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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  November 13, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PST

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aggressive counterterrorism measures that not only our own government, but that all western governments are now enacting, if there was, in fact, a cell of eight activated terrorists who were in operational mode, seven of whom were about to kill themselves with -- as suicide b them until you wanted to die with them. that is going to be something that's hard to come to terms with. >> think about this. nothing happens by accident. they probably had dinner at the cambod cambodian place. minimal to lack security in front of the theater. >> brian williams, it's been a real privilege to work with you on this tonight. we're going to be going to my colleague, chris hays, as our msnbc coverage of paris continues through tonight. chris? >> thank you, rachel. good evening from new york. i'm chris hays.
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we continue to tofollow the horrific news out of paris. at this hour, there have been many fast moving developments throughout the day. a lot of information and chaos on this horrific, sad, and tragic day. french authorities say as of now that at least 100 people were killed in a series of coordinated attacks throughout the city. those attacks, as far as we know now, six separate ones happened at a concert hall, a venue called the bata clan and france, a soccer stadium right outside the city. it was at that stadium around 9:00 p.m. local time packed tonight for an international soccer match, a friendly. france and germany began to unfold. two or three explosions, at least one is believed to have been a suicide bomber. people inside the stadium heard the explosion, but there was little reaction to it.
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many in the crowd believing it to be fire crackers, and in fact, the rest of the match was played and completed as the terror rippled through the rest of paris. shortly thereafter, according to multiple reports, gunmen opened fire on restaurants in the east paris in different locations. according to the "associated press," attackers first sprayed outside of the concert hall with machine gunfire and then killing more people and taking hostages before french security forces started to move in. according to police, attackers blew themselves up with seat belts. all of the individuals involved in these attacks are believed to be dead. eight total attackers accounted for. four from inside the concert hall. three from around the stadium. one killed by authorities on the street.
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french president, francois alan declaring a state of emergency in order to make sure to apprehend the suspects. this is before the reports came down that they were confirmed dead. earlier, president obama called the attack an outrageous attempt to terrorize innocent civilians. >> this is an attack, not just on paris. it's an attack not just on the people of france, but this is an attack on all of humanity and the universal values that we share. >> paris officials say museums and libraries will be closed saturday. these are the pages of the newspapers those in paris will be waking up to, if they're not already up on this sleepless night. french president promised the country would respond to the attacks. we are going to lead war which
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will be pitted. you have been heading up some of the coverage of the guardian of eyewitness accounts. what have your reporters said about those who experienced the attack as it happened? >> some in the terrorism scenes have been coming out of the concert venue in eastern paris. we've heard of people being shot at random. and just incredibly harrowing scenes. >> we should say, the venue in question and maybe we should trail back and trace the events as they happened in order, but we've heard a report of over 100 dead at just the bataclan music club. there was a capacity between
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1,000 and 15,0,1,500. it is a large, large venue. they waited until the middle of the concert. perhaps it was a sound effect. and then what happened? >> it seemed that several young men, maybe two or three or four, not wearing masks, completely turned on the audience who were at the concert sort of cheating. and death toll has gone up to 118 and may include the gunman when police raided the venue. >> we've heard some reports of people as they have been coming out. there are some reports to indicate the band itself was able to get out, although, that is yet unconfirmed. they have tweeted earlier, at least one of the members of the band they were trying to account for their members. we are going, of course, in the following days to get the names of the dead and the wounded. and right now, there is a flurry of activity online and in paris
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and in france and across the world, in fact, for people to check on their loved ones. facebook has included a feature which is the topic of your page if you check it. you can find if friends of your in paris are safe. there's, i think, an expectation that there will be a large range of nationalities that were in that concert venue. >> alex, we've seen people traveli traveling. i myself had several friends in f paris. they've been sheltering in bars and cafes and restaurants in apartments with strangers. >> i should say, also, what we don't know as of now, what has not been confirmed, but we are likely to learn very shortly, in
