. we ultimately discovered 70-some contracts with some element of paid patriotism in them. >> tomorrow is game day for the nfl and sunday.
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what do you expect to happen? will there be the ceremonies on the field? you're not saying don't honor our nation's military. >> keep doing it. it was done before these were paid and will be done after and not all of them have been. it's just like i said about 70-some contracts with elements in there. so i just -- i know that the dod has said that they'll ban the practice in the legislation the defense authorization bill which the president should sign coming up we ban the practice and so i suppose there will be a lot more careful writing the contracts in the future. >> senator flake, thank you so much. >> thank you. straight ahead, a shocking twist in the dpet of the on duty police officer that sparked a massive manhunt in illinois.
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manhunt, authorities now say police lieutenant charles gliniewicz, a 30-year veteran of the force died by suicide staging his own death as he came under increased scrutiny for criminal activity. initially, it was believed he was killed in the line duty. back in september after he radioed dispatchers he was pursuing three suspects he was schenn found shot to death with his own gun hand. john yang is live in illinois following the latest twist in the case. >> reporter: kate, really, a remarkable series of disclosures today. gliniewicz carefully staged the scene to make it look like he was in a confrontation with other people, he went as far as shooting himself in his bullet-proof vest. they say that shot probably knocked him backwards and left a 4 x 4 bruise on himself. investigators say that what made them look at the physical evidence differently were a trove of e-mails and text messages that he had deleted but
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were recovered by fbi experts at virginia. they talked about taking money from a fund used by the police explorers group, a group for young people who want to get in to law enforcement. they say he used thousands of dollars from that fund for all sorts of personal purposes including personal travel, personal loans and adult web scythes. in one, he warns that if someone doesn't start paying money back into that account think'd be talking to him in jail. the file text message came the day before he committed suicide when he said that the village administrator called him in and that she wanted a complete accounting of that account. kate, back to you. >> all right. john yang in illinois, thank you. up next, campaign upset. the polls predicted it wrong. now a tea party favorite will take over as governor of kentucky. will he follow through on the
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nissan. innovation that excites. tuesday's election was a win for conservatives nationwide but the biggest story of the night was probably in kentucky where tea party candidate matt bevin who challenged mitch mcconnell last year and lost upset jack conway to take the governorship. >> this is the opportunity for kentucky to be a beacon to the nation, the values that we hold, the principles that we hold, the work ethic that we hold. the high road that we'll take. this will change the tenor of what happens in the 2016 race. it truly will. >> he ran a campaign mainly on social issues including defunding planned parenthood and defend defended kim davis and here with
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me to break down the results is reporter james homan. good see you. >> great to be with you, kate. >> why the upset? >> yeah. it's really stunning and it's a low turnout election. the off year elections, not many people turn up. conway lost to rand paul back in 2010 and also what was a winnable race and also with low turnout, which side get it is base out. matt bevin turned out evangelicals with backlash of same-sex marriage and planned parenthood over those videos that got released. >> walk us through what it means policy-wise for the people of kentucky. he wants to change a lot of things. >> it is interesting. he was the tea party challenger. i don't think he's going to be quite as conservative necessarily as he campaigned. back during the four-way republican primary earlier this year, he promised to undo the medicaid expansion given half a
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million kentuckyans access to health insurance and over the course of the campaign, a red state, he backed off of that. final debate before the election, coin of saying that he would slightly narrow eligibility, maybe require people to pay some kind of premium but not kind of talking about pushing people off of the health insurance. so we'll see how far he tries to go now that he actually has power but if he does try to go far it sets up the stage for the first real effort to roll back the medicaid expansion under the affordable care act and quite a fight. democrats still control one of the two legislative chambers in kentucky. >> there was also a talk about what he might do for the coal industry in kentucky. >> yeah. the democrat had actually -- only attorney general among the democrats to sue the obama administration over the epa clean power rule but bevin promising to go even further. he'll push really hard on coal
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but the other issue that's interesting is right to work. kentucky is one of the very few states that does not have a right to work law in the south. bevin said that's the top economic priority and pushing that through, it's another blow to organized labor across the south in what's been a couple rough years for them. >> james, thanks so much. >> thanks, kate. coming up, america's biggest drug threat. police say heroin outpaces methane some of the 2016 campaigns are focusing on getting help to abusers, not criminalizing them. en minutes ce you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. yeah, everybody knows that. well, did you know that playing cards with kenny rogers gets old pretty fast? ♪ you got to know when to hold'em. ♪ ♪ know when to fold 'em. ♪ know when to walk away. ♪ know when to run. ♪ you never count your money, ♪ when you're sitting at the ta...♪ what? you get it?
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government's not going to do it. i can appreciate you want an answer to this crash right now. everybody would like to have answers as soon as possible. most especially the family that is are grieving. but the investigators are still at it and we got to give them the time and space to do their job. that's the responsible thing to do here. meantime, it is the responsible thing to do for the united states government to tell its workers don't go to the sinai right now. until things settle out, until we know a little bit -- >> has the last basic assessment from the u.s. was from clapper that you can't rule it out. has it -- have you upgraded that assessment even one iota? are you still saying we can't rule it out or are you just in the dark to intelligence that it appears others like the brits -- >> i don't think weer in a position right now to rule anything in or out. >> that's a state department spokes john kirby. saying they're not ruling
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anything in or out. turning the politics now, the topic of drug abuse gaining a great deal of momentum on campaign trails with candidates on both sides fielding questions on the issue and sharing personal connections to the epidemic. in a recent poll, 25% of new hampshire adults said that drug abuse is the most important problem facing the state with jobs and economy coming in past that at 21% and 9%. in a video that's gone viral, receiving close to 4 million views on facebook now, new jersey governor chris christie opens up about a close friend of his from law school addicted to prescription painkillers after a back injury. >> by every measure that we define success in this country, this guy had it. great looking guy. well educated. great career. plenty of money. beautiful, loving wife. beautiful children. great house.
