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tv   MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts  MSNBC  November 13, 2015 10:00am-12:01pm PST

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about the results of this particular action. but the fact that we were even able to conduct this air strike i think is some indication that we are serious about applying pressure to isil leaders and to using that intelligence to do that. again, in the case of mr. emwazi, somebody who is an isil leader, strategist for that organization and somebody who was actively involved in their online recruitment and radicalization efforts, that made him a target worth going after. >> reporter: as you mentioned earlier, this individual had a role in the deaths of some western hostages. i'm wondering if the white house has reached out today or yesterday to the families of those hostages and if you could describe what kind of outreach was done for them. >> i can confirm that a number
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of families of hostages who have been killed in syria were contacted in advance of public reports to let them know this operation had taken place. the reason for that is simply that when these kinds of operations take place, once again, it elevates the media attention around their loved one and so hearing from us first-hand about that is something that we try to do. this was something that was done consistent with the process that was established by the task force that the president announced earlier this year, over the summer, to talk about how the united states will handle the cases of american hostages that are being held around the world. one of the goals of that new structure was to streamline and improve our communication with hostage families and -- or the families of hostages, and this
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is one example of how that process has been made more efficient by the structure we have put in place. >> reporter: briefly, on the bipartisan meeting you're having on tpp, how concerned is the white house and the president that the tpp is becoming kind of a target of bipartisan criticism in the 2016 campaign with both democrats involved in the campaign and republicans who are running? >> not particularly. again, primarily because this was when congress was working to advance trade promotion authority legislation over the summer, something that did not enjoy bipartisan support on the campaign trail, but yet we were able to succeed in building bipartisan support for that legislation on capitol hill. if anything, we believe that our case is strengthened by the fact we have a final agreement that includes, for example, 18,000 tax cuts.
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i think that will make our case even more persuasive to members of congress who actually have a vote on the matter. so i also think that the meeting the president will convene today with national security experts in both parties serves as a useful illustration that when you set aside politics -- >> breaking away from the white house briefing with josh earnest there, speaking about trade and the tpp but most importantly, earlier he started his discussions talking about the u.s. military strike targeting the notorious isis terrorist known as jihadi john, considered really a valuable contributor to isis in the words of josh earnest, of course saying the military targeted and they believe that they killed jihadi john but that's something josh earnest couldn't confirm. final word coming from defense department officials. let's take a listen to more of what he said just moments ago. >> we killed the target that we
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intended to kill which is jihadi john. it will take some time as it always does for us to be able to finally formally declare we know we have had success. >> that was word from pentagon officials from earlier today. a little bit more about jihadi john. his real name is mohammed emwazi. he is associated with the killings of seven westerners, including three americans. i want to walk you through with more of that we know. a senior defense official tells nbc news that the united states has overhead video showing an individual believed to be jihadi john leaving a building in raqqa and getting into a vehicle. and that is the vehicle that was struck by a u.s. drone. officials also tell nbc news there were three mq-9 reaper drones overhead tracking jihadi john. meanwhile, this morning, secretary of state john kerry issued a dire warning to isis and terrorists. >> we are still assessing the results of this strike, but the
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terms associated with daesh need to know this. your days are numbered and you will be defeated. >> we have team coverage on this breaking story. nbc's keir simmons is in london. nbc's courtney kubi is at the pentagon. in a few minutes we will hear from an nbc terror analyst and a former supreme allied commander at nato. i want to start with keir simmons who joins us from london, where jihadi john was from. talk a little more about his background here. we are talking about somebody in his youth who wanted to play professional soccer. his teachers who knew him describe him as quiet and smart but now we are seeing josh earnest call him one of the valuable contributors to isis. >> reporter: yeah. that's right. look, he is of course to most people watching the guy that you saw in those videos masked with the british accent holding a knife, standing next to innocent victim after innocent victim, hostages who were then murdered and then he would stand next to
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them and deliver more words. so that's the guy people know. how he got there is a question of some debate. we do know that he was from north london, he grew up -- got into a gang, then became radicalized, then headed for syria. this is what the british prime minister had to say about him a little while ago. so the british -- we don't have that sound bite but the british prime minister describing him as isis' lead executioner, saying he killed many muslims, we should never forget that, and he was intent on killing many more people, and saying therefore that his killing was an act of self-defense. you heard the white house there kind of reiterating that, saying look, the reason why we needed to remove this guy was because he was inspiring people and that was a threat not just to the region but to the united states and all western countries. so that's what they're saying. by the way, their description of
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what happened and they do say they were watching this vehicle and then they fired at it, was that this vehicle was incinerated with they think jihadi john inside, which means they won't have dna. they are waiting to hear chatter amongst isis militants to see if they can confirm it really was him through those conversations. >> but considering a huge victory there, keir, to the uk and the brits, knowing they have been working hand in hand with the united states for over a year in very precisely watching jihadi john, his movement and figuring the best time to fight. they figured in this location there in raqqa would be the best time given their intelligence. >> reporter: yeah, that's right. at the same time, some of the families of his victims making statements that are both heartfelt and thoughtful. so for example, the family of steven sotloff, the american family, he an american journalist, saying this morning, his mother, i haven't really heard the news. if they got him, great.
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but it doesn't bring my son back. >> keir simmons in london, appreciate that update. want to bring in from the pentagon, nbc's courtney kubi. when we talk about this, our intelligence sources say the car and the bodies were obliterated and incinerated and now everybody waiting to see confirmation, even with the pentagon saying that there is pretty much reasonable certainty that jihadi john was killed. that dna evidence may be difficult to get. >> it's not just the fact that the vehicle and the two individuals inside were incinerated by the hellfire missile that was fired from that drone, but it's just the location of where it occurred. it occurred in raqqa, which is isis' stronghold, the capital of their caliphate. there are no u.s. certainly military, but not u.s. personnel there on the ground who would be able to go in and get the kind of forensic evidence that would be necessary to determine whether in fact this was jihadi john who was killed in this
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strike. so what the u.s. is relying on here for any kind of confirmation is two things. number one, they have the overhead surveillance video where they saw someone they believe to be mohammed emwazi, jihadi john, get into a vehicle with another individual, a driver who has been described as his best friend or friend, that's sort of a colloquialism the u.s. uses as driver. they got in the vehicle together and that's the vehicle that was struck and the two individuals were killed. the second means they have to determine whether in fact he was killed is any kind of chatter, whether that's on the internet, any kind of signals intelligence, intercepts they get, where they are hearing about isis fighters speak about him. the only other option, the only other confirmation they will have is if in fact he was not killed and he shows up on a video somewhere, obviously that would be another indication of what happened here. but as far as any kind of dna evidence, that's just not in the cards for this. >> courtney, thank you very much.