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fact, i suspect we may get information on this while we are on the air this evening. that is who the attackers and who they were affiliated with, now that we have confirmed at least eight of those attackers, it appears, all of them dead. it appears, also, seven of them wearing gear, allowing themselves to blow it up. that suggests a certain level of sophistication. i want you to think for a moment about the way in which this attack proceeded, every singular designed to produce the maximum amount of terror in paris. on friday, an unusually warm friday night. the streets of paris are alive. it begins with the largest concentration of human beings that are in paris in the northern suburbs. at the stadium in a friendly match in germany and france. it begins with francois hollande
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in there. detonates two or three explosions. francois hustled him out. the people inside with tens and thousands there blocking the kinds of cell phone coverage you normally get, largely unaware of what was happening. later, many would take to the pitch to find out the news of the terror that was rippling across and make their way slowly out of the stadium as they sang france's national anthem. take a listen. ♪ >> shortly after the explosion, the stadium phase and the tenth on this month. it is at the heart of the night
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banks activity. young progressive paris. le petit restaurant. possibly out of a car was gunfire. rachel brown was a reporter that's been covering for us all day. rachel, what have you heard about the experience of parisians with these attacks? >> i was on the roux de ville, and many people in the restaurants having dinner around at 11:00 at night had no idea what was going on. and by the time maybe around 11:00, 11:30, many hotels down here went under lockdown. many of the, you know, hotel managers hadn't seen the news themselves and then got word
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that they need to lock their doors. many hotels down here, five star hotels had security guards brought in to monitor the gate. so, you know, there were many -- the streets basically emptied around by midnight or so, and a bit after that, there were barely any cars on the street. and from then on, there was a bit of a lockdown from one hotel i visited, they wouldn't even let people leave the hotel. it was a very tense couple of hours here, but it seems like now, even though there's a curfew, cars along the street have resumed their normal routes and it seems like people are starting to go back outside and see what's going on and start living life, even though it's still quite early here in the morning. >> rachel, can you talk about the ways in which those in paris
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who weren't in the immediate areas where there was actually explosions or gunfire learned of the attacks? was it largely through social media or was it through the news on television? how did this news roll through the city on this friday night? >> reporter: so some of the people i spoke to, a lot of people learned about it on their phones, on twitter. some people would get phone calls from their family members who were at home. there was something called the way and at 1:00 p.m., when people started to come back outside in this area, roux roux de livelle, people started to make plans to get home to a safe area but a lot of people i spoke to learned about it through social media or got a phone call from someone. >> at one point this evening, as the attack was unfolding, there was a hostage situation about to climb. people realize the assailants
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were inside. there were also, we don't know as of now, the reported time was 16 other hostages in there appears to be posting to social media in the midst of it before the police raid apparently ended that situation. i want to go on the phone to erin alwide. where were you in paris tonight and what did you see? >> yeah, hi. i was in the 11th over by eastmont by the cafe and we heard gunfire. rapidly shut the doors of our restaurant. we thought they were coming in. we hid under the table. it was a truly terrifying moment. >> was it immediately clear when the sound of gunfire hit that it was gunfire? did you react or did it take a moment to recognize what you were in the midst of? >> it was immediately clear. there was a large group of us at dinner, and everyone got under
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the table. we didn't blink twice. and the people who ran the restaurant couldn't be lovelier, ran and shut the door. people tried to get the door shut and locked. the gunmen were just two doors down. we heard the gunfire. the machine gunfire and then went running past the restaurant and it actually took about 20 minutes this will we heard fire engines coming to the neighborhood to actually deal with it. >> so you actually heard them on foot running. >> we heard them on foot running. and there was a curtain covering the window all against the windows. we could see people go by and gander, but we couldn't look at them. >> what was in your mind in the restaurant? >> we did have a moment. everyone breathed a sigh of relief. everyone was looking at the media to see if anything else was going on. with the sirens, we weren't sure
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what was going on. we happened to be with a group of photographers. one went next door and actually took pictures of what we heard about five to ten people who were shot. and were on the ground, but again, there was no police presence which is shocking. and so, again, about 20 minutes later, when we heard sirens and by that point, we had seen on social media that there had been an attack on the stadium, we understood this is a larger more coordinated attack. and we were at the restaurant from 9:00 p.m. until 3:30 a.m. we thought maybe there was still a gunman on the second floor. so none of us left the restaurant. >> those who had been the patrons that night had presumably similar lockdowns all throughout the neighborhood that evening, right? >> yeah, everything was locked down. i actually had a lot of friends who are in that area and they weren't able to get to me, and i wasn't able to get to them.
