tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC November 16, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm PST
extremists who are homegrown, reaching out across into a war zone and getting combat training there, that is a terrible combination. i don't think we've seen the last of it. >> it's been a privilege to join with you tonight. thank you for being here for this hour. it's been great to have you here, my friend. our ongoing coverage of the attacks in paris continues now with lawrence o'donnell. this is msnbc's continuing coverage of terror in paris. the islamic state, the threat to attack washington today making the question of how to stop the islamic state all the more urgent. first, brian williams with the latest developments in the investigation. brian? >> lawrence, thank you. and good evening. it is a cold and rainy night in paris tonight. we're still within the 72-hour envelope after the terrorist attacks that have left 129
people dead, hundreds more injured. the suspected terrorists who escaped the attacks alive is still at large. the international manhunt is on now for this 26-year-old belgian. it ak late laided today with intense police raids around brussels in a neighborhood known as molenbeek. the family spoke to reporters today.
man, a belgian national to the molenbeek area. known for his extremist connections and the mastermind of the paris terrorist attacks. the french interior minister said police had arrested 23 people in 168 separate raids in cities across that country starting early today. they are warning this is just the beginning. the islamic state released a chilling propaganda video today. it threatens that any country that attacks it will suffer the same fate as we just seen in paris. specifically it named the united states as a target, saying it would hit america, quote, in its cell, in washington. we ant to go to our justice correspondent pete williams in washington. pete, earlier tonight in your reporting we were talking about the good guys catching up to and catching the bad guys.
mistaken that you reported isis has something approaching a 24-hour computer help desk for all their electronic means they use to communicate beyond the reach of law enforcement? >> that's what we've been told, that this is a development that isis has been working on for probably the past several nts no, ramping the capability up. we should emphasize that intelligence officials say they don't yet know how the plotters kept in touch. but one official says he would be shocked if they didn't use some method of communication that the police couldn't monitor. that's been a question here, why weren't the french authorities better aware that this was going to happen. but when you're talking about is counter terrorism officials telling us that isis has been manning this 24-hour help desk manned by half a dozen senior operatives who can tell would be jihadists around the world how to use possibly available encryption software to allude
the authorities. like what's app, tell telegram. here in the u.s. they know from cases that they've made earlier this year, actually arrested people, that when isis recruiters find somebody after their vast outreach through propaganda, like twitter, when they find somebody sympathetic who bites who said, yeah, i might be willing to do something, then the people in isis say, shift these applications. they encrypt a message at the moment it's sent and it's not unscramled until it's received at the other end. so it's impossible for the government to monitor even if they get a court order from the company saying unscramble this for us. the company can't do it applica feature to erase it once it's read so it's gone forever. there's another aspect that is interesting here, that the belgian authorities have warned ability before the paris attack another way to allude surveillance. they say that even gaming
consoles like playstation 4 that sony makes have this internet group play capability where you can get people together on the internet and play a game and talk and text to each other while you're playing the game and it's very hard for the government to keep track of because these online groups come and go so quickly. one cyber expert today called it security by on security. it's a double problem. the encryption on the one hand and these other means the government encrypted but it's not hard to find them. >> pete williams, our justice correspondent in our d.c. newsroom tonight to start off our breaking news coverage. let's go to the streets of paris. msnbc's richard lui. richard, the initial question, the presence of police and french military, you've been there for a while now. how has their public stance changed and, also, we should add, it's coming up on the early morning hours there. >> early morning hours, good day
to you there, brian. as we have heard about the news today of the 160 antiterror raids that have happened over the last 48 hours we were thinking to ourselves as we have toad here on the plaza and the concert area, the concert theat theater. think so given the number of antiterror raids the investigations undertaken within that time period. but this was an important day for french president francois hollande no doubt because on zub we knew he was meeting with his advisers. the question today was, what would he say in his historic address to his congress here in paris. we learned so many things as you were outlining earlier. again, the mastermind, that was a big part of what he was saying
today. abaaoud, abdelhamid abaaoud, 27-year-old, belgian born as has been reported. he organized the attacks here in paris, in syria, it is believed, planned it -- rather in syria and organized it in belgium and executed it here in paris. and the interesting part about his background, to be a happy go lucky individual, smiling and very intellectual. he was successful in his high school going to a very prestigious one in belgium. it is a manhunt that we understand is so important to, of course, the parisian authorities here as well as national government. second of all, there is that eighth individual that's involved in the attack that happened on friday. salah abdeslam, 26 years old. we understand he was also stopped by authorities as he