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the families of the victims of jihadi john are reacting to these developments. here's what the mother of james foley told abc news. >> it's just so sad that our precious resources have been, you know, concentrated to seek revenge, if you will, or kill this man when if a bit of them had been utilized to save our young americans, that's what our country should be doing. >> want to bring in msnbc terror analyst and director of middle east and north africa research and also admiral james stavrides, former allied commander at nato, author of "the accidental admiral" and dean of the fletcher school at tufts university. welcome. what is considered significant
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here is the awhere and the who and trying to figure out how much of a setback this is for isis, and jihadi john one of the most notorious terrorists with isis. >> i believe this is a major tactical success for the u.s.-led coalition. this in some ways breaks the mor morale in the ranks of isis. the most wanted among those ranks has been featured before and have played a role in recruitment and of course executions just like mr. emwazi. of course, this is with high degree of certainty but not 100% certainty that he was taken out. there is some speculation revolving around this incident but this is definitely something to break the morale of isis fighters. >> it's certainly interesting as far as delving into his specific role with isis. colonel steve warren spoke about that this morning. i want to play that. let's listen. >> jihadi john was somewhat of
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an isil celebrity, if you will. kind of the face of the organization in many senses. so there is certainly i think a significant blow to their prestige of isil, but jihadi john wasn't a major tactical figure. >> interesting when you hear about that, knowing that his role wasn't necessarily contributing to the strategy or the operations of isis, more as a celebrity, as a figure knowing social media is so important and how his influence was carried through that. talk a little bit about that and how that can even put a dent into the efforts of isis. >> yeah. i think there's a very large recruiting proseletyzing component here because of his stature, which your commentators have correctly outlined, taking out somebody like jihadi john sends a very negative message down the pipe of what can happen at the far end.
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now, the counterveiling is a sense of martyrdom, of dying in a greater cause but on the recruiting side, this will be helpful to slow down that flow that's coming particularly from europe, many from the united kingdom. in terms of his tactical impact, i don't see him as a figure who was directing or constructing the grand strategy of the islamic state. as we saw with al qaeda, you can take out a lot of these second tier, third tier figures without really damaging the organization. so i think the main victory here is the recruiting piece of this and the fact that as several have said, that we did this in raqqa. >> also, the morale overall with isis. in speaking about that, the admiral brought up martyrdom here. can that be used as far as the surge of recruitment overall or how can that be spun for isis to
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use it in their advantage? >> certainly isis and other radical factions have always done this. somebody who is an iconic figure like mr. emwazi would be featured in its propaganda videos for recruitment. they would lionize him as somebody who is iconic and somebody who defended the islamic state essentially, he is a celebrity jihadist who was featured in multiple videos so that -- them using his picture in their videos would urge retaliation against u.s. forces and allied forces. >> admiral, as we wait confirmation from the department of defense whether or not jihadi john is in fact dead, killed by the strikes, what can you tell us about the intelligence? u.s. intelligence on this, the use of drones, the overhead surveillance video, they were able to narrow down and see, and target him as he's getting out of this building and into the vehicle, which they bombed. what more can you take away from that? >> simply that this kind of strike is the result of a decade
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of conducting similar operations, many of them on the borders of afghanistan and pakistan. this is a combined cia/department of defense type operation. this one could flow on either side of that or be jointly constructed. but we have become very capable at this and it is very much a tool in the quiver that you are going to continue to see used. i want to make a larger point. vastly more important than the death of jihadi john, what's happening now is the attack against sinjar and the kurdish peshmerga taking that centrally located city out of play for the islamic state. when you put those two things side by side, it's a pretty good day for the coalition. >> very quickly, while i have you here, i know it's a rigorous process to determine in fact if jihadi john has been killed. is there any kind of timeline the defense department will follow or that you can expect or anticipate? >> they will want to make
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absolutely sure. nothing would be worse than declaring him dead and having him pop up alive on a video. i would say this will probably be about a three to seven day period, because it will depend on chatter on the net. we have to wait for that to build a bit. >> chatter and to determine if that chatter is authentic in itself. to both of you, thank you. appreciate your time. still to come, we will take you live to the sunshine state where gop candidates are taking the stage today, including donald trump, following that kni 95-minute rant taking on everyone from ben carson to the people of iowa and isis. >> i would just bomb those suckers. and that's right, i would blow up the pipes. i would blow up the -- i would blow up every single inch. there would be nothing left. (vo) you can check on them.
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our top political story right now, donald trump's epic rant against dr. ben carson last night and some are calling the speech just simple as this, an implosion. dr. carson responded just a short time ago. we'll have that in a moment. first, just a small sample of how trump unloaded on carson. >> now, carson's an enigma to me. he said that he's pathological and that he's got basically pathological disease. now, if you're pathological, there's no cure for that, folks. okay? if you're a child molester, a sick puppy, you're a child molester, there's no cure for that. he took a knife and went after a friend and he lunged, he lunged that knife but lo and behold, it hit the belt.
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it hit the belt and the knife broke. give me a break. how stupid are the people of iowa? how stupid are the people of the country to believe this crap? >> trump went on for 95 minutes. dr. ben carson, on the other hand, he's in south carolina today. during a media availability, he was asked about trump's attacks, including the child molester comment. here's what he had to say. >> i'm hopeful that maybe his advisors will help him to understand the word pathological and recognize that that does not denote incurable. >> reporter: in calling you a child molester, do you believe he owes you an apology? >> i don't believe he called me a child molester. >> reporter: he compared your pathology to child molestation. >> i always find it a little amusing what people in the press like to say. you compare this and therefore you said this. i don't buy all that stuff.
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so those are questions which you can ask donald trump. >> joining me, nbc's chris jansing, whose voice you just heard asking dr. carson about trump's comments. she is in south carolina following the carson campaign. chris, good to see you. you can expect this kind of thing but interesting, is this the strategy from ben carson kind of just we're just going to play nice about this whole thing, kill them with kindness. that is the strategy? >> reporter: i don't know if it's killing them with kindness but it's letting ben carson be ben carson is what aides have said all along. i think they look at i and say look at the comparison, who looks more presidential. i think they like where they come out on that. but more, there's a real serious political question here of strategy on donald trump's side. you have someone who first of all, by every measure, is the most personally popular person in the race and yet you're targeting him in south carolina, in iowa, where a large part of primary caucus voters are
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evangelical christians, you are questioning his personal story which involves a redemptive moment and mocking it. i think they like where they are on that. they're not going to as he says, as dr. carson said, he's not going to get down in the mud with anybody and they like the fact that he's able to move on and talk about other things. having said that, it's also interesting that donald trump would choose this time to do it when there are some questions being raised about dr. carson, about his association with his best friend who is a convicted felon, who he has written about, he's written about wanting to get tough on people who commit medical fraud and yet he testified on behalf of his best friend, arguing for more leniency by that testimony. also questions about the depth of his foreign policy knowledge, his campaign put out a set of papers this morning defending a
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statement he made at the debate that a lot of foreign policy experts have questioned. so donald trump going on the attack about his personal story deflects from some of those other questions and i don't think that's a bad place for the campaign to be right now. >> thank you. nbc's chris jansing for us. good to see you. want to bring in josh barrow, who writes for the "new york times" and is an msnbc contributor and lynnette lopez. glad to have you both with me. we have 95 minutes just like trump did to talk about this, it's what you need. donald trump didn't end it with that 95 minutes. he had an instagram post just within the last hour or two where he basically has ben carson speaking video of that with a "friday the 13th" theme song going and the full screen, he says pretty much violent criminal, pathological liar, we don't need either for president. josh, what happened to the more toned down, more mature donald
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trump we were supposed to see? >> we were supposed to see? >> there were those reports he was, you know -- >> i feel like since donald trump's campaign started, he keeps doing things and people are like did he really go there? wow, he really went there, he really did. >> but that's how he does things. >> in the beginning people were like he can't do that, he's going to fall apart. he kept not falling apart. one remarkable thing about this race is the stability of donald trump. he has been polling right around 25% for basically four months now. none of this seems to push him down in the polls or up in the polls. >> why this latest one? why 95 minutes? why the attack? >> i think that ben carson's very very nice and donald trump is like that guy who keeps asking you out over and over in high school and you're like no, no, but he's really popular so you kind of entertain it, then he's like you know what, you're ugly anyway, i don't even like you. then he calls the people of iowa stupid. it's like he's lashing out from that rejection. i think that's what really gets to him, this we actually like ben carson more than you because he's a nice guy.
