jacob's conversation with retired army captain florent groberg. we congratulate him today. that does it for this hour. i'm kate snow, "mtp daily" start right now. >> yep, it's thursday. we knew immigration would be the big wedge issue on right in 2016. but today, the issue has exploded 80 days until iowa from campuses to the campaign trail. protests crash with cries that political correctness has gone too far. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good thursday from you, from the nation. capital. less than three months to go until voters start casting
ballots phase two of the presidential primary race, more candidates are getting comfortable going after each other directly. donald trump, of course, never shy about that. but now the fiver has spread. we've said all along immigration would be the leading issue and the biggest wedge issue inside the primary. now, we've achieved engagement. immigration debate has lit a fire. marco rubio emerged from the debate as new establishment front-runner and it's made him a target for ted cruz. cruz is banking on trump supporters coming to his side eventually. attack rubio and high lie trump's signature issue, immigration. >> when chuck schumer and barack obama joined with establishment republicans in pushing the massive amnesty plan, gang of eight bill, i joined side by side with senator jeff sessions, we led the fight to defeat amnesty. >> it's a direct knock, of course, on rubio's co-authorship on that bipartisan immigration
bill. rand paul doesn't think rubio should get off easily either. >> when marco got together and made a secret deal with chuck schumer to block all amendments, i knew really he was not going to allow any conservative immigration reform. >> rick santorum entered the fray. but he's going after cruz. and he says cruz, his attacks on rubio, are actually out of line. here's why -- >> he wants to double the number of legal immigrants in the country, increase 500% the number of h1b visas in country. to sound as he did how tough he is on the issue of illegal immigration when he says i want the gang of eight bill to pass. >> rubio climbed in with a similar critique. ted is a supporter of legalizing people in country illegally. in fact, when the senate bill was proposed, he proposed legalizing people that were here illegally. he proposed giving them work permits.
>> so, where's all of this coming from? cruz obviously in the crosshairs and now on the defensive. he had a different story in 2013, when he was offering an amendment to that ill fated senate immigration compromise. watch. >> if this amendment is adopted to the current bill the effect would be that those 11 million under this current bill would still be eligible for rpi status, they would still be eligible for legal status. >> so how will cruz answer back? more on the immigration clash and the simmering rivalries to come. what cruz is trying to argue is that when he was doing amendments, that he was just trying to make sure those folks didn't get a path to citizenship. but by offering the amendment he did he was offering an amendment that would give them a path to legalization. let's hit the press box. hallie jackson in south carolina, with the rubio campaign. katy tur in iowa with the trump
campaign, chris jansing in iowa covering the carson campaign. sarah dallof in columbia, missouri, the university of missouri system names a new interim president. back on the campaign trail, marco rubio. strong performance on the national stage put the spotlight on him. -he focuses on infrastructure in iowa and new hampshire rubio having to defend immigration record in south carolina. hallie jackson is in hilton head with the rubio campaign. so, obviously he'd been on the defensive but, boy, i mean, i believe ten minutes before air, i got a rubio campaign release that hit cruz right in the nose. >> reporter: about the piece of video and his support for that amendment that you just talked about, chuck. let's unpack that because there a couple of pieces at play here. crui cruz and his campaign, amendments were messaging amendments, they were meant to
expose what the campaign and cruz called hypocrisy of democrats unwilling to compromise. cruz voted against that bill. and in the campaign said he has been consistent in opposition to that and position on immigration. he calls now this gang of eight bill, he says it's a massive amnesty plan as he auctitalked taking aim at marco rubio. i asked about that here in hilton head. hear how senator rubio responded. >> everybody on that page supported the legalization of people in this country illegal. every single one of them has supported than some of them define that as amnesty. i don't think, i think it's forgive without consequence of violation. >> reporter: is rubio on offense or defense? an al qaeda telaide says they'r neutralize the issue. marco rubio and ted cruz, personal relationship, both said