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he had everything. he's a drug addict. and he couldn't get help and he's dead. it can happen to anyone. and so we need to start treating people in this country not jailing them. we need to give them the tools they need to recover. because every life is precious. every life is an individual gift from god. and we have to stop judging and start giving them the tools think need to get better. >> joining me now to talk about what all of this attention means is sam author of "dream land." sam, thanks for being with us. >> great to be with you. >> you heard chris christie and not the only one, jeb bush just in afternoon in new hampshire again talking about his daughter's struggles with prescription drugs and ted cruz talked about his he have sister, carly fiorina, hillary clinton. this seems to be one of the themes of the campaign this
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year. how much has changed politically that our candidates are talking about this? >> i think it's a huge change and it's been relatively recent. i would say that if you had interviewed me a year ago or even nine months ago i would say that -- i would have said that most folks weren't talking about it because parents weren't talking about it. they were mortified, ashamed that the loved ones were addicted, kids were addicted. what's happening is seeing parents realizing that just staying in a darkened room and crying and grieving as difficult as that is, they're becoming -- coming out of the closet, coming out of the rooms and their being very public about it an they're asking candidates, these candidates now are hearing them on the campaign trail. in new hampshire, in iowa and various states. all across the country. where people have lost that shame and realized the only way to really stop this is to be public about it. is to talk about these stories that once gave so much shame to certain families. >> this isn't the war on drugs
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now. is it? the tone of what politicians are saying, even republicans seems very different than just ten years ago. >> i think that's what's most interesting is the tone that the republicans take, some so much the democrats on this. the republicans safely elected with tough on crime talk for years, a generation really. since the reagan years, i think. and now that tone has changed and many red states in recently in kentucky and many red states you see this change taking place where republicans may have an easier time elected than democrats but a republican who's viewed as not compassionate on this issue i think has a whole much more difficult time getting elected than someone viewed as compassiona compassionate, supporting alternatives to prison or the street which is a lot of parents see their kids ending up. >> we have talked those parents. i know you have, too. what needs to happen. when you talk to people dealing
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this addiction, what policies do they want for easier access to care? >> i think expansion of treatment in jails, i want expa of treatment in jails, easier access to the antidote to a heroin overdose. just expansion of treatment. a lot of folks are becoming aggressive constituents of obamacare because obamacare funds drug treatment. for many people that never had access to it before. but i think they're wanting politicians and leaders to take a more active role about this, to talk more about it, and to lead the way in destigmatizing it. i think this is what happened during the aids epidemic, you saw a destigma itization over the years. and folks whose loved ones are
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addicted are leading that now. admiral kirby continues to get asked about reports of a bomb aboard that russian airliner. we'll bring you what we learned from the state department after a quick break. ...become especially important. from the makers of one a day fifty-plus. new one a day proactive sixty-five plus. with high potency vitamin b12... ...and more vitamin d. can a a subconscious. mind? a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul?
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we're back with breaking news on the russian airliner that went down over the weekend. over the weekend, a u.s. official telling nbc news the evidence indicates it was a bomb that brought down the russian airliner. the official said the investigation is focusing on the possibility that isis sympathizers were directly involved in the bombing. we're continuing to speak to our sources and bring you more as soon as we have it. in ohio, voters rejected an initiative that would have made
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marijuana legal. supporters are not backing down. in response to the vote, lachey tweeted, while i may not agree, the people of ohio have spoken and that's the way it's supposed to work. change takes time. #democracy, #respect. tony, is it over, or it sounds like nick lachey is going to keep fighting? >> well, it is over for nick lachey, because not only did his initiative fail but a second one passed that prevents him from bringing it back next year. this was brought by an outside group. none of the national group supported it and it has a provision that gave investors like lachey exclusive access to growing all the marijuana that ohio would consume if it passed. it was a pay for play politics
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and that seemed to have turned off voters more than marijuana alone. >> sorry, tony, somebody was talking to me at the same time you were wrapping up there. thank you so much. i'm going to go to -- go ahead. >> okay, no, go ahead. >> i apologize. i think we have the breaking news on the russian airplane. and i apologize to you, but we turn back to the pentagon to jim miklaszewski. jim, are you there? >> i am, kate. >> fill us in on the breaking news. >> a u.s. official tells nbc news that evidence indicates that it was indeed a bomb that brought down the russian airliner over the sinai last weekend, and that investigators are looking at the strongt possibility that isis or isis sympathizers may have been involved in a possible bombing of that airliner. now, according to the officials, investigators are taking a keen look at ground crews there at
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sharm el sheikh airport, baggage handlers, food handlers and the like. because there's no indication in the intel scrub of the manifest, of the passengers of the crew members, that anybody aboard the plane had any sort of contact with any kind of militant organization. so they're taking a look at the security at sharm el sheikh airport, the employees there on the ground, as someone who may have been able to plant an explosive device aboard that airplane. now, all of this right now is not conclusive. nobody is saying that there indeed was a bomb planted by isis, as isis has made the claim that they brought down the airplane. but apparently the evidence is significant enough to at least send investigators off in that direction.
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now the u.s., while counterterrorism officials and other american officials are looking closely at this, they are not directly involved, according to people we're talking to, in the investigation on the ground there at the airport. but as one can imagine, the concern expressed by the british government today, the u.s. is equally concerned, because of, of course, isis and its ilk have threatened u.s. targets previously, kate. >> so, jim, is this the u.s. government, or u.s. official you're speaking to, saying that they understand what the british have done and what the british are saying, or is this u.s. intelligence separately also confirming that it was a bomb? >> u.s. officials -- no, nobody -- they're not confirming. they say the evidence indicates that there was a bomb aboard that airplane and they're looking into the possibility that it was isis operatives or sympathizers who may have been involved in any possible bombing of that airplane. but the evidence is significant
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enough that it's raised deep concerns, as the british prime minister said earlier today, that this is a distinct possibility. and of course as a distinct possibility, everyone has their guard up, to look for any possible follow-on terrorist attacks if it is indeed that is what happens. now the investigation is still proceeding and again the u.s. is not directly involved as far as we know with the egyptians and/or the russians in terms of this investigation, but they are watching it closely. again, because threats have been made against the u.s., but not only isis, but al qaeda and its operatives there in that region. >> so, again, to reset here and to use the appropriate language, jim, a u.s. official telling nbc news that evidence indicates that it was a bomb that brought down the russian airliner over egypt over the weekend on saturday.