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>> donald trump is basically an insult comic. for other candidates, if they called the voters of iowa stupid that would be a big mistakes. that's what he does. if he doesn't insult you it's like he's not including you. >> we talked about this before, saying oh, this is going to be the beginning of the end, the beginning of the end. how many beginnings of many ends have we seen and yet, the turn-around has been right there. will this be the turning point? >> i doubt it. >> i think the more interesting question is, is this the beginning of the end of the establishment of the republican party. you're looking at ben carson and donald trump just winning the day and the establishment candidate, jeb, is -- >> the "washington post" is writing about it, time for gop panic is how they are writing about it today. >> saying there that friends of mitt romney are talking about whether there's a way for mitt romney to get into this race. >> these have been the guys, friends of mitt romney have been the guys who settled the establishment candidates for the last two cycles in the presidential cycle for the republicans and they are starting to lose control of the party.
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it seems very evident. now they're like okay, do we switch to rubio? we don't really necessarily like rubio that much. our friend bloomberg is definitely not going to run. he has better things to do. romney is like twice bitten, thrice shy. >> no, no, no, saying not going to do it. you have people saying we can lay down a sfrtrategy and jump late. >> your question about why go after ben carson now, it's because ben carson doesn't have a ton of negatives in the republican field. if donald trump wants to get his numbers over 25, he needs to find a way to convince people they shouldn't like ben carson. that reflects how -- what a terrible position the establishment is, if it's a fight between these two people, it's supposed to be a fight twn one of them and the guy who can actually be a candidate. >> the donors sitting there with their money just waiting. got to leave it there. wish we had 95 minutes. i'm sure we would eat up that time. great to have you both with me. still to come here on msnbc, we will play the entire rant from donald trump where he went
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after his opponents one by one. i know you both are looking at me like you are so shocked about this. i'm telling you, he was going on and on. it's certainly a political story everyone is talking about today. keep everybody up to date and stay tuned for that. how you doing? hey! how are you? where are we watching the game?
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♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ there are experts who say the death of jihadi john if confirmed, the united states air strike of which he was the target would serve as a major blow to the morale of isis. the isis executioner whose real name is mohammed emwazi became the masked face of the islamic state's propaganda machine. the air strike in raqqa, syria came just hours after twin suicide bombings rocked the city of beirut in lebanon and isis has claimed responsibility for that attack. at least 43 people were killed and 239 wounded. that country is now in a day of mourning. msnbc foreign correspondent ayman mohyeldin is in beirut. tell us more about the situation there today, especially after isis sending this message to hezbollah with such a strong
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hold there in southern beirut. when it comes to hezbollah. >> reporter: yeah. well, there was an emergency meeting here in beirut, the lebanese capital, senior ranking political officials of the government were meeting to discuss the ongoing security situation. certainly the terrorist attack that happened yesterday is going to be a major cause of concern. this was one of the deadliest attacks in lebanon over the past several years, particularly since the civil war in syria began. the country continues to mourn what happened on thursday and investigators continue to go through to see exactly who was behind it. there were two individuals responsible for the first wave of attacks. a third individual believed to have killed himself or at least died before he was able to kill himself and detonate his third explosive. we missouknow that the forensic investigation continues.
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there is a claim of responsibility by isis widely believed to be credible but it adds a new layer to this conflict in syria. for the past several years, hezbollah has been supporting the government, fighting on the ground against groups trying to topple the syrian regime. isis is one of those groups. isis now sending fighters here into lebanon to carry out the types of attacks they say they did yesterday is going to raise the pressure on this country a little bit more. it is certainly a very difficult situation for the lebanese government as they try to remain neutral from what is happening inside syria but constantly seeing violence spill over here. >> ayman mohyeldin reporting in beirut, appreciate that update. thank you. u.s. forces have conducted more than 6,000 air strikes in iraq and syria as part of targeted operations against the islamic state. but are the stepped-up strikes in line with the american public's appetite for military intervention? msnbc host and political correspondent steve kornacki joins me with more analysis on that. the demands out there knowing
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you can make a dent here or there when it comes to isis and their threat but what will make the biggest difference? >> it's interesting, obviously in light of this attack in beirut yesterday, the potential involvement of isis and the downing of that russian airliner a couple weeks ago, this leads to the question of should the united states, should the west be doing more to fight isis. the president himself did commit 50 special forces a few weeks ago but has largely resisted a broader u.s. intervention. he was asked about it this morning on "good morning america." he said some of the reports of isis' growing strength might be overstated but certainly the group has not been decapitated yet. >> what we have not yet been able to do is to completely decapitate their command and control structures. we have made some progress in trying to reduce the flow of foreign fighters and part of our goal has to be to recruit more effective sunni partners in iraq
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to really go on offense rather than simply engage in defense. >> as the president is making this argument, there are many voices, particularly in the republican party, calling for much more aggressive intervention. there are even voices in the democratic party, hillary clinton, for instance, who are calling for more steps like the no-fly zone in syria. where does the public stand on all this? let's take you through the numbers here. this is the first poll that was taken after president obama's announcement of those 50 special forces heading to syria. 43% of the public now supports ground troops fighting isis, 53% a slight majority oppose it. interestingly, that is a drop in support from a few months ago so it seems as if the president's announcement that 50 troops are actually going to go over there, that gave people some pause. that gave them some cold feet about the idea of sending troops. there's a bare majority that now says no, we shouldn't be sending troops. how about this question. this is interesting. if you break it down by party,
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56% of republicans say yeah, we want ground troops over there. much less support when you get to independents, and democrats are at 37%. more aggression, more hawkishness coming from the republican side on this. also look at this question from a couple months ago but it's interesting. it asks was it a mistake in the first place to send troops to iraq. you get to see how the public mood has shifted on the basic question of u.s. involvement in the middle east over the last decade or so. if you go all the way back to 2003 when the troops were first over there to topple saddam hussein, 75% of the country said no, not a mistake at all. remember, at the beginning, this looked like a smashing success. 2008, things turned really downhill. clear majority saying it was a mistake. if you do it now, those numbers are a little bit more even. so people are looking at the chaos now and some people are rethinking that idea of if it was a mistake to be in iraq in the first place. >> interesting to see when it comes from the latest effort from the administration, how
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that changes those numbers. steve kornacki, thank you very much. still to come, ben carson was not donald trump's only target. apparently hillary clinton, too. is she playing the women card? apparently trump may seem to think so. ya know, viagra helps guys with erectile dysfunction get and keep an erection. talk to your doctor about viagra. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. ask your doctor about viagra.
