tv MSNBC Live With Kate Snow MSNBC November 16, 2015 12:00pm-2:01pm PST
top of the 3:00 hour here on the east coast. good day once again from new york. i'm brian williams at msnbc headquarters. kate snow standing by to take you for the next two hours of our coverage. but first, we wanted to get you caught up on the news at this hour. we'll bring in veteran journalist christopher dickey. these days of "the daily beast" and american living in paris for a long, long time now. christopher, today the president, president hollande of france, said terrorism will be defeated. that the nation was, indeed, at
war. he said terrorism will not defeat us. we will defeat it. what's war going to look like in france and what's this war going to look like to americans? >> well, you know, the second question i think is really the most important. i think people here are feeling defiant. scared i think a lot of them but defiant. i think that will last for a while. and i think that they are encouraged to see the level of military action that france has taken. but france is already stretched thin. i think that people don't understand just how many places france is destroyed its troops in really very doing you circumstances. most obvious being mali. a country that was on the verge of being taken over by al qaeda until france and a matter of days destroyed enough forces to stop the takeover of the capital of mali a couple of years ago.
so it's stretched thin. and it's not going to be able to do the kind of work in syria, militarily, from the air, much less on the ground, unless it has a lot of support from the united states and its nato allies and so far we haven't been seeing any real indication that that's going to be forthcoming. so i think the big question now is, how strong is the alliance? whether it's the informal alliance called the coalition or the formal one called nato. is that coming into play and we don't know the answer to that yet. >> because the public is waiting and wanting very badly to see activity, we must say that france has moved quickly militarily with the bombing sorties yesterday and today and all the raids in the last 24 hours. something like 160 different raids with many different
arrests. >> well, they have got to do that. i think that if they have been embarrassed several times in the last year including with the "charlie hebdo" affair where there were people that were on the radar of french intelligence services and police as jihadists, as people suspected of plotting terrorist activities, but they couldn't prove anything and then they let those people somehow slip under the radar. and when they reemerged they carried out the "charlie hebdo" massacres, the killing at the kosher supermarket and now we see what's happened here on friday night. so i think that they feel that they have to round up a hell of a lot of people, anybody that's even vaguely suspect in order to question them and certainly with the idea of intimidating them, as well, and to show they're taking action. >> christopher in paris tonight, we want to bring in our chief foreign correspondent richard
engel. richard, to you, we need an update on the manhunt, this criminal investigation that's still going on in france. and also, on the subject of refugees. president obama today warned don't equate the refugees with terrorism. problem is, of course, that's already under way. >> reporter: the problem is isis linked the refugee trail to terrorism. we've been able to confirm that one of the attackers, a man identified by his fingerprint, well that same fingerprint showed up in greece. so clearly the same individual. he was carrying a passport, a passport that was found not far from one of the bodies. it's unclear if this -- the passport is real. but the fingerprints apparently
was real so that is the concern is about that this will -- identify the movement of the right wing. >> richard engel in paris, secretary kerry has just landed and arrived at the u.s. embassy in paris. he is speaking at a hastily set up lectern there in front of the elements of the media. let's listen in. >> they kill shia because they are shia and on. they rape and torture and pillage and call it the will of god. they are, in fact, psychopathic monsters. and there is nothing, nothing civilized about them. so this is not a case of one civilization pitted against another. this is a battle between civilization itself and bar barism and fascism.
both at the same time. and that is why every single nation state in the region and around the world is opposed to daesh. and so, the violence, the terror, the senseless murder of 132 people and injuring hundreds more including 4 americans, this is an assault not just on france but coming on the heels of brutal attacks in lebanon, iraq and elsewhere. it is an assault on our collective sense of reason and purpose. an attack on civility itself. and i want to thank the men and women who bravely reported to the scene of the attacks and those who continued to work around the clock to heal the injured, restore calm and provide relief. among those who died on friday night was an american student,
nohemi gonzalez. she had come to paris for the same reasons that so many americans do and have for centuries. to expand her horizons, enrich her education and experience the magic of this city. as one of her former classmates put it, nohemi's death, the world lost such a beautiful, shining light. now i understand the sadness of those who knew nohemi and other victims. the world isdy min initialled by their deaths and no words of comfort or sorrow or resolve can change that. we don't have the power to bring them back. so we must do instead what is within our power. and that begins with a sense of fierce solidarity among good and decent people everywhere. with the vow that we will never
be intimidated by terrorists. and with a promise that we will never allow these murderers to achieve their vile aims. no one should doubt that the light still shines in the city of light. and that darkness will not ever, never overpower it. as history records, paris has known even darker moments. and it has overcome them. the people of paris joined by their friends, partners and family across the globe will stand up for and live by the values that light the world. the underlying principles that form the backbone of our laws and the essence of our common humanity. the pursuit of justice and the embrace of peace. the belief in the dignity and the worth and the rights of every human being.
libete, emerite. we do so as a reminder to the brave people of france that your american sisters and brothers will stand with you shoulder to shoulder as we have stood together throughout history. tonight we are all parisians and as the old motto of this resilient city said and as parisians have said in recent days -- buffeted but not sunk. we will not let our sorrow for the loss of life overcome us. we will not lose sight of all
the good we are working together to do. we will not change our course or cancel our plans. including our plans to come together in paris later this month for the u.n. climate conference. and president obama told me today how much he looks forward to being here, being part of that important moment. ultimately, we will defeat daesh and all who share their despicable ideology. and we are on the course to do so. we will continue, also, to show compassion to those who seek refuge from the violence that the terrorists engender. we'll fight to ensure that the world that our children inherit is richer in love and shorter on hate. we will work to bring light nohemi gonzalez, a beautiful shining light to areas and
places that are couched in darkness. that's our responsibility. that's our duty. and we will do our duty side by side and we will prevail. [ speaking foreign language ] >> translator: it's a despicable -- to show compassion for those who are recused, fleeing the violence caused by the terrorists. we will fight to leave our children a world that will be more rich with love and less full with hate. like nohemi gonzalez, we will shine in the darkness with a beautiful sun. that is our task and we are going to assume it together.
and we will prevail. thank you for your presence here. long live france and the friendship with the united states. >> our french-speaking secretary of state admiring the lights on the u.s. embassy there. the french more than just about any other nationality plays such a high premium on foreigners, especially americans, speaking french while there, at least trying to show, showing the effort. secretary of state has publicly spoken french before. he gave the most strong denounced isis and very strong terms to the point of referring to it as you might have heard in his remarks as daesh, the absence of the term isis. in effect, not to speak the name of the terrorist group here.