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can i ask you also about what you mentioned, jim, the intelligence scrub, that they did of the passenger manifest, explain that more. so they looked at every single passenger to see if there was evidence of ties to groups. >> indeed. once the passenger manifest and the names of the crew members were made available, intelligence agencies, particularly in great britain and the u.s., around the world, were running those names through every kind of intelligence data they had, the terrorist bank, if you would, of intelligence, to see if there was anything that indicated any possible connection. and according to officials we're talking to, it was determined very early in this process that apparently the passenger list, the number of passengers on board and the crew members came up clean with regard to any
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possible connections to militants or terrorist organizations. >> mick, if you can stand by, i want to go to bill neely on the ground in cairo. bill, you're hearing news, a u.s. official telling us that evidence indicates it was a bomb. that's a huge development from where you're sitting. what do you know about what investigators are doing where you are in cairo and on the ground at sharm el sheikh airport? >> what jim has just told us, it's interesting they're using the word evidence, because the british government is not using that word, and indeed, hasn't offered any evidence. from britain, the word is, it seems intelligence, that they have grave concerns that a bomb may have taken down the plane. you mentioned what's going on, on the ground in sharm el sheikh, we understand tonight, the head of the airport may have been fired. and there are extreme concerns,
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a british team arrived at sharm el sheikh tonight, about three hours ago, and already it seems they and perhaps the russians and maybe the egyptians themselves have uncovered very lax security procedures at that airport, involving people having access to the runway after only one brief security check. and it's understood that the british are recommending and the egyptians are going to go ahead with this, that they bring in extra bomb-sniffing dogs to check the food, for example, that's brought into the plane. over the last few days, both russian and egyptian officials have been questioning all those who had access to the runway and specifically to that plane on saturday afternoon. so caterers, cleaners, and baggage handlers. but it seems tonight there's evidence of very lax security
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procedures at sharm, and that the head of the airport, not just the head of security, is being replaced, has been fired there. so clearly there is something that everyone is focusing on. number one, isis being the culprit, and number two, this being centered on sharm el sheikh airport. and of course don't forget, the british government and britain has a long history of a knowledge of planes that have been taken down with explosives, pan am 103 in 1998, a bomb was loaded onto luggage and exploded over lockerbie, scotland, killing all those on board. so the british intelligence services have some history on this and do monitor isis very closely indeed. but from britain and the u.s., everything now seems to be pointing, whether it's intelligence or evidence, to strong concern that it was a bomb that brought down this plane. kate? >> and to bring our viewers up to speed, we're not saying -- the officials are not saying who
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might have delivered such a bomb. but just that the evidence indicates that it was a bomb. officials here in the u.s. said the investigation -- one official said the investigation is focused on the possibility that isis operatives or sympathizers were directly involved in the bombing. again, they're focusing on that as a possibility. tell me a little bit more, bill, about the airport in question. you just said lax security. are planes running in and out of there even tonight? i know the british have said they would suspend air operations going into britain, but there are presumably other airplanes flying in and out of that airport. >> yes, sharm el sheikh is a tourist destination, mostly therefore serviced by charter aircraft. for example, there were at least five british charter aircraft, easyjet, thompson, which were due to fly out of there with about a thousand people on board tonight. those flights have all been
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canceled and no flights are going from britain into sharm. i understand that the irish authorities are taking the same measures. yes, tourists come from all over, especially europe into sharm. i think the figure of russians going into egypt, and it would be mostly to sharm el sheikh, is about three million a year. now, the airport did, we understand, have security procedures. it has the usual metal detectors and the usual things you have to go through, but it appears tonight there are grave doubts about how effective those security procedures were, and who exactly was allowed onto the runway itself. for example, we understand that policemen didn't have to give -- show any identification to get onto the runway. now, that is not normal procedure for any international airport. >> certainly not. bill neely, reporting from cairo. stand by there. i want to bring in tom costello who covers aviation for us at
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nbc news. tom, when we talk about airport security, it immediately makes me wonder, is this going to impact us here in the united states? will we see changes at airports? >> we should not. at least not immediately. although anytime you have a major security issue overseas, that causes the tsa to evaluate their entire protocol for checking passengers. but it's very important to make this point. any airport overseas with direct flights to the united states must comply with the tsa protocols for security. sharm el sheikh has no direct flights to the united states. and in fact, no airline, no u.s. airline overflies the sinai. earlier this year, in march of 2015, the faa put out this notice to airmen essentially telling them, if you are going to fly over the sinai, you need to be at least at 26,000 feet because of the risk of surface-to-air missiles on the ground and you must provide the
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faa with advance notice. but the faa telling nbc news, no airlines fly into or out of sharm el sheikh, or even over the sinai at this point. so those are important points as it relates to u.s. security. one more point about u.s. security and that is that the tsa has been on the hot seat about their security. we just learned yesterday that the inspector general managed to smuggle devices, or testing devices, past tsa screeners in september. so you can imagine that the onus is going to be on u.s. authorities and on the tsa yet again to upgrade the security, to look at the security again and to make this yet again a high priority. but, you know, kate, one last point, if this does in fact, end up being the result of terrorism, that's a big if, but
