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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  November 15, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PST

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good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. president obama issued a proclamation honoring the victims of friday night's attack in france. all flags at public buildings are to be flown at half staff through wednesday. the isis held city of raqqa in syria, the groups defecto capital, after isis claims responsibility for the series of coordinate aid tackets wrg targeting a soccer stadium,
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concert hall and restaurant, killing, as of now, 129 people. attackers open had fire during a performance at the bataclan concert hall. meanwhile manhunt is under way for an eighth suspect believed to be involved in friday's attacks. french officials releasing this photo identifying the suspect as a belgium-born man, french authorities telling police had stopped him near the belgium border but released him after an id check. this is the hunt for possible accomplices goes on. belgium officials announcing seven arrests. one linked to a rental car found in paris. authorities have begun identifying the seven dead attackers. as many as three of the seven suicide bombers involved were french citizens, according to the associated press. one man identified by finker
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print is 27-year-old that was tied in 2005 to radicalism. french troops have been deployed throughout the city. many fled after loud noises in the area triggered a panic. joining me from pair sits anchor of abc nightly news lester holt. lester, thanks for joining us. i understand you got the opportunity today to speak to one of the individuals that was in that concert hall. >> i did. man, a freelance music journalist. he had gotten a ticket, went to the concert, and by virtue of location, and he said being slow allowed him to follow a group of people who found a way out in a remarkable way. here's his story. >> i wasn't supposed to go to this show. >> reporter: a friend gave lerond concert ticket, that he
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carries with him, along with the memory that will never leave him. he sat in the balcony. a great night, he says, until that moment. >> first, the sound, the explosion, so many it was on the show i thought and people around me were more and more afraid because i was slow i follow other people who were under the chairs, on the floor, very slowly going to a door. and then we can hear the sounds of some screams and weapons and the smell of -- >> reporter: gun pouder? >> yes. and someone had the idea to go through a window to get to the roof. >> reporter: was there a ladder? >> no. very difficult access to the roof. everyone helped each other. it was a really beautiful
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behavior. because we were gentlemen. it was ladies first. people in danger, but to think about helping others. >> reporter: the group managed to crawl to an adjacent building where they huddled in a stranger's darkened apartment waiting for help and comforting each other. >> what sort of things did you say? >> inside, i said to people, we are lucky, i think. we will make it. we will survive. >> reporter: he has spent most of the last two days closed away in his apartment. tonight, lefond is back on the streets of his beloved paris. >> i walk down the street and sometimes i feel a bit guilty because i'm alive and some people are not. and why me? why me?
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but i know i'm wrong. i know, i don't have to be guilty to be right. and i think a lot about the people. and i don't know what to say. >> reporter: why me, the question of so many survivors here. and why us, chris. that's the question that many parisians continue to ask after they've been hit a second time inside of ten months. >> lester, i imagine that the city of paris is processing this, obviously with grief, with anger, with confusion. we saw that incident earlier where people ran in the wake of loud noises. what is your sense of how parisians are coming to terms with the fact that this is now happened twice in one year. and what it means for life in that city? >>. >> reporter: i think it is hard for people to articulate it. when you stand here amid the
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strength of crowds and people, you know, offering tributes at memorials, it is easy to talk of strength and unit and all those things and standing up to terrorism. i think people probably have many thoughts that they haven't quite articulated about this. it has to gnaw at your collective sense of security. as we noted, we saw that today. to watch that wave of fear and panic ripple across this city so rapidly, simply astounding. because you almost have the feeling, things are pretty much to normal and people are carrying on and become this happened. and we saw that. as i said, in our broadcast earlier, very thin veneer of that stowic optimism here. people are deeply rattled. >> obviously the state of emergency remains in place whether paris itself, the metro, the cultural atracks, big public places will be open at some point tomorrow or this week.
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>> my understanding is the museums will be open tomorrow. i'm not sure if everything will be up to speed. but you know, tomorrow is monday. and i think that the city will probably begin to become more occupied. people going about their daily lives as the period of mourning will be officially ending. >> all right, lester holt, thanks for joining us. i really appreciate it. >> reporter: chris. >> joining me now, white house correspondent for france 24. phillip, news of the air strikes in raqqa, the french have already been engaged in some air strikes oversyria, directed at isis. but this signals, at least it appears, kind of intensification. what is your understanding of the direction of the hollande government when it talks about being at war? >> it sounds a little bit like a revenge mission, doesn't it? a barrage of air strikes on just the one city. the isis strong hold of raqqa in syria.