and that is the very latest from the secretary of state who's landed, was greeted by the ambassador. again, repeated the president's plans to go ahead with the climate summit that's coming to paris later on this month. richard engel who was watching and listening with us. richard, we had to hastily move to the secretary of state before we could finish out with you on the manhunt that's going on right now for all those who were associates of those who committed suicide in the commission of terrorism. >> reporter: well, secretary kerry said the lights are still shining here in the city of light. but there is also a massive manhunt going on across this country and really across europe. the focus right now is in france but also in belgium because it seems that the logistical part of this operation was launched
in belgium. that the weapons may have come from belgium. the car the attackers used rented in belgium and according to the french president the master mind of this attack was a belgian militant that featured prominently in isis propaganda and believed to have been or may still be in syria. that he organized the attack. so it was ordered in syria. organized logistically in bell jam and then executed with brutal consequences here in france. not sure how many attackers or accomplices were involved. french authorities rolling out information piecemeal. moelsly through anonymous sources. some from french prosecutors. we have some names. they fit a consistent profile of mostly north african. muslims. not all of them were radical in
the beginning but who became radicalized. at least one. a petty criminal who was seen in a youtube rap video. which is not, frankly, very dissimilar from the profiles we have seen of other foreign fighters. foreign fighters from the uk, foreign fighters also from this country. people who are angry, felt disenfranchised, humiliated and went to syria or connected with isis online. and you mentioned daesh, that is the arabic acronym for isis and also an insulting term so by the secretary of state calling it daesh he is using a term that isis specifically detests. in isis areas, if citizens use the word daesh they're lashed. or even worse. >> richard engel in paris for us tonight, thanks. and prior to hearing from the secretary of state we were talking with richard about the refugee issue, the president,
president obama today at the g20 summit so clearly coming out to say don't equate the refugee issue with terrorism. though as richard pointed out earlier that, of course, is already happening as we see the president at the summit. as we said, kate snow on hand to take us through the next two hours of our live coverage. kate, beginning with this issue of refugees. >> yes. brian, thanks. good afternoon. it's because this is become a real political issue just in the span of hours, just in the last few minutes while listening to secretary kerry speak we heard from the governor of wisconsin and then from another democratic governor speaking out. so it's very quickly becoming a political issue. i want to go to capitol hill. our frank thorpe covers capitol hill for us. this has become every candidate for 2016 sending in their thoughts about the refugee situation and a number of governors now saying including
at least one democrat raising questions about whether they want to accept refugees. >> yeah. it's quickly becoming a political flashpoint. for three different phases here. you have the states who are speaking up, you have 2016ers particularly republicans who are speaking out and congressmen, me believes of congress, who are asking for them to act. you have over a dozen governors, state governors, who have come out saying that they'll reject requests to have syrian refugees placed in their states. the state department is currently looking at the legality of the claims but you have to remember over the last four years that the syrian conflict has been going on, they have had about 1,800 syrian refugees come to the united states and what the obama administration is asking for is to ramp that up considerably. bringing 10,000 syrian refugees to the united states in 2016. so you also have the 2016 republicans calling on not only states but members of congress
to stop funding to bring these refugees back to the united states. ben carson sending a letter to house speaker paul ryan today and senate majority leader mitch mcconnell saying you must end public funding for the refugees coming back to the united states. governor mike huckabee sending out a strongly worded tweet saying if paul ryan won't reject the refugees coming to the united states, he should step down. paul ryan said in an interview today, a radio interview, that he was going to look at the issue, see what they can do legislateively, send the issue to the relevant committees but you have the chairman of the house homeland security committee michael mccall saying that they should -- the obama administration should halt all the refugees from syria coming to the united states until they're able to figure out an adequate way to vet all of these refugees. not to mention on thursday we'll be having a committee hearing, first committee hearing on the issue since the paris attacks. kate? >> frank thorpe on capitol hill.
let's go down the road to peter alexander covering the white house for us. peter, you are in the washington bureau today. how's the white house responding the all of these calls to limit the number of refugees who are indeed in some cases asking to stop the number of refugees coming from syria to the u.s.? >> the president's remarks today from turkey, he was at times defiant. at times defensive. one of the points that he clearly took issue with, in fact, without a question being asked of him, he concluded by saying that he did not want the refugees to be associated in direct connection with the idea of terrorism. that was the colleague richard engel said that's being done by the terrorists themselves as new evidence shows fingerprints from one of the attackers connects back to greece where it's presumed this individual entered into europe after fleeing syria right now. but what was sort of striking today i think more broadly is a juxtaposition of the french president with a call to arms and same time you have the
american president speaking from the g20 summit in effect cown sulting restraint and while restraint may prove to be the wise course forward, the wise path forward, it is a politically challenging position for the president to be in right now given there's so much anger i think and resolve not just obviously in france but here among americans who want to see real action taken. here was one of the president's statements from earlier today as he addressed what in effect is the challenge of trying to bomb an idea and said the challenge exists among other reasons because of the growth of isis through social media. take a listen. >> these are killers. with fantasies of glory who are very savvy when it comes to social media. and are able to infiltrate the minds of not just iraqis or syrians but disaffected
individuals around the world. and when they activate those individuals, those individuals can do a lot of damage. >> so the key word today may be intensification of america's efforts to try to attack these individuals, those who are trying to cause harm to the u.s., to france and to others right now. the administration effectively saying that we are just going to keep doing what we have been doing and going to do it better, stronger and harder. but backing off pressure to go ahead with the ground war or the addition of substantial number of american ground troops in syria right now despite the fact there are only 50 special ops there right now saying it would set an unsustainable precedent, kate, saying if we were to do that what if there's an attack from yemen and north africa and a precedent we couldn't continue. >> just to ask you about the language we heard from john kerry, from the secretary of state standing outside the u.s. embassy, it was a bit more
strident taking the remarks at the top of the hour, calling isis psychopathic monsters and said there's nothing -- and rubio is calling it a clash of civilizations and kerry saying, no, this is not a clash of civilizations. >> what struck me is i think the tone we heard from the secretary of state john kerry in the last five minutes from the u.s. embassy in par sis a tone of americans and frankly much of the world looking for from the president of the united states earlier today and the precedent, the tone presented sort of manifested what critics hate about this president but what loyalists love, the sort of more perhaps thoughtful language and not as strident as criticless would want to hear. i think this sort of got to the heart of that. if you watch this president over the course of the last seven years, he today was very much
the same man we saw at the beginning of his presidency, a man who is inclined not to be over reactive to crisis and in effect i think a lot of americans want to see more reaction today. >> peter alexander in washington, thank you. straight ahead, how the terror attacks in paris are changing the u.s. response to isis militarily. >> when i heard it was going upstairs, i -- i just thought that it was -- it was up there. so i just -- i just took my chance. likes to keep it simple. real simple. i'm talking easy like-a- walk-in-the-park, nothing-to-worry-about, man-that-feels-good simple. quicksilver earns you unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. it's a simple question. what's in your wallet? before i had the shooting, these feet grew up in a family diabetic of boys...