they are not interested in attacking other candidates personally but interested in drawing policy contrasts. i asked rubio if he and ted cruz are friends, of course they are and hold similar positions on most issues. >> all 100 snor senators claim they're friends with each other. take that with a grain of salt. >> reporter: one thing, quickly. on this h-1b visa issue, there's reporting that ted cruz says these abuses reported in that h-1b visa program need to be examined. he's working on some reform with senator session there's. i knee that has been another issue on the campaign trail we'll be talking about for a while. >> this is cruz, cruz is trying to be the most hard line on immigration but trump i don't think is ever going to let him be that. the man who says, speaking of trump, he brought the immigration topic into the race is not going to let it go. and while the establishment candidates duke it out, trump is
hitting ben carson in the rink calling carson weak and connecting him with the dreaded a-word, amnesty. katy tur live in ft. dodge, iowa, where trump will be holding a rally tonight. immigration, another type of fight between trump and carson. >> reporter: yeah, donald trump you can get much harder line on immigration than he is now. he has the most definitive plan base tloically to get everybody of here undocumented. yesterday he said that donald trump's plan wasn't pragmatic, wasn't republican, and that it wasn't something that was going to help him down the line, only going to end up hurting donald trump. carson has said in the past he can't round him up, you have to register them you shouldn't give them the right to vote, the goodies of this country. donald trump does not believe that. he has been hitting immigration since the beginning. it's one of the issues he has stayed true to himself on, not wavering at all. he's been silent on the cruz and
rubio squabble so far today. the campaign said, taking a backseat to watch them battle it out. of course trump has been clear on his position. but we do expect to hear more from him tonight on that issue. it is an open field for him once he starts hitting immigration. so i do expect to see attacks on both cruz, carsoning rubio, jeb, anyone's game. >> you got it. look, immigration is the reason that launched the candidacy, he'll never let it go. let's turn to ben carson now. he's doubling down on his friend. with a dentist who pleaded guilty to health care fraud. dr. costa, ben carson had a friendship with him that spans two decades. carson urged the court to keep him out of prison though said similar offenses deserve ten-year prison sentences. carson said today, he's my best
friend. al costa is my very best friend. i know his heart. i'm proud to call him my friend. i have always and will continue to stand by him than is what real friends do. joining me now, chris jansing in greenville. he did not defend what costa was accused of. he simply said he's sticking by his friend, fair way to read it? >> reporter: i think that is one fair way to read it. i should tell you, chuck, i just finished talking to the prosecutor on the case, he's now retired, we've tracked him down exclusively. he said they argued for the max, and the reason why is, they believed that this doctor, this oral surgeon, was essentially lining his coffers with money from insurance companies, illegally, as a way to build up his business that when it was eventually sold they would have a big client base and that would mean he would get more money for it. so they argued at the time, we
should say that the doctor pled guilty, they argued at the time for the maximum. but 40 people wrote letters, including ben carson. ben carson traveled to actually testify at the sentencing hearing talking about what a great guy he wassing how much work he had done for ben carson's charity and never did get prison time. what he got was house arrest for a year in an 8,000-square foot nan nan mansion in florida. he did community service. that was reduced because of work he did for his charity. and then there's the book. so here's what a the of people are raising eyebrows about. ben carson wrote a book subsequently after arguing for leniency for his friend, and he called for, in cases of fraud, the saudi arabian solution which he said should include ten years prison and loss of all personal possessions. so questions are being raised
tonight about whether or not it's one set of standards for the rich, your friends, another set of standards for everyone else. chuck? >> old hypocrisy issue, it will get you every time when you run for office. chris jansing in south carolina with the carson campaign. thanks very much. of course the other big story bubbling all day, unrest continues on college campuses across the country following some racially charged incidents. students joined in demonstrating at ithaca college, columbia university, university of dayton, historically black howard university. outgoing chancellor at university of missouri has now congratulated the interim president. michael middleton, the former deputy chancellor at the school. came out of retirement to take this temporary post. here what happens students are saying on campus today. >> my teacher chose to participates in the walkout, but instead of walking out, instead of doing the curriculum we talked about everything going on. >> i think that because of this,