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it is not just an intensification really. it is a real change of tactic for the french military. because up until now, the french have been active over iraq with its air strikes and to a very, very limited degree have they been over the skies of syria. there have been, i believe, just the one air strike on behalf of the french military in raqqa itself. now we're up to 20 in just the one night. so what we're seeing here is exactly what, according to the pentagon and readout we have provide of a phone call between defence secretary and hollande they talk about concrete steps to talk. this is exactly it. from the defense ministry we know this is done in coordination with the united states. that means in other words, of course, that intelligence was shared between the u.s. and france. because again, it was largely the u.s. military and its -- the u.s.-led coalition that had been carrying out air strikes in
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raqqa specifically, the strong hold of isis. but also in the rest of syria. this is pretty much new territory for france tonight. >> of the nearly 8,000 air strikes that have been carried out in the last 15 months, my understanding is that u.s. operate bed 6500 of those. other coalition countries, the other 5500. we saw the when the jordan pilot was murdered in that awful way, the jordanian prime minister striking back. do you anticipate the hollande government committing to a open-ended conflict with sustained resources directed with the explicit goal of a military defeat of isis? >> i think it is becoming clearer and clearer, isn't it, that a military defeat of isis, as you say might well be the end goal for the united states as well. it was a very, very quick reaction from the french president hollande where just a few hours after the attacks had begun in paris, he had already
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said that france was at war. indeed there were quite a few headlines in the french newspapers the day after the attacks that said this time we really are at war because after all, france knows this kind of situation from the 7th of january and the "charlie hebdo" attacks. that didn't clear the intensification of war in syria and iraq. this time around, though, it clearly has. we will have to wait and see more than anything whether the french people want its military to be more involved. so far were we certainly have not been getting that impression. that does not mean though that the french defense ministry and french president don't want to go after isis really hard now and we've really seen this so quickly after the attacks in paris and with a period of mourning not even yet over, this intensification and big change of tactic, this barrage of air strikes in the one strong hold
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of raqqa, that really is a big, big change. it seems almost impossible for france, though, to keep this up. because there is a very good reason why france isn't carrying out as many air strikes as for example the u.s. military is at this point. france doesn't have enough planes and enough material and logistics to be able to carry out sustained period of air strikes like the united states has now for over a year. that is one of the key reasons why france isn't quite as involved as it has so far. >> there was a comment by the french interior minister about discussing shutting down mosques that were essentially contributing to radicalization. obviously, that in the american context would be massively controversial, a place of worship. there is a state of emergency for the entire country which is essentially unprecedent in modern or recent times. what did you anticipate is going to happen along the lines of
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essentially civil liberties and security law in france? >> well you can argue that maybe no other people in europe is as proud of its liberty as france is. after all, it is in the national motto. now when you meng the potential closing of mosques, that is something that could simply happen under this state of emergency at this point. the french government absolutely now has the right under this nationwide state of emergency to close public places. to stop traffic for example all together. it can do a lot more than it usually can. it's not necessarily of course a curfew that is in place in the likes of paris and suburbs. just that recommendation on behalf of the french authorities in paris and around paris for people not to leave their homes. that of course is not happening at this point. it is a really defiant population of paris that we're seeing now. after all, those scenes of panic
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that you saw in the public and central paris, they only happened because so many people were out there in the first place. the republique is where people went after the "charlie hebdo" attacks to pay tribute. parisians have been showing today on a beautiful sunday in paris has been simply to go out. that is the defiance that i've seen from a lot of my friends in pair piri paris. they've been sitting in bars, sitting in terraces in the streets of paris. in defiance, of course. peopleitting peacefully and restaurants and going peacefully to a concert who were attacked friday night. the parisians certainly want to show that they want to get on with normal life. as lester holt just mentioned, tomorrow being monday, this is also a city that really does want to somehow get back to as normal a situation as possible.
