tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC November 11, 2015 11:00pm-12:01am PST
>> phil saviano gets tonight's "last word." thank you for joining us. chris hayes is up next. breaking bad party crashers disrupt gop. that's for hardball. good evening, i'm chris matthews. it's getting worse the nasty fights among republicans it used to be you could count on republicans to act like republicans. but last night, they found reason to fight. bush and kasich said it was ridiculous for donald trump to talk about sending 11 million people out of the country. the rest joined trump with cruz saying the republicans would
lose if they join the democrats on what he called amnesty. on war, another fight, marco rubio led contenders trying to out do themselves preaching for a tough military. but trump and rand paul stood firm. why spend a trillion dollars paul asked when we could use it well here at home. times have changed. previous elections you couldn't get by without a solemn reference to 9/11 that took the form of a bugle call. last night we saw a quartet of candidates present themselves in stark colors. donald trump is the economic nationalist ready to repel american immigrants. to attack foreign countries for doing the same. ben carson, as the soft spoken promise of deliverance from the complexity and unpleasantness of our times. marco rubio is calling charge. ted cruz is the tea partier promising to knock off five government departments even if he couldn't remember all five.
who will be the chosen leader. whose party is it? katy tur is in new hampshire with a trump campaign. perry bacon and tom davis, a former republican congressman from virginia. donald trump was asked about his plan to deport millions of immigrants. who are here illegally, let's watch. >> can you just send five million people back with no effective on the economy? >> you have to send people back. look -- >> what do you do? >> we're a country of laws, we either have a country or don't have a country. we are a country of law. going to have to go out and come back. but they're going to have to go out and hopefully they get back. we have no choice if we're going to run our country properly. >> he got a big applause for that. let's listen to his conversation with you. >> you said your deportation plan would be humane.
>> totally humane. >> eisenhower's deportation of immigrants. it would drop immigrants in the middle of the desert. others were shipped off on cargo ships. how would your plan be different? >> very humanely done. >> how? >> very important. it's a whole management thing. you know, good management, practices. >> that's 11 million. >> it will be very, humanely done. the biggest applause last night by far was when i said we will build a wall. >> that's well and true. but what about getting the people -- if it's more than 11 -- >> we will do it very humanely and hopefully they'll be coming back. we will do it very humanely it's going to happen. it has to happen. >> katy tur, it must be an experience for you to maintain some kind of civil relationship with that fellow. you challenge him and he always seems to come back and simply state almost definitionally because he says it it is true.
i'm going to dump 11 million people across the border and some are going to do it nicely. humanely is a nice we use about dogs that get dumped on the street. humane society. it's an odd word. your thought about his nomenclature. >> speaking of the eisenhower plan i was asking about, the plan that called operation wetback which is a really offensive term for mexican immigrants. historians said that plan, people were treated less nicely an cattle. 88 died of heat stroke. i'm not sure if you could hear me say that. the ships they were carried on, the cargo ships were likened to 18th century slave ships. i asked about this, he said as you're pointing out that they will be taken away humanely. he's not talking about how that's being done.
it does seem to make -- children who are american citizens, we have asked in the past, what about the children. donald trump has said on "meet the press," they're going to have to go back with their families or stay here and be torn apart from their families. so the idea of this plan may look okay on paper, it may look feasible on paper, it may sound good to people who don't want undocumented immigrants in this country. but how it would be enacted is anything but easy. and would possibly be most likely be anything but humane. if past is precedent. he's using the eisenhower plan of how he would do that and that was anything but humane. >> if you look at the way china and india and almost everybody takes advantage of the united states, china in particular because they're so good. it's the number one abuser of this country.