a lot more people are informed what's going on campus. >> voice is being heard. that's pretty nice. >> sarah dole llopdollof. is there a sense of normally. >> reporter: in is some sense of normalcy. the new interim president is known to a lot of students, he got his undergraduate here, held leadership positions and taught here. retired in august but proving to be a very short lived retirement. he's already stepped into his duties as the interim systems president. he spoke at the announcement of his appointment, laying out his priorities moving forward. he says the time has come to address challenges, assuring all students on this campus they are safe here, that follows those threats posted on line this week. now the suspect in that case, 19-year-old hunter park, he made his first appearance in court
today where the judge denied a reduction in his bail. court papers are revealing that he told investigators he has a deep interest in the recent mass shooting at that oregon community college. when asked by investigators why he posted those threats online, he said, quote, i won't go there, so i don't know. students tell us classes were full today, things getting back to normal. however students who opted to leave when threats posted, they're going to stay away for the weekend, give things a chance to continue to calm down. >> thanks are calming there. are they going to stay calm in other college campuses? of course, those university of missouri protests sparked a culture clash on the campaign trail. we'll have the drastically different responses from many members of the 2016 field ahead. overseas, iraqi forces make progress against isis with the help of massive u.s. air strikes, more congressional
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president obama presented the medal of army to army captain florent groberg at the white house. captain groberg tackled a suicide bomber in 2012, saving lives of many other soldiers but leaving him badly injured. just the tenth living recipient of the medal of honor the country's highest honor for anybody who serves in the military. the 49th medal president obama presented. medal of honors presented by the president, commander in chief in the name of congress. no living veteran of the iraq war has been presented the
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institutions in the country. and in the case of missouri, i'm trying to figure out what it is that got the president fired. >> i think open discussion and having debate and protests all of that should be allowed to occur on college campuses. what's been occurring, though, we're getting shrinking, shrinking ability to have freedom of speech on campus. >> as i understand it, he didn't respond to the legitimate concerns of the acts of racism on the campus and may have missed an opportunity to try to heal the wounds and give people a sense the university had no tolerance of. >> people are so frightened of the politically correct police that they're willing to do things irrational in order to apiece them. >> carson's campaign is fund-raising off of the issue of political correctness today. he sent this e-mail to supporters calling on them to stand up for american values and against political correctness. the democrats running for president have been weighing in, too, bernie sanders tweeted,
quote, time to address structural racism on college campuses. hillary clinton retweet one of her staffers who wrote, racism has no place anywhere, let alone an institution of learning. joining me, james patterson, direct of africanic studies andance msnbc contributor. welcome to meet the press daily. i feel like we're having this heated fight between left and the right and it's -- some issues are getting conflated. issue of legitimate concern about racist incidents and then of course we've got the issue of political correctness. try to make some sense of it. >> i mean, it's -- this is a difficult situation for politicals who are engaged at presidential level in campaigns to be weighing in on because, at the root of this, this is not about politics, republicans and democrats. this is about the rights of
american students on the campuses of american universities to go to school, to feel safe in school, to attend class, to get their degrees, and to be treated equally on college campuses. so, it's ironic people are talking about political correctness because that done seem to make sense. it's also ironic people are talking about freedom of speech because students on campuses are exercising their rights to free speech to pursue what is one of the most essential rights in the united states, the right to education and the right to not be discriminated against particularly in public spaces. >> tell me about lehigh. >> it's interesting. i'm wearing all black today, chuck, i'm standing in solidarity with students at mizzou, a program that was started by students of color at lehigh to stand in solidarity with students at missouri. lehigh is not immune from the same kinds of institutional challenges that we see at these other places. the question that every institution as to ask -- they have to look at situation