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>> all right, phillip, great. appreciate it. >> we are learning more about the victims of the attacks friday night. one, an american college student, about to have a memorial held in long beach, california. >> those close to the 23-year-old called her mimi. >> she was very warm. very caring. >> her aunt says the student from southern california was in paris fulfilling a dream. fascinated with the city, she wanted to learn french. so the design major from cal state long beach signed up for a foreign exchange program. >> very much after go-getter. everything she wanted to do, she went after it and found a way to get it done. >> determination shattered when a gunman burst in. she was eating at restaurant with two friends friday night when she was shot in the stomach and killed. >> nohimi's cousin calls this a nightmare she is waiting to wake
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up from. >> it is like, this is really happening. and this is happening and there is nothing i can really do to bring her back. >> nohimi's mother gets tearful thinking about the dreams stolen from her daughter. >> she wanted to have a career and family. >> and at nohimi's school -- >> i, and the entire campus, are heart broken. >> classmates pay tribute. the basketball team holding a moment of silence before the game. aep cal state website is dark except for a light that still shines, a light for nohimi gonzalez. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company optum powers modern healthcare by connecting every part of it. so while the world keeps searching for healthier
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that's why i switched from u-verse to xfinity. now i can download my dvr recordings and take them anywhere. ready or not, here i come! (whispers) now hide-and-seek time can also be catch-up-on-my-shows time. here i come! can't find you anywhere! don't settle for u-verse. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. obama and other world leaders gathered in turkey for the g20 summit. this year's summit, not surprisingly, dominated by how to fight extremism in the wake of the deadly attacks in france.
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ron alan has a report. >> reporter: a moment of silence as president obama with the world's most powerful leaders honor the innocence massacred in paris. >> the attacks that took place in paris just a day and half ago. >>. >> reporter: the president vowing to stand shoulder to shoulder with the french, calling the attack a war and attack of killers. >> based on the twisted ideology is an attack not just on france, not just on turkey, but it is an attack on the civilized world. >> reporter: an economic summit dominated with addressing the global terror threat. a few hundred miles from the front line. turkey's boreder with syria. a moment so urgent mr. obama and vladimir putin huddled in the corner. two at odds of how to end
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syria's civil war. >> now following the attacks, intensifying the year-long strategy p, attacking ace ooice fris the air, attacking on the ground. the hope now that additional coalition partners will amp up the firepower which has largely been a u.s.-led air war. the french said they may invoke the nato's defense clause requiring all 28 members to respond, an attack on one, an attack on all. >> we are confident in the coming days an weeks working with the french we will intensify our strike to make clear there is no safe haven for the terrorist. >> reporter: the french said they will use every means necessary to destroy isis. tonight their warplanes targeted the city in syria that isis claims is its capital. the u.s. says it will strongly and aggressively support. chris? >> thanks. joining us is amann molhyldean.
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there is a fact that there is a limit to the effectiveness of air strikes and how many patargs you can reasonably hit, especially without increasing the misery of iraqivil civilian in one of the worst places in the world. what is left to do on isis? >> besides going after key members of the organization's leadership, the organization has demonstrated it has the ability to be resilient on the battlefield. we have seen over time that despite the air strikes that have been led by the -- and other countries, isis at one point was actually fighting on three different fronts. fighting against al qaeda affiliates and with peshmerga in
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iraq. this with the coalition bombing from above. so a lot of military analysts suggested that unless there is a ground component that is willing to go into these areas, after air strikes forces some of this territory and forces fighters in that territory to vacate, there's going to be very little that air strikes can do. there is no reliable ground commission to go in. now the u.s. is relying on targeting senior members of the organization it try to disrupt it and degrade it, as we saw a few days ago, jihadi john, one of the major propaganda voices and in the past several months going after the chief financier of the organization, an individual killed in the u.s. special operations raid. so unless you're going after it on the ground, it seems right now that the air strike has done little to defeat isis. >> you've reported on the region for years. you were in iraq.