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are we going to see new tacts from bernie sanders? >> reporter: we could. the stakes couldn't be higher for hillary clinton. her goal is to really match that strong first debate performance that she had. she has been preparing, taking a few days off of the campaign trail. today her campaign released a list of leadership council's in missouri and vermont, of course that is bernie sanders states, top officials who pledged their support to helping her get elected. the goal there really to send a strong message to the sanders camp that secretary clinton does have a strong backing. i have been talking to aides close to bernie sanders who tell me he has been vigorously preparing for this debate as well. we can expect to see him really try to draw some sharper contrasts with secretary clinton over a number of key issues like the economy, trade, immigration. expect to see the same thing from martin o'malley. we heard him really sharpen his attacks against secretary clinton in recent days. this is going to be a vigorous debate. only three candidates instead of
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five this time. frances, secretary clinton going into this second debate really on strong footing. according to the latest poll, she leads senator sanders by 19 points. so she's in a strong position. her campaign really trying to lower the expectations but the stakes high for all three candidates. >> nbc's kristen welker, thank you very much. i want to bring in democratic congressman javier becera of california. he has endorsed hillary clinton. we appreciate your being with us here. want to ask you about this, ahead of this debate with the "new york times" reporting that senator sanders is preparing this new line of attack, going at hillary clinton on trade, gun control, even bringing up e-mails, so knowing where you stand with her, how do you expect her to be on the defensive on that with those attacks? >> i don't think she will be on the defensive at all. in fact, i think this campaign, having the candidates out there really tackling the issues has
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been good for secretary clinton. my sense is that like the previous debate, you will see the best of hillary clinton come out and i think bernie sanders and martin o'malley help us see the best of secretary clinton. i look for a vig yoorous debate. i love it when they go at it on the issues unlike the republican debates, when they go at it on personalities. this is the opportunity to see the difference between republicans and democrats. democrats are willing to tackle the issues. republicans want to tackle each other. >> it would be interesting for them to go at it but it would also be very interesting to watch donald trump and hillary clinton go at it, especially in light of what donald trump said about her last night as part of 95 minutes he was going on and on. let's take a listen. >> we have candidates running, you have hillary, who is a disaster. she's playing the woman card up. that's all she has. honestly, outside of the woman's card she's got nothing going. believe me. >> okay. strong statement there.
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outside of the woman's card, implying maybe that's the only thing she has, she has nothing going. your response? >> donald trump's full of lots of adjectives. he just doesn't have any solutions. at some point the circus will ebd end on the republican side and we will figure out who the real nominee will be. i believe secretary clinton will talk about how we will increase wages, get all americans back to work, make sure that everyone has a chance to buy the first home, send their kids to college, then secure that retirement. those are the things she will focus on. let them go ahead and have their circus, whether it's donald trump or whoever else. there's no one better tested than secretary clinton when it comes to whether it's the halls of congress, the campaign trail or the hot spots around the world. secretary clinton proved it. she proved it again at this charade of a benghazi hearing that 11 hours worth of testimony. she's ready and i think she's hitting her stride. all of this is going to help her really show the american people
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what she'll do when she's president of the united states. >> let me ask you this. you call it a kcircus. you have the sunshine summit in orlando where the other gop candidates will be there. immigration will come up with marco rubio and bush there as well. is there a sense on your part that pretty much that hillary clinton can just sit back and let the gop go back and forth, that that is doing her and the party a favor? >> they certainly are, especially on something like immigration, making it very easy to let the public see that these guys are not ready for prime time. when republicans are fighting about how to make the situation on immigration worse, we probably could just sit back and watch and feel comfortable knowing that there's actually a candidate, hillary clinton, who wants to come up with solutions. but i don't believe secretary clinton is just going to sit around and wait. she's going to go out there and be on the offensive. that's why again, as i said before, i think it's really good
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that we have had a vigorous debate on the democratic side. i applaud bernie sanders and martin o'malley for getting out there. i think it's just making hillary clinton a much better candidate so she'll be ready to be a very, very good president. nchgs >> we will see how they come back fighting during that debate. congressman, thank you very much. >> thank you. want to bring you breaking news out of utah, where a judge has just delayed his decision to take a baby away from her lesbian foster parents. this is kind of a high profile story we brought you earlier this week. the judge said the baby would be removed from the couple's home and placed with a heterosexual couple citing research that shows children do better when raised by heterosexual families. the american psychological association said there is no scientific basis that same sex couples are unfit parents based on sexual orientation.
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dealing with yet another fallout from another scandal. nbc's kelly o'donnell is at the white house. kelly, tell us more about this, especially with the agency already bruised from past scandals. >> reporter: well,frances, this to do with the conduct of one individual uniformed division officer. not something directly related to protection of the president. lee moore, 37 years of maryland worked for the uniformed division was arrested and charged with suspicion of sending illicit material to a minor. he was communicating according to authorities with an undercover officer but thought he was communicating with a 14-year-old girl. he's removed from the position and the security clearance taken away. immediate steps taken by the bosses at the secret service but here today was the first chance for the white house to respond. here's white house spokesman josh earnest. >> the allegations included in them are disgusting.
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and allegations that the administration including the secret service takes quite serious seriously. i think the fact that as soon as the secret service became aware of this information that they acted is an indication of how seriously they take this matter. >> reporter: so this was a sexting type of behavior according to authorities and may have happened while he was on duty in a white house grounds and the type of role that has been described that he even -- his communication with the supposed girl which was an undercover officer talking about being in a small box, checking i.d.s. so the case against him is just beginning and removed from his position. frances? >> different from the other scenarios where the behavior happened outside of the white house when the agents were off duty. kelly, thank you very much. all right. well you probably know if you check the calendar, it is friday the 13th and comes the usual
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and help stop joint damage. enbrel, the number one rheumatologist-prescribed biologic. two more republican candidates duking it out. this time ted cruz taking on marco rubio on immigration. thursday rubio dismisses cruz's criticism of the bill rubio co-authorizing saying he
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supported legislation similar to his own. today, cruz dismissed the idea of any similarity during a radio interview. listen to that. >> i laughed out loud at that. that was -- marco's a friend but that statement was truly stunning. i mean, that's like obama saying my position is the same as his on obamacare. that's like the ayatollah saying my position is the same as his on the iranian nuclear deal. >> it is. >> it is laufingly on his face false. >> rubio has come you should fire from conservatives for that legislation. many in the party consider the bill as not conservative enough. still ahead, donald trump's 90-minute plus rant in iowa. it is the political story people are talking about. when we come back, we'll play and analyze the key moments. is jihadi john alive or
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good to be with you on this friday. i'm frances rivera in for thomas roberts. we begin with a political story that has everyone talking today. donald trump's epic rant last night in iowa. he was at the podium in fort dodge for 95 minutes and then went after dr. ben carson on a level not seen before. >> no. if you're pathological, there's no cure for that, folks. okay? if you're a child molester, a sick puppy, you're a child molester, that's no cure for that. he took a knife and he went after a friend and he lunged, he lunged that knife. but lo and behold it hit the belt. it hit the belt. and the knife broke. give me a break. >> and dr. carson responded
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today speaking to reporters at bob jones university in south carolina. and he called on his opponent to end what he termed, quote, politics of personal destruction. >> in calling you a child molester, do you believe he owes you an asnolg. >> i don't believe he called a me a child molester. >> he compared your pathology to child molestation. >> well, you know, i find it always a little amusing what people in the press like to say. you compared this and therefore you said they're the same. i don't buy all that stuff. so, those are questions you should ask donald trump. >> all right. joining me now is msnbc's steve kornacki. steve, interesting delving into the 90 minutes. many saying it's going off the rails and one thing to do so with ben carson. another thing to do with zoo with hillary clinton. but when you also bring in the voters and mentioning that as far as the voters of iowa, how stupid are the people of iowa to believe this?