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it was really just sort of traumatic also to read what was unfolding throughout the rest of paris spread out and concerns that they were right there in that concert hall that was being attacked within one of the other restaurants. >> for those watching who are not familiar with this part of paris, or paris at all, can you give us a sense of what that nightlife, that street life is like on a friday night in that, on that street? >> yeah, it's really a bustling part of paris. removed from sort of the more tourist areas, but it's definitely got a real feel. it's not far from the "charlie hebdo" march which you can't help but think about on a night like this. and the cafes, it was unseasonably warm. outside of the cafes, walking around. actually running late to dinner. i would have gone right by that
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cafe, but i had taken a car, so again, this all goes through your mind when you think about what was going on because there were so many people on the street. >> were there people sitting and eating outside? >> yeah, there were people sitting and eating outside at the cafe. we were at a smaller restaurant. again, we were indoors, so we could see people running by and a lot of commotion going by, even though there was a curtain that was somewhat sheer. there was a ton of people on the streets outdoors. >> did you hear, were there any declarations by the assailants that you could hear as they open fire or as they ran past? >> absolutely nothing was yelled. it was just really intense gunfire. it felt like it was right on top of us. it's the loudest gunfire that i've ever heard. and i don't know how many people were there. >> erin, i am so happy that you're safe and i am sorry that you had to go through this trauma. and please, please be safe and thank you for taking the time tonight. >> yeah, thank you, chris.
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>> joining me now, laura haim. she's been doing reporting for us all evening. laura, what is the latest? >> i just was talking -- i was speaking with a source. we, unfortunately, have to expect more dead people because this source was telling me that really, really sad news, injuries. some people are in a catastrophic state tonight. so it should be more than 120 dead people. what i have which is quite interesting is the man inside the musical theater, when the others arrived, he hid a bullet in his leg but he was to witness what they were saying. and according to this man, they
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were young, they spoke french, one was screaming. the french, we are stronger than you. that's what this man heard and what he said to different people, so even if he has been in shock, the people are fully traumatized. we just learned according to the beginning of the investigation, you had, again, the swiss side bo, suicide bombers outside of the stadium. and then you had the crew with some investigators i just spoke with who was responsible of the attacks of the restaurant. the shooting in the street and then went to the theater to begin to.
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it was extremely violent in the theater. four to six terrorists. it was extremely violent. they were firing at people. people went all over. injury of the dead. tried to escape and then there was this powerful testimony of one of them that had on his head, he was completely petrified by fear. and the terrorists looked at them and did a sign with his head, and he said, apparently, he let them go. of course, i was not there, but according to the witness who was witnessing this scene, the terrorist really looked and let them go, and then there was a woman who was marching and she took an object and she throw the object according to the witness, and then the tourist killed her. apparently, some of the people tried to escape.
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50, 20 peop 15 or 20 people tried to escape. they had to escalate bodies out to the witnesses who are in the hospital. seven hospitals in france are on alert. again, it's the first time the french people are reaching that. it's the first time that suicide bombers are attacking france. >> the sentence that you said strikes me as an important one obviously as people figure out who's responsible for the murder. not whether those assailants were proved to be french born, french citizens, or people from elsewhere. that sentence suggests that perhaps these are not french or consider themselves french. >> maybe they're born in france, but they don't consider to be french anymore. and that's their problem.
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when they attacked against "charlie hebdo," they have a french background and something is happening, they're free radicalized. it is a very difficult economy situation and then again, completely radicalized in some mosque, go to training camps in syria, and then they came back. they don't see themselves as french, but they have a french passport. and the terrorists attack and that's the story of "charlie hebd hebdo". now, something i just want to also tell you, you know, it seems to have been a really sophisticated attack, well prepared. and then something which is striking me. at first, and unfortunately, i have to say that as a fact, it was a band which was playing inside the bataclan, the musical, and sometimes the french people but tonight, it was an american band.