made his way to belgium. those two manhunts that is on right now are the key developments today. we have seen now four names of those eight attackers identified. a lot of progress. francois hollande as i was saying adding to that by saying i'm going to add 5,000 heads to law enforcement as well as to the military. that's in addition here, brian, to the 1500 that they added after the "charlie hebdo" attacks in january. so it was a big day for the president. we'll see how the public reacts to that in the coming days. >> msnbc's richard lui, again, early morning hours paris. we're appreciative of you getting up with us or getting up to talk with us this morning, richard. thank you. we're also appreciative to be able to talk to christopher dicky, veteran journalist for a long time and editor with the "daily beast" and long time american resident of paris, an american in paris, as it were. christopher, let's start there. as we watch france move, their
president has described as a wartime footing, what are the behavior behavioral, cultural differences that american viewers should look for between the french and the americans? >> well, i think one thing that you have to look for is the resilience of the french. they have been through a lot of terrorist experiences. people forget, but i've lived here since the late 1980s. and in the '80s, in the '90s there were lots of terrorist incidents. there were bombings. there were incidents that were very, very ugly indeed. the french always sprang back, they always came back. ic they have an enormous resilien resilience. i'm not saying the americans don't but the french have just had a lot of experience with terrorism, even though this is, you know, more appalling of any of the previous incidents, it's something that they know how to deal with.
>> christopher, if you agree that after this there are these stages of fear and flight and denial and acceptance and anger. where do you think the french are right now on that spectrum? >> i think they're in the anger spectrum. but they're also -- i think the solidarity spectrum. it's a little bit different. it's that coming together. it's that thing that you see in place de le republique where people want to be with each other, they're going out, they're going to restaurants, they're going to -- talking to each other in the street, in the metro. there's a kind of solidarity that exists in french society that's very striking. i guess it's that part of it that --
>> "the new york times" has story for tomorrow morning's edition and the subhad head generally says january is not november. what they mean is after the attacks at these magazines there were many public figures coming forward to keep the lid on. to remember these were a select few muslims, not all. but you're hearing fewer public champions of the religion now in france. and do you fear a more abrupt turn? >> well, you know, there was a lot of after "charlie hebdo" that somehow the right would not be able to take advantage of that and use that as -- to do what amounts to race baiting and muslim baiting. but, in fact, over time, they were able to take advantage of it. now, this is coming right on top of a huge sense of crisis about
issue. when you have literally hundreds of thousands of people coming across the mediterranean to try and find homes in europe all of a sudden people were worried to begin with. now you've got a situation where some of those people may have been associated with this terrorist act. that's still not absolutely clear. but it certainly is something that politicses former president are trying to exploit. that of course will drive a lot of divisions into society. but that's not what dwou feel on the street root now. that's what your seeing in public. >> crihristopher dickey, a pleasure to talk to you. thank you, too, for staying up with us so late as morning approaches in paris. lawrence, we'll be back on the air later on in your hour to talk about the status of the
investigation. vis-a-vis the terrorists in this case. >> thanks, brian. coming up, belgium has raised its terror threat level and tomorrow's soccer game against spain as they search for one of the terrorists that escaped after the paris attacks. we will have a report from belgium. and how do we stop the islamic state? president obama says putting large number of troops on the ground in syria would be a mistake. >> chair asks that the house now observe a moment of silence in memory of the victims of the paris attacks in france. (vo) what does the world run on? it runs on optimism. it's what sparks ideas. moves the world forward. invest with those who see the world as unstoppable. who have the curiosity to look beyond the expected and the conviction to be in it for the long term.
oppenheimerfunds believes that's the right way to invest... ...in this big, bold, beautiful world. ♪ how else do you think he gets around so fast? take the reins this holiday and get the mercedes-benz you've always wanted during the winter event. hurry, offers end soon. ♪ ♪ it took the rockettes years to master the kick line.
we are slowly still gathering information on some of the victims of the attack in paris on friday. matthew hoche was a technician, one of the victims of the massacre at the bataclan theater. father of one. he had been an exchanging student at the university of north texas in 2007. >> he and his friends visited lots of places and went to the rodeo here in town at the beginning of the semester and it's always good texas fun. so they would just come in the office and it was wonderful to see him enjoying his experience and learning about texas. >> he was 29 years old.