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this as president obama said today that u.s. will share more of its intelligence with france about isis. the president also saying the military would step up the current strategy of air strikes and military advisers on the ground. >> on the military front, we are continuing to accelerate what we do. as with our partner that is are effective, we work with them more closely and authorized more special forces on the ground to be able to improve that coordination. >> nbc's chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski is with me now. jim, accelerate things, the strategy will change, when's that look like? >> reporter: well, much of it was already on the drawing table and in process. well before the terrorist attacks in paris last friday. now, according to u.s. officials, the air strikes by french war planes on both sunday
and again today on monday were clearly retaliatory strikes, they went after isis targets around the defacto capital there in syria. and in and around raqqa. now, that's -- that is clearly retaliatory because most of the air strikes conducted by french in terms of the coalition air strikes in both iraq and syria have been conducted in iraq up to this point. so the americans clearly stepped aside and let france show its strength and power against isis over the past couple of days. but they had already planned increase at air strikes in syria because two waves of f-15s had already arrived a second wave on thursday, the day before the strikes and they're also planning to provide additional air cover to ground troops in -- that are fighting in syria, a-10
warthogs and now a c-130 specter gunship also in the battle for the first time today. so again, much of the plans as president obama talked about a minute ago accelerating the pace and already on the drawing boards but again the french air strikes in syria were clearly retaliatory strikes. kate? >> jim miklaszewski at the pentagon, thank you so much. let's bring in kevin barren with defense one and national security and military analyst and shane harris who's senior intelligence analyst for "the daily beast." let's start with you, kevin. in terms of intelligence sharing and the president talked about greater efforts for intelligence sharing, when's that look like? >> well, out of the pentagon today that the u.s. was going to share military and non-military intelligence with the french to the full extent of policy. this is the u.s.' way of publicly saying we'll give them everything they need and link
the operations more publicly. as mick said, the french have been participating in the air war over iraq and they have done a lot of work, mali, north africa. shane knows a lot about this. syria was kind of new. the french were focused on libya. so now them getting into syria means they need to know more on the ground and the americans are more versed there coming to what happened in paris and breaking out all of the intelligence, the forensic work to be done in the aftermath, the americans are going to want to know everything the french know. >> shane, it would seem like the french didn't know much about these attacks ahead of time, the soft targets, a nightclub, restaurants, outside of a soccer stadium. what can be done to better increase the level of intelligence when we're talking about such soft targets? >> yeah. well the short answer is it's very, very difficult to do that in an open society. these are not hard targets like airports or are official buildings where people are screened before they go into them.
short of fences around the places and screening people walking around in the street there's actually very little you can do to protect them. what's required is an increase in intelligence and better information analysis and sharing. but look. these guys are going to get through sometimes and absolutely never a perfect system. there are plots to foil, some that get through. the question here i think is why are some of the individuals who were involved and were known to french security services, why weren't they higher on the radar? what broke down that these individuals were not spotted? >> kevin, when we talk about france and mick just said this is really a renewed effort to send in those air strikes today and yesterday, it's retaliatory, what were they doing before friday in terms of the fight against isis militarily and how do you see that changing now? >> well, again, the french had been involved in air strikes in iraq but not over syria. and had focused earlier already on north africa. really dating back to even libya
and taking out gadhafi back then. a lot of it is cultural or geographical. the french defense minister said this summer made a point here in washington that libya was closer, that when you look at the refugee crisis, most of the world was watching people coming from syria. they were concerned of fighters being able to come through libya just because of its proximity to paris. well, that's clearly changed. so what france can add to the fight is what you're seeing already, more air strikes without the ground war those critics want. that's what you will see and including deployment of the aircraft carrier. >> all right. kevin, shane, thank you so much for being with us. appreciate it. a soccer match between the french and english national teams is planning ahead as planned tomorrow in london according to the police. armed officers will be patrolling around the stadium where that match is happening. france was playing germany's national team on friday when the three explosions rocked the area
near the stadium. ron mott is following the story from london and prince william is also expected to be among the tens of thousands at the game, ron. that's got to be raising alarms a little bit and really increasing security threats. >> right. any time any member of the royal family heads out there's a security detail in line and so tomorrow is no exception. this is going to be a big security event for what they call an international friendly. this game is essentially an exhe bigs and usually a big deal between the two rival countries, england and france and not everyone is on board tomorrow. if you checked with social media, a lot of people questioning the wisdom of doing this in light of what happened four days ago in paris and hearing now that even some of the french players themselves were never consulted when they were making discussions this weekend about whether the match should go ahead. one of the midfielders for france lost a cousin on friday
night and the match will go ahead tomorrow night in london and armed guards checking and patrolling around the stadium as well as the major transit depots here in town and just getting around in the evening rush is going to be quite a challenge tomorrow night but this security will be tight and they're telling people don't bring bags to the game and get there super early taking you longer to get to the seat than usual. >> all right. thanks so much. security also being ramped up here at home at his press conference earlier today, president obama discussed the difficulty of detecting home grown terrorist plots. >> we have seen the possibility of terrorist attacks on our soil. there is the boston marathon bombers. obviously it did not result in the scale of death that we saw in paris. but, you know, that was÷÷÷÷÷÷
kate? >> all right. adam, we'll be talking about playstation later. thanks so much, adam. also the texas governor and tell you hold a press conference and bringing it to you live. the developments refocusing the 2016 campaign trail on defense and national security. after the break, republican candidate carly fiorina will join us with o her plan to counr isis. and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost. now try new boost® compact and 100 calories. can a a subconscious. mind? a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought.
once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a fun side to every drive. nissan. innovation that excites. the paris attacks have refocused the 2016 campaign on national security with several republican candidates today kritizing the president's handling of the war against isis. >> we cannot defeat radical islamic terrorism as long as we have a president unwilling to even utter those words. >> this is the war of our time. and we cannot do this by leading from behind. >> if i were president, we
probably wouldn't be in the problems that we have right now because it's incredible. we have an attack and then all of a sudden we bomb all these sites. why didn't we bomb the sites before? >> joining me now on the phone from plymouth, new hampshire, 2016 presidential candidate carly fiorina. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me, kate. >> happy to have you. you heard the president earlier today, i'm sure. he said it seems the only thing gop candidates are doing is talking as if they're tough. what is your response? >> i found the president's comments today really disheartening. first of all, he has not said what needs to be said. let's just begin with his comments on friday morning when he inexplicably said that isis was contained. it is clearly not contained. let us also remember that president obama has been unwilling to say what president obama hollande has said, what prime minister david cameron has said. isis is at war with us and we
must wage a war and win against them. our president is not willing to say this. and you cannot lead from behind. >> do you support putting more american military personnel on the ground in iraq and syria, ground forces and if so can you be specific? how many are we talking about? >> well you see, kate, the way you asked that question is the false choice president obama has convinced the american media and the people of. if you don't agree with what he's doing, the only option is tens of thousands of boots on the ground. it is false. our allies in that region who are fighting isis as we speak, the jordanians, the kuwaitis, the egyptians, the kurds, the turks, every single one of those nations asked us for specific support. we haven't provided it. i will. sharing intelligence or more aggressive bombing campaigns or special ops troops on the ground or weapons and materiel.
