tv MSNBC Live With Kate Snow MSNBC November 13, 2015 12:00pm-2:01pm PST
the most important abortion case in 25 years no matter how the case is ultimately decided by the supreme court. this is a challenge to what is arguably the tightest restriction on abortion in the country. a law passed in texas two years ago that imposes two requirements. first of all, it says any doctor performing an abortion in the state has to have admitting privileges at a hospital and all clinics must meet the standards of ambulatory surgical centers. as a result of the law, the number of abortion clinics open in texas is more than cult in half and the advocates of women's rights say if the law is upheld by the supreme court that number of open clinics in texas, second largest state in the union could go to nine. they say the law is a restriction, an unconstitutional restriction on the right of abortion. the sponsors of the law say it's intended to protect women's health. so the court will hear this case, probably in late february or early march i'm guessing,
kate, with a decision by late june. but it will be a constitutional challenge to the law. so the effect of it makes a difference to other states considering something similar. about a dozen states already imposed or tried to impose restrictions like texas. about of them on hold. >> this is far beyond the state of texas. >> easily. >> okay. pete williams reporting for us. thank you so much, pete. i want to bring in now tom goldstein from the scotus blog and tracks actions of the supreme court. are you there? >> i am. >> tell us your reaction first of all to the court taking this on. >> the supreme court signaled to step in because it actually put the law on hold. it was a divisive question in the supreme court and when the court of appeals refused to stop the law from taking effect, the justices did. and also, it really is about time for them to clarify the law
because we haven't had a major decision since the ideological shift on the law happening with abortion and justice o'connor in the center and in the end an advocate for at least modest abortion rights retired. so now we have the test of a more conservative supreme court, the center vote being justice kennedy and whether it is that they will in essence the decision in roe versus wade undercut significantly. as pete once described it, this is a back door way to restrict abortion. it's advocated in medical terms but others hope it's almost impossible to have an abortion with them and a major challenge to the basic right. >> give us context about how the court shifted for those of us who don't follow the sbi ka sys of the supreme court. give us a history. when did that happen and where do we find ourselves in terms of
the justices now? >> of course. well, the original abortion right is recognized roughly four decades ago in roe versus wade and then as the supreme court got more conservative under republican presidents and their appointments, it became apparent that the supreme court might overrule it altogether and there's planned parenthood versus casey out of the state of pennsylvania where the supreme court narrowed but reaffirmed that abortion right. most recently, ten years ago, justice kennedy with the court considered a law that restricted so-called partial birth abortion and wrote an opinion that seemed to signal states were welcome to adopt additional -- where we're right is a period of questioning. we don't know exactly what it is that justice kennedy, that center vote, feels when it comes to abortion rights right now and i think it's safe to predict that his is really the only vote
in play. there are four more solidly conservative justices and might vote to overrule roe versus wade and others that would go well out of the way to protect it and he justice kennedy is the question mark. >> all right. tom, thanks so much for being with us. i want to bring in erin carmone. she's done a lot of work on women's reproductive health, a best-selling book out right now on ruth bader ginsburg on the supreme court. your reaction when you hear they're taking this up. this is a first time in a long time the court is even approached the issue of abortion. >> this is a very big deal. for years advocates of abortion rights avoiding the supreme court since the 2000 case that tom mentioned because they were spooked by the fact that justice kennedy upheld the federal ban on so-called partial birth abortion. now the situation in the states so dire for access to abortion they're left with little choice
but to ask the supreme court to step in. what the court of appeals did looking at the texas abortion law allowing it to go into effect arguably had no precedent. they basically said whatever a state says to justify it, if it could be rational, that's okay. previously the supreme court has actually held restrictions on abortion to a higher standard so when's happening here is that the texas law is the only one that's gone into effect so far of these kinds of laws. the immediate impact has been that before this law which you may remember from wendy davis' filibuster of it, signed into law by rick perry in 2013 over that filibuster. after it went into effect, the number of clinics in texas went from about 46 to current day 20 because the first part of the law, the admitting privileges, went into effect. now what the supreme court blocked is the further requirement to leave only ten in a state of 5.4 million people of reproductive age. >> because they're taking this up, that effectively doesn't
happen right now? >> they blocked it while they were waiting for the appeal to come to them so when tom mentioned that there was a signal that they were going to take it and it was predictable, the fact they were appealing the 5th circuit, they asked for an emergency order from the supreme court. so the nine surgical centers in texas that comply with all of the law continue to stay open and also a tenth clinic in texas, there's focus on the women on the texas-mexico border in the rio grande valley and will the rights be unduly burdened driving 500 miles for an abortion clinic. >> i want to make sure we all understand the geography and the state of things in texas right now. how many clinics are there operationally and who is most affected by what's happening in texas? >> well, right now i believe there are 19 or 20. there's a flux over who has admitting privileges. nine or ten dpengd on the
supreme court. the real question is the standard set in planned parenthood versus casey 1992, a woman has a constitutional right to an abortion. the state could place restrictions on it. but they can't place an undue burden on a woman. in practice, when's an undue burden? that's been what judges have really differed on and the judges have to say what that is. >> that's what the supreme court is taking up right now? >> yes. >> erin, thanks so much for being with us. appreciate it. joining us on the phone now, elise hoge, president of naral pro-choice america, a group that advocates for abortion rights. hi. are you there? >> i am, erin. >> elise, tell me your reaction to it being taken up for just the fact that the supreme court is delving into this. >> we don't like the case in the
first place born out of a crisis of women being able to access health care and their constitutional rights, quite honestly. the fact it exists and our mind is a really good thing. we have got to actually sound the alarm about what's happening in this country, you know, these laws are nothing but as we call them back doors to the back all alley, right? anti-choice movement has coopted the language of women's health and this is an ideological and political design since they haven't been able to overturn row to legislate clinics out of existence. we are glad that the court is going to give it the visibility that's required to honestly have a public conversation about it. and just to put a finer point on the stats that erin was putting out in terms of clinic closures, what drives it home and just so you know i'm from texas, so i've been down there lately and it is really a crisis down there is if i pick up the phone, if i find
out i'm pregnant, i want to terminate my pregnancy, i call a clinic in houston. the wait time for me to get an appointment because the clinics are so overloaded because of demand is 23 days. >> 23 days. >> just to gate appointment. >> what is your analysis of where the court could end up on this? do you think you -- your side of the argument has a good chance? >> you know, i hesitate to read the tea leaves when it comes to the court. what i'll say is that i think, you know, the court's prior decisions and the law's pretty clear on this. i think that, you know, 7 in 10 americans support legal access to abortion and very good reasons for that. it's because we do as a country value freedom, justice and we believe that women's decisions around their own bodies and own lives and their family is core
to those values that we as americans hold dear so that's why i say we are -- we are glad to be finally having this conversation at a scale it needs to be had at just like tom told you when you asked. this is not really about texas. i know how easy to write off texas. there are actually 44 states with some kind of these laws on the books although far fewer decided by this case. but if this goes the wrong way, anti-choice politicians will see it as open season on abortion access and, you know, that's a history that we still remember. we've been there and this country doesn't want to go back. >> elise hoge, thank you for your perspective. we want to mention we're also reaching out to anti-abortion rights advocates and bring it to you as soon as we get it. turning the other big breaking news this hour. the u.s. military calling it a significant blow to the prestige
of isis. the u.s. is now quote/unquote reasonably certain an overnight air strike in syria killed the isis executioner mohammed emwazi also known as jihadi john. >> still little early but we are reasonably certain that we killed the target that we intended to kill which is jihadi john. it will take some time as it always does to be able to finally formally declare we know that we have had success. >> emwazi was the masked isis executioner believed to be responsible for beheading james foley, steven sat love and others. the pentagon says the strike from a hellfire missile launched by one of three reaper drones taking out the vehicle they say. moments ago james foley's father john spoke to the media.