closely -- the president of ms. due stms. mizzou steps down because he doesn't understand what's happening he understood too late. he didn't respond to various incidents over decades that required institutional leadership to address structural racism that's there. all of the institutions, storty about institutions being settled before slavery abolished, the upside down nature of the numbers where you 2% black faculty or 8% student body undergraduates those are structural challenges every institution across the nation has to look closely at and address it very actively and progressively. >> who is an institution that you think's doing it right? >> that's a good question. i mean, i don't want to pick or anoint any winners or losers here. the institutions that are doing it right are the ones that are not reacting in some knee-jerk
way, they're not reacting to frat boys who have on black face or unfortunate incident where the n word is used or the institutions that are getting it right are proactively in a sustained way in engaged in diversifying faculty, student body, including students, doing the work every day. so they don't get caught flatfooted like mizzou this week. >> what did the university of oklahoma get right that mizzou got wrong? >> well, i think, you know, the university of oklahoma, remember, there's a lot of talk always about black faculty and the reason why african-american studies sort of a hub for the ways in which students can find voice around the issues but also african-american studies have been driving the issue of diversifying faculty. i don't know if the university of oklahoma got it all right but, first of all, they sort of got rid of the fraternity, right, immediately, but secondly, they began to
immediately talk about how they diversify faculty, helps retain student of color, solve issues in the classroom. institutions of higher learning. we should be talking about issues in classroom spaces more than we are in these demonstrations sometimes. so i think -- i don't know if they got it right but their response was one that i think allowed the situation to diffuse more effectively. the question is where are they at now? have they sustained the effort? how many more black faculty have they hired? students are not going to he denied and that's clear when we look at different institutions rallying around missouri right now. >> let me go to the critique that you hear from ben carson and from some of the republicans about political correctness on campus. i think -- i see -- you're splitting two, two separate issues. and i think they're getting conflated here. and i think that the real issue that the right has there's a feeling that conservatives, they don't feel they're ever considered part as a way of
diversifying ideology in college campuses. >> yeah, i have to be honest, challenges of the institutions about demographic diversity, making sure demographics represent the society and the world that we live in. most of the institutions that we're talking about are ideologically diverse, politically diverse. people kind of have this theory of institutions of higher learning be filled with profirsters, there are conservative professes at all institutions. the reason political correctness is the wrong way to frame this, talking about students whose civil rights are being violated at institution of higher learning, called racial epithets, they don't feel safe on campus, not properly represented in the range of staff and faculty, american issues that republicans and democrats should rally around, we want our institutions of higher learning to reflect the global diverse world of that we live in. i don't know why they're talking about political correctness or free speech, right. students are exercising
rights to free speech to organize around their own civil rights at institutions of higher learning. we should all be supporting them. we should all be challenging our own institutions to be the best that they can be when it comes to these issues around social justice, equality, gender equality, all of these things what higher institution of learning are supposed to be about we have to get back to basics. again, it's about sustained, ongoing efforts, being pro active, not reactive or knee-jerk reactions to some incidents that crop up from time to time. >> james peterson, in pennsylvania, lehigh university, thanks for coming on the show. >> thank you. coming up, the role that former president george h.w. bush's legacy is playing in his son's quest for the 2016 nomination. how it's playing a role in its primary fight. and to help you accelerate, we've created a new company... one totally focused on what's next for your business.