that's what's asked for. let's start by showing support and resolve and leadership with our allies who are fighting isis on the ground. >> so to be specific, i'm sorry, so to be specific, what would your -- how would your plan and policy differ from what the president then the obama administration is doing now? >> let's just start with the fact that the bombing campaign that president obama apparently approved for today should have been going on with that intensity over the last 12 to 15 months. let's just start with the fact that king abdullah of jordan was here 18 months ago asking for bombs and materiel. we haven't provided it i would. the kurds asking us to arm them for three long years. we haven't. start with the fact the egyptians asked us to share intelligence. we are not. i will. all of these things have been asked for. all of these things can be done. we could be having a much more effective bombing campaign.
we are not. as usual, president obama is too little too late. and he and hillary clinton share in the reality that they exited iraq in 2011 after declaring victory, precipitously withdrew every troop giving up the hard fought gains for political expediency. thus giving isis vast swaths of territory to occupy so they now have a caliphate. that is what they call it. from which to operate. >> i want to play another piece of sound from the president and ask for your response. you're among the candidates calling far no-fly zone in syria. most of the republican field is calling for that, as well. hillary clinton supports that, too. the president today said it's counter productive. i want to play what he says. >> it would be counter productive to take those steps in part because isil does not have planes. so the attacks are on the
ground. the bulk of the deaths occurring in syria, for example, have come about not because of regime bombing but because of on the ground casualties. >> the president say there is's no point in having a no-fly zone. you say? >> well, first of all, what he just said is flatly not true. apparently he is -- has forgotten that the syrian regime, bashar al assad inflicted incredible damage on the civilian population from the air. the purpose of the no-fly zone, of course, is to contain the syrian regime, something that obama said several weeks ago he still cared about. he perhaps has forgotten that the russians are in syria and that while they said they were going in to defeat isis clearly they're in syria at the request of iran and they are propping up bashar al assad at the request of iran. by the way, our allies in the
region most of whom i know are allies in the region are exceedingly concerned, not just by isis. they're exceedingly concerned by the growing strength and alliance between russia and iran. because iran wants very much to become the leading regional henchman in the area. russia is helping them and this administration rolled over to iran as well. not just in the deal but since this terrible nuclear deal was struck with iran. >> can i ask about refugees before i let you go? you said you're angry the president in your words unilaterally decided to accept syrian refugees. i wonder if you would in any circumstance accept syrian refugees here in america. and number two, jeb bush said today that he makes a distinction between christians and muslim refugees. and that he would give priority to christians. i wonder your take on that. >> i have said consistently that we cannot let refugees in this country unless we know who they
are. we must have a process for vetting them. wherever they come from, and whoever they are. and we don't. this administration has all but admitted that it really cannot determine the intentions of refugees who are coming from syria. and cannot really determine who they are. and the sad truth is that while obama talks about women and children, the reality is most of the refugees pouring in to europe are able bodied young men. we need to know who these people are and if we cannot adequately vet them then we cannot permit them to come into this country. period. the former deputy director of the cia, a man i worked with chairing the advisory board at the cia, said yesterday on television that we have known for some years that isis is looking to build an operational attack capability in europe. it appears they have. and that they're looking to build an operational attack capability in the united states.
knowing that, we cannot permit refugees to come into this country unless we can vet them and we cannot. >> carly fiorina on the phone with us from plymouth, new hampshire, out on the campaign trail, thank you for being with us. >> thank you, kate. >> all right. steve kornacki is with me here in the studio listening to the interview. that is hardline view shared by a number of republican presidential candidates and a lot of them speaking out today. >> i guess two things jumped out at me. asking her about refugees, this is quickly become the consensus position on the republican side. we see this with governors today saying they're against the resettlement policy of the administration wayne the candidates now trying to distinguish with how to do this and opposed to the program. that seems uniform. i did find -- troops and boots 0 ground, combat isis in syria in iraq. that right now there's some daylight between her maybe and the other republican candidates and this morning donald trump on "morning joe" saying he would be
willing to commit 10,000. mitt romney on "today" show talked about declaring war on isis and willing to commit ground forces and lindsay graham says he has a plan to involve ground troops. she talked about options and support the allies in the region. >> and exactly because that politics of this issue change dramatically with large number of ground troops over there. you have to say president obama has not done enough, that's something that polls very well and this administration's been weak coming to confronting the stuff, that polls very well. obama's overall handling of foreign policy, does not get high marks for two years and when the discussion shifts, she's correct and shifts the discussion to the alternative is 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 ground troops the republicans aren't on sturdy ground. but it is interesting. there are some republican candidates increasingly who are saying, yes, we need to look at
ground troops. >> all right. thank you for being with us. our coverage of the terror in paris continues with a dive into how these terrorists are communicating, largely under the radar, and what sony's playstation has to do with it. . how are they communicating under the radar and what sony playstation has to do with it. how you doing? hey! how are you? where are we watching the game? you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima.
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following the deadly terror attacks in paris, investigators are working to figure out exactly how isis terrorists communicate around the world. intelligence officials tell nbc news isis is using everything from the deep web to video games -- yes, video games -- to plot attacks. jeff rosson has been looking into that angle of the story. >> reporter: intelligence sources tell nbc news the french were caught completely off guard. their agencies seriously weak at detecting terrorist chatter. today investigators are homing in on the gaming system,
playstation 4. this accused isis militant now in jail for downloading bomb plans on his ps 4. so did isis use it to plan the terror attacks too? just days ago the interior minister spoke at a political forum. >> the most difficult communication is the playstation 4. >> why? >> you can hide in plain site. communicate on your plans, and then dissipate and it's gone. >> i'm on a playstation right now, inside of a game. i'm connected directly to the internet, which means, i can play with anybody anywhere in the world privately. and that's not all. you can text on the playstation too. my producer stephanie is on a playstation in another section of the building.