(dramatic music) centrum brings us the biggest news in multivitamin history. ( ♪ ) a moment when something so familiar becomes something so new. (impact on metal) introducing new centrum vitamints. a multivitamin that contains a full spectrum of essential nutrients you enjoy like a mint. new centrum vitamints. go to centrum.com for a $4 coupon.
isil is the face of evil. our goal, as i said many times, is to degrade and ultimately destroy this barbaric terrorist organization. >> but can military force destroy the islamic state? today the islamic state released a video celebrating the attack in paris and specifically threatening that if the united states continues its strikes against the islamic state they will strike america in washington, d.c. joining us now from london co-author of "isis inside the army of terror" and here in new york, ran wood, contributing
editor for "the atlantic." one thing you've written over the weekend you questioned whether the islamic state actually did authorize this ahead of time or whether they just -- whether it was one of those things where people may have inspired did it and they kind of went along with it. >> yeah, so far the model for attacks on the west has been an inspirational model for the islamic state. that is, we haven't seen direct connections where we've seen planning, funding, provision of weapons. instead it's been a matter of saying, by the islamic state, yes, go ahead. we bless you if you have these kinds of activities. now we don't really know what's happened yet but it could very well be a centrally planned, funded, and provisioned attack. >> you saw some details in the islamic state statements about this that were inconsistent with their past claims of credit. >> there were little aspects of the claim of credit that were interesting. they didn't give any of the names of the attackers.
they were a little bit slip shard in some of their translation. the islamic state has in some cases been really about the copy editing the grammar, the spelling. there's little things that were screwed up. so it looked like at least the pr department is a little bit taken on a back foot. >> and hassan, we have new calls here in the united states for sending troops into syria. we have president of france saying that this is war. it's not clear to me what he means by war. what can be done at this point to change the dynamics with the islamic state? >> well, i think that sort of rhetoric is common. every time a foreign national, foreign country is killed by isis we tend to hear, you know, tough talk by the government of
that country. atlan recent example was the jordan, when the jordan pilot was burned alive by isis. we jaw jordan launch very heavy-handed air campaign against isis in brussels and elsewhere. that faded. jordan did not continue to do that. what we see -- the fear is that we might see the same thing with france. i think the way forward is either two things. either continue with the measure of campaign now led by the united states to contain isis militarily while you formulate, you know, a plan to resolve to conflict in both iraq and syria. because unless we deal with the situation in these two countries, you know, undermine the idea of isis because isis
success on the ground is global ideological because it presents itself as a caliphate building enterprise that is actually working for some people. so unless you deal with isis physically on the ground, you kind of see it. the other option is the right one which is basically to go all in. not only in the military sense but more importantly in a political sense as in to resolve the conflict in both iraq and syria because isis was borne out of the failures that have been -- that have defined the unshaped past decade in iraq and the past half decade in syria. and the third one is basically what some people are now calling for, and i think it's the misguided approach which is basically to increase the pace and rate of bombs in these
countries. >> and graham, do you see a strategy developing or a suggested strategy that the united states hasn't tried that it should now try? >> i think hassan hassan is quite right, that the strategies that he's outlined are -- he's presented them roughly in order of wisdom. yes, to continue to roll back isis territory is what we should do. we so far have been slowly but surely successful with that. just continuing along that path. i think is probably the right way to go. but adding, of course, the importance of this political solution which is quite a difficult one. >> so what about larger troop commitment to that effort? >> that would, i think, be still -- first of all, something that isis would, i think, largely welcome. but -- why would they welcome it? >>er to one thing it, it would be a very good recruiting tool. they have been saying from the
begin that we want an invasion. we want americans to show up. we want to show that this is a fight between christians and muslims. so far at least in iraq and syria, it's been a fight mostly between muslims and muslims. so to give them that wish i think is something that we should do with great reluctance. >> hassan, do you agree that isis would like to get american troops, american so-called boots on the ground? >> absolutely. i think, you know, this approach has already been tested within, you know, the lessons from the iraq war. you can defeat isis, you can trim it, you can contain it militarily but it will come back again because it's not a sustainable solution to have boots on the ground and fight isis and temporarily, as president obama said, roll it back because it will come back. what we need to do is basically create an alternative, a real alternative, viable alternative
that appeals to people on the ground and make that ideology absolute that sort of the idea of a caliphate or a good government body that knows how to regulate the areas and its control isis has provided a very important product, if you like, to people living under its control, which is security. people no longer -- are no longer kidnapped, killed randomly. the only violent -- isis has a monopoly over violence. that kind of gives some people psychological uncertainty that because they don't have another option. in iraq, the other option is iranian-backed militias that actually do similar, vicious act like isis and syria, the same thing. >> graeme, how long would it
take to replace isis in that sense in the way that hassan is saying, kind of take -- completely convert that territo territory? >> well, to provide what isis is giving, which is government, security, lack of chaos, is a huge undertaking. it's not something that i think we as americans are or a foreign coalition can actually provide. really what we're talking about here is creating iraqi governance, syrian governance acceptable to that. we are a long way away from an entity that can do that. >> thank you both very much for joining us tonight. coming up, a report from belgium where an intense search is under way for one of the terrorists who escaped after the paris attack. ... and one of delicious sweet. to satisfy the adult and kid - in all of us. ♪
♪ nutritious wheat for the adult you've grown into. and delicious sweet for the kid you'll never outgrow... feed your inner kidult... with frosted mini-wheats® if you have high blood pressure many cold medicines may raise your blood pressure. that's why there's coricidin® hbp. it relieves cold symptoms without raising blood pressure. so look for powerful cold medicine with a heart. coricidin® hbp.