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a major anti-isis offensive is now under way in iraq. the u.s.-led coalition forces launched over 20 air strikes against isis targets in the sinjar valley of northern iraq, which supports thousands of kurdish fighters on the ground. the goal to retake the isis-held town of sinjar, cut off a crucial isis supply line between the isis capital of raqqah in syria and mosul. the largest isis-controlled city in iraq. john kerry speak about the u.s.-led coalition behind the offensive. >> this coalition has only been together for 14 months. people forget that. last summer it did not even exist. and today, as we sit here, allied forces are engaged in a major operation to liberate sinjar itself, cut off highway 47, which is daish's main artery
into iraq. >> jim miklaszewski. this was u.s. supported with air strikes. no u.s. boots on the ground, correct? >> no u.s. boots on the ground technically. special operation forces in the sinjar mountains above sinjar assisting according to u.s. officials the peshmerga fighters in calling in air strikes. now, latest reports are that those 7500 pesh fighters with dozens of u.s. air strikes, have in fact had some progress that parts of that critical highway 47, that secretary kerry was talking about a minute ago, have been retaken, seized, by those peshmerga fighters. that can hole, that would cut off a critical supply line from isis headquarters up in raqqah, syria, through iraq to mosul. it's very early in this campaign
and seizing the highway does not mean they have taken the city. the isis fighters are heavily dug in there, they set up ied booby traps everywhere around the city. so that's going to be a more difficult part of the operation. but i guess you could call it a slight victory in the opening salvo, chuck. >> what are they doing, mik? i clear and hold situation? like the old surge and petraeus way of doing counterinsurgency, are they -- do they have enough forces, the kurds, to hold the area once they push isis back? >> with american-backed air strikes, you bet. 7,500 forces going into the city against several hundred, it's believed that they could hold sinjar. the big question, though, the target of mosul to the south, iraq's second largest city, which isis still has a chokehold
on, as a matter of fact. and before general dempsey, the former joint chiefs of staff chairman left that job a few months ago, he predicted that it would take up to three years to route isis from mosul. this is still a long haul ahead. >> that's for sure, jim miklaszewski at the pentagon, thank you. the offensive against isis in northern iraq is the latest part of operation inherent resolve launched a year ago. u.s.-led coalition conducted over 250 air strikes against isis. this, as the 50 special operation forces announced by the obama administration last month are now headed to syria. we have spend some time here focused on what, if any, authority the white house has to continue their war on isis. last week we were joined by senator tim kaine, who strongly questioned the legality of this current iteration of this war. >> we've lost american hostages,
service members not combat and a combat death, cost $4.7 billion, and congress has still not had a vote to authorize a war and the legal tlort authority is questi. >> now an unusual coalition of house democrats and house republicans signed on to a letter that presses their new speaker, paul ryan, to schedule a war authorization debate as soon as possible, worrying the fight against isis could drag on for years two members join me now, california democrat and montana republican. welcome to both of you. >> great to with you. >> do you believe the current war against isis is legal? >> there's a very serious question as to the legality of it. lawyers will argue everything but the fact of the matter is, basing it on a 2001 authorization to use force in afghanistan against al qaeda,
taliban, and related organizations. this situation that's currently playing out in iraq and in syria is really significantly and fundamentally different and in my view requires a new authorization to use force. congress has constitutional responsibility. we ought to carry it out. >> congressman, i asked paul ryan this on his first full day as speaker. the president announced those 50 special forces and i said, you know, are you going to -- do you feel as if congress needs to weigh in on this? and he was hesitant. i can tell you, leadership on both sides of the aisle they're the ones running from this issue. how are you going to convince speaker ryan to do this? >> well, the former s.e.a.l. commander, this is the way i see it, i think the president has the authority. but what's the plan? my concern when you put 50 special operations troops into harm's way, one, will it make a difference? i don't think 50 individuals will make a difference. are they protected? do they have security force around them? do they have a quick reaction
force if they get in trouble? do we have a pled did vac package in case shot? two concerns, one is what are they doing? and what purpose do they have as far as 50 individuals, going to make a difference? why are they there? secondly, are we supporting them or asking our troops to go into harm's way and if we fight we have to make sure troops have right equipment, training and right rules of engainment to win decisively in the battle. if those conditions aren't met we should question it. we need to have the debate. >> let me ask you, how many republicans do you think you have ready to sign on to this letter? >> you know, our caucus, obviously pro defense, but also i think as americans, this isn't a republican or democrat issue. this is an american issue. i'll go back to when we put our troops into harm's way, we've got to make sure it's afforded. when you look at that about
individuals, go in, behind enemy lines, what purpose, will it make a difference? and thus far we don't have a plan of what we're going to do in syria. the russian plan was submitted, not well received. we have now battle of sinjar. we have yet to support the kurds directly. so when you say it's a u.s.-led coalition, i'm not sure how much leadership is putting it into other than air strikes and we've seen air strike as loan don't have a chance of succeeding. >> congressman, do you feel like there's pressure on democratic leadership not to sort of speak up on your behalf? >> well, as congressman zinke said, there are a lot of operational questions, questions about how the war would be conduct but there's no question we are in a war. underlying point it's not authorized by congress in any formal way, and in that authorization, limitser no
limits would be debated and put into the authorization. for example, boots on the ground. the question that came up in the introduction to this interview are 50 or 10 or 20 special forces, boots on the ground? that's probably 20 boots. so, the question arises exactly what is authorized here. are we talking about bringing in battalion, heavy artillery, heavy equipment, or is this going to be an air strike in support of whom? are we going to support the kurds? what is the role of turkey? those things need debated. ultimately the taxpayers of the country are going to wind up paying for whatever it is. we need that debate. are the leaderships running away from it? i think they are. >> well, it's the impression i've gotten on the senate side. you guys are giving the same impression on the house side. congressman, working together on this. >> he played for the cal bears. i played for the ducks.