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is that something these voters there, that kind of narrative srks that something to tolerate and is that something they want to hear? >> well, let's ask if they tolerate it after another superpac takes that clip, iowans, how stupid are you? blasts it, blankets it over the air waves with the negative ad and curious how that goes over. the fact this is ben carson i think is key, too. you looked at how he responded to that. totally taking it in stride. not having an emotional reaction to it. not fighting back with fierce language of his own and shrugging and saying, you veal to talk to donald trump about that. that's the difference in terms of donald trump going ap jeb bush. jeb bush an easy target for him. rand paul in a debate. ben carson is something very different in the republican side, something -- he's well liked on the republican side. >> i want to ask you also, when you come and talk about this and many, many times and i asked this earlier, many say, you know
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what? oh, here's donald trump. this may be it. this may be the end for him and consistently time and time again it is not. when's in the psyche as far as the provocation he gets in having a forum there in iowa and then going off for 95 minutes in the manner he did? >> i'm not met physically enough to get in his psyche. >> the campaign. >> what i was thinking while i was watching that last night was, i mean, this is somebody when's saying unhinged. this is something who's disturbed of what he is saying and is lashing out. >> we'll watch more of it. i want to get to chris jansing following the ben carson campaign. asking him earlier, he said this is something that's expected from him. >> reporter: yeah. he said he's not going to get down into the mud with donald trump and this is part of the strategy that they have had from the beginning. when i first started covering the campaign, they told me that the campaign officials, senior
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staffers said two things to focus on. one was showing that he had a level of experience in some of the areas that people had questions about. second was to make him look presidential. have people look at him and see a president. i thought it was fascinating looking at the news numbers that have been out there lately, the question was asked, do you see yourself backing ben carson? from march to july, 41% said they could. just 41%. now september and october, that is up to 75% of republican voters could see themselves backing carson. that's a kind of trajectory that i think even the campaign didn't imagine so they want to keep on that level. they think that what he is doing is working. and they don't see that responding to donald trump helps them at all. i'll also tell you there's a big event here at bob jones university. i talked to people. it was a big range of a crowd from college students as you would expect all the way through the age ranges and one of the
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things they like best about ben carson is they think he's measured, thoughtful, intelligent and some people have even said to me, he's not donald trump. so, they're looking for somebody whether's outside the mainstream but who is a lot more measured in their response and this works for them tie overall demeanor, as well. steve and chris, to both of you, thank you very much. now, with a tonight go ahead and listen to the parting question of donald trump's rally in iowa where he ramped up those attacks on his opponents. >> rubio, bad on immigration. bad on a lot of things. i'm not going to say too young. who knows? i think i could have done a good job when i was his age. people say, oh, i think he's too young. i don't know that he's too young. he will not be an inspiring president. and he's not tough enough to be a president. he's not tough enough. and i will not call him a
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lightweight because i think that's a derogatory term so i will not call him a lightweight s. that okay with you people? i refuse to say that he's lightweight. okay. now, bush i said he was a low energy individual. and it killed his campaign. who ever heard of that? people said, you know, he's right. we don't have to talk about bush because it looks like he's out. right? we only want to talk about the ones that are -- cruz, it's hard for me to say bad things about him. he says i'm amazing so i'll save that for when he gets nasty. he will have to. right? but he's been very nice to me. he's been nice. i like hem. but he's been nice and he won't be probably. if it's the two of us he won't be nice and then we can do what i like to do best. okay? right now we'll leave him alone. carson is an enigma to me. >> boring.
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>> i didn't say it! carson's an enigma. he wrote a book. and he's doing great in iowa. he's second in the polls. with all these professional politicians, i'm first, carson's second. and i don't understand it. i really don't understand it. because he wrote a book and in the book he said terrible things about himself. he said that he's pathological and that he's got basically pathological disease. now, he wrote this i guess before he was running for office or thought that he was running for office. and i don't want a person with pathological disease. i don't want it. now, i'm not saying he's got it. he said it. this isn't something i'm saying he's a pathological liar or -- i'm not saying it! he said he's got pathological disease. he actually said pathological
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temper and then he defined it as disease. so he had has pathological disease. now, if you're pathological, there's no cure for that, folks. okay? there's no cure for that. and i did one of the shows today. and i don't want to say what i said but i'll tell you anyway. i said that if you're a child molester, a sick puppy, there's no cure for that. there's only one cure. we don't want to talk about that cure. that's the ultimate cure. no, there's two. there's death and the other thing. but if you're a child molester, there's no cure. they can't stop you. pathological, there's no cure. now, he said he was pathological. okay. he said he went after his mother
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with a hammer. he wanted to hit her on the head. or he hit her on the head or he wanted to hit her on the head. and i said, wow. that's tough. man. did anybody in this audience ever go after your mother to hit her on the head with a hammer? okay? so he went after his mother. this is in his book. this isn't me! i'm just trying to save you the cost of a book. so he's a pathological, damaged, temper, a problem. then they talk about my tone is a little bit tough. give me a break. bush. we have people whose heads are being cut off in syria and he doesn't like me tone. we need somebody with tone. we need somebody with tone. [ applause ]
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you can go back to the other guys later but let's straighten it out. okay? we'll go back to the guys with the nice easy tone like bush and rubio and the characters but you need somebody with tone. hillary said the same thing. i didn't like the way mr. trump spoke last night. his tone wasn't nice. let's not worry about it. i promise i'll leave you alone and then go back and blow it all for the next 20 years and get somebody else like me and straighten it out again. but go back to carson. so he went after his mother, went after his mother. think of this. he went after his mother with a hammer! at a fairly young age. 14, 15 years old. i didn't. i didn't. okay. he hits a friend of his in the face with a padlock! like a masters padlock.
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qwah! in the face, with a padlock. a lot of damage. okay. i never did that. i mean, i misbehaved. i spoke during class. they said don't you dare talk. yes, sir. but no padlocks in the face to friends. here's the beauty of all. he took a knife and he went after a friend and he lunged! he lunged that knife into the stomach of his friends! but lo and behold it hit the belt! it hit the belt. and the knife broke. give me a break. give me a break. give me a break. the knife broke. let me tell you. i'm pretty good at this stuff so -- i have a belt. somebody hits me with the -- it
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moves this way. it moves this way. it moves that way. he hit the belt buckle. anybody -- anybody have a knife? you want to try it on me? believe me. it ain't going to work. you're going to be successful. but he took the knife, he went like this. he plunged it into the belt! and amazingly the belt stayed totally flat and the knife broke. how stupid are the people of iowa? how stupid are the people of the country to believe this crap? so here's the good news. he's now saying all of that stuff happened. because otherwise he's a liar. and i said, no, wait a minute. it should be the other way. it didn't happen. the press made it up. those guys. they made it up. no, no, no, no. it happened. how dare the press not believe
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me that i went after my mother with a hammer. that i hit somebody in the face with a padlock! that i tried to stab a friend of mine whose name was bob but now it's changed. whose name was bob, he was a friend but now he's a member of my family. who i have a brother, don't speak to him. i don't want you to talk to my brother. so he's trying to convince everybody that these things happened, again, i'm a religious person. i'm going to protect people. i'm going to bring back people because say what you want about christianity. as a group we haven't done a good job in protecting our religion. we really haven't. we have let government take it away. we have let government take it away. pastor jeffers, he's a nice guy. he's on television the other night and asking him about
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trump. he's a christian, a good guy. not a typical christian but you know sometimes we sort of do a little sacrifice because he's an unbelievable leader and really smart and going to protect us. and maybe that's better than having a perfect christian that doesn't have leadership ability which is, you know, going to happen. that doesn't have certain other qualities because we need somebody to be a leader and protect us now. i'm going to protect everybody. i know how to do it. i'm a work -- i know how to do it. i really know how to do it. so, here's the thing. so carson, pow, oh, the knife broke. laying there in the -- oh. so what he's saying is that these series of events and he goes into the bathroom for a couple of hours and comes out and now he's religious. and the people of iowa believe him. give me a break. give me a break. it doesn't happen that way.