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you've been around the sort of terrain there. i'm curious, is there a way to imagine an effective military campaign targeted at isis, particularly isis and syria, that has any end game once positions are held. that doesn't end up for instance strengthening assad. these seem like the questions that 15 months into this americans certainly quite haven't answered yet. >> well, you know, at the end of the day, the united states has demonstrated its reluctance to put forces on the ground. so too have the europeans. there are ideas floating around to address major issues. one it ease the humanitarian suffering of the syrian people and in doing so would require in the eyes of the turkish authorities to create safe havens inside of syria. which would start with imposing a no-fly zone over turkey -- sorry, over southern turkey,
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into syria, and then allow for the refugees in that area to have some safe space. but ultimately without the presence of ground -- little done to prevent isis from continuing its ability to adoap to air strikes. there is another country putting together a rapid air force, sunni arab countries in the thousands, with the help of the iraqi army, but that falls into the politics of the region. the broader politics of the region which is a major reason of paralysis when it comes with the big issue of syria. how much of the international community gets involve without ousting president assad and we now know because of support to the president as well as the iranian support and hezbollah fighters fighting on the ground that is not an easy thing to achieve and would only make the situation worse in terms of battlefield dynamics. >> all right. amann mohyeldin, thanks for
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joining me. beirut expanding isis reach in syria and iraq. we ceil will see if we are seeing a fundamental shift in isis, next. (vo) what does the world run on? a fundamental shift in isis, next. il will see if we are seei a fundamental shift in isis, next. l will see if we are seeina fundamental shift in isis, next. fundamental shift in isis, next. fundamental shift in isis, next. . who have the curiosity to look beyond the expected and the conviction to be in it for the long term. oppenheimerfunds believes that's the right way to invest... this big, bold, beautiful world.
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tonight, french warplanes struck multiple isis targets in syria, according to the french government. the campaign held city of raqqa comes two days after the deadly city attack killing 129 people. france had been ramping up its campaign against isis. we expect the french air campaign and western-aided fight against this group at this point will only intensify. as ate tack in paris and attack in beirut days earlier killed dozens appeared to show, islamic state expanded both its capabilities and reach far past sir why and iraq. joining me now, military analyst
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kevin baron. also msnbc terror analyst. director of middle east and africa research and analysis of flash point partners. let me start with you looef, we don't know what brought down the egyptian, russian airliner in sinai. but there are strong suspicion it was a bomb and isis bomb. if that proves to be the case, it appears in the span of two weeks, isis terrorist attacks aimed at civilians, with russian targets, shia, hezbollah, lebanese targets, and french targets. what is the possible strategic logic of essentially this group escalating against three different fairly powerful entities in the span of two weeks? >> isis has to stay relevant and on a global level. just like its aspirations are. whether a small-scale attack, or big-scale attack, it is trying to diversify areas.
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far beyond iraq and libya and syria. we are seeing french, russian, libya. we see them targeting saudi arabia, bangladesh, and attacks that seem to me that isis wants to create more operational cells worldwide to create it is truly being accepted on a global level. and that is head-butting with major superpowers. that keeps it relevant. >> you are speaking in terms of the perspective of isis, they need -- they are attempting to convert a fairly small significant number of people to the belief that they are indeed the sort of one true path for their believers and in order to do that these acts of violence are the means of essentially producing the facilitating that. >> absolutely. the means of violence, it is a way to reassert itself. and threats to france has been
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uttered by a jihadist spokesman saying we will take paris before we take rome, before we take liberia and so fon. we are going it take paris first. that is against paris intervening along side the united states. >> kevin, there is also the fact that isis, because they are essentially fighting dozens of different entity, just not in the syrian war but proxies past that from iran to nations in the west and gulf states et cetera. and they have to keep resupplying their fighters p. and what is your assessment of this state of their sort of military strength actually in the area they are physically controlling? >> well, that's good point to bring up. so you know, obama took a lot of criticism this week for saying that isis was contained right before paris happened. but when he is talking about the ground situation in iraq and syria, the president is right. isis did not go into baghdad.