we both get along. >> look at that. even college football rivalries you can figure this out. thank you both. >> tang you. still ahead, what has jeb bush learned from the presidency of his father and brother? bush 41 biographer jon meacham joins me. a quest. the next horizon. everyone loves the chase. i brto get us moving.tein i'm new ensure active high protein. i help you recharge with nutritious energy and strength. i'll take that. yeeeeeah! new ensure active high protein. 16 grams of protein and 23 vitamins and minerals. ensure. take life in. this holiday, i can count on my going off list.again,
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tcount on someone's kid mistaking me for santa. i'm so sorry. come on sweetie. it's okay. and knowing right when my packages arrive. introducing real-time delivery notifications. one more reason this is our season. with u.s. air power backing kurdish forces in iraq the question of the bush legacy is playing prps a bigger role than ever in the 2016 presidential race. and while it's especially true for former governor jeb bush, it may be you could argue, it's a bigger issue for the entire republican party. but in jeb bush's bid for the gop nomination, jeb is driving in the american exceptionalist lane in those who want to limit american's role. bush at tuesday's debate after donald trump said he's fine
letting russia take on isis. >> we're not going to be the world's policemen but we better be the world's leader. there's a huge difference. without us leading, voids are filled. >> one of the myths of the bush legacy is that president george h.w. bush didn't think george w. bush should invade iraq but in an interview sunday bush 43 read an excerpt, recounting the counsel of his father on hussein in the run-up to the war. >> you know how tough war is son, the elder bush said arc lewding to afghanistan and you've got to try everything you can to avoid war. but if a man won't comply, you don't have any other choice. that's the great thing about objective historians. finally showing up. that's how you destroyed legends. >> joined by that objective historian himself, jon meacham, author of the new biography
"destiny and power, the american odyssey of george herbert walker bush." . let me start with this, one of the parlor games when it comes to jeb bush is, and and george b. wish, which is like poppy, which is like bar? i think the longer we go the theories change. >> yeah. >> you just did the definitive. who is who here? >> well, 43 is a lot more like his mother. they both would admit that. they're both sharper wits. they don't mind prodding a bit. it's not passive aggressive in their case, it's just aggress e aggressive. i think that jeb, we're seeing actually the governor bush has vices in his virtues of his father. in terms of his style. one thing that jeb does not have is kind of the sense of drive that 41 had.
41 once campaigning so nard 1980 that he hook the hand of a department store mannequin. so you don't really see that tha department store mannequin. you don't really see that happening here. it is a big complicated family. one thing i think is so striking here, both 41 and 43 ran values campaigns. they both knew how to go negative, not in person, which is what i think is an interesting distinction here. you remember the great -- great reagan debate where bush -- the union leader said 41 looked like the boy that was dropped off at the wrong birthday party. they're much better when they go negative with something like the ad against dole or the ads against dukakis.