if you look at the way they take eventually, it's through currency manipulation. if is approved it will be more bad trade deals. more loss of jobs for our country. we're losing jobs like nobody has lost jobs before. i want to bring jobs back into the country. >> on foreign policy he said the u.s. should let other countries take care of the world's problems. here he is. >> i like -- if putin wants to go in and i got to know him very well because we were both on 60 minutes, we were stable mates. we did very well that night. you know that. but if putin wants to go and knock the hell out of isis. i'm all for it 100%. i can't understand how anybody would be against it. as far as the ukraine is concerned, we have a group of people and a group of countries, including germany tremendous economic behemoth. why are we always doing the work? >> tom -- perry you first. i hear -- maybe i connect the
dots. i hear a gut nationalist in there that a lot of people feel betrayed by the big shots at the top. on all the fronts. >> i agree with you. my guess donald trump will not believe he will not deport 11 million people. even donald trump does not think he can do that. it speaks to the people in the country who like katey said are disaffected. people feel like their wages are going down because of the immigrants. >> what is everybody else going to do? nothing. >> trump is right. >> people are going to continue be challenged for their jobs. all the things that bug them fairly or not. trump says i'm going to stop t. here's my marker. let's start with 11 million go home. maybe it end with nobody comes in tomorrow night. your thoughts. >> probably a good primary strategy. the republican party has mutated to a more blue collar party and non-college whites.
seems to be cleaning up and speaking i think to their concerns. it's a good primary -- absolutely nobody else is talking about it, certainly not the white house. so i think at this point it's a good primary strategy. he has a good base that don't care what he says. >> you know, for example, why the heck jeb bush is running for president, except it's in the family business. heard him that he did well. no, he didn't. he didn't say anything last night that anybody remembers. on going after isis it bogged down to make them look like losers. >> we're talking about global jihadists and their desire is to destroy us and our way of life. how do we make them look like losers, that's the way they're able to gather a lot of influence. in order to make them look like losers you destroy their caliphate. that would be in iraq.
take the energy field from them. all of that land from them. we could do that i believe fairly easily i've learned from talking to certainly generals. >> cakewalk. carson was asked about it would be easy to take back the iraqi airfields from isis. let's watch this reaction. >> they only have 30,000 people. and they're spread out not just there, but in several other locations. so i don't think that they can defend that area particularly well. if you gave our military a mission, and didn't tie their hands and micromanage them they would be much more capable than what we think. >> do you think it would be easy for the u.s. military to take back those -- that region if they were given -- >> i do. i do believe that. >> so i think i talk too fast. i could be a number two candidate for president if i just talked like this.
he talks -- is it because a lot of people don't like fast talking people from the northeast. they like his calm approach. >> i was out iowa. the media likes people to talk fast but i like ben carson is deliberate. he thinks about what he's saying. that two hours more than anything else i learned ben carson simply has not studied and does not know what he's talking about. and doesn't try -- >> perry, he didn't even cram. >> he doesn't even pretend like he's learned the issues. >> by the way, one question, how do you interpret did he put in our american troops and take back the fields from -- >> of course. we'll put our troops on the ground. there are 30,000 of us. >> send in the marines. sounds good to me. sarcastically. marco rubio got some of the biggest applause last night. a challenging rand paul on foreign policy. he took the hawk side, rand paul was more dovish. let's watch.
>> how is it conservative to add trillion dollars in military expenditures? you cannot be a conservative if you're going to keep promoting new programs that you're not going to pay for. >> we can't even have an economy if we're not safe there are radical jihadists in the middle east beheading people. a radical shia cleric in iran tried to get a nuclear weapon. the chinese taking over the south china sea. i believe the world is a safer -- i don't believe i know that the world is a safer and better place when america is the strongest military power in the world. >> katy tur, back to you, it seems to me he's a recruitment poster for war but it doesn't look like he's signing up. i'm serious this is neocontalk. in the end after the ideologues have written their op-ed pieces and made the case for various wars including fighting the chinese and russians over the crimea. he goes and fights? our regular army of volunteers
going and fight and they get hurt and get killed. and sometimes they don't win. yet these guys keep saying all you have to do is give a good speech. >> what we need to do is step back and let the rest of the world take care of their problems. rubio is saying the opposite. we need to go in there and fix everything. that's part of what got us into trouble in iraq with the bush administration. they thought they could go in and take iraq by taking saddam hussein. mission accomplished on the top of the aircraft carrier. that's not how it works in the middle east. it's much more complicated than that. when you hear ben carson talk about isis it's like he has a fundamental misunderstanding -- lack of understanding. he's influenced by saying america is evil and america is killing our people and taking our oil. and they're effective with it because in a lot of ways that's what we are doing.