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maybe it's a symbol of something. and then the second is that this musical is really close to "charlie hebdo." it's 300 meters away from "charlie hebdo." we know the terrorists are planning, planning, planned attacks. each detail is counting. we have to keep in mind this is a very sophisticated attack, well prepared with a lot of symbols this evening. >> yes, this is certainly the most sophisticated attack we've seen in a long time, probably since mumbai where we saw two dozen, at least, assailants at eight different locations. this is, as of now in terms of casualties, this is the worst attack on french soil since world war ii. it's the worst attack in the west since 9/11. this is an eyewitness attending
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the concert in the bataclan who told the translation to reiterate the kind of scene of horror in there. there were three of them, i think, that were shooting into the crowd. they were armed with huge guns. it sounded like hell. there was blood everywhere, bodies everywhere. we were screaming. we were trampling on each other. it was hell. i want to read now, president obama earlier today when he spoke, he had called francois hollande because he imagined he was engaged in the midst of dealing with the attack itself. we now know the president spoke by phone this evening with president hollande to offer condolences of the american people for the horrific terrorist attack this is evening. the president reiterated america is steadfast on any necessary
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support. two leaders pledged to work together with nations around the world to defeat the courage of terrorism. i want to bring in now washington from washington. people of nbc news justice correspondent, pete. pete, i imagine they'll be up all night trying to piece this together including our own right here. >> right, well, the fbi has a team of people normally in france at what's called the legal etepche. they have people standing by to come in and help. they do expect in the coming hours to be getting requests from french authorities to help them check out leads, but whether or not there were american victims here, this investigation will be very much in the hands of french authorities. but for example, as the french gather up cell phones, computers, laptops, anything else connected to hackers,
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they're going to want to try to trace that information, see where it leads, and the fbi, other agencies from other countries can sure help them do that. the homeland security department tonight says there's no specific or credible threat to the u.s., but some big city police departments. government and there are a couple here in washington. they are doing the same thing in new york. visible presence in new york at public places. the same thing the new york state police say they'll be doing. basically, they're telling their officers to be extra vigilant. law enforcement officers say the same thing. it's around critical sites in public venues and quite a few big events tonight. a justin bieber concert at staples center, a christmas tree lighting at the grove. that was expected the draw at least 30,000 people.
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and there are concerts around the country tomorrow at sporting events. and the operators of these venues say that they are going to step up their security. all of this not based on any reason to think that there's going to be an attack in the u.s., but definitely better safe than sorry. this is sort of prudent response, they believe, to what's happened in paris. >> pete, obviously, what is striking to everyone as we saw this unfold was just the tremendous amount of apparent logistical sophistication. not only do you have a series of coordinated attacks that happened near simultaneously, someone has cleared constructed suicide bomb vests for the assailants, acquired weapons. they had coordinated. the kouachi brothers, and his wife boumeddiene appears to
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flee. this was something far larger in scale. and obviously with the bodies essentially now confirmed should not take investigators very long to nail down some of the real basic fairly quickly of how this came about. >> the basics, maybe. but trying to figure out who they were associated with, who was helping them, that's the thing that will, of course, be the concerning thing now. i know the people who took part in this attack are dead, but they wonder who else they were in touch with, who else was helping them for fear that there might be other things planned or there might be a second wave or who knows. that's what they want to try to find out. who they were in cahoots with? who was helping them, who was advising them, who was supplying them? those are all very urgent questions to check out. >> i'm joined now by kevin barron. military analysis and executive
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editor of defense. kevin, we do not know who committed this atrocity. as of yet as far as reports indicate now and has claimed affirmative responsibility, we should say that this week already, there was a horrific terrorist attack in beirut, in the southern area of just south of beirut where 43 people were killed in a mass bombing. isis did claim credit for that, but given the framework of this, what can we begin to piece together? >> well, and this comes after the attack. there's been a series of events. in the middle of them, that's what the united states has done. the united states has helped launch or aid the iraqis and a couple of different moves. we heard off of sangent mountain to cut off isis fighters. the strike against jihadi john,
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the executioner of the american hostages. some move in romadi as well. i think this is something that seems like it was coordinated. it was planned. it's a big operation. this is nothing knee jerk. but coming on the heels of all this activity, this is -- i feel like we're in a new chapter, at least, of this war on this terrorism, this war against isis. >> in terms of precedent here, kevin, we have not seen -- isis has carried out massively destructive terrorist attacks in the region, and in fact, have been using suicide bombers as part of their military assaults within iraq, driving up to entire baa tal yttalions blowin themselves up. we have not seen this level of coordination in the west as of yet. is that correct? >> that's correct.