hi, stephanie. >> hey, jeff. >> tell me how it works. >> i'll send you a message. hi, jeff, how are you? and this doesn't go through your phone company. there it is, sent. >> i just got it. it's that simple. >> sony saying we take our responsibilities to protect users extremely seriously. we are committed to taking appropriate actions. and experts say it's not just playstations. terrorist can choose from any of the private messaging apps out there, whatsapp, signal. >> and also is this one called telephone. you hit new secret chat, click on this self-destruct timer, and you said it to have my message self-destruct in five seconds, and it's done. i write, hi, stephanie. >> got it. >> count it down, five, four,
three, two, one. >> it's gone. >> they encrypt end to end, which means only the terrorist can see this, they self-destruct. >> what's the take-away? what needs to change? >> increased information sharing across the world. >> i was asking you questions as the piece was running. it's so fascinating. if you're two people writing to each other while playing playstation, the government cannot see that? >> it's not encrypted, but the government would have to know the person they're looking for, what game they're playing, the time of the meet-up. it's private because you have to be innovatvited to the game. if anybody else is in there listening, it automatically comes up. >> so it's not like the phone company that keeps and stores messages and gives them over when the fbi comes calling. >> when you shut off the playstation, it's in the ether,
it's absolutely gone. >> what about the apps? >> they're encrypted point to point. so terrorist to terrorist or regular to regular person. when you set a self-destruct, it does self-destruct. not like with a text message where the phone company has a record of it. this is gone when it's gone. >> jeff, thanks for being with us. our coverage of the terror attacks in paris continue at the top of the hour. with what makes belgium such a hotbed for terror. we'll hear from a former counteroperative who was recruited by isis, how he survived, what he learned, and how he is helping the coalition's response now. and the conviction to be in it for the long term. oppenheimerfunds believes that's the right way to invest... ...in this big, bold, beautiful world.
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scene in terms of breaking news on this day when the french president declared that nation at war yet again and said terrorism will not defeat us. we will, in effect, defeat terrorism. cal perry is here with us because we are in possession of some new exclusive video showing the end of the raid at the bataclan, the music venue in paris. >> brian, you will remember very well as we covered this as it unfolded. people inside the theater trying to communicate with anti-terror forces outside. here comes new exclusive video that we have obtained, you can see there the anti-terror police moving in on the theater. this raid took about 20 minutes to breach and then to clear. the clearing of the theater was very difficult. the concern on the part of anti-terror forces was that the theater could have been rigged with more explosives. that of course slowed down their
progress. as we watch this video, you can see the breach there is the the front of the building. what you're not seeing is that a lot of the patrons who were there in the theater were fleeing out the back. that is something that was very violent at the time. also important to node here, brian, and you know this better than anyone, the emergency responders there, standing by as a secondary force to deal with the wounded. there was nearly 100 people critically wounded and as is always the case in these horrifying incidences, time is critical to get the wounded to the hospital as quickly as possible. >> people saw patrons coming out with their hands up. in that instance, it's critical to know friend from foe. they did not yet know when they would breach the inside that most of the attackers would kill themselves, a horrible scene and we really couldn't believe it
that not when we were told upwards of a hundred casualties from inside that venue. cal, thank you very much. richard lui is in paris for us with an update on the manhunt from there. richard? >> brian, before we get to the manhunt, you were talking about the bataclan theater. right over my shoulder, about a block down that way, today is really a symbol that perhaps we're different on this day. because up until sunday, there were numbers on the ground as the investigators and forensics team was still locking all the information. a resident who lived across the street told me, he could not feel like he was coming home. back to the investigation, several developments to talk about. first off, they have a mastermind, somebody that they believe was organizing what happened on that friday night here right behind me and five other sites in the city. 27 years old, a belgian, born of
immigrants. known as being charismatic and fun-loving, but something changed. also new today, we have more nom on the eighth individual that was associated with the attack that happened here in paris. we're talking about samad. and he, 26 years old, a french national, we have information that he's made his way outside of the country. that is also ongoing. when we look at some of the activity sets, historic address today to his congress by francois hollande. they had over 160 anti-terror raids and 23 detained. also in that address, he announced 5,000 more individuals that will be asigned over the next two years, military and law enforcement, this in addition to the 1,500 after the "charlie hebdo" attacks just in january. all of that happening, as you know, today at noon.
they had that moment of silence. and i was there at the place de la republique. when i was there, everybody from around the area gathered to that plaza and they were quiet. and then they left. and one last point on that, brian, when i returned four hours later, it was covered with chalkings. can you imagine, completely clean, coming back hours later and seeing 400,000 square feet with drawings, and feelings and sentiments of what parissians are going through today. >> can't help but think the light rain falling just after 10:00 local paris time is going to wash that way, but it can be done all over again. richard lui, not far from the entrance to the bataclan music venue. if you were watching our coverage this morning, perhaps you saw president obama, because the complexion of europe is
changing, because all free nations have been asked to take in refugees from a broken middle east. president obama in trying to get out ahead of this warned people against equating the refugee crisis with terrorism. the problem is, as richard engel pointed out, that's already under way. and chiefly the focus has been here in the united states, in an election year context. chris hayes with us here because he's been looking into exactly that. >> we have, even before these attacks, there was a building backlash towards taking refugees, there were arguments about their safety. there is one report from paris that suggests a syrian passport was on one of the assailants. also intelligence suggests that passport is fake. so we still don't know the origins. today we've seen a dozen governors in the u.s., 11 republicans and one democrat in new hampshire say they will not
take refugees, or they are opposed to taking refugees. greg abbott in texas sending the federal government a letter saying that. >> while the president was speaking? >> while the president was speaking. the u.s., first of all, it's unclear that the state's had the authority to do that. it's clear from the way immigration policy is adm administrat administrated, a refugee is admitted and they can travel wherever. secondly, there has been an extensive vetting process with respect to syrian refugees. the situation in the u.s. quite different. land crossings, coming through syria, turkey, greece, and that's bringing tens of thousands of people in. that's clearly not the case here. nevertheless, there has also been candidates today speaking out about this, some of them like ted cruz suggesting only christian refugees should be
taken. the president has very strong words in support of that. so the u.s. has been taking far fewer refugees than european nations. about 167 were resettled in the u.s. last month. and the time frame is running 12 to 14 months. we'll see what happens next. it was very interesting to me, that liberal blue states were among the governors that made this call today and one democratic governor in new hampshire also did. >> chris hayes will have more on this tonight on his broadcast, 8:00 eastern time. for now, back to kate snow, who will continue our coverage over the next hour. kate? >> okay, brian, thanks so much. and one clarification. the president today responding to those in the republican party who have said that only christians ought to be accepted at refugees. the president really going back at that and saying, no, he doesn't agree with that point of
view at all. that refugees of all religions ought to be accepted. nbc's peter alexander covers the white house for us. he has more on the u.s. response to the attacks outlined by president obama today as well as secretary of state john kerry's comments just about an hour ago as he arrived in paris. peter? >> actually, i think we saw a much stronger tone from the secretary of state than we did from the president earlier today. there was that juxtaposition as we were hearing from the french president francois hollande who was having a call to arms. at the same time we're hearing president obama who is counselling restraint. the white house, the president's position at this time, we're going to keep doing what we've been doing, we will stay the course with our present strategy, however, we will do it better and stronger and harder going forward. he made it very clear that he does not believe that a substantial addition of ground troops in syria, american ground troops in syria would be a
prudent way forward, suggesting among other things that it was an unsustainable precedent. if you send 50,000 troops in going forward, what happens if another attack is generated from another place, like yemen? the u.s. can't handle having that many troops in that many places. john kerry noted a tougher tone late this evening. take a listen. >> they are in fact, psychopathic monsters, and there's nothing civilized about them. so this is not a case of one civilization against another. this is a battle between civilization itself and barbarism. between civilization and medieval and modern fascism. both at the same time. >> to be clear, the president earlier referred to isis as the face of evil. he said the attack was terrible and sickening.