i brto get us moving.tein i'm new ensure active high protein. i help you recharge with nutritious energy and strength. i'll take that. yeeeeeah! new ensure active high protein. 16 grams of protein and 23 vitamins and minerals. ensure. take life in. nobody's hurt,but there will you totstill be pain.new car. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do, drive three-quarters of a car?
now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. it's gotten squarer. over the years. brighter. bigger. thinner.
even curvier. but what's next? for all binge watchers. movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. we have more on what the united states can do to combat the militants coming up. but for now, we go back to brian williams at the breaks new desk. brian? >> lawrence, thanks. it's been reported the first of the french investigators left paris for brussels before the violence was all over friday night. in all, they conducted more than 150 raids in cities across france and, notably, in the belgian capital of brussels
today, in this search for the suspected terrorists who escaped the paris attacks still alive. nbc's keir simmons is in brussels for us tonight. >> good evening, brian. that fugitive, that wanted man who is believed fled paris as two others got to the border of france and belgium was stopped but then was released by police. salah abdeslam comes from this suburb of brussels and the fear is that he is still in this vicinity. the police have been searching for him. earlier today they closed off a number of streets. police commandos went from house to house. snipers on the roof. witnesses talked about hearing gunfire but in the end while they led some people away from a building, they do not appear to have found him. some family lives just across this square and this is an area where there has been increasing concerns about rising jihadism. there's a link between this area and a number of terrorist attacks including the 2004 madrid bombings and attacks on
the "charlie hebdo" magazine offices in paris. the question is, how did it happen? some people are saying the politicians here have just turned away, they closed their eyes and covered their ears and hope the problem will go away instead of of course it hasn't and has been increasing links to isis here. perhaps leading to those paris attacks. back to you. >> keir simmons in brussels. while keir was deliver that report we have just learned that french warplanes have again been in action in the skies over raqqah in syria tonight. the french have a single aircraft carrier, the charles de gaulle. they've been moving that toward the gulf. we don't know if these were carrier-based or land-based aircraft. how many of them, how many sword difficults, how many ordinance was dropped except they were in action again in the skies over syria. we're happy to be joined in the studio tonight by evan coleman, chief of research and development for an organization
called flash point. they do intelligence consulting. he is also a long-time msnbc terrorism analyst. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> to begin with, as we're all getting used to this story, what is it about belgium? >> it's interesting p a lot of people don't think about belgium as a hotbed of islamic mill tansy but this goes way back. as early as 1995, 1996, 1997. there were emerging in france by in northern france. i long the belgium border of heavily armed individuals with training in foreign conflict zone, primarily back then, afghanistan, bosnia. bringing back heavy weapons and think wanted to go to war with the states. unfortunately what we seen have s. that belgium welcomed in communities, done a poor job of integrating those immigrants into belgian society. as long as we have that sense of segregation, people don't always feel a sense of belonging. and so i think that feeds into the figures, the numbers. look at the numbers of people from belgium and france that
have gone to fight in syria. 500 or more from belgium, a country of 11 million people. 1500, maybe more, from france. it's amazing when you consider that a country like the united states, 300 million people, at most, maybe 100, maybe a few more have left to go to syria and iraq. that tells you something, there's something about these countries, and there's something about this societies there that is allowing these folks to come up. these were not syrians or iraqis. many of these folks were french, french nationals, belgian nationals, born there, grew up there. something happened there that pushed them along this route. they were certainly weaponized and appears anyway by isis. but something else radicalized them. it's important we understand those factors. >> isn't that dynamic going to worsen as muslim populations in europe that have been part of this refugee wave perhaps now get some distance on them from the standing populations in these countries in. >> weigh. and it goes beyond that, too, because you think about it,
critical elections coming in in france and germany. far right parties that are posed to make major victories. when i was a kid living in france, national front was a joke. it was a joke. no one was seriously vote for that party. now this is a major party. their posed to be a majority influence in the french government. these folks are neofascists. the danger is because of these attacks, french people are going to vote for these folks. it's disturbing. >> evan coleman, thank you very much for stopping by the studios tonight. lawrence, back to you. >> thanks, brian. coming up, stopping the islamic state and why president obama says sending american ground troops to syria is a mistake. >> our thoughts and prayers of course are very much with the victims, their families, and all of the people of france. and we will continue to keep them in our hearts in the days ahead. as my husband said on friday,
this was an attack not just on france, our dear friend and ally, but on all of humanity. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet?