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if it is, this would go down as one of the biggest loss of life since 9/11 at the hands of terrorism. and i do want to make this point. we don't have any u.s. official definitively saying this was a bomb. we have u.s. officials saying there's evidence it may have been a bomb. there's still the other possibility, and that is that this was a result of a catastrophic break-up in air that may have been the result, for example, of that tail strike on the runway in cairo 14 years ago, and then a repair made to the plane, which then, if it wasn't done properly, might have come apart. so the only reason i make that point is because we don't want to go down this road of saying definitively this was a bomb. we have u.s. intelligence -- or military sources telling jim miklaszewski that increasingly they're concerned about that possibility. >> tom, a point very well taken. we have a u.s. official telling nbc news that evidence indicates
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it was a bomb. >> it may have been. >> well, i'm reading straight from jim miklaszewski's note, but you're right to couch this and say that we don't know exactly what has happened here, and we have british officials saying one thing, u.s. officials saying something else, and by the way, russian officials, earlier today discounted all of this and said, let's not get ahead of ourselves. >> to their credit, they said let's not get ahead of ourselves. and let's make the point who has what interest in this theater. the egyptians have a very valuable tourism industry which is the life blood of that economy right now. so that tonight is very much threatened by these reports coming out of the uk and the united states. russia, which just engaged with military activity with syria, potentially has a lot to lose if it's terrorism that brought down this plane, potentially for russian involvement in syria. so you can see the players here
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and where they might have competing interests here. as it relates to the investigators on the ground, the irish, the french and the germans. so those investigative bodying will help the russians and the egyptians pore through the evidence. >> i have anthony roman with me on the set. tom, thank you, and stand by there. appreciate that so much. you've been watching all this, you have a number of different investigating agencies. we're getting all these initial reports that perhaps maybe there's a link to a bomb. but it's confusing right now. and i imagine those investigators are working like mad at this very moment, trying to figure out what may or may not have happened at that airport on saturday morning. >> well, i think not only are the investigators working very hard at the airport, but the investigators at the crash scene and the international
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intelligence agencies as well. there was sufficient activity reported in the sinai that was picked up by intelligence officials, which suggested there was an anomaly. then the satellite picked up the heat flash, then we have an aircraft going down. all of that, coupled with communications, confidential communications by isis, following the crash, began to suggest to u.s. officials that maybe, maybe, a bomb was planted by an isis or isis affiliate on the plane. certainly that's not conclusive. and i think tom is very right to point that out. but in terms of airport security, very easy to get a bomb on board from that particular airport. >> that's a scary thing to say. have you been to that airport before? >> i haven't. but i've studied the airport and their procedures. and they're lax. >> this is an area where people
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from europe, russians, often go for vacation. it's a resort town. so you would think that perhaps they would have more stepped-up procedures there. you would think western europe would insist on that. >> well, you think they would, and you think they would comply. but i've been at other airports that don't fly to the united states. i was recently in a third-party country where the soldier had his mp-5 laying in a bin 20 feet from where he was standing. so security does get very, very lax. at our own international airports, security can be lax as well. we've seen that at brussels, where two faux police vehicles drove onto the runway and really had a problem there where they stole 30 million to $200 million
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worth of diamonds right from the point where the armored car was delivering the diamonds to the aircraft. this requires intelligence information, penetrating the outer perimeter of the airport and this is a major international european airport. so there are all sorts of problems that we have. >> joining us on the phone is nbc news terrorism expert evan coleman. you're hearing all of this develop this afternoon. we have reports now out of the british. we have a u.s. official saying that evidence indicates this could have been a bomb. what do you make of that, from your vantage point, as someone who studies terrorist groups and extremist groups? >> i think we need to take a step back here and take a deep breath, because there's a lot of speculation here that this is linked to terrorism and there's no public evidence to that effect whatsoever. there have been several would-be isis claims of responsibility for this possible suspected
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bombing, and yet none of these claims have any objective evidence whatsoever that would have showed isis was involved in this. when aqap carried out the underwear bomb plot, which was not successful, within hours of that plot, aqap had pictures of the bombers, they had definitive evidence that they could show to the world that they were behind that plot. and that evidence is necessary for a terrorist group that wants to prove its own propaganda. isis has displayed none of such evidence. nothing. and it's been vague. so if they have any such evidence, they haven't presented it. and the communiqués they've issued claiming responsibility, they've given no detail that explains how it was carried out, if it was an attack, was it a suicide bombing, they don't say any of that. so we have to be extreme careful. there's no objective evidence. obviously there's something that u.s. and uk intelligence are privy to, which has given them a moment for pause and at least
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given them the opportunity to consider whether this is something to do with terrorism. but at the moment, there really is no objective evidence to that effect. so i think we need to be very, very careful here. there are other reasons that there could have been an explosive decompression. i don't know that those reasons are any less significant or cogent or credible than a terrorist plot. but given the history, the safety history of this particular airline and given the maintenance record of this aircraft, i think those are the reasons that seem more likely to me than terrorism. again, not knowing specifically what piece of intelligence provoked the u.s. or uk, but there's been no definitive statements whatsoever. and we need to be very careful about jumping to conclusions. let's not forget all the reporting that came out after the german airliner that crashed in southeastern france.