>> i don't care if it's jihadi john, jihadi sam, jihadi james. he was a low-level operative in that organization. i'm telling you more than i wanted to. it makes absolutely no difference that he's been killed or may have been killed. okay? the were's ongoing. quite honestly, i'm really don't want to talk about it because it glorifies his existence. which facilitates potentially further recruitment. >> that's the father of james foley in rochester, new hampshire. keir simmons joins us now from london. speaking so emotionally there. >> yeah. >> that is person who's
allegedly responsible for multiple, multiple deaths. >> yeah. that's right. and the words of john foley heartfelt and thoughtful and reflect the words of many of the families who have been speaking. the families of the hostages who were so brutally murdered in those videos that you're seeing now. by those videos recorded by jihadi john in that hood holding a knife and then everybody if you didn't see it, you know about it. the way that it then cut to an image of a murdered hostage every time. it's interesting by the way, the white house press secretary josh earnest saying that the families were told prior to the operation that it was going to take place. and that is interesting because it suggests that this was a preplanned operation. what the pentagon has been telling us is that they do believe that it was jihadi john. they can't be absolutely certain but they believe it was because they saw him walk from a
building and get into a car and then as you mentioned one of those drones missiles was fired. it hit the car. their words it was incinerated and why they believe it definitely was in their view almost certainly was in their view jihadi john. >> what do we -- what more do we know about this person? where's he from? what's his background? >> you know, he came from london. he grew up on the streets. became a gang member. his background is quite interesting. a gang member before he was a jihadist and a criminal and more and more involved and then went to syria and then turns up on these chilling horrific videos and it took a while for people to find out who he really was. mohammed emwazi. this, you know, criminal from the streets of london. and it's interesting. in the sense that what it tells you really is that this was a violent person before he got involved in religion and more and more violent person.
that is the kind of person that they're trying to prevent from getting from sir why and what both the british and the americans are saying is that they believe by believing jihadi john perhaps they send a message to others not go there. >> thanks so much. we're going to take a quick break and waiting for more from the white house and president obama meeting with his national security team. we'll bring you that right after the break. siness. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost. now try new boost® compact and 100 calories. [meow mix jingle slowly anright on cue.cks] [cat meows] ♪meow, meow, meow, meow... it's more than just a meal,
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so we mentioned this before the break. we mentioned before the break right now president obama's scheduled to be meeting with former national security leaders at the white house. nbc news correspondent ron allen outside on the north lawn. when's he meeting with right now and will isis and today's news of jihadi john come up? >> reporter: it's a distinguished group, baker, sko
kroft, kissinger even. former secretaries of state and national security experts supporting the transpacific partnership traed deal pushing now. and yes, i would think that this issue of isis and the fight over there in syria and iraq is certainly coming up in the news today that jihad johnny apparently killed in that air strike. here's some of what josh earnest the white house spokesperson had to say about the significance of that event. >> mr. emwazi was an isil leader. he was a strategist for that organization. and he was intimately involved in the effort by isil to recruit individuals to their cause. >> reporter: that recruitment issue is critical because that's one way that isis has really been trying to bring more members into it. something that the united states and our allies overseas had difficulty combatting. earnest and the pentagon as well
also made that point in recent weeks a number of mid and upper level isis leaders taken out in a similar way to which emwazi was they said. enest and others pointed out to the operation in sinjar in iraq to take the town from isis which is successful they say and how the strategy is working and as you know, kate, widely criticized being ineffective, incremental and not getting the job done. >> ron allen at the white house, thanks so much. joining me now, fellow and contributing editor at "the atlantic" graham wood and politics reporter at defense one, molly o'toole, as well. >> graham, you wrote an article that's gotten attention. a piece about what isis really wants. it's been passed around widely. what is it that they want? are they achieving their goals? >> well, one thing they want to do is to terrify and infur rate.
that's one thing jihadi john used by them to do but beyond that they want to create an islamic state ruled by a caliphate and only place that muslims go to practice their religion and in the business of convincing muslims worldwide they have to go there and serve. >> in that context, graham, today's news of jihadi john plays how? >> well, he was really a symbol of defiance, of survival. he often addressed president obama personally and so to have him dead is really a serious blow to the propaganda of isis and to their public relations. think try to show that they're invincible, not stoppable. and jihadi john was one of the examples of that. now he is no longer with them. >> we don't know for sure. it's not completely confirmed.
the pentagon saying they're reasonably certain he died in this strike. molly, i want to ask you about the strike itself. what do we know about how the defense department might have targeted him and what kind of drone this was that went in there? >> well, as you said, we have the details coming out so far. we know that it was -- they were watching a particular building in raqqa, sort of a defacto capital of the -- sort of an islamic state's headquarters. that he came out of that building with another man or two men came out of the building, rather, went into a car. there was a strike, the car was incinerated and both men were determined to be dead. now, what they haven't 100% confirmed is that one of those men was jihadi john. they're fairly certain at this point. what they'll do from here is sort of listen to chatter, gather intelligence on the ground, but also, listen to chatter over social media, the internet to see what's been said about whether or not he's been killed. they'll use the details to confirm it with more certainty.
>> graham, i want to play something the president said this morning. he was speaking to a reporter at abc. let's play this. >> i don't think they're gaining strength. what is true is that from the start our goal has been first to contain and we have contained them. they have not gained ground in iraq. and in syria, they'll come in, they'll leave. but you don't see this systematic march by isil across the terrain. >> so he says isis is not gaining strength. do you think that's accurate, graham? >> that's certainly true in syria and iraq. we have to remember it's now an organization that has branches in many different parts of the world. in sinai, libya, nigeria, saudi arabia, afghanistan. so it's not just by conquest of territory in syria and iraq it tries to expand. we have to mick sure that we're thinking of it as a kind of a
unified organization to be combatted on many fronts. >> molly, with -- if he has indeed been struck and if jihadi john is gone, can somebody else in that organization pop up and take his place right away? >> that's sort of a cynical take on this. he's potent symbol. particular significance to the american government, also the american public being sort of a voice, the faceless voice behind the beheadings of americans. the argument all along to this significant element of the obama administration's strategy to go after high level ledders of the islamic state in these strikes is that are we playing whack-a-mole. as you take one out, what we have seen is number two, you know, will replace them. take out the number two, the three is number one, become it is number one and what's that gain us tactically in the fight against the islamic state? that's very much up for debate. it puts them on another footing,
leaders who have less experience, who can command -- can't command as much unity, put them in charge for vulnerabilities there but the whack-a-mole question is a real one. >> thanks for being with us on this. i want to turn now from this to the politics of it all. we have been talking about jihadi john. now we are getting a first responses politically speaking from the 2016 candidates on the drone strike targeting him. here's jeb bush just a short time ago speaking in new hampshire. >> he said he's got pathological disease. >> -- bush in new hampshire saying i think it's important to act and it's important for the president to express what his strategy is. this kind of creeping incremental approach that doesn't say what the ultimate objective is, you don't have to show your whole hand but you have to give people evidence that there is a strategy and i think being more engaged is a good thing.