so his language was also strong. we heard from john kerry, i think we'd all agree, a tone that was even tougher, within the last matter of minutes. >> peter, thank you. across the globe, people are feeling more vulnerable in the wake of the paris terror attacks, begging the weigh of how safe we all are. joining me now, shaun henry, former executive assistant director of the fbi and president of crowd strike services. good to see you. >> hi, kate. >> there is a lot of fear, i was flying last night and people at the airports were noticeably nervous. >> i don't want people to be fearful. i think it should be concern. law enforcement, the intelligence community, our leaders in government, they are all very well aware of what the capabilities of our adversaries are. we know they have the motive and the intent, and they are looking to establish capabilities here domestically so they can harm us, the same way they've harmed western europe here recently.
we know that. director comey from the fbi said that there are investigations actively in all 50 states and there are hundreds of people sympathetic to the jihadi cause who are here among us in the united states. the key piece for disrupting these types of attacks is by the use of good intelligence. and the fbi, local law enforcement, the joint terrorism task forces have been successful at disrupting attacks in the past. we have a new adversary, they have new tactics. we need to continue to drive forward and use that intelligence to have a positive impact. >> what changes after friday? do you think things have changed in terms of the way the fbi is looking at this on monday? >> i don't think so. i think when we see an incident, it raises people's awareness. they might have forgotten because they haven't seen anything recently. but the fbi, this is what they do every day, 24/7, with local
police and the intel community. what the fbi is doing now is, they are reaching out, they are talking to their sources. they're going out and interviewing people who they believe might have some ties, but they might not have enough evidence right now to launch an effective law enforcement action. in other words, you might have a reason to believe somebody's tied to a terrorist organization, but you don't necessarily have enough to charge them. the fbi's not going to wait for them to collect evidence. they're going to go out, try and disrupt people, make sure they know they're under surveillance, anything they can do to knock them off their game. they've got to be aggressive in that regard, mindful of civil rights, but they have to be aggressive to disrupt the adversaries. >> one more questions about large gatherings. this started with explosions outside a soccer game. we have a big soccer game tomorrow in england, and we have monday night football here in america. will there be ramped-up security
at events like that? >> i think there will be. we want to continue to live our lives while remaining vigilant and aware of what the potential is. so there will be enhanced security. there will be police officers roaming. they might have bomb dogs sniffing through the crowd. they'll have some type of physical search. they're going to do that. it's important to make sure and demonstrate that we're taking the necessary precautions. but at the end of the day, we've got to balance our ability to live as americans in a free society with security and we'll have to constantly assess as we go forward. >> shaun, thanks so much. up next, we'll go live to belgium where authorities have carried out a raid and made a number of arrests. how did belgium become a focal point for the attacks in paris? that's next. introducing boost 100 calories. each delicious snack size drink gives you... 25 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein.
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>> in belgium, police have made arrests in the wake of friday's deadly terror attacks in paris. keir simmons has been following developments from belgium and has followed the growth of isis since its beginning. keir? >> reporter: that's right, kate. in this suburb of brussels now, there are multiple man hunts for the people behind these attacks. one described as the mastermind, a shadowy figure. it's not clear he's in this area. salam, the eighth person they're looking for, this is the guy who they believe drove a vehicle away from the attacks, up to the border. was stopped at the french/belgium border, but was
allowed to go free. police didn't realize who they had. he had come to this area because this is where he is from. his brother was one of seven arrested. five have been released, including him. he gave a statement in this square today in which he said that they haven't been in contact with salad. he describes his parents as shocked and bemused by all of this. but at the same time, these man hunts are a sticking clock really because the concern is another attack might be launched by desperate people. they need to find sal ah, today they closed off streets close to this square. there were police commandos going house to house, snipers on the roof. witnesses heard gun shots fired, but in the end, they didn't find him. they're still looking for him tonight. >> keir simmons, thanks so much. let me bring in the contributor
with "the daily beast," he's been writing about how belgium has become a terrorism hotbed. thank you for being with us. >> thank you, kate. >> and we have a bit of a delay on the line. belgium is about 30,000 square miles, the size of the u.s. state of maryland, how does such a small area become a breeding ground for terrorism? >> well, i mean, it's difficult to sort of pinpoint it on one cause, but you can see certain factors that must have contributed to this process of radicalization. the area that we're talking about where most of the -- at least three of the attackers who were involved in the attacks in paris came from, or lived at a certain point in life is called molen bake. it's a densely populated area
with many immigrants living there. and these kids are third generation immigrants from morocco. there's high unemployment level and there are very few prospects. so young people don't really see a future. within those conditions, radicalization is a serious risk. >> so as you've talked to people there -- >> other than that -- >> apologies. we have a delay on the line. as you talk to people there, what do they tell you about the atmosphere, you've mentioned economic depression, is it socially an isolated place? >> yes, absolutely. so young people there don't feel -- well, some of the young people, in any case, don't feel very connected. and feel -- definitely feel isolated. it makes it much more difficult for them to feel in place in
belgium. if you compare to the united states which is in its core, an immigrant country in which people arrive and they can attain a new identity, if you will, in countries like belgium, but also the netherlands, which is very traditional, history is very important, and the roots and where you come from are too. so it makes it much more difficult for newcomers to adjust or to fit in, or to feel at home. >> we're seeing a lot of activity today, my colleague, keir simmons, was describing the efforts by police today. historically, how have they been dealing with the rise of radical thought there? >> well, it's a very complex issue, and some of the other problems, if you talk specifically about belgium, it already was a kind of divided
country, fremish speaking and french speaking. belgium itself has 19 boroughs, so the information when it comes to radicalization in terms of tracking people, must be very difficult and complex. >> nadette, thanks for that. isis is now responding with a new propaganda video that appears to celebrate the attacks in paris. it also threatens to carry out an attack in washington, d.c. i want to bring in nbc news justice correspondent pete williams, he's been covering the u.s. response to these attacks. tell us more about the disturbing video. >> this is isis video saying basically that we're going to attack anybody who is attacking syria with air strikes. it specifically mentions the
united states. it says we will attack the u.s. at its heart in washington, d.c. in terms of what the response to this -- really, response to the paris attack, i don't think that this video changes much. in reality, american law enforcement has been well aware that isis is trying to get people to make attacks in the u.s. the difference here, of course, is that in the past, what law enforcement has been dealing with is isis recruiters reaching out to isolated individuals in the u.s. anyone who will bite on their message and then try to persuade them to wherever they are, carry out some kind of attack. that's been met with some success in the u.s. the fbi has been able to stop a lot more of those. this is a different phenomenon, of people who plot an attack and come in and carry it out. so it's a different intelligence challenge for the u.s., but everybody says, the government officials, members of congress, that the best defense here is good intelligence. so that's the reality. at the same time, a disturbing