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their territory did not expand. it contracted, held even for a while. partly because that's what american-led coalition wanted. they kept it down and stopped. they have not gone in with american ground troops. tried to build and very patient, right or wrong, no matter what you think of the strategy, that's their strategy. so isis has not expanded militarily. the state that it wanted to be has not happened there. so part of this what i think we are seeing is exactly what we've seen. outside the region to just good old-fashioned terrorism and wreaking havoc as far as they can. >> kevin is pointing to a connection between the two things that unlike al qaeda, because isis had territory it held and called itself essentially a cal fate and an actual state, they had divided priorities, right? what they were doing in terms of the area they were controlling and how they were fermenting attacks abroad. i've heard other analysts say that this shift might be the fact that they reached a
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territorial limit and now they are going to focus more on these attacks abroad. >> i don't completely adhere to that, simply because we are seeing isis in deep capture territory. not so long time ago they captured ramadi. captured palmera and now trying to expand into western syria instead of eastern syria. they are pushing forter toral control. but i think isis wants it carry thought global ambition. because it doesn't believe that califate should be limited. but by reasserting power overseas, saying we are not only on the defensive, we are also on the offensive. >> kevin, i think at this point a lot of people when they look at isis, from a wide spectrum of global folks, whether you're sunni, shia, christian or jewish or whether you live in beirut or
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france, you view these as essentially a monstrous entity, murderous one. there's a real request, the difference between okay they deserve to be destroyed and what it would actually take to destroy them. and that latter question that seems to be bedeviling anyone. >> exactly. the line came out of general alan in a defense article last summer. 2014. even then, it kind of felt like you know, you can't. every military leader in the u.s. for the last, i don't know, ten years, has said we can't kill our way to victory in iraq or in afghanistan or fill in the country. but you still have to attack and go after them. and as isis has metastasized, so has the military approach to them. it is good to point out, france wasn't involved in the air war in syria until purposely. they purposefully stayed out of syria. at the time it was libya that the french were pushing
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washington, the americans, to pay more attention to. what happened the last couple of months, the two meshed. for good reason. personally hand-picking someone to go to libya and start an isis branch there and that man was presumely killed yesterday in a u.s. air strike. a new development. the pentagon staying they had gone after a senior leader in libya. that followed a couple months after the french started to get involved slowly in the campaign in syria. the last thing i'll say, if i can quickly, pay attention it these air strikes and where they are hitting and going into raqqa. how much of this is precision targeted stuff. and how much of this is little bit looser with the worries of things like collateral damage. the very first time the pentagon serviced air strikes, they were hitting this building but not that building. trying to preserve as much as they could on the ground and not wreak havoc. and increased air war, starting after whoever they can find and
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places like raqqa could be very damaging and change things on the ground. >> we should note there are tens of thousands people living in raqqa. vast majority who are prisoners there and cannot get out and are under the control of isis. kevin, leif, thank you. >> good to see you. >> tonight, ramping up a campaign in syria. we good to paris. the latest news, next. but imagine earning it twice. you can with the citi double cash® card. it lets you earn cash back twice. once when you buy and again as you pay. it's cash back then cash back again. and that's a cash back win-win. the citi double cash card. the only card that lets you earn cash back twice on every purchase with 1% when you buy and 1% as you pay. with two ways to earn, it makes a lot of other cards seem one-sided. i can offer you no interest sittifor 24 months.oday thanks to the tools and help at, i know i have an 812 fico score, so i definitely qualify.
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we're back with the latest in the aftermath of the paris terrorist attacks today. france dropping 20 bombs targeting isis strong hold in the city of raqqa, self proo claimed capital of the isis state. cornep cornell, colonel, we were having
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discussions in this room and you were saying there were limits of what this can do and that was 15 months into an extensive campaign. >> and a lot hasn't changed, has it? unless you use nuclear weapons, real strategic weapons, only thing air strikes are good for is to pave the way for people on the ground it take over terrain. if you don't have anybody ready to do that, not only to take the terrain but to hold it, which is far more difficult, then it's merely just harassment. there's a lot of public relations involved. and though you might get a bad guy here and there, command and control place here and there and that sort of thing, ultimately it has tactical value but no long-term strategic value. >> i mean, it seems that the strategic route here of course is when you talk particularly about syria, not iraq, right? and in iraq there have been gains by forces like the iraqi army and in the kurdish areas of syria, peshmerga, there are
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areas with a multifaceted fighting happening, right? what would victory even mean in that kind of contest? >> the same thing as it does anywhere else. you got to get rid of the bad guys. once the bad guys are gone, control terrain so they don't come back. establish a government. take care of services and all the things you got to do in a real country. if you're not doing that, like i said, just harassing them. once you get rid of them, you're not taking over, they come back. which is exactly what's happened here. i think we don't -- to be honest with you, i don't think we have a strategy. we've got tactics. but we have no strategy. it is like having food but no cuisine. and we will continue doing what we're doing because we don't have the capability, the will, political will, to do what is really necessary and that doesn't mean it is a bad thing. what is really supposed to happen here is multinational regional force to do this on the ground. and they aren't going to do it because all of the actors there are fighting each other.