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let's not forget about all the speculation that followed the disappearance of the malaysian airliner and let's recognize that most of that was bunk. and i think it's important here to focus on the facts and right now, all we know is that there was some type of explosive decompression. it's possible it was a bomb. it was possible it was a maintenance issue. that's all we know. >> evan, thank you so much. stand by there. and tom costello, he's absolutely right. we don't know what happened to this airplane. the reason we're talking about it right now, is because of things that we're hearing out of the uk, out of the british government and out of a u.s. official. give us some guidance. what would they be looking at right now to try to figure out whether this was indeed an explosive device? >> so three points i'd like to make on that. evan is absolutely right. the sourcing on this, though, the initial comment about this may have been a bomb, came from number 10 downing street, from
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the prime minister's office itself. that lends some credibility, as you know, because the british are generally reticent to fan public concern or hysteria. and the second sourcing coming from the u.s. government about the concerns it may have been a bomb. number two, to speak to how this investigate is going to go, and we discussed a moment ago, the multi national parties involved here, but to look for signs of a bomb, they'll clearly be looking for explosive residue, but also they will look for any pitting or pock marks on the aircraft fuselage, any of those tell tale signs of a bomb. also, there's a chemical change in the metal they can detect that will give them a sense of whether it was an explosive. and if there was an explosive, did it explode from the inside out and if so, from what portion of the aircraft did it occur? was it the fuselage, the fuel tank, the rear of the plane? all of that will be telling to them. even more important, to really underscore this entire
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discussion is that the seeds of you doubt have now been sewn, haven't they? because we have, as it stands, two countries, which i think from a western perspective, we often think of these two cunning being knee deep in conspiracy theories, so now we've got -- even if they come out and say it was not a bomb, that it was a metal urgey problem or some sort of mechanical issue, the seeds of doubt about a bomb have been planted which makes you wonder whether the final outcome will ever be taken as gospel once that's released. keep in mind that it was the egyptian airlines that crashed off the east coast of the united states, the ntsb determined it was likely because the pilot purposely crashed that plane. the egyptians took issue with that, have never accepted that verdict and have always claimed that the united states jumped to a conclusion. >> these can be incredibly complex investigations, tom.
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i just want to read from something andrea mitchell is reporting from washington. and again, all of my colleagues are working the phones right now, talking to as many people as possible. and andrea mitchell says that a senior government official tells her that are only two possibilities, a bomb on the plane, or a mechanical failure, which is what tom has been saying. but warns that reports that it's conclusively a bomb are, while likely, prematuurpremature. so the language is very careful here. a senior government official saying that while it is likely, it is premature to say that this was a bomb. a second official, talking to andrea mitchell, strongly suggests that it's likely a bomb. but it's too early to be conclusive. so, tony, this is what we've been repeating for the last many minutes, that we're getting mixed reports. we're getting a lot of officials saying likely possible, not conclusive. >> and i think that's exactly
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where we should be. it looks like it may be likely. however, we have to be very careful. there are other very real factors that could be at play here, that are not nefarious at all. that can have to do simply with maintenance and simply with the age of the aircraft. >> you and i have talked about this particular aircraft and remind us again, i think tom just mentioned this. it had an incident in 2001? >> 2001, that's correct. >> the tail hit the runway? >> correct. >> and that could have caused some damage? >> well, it did. >> but it could have caused non-repairable damage. >> correct. but they did repair it and what some sources are saying, the repairs were botched. we don't know that. the fuselage has to be examined at this point to determine if that's the failure point of the structural failure and therefore probably not a bomb. but there were other factors as
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well. an air worthiness directive came out on september 15th, 2015, by the faa, suggesting that connecting rods to the aircraft's back wing flight elevators, that's the part of the airplane that causes it to pitch up and down, based on the pilot control input, that those connecting rods to the elevators, could crack and break, and that would cause an uncommanded pitching moment of the aircraft. and if they lose control, they could disintegrate. >> and we don't know if that's what happened either. but you're saying that's another of the possibilities mechanically. we'll take a quick break and be right back with more of our coverage of the breaking news about the egyptian plane. this winter, take advantage of our season's best offers on the latest generation of cadillacs. the 2016 cadillac srx.
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we're following this breaking news breaking by the moment, with a number of different officials saying things about the plane crash in
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egypt over the weekend. i want to go back to the pentagon now and jim miklaszewski for the very latest from there. im, you' >> kate, a u.s. official tells nbc news that evidence is pointing toward and indicates that it in fact, may have been a bomb board the russian airliner that went down over the sinai over the weekend. and according to officials, they're looking at the possibility that isis operatives or sympathizers may have been involved in a bomb plot. and according to one official we talked to, asked directly if this was based on what isis had said earlier or suppositions or whether it was intel and the official indicated that there is some intel that at least indicates that isis may have somehow been involved. no direct evidence, but that's why the investigation is under way. now, according to one official,
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investigators are looking at the possibility that ground crews at the airport at sharm el sheikh, baggage handlers, food handlers and the like, may have been involved. if indeed it was a bomb, in planting the device on the airplane. and reason they're looking so hard at those ground crews, because immediately after the plane went down over the sinai, and the passenger manifest was available to intel and counterterrorism officials worldwide, they looked at all the names and scrubbed them. put them through all the filters and systems and the names of the crew members as well, and they could find no indication, according to one official, whatsoever, that there was any indication that any of them board the plane had any direct/indirect contacts to any kind of militant or terrorist organization.
