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we have seen incidents, but have not seen the widespread type of disassociation and coming of sectarianism you've seen. >> no doubt we integrate better. i've got to leave it there. appreciate you sharing your wisdom with us. a lot more tomorrow on mtp daily. right now stay tuned for more of our coverage on msnbc and special live coverage of the attacks in paris continue. erica hill will anchor live from paris after this. good evening, i'm erica hill live in paris. the deadliest attacks here in france since world war ii. right now, the hunt is on for two people reportedly linked to this mass being a ear. saleh abdeslon and abdelhamid
abaaoud. you see their images from an isis propaganda magazine. france is stepping up its fight today, targeting the source of isis' money. the road at the beteclan theater is open. memorials are growing by the minute. we want to bring in bill neely here with me at paris. you have more information on the manhunt and the security situation tonight. >> yes. we've got a manhunt and extraordinary series of raids here today. french police carrying out raids across the country. 168 in all. police trying to prevent more attacks, which the french prime minister warned about this morning on french radio. telling french people, more
attacks are being planned. you've got to be prepared for this a manhunt is under way for a man we are not quite sure if he was the eighth attacker. he's being described as an accomplice, a dangerous man. french people being warned not to approach him. it's not just french police hunting for him. he may be in belgium. it's saleh abdeslam. and a man thought to be involved in this plot. there were warnings from the french president. he said you will not destroy france, france will destroy you. he pledged to increase france's military campaign against isis. to that end, an aircraft carrier is now pushing its way closer to syria and to iraq where it will launch more air strikes like the ones we saw over the last 24
hours. >> we heard the french president use the word "war." today. many people saying it on the streets. to hear it from him really quite a moment. >> that's not just addressed at the french people. that's addressed at nato. he is trying to say to nato, we're in an organization if one of our members is attacked and we believe it's war, you must help us. it's a way of putting pressure on the united states. interestingly, president obama said at the beginning of his press conference, we are not offering more intelligence, more quickly to france. so the u.s., if you like, stepping up to the plate to the challenge, that president hollande gave by saying, it's war. >> thank you for being with us tonight. there is an intense manhunt to find anyone connected to these attacks. bill mentioned the name salah
mahmoud abbas deslam. he was stopped and questioned saturday. border officials let him go. officials thought they may have pinpointed his location to a suburb of brussels. they did not find him there. we are in that suburb tonight molenbeek where it's been very busy throughout the day. >> reporter: that's right. he may well be in this community, in this suburb of brussels. the master mind that bill was talking about comes from this very area. the police are searching frantically, frankly. today they closed off a number of streets and police commandos moved from house to house in a search that appeared to be trying to find salah. there were snipers on roofs. witnesses talked about hearing gun shots on regular occasions. some people were led away, but
they didn't find this man who they believe drove with two others from paris, got to the border with france and belgium, was stopped, but it was just hours after the attacks. those police didn't realize who they had in their custody and let him go. this is the area where he's from. across the square, his family lives. they are surmising he could be here. they don't seem to snow judging by that search today which seemed to turn up nothing. they arrested seven people over the weekend. two charged. five of them were released, including salah's brother who made a statement saying, i am innocent. we don't know where my brother is and saying his parents are shocked and bemused by all of this. >> we are hearing experts on radicalization talking about the foreign fighters making their way into iraq and syria. there are more belgians per capita doing that than any other western country. is there a sense of why?
>> there really is. 500 actually is how many they estimate has traveled to iraq and syria to join various extremist groups, including the islamic they covered their ears. they tried to hope that it goes away. that hasn't worked. in fact, it's got worse. this area of brussels is connected to a number of attacks, terrorist attacks over recent years. perhaps there is a lesson there because what it tells us, i guess, in this small community, if you just ignore isis, if you turn away, they just come back
and fight back harder. >> would appear to be that way tonight. thank you. richard lui is not far from me here in paris. richard, you've been out and about in the city today, getting a sense of the mood on this, the third day of national mourning here. >> yeah, erica. ever since we were here saturday, we've been watching how the french have been reacting to this tragedy over time. i think what articulates it the best is looking at the chalkings we've seen pop-up all around the city. a street very close to the bataclan theater this morning we found a worker setting up the market for tomorrow. they'll reopen the first time. on the ground were these chalkings. some of them representing the symbol of the french revolution, the slogan saying, liberty, equality, brotherhood. then they added the word on to
that slogan, amour, love. also on the ground, all of paris and a heart. saying, paris i love you. you can count the number of slogans and expressions of the pain so many of them are going through. the good thing as we know, they are expressing what they are going through. also very interesting person that spoke with our colleague thomas roberts today. she said this as she was expressing her reaction to what happened when she sat in a restaurant. >> to you watching at home who could imagine this happening on your door step, do not let yourselves be ruled by fear. the islamic state group are trying to use these symbols of our daily lives for their own political end and we will not let them. to the islamic state group, you will not win.