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>> and anyone particularly in the context of syria, there is a certain perception correct in terms of any, if you beat someone, you're benefiting someone else and you're likely not aligned with the person you're benefiting. >> we're not aligned with anyone, to be honest. anyone we could be aligned with, we don't like, and they don't like us. no, this won't end well. >> colonel jacobs, thanks you. >> you bet. >> joining us is chapman bell, nbc producer. chapman, it is nightfall there. i see the memorial in the background. looks like announcement coming across that areas of interest in paris will be open tomorrow? >> that's right, chris. there will be some areas open tomorrow. but as president hollande says, there would be three days of mourning and that mourning will continue as it has over the last couple of days. today we saw a memorial at notre
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dame cathedral here for the victims of this attack. as you see behind me, there are still people paying respects at multiple small memorials around paris where these attacks took place. however, there are attractions that will remain closed through this period of mourning and also areas of interest that will continue to remain closed or under close guard as this emergency action here takes place. an act of emergency. but what we will see it this, with the announcement of these air strikes today, you know, what will this do for the people of france? president hollande said he would call this an act of war. is this just the beginning of the retaliation and how will this affect the french people? the people of paris were remaining defiant today out on the streets. paying respects here.
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but what is believed to be a fire cracker sent people into panic. people leaving the place de le republique, the area here, the shrine for this attack and "charlie hebdo" attacks, for people to come together, in memory. it sent people running for cover. panic, actually. people diving into restaurants, under tables, really this city still remains in mourning but also there's a lot of tension still remaining as we also have been told that there could be a possible accomplice or another suspect out on the loose that they are hunting. chris? >> chapman bell in paris, thank you very much. joining me now is editor of the desk. you have been monitoring france and the u.s. targeting around refugees. what do you see? >> it is ugly. people in the aftermath of this who bl attack are letting their feelings be known.
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specifically on refugees. 4 million people spread across europe. i do want to back up a second. let's talk about the al qaeda play book here. seems like isis is taking a page right out of the play book of al qaeda. we saw bombings of shia targets, then sunni targets. this is what isis is trying to do in europe. we heard after "charlie hebdo," the "charlie hebdo" attack, quote muslims in the west will find them self between one of two choices. we will destroy the gray area of skoe existence between muslims and the west. that's what we are seeing play out. >> the gray area of coexistence. meaning isis is strategic goal is to create a situation in which muslims in france or europe or belgium don't feel they can be fully themselves and produce the backlash that many fear may be coming. >> and to be proven right. so isis tells muslims across europe, police will come and
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rage your neighborhoods, treat you differently and single you out. there is a disaster across paris. that's what happened. couple that with what they are telling people of syria. you mentioned there hundreds of thousands of people stuck in raqqa and cannot leave. they are saying to those people, see, indiscriminate bombings against you civilians. >> we are also -- we've gotten this news that one of the men who carried out the attack, and it sounds like he may have come through one of the channels through which refugees were coming through. i was reminded of osama bin laden. the reporting about him specifically selecting saudis, essentially to carry out 9/11, because he wanted to create the most geo-political strain. you wonder if there is something at play like this here. >> yeah, driving that wedge. we saw that after 9/11. especially here in the new york city area. talk about saudi arabia. this is what isis is doing. there is some he question still as to whether or not that passport was planted there. and whether or not it was authentic p. this is a group we've got to
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keep remembering that is so incredibly savvy on social media. >> all right, cal perry, thank you very much. presidential candidates weighing in on friday's attacks in paris. clashing over whether america is now in a fight against quote radical islam. where bob and olivia will join me for analysis next. when the flu hits, it's a really big deal. the aches. the chills. the fever. an even bigger deal? everything you miss out on... family pizza night. the big game. or date night. why lose out to the flu any longer than you have to? prescription tamiflu can help you get better 1.3 days faster. that's 30% sooner. call your doctor right away. and attack the flu virus at its source with prescription tamiflu. tamiflu is fda approved to treat the flu in people 2 weeks and older whose flu symptoms started within the last two days. before taking tamiflu tell your doctor if you're pregnant, nursing have serious health conditions, or take other medicines.