that's how we're perceived in the middle east. the idea we can go in and just knock out 30,000 people, just like that, is a little bit ludicrous. it doesn't work that way. the influence is harder to knock out. you can't just kill a bunch of people because somebody stronger will come in after him. that's something he doesn't seem to get or doesn't want to get. his supporters like the idea of him coming in and saying these are problems that are easy to fix. >> ted cruz talked about his plan to eliminate five major federal agencies including led by the irs. it turns out he could only remember four of them. he got rid of the commerce department twice. that's really hating government. let's watch. >> today, we rolled out a spending plan. 500 -- five major agencies i would eliminate. irs, department of commerce department of energy and hud.
>> he doubled down on that commerce. i was thinking carly fiorina was hoping to be secretary of commerce. he's getting rid of the cabinet before he gets in there. did you hear me say that? i'm sorry. >> it's so bad he got rid of it twice. >> he gets noah with that. >> he's going to get rid of it thrice. >> get rid of it twice. thank you so much senator cruz for getting rid of the commerce department both times. thank you you all. coming up, what did the republican debate last night signal to the rest of the country, the democrats and the people in the even. a little too hot. there's no way to raise minimum wage. they came out against wage increases for anybody. if you're in our country illegally we're coming for you. that's rough stuff if you're a
latino. this stuff might not sell can middle america. former president george herbert walker bush spoke out about cheney and rumsfeld and how they badly served their son. the elder bush tells us all about what old man poppy thinks about the boy. last nights's republican debate was the last for a month. we'll project ahead and see and figure out which way this race is headed. let me finish with the people we honored today. those who served in our armed forces. is veteran's day. this is hardball. a place for politics.
welcome back to hard ball. wages in this country are too high. that's what trump said. it's time to bring back a 1950's era mass deportation program. let's invade iraq again. and for get the situation room. the real foreign policy experience comes from the green room. last night's republican debate was full of moments like that that republican critics and certainly democratic ads makers will like to exploit. they've begun the assault already. we have the national correspondent with "the washington post" and with usa today covering the presidential fight. let's begin with the resounding rejection of raising the minimum wage. the curious statement that wages in this country. rent's too high. wages are too high. let's watch. >> wages too high. we're not going to be able to
compete against the world. >> you do not raise the minimum wage. >> i would not raise the minimum. >> every time we raise the minimum wage, the number of jobless people increases. you know, and that's because of those high wages. >> if i thought that raising the minimum wage was the best way to help people increase their pay, i would be all for it, but it isn't. in the 21st century it's a disaster. >> and heidi, this is an odd thing. let's start with trump. he has a great appeal of economic nationalism. the little guy lives on wages. a little guy doesn't get a salary, he gets a per hour. it's by the hour, wages. working wages. why would trump say they're too high? >> well, i mean, a few reasons, one is that he is in the middle of a big battle against the restaurant workers union. >> he is. >> trying to unionize his -- at his hotels and he's fighting it. he doesn't want that foot in the door from the unions.
he's felt that way i think always. so -- >> they would get a waitperson to use the modern term would that person get $15 without tips or including tip? >> at the moment you would get less than $8 straight minimum wage. i think the people who are trying to unionize are actually like the restaurant workers, cook and bartenders and so forth. they would be eligible. >> full -- >> well, it would only be $15 if the locality installed $15. i mean, the other thing i think he's appealing to this republican, you know, do not inflate wages pro business stance. which plays well with people who are already going to vote republican. it does nothing to expand the brand at all. and it plays -- >> the republican party growth has been among white working people who didn't go to college.