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it country happen that way. and some people might not like it. oh, that's not really nice what you say. don't be fools. don't be fools. okay? >> when we come back, more of donald trump's fiery rally last night in fort dodge and as you watch weigh in on our bing pulse question. did donald trump's comments go too far? go to pulse.msnbc.com to cast your vote. e me, and you're talking to your rheumatologist about a biologic... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira giving me new perspective. doctors have been prescribing humira for ten years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,
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don't let your neighbor enjoy all the savings. take the free home energy checkup. honey, we need a new refrigerator. visit pge.com/checkup and get started today. we have been playing here on msnbc a large portion of donald trump's rant last night in iowa. it is the big political story. a lot of people are talking about today. especially due to his pointed attacks on dr. ben carson. here's more from donald trump on dr. carson. >> now they're saying it wasn't him.
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i don't know. maybe this was a false report. but it wasn't him that hit with a hammer. it was his mother came at him all of a sudden. don't forget name changes. everything changed. and i don't care. you may -- i may leave here and say that was not nice what he says. who cares? then i go back to my life. i don't have to do interviews. which i don't like doing, to be honest with you. i can leave this scum back here, the press back here, leave them alone anymore. they're garbage. they're scum. i don't have to deal with them anymore. but here's the guy who's saying, think of it. you have to think of it. how crazy it is. he's demanding that it's right that he went after the mother and wanted to hit her over the head with the hammer and the other events and the knife. because if he didn't he won't have credibility. and i said, well, wait a minute. i put out a tweet the other day at real donald trump. very hot. millions of people.
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but i went oput a tweet. i would rather he didn't go after her. so i say what the hell have we come to? what have we come to? when we have to believe this kind of stuff and we're going to put somebody in office who considers himself to have pathological disease. read the definition in the dictionary of pathological disease. and i'm not saying it. he said it about himself before he knew he was going to run for office. and then he's controlled by a superpac in iowa. and the head guy at the superpac, i hear left, and nobody writes about it. i mean, the truth is he's complaining about the press not treating him well. okay? let me tell you something. if i did the stuff that he said he did i wouldn't be here right now. it would have been over. it would have been over.
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okay? it would have been totally over. so, that's who is in second place. and i don't get it. i don't get it. on top of which he's never had an employee. i put ten -- i put thousands of jobs -- many, many -- thousands. tens of thousands of jobs. over my career. tens of thousands. thousands of people working for -- i know jobs. i say, i will be the greatest jobs president that god ever created. i will. and i'll tell you another thing. i believe, i believe -- two other things people are surprised at. i'll be the best of the military we have had in many, many, many years in this country. i believe i'll be better at the military than at the jobs.
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and i will be a great unifier. people say you're polarizing. i'm not. when we start winning, this country will come together. this country is total polarized right now. you look at what's going on with colleges. you look at what's going on in baltimore and st. louis. this country is a mess. we're totally polarized right now. this country needs a cheerleader. we need somebody that can promote our country as being great again. we need it. we need it badly. we need it fast. because we're going in the wrong direction. so, i only tell you this -- i love iowa. i have been here so many times now. i think i'm going to buy a farm and maybe just move here. i like it. no. i might. i love it. i love it! but i can only promise you this. that if i win, and if i become your president -- all right. well, you know, that always
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happens. they say when, when, when. i have to say if. i'm running against a lot of people. but -- and i'll say when just to make you happy. when. but the truth it has to be if. look. there's always -- who knows what happens? but if and when i win i will make our country so great, so strong, so wonderful, people from the democrat side, people from the republican side, from the conservative side, from the liberal side. >> they'll be happy. they'll be brought together. because we'll have money to save social security. we'll have money to save medicare. carson wants to get rid of medicare. he wanted to abolish medicare. i said that's the end of his campaign. medicare works. other than the fraud and the abuse, i mean, we have to stop the fraud, abuse, et cetera. but medicare actually works. right? i mean, do we agree?
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he wants to end medicare. you can't end medicare. so, when and if -- when i win, you will be so proud of your country. and you're going to remember this night. this is a special night. this is funny. this is a night -- i've really enjoyed being with you. it's sad in many ways because we are talking about so many negative topics. but in certain ways, it's beautiful. it's beautiful. because we're going to turn this country around and we're going to make it not great. we're going to make it greater than it's ever been before. we can do that. okay? we can do that. make it greater than it's ever been before. and i love you all. and i thank you very much. and we will be back. thank you all. thank you very much. thank you. great people. thank you, everybody. >> you've been watching a large portion of donald trump's in
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iowa last night, blistering remarks. the majority of it targeting dr. ben carson. when we come back, we'll have a panel to discuss that and more on what donald trump had to say. also following breaking news out of the supreme court right now with a challenge to some limits placed on abortion clinics and doctors in texas. we're following that closely and bring it to you. rrival is... whoa! toenail fungus!? fight it! with jublia. jublia is a prescription medicine used to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. are you getting this?! most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application site redness, itching, swelling, burning or stinging, blisters, and pain. oh, epic moves, big j! fight it! getting ready for your close-up? ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. visit our website for savings on larger size. watching fis great...ether ...but i think women would agree... ...huddling with their man after the game is nice too. the thing is,
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from the zmort and what's the recent history on this? >> this is a challenge to perhaps the toughest abortion restriction now in the country. this is the law that was passed with great fanfare. you may recall in texas, two years ago, it was hb2 and imposes two restrictions on abortion clinics in texas. they must all meet the standards of ambulatory care, surgical centers and the doctors that perform brpgss must have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals. as a result of the passage of the law, the number of open abortion clinics in texas has gone from about 40 down to just under 20. and women's groups in the state say if the supreme court up holds the law the number of clinics in the second largest state in the country would go down to just nine. but the importance of this case goes well beyond texas, brian, because this is become something that other states want to emulate either of these two restrictions are now -- have been passed by about a dozen
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other states. about half of those are on hold because of court challenges but if the supreme court up holds what texas did, you can be sure other states will try to do the same. conversely, if the supreme court says texas went too far, the efforts in the other states will have to stop. what's interesting about these restrictions, brian, is in the past states have been pretty straightforward about restricting access by saying, for example, you have to get parental notification or spousal notification or a delay and wait for an abortion. this is a back door approach. not explicitly saying that the states want to restrict abortion but imposing conditions on clinics that the women's groups say makes impossible to stay open for many of them and the sponsors of the law says it's to prosuspect women's health. >> when was the last considered landmark in the post-roe v. wade era, the last that the court decided on, on this issue, and how has the ideological makeup
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of the court changed since then? >> on the two points, the enduring ruling from the supreme court comes from the casey versus pennsylvania decision in which the supreme court said the states cannot impose an undue burden on the right of access to abortion. that's the issue here. the two lower courts, the lower court that looked at this, the court of appeals for the 5th circuit said, you know what? if a state comes up with what looks like a rational reason for these limitations, that's as far as we can go. we can't really look behind the curtain about what their motives were. the women's groups going to the supreme court say that can't be the answer that you have to look at whether these have a medical necessity. and the women's groups challenging the texas law say, for example, that the american medical association has say that the laws have no medical benefit, that they'll simply make it harder to get health care. the ideological makeup of the
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court changed since the big decisions for one big reason. the retirement of sandra day o'connor and said in the confirmation she was skeptical about the abortion right became one of those ruling in favor of some of the these subsequent abortion decisions and replaced by the much more conservative samuel alito. that's the difference. >> pete, stand by there. we want to bring in a friend and colleague of ours, tom goldstein of the scotus. the court agreeing to take the case in a election season. tell me your thoughts. >> i do think that this is going to be a bellweather just as pete says for other states thinking about not just these restrictions but a back door model and looking at justice kennedy. he is now the ideological center of the court after sandra day o'connor left and he in the last
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major abortion decision was really ten years ago signaled that he was concerned access to abortion and signaled that additional restrictions would be okay and that gave some of the momentum to the law that is are up there right now. but i think that pro-choice courses take solace in the fact that the supreme court put the law on hold. it stepped in and after the court of appeals had upheld it as pete explained and by doing that, they i think showed their hand to some expent and the justices are going to look behind the curtain and see whether they do believe this law which they'll treat as an abortion restriction is an undue burden on a women's right to choose and the very fact that it's the, you know, the strongest restriction in the country probably points in that direction. >> so, pete, what they're applying is by another phrase the casey standard? >> enduring the test for all