>> those expressions, as you know, you saw right in front of you, republique. thousands of chalkings right there. >> richard lui, thank you. we are now seeing a strong security response to these attacks in the united states. new york police department saying it will have 500 officers working at all times as part of a critical response command to protect against terrorism. today president obama said the u.s. is working closely with france to track down suspects. >> france is already a strong counterterrorism partner and they were announcing a new agreement. we are streamlining the process by which we share intelligence and operational information with france. as president my first priority is the safety of the american people. that's why even as we accept more refugees, including syrians, we do so only after subjecting them to rigorous screening and security checks.
we also have to remember that many of these refugees are the victims of terrorism themselves. that's what they're fleeing. slams the door in their faces would be a betrayal of our values. >> the president speaking out strongly there about syrian refugees. the list of governors saying they do not want them in their states is growing. 17 governors saying they will block syrian refugees coming into their state. the state department admitting it has to examine whether that is even legal. this obviously inspiring yet another intense debate. joining me democratic congressman seth maltan an iraq war veteran. his state governor saying they will not accept refugees. you tweeted earlier today, "it's a shame governor baker doesn't
know the difference between refugees and those from whom they need refuge." clearly, you don't agree with the governor's stance. give us a sense, why do you thing they should be brought in and why do you think your governor is making the wrong decision? >> well of course our national security must be taken care of. anybody who comes into the united states is properly vetted. we need to increase those procedures. slamming the door on refugees is unamerican. it's morally wrong and not going to defeat isis. one of the things i was so proud of fighting in iraq as a marine corps infrontry officer, we never let the enemy change our values. we've got to uphold those values today. >> based on your experience and what you saw on your time in iraq, is the current strategy working? what needs to change? >> no, it's no clearly, the current strategy has not been effective. i think we need a more serious
long-term strategy to defeat isis. that means leading with a political solution to fill the vacuums in the middle east that allowed isis to grow. isis grew into a political vacuum that we left when we pulled all the political advisors out of baghdad. it allowed the iraqi government to grown off the rail. they've grown in the political vacuum of the syrian civil war. i'm worried they might grow into a political vacuum in afghanistan just as we are trying to pull the troops out. we've got to have a credible political plan and a mission that our soldiers and the bombers overhedican believe in. i don't think we have that today. >> so then what is that plan? you're saying we need to political plan. give me some real ideas here. how do you make that work? >> sure. for example in syria, every 18-year-old russian soldier from minsk knows their political plan to keep assad in power. i don't agree with that. i believe in a political
transition from assad's regime if we are just sending in 50 officers, it sounds like we are trying to have a military takeover. i don't think i heard from anybody who really understands what our plan for where syria is going is. if you are a soldier on the ground and you don't actually know what you're fighting for, you can't be very effective and there is a great risk all your efforts will go to waste. i think in iraq, we've got to empower the iraqi government and we've got to push out the iranian influence. that's the kind of political plan i'm talking about. lead with diplomacy. if iraqi politics are broken and that allowed isis to flourish in iraq, you don't fix iraqi politics by training iraqi troops. >> what about in terms of the intelligence? nbc news confirming that turkey twice warned france about one or possibly more attacks. there is a major concern about intelligence failures here. that is a separate part of the
puzzle. how does that get fixed? >> you're right. we need better intelligence and more intelligence cooperation. i think, unfortunately, there are a lot of people who felt we could just pull out of the middle east we could let this problem fester and let people over there solve it for themselves. isis is a national security threat to us and our allies. they brutally killed americans and europeans abroad. they have every intention of killing them here at home as we saw in paris this weekend. we've got to confront this threat head-on. i think we need a more serious long-term and comprehensive strategy than we have now one piece of that strategy is confronting them on social media where they are recruiting europeans and americans as we speak. we don't have a serious social media strategy to defeat isis. that is another example what i mean of a comprehensive strategy. not just dropping a few bombs or sending a few troops in without a clear mission. >> that is something we heard more and more about, even from
the president today referencing the use of social media. congressman moulton, appreciate your time tonight. >> thank you. did authorities miss any signs these attacks were coming? could a video game system hold the key? plus president obama standing by his strategy for isis, sparking a fierce political debate from air strikes to ground troops. what are the best options? >> what is being done in the united states to keep our cities safe? it's more than a network and the cloud. it's reliable uptime. and multi-layered security. it's how you stay connected to each other and to your customers. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions, including an industry leading broadband network, and cloud and hosting services - all with dedicated, responsive support. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, you're free to focus on growing your business. centurylink. your link to what's next.