they like trump because he's a nationalist. he voices their indignation why would he stick it in their faces saying you won't get any money from me, and wages are too high? >> it makes no sense for him politically when you look at the base. they're these disenfranchised white working class voters. >> what the do you think of trump, i don't know about the thing with raises. >> 51% is the percentage of u.s. kids today who quality for free lunches because they're parents don't earn enough money. that's why you're seeing cities taking action on their own. guess what? the majority 2/3 of americans agree that the minimum wage should go up. >> it's amazing to hear someone say i'm against the living wage. anyway, donald trump is taken
the republican party's nativist streak to new heights. >> can you send five million people back with no eon the economy. i like, ike. moved a million half illegal immigrants out of this country. >> are you going to have a massive deportation force. >> you're going to have a deoportation force. >> they're doing high fives in the clinton campaign now when they hear this. >> well, they may well be. he referred to an early 1950's law enforcement initiative. hillary clinton tweeted the idea of tracking down and deporting 11 million people is absurd and you made an unamerican no trump. this gives hillary a free ride. they don't have to have an immigration plan. they don't have to say anything, just say he's an idiot.
>> that's right. that's why her campaign spokesman tweeted out we're giving out high fives. >> got a strange look at the republican party's foreign policy when carly fiorina talked about their first hand meetings with vladmir putin. >> i got to know him very well. because we were both on 60 minutes. we were stable mates. we did very well that night. >> i have met him as well. not in a green room for a show but a private meeting. >> where did you meet -- >> i met him in beijing. we were in sort of a green room setting, actually. >> they're in the same boat as you saw in that clip a green room is how she described her meet ing with putin. politico's fact checkers says trump's interview was filmed in manhattan and putin was filmed in russia. the donald was having fun with this.
that's helping him out. you know, i can see putin from my dressing room. from my makeup room. i can hear. this is weird. >> yeah, i know -- >> he never actually met him. >> it's weird, but i don't know how much it hurts them in the end. >> i know. >> republicans are the daddy party, when there's a national security terrorist -- okay. proper. credit. >> you're allowed to say things like that. you're not allowed to talk like that anymore. >> look at every election we've had since the terrorist attacks. >> there was a lot -- execute the bad guy and fight the bad guys. >> when people are scared they go to -- >> that's the way i talked 20, 30 years ago. by the way. daddy party, and mommy party anymore. back when it was okay to say that. thank you. thank you. great guests both of you. up next an inside look at what the first president bush felt about his son's administration. not much. the hard right turn talk by cheney and rumsfeld.
welcome back to hard ball. it is rare that a single book adds so much to the historic record of a subject as well known as an american president. that's what john meachum managed to do in his latest biography. destiny in power the odyssey of george herbert walker bush provides rare insight into the thinking of an accomplished leader who is insecure about his own place in history. as bush candidly told the author i feel like an asterisk. veteran's day is the perfect way to honor a president of the greatest generation. he had to endure the open seas on a raft.
he was realistic about what war can accomplish. the most striking new information in the book is the degree of skepticism bush felt about those who helped lead his son into war. bush's criticism which came as a surprise even to george w. bush on dick cheney's role as vice president and his son's unwillingness to curtail the power o. chain -- the president should not have to worry. the big mistake was letting cheney bring in his own state department. i think they overdid that. it's not cheney's fault. it's the president's fault. the buck stops there. what statement. i'm joined by the author of destiny and power. my friend, what great accomplishment already in terms of the news this book has made. did you understand when you
heard the first george bush, the first president bush when he laid out -- i assumed the fact he was disappointed in fact angered by what happened under his son's leadership? >> i did realize what the first 72 hours were going to look like. and now we're a little bit beyond that. it was very striking. these were conversations that began in october of 2008. he repeat the point in several different sessions over the next few years. he was very critical as you noted of cheney. this was one man who had one view of the vice presidency and dick cheney had another view of the vice presidency. he also i thought to his credit, he said that the president was ultimately responsible. he held his son to account for this hawkish tone that he thought actually misrepresented what his son truly believed. >> what do you mean he misrepresented? what did he think his son was up to when he went into iraq?