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that's true. but you bring up a good point. there's the military fight against isis, which is seeing in iraq and syria, which you see on the ground. air strikes, drone strikes. and then there's terrorism in cities. in western cities. these are two completely different threats, two completely different conflicts to deal with. i've seen online a lot of criticisms of the obama administration and their level of willingness for military intervention. you know, shows they're leaving from behind, all the campaign lines. but 20 troops on the ground i don't think will affect what happens in paris today or even the aircraft on the ground. but we have to be careful not to conflate the two. what the military can do and should do or what the people want them to do versus this new type of terrorism shifting from the backfield to first europe and then eventually the big
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theater, to america. >> we also should just be clear, and i want to just make sure, i think all eyes are on isis particularly because of all the activity in that region and particularly because they claim for the baeirut bombing quite explic explicitly, that they kind of engineered on "charlie hebdo," al qaeda is still a possibility. they're still obviously operational and there's a possibility that they will -- they could have done this as well. >> well, yes, of course. and a lot of people are already looking at al qaeda and the islamic, across the m mediterranean. earlier this year, i interviewed him and he was still singing the song that for france and europe, they were much more closely
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watching libya than syria and iraq because it was so much closer, because of the historical ties to that part of africa because of french participation with taking gaddafi. so it was a slightly different fight for them. but the larger picture, it doesn't really matter. it will matter some to investigators and counterterrorism officials, but to the grand war, the war of ideas, the war against terrorism, you know, more and more, it's less who this flies on but more interested in how the threat is really traveling and coming in a couple of years, is the u.s. worried about threats from the region or terrorists directed attacks that originate here in the united states or we'll find out if
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these attackers traveled to the region and back. what their background, what their affiliations were. all of that will come out and that will paint a picture of where the war is going, how well the united states and european leaders are staying ahead of it, and i think what will be needed to do to stay ahead of it even further, again, it's a lot different to call for bigger defense spending, bigger defenses in europe than it is to call for homeland security, counterterrorism efforts, infiltration of these group, greater intelligence, greater surveillance and the surveillance state versus privacy debate. that's a lot different than pentagon, ground troops, boots on the ground. >> kevin barron, thanks a lot for joins us. >> brejo spoke with nbc's lester holt via skype. >> charlotte, thank you for joining us. describe to us what you saw in the restaurant. >> i was sat in the restaurant
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with my friend, and all of the sudden, we heard these two gunshots, what sounded like loud explosions and everybody jumped to the floor in confusion and panic. a baby was lying on the floor and i heard maybe for a minute, maybe numerous more gushlts ansd pieces of glass hitting everybody lying down. i wasn't aware if anyone was wounded. there was a pool of blood. i wasn't sure that she was bleeding. then i realized how serious it was. we stayed in the restaurant for a while. i'm sure we weren't safe to leave. but i live 15 minutes away, so we ran out the restaurant. >> did you see the attackers?
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>> no, i didn't. i had my head to the floor. i believe there was more than one. definitely sounded that way. they didn't come inside the restaurant. it seemed to be a drive-by, but also seemed they stocked and reloaded their guns and then fired another round. and so we were on ten tooks because we weren't sure whether or not it was over or not, and yeah. just generally, that was the feeling of terror. >> and then when it was over and you made your way out of the restaurant, can you give us a sense for the magnitude of what you saw? >> i don't think the impact really hit us initially. what was interesting is that nowhere else was anybody aware of what had just taken place. literally, just a number of, you know, blocks down, people weren't aware that there had
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been a shooting. we were running out sort of screaming, crying, and people in all the neighboring cafes and clubs and bars didn't have any idea. but it wasn't surprising to me when i heard later reports that it was a coordinated attack, because for me, personally, the feeling i had was exactly the feeling i had during the "charlie hebdo" attacks. the feeling of it was something larger, more sinister. >> as a journalist, certainly, you've covered these sorts of things but to witness it for yourself, how are you processing it emotionally what you've been through? >> it's funny you ask that, because i don't, i'm not sure i am processing it emotionally. it's just very matter of fact to me. and i think that's normal. i think that's exactly the way my friend who was with me felt. it was like it wasn't real, like it wasn't happening. it's the kind of thing you see in films or the kind of thing i