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assassinations or hostage taking in the coming days. today president obama said he didn't know of any intelligence that could have stopped the attacks. >> every day we have threat streams coming through the intelligence transit. there were no specific mentions of this particular attack that would give us a sense of something that we need, that we could provide french authorities, for example or act on ourselves. >> and now questions about how the terrorists manage to plot the attacks without being detected. today there is unconfirmed speculation the terrorists may have used playstation 4 gaming console to communicate. senator dianne feinstein told andrea mitchell silicon valley has to take action. >> i think that silicon valley has to take a look at their
products because if you create a product that allows evil monsters to communicate in that way, to behead children, to strike innocents, whether it's at a game in a stadium, in a small restaurant in paris, take down an airliner, that's a big problem. >> want to bring in a truman fellow and form fellow. when we are hearing these, and i want to reiterate unconfirmed accounts, hearing these talks about how terrorists could be using a gaming console to communicate begs a lot of questions. nbc news learned there is an isis help desk for some of this. when faced with that, how do you combat it? >> it's really impossible to say
they have used game consoles to communicate. if they indeed have used them, it's almost impossible to predict when those guys are going to get on their game console and stop communicating. it's not necessarily the game consoles have encrypted software that doesn't allow governments to have surveillance, but it is very impossible to predict the time and which group at which time, but again, jihadists that support isis including fighters have utilized a number of platforms that have encrypted software that allows encrypted communication such as telegram which is emerging recently. isis is using it without scrutiny. other software like sure spot have also emerged where we see jihadists communicate whether to try to go overseas or communicate among themselves. they are using multiple platforms. there are websites in the deep and dark web that be underscrutinized by the government. there are multiple platforms.
we should have a comprehensive look at all of the software and platforms they are using without focusing on one without any proof, i would say. >> how do you find the man power if we are turning to the government to do this, to focus on any single one of those possibilities? is this an option at this point? >> no, it's not. i worked in the intelligence community for about five years. there are a bunch of very dedicated, hard working women and men who are tracking these nefarious actors as best they can. we are going to end up chasing our tail. it's important to examine the playstation option, to wonder if something that the iraqis gave us could have been credible in hindsight. those are all things we can do. if we are going to have a serious conversation about how to solve this problem in the long run, what we really need is
a fundamental reexamination of america's role in the middle east. >> do we also need to reexamine the way the u.s. goes after things? there's been a lot of criticism on the homefront. we look at tsa and security at airports and that it is too reactionary. every time something happens we talk about missed signs. is the terror strategy too much of a reactionary plan? >> every time we innovate something, we take off our shoes at airport because richard reid decided he would put bombs in his shoes. we are not allowed to bring liquids on their planes because in 2006 they thought they would stuff gatorade bottles with liquid explosives. every time we do that, we remain one step behind. when we innovate a security precaution, that only encourages someone who would want to do us harm to innovate a response and try to get around it. >> is there enough cooperation
on a global stage? >> no i don't believe so. i think the united states is carrying much of the burden of the surveillance and the intelligence gathering. i don't believe there is enough intelligence cooperation between the various governments. the iraqi government has proven over again they have faulty intel. if not intentionally faulty intel. we can't trust everything they are saying without deep examination of the legitimacy of what they are saying. i think we need more intelligence cooperation between governments rather than focus only on the immediate allies. >> appreciate you both joining us with your insight this evening. thank you. >> thank you. still to come live from paris, the latest on the manhunt. more than 100 people now in custody after raids across europe. plus, new debate about the u.s. strategy to defeat isis. president obama says more ground troops are not the answer.