>> the context of these remarks was about -- more about the second term than the first term. and my own sense is that while president bush 41 had anxieties about the first -- second iraq war, that he believe -- and held his son to account for the phrase axis of evil. he said that that's a phrase that will probably be proven not to be historically benefitting anything. he was more concerned -- he was closer on the substance than on the style of the administration. he held cheney as the chief figure who seemed to make the administration appear more hawkish than bush 41 himself thought it actually was. >> yes, but he was so right. i thought. you did the reporting and history. but at the time i remember being shocked at the power that cheney had in the vice president's office. he had all kinds of people who were loyal to him.
he had built a second government and had connections over there with that special office in the department of defense. it was equally hawkish. i don't know if you could call president bush a neo con. they were to the right and very, very militarily aggressive. they seem to have a list of countries they wanted to go into. >> that's a very good point. because what president bush 41 was particularly worried about was broadening the war on terror beyond afghanistan and iraq. and chiefly, iran. the context of these remarks, remember, is '07, '08 when there were fears there would be more projection of force through the middle east. that worried president bush 41 enormously. >> he later became -- the first president bush became skeptical of cheney and was uneasy about the gulf war that he waged. this was back with george bush sr. was president.
bush recorded a note in his audio diary expressing his concern that the situation would spiral out of control. here is his private recording from that day in 1990 which he dictated as he travelled back to the when you say. >> this is a terribly serious problem. it's perhaps the most serious problem that i have faced as president. because the down side is so enormous. if indeed the iraqis went in and got ahold of saudi arabia and our objective was to free saudi arabia we'd be involved in something that would have the magnitude of world war -- could have the magnitude of a world war, so many countries involved. >> on this point, do you have evidence that the saddam hussein was planning to go into saudi arabia back then?
>> i know that there were enormous fears at the highest levels of the government. the president of the united states government. what you heard there was august 5th, 1990. you remember well on august second, the president said i'm not contemplating intervention of any kind. what is so fascinating about this diary, this audio diary, is you can hear him on the second, the third, the fourth and culminating. he was worried the saudis wouldn't hold up and make a deal. he said the prince has been double dealing them with the turks trying to get the turks not to be as strong against saddam in the first days. to me this was revelatory because the saudis ultimately became the host country for the forces with enormous implications down the road. what's so amazing, and you love this stuff too, he's on the
helicopter. you hear the blades -- >> i could hear it. >> on the way back from camp david landing there and steps out and says this will not stand. he walks into the west wing and ben says hey where did you get this will not stand. bush looked at him and said that was mine. that's what i mean. >> in the years after his presidency bush grew close to bill clinton but not hillary. he remarked she's very militant and that's going to get her in difficulties. i don't feel close to hillary but i do to bill. it's interesting he offered that comment about the former first lady and the president. >> well, you know, he's thinking about, you know, we all project our own family, our own issues
on to other people. i think he probably is. it is one of the most fascinating political -- it is the most fascinating political marriage since franklin and eleanor. barbara bush in her diary after she read no ordinary times said it reminded her of bill and hillary clinton and they might have separate lives and mrs. bush wrote who knows. >> yeah. what about the affection bill feels for -- has george jr. became his father emotionally? >> it's fascinating. we have two presidents, barack obama and bill clinton who did not know their fathers who have come to revere george herbert walker bush. president obama in an interview with me for this book was lavish praise on bush as the last gentleman in american politics. and i do think two things are going on with clinton's affection, maybe three with clinton's affection for 41.