that was jeb bush speaking about isis and our approach. bush's comments came after donald trump laid out his plan to defeat isis last night in iowa. >> some in syria, some in iraq. i would become the [ bleep ] out of them. i would just bomb those suckers. and that's right. i'd blow up the pipes. i'd blow up every single inch. there would be nothing left. >> we're joined by nbc's chris jansing covering the ben carson campaign in greenville, south carolina, but, chris, you have been covering the broad spectrum of all the candidates. on a day like today with big news from overseas, how much is it being talked about? >> reporter: so far, surprisingly little. maybe in part it's not finally confirmed. maybe because they don't see any reason to point to something that the white house might consider a positive. having said that, you quoted jeb
bush what he had to say and we also heard a little while ago from a mike huckabee. here's what he had to say. >> i was delighted to hear today it appears we have gotten jihadi john. i think he's -- from all indications, he's dead. not a moment too soon. but we have to take the fight to the people who want to kill us because there's nothing to negotiate. they don't want a piece of land. they don't a better seat at the united nations. they want to kill every last one of us. >> reporter: so what the democrats will say is what's their specific plan? it's one thing to say we're going to bomb them. but how do you do that? what's the collateral damage? what are the geopolitical implications? we also asked ben carson here on the campus of of bob jones university in greenville, south carolina, about isis. actually, it was at a forum
about 5,000 people turned out at the auditorium here and asked what he would do about isis. again, generalities talking about we have to be aggressive. he said, use every resource, economic, overt, covert, every weapons system to eliminate them first. that's what i would want to do. the question from the democratic side are, when's the specifics of that? what does that mean? but one of the things that jihadi john's story does is it does bring this back into the conversation and will focus i think more on the specifics, something ahead of the last debate the republicans said they wanted to tackle. >> chris, i want to pivot to the other big political headline of the day. if people haven't heard it by now, but trmp last night really going on what some are calling a rant, attacking carson. and here's part of what he said in fort dodge last night, iowa. >> he said he's got pathological disease. he actually said pathological
temper and then he defined it as disease. if you're a child molester, a sick puppy, you're a child molester, there's no cure for that. if you're a child molester, there's no cure. they can't stop you. pathological, there's no cure. now, he said he was pathological. okay. >> so, chris, how's the carson campaign reacting? has the candidate said anything? >> reporter: he has. i asked him about it today before he went into that town hall here at bob jones university. and he is sticking to script. he is refusing as he says to get down in the mud. one of the things his campaign said all along is to continue to have him look presidential. speaking to people in the audience they said a thing they liked best about him, he is measured. that he doesn't get into a fist fight with donald trump. and frankly, they also look at the numbers. one of the things he did was
take on his whole life story which key part of it that made him so popular with the evangelical base about the redemption story and there you have donald trump who attacks it, who questions it. you do wonder about the political strategy of that given the fact that in these early states, south carolina, 65% of voters in 2012 in the primary identified themselves as evangelicals. in 2012, 57% in the caucuses. he takes a risk of doing what he did last night and there is a clear strategy on the part of the carson campaign that they're not going to get into it and will continue to do what they have been doing, clearly been so successful since in the last poll taken in here -- here in south carolina, ben carson is in the lead, kate. >> all right. chris, with ben carson, thank you, chris. and both trump and carson are actually going to be together on the same stage
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so as we memgsed in just a few hours donald trump and ben carson will take the stage back to back at the gop sunshine summit in orlando, florida. already this morning, attend des heard from certain candidates. including rubio and cruz. they've spent 24 hours engaged in a back and forth over immigration as you probably heard. for the latest, turning to hallie jackson in orlando. she is on the phone from ted cruz event. hallie, we have been talking all day about the back and forth between trump and carson. >> reporter: why. >> now they're on stage together. >> reporter: well, together is pushing it. back to back. >> back to back. >> reporter: exactly. i'll tell you having been at the event, we are at a ted cruz rally and not as though there's a ton of space to find some separation so it's interesting to see backstage if maybe they cross paths or run into each
other given the intensity of the attacks that trump has leveled against carson. carson responded today. he dismissed what he call it is gratuitous attacks and hopes candidates stop getting in the mud and doing things that don't matter trying to stay above the fray here after we saw that really sort of wild night from trump last night. here's the plan. he's set to speak later on tonight, kate, an enthen going to -- the plan to hold a media availability and taking questions from the media and a packed room over there. and i would be shocked if trump is not peppered with questions about the remarks last night. >> and so, tell me more about the earlier revents today. rubio and cruz were there. the immigration bat sl fierce between them. did we hear more of that today? >> reporter: we did. not remarks on stage, kate, but they were asked by reporters about it afterwards, of course, at least marco rubio was. rubio again said that he believes he and ted cruz hold similar positions on this and cruz called it laufingly,
blizingly false and he is in the middle of a speech at a church here in orlando talking about the immigration plan and he has rolled out some details in maybe the last half hour, halt any increases in legal immigration as long as american unemployment unacceptably high and suspend h-1-v visas while the program is investigated for reported abuses. interesting to note, he talks about increasing deportation but not the numbers and hope to press him on that speaking to the media in a little bit. >> all right. a long night ahead in orlando, thank you so much. >> reporter: thank you. >> thanks. tomorrow night, three democratic candidates square you have at the second debate in des moines, iowa. down in the polls, bernie sanders signaling that he will be more aggressive perhaps against clinton on the issues of trade, gun control and even her
e-mails. for a preview, we'll joined by alex seitz-wald in des moines, iowa. tell me what to expect on a saturday night out of the democrats. >> reporter: well, i think each of the candidates have different missions to accomplish. for hillary clinton, she is so strong right now. she's proven she can land a punch in the last democratic debate and she can turn in a "b" performance and be okay with that. for sanders, o'malley, they really need to change the status quo. and i think that means we can expect them to be a lot tougher on hillary clinton. the only way up right now in this race is through clinton. sanders gave us a preview of the kinds of issues to attack her on. just a couple of weeks ago here in des moines, ticked off a list of issues transpacific partnership, the keystone pipeline, defense of marriage act and at the place where hillary clinton now is and he was there before her and you can expect him to bring up the
issues, say that he was there before clinton. martin o'malley is kind of running on fumes here. he needs a big breakthrough moment to try to get through. clinton taking that in stride i imagine and focus on the republicans not worried about the democrats. >> all right. alex, thanks so much. still ahead, more demonstrations on the university of missouri campus. also we'll explain why former football star t.j. mohe telling students to, quote, grow up. ♪ is it the insightful strategies and analytical capabilities that make edward jones one of the biggest financial services firms in the country? or is it 13,000 financial advisors who take the time to say thank you? 'night jim. gonna be a while? i am liz got a little writing to do. ♪ it's why edward jones is the big company that doesn't act that way.