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i would anticipate this is not the only operation that isil has in the pipeline. >> a chilling assessment from cia director john brennan as france marks another day of mourning here. isis released propaganda video threatening attacks on washington. president obama defended the administration strategy to defeat isis. >> strengthening syrian and iraqi forces and kurdish forces prepared to fight them, cutting off their borders and squeezing
the space where they operate to ultimately defeat them. >> after more than a year carrying out air strikes on isis targets, is that strategy working? good to have both of you with us tonight. ambassador, there are so many questions tonight about ground troops. president obama talking about that today. let's take a quick listen to what he had to say. >> there have been a few who suggested we should put large numbers of u.s. troops on the ground. it is not just my view but the view of my closest military and civilian advisors. that that would be a mistake. >> would troops on the ground be a mistake? >> let's say the president lacks the will power for the last several years to take on isis. he lacked the leadership to galvanize an effective coalition.
i am not in favor of placing hundreds of thousands or even thousands of american troops on the ground. the president is setting up a political strawman here. he's not willing to put ten boots on the ground in order to identify the targets to make the effective use of american air power 75% of our attacks have to go back without dropping their bombs because we do not have even ten boots on the ground as the president refused to do. the problem here is that isis poses an existential threat to the you'd. the white house staff is not qualified to take on isis and develop an effective strategy. until we have an effective strategy by a staff in the white house and a willing president, we are not going to solve this problem by putting boots on the ground or by air power alone. we need to galvanize a much more effective coalition of iraq states and nato allies that have so far sat on the sidelines and enjoyed watching us do their
dirty work for them. >> gail, what does an effective isis strategy look like? >> the ghost of the iraq war hangs over every decision being made about syria. for a long time i talked to administration officials who say we have a policy on syria. it's containment. i think what you see now is the real limits of that containment. the central question is how much terror threat are we willing to live with for how long? what is the next step in terms of dealing with an existential threat? do you give greater resources to those on the ground as some inside the administration argued a long time who are willing to do the fighting themselves. we've been incredibly reluctant to arm for fear those weapons end up in the wrong places. the question is if boots on the ground then whose? >> gayle, let me bring you back to containment.
there's been so much talk prior to everything that happened friday, that isis was contained. can isis at the end of the day be contained? >> it's really difficult to imagine thou given the situation you see now with 4 million refugees on the run. at the center of this entire conversation with containment is assad. there is real fear what comes after assad. talk to folks within the administration, they'll say if you get assad, you have isis. they are linked, which is why diplomacy matters. it makes everything much more complicated in terms of thinking how to fight isis. he is a byproduct of the assad regime. >> ambassador, there is more talk of course tonight about syrian refugees. there is a very real threat as we have learned about syrian refugees making their way, perhaps some people posing as
refugees. there also is a very real humanitarian crisis. how do you balance those two? >> it's awfully tough. let's take as an axiom that the vast majority of these syrians that are fleeing are decent people just desperately trying to escape the calamity of their homeland. there's always going to be some bad apples. unfortunately, the screening process is now in the hands of those countries in western europe, notably germany as well as austria and slovinia that have to back track to where these folks originated. the problem is not the refugees. it's the home grown terrorists, belgian and french nationals, not necessarily these refugees. >> appreciate you both joining us tonight. thank you. >> good to be with you. coming up, more on the
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coverage of the deadly terrorist attacks here in paris. nbc news learned a defense air strike today target ed raqqah. investigators are scouring the globe for these two men. they believe salah abdeslam is an accomplice to the attacks. a french official says the other man you see there abdelhamid abaaoud is a master mind. that is from an isis propaganda
magazine. the paris attacks are igniting a debate in the united states over refugees. another republican governor stepping forward, vowing to block syrian refugees from her state. the latest, south carolina's governor nikki haley. that brings the tally to 17 governors who said they do not want syrian refugees in their state. president obama speaking out sharply today against blocking refugees. >> it is very important. i'm glad to see this was affirmed again and again by the g-20, that we do not close our hearts to
that makes sense because under our system, while governors do have certain powers under federalism, it is a federal decision to do administration po policy. whatever your opinion of the wisdom of doing this, which there is a great debate and a terror event may have a lot of people rethinking it. as to the question who controls it, it's the executive branch. some governors have been more careful than others. texas governor abbott talked about how he wanted to stop spending any texas resources to help with resettlement.
he may have that power. that's him saying, i'm not going to help. once someone is admitted legally to the united states, which is a federal decision, like anyone else legally here, they can travel through different states and buy a home or an apartment or live in different states. that is not something a governor can effectively ban. >> ari melber, appreciate it. >> going after president obama and hillary clinton criticizing their plans to take on isis. >> president obama and hillary clinton's proposal to bring to america tens of thousands of syrian muslims is nothing short of lunacy. >> we have a president who won't use the term radical islamic terrorism. hillary clinton didn't want to use the term the other day.