one is i do think there's a warm father figure there. two, clinton is very historically minded and george herbert walker bush is a figure of history now. he's not a passing political figure. and the third is it doesn't hurt with the american middle for bill clinton to be seen as being close to a republican president. >> so you know, i think he's the greatest generation replica. the survivor who still represents that heroic period in our history. i think bill that didn't go into the military looks up to him to a real fighting man. a man who was shot out of the sky and pulled out of the water right back to safety. it's quite an experience as a young man. it separates him from a lot of our generation. you get another pulitzer for this one. the book is called destiny in power the american odyssey of george herbert walker bush. what a christmas gift right now.
i think you'll see quite a few people starting to -- i don't want to predict. i think i know. there will be a lot of people dropping out. they have to drop out, they're not resonating. and some of them are very good people. if you don't resonate they're going to drop out. >> welcome back to hard ball. that was donald trump speaking to reporters earlier today predicting a big shake up in the race. the good bad and ugly are going to replay in voters' mind until the next debate which isn't for another 35 days. we're in the hope stretch. here's the state of play right now in the polling. averages, trump and carson are one two at the top. rubio and cruz have moved into the second tier. jeb bush is still struggling with just 6%. everyone else is hanging on. can dr. ben carson hold up to the scrutiny? can donald trump continue to draw enormous crowds?
he had 10,000 the other night. can rubio and cruz continue their momentum? who is vulnerable. who won't make it through the holidays. megan murphy, john fierce, amanda turkle. project it out where is this going? >> we'll see the candidates start attacking each other a lot more. maybe not name calling and things like that. you're started to see in the debate where they through more contrast on policy. starting -- >> who is out to get who? >> ted cruz is starting to get marco rubio. didn't call him out by name. but started the preview you don't want someone who is soft on immigration. trump and carson didn't go after each other -- >> sugar subsidies are worthy -- >> he is clearly watching -- >> he's trying to insinuate a fellow spanish surname, because they are cuban nationals or
whatever -- come from cuba. but is he going to insinuate for what he calls amnesty? >> i think so. rubio got lucky last night he did not have to jump into the immigration debate. he skated by. got some slightly easier questions. you saw jeb bush, john kasich, donald trump get in on immigration. >> what do you see coming next month? >> opposition research. i can you'll see danny diaz from jeb bush campaign going after marco rubio. there's two top guys who have research that needs to be done, the top two guys, they're still at the top of the polls. nobody thinks they're going to be the presidential candidate. they're still up there. somebody's going to start taking shots -- >> do you think trump can win? >> other people start believing that as well. you've got to start doing oxygen research on those guys. you're right. ted cruz is also saying the real problem with marco rubio.
you'll see a lot of -- >> remember in '92 when people wanted so much. they heard about jennifer flowers but they wanted a new young guy who seemed to have the chops. i wonder if what we're seeing in the case of trump, they like this angry, economic populist so much they're willing to put up with the personal life, divorces, the bankruptcies, they'll forgive it all. what they want is strength? i'm just thinking -- >> over the next 35 days i'll say something controversial. the education of donald trump. you saw last night when he bones up on policy specifics he's much better than you think he can be. he can talk about tax he can talk about corporate inversions. he can talk about that. he can actually sound credible on some of these high level issues. >> one of the -- >> he's smarter than i think a lot of people think he is. >> he's rich. he's got to be smart.
>> what we're going to see is i think people think they're research him out. he's going to bone up and sound more -- >> let's talk about it. those who haven't -- i love these new words everything's a cycle. now they call the primary season the primary. the dnc is now the convention. it used to be the headquarter. anyway, i hate language change. tonight trouble for kasich. the focus group of republican voters organized by frank luntz, a republican was less than enamored by kasich's performance. >> what was it? who had a negative reaction to john kasich tonight? really? >> painful. >> i need a word or face to describe johkasich. >> boring. >> tiring. >> irritating. >> finished. >> hold on. finished. >> he doesn't belong on the stage. chris christie should have been there. >> i love these focus groups. there is something carrying the water for christie.