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whether america is at war with radical islam. >> do you agree with that characterization? >> i don't think we are at war with islam.
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i don't think we are at war with all muslims. we are at war with jihadists. >> he said radical islam. is that a phrase you don't -- >> i think you can talk about islamists who are also clearly jihadists, but it's not helpful to make the case that senator sanders was making that i agree with. we have to reach out to the muslim countries and have them be part of our coalition. >> you saw secretary clinton did not want to use the word radical islam, your response. >> i don't understand it. that is like say we are not at war with nazis. we are at war with radical islam. with an interpretation of islam by a significant number of people around the world who they believe justifies them in killing those who don't agree
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with their ideology. this is a clash of civilizations. as i said earlier this week there's no middle ground on this. either they win or we win. >> joining me the political reporter for the "washington post," political correspondent with "the daily beast." the idea of calling it radical islam is central plank in a foreign policy struck me as weird. i think we will see more of that. >> we are seeing many republican contenders striking a hawkish tone. there's hope among the seasoned candidates running for the republican nomination the party could turn away from the outsiders, the front runners, trump and carson and back toward jeb bush, marco rubio, john kasich, but it is not clear the base is ready to do that. >> i want to play this clip from "meet the press" where chuck todd asks about that issue. >> would you trust donald trump
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or ben carson as commander in chief right now? >> i don't know. the words that i hear them speaking give me concern. that's why we have campaigns, chuck. as you know, everybody will have a chance to lay out their visions. i'm more concerned about hillary clinton thinking the united states doesn't have a leadership role in this. >> olivia, do you believe jeb bush when he says that he does essentially by ooh mission say he trusts them to be commander? >> i don't think so at all. i don't think the majority of republican candidates would trust donald trump or ben carson to lead in a moment of crisis, to lead in the fight against isis. i think he is sort of lying when he says that. i think he thinks they are amateurs, just too risky and is hoping by this crisis becoming what it is right now with paris being attacked that people will be scared by the idea of donald trump being in charge or ben carson being in charge and look towards the adults in the race
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like him -- he's not hoping this, of course, but marco rubio or ted cruz. >> for all of the headachish rhetoric, or the rhetoric, the militaryistic rhetoric, about clash of civilizations and this helpic vision of what the "war on terror" means in the bush administration we see being reprised. it is striking there is one candidate calling for american ground troops to be deployed. that is lindsey graham and he's not polling enough to make the undercard debate. that says something maybe about what the gop primary appetite is actually for another war in the middle east. >> it's an important point. when i'm on the campaign trail and i encounter republican voters, they are still grappling with the president george w. bush legacy. there's not an immediate move toward the hawkish wing when it comes to episodes like we saw in paris. when you look at trump's
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important policy he's been leading the race for months. he wants a stronger military, okay with increased spending on that front. when it comes to intervention abroad, he represents a reluctant side of the republican party. >> that point is key. the sweet spot is as bellicose as possible. we will destroy him and if we need to bomb him and it will make your head spin and all of that, but actually, operationally, in a dhaunt is war weary, even a gop electorate that isn't thrilled to hear the idea of troop deployments to keep that ratcheted back. >> donald trump's foreign policy when you look at it is closer to rand paul's than hillary clinton's. it is dubbish as robert said and he is sdept call of toppling stek secular dictators which is something we have been hearing rand paul, an intervention skeptic been saying the last year. i think you are right. the rhetoric is bombastic.
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it's we're going to kill him. do everything we can to stop the bad guys but in reality they are reluctant to put forth a plan that would put boots on the ground. >> that's win consistent theme when you press them for a concrete solution. no one sounds particularly adept baze the solution isn't particularly clear. >> a lot of these campaigns -- i checked in with them over the weekend with -- they said they are going to wait and see how france and nato responds. if they don't need boots on the ground that is okay with the campaigns. they will watch carefully how it unfolds. >> thank you for joining me tonight. there will be much more of nbc's coverage of the attacks in paris throughout the night. i will be back at 8 p.m. tomorrow night along with chris hayes. harry smith continues our coverage here on msnbc. stay with us.
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