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here at msnbc. also more protests today on college campuses and one at the university of missouri. where they held a we're not afraid march this afternoon. but as the demonstrations spreads, some on social media upset over the growing list of resignations left in the wake. a tweet getting attention, this one from former football star t.j. mohe writing dale bringham who i had as a teacher just had to resign for telling the kids to grow up. they rejected the resignation and representative of a sentiment in some circles. t.j. mohe joins us in a moment but let's get background if sarah dallof at the university of missouri. sarah, fill us in on the back story. talking about a professor offering to resign and the stude students' reaction to it.
what are people saying on campus now? >> reporter: well, it's mixed, kate. you have people on both sides of the issue. this all started the night that that terrible threat targeting the school with the shooting saying minority students in particular targeted is posted online. police since arrested the man they believe was responsible for that post. but in that time, there was a lot of fear, a lot of fear here. and a student e-mailed that professor saying he feared hr his safety and not coming to clsz and when he could make up the work. the professor said that the decision was ultimately up to the student but the class and an exam would go on as scheduled and told the student if they canceled class then the bullies would win. that e-mail was posted to social media and the professor was lambasted on social media and the inbox by people saying he was insensitive to the fears of the students, uncaring, racist. the insults grew much more as it
went on. he tendered the resignation and rejected by the university and he is working on campus here today. >> all right. sarah dallof reporting for us from missouri and been for days, thank you so much. let's go to the source now and bring in former university of missouri football player t.j. mohe, he is the one we heard about writing the tweets. good to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> you were a star player on campus. what made you feel the need to stand up for the former professor? >> he is one of the best at the university. and i think i do need to make it clear that i'm not calling people cowards and telling them to grow up because they felt that they were unsafe going to class. i'm talking about how they handled e-mailing that person who gave them an opportunity to take the class that day. he said you don't need to come. there's also been other e-mails, there's a young lady by the name of clare posting an e-mail saying am i able to make it up later? he said, yes, of course you are.
i wanted the make it available to people who have been studying and i feel it's my duty to the university to do so. i don't see how we as adults and we as civil human beings can go after a man like that and consider ourselves grown-ups. >> let me ask you about students who were upset by or inkrecensey the initial e-mail. "the washington post" tweeted my teacher had the nerve to e-mail me if we canceled class we let the bullies win. like this is a game or something. that's actually not the same tweet that -- well, yeah. down there at the bottom of the screen. so do you understand that perspective, t.j., hearing students saying that wasn't the right word choice to say you let the bullies win? >> sure. if you want to call them terrorists, that's fine. for people to be so upset somebody's allowing class to continue, and then go after him
like that, think about the proper channels to do that. you go to a superiors, you say, okay, guys, there's a death threat on campus. i don't feel comfortable going. we have to be allowed to make this up, right? that's what logical people do. people aren't thinking logically but they're thinking emotionally and not how you solve problems. people have to understand that communication is the only way to fix this thing. and if we're just going to yell and scream and not listen to anyone else and be heard, then we're just going to go further down the road and get worse. >> do you think a lot of other students on campus? are you hearing from them who share your feelings? >> i have heard from a lot of people and people disagree with me, too. that's totally fine. i talked about this before. i don't see how disagreeing on things now makes us incapable of loving each other well and incapable of having respect for each other. it's okay to disagree. no one has to agree with what i make but that doesn't make it
invalid opinion and i'm stopping to listen to what people say. i may not agree it still makes their feelings their feelings and that's totally fine. like, i can't tell someone else how to feel. and i don't see why we have to attack each other every time someone disagrees. >> it sounds like you think the climate on campus right now is almost dangerous. >> you know, i haven't been on campus so i can't speak to that but if you read my twitter mentions, they sound dangerous. >> what do people say to you? >> i mean, mostly, just again, not anybody listening. we have a society of headline readers. everybody who thinks this person said this, it doesn't matter what their feelings are or experiences are. it just matters they disagree with me. they're wrong and i hate them. >> t.j. moe from mizzou, appreciate it. >> thank you. a judge reverses a decision.
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now available in new single packs. developing news today on a story we brought you yesterday. the utah juvenile judge at the center of a controversial decision to remove a foster child from the home of a same-sex couple has now reversed that decision today. according to the couple, the judge cited research that he said shows children do better when raised by heterosexual families. both t-- joining me now, adam pertman, author of "adoption nation." i know you had strong feelings about this case to begin with.
i'm sure you're happy to hear that. >> really, relief. because it was such a wrong-headed decision on so many counts. including his citing research, because that doesn't exist. >> is there research on who makes a good home and heterosexual versus homosexual families? >> there's a good bit of research about outcome for children. i've edited a book on that subject and it's like a tom of research, one after the other, after the other. and i can sinopicize it like this, it's all right. we know the research is almost 100% uniform on that. >> that a loving family is a loving family no matter what. >> if it didn't, the research would show it, and it's not there.
>> the new ruling doesn't rule out the possibility that in december when there's another custody hearing scheduled, something could happen again. how difficult is it in utah and in other states for same-sex couples to have foster kids or to adopt? >> well, the fact is, it's easier and easier across the country and that was true even before the marriage ruling. on the ground, and this is really the thrust, the best answer to your question, in my view. child welfare workers in every state, their commitment is to help children live in safe, permanent, loving families. that's what they do for a living. and for a decade, they have increasingly been placing children in lgbt homes. they're not doing it on endanger those children. they're doing it because those kids need families and they know those families are successful. it's happening in utah, it is happening in every state. >> adam, thanks so much for being with us. >> you bet. we'll be right back after a quick break. u.
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on a busy friday afternoon here, former texas state senator wendy davis reacts to breaking news out of the u.s. supreme court, the decision to hear a challenge to a texas abortion law. we'll also be speaking with the president of the national right to life committee p. plus, more on the air strike that defense officials believe eliminated the isis executioner known as jihadi john. and for the first time in months, one of bill cosby's attorneys joins us to speak about his legal battles live. e p ahead of us? well, because their technology is far superior. or because they have someone on the inside. is that right, gil? sir, i would never... he's with them! he's wearing a wire. take off his shirt! take off his shirt! oh! ah! alright, i'm putting you in charge of the holiday party. (vo) get rid of cable and upgrade to directv. call 1-800-directv. at ally bank no branches equals great rates.
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for two reasons. number one, because many other states are waiting to see what the supreme court does about this texas law. it's undoubtedly the toughest law in the nation in terms of abortion restrictions, requiring clinics to meet the same standards as outpatient surgical centers and requiring their doctors to have hospital admitting privileges. the law has already reduced the number of abortion clinics and the opponents of the law say it could leave just nine clinics open in the second largest state. so that's the first reason. the second reason is, it asks the court to define what the rule is. the courts have said the states can restrict -- thisr -- [ inaudible ]
>> the court will hear this case, we don't know exactly when yet, either in late february or mid march with a decision by late june. so one way or the other, the issue of abortion will be coming from the supreme court in late june and potentially injecting it into the presidential campaign. >> thanks, pete. joining me now is carol tobias, president of the national right to life. are you there? >> yes, i am. >> i'd love to know your reaction to the supreme court taking this up. >> well, we are anxious to see what they will decide. many states have been wanting to place these kinds of limits on abortion facilities and to set up some standards for them. so we're anxious to see what they think should be done. >> the argument has been that it limits women's accessibility to health care, to reproductive
health care, to abortions. what's the argument from your point of view and what would you want to argue before the justices at the supreme court? >> well, we have heard for many years from abortion advocates, they are being picked on, singled out, when members of congress or state legislatures want to pass laws to protect unborn children, then the abortion industry says, you're picking on us. treat us like any other medical facility. pretend abortion is any other medical procedure, and yet, when the state legislatures like that in texas then turns around and says, okay, you have to follow the same standards as other medical centers, you have to follow the same procedures for other medical procedures, then they again stand up and say, you're picking on us. they can't have it both ways.
>> those on the other side, those who are for abortion rights have said that's an overreach and that what you're doing is essentially stopping access to abortion by putting in all the cumbersome rules. your reaction to that? >> why shouldn't a facility, an organization like planned parenthood, any abortion facility that wants to perform abortions, why shouldn't they have to meet the same standards as a clinic that removes a gall bladder or appendix. certainly removing an unborn child is at least as important for the health and safety for the woman what is involved in that procedure. so there's nothing wrong with requiring them to meet the same standards as other facilities. >> carol, how many other states are working with your group, perhaps, to try to come up with similar legislation?