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subsequent abortion restrictions, whether it's an undue burden on the right of access to abortion. the women's rights groups say it is and just look at the affects of the law. it's reduced the number of available abortion clinics. in parts of texas there aren't any. that can't be right. and they also say that just look at the fact there's no -- they argue no medical necessity. a lot of abortion clinics, for example, provide medication abortions giving two pills, when's the logic of having a place and two pills are handed out to be billed to the standards of an ambulatory surgical care center or the doctor with admission privileges and the other problem is in some states hospitals are reluctant to give doctors admission privileges for two reasons. they don't want doctors in their hospitals who perform abortions and secondly some hospitals say you can't get admission privileges unless you have a certain number of patient that
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is you take to the hospital and the women's groups say most abortion doctors can't meet that standard and it's a catch-22 for them. >> you're not a pollster but where does public opinion stand with a snapshot right now in 2015 on the notion of freedom of choice and how have those numbers migrated over the years? >> i haven't looked at those numbers for a while and it's been a while and i can't remember them and i don't want to guess about it. a good question. i'll look it up. but it does, you know, the court is certainly aware of the political background in which this case comes to the court. the states have been trying to find some way and we should put all the cards on the table here. this is not a direct challenge to the fundamental right of aing sesz to abortion, to roe v. wade. there are states trying to come up with ways to do that. there's been a series of state that is have tried to move up the deadline for when you can
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legally perform an abortion. roe versus wade said that the test is basically viability. states have been moving that up on the argument that a fetus can feel pain or there's a detectable fetal heart beat. that's another kind of group of challenges to abortion that more fundamentally come at roe v. wade. this is sort of a side approach. doesn't directly attack the theory that women should have an access to an abortion and just in the view of many women's groups makes it hard tore do it. >> erin carmone with us, co-author of "the life and times of ruth bader ginsburg" and followed reproductive rights and this case. how do you greet this news? >> 5.4 million women of reproductive age in texas and immediately affected by the court to take up this case but it's actually not just texas. the court was also considering
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taking up a challenge out of mississippi to shut down the last clin nick that case. what they decide in texas is also going to affect all of the states nearby. you know? wisconsin has passed a similar law to the one being considered in texas. alabama, kansas, oklahoma. so pete is obviously correct. this is not a direct assault at roe v. wade but what anti-abortion groups hab doing is they know that justice kennedy is not ready to get rid of roe v. wade wholesale but looking at it incrementally attacking access to abortion and pretty simple. if there are no clinics fleft a state or only ten where there were once more than 40 it's hard to get an abortion unless you can drive for hundreds of miles. an issue the court is going to be considering and justice kennedy in particular is, is it an undue burden if a woman has to drive additional 250 miles each way in order to order an abortion? if abortion is a constitutional
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right, a fundamental right for a woman to access, can the state place the kinds of burdens and how closely should courts look at the laws? should they look at what the medical evidence says? should they weigh different experts and decide the american medical association opposes this law. the american college of obs trirns and gynecologists oppose this? and they'll have impact for the way federal courts evaluate all abortion laws. >> so, pete, for those that don't follow the supreme court regularly or all things constitutional law, the court will take this case out of texas. >> yes. >> its ruling will end up affecting a number of if not all of the states erin just talked about? >> right. the question is the constitutionality of the texas law. this isn't just applying a
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statute. this is deciding whether texas law is constitutional and that the court says it is, other states can do something similar. if the court says it's not constitutional, other states can't. let's show you. you asked earlier, what did the supreme court say? if we can go back to the full shot here, i'll show you the very short orders list from the court. this is it. this is all we get when the supreme court decides to take a case. it just says, latin scholar you are, it means the court will take the case. this is the name of the case. whole women's case and others versus cole and then it just says the petition is granted. that's supreme court speak for we'll take the case. you were talking about this mississippi case. here's an odd little footnote to all of this. so mississippi did something very similar to what texas did. it had one of the same restrictions. but if that restriction had gone into effect it would have shut down the only abortion clinic in the state in jackson,
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mississippi. the lower court said you can't do that. you can't just shut down the only clinic and the 5th circuit of appeals which upheld the texas law, the decision appealed today, that same court of appeals said, well, we are going to strike down, we'll put on hold the mississippi law because a state cannot transfer its constitutional burden to another state. the constitutional burden here being the right of access to abortion. so you have the 5th circuit going both ways here and the main event is the texas law appealed to the supreme court. that's the case the court will hear and by the way, brian, we don't know exactly when the court will hear this. they haven't told us that yet. there are openings on the calendar in late february and either late february or the middle of march when they hear this case. with the decision by late june that will one way or the other inject possibly abortion into the presidential campaign. >> and, pete, that was my next and final question before we toss back to frances rivera.
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so they hear it in winter or spring. and by necessity, the end of the term comes generally late in the month of june when all the decisions come out. >> right. and as long as we're talking supreme court, brian, we must also say that in the next week or so perhaps as early as next week the obama administration is going to appeal that immigration case which also comes from texas on the president's immigration policy that would allow up to 5 million people to stay here in the country. the obama administration is hoping it can get that before the supreme court, too. also coming out in late june. >> the headline at this hour, 2:41 p.m. eastern time, the supreme court of the united states is going to take on one of the more notable abortion cases in recent years. a case out of texas, of course, its decision will have ramifications nationwide. our thanks for now for contributing the coverage to
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pete williams, erin carmone and tom goldstein. the coverage will continue with frances on msnbc. >> certainly interesting to hear the public debate, as well, brian, with those saying that those restrictions needed to protect women's health and providers saying it was unnecessary putting them out of business and the women's groups saying simply this is taking away their chance, their opportunities and right for an abortion. thank you very much. we appreciate it. want to bring you more on that rant. 95 minutes by donald trump we have been showing you, portions of. large portions of in our past hour. and talk about it, specifically the blistering attacks against dr. ben carson in comparing what donald trump calls his self-proclaimed pathological temper to diseases like a child molester. want to bring in our panel. robert trainum, also phillip rucker, "the washington post" political reporter, and politico's ben white joining us
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from des moines, iowa, he was at trump's rally last night. ben, i want to start with you. especially that atmosphere last night. not sure enthused people were in the start of the 95 minutes and then the attacks on ben carson and to the voters in iowa and the american public itself. how did they react? and how's that speech playing there today? >> well, they reacted with some confusion i think towards the end of the rant. they started out enthusiastic like trump crowds always do and i think he lost them with the rant on the carson doing the belt buckle thing about being stabbed, when he did the child molestation stuff and head shaking, whispering. what is he talking about? and the problem is people in the crowd like ben carson a lot. if they're not carson supporters, they're close to being that. undecided. i talked the people unlike the event like trump and not sold on
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him. i don't know if it brings those people in. it was uncomfortable towards the end. some applause and a lot of people sitting on their hands thinking what is this guy talking about? >> it couldn't have helped today. if this is how you feel about it, given the instagram post trump put out there with the friday the 13th theme song to the carson clip. robert, let's listen to what he said. >> i'm hopeful that maybe his advisers will help him to understand the word pathological and recognize that that does not denote incurable. >> all right. donald trump has attacked a lot of people out there, a lot of rivals usually in a mocking tone but this one feels a lot more personal. why is that? >> well, i think you are going to have to ask donald trump
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that. look. i think here's the fallacy of this. this is a man spending 95 minutes on a monologue with a conversation with himself about being pathological and about questioning the intelligence of iowa voters and is 0 forth. not once did you hear one single thread of a conversation about what he's going to do about the economy, what he's doing about saving social security. when about medicare? what about keystone pipeline and so forth? these are critical issues that the american people want answers to and i just question why we're having this conversation about donald trump. >> do you think that's the reason he's bringing it up to dodge those issues? and we're talking about this instead. >> absolutely. absolutely. because i think if you asked donald trump a substantive question and then a follow-up question, he can't answer it. i would challenge all of us to start asking him the hard questions and holding him accountable because we are talking about the presidency of the united states here. i mean, after all, we are talking about who we're going to choose to sit in that oval office.