upset that kasich got the last spot. >> i like him a lot. he didn't do very well. >> he keeps jumping in there. carly fiorina did not interrupt anymore than kasich did. >> that was a problem. he was so worried about not getting time he wasn't very good. >> every time he complained about time he sounded like jim webb. up next, these people surprises me with someone i don't know. hard ball, the place for politics.
at the new papa johns.com. well, donald trump was the candidate with the most twitter mentions during last night's debate. according to twitter, he was tops, followed by jeb bush, ben carson, and ted cruz all sort of bunched together. ben carson had the biggest number of new twitter followers last night. marco rubio came in second, donald trump third in that category, with trump overall. we'll be right back.
back. >> last night hurt? >> last night helped to staunch the bleeding, but i don't think it's going to help. >> the biggest surprise? >> paul ryan might be a new speaker, but he's got an old hand at the chief of staff, and the person who is the chief of staff for mr. mcconnell used to work for dave hoppy, and why that's important is it's going to really improve communication between the senate majority leader and the new speaker. i think it's going to help them get stuff done in the united states -- >> did you read today, that ryan sleeps on a cot in his office every night. he doesn't even have an apartment in d.c. >> i think that's still true. >> i think that's sort of understandable with three kids going to college. >> what you're going to hear more about in the coming months is transgender rights. there's a bill being drafted in tennessee that would prevent students, transgender students from using locker rooms and bathrooms -- >> so this is anti-transgender rights? >> anti-transgender. >> so what locker are they supposed to use? >> they want to use based on the
one they identify with -- >> well, what does society say in these cases? >> they're saying they should go to the one -- >> where they were born? >> where they were born. >> thank you to my roundtable tonight. i think this is one of the things that's going to change. when we return, let me finish with the people we honored today, those who have served this our armed forces. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.
who served our armed forces. it used to be that serving in military uniform was a prerequisite for running for president. every president who came to office after world war ii, for example, from general eisenhower through the first george bush was in uniform during that great war. it was only after the cold war that was concluded that americans stopped insisting that the commander in chief not come to office without some experience as an officer down the chain of command. well, think of it. the moscow coup failed in august of '91. bill clinton, the first of the new generations of presidents, was elected the year after. we all see the logic of this. it's that those who fought in wars tend to see, if not their folly, certainly their costs. think of dwigt eisenhower who received the natzi surrender europe, think about how this same man stood firm, refusing to join the french in battling for indo china in 1954, refusing to join in the nuttiness of the suze campaign. think of young jack kennedy,
refusing to send u.s. forces to fight in cuba in 1961, despite all the treachery that the cia tried to hook iminto it. think of it again in october of the following year, refusing to accept the call to war by curtis la may, and other hawks in the military and elsewhere, pushing for invasion of that same island. it's always been my hunch that the best buffer against stupid wars is the veteran, the person who has been to war. it's why i put my bets on anwar sidot. those who don't need to prove it in high office, who don't need to talk forever about making policy more muscular. but those who do become bent on proofing their toughness. i want leaders who want to prove the future historians, if not the current voters, that they were wise, that they knew the cost of war, and took it to heart. it's a difference between the veterans and the armchair general. between the true conservative and the neo con.
that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> the word is elegant. it was an elegant evening. >> it was a night of elegance and benevolence. >> thank you, donald, for allowing me to speak at the debate. that's really nice of you. i really appreciate that. >> a day after the fourth republican debate, how donald trump is defending his latest immigration bombshell. >> we're going to have a deportation force. and you're going to do it humanely. then, senator chris murphy on what we learned about republican foreign policy. >> so we have to be saying, how do we make them look like losers? >> senator sherrod brown, on the gop trouble with the obama economy. and why some of the night's biggest applause lines just don't add up. >> welders make more money than philosophers. all that and shocking new video showing a man handcuffs, tased, and dying in police custody.