growth among isis followers and members in using encryption software. basically they're communicating in ways that law enforcement can't follow. they go into the dark web, or they use popular encryption programs that anyone can download on a smartphone, and it scrambles the content of the communication at the moment it's sent and doesn't unscramble it until it's received. in the meantime, while it's being transmitted, law enforcement can't follow it as if someone was communicating on twitter and with a judge-signed warrant. even with that, it can't follow the scrambled messages. that's a growing concern. and the government has been warning about this since may. but now it's getting a bunch of new attention because of what happened in paris. we don't know if the plotters used this in paris, but one official said he'd be shocked if
they didn't. >> and just to reiterate, we've been saying there's a warning specifically about washington, d.c. what are washington officials saying? >> well, they're saying they're well aware of it, but that they were already prepared to try to challenge isis and to shore up police presence. we haven't seen a lot of that. i think most of what this is, is things you wouldn't see, like for example, extra scrutiny paid to the manifest, the flight list of incoming flights from overseas. >> pete williams, thanks so much. let me bring in mubin sheikh, a former undercover terrorism operative. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> i was reading about your background. give us the short version of how you ended up -- you now work in law enforcement, but how you got there. >> well i'm born and raised in toronto, canada. in the evening i would go to koran school and by day, go to public school. the koran school is is a very
hard, rigid environment, and not conducive to learning properly. public school is open, gender-mixing, nurturing. this created an identity crisis for me. when i turned 18, it manifested and made me feel that i needed to get religious in order to fix my life. i ended up in india and pakistan. in pakistan i had a chance encounter with the taliban who put me on the path towards extremism. >> and this was years ago, this was prior to -- we misspoke, it was prior to isis? >> yes, this is 1995, this is the earlier iterations of extremism. it's only later on that we started to see the first manifestation of 9/11, the wars after 9/11, particularly afghanistan and iraq. and following iraq in particular, you started to see these home-grown plots developing a lot. that's one of the plots i was involved in as an undercover in 2006. a bunch of guys got arrested. but things really kicked off in
2010, 2012, with the syrian civil war and the arab spring. and now we're seeing the third round of that. >> so to make sure people understand, you go from being someone as a youth who was attracted to a radical form of islam, and now you're working undercover terrorism. when you look at isis recruiting and the video we showed, recruiting off the attacks on friday in paris, how do you see things today? >> well, this is their modus op randi. people didn't think isis was capable of doing this. i don't know they thought that. they said they would do it. they're putting french foreign fighters on video, saying, we're coming for you. so we should take them at their word. not believe everything they can say. i don't think they can strike in
the heart of d.c. it's not like you can pretend you're a refugee and go country to country. it's not easy to do that in the u.s. but this is consistent with what they said they were going to do. so it should not come as a surprise to anyone. >> thanks so much for being with us. sorry we're short on time, but we appreciate your perspective. >> thank you. up next, the latest attacks raising questions about the power of isis and how far their reach is, that and more when we come back from a break. you're like "nothing can replace brad!" then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. ok, wehere's dad. mom. the twins.
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counterterrorism analyst for the institute for the study of war. just wrote a piece called the islamic state's trap for europe. thank you for being with us. you wrote about this. you suggest basically that isis knows what it's doing. that this is all sort of part of a strategy. what do you mean by that? >> isis has had a global strategy since it declared its caliphate in june. they have three parallel campaigns. defending its terrain, fostering regional affiliates in libya, iraq, and afghanistan, and funding a terrorist campaign against the west. >> so you suggest that isis anticipated that there would be a backlash against muslims because of these attacks in paris, and then would then further fuel their recruitment? you write, europe must avoid the
trap that the islamic state is setting by focusing its responses to the paris attacks and other outrages against the perpetrators and their supporters. >> absolutely. isis has written about a strategy to polarize and make people suspicious of their muslim communities. i don't think it's a mistake that we had a syrian passport show up in the place of these attacks. isis is trying to foster this cultural strife. >> you think they might have planted that passport? >> i think it's possible. >> do you think the political discourse today in this country is feeding right into what they were hoping? because we're hearing governors and political candidates for president saying, we don't want the refugees in this country. we don't want any muslim refugees. >> and that's the kind of backlash that we need to try to avoid. it's just going to lead to more of a focus on what's not going to lead to the defeat of isis.
it's just going to lead to this cultural problem. >> so when you lay out the three things you think they're trying to do, what can the west and the rest of the world do to counter that strategy? >> we need to lean in to the fight that we already have against isis in iraq and syria, and also think about its regional affiliates, not pretending that the regional partners we have will be able to fight that fight on their own. and pay attention to what's happening with our own borders, not just in terms of refugees, but home-grown extremism. >> thank you, harleen gam bir. >> the city of lights is working to move forward and try to heal. up next, we'll go live to paris where there are mounting memorials for the lives lost.
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three days after the devastating attacks in the heart of paris and parissians are struggling to resume their daily lives. just a few hours ago, the city's most iconic landmark, the eiffel tower, reopened to visitors, museums and other institutions have also opened. but the mood in the city is far from normal. erica joins us live from paris. good evening. >> good evening, good afternoon. that symbol you showed, the eiffel tower, today to see it lit up in the colors of the french flag means so much to the people here. we were there earlier today, trying to get a better sense on this, the third day of national mourning in france, how people were dealing with going back to work, the realities of a monday morning, and as you can imagine, there's still a number of tourists in town. what was interesting, they seem to really have taken on this french attitude of resilience and really want to make a statement. we met a couple from los angeles
who came not long after hearing about the attacks and had some things to say. here's a listen. >> we know as americans, we know what this feels like. >> we wanted to be around an area that, you know, would remind us why we wanted to come here and not just to see the aisle tower, but to celebrate it. >> they're really intent on sending a message, standing strong with the french people. the eiffel tower was supposed to be closed today through this moment of silence at noon and to re-open at 1:00, but it was after 2:00, and it was still not open. we called to check and they said they weren't sure when it was going to open. again, we're told it's open tonight. you can imagine, this is a gray day, the third day, things really sinking in, and a number of people were really frank with us and they said, we don't
necessarily want to do this, we need to go to work, we need to go forward. show the terrorists our way of life will not stop. our joimt of things that are quintessentially french, a caffe on a terrace, glass of wine, and a good meal. one gentleman said, the reality s we're at war. he said that to us at 8:30, and then we heard it from president hollande later in the day. so they're clear what faces their country and they understand how important it is to move forward. this place, the place de la republique, it continues to be a place for people to gather. even the rain is not stopping people from coming down. >> 10:40 on a monday evening, and there are a lot of people behind you. >> erica, thanks so much. we know the numbers. at least 129 died in friday's
horrific attacks, and we're just now starting to learn their stories. msnbc's francis rivera joins me now with more on the victims of the paris attacks. so important to remember them. >> it is. especially for these families. and the families of these victims have been described as what's called inconsolable, as the bodies of the victims have been identified. the french prime minister met with families at a counselling center in paris. french president said the attackers targeted the france that likes life, culture, sports, and parties. and of the victims identified, they range in age from as young as 23 years old and as old as 61. the victims are of 19 nationalities, mostly french, but also includes mexicans, chileans and italians among the dead. one of the first victims to be identified, nohemi gonzalez, the youngest and the only american so far confirmed by nbc news.