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kate? >> thanks so much. i want to bring in tom costello. other officials talking to andrea mitchell saying it's likely, but premature to say that this was a bomb. what do you know about what investigators would be looking at at this point? >> well, one thing that has drawn their attention from the beginning is the fact that the tail section of this plane, as we've said before, landed a good three miles or so from the rest of the plane. so was the tail section torn off, as a result of an explosion, a bomb, or is it only coincidence that that is generally the area that had the tail strike in 2001, and which the repair was made? that was a remarkable coincidence. where the patch was made 14 years ago, that part is separated from the rest of the fuselage by a good three miles or so. they've taken note of that. to the point also about security, to pick up on joim's point and how good is the
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security at sharm el sheikh, we've both done stories and reported on failures at some of the best u.s. and european airports where security is supposed to be very tight. but we've seen perimeter breaches, we've seen people getting through, either running through, or they have fake i.d., false i.d.s, or they're able to pose as somebody else and for the most part, these individuals have been caught or they didn't have any nefarious plans. but we know it's relatively easy to penetrate a good u.s. or european airport. so imagine now the security at sharm el sheikh. we've heard concerns about it, but i've never heard a full security audit of sharm el sheikh. you can imagine now that there are russian officers on the ground reviewing every piece of the security equation there at
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sharm el sheikh and that in fact the british have joined them, not only reviewing all the security cameras to get a sense of what happened there in the past in sharm el sheikh, in terms of security, but also, what are the current security conditions like. and as you mentioned, our colleague bill neely reporting that it may be somebody at sharm el sheikh has already lost his job today. >> tom, stand by there. msnbc military analyst and executive editor of defense 1. you've been listening to this. you're hearing a lot of speculation -- i shouldn't say speculation. there are reports now from officials in the british government and the u.s. government indicating that they're looking at this possibility very strongly. some putting it more strongly than others. but saying that they're looking at whether there was a bomb. >> well, that's right. you have to be very careful not to get out ahead of anything that we can confirm on both
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sides of the pond now. but clearly this started with british intelligence this morning and british officials putting out this statement, leaning forward, really a little bit farther ahead than the director of national intelligence, james clapper, who on monday said the same thing, we can't rule out it was an explosion, we can't rule out that it was isis. and he wouldn't put it past isis to have the ability to take down an airliner. but something more to it, has everybody scrambling. >> number 10 downing street saying this may have been a bomb. i guess that's what's moving incrementally closer to that possibility. >> of course. but to come out publicly saying that, officials like this know that it's going to cause a stir, not just in the press, but in the public. it lets them show they were
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taking proactive steps. and for the british, shutting down the airport. >> am i correct, they're not allowing flights in or out? >> that's my understanding too. and to go back to -- i know it was mentioned earlier, but the united states saying the they had faa warnings, but the british are closer to egypt. sharm el sheikh, as we were saying, it was a popular tourist destination. there are other national airliners that go in and out of egypt. different for an american airliner. >> i want to bring in andrea mitchell, if she's there. she's been working the phones and talking to sources. what are u.s. officials telling you? >> there are only two possibilities now. they've ruled out the missile. it's either a bomb and that is the most likely possibility, sore some kind of mechanical catastrophic failure on this airplane. and they are being very careful not to be too conclusive that it is a bomb, although that is what
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they clearly suspect. they suspect terrorism, and they are not pointing to isis, despite the isis claims of responsibility. pointing out that isis claimed responsibility immediately saying it was their missile and they have now ruled out the fact that it was a missile and that isis very often brags, boasts about things, claiming responsibility for things they did not do because that is part of their propaganda, that is part of what they are trying to do to inspire fear and try to gain recruits as a terror organization. so they are being very careful about the culprit. in the past, al qaeda in the arabian peninsula have the best bomb makers known but that does not mean that isis, which has never shown this capability before, has not ramped up and now does have some kind of bomb that could have been put on board. i know sharm el sheikh well. as you know, this is the jewel of egypt, as far as tourist destinations. it was mubarak's favorite place.
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he tried to build it up. i covered a terror attack there many years ago when condoleezza rice was secretary of state and we were in israel and i was the closest correspondent and flown there right away. certainly isis has a stronger presence there than ever before and it's something that the israelis track clearly and closely. >> you've been in that airport before, andrea? >> yes, absolutely. and this is not an airport -- i mean, it's in a region where there are so many different players, and as tom costello pointed out, look what happened with frankfurt on lockerbie. that was considered one of the finest airports in europe, and still the suitcase was able to, we've later discovered all these years later, get placed on board the pan am flight. so any airport can be
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vulnerable, and the fact that this is a russian airliner, which has had problems in the past, and the fact that a lot of these players including the airline company have a vested interest in trying to shade the truth. so it remains to be seen how intelligence gathering will lead to conclusive evidence, we hope in this case. >> andrea, thanks so much. >> i want to go back to kevin briefly. andrea was raising the possibility of a group doing something like this, and it made me wonder, if this were hypothetically, something coming from a terror group, like perhaps isis, does isis even have the capability? andrew was talking about capabilities of groups to make a bomb that could take down an airliner. is this something, do we have any idea whether isis even has that capability? >> well, i'll just echo james clapper's comment on monday
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which is that he wouldn't put it past them. initially, they were talking about a missile taking it down, or some sort of massive explosion. there are lots of ways to cause trouble on an airliner. and as andrea was saying, this is a different set of standards of security for the airport and for the airline. for lots of good reasons. so u.s. intelligence officials have said already they don't put it past isis to have the ability to take down an airliner. >> all right, we're going to keep watching this developing story. we need to take a very quick break here. when we come back, the very latest that we know about that egyptian plane down over the weekend.
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>> we're of course following a lot of breaking news this afternoon. we're going to get back to the issue with the russian airliner that went down in egypt over the week -- weekend. lot of reporting being done on that right now, trying to figure out whether or not that might have been caused by a bomb. we're following that closely, and we'll get back to that as soon as we have developments. but we're also following news from out west, a stabbing on a college campus in california this morning. five students were stabbed in front of a classroom at uc merced this morning. the suspect was killed by officers at the scene. nbc's jacob rascon joins me now. >> kate, the details have shifted a bit. we've now learned that four people were stabbed, not all of
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them were students, and that the suspect was in fact a student. a little bit different than what we'd been told earlier in the day. we also were able to get a hold of a witness, a construction worker who was painting inside the school at the time. and he said that it started inside of a classroom. he heard screaming. when they opened the door to see what was going on, the student came out of the classroom with a kitchen knife, and attacked his co-worker, and then ran outside and stabbed two more people, and then took off. and then police have told us that from there, they confronted him a little ways away still to campus and were forced to shoot and kill that person, which we have now learned, as i said, is a student. so the update is that four people were stabbed, not five. two of those were taken, who were stabbed, to local hospitals via helicopter and we're not able to get an update on their condition right now. the hospital not telling us what
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is going on there. the latest we know is that they were conscious when they showed up. we're hoping for the best and that's the very latest. >> so, two who we don't know their condition and the other two? >> the other two were treated by ambulance. they went to the local hospitals. their wounds were less serious. and we don't have an update on their conditions either. >> okay, thank you for following that for us. we're also following reports about gunfire in downtown san diego. specifically in that city's little italy neighborhood. police were telling people to stay inside, to shelter in place. nbc's joe fryer is following developments out of our los angeles bureau there. what do we know at this hour? >> just in the last few minutes, reporters with our affiliate in san diego are saying they have been hearing flash bangs, and police are firing into this apartment complex, and police have been heard demanding the suspect come out with his hands up. the last couple of hours have been relatively quiet compared
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with what was happening earlier this morning. there has not been any gunfire up until a few minutes ago, they had not heard any of the tear gas canisters. so that gave us the impression things were starting to calm down. as compared with this morning where over a three-hour period, this man was standing at the apartment, near the window and was firing outside toward anyone who was walking by in the area and anything that was happening outside. so police basically cordoned off an area of about three blocks by three blocks, told neighbors to stay put, stay inside, even take cover at times. a few schools, as a precaution were placed on a lockdown. reporters near the area say they were told to hit the ground and take cover. so things have calmed down in the past couple hours. this all started around 9:00 this morning california time. police were called to the apartment. it was a domestic violence call. but when they arrived and got there, police say that someone actually started firing at the officers. police fired back and were able to get out of the apartment.