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watch, i write about all the time. and it's not something that you ever fathom coming into your world. so -- >> you mentioned the "charlie hebdo" attack less than a year ago and now this. paris is a charming wonderful city with so many people know and enjoy, but to watch this, what is this doing, do you think, to the collective psyche of the people that call paris home right now? >> um, i think, with my knowledge of what the identity and a stronger sense of what it means to be alive, what it means to be with your loved ones, that's definitely how i feel. but i think i would say, and i am in paris, it makes us cherish
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the city more and want it to be protected and want the people to be united. that's what i think. >> and then so to witness what you witness and no doubt, you've heard about the siege at the concert hall, what did you feel when you heard that? >> i felt like i'd been punched in the stomach. because i felt like we were so lucky. i felt like it was too good to be true in a strange sense that we just got out and we were fine, completely, like completely unscathed. i had a tiny shard of glass hit me in the face, nothing else. and i thought to myself, and i wasn't aware of how many people had died at the restaurant, and i thought to myself, this is crazy. this is crazy that barely any people were hurt and then when i heard of the hostage situation, i thought this is so, so
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gruesome and that i can't imagine the fear that that must have brought upon those people being held hostage in the actual hour. >> charlotte, you have been through a lot. we appreciate you taking the time and sharing your account with us and thank you so much. >> that was lester holt talking with charlotte brejo. more on the location and number of casualties. five killed, eight critically wounded at the roux la belle. no victims, the roux de
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de charonne. most of the deaths in this incident, already more than a hundred, we believe, from that one location where hundreds to see an american rock band play a show. i'm on the phone now with a sports photographer that was inside the national stadium at the time of the blast and can you tell us what it was like when the blast first went off? >> not really, it was just two exploding noises that i thought didn't sound like a firework or not something that happens at a football match. i, like the other photographers,
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didn't really seem to care. neither did the crowd. most stayed put and didn't do anything. but twice, what i can recall, and i think after that, i received a text message from my wife and, because she's in berlin, in germany, and she was telling me, there's been an attack in paris. i don't want you to go anywhere. stay where you are. and i think if you are in the stadium stadiu stadiums, the signals are not very strong because everyone is using mobile at the same time. and i think she got worried because i didn't reply to her and got these frantic text messages, like seven or eight of them right after that. and once the match ended, i could actually get to the wi-fi, i called her and understood what was going on. >> then you called her, you understood what was going on. i imagine there was a similar
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dawning process among folks in that stadium. at what point do people in the stadium -- i know the game was played whilst all of this mayhem and carn i can't imagiage was i of its walls. at what point did they realize what had happened? >> i'm sure they were getting text messages or calls or e-mails, whatever, from their family and friends outside the stadium. but there's not really like a mass hysteria and panic. people probably organized in the stadium, they have the big screen and didn't say anything about the incident either. which i thought was a bit weird, because that time, things were already happened and i got information for that as well. i then left the pitch and went on to the media center to talk to my wife and then i was watching the feed that was on the stadium and people were filing on to the pitch.
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because i think all the public transport was suspend because of the whole thing that was going on. so that's why i went out and i got some pictures, and then yeah. that's kind of how it went on for, like, i don't know, half an hour, an hour. >> was the crowd allowed to leave or were people essentially held in the stadium for some period of time? >> i think they were held or they didn't mind. i don't know exactly. because there were so many people in the pitch, which is obviously very unusual for a football match because they just all leave. i think it could have been both. they were held back or they just decided to stay. and the french football fare, a lot of people sit on the pitch just to, i don't know, keep their mind off things? they could have easily stayed in the seats. but they were allowed to go on the pitch. >> all right.
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the first attacks in the stadium. largely shrugged off by the crowd that thought they were a fire cracker, i suppose, and not the beginning of the worst terrorist attack in paris or the worst attack in france since the end of world war ii. joining us now is chef charlotte, phenomenal journalist and author and what is happening? >> i just witnessed the aftermath. i was in the restaurant. when the waiter came out and said, you know, if you want to -- you might want to cancel your order. give you three options, and we sort of sat there and watched people on the street going by.