>> that would be like saying we weren't at war with nazis because we were afraid to offend germans who may have been members of the nazi party. we are at war with radical islam. >> as this weekend's democratic debate, hillary clinton took heat from fellow democrats for her vote on iraq. >> i don't think any sensible person would disagree that the invasion of iraq led to the massive level of instability we are seeing right now. that is one of the worst foreign policy blunders in the history of the united states. >> joining me is nbc political analyst jonathan alter. good to have you with us tonight. >> hi, erica. >> it's become such an important part of the race in 2016. wasn't getting clearly as much attention prior to that. at this point, do terrorism and foreign policy end up deciding the race in 2016? >> just in the short term, we do not know what will happen.
in the medium term, much less a year from now when the election takes place, that depends whether this is the first of many such incidents, whether it comes to the united states or not. if it doesn't, then this will fade in the past and will play a role in the campaign, but won't define the campaign. >> will not define the campaign. short term, it could have a fairly significant impact. hillary clinton needs to balance her position with the obama administration. how does that play out for her? >> she's already on record in that debate this past week as supporting the president in keeping this away from american troops on the ground. that american boots on the ground, as they say, will not be part of this response to the paris attacks. the problem for the republicans is with the exception of lindsey graham, the rest of them take the same position. here they are criticizing the
president's policy and they are right we shouldn't have called isis the jv and maybe they should use the term radical islamic extremists. they might be right about that, but they are wrong the policy has failed when they won't offer an alternative policy, which is what the president was pointing out today. in other words, until they say, yes, we're for boots on the ground, they have an identical policy to that being pursued by president obama. they don't have much substantive ground on which to criticize him. >> we see the republican field is so much larger, obviously. there are these nontraditionals, nonpolitical or not politician candidates who gained so much ground but when it comes to the foreign policy experience, clearly different than other folks in their field. how does that come into play? >> you have the candidates who claim they have foreign policy
experience, saying they know more than those who don't. that's not always the case to. give you two quick examples. you have marco rubio saying over the weekend that this is a clash of civilizations, quoting the great political scientist samuel huntington. that is totally false. to suggest this is the west versus islam or something. it's not a clash of civilizations. isis is not a civilization. it is barbarian. these are people sick, twisted, evil people who want to take us back to the 12th century. to say they represent a civilization that we are now in, you know, clashing with is historically and politically ignorant. that's rubio's point. jeb bush talks about how only christians should be allowed in among the refugees. that is a terrible idea. imagine if they said no jews could come in when they were refugees from the russian revolution or something?
because some jews had been bolshovik. >> we have to leave it there. thank you for being with us tonight. >> thanks a lot. appreciate it. still ahead, new details about the suspects in the paris terror plot. what we are learning about them today. the people of paris after the attack. how theyri are finding the strength to move forward. we're trying to give them all the feeling of being at the stadium. the microsoft cloud gives us the scalability to communicate exactly the content that people want to see. it will help people connect to their passion of living real madrid. when a moment turns romantic why pause to take a pill?
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who is arriving on the continent. but the relatively small number of refugees who are going to go to the united states will go through a completely different screening process so they will have been filtered, if you will. those who are overly concerned are comparing two things that are quite or aren't analagas, in fact. us, in fact. os, in fact. us, in fact. you don't have to be a king to be treated like one.
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show we're still there and there is nothing that can stop us. >> she was really shaken, i can tell you, but so determined. on the streets and sidewalks, we've been showing you these beautiful memorials of the lives lost, crowds coming together. signs like this one in french which said "not afraid." so many of those. i've spoken to a number of americans visiting paris who said they're not going to be afraid either. >> we got the last flight out of lax friday night. pretty nervous driving to the airport. checked with the airline at the airport. they said the borders are closed, but you can still fly in. they said we're not going to be scared by this. we are going to have our trip that we planned. >> we wanted to be around an
area that would remind us why we wanted to come here and not just to see the eiffel tower, but to celebrate it. >> it is that celebration of the french spirit and the french culture that we are seeing from so many determined parisians tonight. we have heard many people erupt into the french national anthem so many days. it's not just people in france singing that song. there are people around the globe. a really beautiful thing to see as that happens. i'm erica hill reporting from paris. "hardball" is next. is washington next? this is "hardball."