>> i do know of several state legislatures that are looking at this kind of protection for both the mother and the baby. >> and so as pete williams said, this case has implications for the whole country, doesn't it? not just for texas? >> it does. and there is one other provision here. the state law of texas would also require that abortionists have admitting privileges at a local hospital. even when nancy snyderman was medical director for nbc, she said, no matter how small the procedure, she was talking about another case, but no matter how small or seemingly significant the procedure is, you should always make sure your doctor has admitting privileges at a local hospital because you never know when something is going to go wrong. so these limits coming out of
texas are protections for the women that are involved. >> we had someone on last hour and i asked her what she thought the chances were in the supreme court, given their leanings. i want to ask you the same thing. do you think your side will prevail? are you optimistic? >> i'm never going to get what the supreme court will do, because too many people are wrong too many times. but we're certainly going to remain optimistic, that they will see this as common sense regulations, saying that one industry has to -- the abortion industry has to meet the same standards. >> thank you for being with us. >> thank you, kate. i want to bring in texas state senator wendy davis, who is joining us by phone also. she held an 11-hour-long filibuster in opposition to the abortion law in texas, the same
law that the supreme court will take up. can you hear me? >> hi, kate. >> i promoted you to the u.s. congress. my apologies. you were the state legislator who became tied to this issue. you fought standing in your sneakers. so as you look at things now, with the u.s. supreme court taking this up today, what do you think that means from your point of view for women's health? >> i'm very hopeful about what it means. and as your correspondent said earlier, the court will look at two things here. number one, whether the state has exercised a legitimate interest, and whether that interest has created an undue burden on women. and i think that the state is going to have a very difficult time proving either of those things. when this bill was introduced in the texas senate, and i questioned the bill's author
about the legitimate interest that the state might have, he had absolutely nothing to say with regard to why this would make women safer. he, in fact, repeatedly said, i simply feel that it will. and there's a reason for that. in contrast to your caller a moment ago, these are not surgical procedures. abortion is not a surgical procedure. and the state simply cannot claim any interest in why it ought to meet the standards of a surgical center. they also have no ability to claim why there's a legitimate interest in having admitting privileges for doctors because the consequence, any negative consequence of an abortion procedure is extremely rare. and in the instances where a woman has had to seek follow-up, there hasn't been an issue with the fact that her particular
doctor did not have admitting privileges at a hospital. >> what about what carol just said, the reason they had that mandate for the doctor have to have privileges at a nearby hospital was for the woman's own safety? >> there's, again, no evidence that that's the case. in fact, what the evidence points to here is the clever folks at the national right to life group, have understood that by having that standard in place, many of these clinics would have to close. and in fact, that's exactly what the consequence in texas would be. and the reasons for that are twofold. one, most hospitals are religiously affiliated and they do not allow doctors to perform abortions to be a part of doctors who have admitting privileges in their hospital. with y but number two, most hospitals require that doctors who are granted admitting privileges,
admit a minimum wage number of patients to their hospital each year. because abortions have such a very, very rare follow-up in terms of the need for any woman to present at an emergency room, no doctor is going to be able to fill the quota of the patient demand. and they understood this. in fact, lieutenant at the time, lieutenant governor due hurst was very clear as to why these standards were being passed in the state of texas. it was with the stated purpose of closing these clinics, not with the purpose that they're hiding behind now, of protecting women's health. >> this has become a real political issue. you ran for texas governor in 2014. you lost to a republican there. i guess i wonder your perspective today as the supreme court takes this on, in an election year, in a presidential election year, can we separate out the politics from the
policy? >> it should be. it should be the case that politics should not intrude upon constitutionally protected access to reproductive health care in this country. but it has intruded upon that. certainly texas is exhibit a of where that has happened. when you look at the polling of americans, you find that they agree with the supreme court's opinion on this issue in rowe v. wade. that safe, legal access to abortion should be allowed in this country and it should could be the case that we'll see this form a part of the political conversation going forward, particularly in the general election contest. >> and i want to make sure we clarify, the name that was just on the screen was wrong there. that is the voice of former state senator of texas, wendy davis. wendy, thanks so much for being with us. >> thank you, kate. still to come, the isis militant known as jihadi john,
the target of an air strike overnight. the executioner responsible for beheading american hostages. we'll discuss what his death could mean in the fight against the terror group. plus, one of the attorneys for bill cosby joins me live for one of her first interviews in months. and donald trump back on the attack, going after ben carson in a fiery speech. we're live on the campaign with how ben carson is responding. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a fun side to every drive. nissan. innovation that excites. to see if they could find the guy who uses just for men. it's me. no way.
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air strike in syria, killed the isis executioner mohammed emwazi, also known as jihadi john. >> still a little early, but we are reasonably certain that we killed the target that we intended to kill, which is jihadi john. it will take some time as it always does, for us to formally declare that we know we've had skeas. >> emwazi was the masked isis executiona are executioner, for brutally beheading american hostages. the pentagon tells nbc news, the strike came from a hellfire missile launched from one of three reaper drones taking out his vehicle. this afternoon, jihadi john's father spoke to the military. >> i don't care if it's jihadi
john -- this afternoon, john foley's father spoke to the military. it makes absolutely no difference that he's been killed, or may have been killed. >> our teams are fanned out covering all angles of this story. in london, we have nbc news correspondent keir simmons, in beirut, ayman mohyeldin and from the white house, nbc's ron allen. we just said, a hellfire missile launched by a reaper drone, so we're talking about an unmanned drone? >> yeah, that's right. in fact, there were three unmanned reaper drones according to officials that were following jihadi john. one of them fired at him. two of them were u.s. drones.
one, a british drone. it was a u.s. drone that fired and what they had done, they had watched the man they believed to be jihadi john, walk from a building, get into a vehicle, they then struck that vehicle and say, this is the power of those missiles, that they say the vehicle was incinerated and that is how they are confident they did get their man, it does make it more difficult in the sense that there will be unlikely be any dna and any way, this was in raqqa, an isis stronghold, so it would be very difficult to get to the site itself. that said, they will have the ability to look closely at the scene and that's what they'll be assessing, as well as listening to the chatter between different isis officials, if you like, to see what they're saying. >> and keir, we talk about jihadi john, i think every american knows the images that we're talking about, this cloaked man in black with the hood on, responsible for so many beheadings and awful atrocities.