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that's when this sort of stand-off situation started. also, the airport was shut down. arrivals were shut down for a period because the airport was so close to the situation. police have recently told the airport they can resume normal operations. >> so flights in and out of san diego airport have resumed? >> the airport has not confirmed if the arrivals have started again, but police have informed the airport that it's safe and it's no longer a danger for planes flying over that neighborhood. >> joe fryer, thanks so much for keeping us up to date on that story. let's turn to politics now, it was a big night for republicans and conservative causes last night. so what do the gop victories mean for next year's presidential election? here to walk us through last night's results and what that might foretell for us, steve kornacki. >> a discouraging night for democrats as they look ahead to
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the 2016 presidential election. one marquee race in the state of kentucky, the republicans won that race, a bit of an upset. the democrats seemed position to win. kentucky is one of a handful of states that democrats were hoping might be able to return to the fold with hillary clinton at the top of the ticket next year. let me tell you what i mean by that. take a look at this. this is kentucky. now, you're going back in time a little bit here, but the last time a clinton was running for president, twice in the 1990s, bill clinton carried the state of kentucky twice. he won it both times he ran for president and kentucky is a state where democrats still, if you look at the voters registration, they still outnumber republicans, there's an old long-standing democratic tradition in the state. it's a state that has swung dramatically in the last generation and particularly in the obama years, towards the republicans. how much is the antipathy toward barack obama in kentucky? take a look at this. this is the democratic presidential primary in 2012. you guys probably don't even
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remember a democratic primary in 2012 because barack obama was unopposed. but something called uncommitted was on the primary ballot. and look at this, running against the president of the united states in a democratic primary in kentucky, got 42% of the vote. all the yellow counties in kentucky, you're seeing, they chose uncommitted over barack obama in the 2012 primary. so that's how much kentucky has swung in the republican direction against obama in the obama years, in the general election in 2012, obama got crushed in kentucky by more than 20 points. kentucky is not the only state this is true of. right here, what you're looking at are six states, west virginia, tennessee, kentucky, missouri, arkansas, louisiana. these six states both voted twice for bill clinton in the 1990s, and democrats had hoped that if hillary clinton was the nominee next year, and barack obama was off the stage, that maybe hillary clinton would have some luck winning back some of
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these states for the democrats, or at least making them competitive again. remember, when hillary clinton ran against barack obama, in the 2008 democratic primary, these states were her best states. she destroyed them in these states. the hope was, you get a clinton back on top of the ticket, maybe that will change things, but what you saw yesterday in kentucky, the republican party nationalized that governor's election, they said, if you don't like barack obama, if you don't like the national democratic party right now, don't vote for the democratic candidate. and in the end, even though the republican candidate had plenty of flaws, that was more than enough to win the election for republicans. so it's a tough sign for democrats who think they could win back any of these states, kate. >> steve, thanks so much. let's head out to the republican campaign trail. now many of the leading candidates fanning out across the state of new hampshire today. among them, donald trump, who filed for the primary ballot in that state, and jeb bush, who continued his jeb can fix it comeback tour today, with five events in the grand state. also in new hampshire, marco
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rubio, whose rise in the polls has come with increased scrutiny and some attacks on his record and personal finances. joining me now, nbc's hallie jackson in nashua, new hampshire, where rubio is due to hold a town hall meeting. we just said it, he's coming under a little bit of attack today, certainly from donald trump, as usual. but also from newspapers digging into his past. >> and let's call it for what it is, kate. it's scrutiny, because marco rubio, now stepping into the spotlight, nationally in this presidential race, as well as on a local level in new hampshire. a new poll showing that he's five times more popular today at this moment than he was before last week's debate. so with that, you're going to get more attention, and that means more folks looking at your background and some of your history. so what we're seeing today specifically is renewed attention on something that came up when he ran for senate in 2010, and that's the use of a state-issued credit card. rubio acknowledging he charged
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personal expenses to that card and paid them off. but for some, it's raised questions about all of this. marco rubio and i talked about this today. we were in iowa last week, he said, i've answered these questions. a florida state commission has acknowledged it. and something else, we have this new nbc news analysis of spending in this race, generally in the republican field, you're seeing the vast majority of tv ad buys coming from super pacs, the outside groups. the campaigns themselves only spending about 5% of the full ad buy. the rest from super pacs. the group supporting rubio is not a super pac. it's called a 501 c-4, a non-profit that is not required to expose its donors. i asked him about it and here's whoa the exchange was like.
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>> you call for donors to your non-profit to reveal who they are, even though they're not required to? >> i don't coordinate with these groups, i have no idea what they're doing. as long as they comply about the law, i don't have any problem with it. >> rubio is here in new hampshire, as he looks to campaign in all four early voting states, here, south carolina, iowa and nevada. we had the roundtable earlier, which had some lighter moments, talking about "star wars" and his affinity for dance music. >> glad you defined edm for me. >> yes. >> hallie jackson, thanks so much. now for the latest on the trump campaign, let's turn to nbc's katy tur, she's with me here in the studio again. so donald trump was in new hampshire today. kind of slamming other candidates as usual. but he also talked about his plan to run positive tv ads.