i noticed just this week, jeb said, maybe it was yesterday, he said i'm the best bet. and one of the things that both 41 and 43 had had in common was the conviction they were the better man, they were the best man for the job. and i think that is just the case that is -- despite the reticence that is also part of the family, jeb needs to make that clearer. >> you know, i want to go to barbara bush, because the most fascinating grace notes in the book are always when you're quoting from her diary. and that is what we all do probably too much with the bush family. but when i read your book and read some of her diary entries and then thought about what she said on "the today show" a few more years back, no more bushes, no more clintons, it is barbara bush that seems to be exhausted from the idea that you get the
sense of jeb running, it's not about whether or not he can win or not, it's that she didn't want to put the family through that again, is that correct -- >> well, that is a fascinating point. her diary, which stretches back to 1948, is remarkable when you look at the perception an intelligent woman for well over half a century you would get a document like this. the first time she met the reagans she talked about how attractive they were. and she said of reagan, sometimes you know, he says nothing but he says it so well that you're impressed. i think she was her husband's strongest protector, president bush told me once she would be subtle with aides and advisers, the way he put it, but he said with me, she was not subtle at
all. she is a protective mother and wife. and just imagine having your family's whole life being kicked around -- by people like us all the time. >> right. and here we are, potentially another ten years of that if he gets lucky and wins this thing. john meecham, so much i want to talk to you about but they tell me i have to abide by certain time limits here. good luck with the tour. >> thank you. >> stay tuned, next, all things immigration. make sure you're covered for more than what just medicare pays... consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company... the only medicare supplement plans that carry the aarp name, and the ones that millions of people trust year after year. it's about having the coverage you need... plan well. enjoy life. go long. advil pain relievers are used by more households than any other leading brand. to treat their aches and pains more people reach for advil.
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i'm joined by reid wilson, of "morning consult." it exploded today on so many different angles, reid, ted cruz wants to be the aggressor, and wait a minute, you did say some things. >> ted cruz was instrumental in building george w. bush's campaign, that was a big part of his portfolio. and cruz has never really come out with what would happen with these undocumented immigrants who are in the u.s. right now. there is going to be a lot of pressure on everybody, from rubio to bush. >> four times, what do you do with the 11 million, what are you doing with the 11 million? i'm not discussing it yet, we'll discuss border security yet.
>> and they just can't -- maybe they can stand four times -- >> if everybody else is going to keep dng it. >> everybody is going to have to come up with an answer to that and it's not going to be a very pretty answer. it will be an expensive answer and a politically unattractive answer to the voters, especially the voters after the republican primary. >> but would you rather it be cruz with this record or rubio? >> no question, marco rubio has his name attached to the bill that is most unpopular in the conservative commentators who are talking about this. this is the bizarre choice that the republican party faces. the incentive for a candidate right now is to be as hard right as possible on the immigration. the consensus for the general election candidate, remember when jeb bush was ready to lose the primary -- don't forget, president obama got 71% of the hispanic vote in 2012. >> when this debate is done, hillary clinton may be up to 80,
if they're not careful how they handle this. but the question is, can he out-trump, trump? >> he does have a plan, he is going to send them all out. >> i'm waiting to see the uniforms on the deportation plan. >> he said what he will do with that. will it put extra pressure on cruz? >> i think it does, one thing heavy has not mentioned yet, he has been squishy about it in the past, is ben carson, okay? where is he going to go? because he doesn't have a record that he is stuck with, ala rubio. and he has a lot of kind of moral support and emotional support among the republican base. but where does he go on this subject when he is really pushed on this? >> and who ends up attacking? i have always thought this was the biggest problem for a jeb bush and marco rubio candidacy. if jeb bush is not in the
picture anymore does all the fire turn to rubio? we started to see the rest of the field, listening to laura ingraham, that is all they talk to is listening to marco rubio, talking about immigration. will that be the thing that kills him in the primary? >> we knew this moment was coming, and today is where it will be an ongoing fight. thank you for joining us, we'll be right back with more mtv daily tomorrow. but steve kornacki picks up our coverage right now on msnbc right now. >> right now on msnbc, immigration reform and the republicans, the 2016 candidates go at each other on amnesty, and there is more on donald trump's plan to deport 11 million undocumented immigrants. and also breaking news from lebanon whereer