but i guess what symbolically does it mean if he is dead at this point? what kind of a victory is it? is it more the optics of it, the pr of it, that this man is gone? >> you're exactly right, i think. and one u.s. defense official confirming that, really, by describing jihadi john as an isil celebrity. u.s. officials describe isis as isil, saying that he wasn't necessarily a strategic target, but that it is a blow to the prestigious of isis, and what's being said is, by many, is that this is a guy who traveled from here in london, went to syria, became this renowned jihadist, now that they've been able to targit him and they believe, kill him, that they hope sends a message to others who are thinking to do the same thing. they hope that this kind of
operation might persuade others not to follow in his foot steps. >> keir, thanks so much. i want to turn to ayman mohyeldin in beirut. to pick up on that thread, it's possible that this is a devastating blow to isis, but is it also possible this becomes a rallying cry to recruit even more militants? >> reporter: well, there's no doubt that isis in the past has used the death of its seniors to recruit. for many, it's a self-fulfilling wish, to die on the battlefield, to die as what they describe as martyrs. so for somebody who is as high profile, who was as visible, because he was somebody who came from the west, somebody who was featured prominently in a lot of isis propaganda video and somebody who was involved through those videos from
recruiting westerners. it's going to feel that kind of recruitment even more. he's going to be celebrated among the followers and particularly, those isis recruiters who target the west. so as keir was saying, this is a very significant blow to the propaganda arm of isis, particularly that is going after westerners and folks in the u.s. and elsewhere. in terms of what it may do in terms of challenging or changing the battlefield dynamics, i think it's premature to say that taking out this one individual is going to have any impact on the battlefield. kate? >> remind us a little bit more about his background. where did jihadi john come from? >> well, he came from london. his father lives in kuwait. we understand that his background really, you know, he was radicalized in london and then ultimately as keir was saying, traveled to syria and became a very prominent fixture
in a lot of videos of the killing of americans, because of his fluent english, because of his english accent, he garnered a lot of following among jihadists online. his father at the time when his identity was revealed, really disowned him, came out and spoke against what he was doing, and that put his father in the spotlight in critical ways in terms of what his son's radicalization process was, in terms of what lhe endured, from how he became this individual living in a western society, to being at the forefront of global jihad. >> ayman, thanks for that perspective. i want to go to the white house now. ron, the president was scheduled to have a meeting. has that ended now, with former national security team members? >> as far as we know, it's still
going on. we're hoping to get a read-out of that very soon. it's mostly about the transpacific partnership, that massive trade deal with a number of asian nations that the president is trying to get congress to approve. but i'm sure this issue will come up. baker, kissinger, albright, colin powell, a real who's who list of former national security experts. perhaps varying views on what should be done to combat isis in syria and iraq. here today the administration has been -- well, not loudly declaring victory, but it's a good day for them when they're able to take out such a visible figure in the battle against isis. at the time, the administration is facing a lot of criticism for not doing enough to combat the problem in syria and iraq. also when the united states is ramping up its air operations above syria and iraq.
and also, you'll remember, there was an announcement about a week or so ago, that the u.s. is sending about 50 commandos into isis, putting combat troops on the ground in syria for the first time, to take on isis, to work with, and train and advise, as the mission's called, local iraqi fighters on the ground. so at a time when the u.s. is stepping up efforts in syria. also a time when the president is heading out of the country to turkey over the weekend to attend a g-20 meeting of the meeting of the world's leaders. interesting that meeting is taking place in turkey, in a place that's 5 or 600 miles from the syrian border. so they'll confront head on what's going on in syria, the continuing war and the effort to fight isil, and the humanitarian crisis. >> thank you, ron. for more on jihadi john and what the air strike means, i want to bring in co-director of
transnational threats at the center for international studies. so your perspective on what the significance is, if indeed, the u.s. as succeeded here? >> well, it's definitely not a devastating blow to isis. we were able to kill al zarqawi, so just by killing the leader of an organization, is not a devastating blow. that was certainly significant, killing jihadi john. it's great. it's a plus in the tit for tat. but others will fill his place. this is not a leadership decapitation strike. it's good. symbolically, it's excellent. i hope it brings some comfort for the families, though it doesn't sound like it is. >> yeah, it's quite emotional for those families. i want to play some sound of what former ambassador to afghanistan ryan crocker had to say to our own andrea mitchell early today. >> are they a threat to the
region and to us? if they are, we really need to ramp up our game, not just make incremental changes. if they're not, then, okay, pursue a strategy of containment instead of defeat. but i'm not sure i'd want to bet the empire state building that they're not that great of a threat to the homeland. >> and that seemed to be in contrast with what the president was saying this morning, down playing the threat that they might play. where do you stand on that? how big a threat is isis? >> it's a very big threat, there's no doubt about it. it's a big threat overseas. they have affiliates and supporters in russia, afghanistan, and pakistan, across north africa in libya and prominently in the sinai and may have been behind the downing of the russian jet. as far as their focus on the u.s. homeland, it is a threat, not as much of a threat overseas, but let's not forget
that just about 14 months ago, the isis spokesman, annany, called for those who could not travel to the islamic state to attack in place. so that means individuals who are able to gather the means to do so, may attack inside the united states and in other countries. so it's a real threat. on top of that, you have the potential for the returning foreign fighter problem, more than 25,000 or so individuals from around the world have traveled to the battle space to join isis and other groups. those individuals could return home with tremendous skills, motivation, the ability to attack with all the battlefield experience they have, and the networks that can make that possible. so that's another element of the threat. >> all right, thomas sanderson, good to have you with us, sir. thanks so much. >> thank you. we have some breaking news that we are just processing here
this afternoon. i want to tell you what we know right now, but warn you that this information is just coming into us. it's very preliminary, this is all happening in paris, france. paris police confirming several incidents have occurred tonight. an hour ago, there was a shooting involving a paris restaurant in which several people have apparently been shot. that's in a restaurant in paris. another shooting is taking place live on television. police say there's another incident near the soccer stadium. the associated press is reporting an explosion in a bar near a paris stadium, and a shoot-out in a paris restaurant. it's unclear whether some of these reports are referring to the same incidents or different incidents. you'll understand that we're just getting this information in as fast as we can. the associated press also reporting two police officials confirmed the shooting, but had no information about casualties. one of the police officials said, there was a separate
explosion near stade de france. it was unclear if the events were linked. nbc news is working to confirm details on this incredibly fluid situation. again, reports out of paris, several incidents that may have occurred, involving shootings, possibly involving an explosion. we'll continue to work on that. we'll take a brief break to get more details to you. earn once when you buy, and again as you pay. that's cash back now, and cash back again later. it's cash back déjà vu. the citi double cash card. the only card that lets you earn cash back twice on every purchase with 1% when you buy and 1% as you pay. with two ways to earn, it makes a lot of other cards seem one sided. watching fis great...ether ...but i think women would agree... ...huddling with their man after the game is nice too. the thing is,
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all right, a lot of news coming in right now from france. this is in paris, france. there are reports of at least two incidents of violence there. one occurring apparently at a restaurant. that may have been a shooting. other reports, near a soccer stadium, an explosion going off. we're looking now at pictures from french television. you're seeing on the right side, the stade de france, that's the soccer stadium.
and we'll go to brian williams, who has also been monitoring this whole situation. brian, it's very unclear right now, how many incidents we're talking about. >> that's right, kate. and as you mentioned, it's difficult to speculate right now, because the range is from one location to three locations in france. this is french television, a correspondent reporting late on a friday night. the first and perhaps the only, but the first attack believed to have taken place in an area frequented by a lot of young people, a lot of foreign tourists. so we will keep an eye on french television, because that right now is the only live breaking source of information for us. nbc's keir simmons is monitoring everything from london. keir, what can you add? >> brian, you're right. it is a chaotic picture right now. we are beginning to hear several different reports in paris, of
gunfire, and maybe an explosion. i've just been watching one piece of video that one french man has shot while he was watching the scene. there's clearly gunfire on that video, on frequent occasions. he, at one point, says, they're shooting again. there are people from the army, police, here in paris, shooting again, and shooting. during that time there are regulaul regular rounds of gunfire heard in a street where you can see there are paramedics, police, various emergency vehicles. at one point as there is gunfire, the place seems to quiet down as if people hadn't realized that there was a shooter still there. and are quickly reapprised as the gunfire rings out. so it's a chaotic picture in
paris tonight. >> we had a report, that we keep showing the stade de france, that one of the shootings was near the stadium. one of our nbc news people in paris is reporting it was not near the stadium, and the germany/france soccer match continues inside the stadium. again, this is late on a friday night in a city where the dinner hour, especially on weekends, is kind of a moveable target, goes late into the evening. >> right. >> you see these pictures on french television of what appear to be what we would call emergency service police officers, some of them, behind cars, a lot of them using shields. a lot of them with what could be described as riot gear and long weapons. and keir, this matches what you were just reporting about a kind of chaotic urban scene there.