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and get the phone calls and stopped in the middle of the street, and people sort of lock arms and walk across the street and my friend and i learned that a young trend of ours was closer to the scene and we wanted to go and help her. she was sort of shuttered up in a restaurant and watched sort of the wave of realization come across the people that we saw as we walked down the street. >> this was a friday night in a part of paris where there's lots of nightlife as we heard. you were out, apparently. what was that reaction like? how are you explicitly told? are you told there's an attack or you need to get inside? >> no, no, no. the horrific thing was, to be really honest with you, you would see people, and they would look at their phones. people looking at the phones. and this is going to sound sort of horrible, but they would sort
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of look incredulous. like they couldn't believe it, and they would tell jokes, and say we can't stop what we're doing because we can't let the terrorists win in a joking way, and say this was more serious than they understood and they would get up and leave and walk away. and we started walking away ourselves. other things that were not so pleasant, the very first thing we saw, we started walking toward the scene of things to help get our young friend, three or four skin heads, like bouncing off each other with excitement. they seemed to be thrilled with the situation. they were keen for the violence to come, but that was the exception. most people, everybody saw people locking arms, and that was a kind of good thing to see. or people just stricken with grief. but there wasn't that kind of,
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you know, we've seen the video now, and i guess your previous speaker, the people singing the french anthem at the soccer stadium. it wasn't as coherent as that on the parts of the streets that i was on. but it was more, to me, more sort of the confusion of grief that respond to these events. >> jeff charlotte, i'm glad you're safe and thank you for giving us a little bit of your time this evening. >> thanks. >> all right, here with me now is susan cork of anti-semitism and extremism with human rights first working on this france report and you heard jeff charlotte saying that he saw several skin heads on the streets bouncing up and down. if there was one thing unmasked by the "charlie hebdo" attack, it was all of these very profound and intense tensions
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straining underneath french society. what did you learn when you were there doing this report? >> we've been monitoring trends with concern over at least the past year. there's a toxic mix that's been happening that has the largest population of jews in europe, the largest population of musl m musli muslims. you have far right party in the national front that now has the 25% of the population supporting it, and it has risen through to its rhetoric of fear of the other and directing hatred towards minorities, muslims, jews. so we've been worried about trends in france, and particularly, after the "charlie hebdo" attacks, i can't believe there's a tragic attack again. >> what has been -- and i think
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there has been intense attraction to the immediate aftermath. we all remember images of the national solidarity marches, the huge march that brought world leaders from all over. but there's been little follow-up in what that meant for the political situation. france finds itself now with francois hollande, hovering at 20% going into regional elections. finds itself, all of europe straining to deal with the unprecedented influx of refugees since world war ii, rushing into europe, fleeing precisely the kind of violence, precisely the kind of violence, possibly the same assailants as we saw in paris tonight. what is that political situation like in france over these last ten months? >> interestingly, i just returned on wednesday night, and what i was there doing was
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meeting with a lot of french officials interior, the ministry of education, the prime minister's office. the agency responsible for combatting racism and anti-semitism, discussing what they're doing and how they see these trends. urging, you know, greater action and solidarity with the u.s. and other european nations. more needs to be done. interestingly, with the refugee crisis, fewer refugees have been going to france. our reporting has told us that it's seen by the refugees as in hospital environment.
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terrorism is well and alive in the world, #no. i want to state very clearly, there is absolutely no evidence at this point or presented there is any connection between the refugees and back to the horrible violence we've seen in the region. nothing to establish at this point between refugees and we don't know what will happen as the investigation proceeds. there is nothing in front of anyone right now just to be clear as people talk.
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the strategic point of violence like this to produce essentially civil war, produce sectarian conflict in the case of iraq, it was intentionally done to pit them against each other. in which "charlie hebdo" celebrated and said he was in isis supporter. if i'm -- no gray coexistence between them and the west. we want to make it so that you have to choose sides. >> that's very dangerous and one of the things that i'm concerned about. right now in the immediate aftermath and it's important everyone is joining in solidarity and it is a security response. looking to the longer term, we don't want to play into this
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clash of civilizations narrative. in the longer term for longer term security what we need is tolerant, inclusive societies where people are respecting rights and not creating the conditions for another violent attack. we need to be working in the longer term to have security and have security be protection of rights and respect for the other. >> all right. susan cork, count erg anti-semitism and extremism who just got back from france, she was talking to french officials talking about the situation in that country and found this out when she got back. thank you for your time. i mentioned republican congressman. sending their grief and solidarity and their support for the people of france tonight. hillary clinton had this to say. all our prayers are with the people of france tonight. we must stay side by side every step of the way with france and our allies around the world to wage and win the struggle against terrorism and violent