she was studying in paris and her friends and the community at cal state long beach held an emotional memorial for her last night on campus. her family struggles with the reality and remember their fondest memories. >> she was so happy. every day, because she loved to go to school. she loved school. and she was going to have a different life, not only like most people who go to work and come back and everything. she wanted to have a career and a family. >> in an instagram post, nohemi's boyfriend said she lost the most important person in his life, saying she was his best friend and she will be my angel
forever. >> also among the dead, killed at the bata clbataclan, alexand. he was everyone's best friend, fiercely loyal. he died doing the job he loved and we take great comfort knowing how much he was challenged by his friends around the world. the band has since cancelled the remainder of their tour. and valentin ribet, a french attorney who recently graduated. his co-workers describe him as a well liked talented collawyer. and a new way to honor the victims on twitter. an account @paris victims has been created, anyone can add to it. now you see the followers for that growing and as well as the posts in their memory. >> such a tribute.
francis, thanks so much, we'll take a short break and we'll be right back. don't just eat. mangia! bertolli. the possibility of a flare swas almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control
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brighter. bigger. thinner. even curvier. but what's next? for all binge watchers. movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. french police launched more than 150 raids overnight as part of the manhunt going on. joining me now to discuss what intelligence agencies can legally gather. msnbc chief legal correspondent ari melber, who has spent years digging into the surveillance issue. let's talk first about france. because france has different laws than the united states. what can they do?
they launched 150 different raids overnight. that's a lot of intervention. >> two things going on. number one, they have exercised their emergency power, which they haven't done on a countrywide basis since the 1960s and the algerian battle. that's a huge step for this nation. if we were living there, it would be getting a lot more attention. number two, their long-term powers have already been expanded because after the "charlie hebdo" attack, they passed the intelligence bill that went farther than current u.s. surveillance law. so if you were in france since that time, you can sur veil any terrorism suspect, phone, audio, or metadata without a warrant. sometimes there's a perception in the united states that some of the european countries are less aggressive than us. since hebdo, they have been more aggressive. >> and edward snowden's leaks got so much attention and played a part in changing some of the
rules here. >> that's right. and the deadline on those change system actual -- changes is actually this month. not that you can't use the metadata, that doesn't mean them surveilling your phone, just looking at your phone records. that will be held by the end of this month by telephone companies, not in a government database. what does that mean in terms of fighting terror? >> not a big difference. snowden's point was that too much of that was in government's hands. but as far as we're concerned in the u.s., the government, the nsa, can still get at that, as long as they ask for it first. >> and one last question, you mentioned metadata. he mentioned that today, talked about restoring the metadata program, what is he talking about? >> he's saying maybe the government should hold on to it and it shouldn't move over to the corporate side. i understand, i think everyone understands after a terrific attack like this, the desire to
double-check everything we're doing, can we do anything bigger or better? having said that, any politician talking about reforming the metadata program in response to france is not making -- there's no allegation that these plans were made between u.s. telephone users. that's simply not part of the conversation right now. so the notion that you'd want to change that doesn't connect to what happened in france. it may connect to something forward -- >> if you were trying to prevent some future horrific attack here stateside, that's probably what he's referring to. >> right. >> but has that already been adjudicated? has that metadata program gone away? >> it's not gone away. it has to be asked for, rather than sitting in government's hands. that was an area of bipartisan agreement because so many republicans backed that reform. it had to get through the republican house, which isn't known for passing much of
anything, let alone divisive things. people said, here's a fix we can live with, you still get that data if it helps you find and hunt any potential terrorist, but you have to ask for it rather than gathering it up. that program was tens of millions of americans' phone records. the view was what lawyers call overinclusive, a lot of americans sucked up into this government database. but there's a right way to do this that involves checks and give the brave men and women who are out there all the data they need. put the law out of it and talk about how we fight these terror attacks. if the french or anyone want u.s. help for anything going on outside of u.s. borders, it's open season. the united states has tremendous resources. we don't always share that because we don't want to reveal sources to other countries. if we're sharing more of that,
it doesn't affect the u.s. >> which the president seems to be doing that. >> seems to be saying that, kate. >> the attacks not having a negative impact on u.s. markets. >> hello, kate. yeah, that was the story today. markets higher despite the paris attacks. the dow gaining 237 points, s&p up by 30, nasdaq rising by 56 points. and food that tastes like home. because the money we spend here... can help keep our town growing. on small business saturday, let's all shop small. for the neighborhood, the town, the home we love. on november 28th, shop small. can a a subconscious. mind? a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought.
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you wrote, we cannot gamble with our national security and risk the lives of americans on an imperfect refugee screening process. the president pushed back against that pretty hard today. listen to what he said. >> it is very important, and i was glad to see that was affirmed again and again by the g20, that we do not close our hearts to these victims of such violence. and somehow start equating the issue of refugees with the issue of terrorism. >> congressman, are you closing your heart to the victims?
>> no, i'm not. the fbi director suggested in terms of screening, he called into question whether we have the capability at this point. so i'm very concerned about that. and also, in terms of france, what's happened in paris, we had one of the terrorists that actually was disguised as a refugee. >> potentially. we're not clear that that is the case yet. >> potentially, yeah. >> where do you want all of these tens of thousands of people to go if none are coming to the united states? >> i'd like to find a way we can work with other countries and move them back into the middle east, and find a scenario there that works for everybody. so that would be my mind-set. i just think this terms of what's happened in france twice this year, we have to take this very serious. when we had the fbi director questioning our ability to screen, i think it makes zero
sense to be dealing with this quickly. >> all right, congressman, thank you so much for being with us. that's republican congressman vern buchanan. appreciate your time. >> thank you. that does it for this hour. i'm kate snow. stick with msnbc throughout the night for continuing coverage of the terror in paris. i'll see you tomorrow. "mtp daily" starts right now. ♪ ♪ welcome to a special edition of "mtp daily." that of course was the sound of the french parliament earlier today, singing in their national anthem in solidarity. after friday's attack that killed 129 and injured hundreds more. good evening from washington. for