>> yeah, that's right. and people's memories, brian, are going to go immediately back to the attack on "charlie hebdo," the satirical magazine in paris, to that shooting, which panned out over a sustained period over a number of days, there were further shootings in other parts of the city. people will be thinking about that again tonight there. very frightened that something similar is happening. and we don't know at this stage, what is happening. so we definitely don't know yet, who is behind this, what the motivation is, but that's what people will be thinking of, and there will be many, many very scared people in paris tonight. i'm just reading here one report, as you might expect, that francois hollande, the leader of france, has been rushed to safety. we just don't know whether that is true or not. but plainly, he is based in the center of paris. you would expect that kind of operation to be under way by the french security service as they battle to establish what is
happening. as i say, though, we have seen before in france, examples of multiple shooters moving at the same time. it does create a very, very difficult situation for security services in any country. because they are trying to establish what is happening. they are going to be trying to move their own people into place to tackle the situation. and if it is happening in very different places, or in various different places, that just makes the task all the harder. >> yes, a multi-prong, multi-location attack would be indeed very troubling and tough for law enforcement. the pictures we've been showing from french television, by the way, are live. it appears to be something of a kind of a police barricade and a stand-off. we saw the officers over to the right advancing behind the cover of a building, some of them behind the cover of shields. traffic has been stopped.
you see it's rather desolate there. all we know is, we have reports of shootings and explosions in the north and east section of the city of paris, france, on a friday night. and this is live coverage. kate snow has been looking at social media. kate, what have you picked up there? >> yeah, brian, not exactly social media. i've actually been talking about our control room about what we can report. bill neely, who is one of our foreign correspondents, is reporting now that there were at least three attacks in paris. he's also reporting several dead, and that could grow. it looks like, brian, what we've got is a shooting or perhaps more than one shooting in northeast paris, the 10th and 11th, i'm not going to pronounce it right, arrondissement, which i think is a neighborhood.
the other in the stade de france, which is the french stadium. there were reports on social media of people hearing explosions around the stadium, so not shootings, but sounds of explosions around that stadium. french media also reporting, brian, a succession of events is what they're calling it, numerous explosions, they say, on the outskirts of the stade de france. against, the french president was attending the soccer match tonight, germany versus france, and we presume that he was in public view, perhaps in a box, perhaps in a luxury suite. but exercising the better part of caution, they have gotten him out of there. the latest guidance we have is that nothing has been seen
specifically linking this to terrorism. and of course as we've all been pointing out, thoughts quickly turn to terrorism, especially given the "charlie hebdo" attacks, the satirical magazine, that was the scene of the last mass casualty event, the last bloodshed in paris. keir simmons, as we look at french television, these live pictures, it's hard to see much, except for what we saw of the police officers kind of motioning. one of them was walking point and beckoning the others to fall in behind him, using as cover, the front of a building. and i know -- i don't know how your french is, keir, but there's a live report going on, on french television. and i don't know if we can monitor exactly what their correspondent is saying. >> yeah, brian, i'm not able to
hear that, but i can tell you that the effect of a soccer match taking place at the stade de france, if this is happening anywhere near there, plainly, there will not just be many members of the public there, but there will also be many journalists there. i have seen a report by one reporter who is reporting that he is seeing bodies in the street, not clear from his reporting whether those people have been killed or injured. and he is making clear that he doesn't know that from his own eyes on view. but there are many, many reports, partly because there are a large number of people, there will be a large number of people there whose job will have been to report on sport, and now will be finding themselves reporting on a frightening and potentially tragic situation. so there are also, by the way,
brian, just on social media again, people talking about grenades as being the cause of the explosion, or explosions, that they're hearing, but we both know from experience of reporting sadly on these kind of situations in the past, that the initial eyewitness accounts do turn out, some to be right and some to be not right as people, in part, just try to protect themselves. that video, that i was telling you about, where you can see it in the street, people running, emergency services arriving. at one point, a french police officer appears to come out and scream at people to get down, get out of the way, as we hear gun shots ring out. >> as people join our live coverage here, i'm going to read the latest dispatch from the associated press in paris. police officials in france on
friday reported a shoot-out in a paris restaurant, an explosion in a bar near a paris stadium. it was unclear if the events were linked. bfm television reports there were several dead in the restaurant shooting. in the 10th, aron deez mont, two officials confirmed the shooting, but had no information about casualties. also late friday, two explosions were heard outside the national stadium in paris during what they call a friendly, france/germany soccer match. a police official confirmed one explosion in a bar near the stadium. it's unclear whether there are casualties. an associated press reporter heard two explosions loud enough to penetrate the sounds of cheering fans. sirens were immediately heard.
a helicopter was circling overhead. the attack comes as france has heightened security measures ahead of a major global climate conference that starts in two weeks, out of fear of violent protests and potential terrorist attacks. that goes on to say that sensitivities have been heightened since the attack on the newspaper "charlie hebdo," and a kosher grocery store that left a total of 20 people dead, including the three attackers. also that incident on a high-speed train in august, in which those american travelers thwarted a heavily armed islamic radical trying to attack high-speed train passengers. again, this bears repeating, as we look at this kind of shaky video, that is airing on french television. police officials in france friday, according to the associated press, reported a shoot-out in a paris restaurant, and an explosion in a bar near a paris stadium. it was unclear if the events
were linked. keir simmons, if you have anything to add, please do. all right, we've lost keir simmons, who has left us to go do some fact-gathering for the time being. kate snow, same question to you? >> well, brian, i'm trying to sort through the same information that you're receiving here. we're getting lots of different reports coming in from paris, but basically what we know right now is that there was a shoot-out at a paris restaurant, according to the associated press, and that perhaps there was an explosion in a bar near that stadium, unclear whether these two incidents were linked. they're in two different parts of the city of paris. there are reports from our own bill neely, that there perhaps was another attack. bill neely hearing there were at least three attacks. bill neely also reporting that there are at least several people dead. brian, as you probably know,
we're seeing differing accounts of fatalities. i'm not going to mention any other numbers at this point, because we certainly don't know right now how accurate any of these reports are. but what we know based on eyewitness accounts, are a shooting in one part of the capital, the 10th, arrondissement and separately, explosions heard outside the stadium where a france/germany match was being played. two explosions, we've heard. people inside the stadium heard two explosions inside the stadium, loud enough to be heard over cheering fans. and the french president evacuated from that stadium, we presume, out of an abundance of caution. and at this point, no confirmation of what this is. there is no one confirming any report of terrorism or any terrorist group taking credit for any of this. so we're not sure what we have
here, brian. >> yeah, that's right. and as kate points out, worse case scenario is that if all these reports end up being true, worse case scenario is this is a night of coordinated attacks in paris. that would be the absolute worst. we are, however, getting reports, and we just read the latest from the associated press, indicating that there has been trouble. there has been violence, shooting, perhaps explosions in more than one location on a friday night in paris, where the national stadium is full of spectators for a soccer match between germany and france. and again, this bears repeating, france has been on edge, since the shootings, the attack on the offices of "charlie hebdo," the satirical newspaper magazine. and since the attack on the