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extremism. paris remains a city of light. no terrorist attack will dim the spirit of the french people or a common commitment to the democratic values we share. ted cruz, senator from texas and obviously a candidate for the republican nomination issuing this statement. we need to immediately declare a halt to any plans to bring refugees that may have been infiltrated by isis to the united states. we need to redouble our effort to prevent isis agents from penetrating our nation by other means. reactions to an enemy that will continue to attack us until they succeed once again. we must immediately recognize our enemy is not -- it is extremism that declared jihad kwens against the west. msnbc contributor and an astute observer of foreign policy. this is going to land front and center. there's a democratic debate tomorrow night that will still
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happen. there has been a lot of rhetoric around this. what do you -- how do you anticipate this will ripple out in the rejond john and here in the u.s. >> as you just shared, regrettably, you'll see some people reach out, recognize what an incredibly human moment this is that the trauma that we're seeing unfold, this horrible tragedy in paris is something people think could happen at home. then you'll see others, like ted cruz, that say we need higher walls, we need to be more of a fortress society. we need to separate aliens, those that we fear, those we might fear, those that we perceive might be different from us and it's going to create really big challenges for us. let me read you one other comment from donald trump. tonight he said isn't it interesting that the tragedy in paris took place in one of the toughest gun control countries in the world and the french ambassador to the united states said to him, this message is repugnant in lack of human
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decency. vulture. that's the rhetoric we're seeing out of this horrible tragedy. >> steve, let me say that trump tweet was in response to "charlie hebdo." the response from the ambassador came tonight but was getting tweeted tonight. the. >> my apologies. >> that's okay. i wanted that -- it was responded to by the ambassadorment unclear if he knew that was in response to "charlie hebdo." although the sentiment similar. the other question here, there's going to be -- i mean, there seems to be already people zeroing in on isis. i think that's probably due to the fact that the predicate for this is we saw isis explicitly claim credit for a horrific suicide bombing in the southern suburb of beirut that killed people. there's tremendous speculation about what brought down that russian airline in the sinai
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peninsula. there was an initial claim of responsibility from isis, although they appeared to be claiming they shot it down with a missile and didn't look like that happened. why do you think the jump to isis and what does it mean for the region if it were in fact, if it does in fact end up being connected back? >> i think it has profound implications. after "charlie hebdo," the work that went into trying to enhance security procedures, coordination between the national military in france, the police and the intelligence authorities trying to muscle up the presence within paris and the environments around it was something that the french government took so seriously, worked so hard on and you've got collaborative intelligence within europe and among many western states and others on trying to monitor the chatter between various groups. so it's such a sophisticated attack could have taken place is daunting and worrisome. if isis is tagged -- but i would
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each say in al qaeda was tagged, it hardly hat matters at this point which one. it nonetheless shows greater and greater sophistication and the ability to expand the battlefield outside of the iraq and syria context. everyone i talked to in the intelligence sector said the debate is a bit silly at this point. a bomb brought down the plane, they argue. however that happened, it showed an ability to penetrate a security system there and we've begun to basically see isis and other islamic radical groups expand the battlefield into areas that are very, very unlikely. that is something that i think civilized and particularly western society is not as prepared for as they thought they might have been given all of the doubling down they've done on their own security. i would even argue that that is the case in the united states. >> we should note, of course, that, again, we don't know. >> those are big ifs.
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>> i want to be clear if people are just tuning in. sometimes in the wake of these, al qaeda or isis may claim credit. as of yet, we have no claim of credit. we have not established who the assailants are. the paris prosecutor is saying that the eight attackers are dead. and possibly others at large. now, that obviously, would be deeply worrying. as of now, they're reporting there doesn't seem to indicate that any active manhunt is happening. although, we do not know everything that's happened behind the scenes as far as french intelligence goes. what we do know, however and we should reiterate steve, were this to be one of those groups, one of the jihadi groups, they have been murdering thousands of people in the region through similar means for quite some time as the vortex of horror that is the syrian civil war has ground off.
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>> you had president obama, you had secretary of state john kerry both basically say that what is unfolding in places like syria and parts of iraq is the embodiment of the worst kind of evil in our time. i think, in that case, we see it from an arm's length or further than that distance. this is bringing the horrors of that civil war inside syria x some of the trauma that we've seen as people trying to eggs cape that. a lot of people talking about refugees and blaming them for what is happening in france and others have been saying those refugees are running from this. i think that's very important to keep in mind. there's deep horror in this part of world and we're getting greater glimpse of it because it's somehow coming into our cities. >> steve clemons, thank you very much. appreciate it. it's just past midnight here on the east coast in the u.s. we're continuing to follow the horrific news out of paris where

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