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let's take a listen. >> i don't really feel the need, but a lot of people want me to do it. i don't think we have to do it. we're leading substantially in new hampshire and all over. and again, as of a little while ago, we're leading in iowa. but i think i should do it because other people will, and they'll be positive ads. we're looking to do positive ads. if somebody goes negative on me, i have much more money than all of them put together. they will be met harshly. but i'm looking to do positive ads. >> sort of hard to imagine really positive ads from donald trump given how negative he's been on the stump? >> it is. he said he won't do it unless he's attacked. but he's been attacked throughout his entire campaign. but the campaign has said, these are going to be positive ads. "the new york times" is now reporting they're not actually tv ads which is what we were under the impression they were. they're radio ads in iowa, new hampshire, and south carolina.
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really interesting, because radio ads are not expensive. they'll be running for a week, according to "the new york times" and that's only a few thousands dollars, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. donald trump has said he's willing to spend the money he needs to spend on this campaign. so far, he's spent $1.9 million. which is not much in the scheme of things. he's spent more of his donors' money. he has 25 million dollars that he's saved up for ads. if he's using for radio, being th -- that won't be that much. >> "snl," "saturday night live," donald trump hosting this weekend, it's got some attention, some people calling on him to not do it. this afternoon, we got a teaser video. let's play that. >> donald trump is hosting
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"saturday night live" with week and because of equal time rules for television, mr. trump can only speak for four seconds in this promo. so let me just say this. ben carson is a complete and total loser. >> well, that's just about right. but we do expect him to show up at "saturday night live"? >> yes. he's in rehearsals, we hear, as of today. and he's going to be at "snl," there's a large protest planned outside of this building at 6:00 tonight by a number of latino organizations, who are asking for "snl" to dump trump because they don't believe that the network or the tv show should be propping up somebody who they believe is racist, or at the very least prejudiced against latinos, but he's planning on being there and "snl" is planning on having him, and those are the very first promos which will appeal to a number of
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people, but certainly not to ben carson. >> katy tur, thanks so much for being here. this friday night, rachel maddow will host a forum in south carolina, now this is with the democratic candidates running for president and we'll have special coverage of that right here on msnbc. turning now to how wall street closed out the day. here's hampton pearson with the cnbc market wrap. >> we had markets closing lower today. the dow losing about 51 points, the s&p falling by 7, the nasdaq down almost by 3 points. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. alright, kelly and promise me that you'll try that taco place on south street. and we have portfolio planning tools to help you manage your ira. yeah, you're old 401k give me your phone. the rollover consultants give you step-by-step help. no set-up fees. use your potion. sorry, not you. my pleasure. goodnight, tim. for all the confidence you need. who's tim? td ameritrade. you got this.
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>> in pennsylvania, kevin steele won yesterday's election for mung county 2003 outside of philadelphia. the hot button issue there, accusations against bill cosby that were made back in 2005. steele's opponent, bruce caster, was the d.a. at the time and was running for his old job back. he investigated the claims back then, but chose not to press charges. so in declaring victory, steele last night said, you made a choice to take it forward, to fight for victims and to fight for people who have been the subject of crimes. a reminder, more than 50 women have made accusations against bill cosby, ranging from sexual assault to harassment, to being drugged by the comedian. cosby's attorneys have repeatedly denied wrongdoing and bill cosby has never to date been charged with a crime, but with steele taking over in that count ne pennsylvania, the question is, could cosby face
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charges? no joining me now, ari melber. so that's the big question. this campaign got really heated and on both sides, steele and caster were running ads during the campaign talking about bill cosby has a platform issue. >> exactly. and this would have been unthinkable just a few years ago when in newsrooms, quite honestly, as well as in a lot of prosecutors' offices, if you brought up claims against bill cosby, they were not taken seriously. so the good news for people who think there should be a full investigation, this is a big topic in these races. the bad news for people who care about fairness, we don't really want prosecutors running on a promise to figure out where an investigation lands. that is to say -- >> against one particular person? >> against one person and prejudging and say, i'm going to get this person, but we haven't even found the smoking gun yet. and this is a case where there has to be a full and fair investigation no matter what. and that should be a real point
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of caution here. >> and to remind people, we reported this a couple weeks ago, nbc news confirmed that andrea constant, who is the woman who made accusations initially in 2005 against bill cosby, the case was treated and handled by that d.a., she has been interviewed by investigators in that county, right? so we know that at least prior to last night, the former d.a. was doing something, was investigating? >> that's right. and this new d.a. elect worked within the office anyway. so, again, i don't mean to be too lawyerly, but i am the lawyer here in the building. it's concerning that he's working in that office and he's running in a way that makes it sound like, next, cosby gets indicted. >> what does it many? >> it means they're taking it seriously, despite the age of the allegations, to see if they can meet their bar beyond a reasonable doubt, that they can prove there was a criminal sexual assault. i do think that it's good news that people are taking it seriously, because there was a
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time when they weren't. and in general, it's perfectly adequate and appropriate for a prosecutor to say, there was a period when sex crimes weren't taken seriously, i will take all reports seriously. but whether he's going to prosecute or not, he's got to take his time. >> thank you, ari melber. that does it for this hour. i'm kate snow. "mtp daily" starts right now. >> good evening from washington, this of course is "mtp daily." we begin with the breaking news we've been following the last hour. a u.s. official has told nbc news that evidence indicates it was a bomb that may have brought down the plane killing 224 on board. the official said the investigation is focused on the possibility that isis operatives or sympathizers were directly involved in the bombing. shortly after the crash, isis claimed it had downed the claim, but egypt's president at the

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