high-speed train, where three very brave young americans happened to be in the right place at the right time. we're looking at the street scenes. this is a combination of video we're receiving and live and taped turnaround coverage on french television. but we see there obviously a confluence of law enforcement. we saw earlier police in riot gear, police with long weapons, police with body shields, kind of riot shields, advancing on something or someone. keir simmons reported that there have been audible shots tonight in paris. there was an audible explosion tonight in paris. and we will just continue to try to take in as much information
as we can. so kate, can we report with certainty that these have been multiple locations? >> say again. >> that these have been multiple locations, where we've had trouble in more than one place. >> yes, we can say that, brian. what's unclear is how much trouble in each location. but according to multiple sources, we're hearing there was a shooting and that there may be several dead there. and separately, explosions outside the soccer stadium. i'm looking at videos on social media, purporting to show violence outside the stadium. again, i can't confirm, brian, and i'm not sure where the videos are coming from, but they look like user-generated. people taking cell phone videos of something outside that soccer stadium. so what we know at this point is a police official confirmed to the associated press that there was one explosion in a bar near the stadium. we know that people inside the
stadium, including an associated press reporter, heard things. they heard two explosions go off. what those were, we don't know. were they explosives? loud gun shots? we're not sure. and separately again, we've heard about a shooting in the 10th arrondissement, neighborhood, that's northeast paris. i took many years of french, brian, and it doesn't come back, i apologize. >> i bunch of us tried and very little of it stuck. we're seeing still photos on social media as well that appear to show kind much generic aftermath of something, of an explosion. you see the automatic weapons now in these pictures as vehicles and police continue to arrive. these are short-barrel, long guns, but these are police officers who mean business, and these graphics in french are going out live on bf mtv in
france. cal perry is watching social media for us. a part of our team. what have you seen that you can report? >> we don't think it's over. we think it's ongoing. there seems to be indications from local media that perhaps some of these explosions may be from the police using stun grenades. obviously this is very initial information. this is a fluid situation. we're bringing you live picture says as we get them. one of the interesting thing that's happening, people are periscoping, using their cell phones and putting out live pictures, which is helpful to note. this neighborhood in paris is very popular amongst young people especially on a friday night. it harkens that old phrase, soft target. >> if the worst case scenario is true and if this is a barrage, a
multiple-location terrorist attack, this is the definition of soft targets. an autumn friday night in paris, where, you know, the art of enjoying a night out, walking the streets, eating in a restaurant, has been well chronicled. and now we see what some of these paris street scenes look like now. for those unfamiliar with periscope, by the way, from time to time, we put up the video, you see captions in french for french users. you see a variety of graphics in the margins sometimes and that's what that technology is. and cal, this is a case where every one of these crises were further down the road, in a more mature place for social media, meaning there's just more sources. that can be a blessing and a curse. >> yes, and when this incident
started, we saw the curse of social media. because the initial report was that these were soccer fans, hooligans. the german national team is flaying the french national team. where the shooting took place is five blocks directly down the road from the major stadium there in paris. so the initial reporting on social media was that this was perhaps soccer fans. obviously that is now turning out to not be the case. local media is now reporting in france that the anti-terror raid police have arrived at a club in this area. again, it's full of restaurants, full of clubs, and it seems like it's still ongoing. >> we apologize for the floating hearts on the right side of the screen. this is on someone's periscope feed, and obviously not something we are super imposing on the picture. two items of business here, the associated press is now
reporting a bulletin and we do this quoting them. according to police at least 11 people are dead in shoot-out, other violence around paris. so that kind of a number gets your attention. we pass it along because it's sourced to the associated press, in turn, quoting police in paris. it has just been updated by the associated press, to 18. you see reflected there on your screen. this is quoting police in paris, as reported by the associated press. the reuters news agency also reporting a similar figure. laith alcurie is with us, he's a terrorism analyst with flash point global partners. laith, i saw you on the air earlier today on a different
topic, but now the subject commands our attention in paris tonight. what are your additional thoughts and any findings you've been able to make independently? >> well, first of all, i would like to point out that there's still the chatter among the terrorism and jihadist community online. there are no indications that this is a lone wolf attack of any sort. again, the information is unfolding, but what we know so far is that between a dozen and 19 people have been killed, and that it's possible hostages being taken as being reported by some news media. the french authorities just mobilized the anti-terrorism force. of course, the story remains unfolding. but this reminds us of some of the lone wolf terror attacks that have taken place as of late
in europe, especially in france. think of "charlie hebdo" and it appears that high caliber guns were used to take out that many people. these would be considered soft targets, if indeed that was a long wolf attack, or even a coordinated attack of tourists. these soft targets, very minimal security there. we've heard reports that francois hollande was at the stadium. it's not clear whether there's any connection between the shootings and president hollande being present at the stadium. >> laith, just to back up, you're unaware, and this is your life's business, you are unaware of any chatter that would constitute anything close to a claim of responsibility, anything close to a unifying group that is responsible for tonight, but you're instead saying this could easily be the
kind of lone wolf attack we have come to know. >> yeah, it could be that. again, this is all speculative. but we're definitely not seeing any claim of responsibility from any group. we're not seeing a claim of responsibility from any individuals. and there is minimal chatter among jihadists online. we've seen some rejoice in this news because it's a calamity befalling what they view as enemy nations. but if indeed that turns out to be a lone wolf attack or a coordinated terrorist attack, then this is devastating, considering france is still reeling from the terror attacks that took place against charlie hebdo and of course the supermarket earlier this year. >> laith, stay with us. obviously gathering information at the same time, if you must. laith mentioned the possibility of hostages. those of you with any french
language skill can recognize the word on the screen as part of the banner caption on live french television coverage. we have been unable, however, to confirm that. this is the soccer match, you just saw that briefly, that continues inside the national stadium. kate snow and i both struggling with high school french recall. if you know the city of paris, this is happening, at least one of the incidents, at or near the 10th arrondissement, the other near the national stadium where the game continues, but the french president has been spirited out of there. kate, anything more to add? >> we do have some news coming in. our own nancy ing, who is based in paris tells us there is indeed a hostage situation. you referred to the word on the left, it means hostage
situation. apparently this is a nightclub, and based on reporting from french tv, from afp, which is a wire service and from our producer on the ground in paris, this is situation is ongoing and potentially involves hostages. it's described as a shooting at a nightclub with hostages reported. the other thing that nancy ing is telling us is that reports of an explosion near the stadium which we've been talking about, may have occurred at a mcdonald's restaurant near the soccer stadium. nancy says, per police, there was an explosion at a mcdonald's near the soccer stadium. again, brian, not yet clear how many different incidents we're talking about. the bottom line right now, according to the associated press, with police confirming in paris, 18 people dead. that's the latest death toll that we've heard. these numbers may change as the
night goes on, but that's what the a.p. is reporting right now. and again that hostage situation, it looks like a s.w.a.t. team to me, brian, that you see on the left side. >> yes. >> appears to be ongoing at a nightclub in paris on a friday night. >> the music venue is the bataclan and cal perry, apparently an american band was playing there. >> a death metal band, eagles of death metal. it was a sold-out concert, a packed concert hall. so as kate said, it was ongoing. but you look for certain signs in the early minutes of attacks like this. and this one is checking all the boxes. soft target, crowded street, friday night, soccer match. you're hitting people when they're at their most vulnerable, when they're trying to do the things that people do in daily life. >> and we're right in the middle of the argument about balancing our