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and so, you know, with all due respect, i think this is a question for us to ask ourselves is whether or not we sit here and allow donald trump to continue to offend all of us. >> phillip to you, "the washington post" article and a headline, time for gop panic? a worry trump or carson might win. what are they saying behind a closed door? what are we going to do with our party and the gop? is there the sense of panic, especially when it comes to the back and forth with, you know, donald trump and ben carson? >> there's anxiety at this point. not quite panic but a lot of concern. that's a feeling trump and carson are outsiders who have essentially hijacked the nominating process at this point. they have huge leads. they have been dominant. they're durable in the polls. we'll have to see if the latest iowa incident last night will depress some of trump support and i'm not convinced it will. but there's a real disagreement
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and discussion within the republican party about how to effectively prosecute the case against these people and sort of arrive at a more mainstream consensus pick as an alternative, perhaps rubio or bush or one of the other governors in the race. >> you say normal times forward would be obvious. if somebody was able to do significant damage to them, no telling who the supporters would turn kind of pointing to the troubles of the party and the candidates. now, ben, carson tells katie couric if the media promises to not bother the people in the personal stories that trump is questioning he'll reveal the truth. you have the trump critiques aside. does dr. ben carson have a problem on this issue, especially when we're seeing in the different scenarios piling up in a list? >> yeah. yeah. he does have a problem with it. i mean, i have talked to a number of iowa voters about ben carson over the last couple of days, both at the trump rally and elsewhere.
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they're worried about this stuff. none of it individually is going to knock him off but it's taking some of the wind out of his sails a little bit. i wanted to go back to robert's point for a second on asking questions of donald trump. one of the big things i noticed about that rally, it was intended to allow the people to ask donald trump questions. it was billed as that. and then he walked off the stage without taking any questions and remarkable. the aides were ready to give the mics to people. and they didn't get that. in terms of carson, the other thing i hear is he didn't do himself any favors in the debate on economic questions and no good questions about wall street reform and he lost some people who want to see somebody who understands the economy, federal budget, how to get the economy going. i think that's as big a problem as his, you know, inaccuracies in the book. >> we'll see if they cover that this evening, both of them. taking an hour on stage after each other at the sunshine summit in orlando. trump at 5:00 p.m.
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carson at 6:00. you will be watching and probably talking about it tomorrow and the days to come. good to see you. thank you very much. >> take care. >> thank you. still ahead, breaking news, u.s. military working to confirm the death of jihadi john. what his death could mean. r bag. suddenly the police are there. when you call the insurance company, they want to know everything... how fast were you going? were there any witnesses? how much damage was done? the only thing they don't ask is, are you okay? at liberty mutual, we never forget that policies are about people. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ everything kids touch during cold and flu season sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox.
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breaking news now. the united states military working to confirm the death of the isis hostage taker known as jihadi john. the pentagon believed the masked murderer known as mohammed emwazi killed overnight, targeted by a u.s. drone in syria. a spokesperson for "operation inherent resolve" said this earlier about con fir mission. >> we are reasonably certain that we killed the target that we intended to kill which is jihadi john. it takes some time as it always does for us to be declare we
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know that we have had success. >> meanwhile, last hour, the white house gave its first comments on the strike. >> i think it is clear evidence that we are making important progress in one element of our strategy which is to apply pressure to the isil leadership. and to capitalize on available intelligence to advance our goals. >> joining me from connecticut is congressman jim heinz, a member of the house select committee on intelligence. we appreciate your time being with us here. i want to ask you about the pentagon talking about jihadi john and the value being more of a celebrity versus a role of tactical, coming the operations and strategy with isis. with what you know, how significant is emwazi's death and the fight against isis? >> well, it's symbolically significant and the grand sort
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of strategic realm of things it doesn't really make that much of a difference. here's a guy distinguished by the fact he spoke english, british. he and his abhorrent acts caught the attention of the world and while the evidence is not all in, it looks like we got him. that's valuable. valuable in the sense that maybe, just maybe, people who are in europe or in the united states thinking about going to syria to fight with the jihadis and a problem maybe this causes them to sit up and think twice about doing that. but look, for years now we're taking terrorist leaders off the battlefield and most notingly osama bin laden himself and this keeps them on the heels and not focused on attacks us and it doesn't end the were. >> this is interesting the way it's put by former ambassador to iraq and syria ryan crocker telling andrea mitchell this. >> i'm not sure i want to bet
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the empire state building that they're not that get of a threat to the homeland. >> okay. they aren't that get of a threat to the homeland. your take on that in knowing that many may see the death if it's confirmed as a sense of martyrdom and may surge people in wanting to join isis and their mission. >> yeah. separate questions. look, i think this if in fact we did get him, that's symbolically important showing if we want to go after somebody, if we want to go after a leader or somebody high profile by jihadi john was, our technological capabilities allow us to do that. look, with respect to the threat that these people pose, you know, that's a -- at the end of the day, that's an unknowable question and a way to make sure that they don't start doing the very complicated things you need to do to execute an attack on our homeland is spend most of the day worried about personal
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security and doesn't mean doing that successfully we are 100% safe. we are not. it appears, for example, as we saw horribly last week and it didn't take them a listening time to plan an attack on a russian jetliner and not think of ourselves as exempt to seek a high-profile attack like that on us. >> all right. congressman jim himes from connecticut, thank you for your time. >> thank you. that wraps up things for today's show. we'll be back here on monday at 1:00 p.m. eastern time. keep the conversation going on social media. kate snow picks up the coverage next here.
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can a a subconscious. mind? a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? i'm kate snow. we are going to pick up frances' coverage of the supreme court. as you know, they have agreed to hear an abortion case. i want to get to nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. he covers the supreme court for us. pete, the significance here? >> well, i think this is easily
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the most important abortion case in 25 years no matter how the case is ultimately decided by the supreme court. this is a challenge to what is arguably the tightest restriction on abortion in the country. a law passed in texas two years ago that imposes two requirements. first of all, it says any doctor performing an abortion in the state has to have admitting privileges at a hospital and all clinics must meet the standards of ambulatory surgical centers. as a result of the law, the number of abortion clinics open in texas is more than cult in half and the advocates of women's rights say if the law is upheld by the supreme court that number of open clinics in texas, second largest state in the union could go to nine. they say the law is a restriction, an unconstitutional restriction on the right of abortion. the sponsors of the law say it's intended to protect women's health. so the court will hear this case, probably in late february

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