romantic moments can happen spontaneously, so why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away.
why pause the moment? ask your doctor about cialis for daily use. for a free 30-tablet trial go to cialis.com [meow mix jingle slowly anright on cue.cks] [cat meows] ♪meow, meow, meow, meow... it's more than just a meal, it's meow mix mealtime. with great taste and 100% complete nutrition, it's the only one cats ask for by name. (vo) you can check on them. you can worry about them. you can even choose a car for them. (mom) honey, are you ok? (child) i'm ok. (announcer vo) love. (mom) we're ok. (announcer vo) it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.
breaking news now in the continuing air strikes in syria. u.s. officials tell nbc news for the third time in two days french and other coalition aircraft launched air strikes against islamic state targets tonight near raqqah which of course is the isis headquarters area in syria. and today in washington the push for war grew louder among republicans and got an assist from most of the american reporters at the president's press conference today in turkey. >> i guess the question is, and if you will forgive the language, is why can't we take out these bastards? >> the president said an american groud war against the islamic state would be a mistake. >> there had been a few who suggested that we should put large numbers of u.s. troops on the ground. it is not just my view but the view of my closest military and
civilian advisers, that that would be a mistake. >> joining us now lieutenant colonel anthony schaeffer, senior fellow with the london policy research who served as an intelligence officer in the army, and fellow at the institute for policy studies in washington and author of "understanding isis and the new global war on terror." anthony schaeffer, do you hear anything in the strategies being suggested as alternatives to what the president is doing, anything that would be more effective than what the president is doing? >> i think we have to understand, lawrence, that there are things we must do regarding, quote, unquote, boots on the ground. it doesn't have to be u.s. boots on the ground. i've said this amongst my conservative friends on capitol hill time and time again. we have trained the arab armies and previous guest talked about the sunni and shia. we have sunni force representative and accepted by
the populations we have to go back in and help resettle the land which isis taken over. we proposed nato type organization led by egypt, jordan, funded probably by the saudis. and the idea here is to actually work with compatible boots on the ground accepted by the population, not u.s. boots. i really don't -- i don't understand the conservatives call for quote, unquote, boots on the ground. it should not be u.s. boots on the ground. the moment we show up we become the issue, we become the target. nothing will be resolved. >> phyllis, war talk has started once again in washington. we've heard mitt times since 9/11 and there's something awfully repettive about it. it seems pretty consistent that everybody who is supposed forring the boots on the ground concept today was very much in favor of sending all those boots in to iraq.
>> that's absolutely right, lawrence. i think though one of the sprobs the range of discussion is quite narrow. we're hearing about boots on the ground or not boots on the ground. everybody is assuming that of course air strikes go forward. the reality is we have used military force in what we called a war against terror for almost 15 years now. and clearly it's failed. we saw the failure in paris on friday night. we saw the failure in beirut on thursday night. we saw the failure in ankara several weeks ago. we are seeing a failure of using military force of variety of kind, boots on the ground other people's boots on the ground, sneaker on the ground from special force, air strikes, drone strikes, none of that has worked. at the end of the day i think the reality is that terrorism survives war very well. people don't. we have the terrorism continuing and yet hundreds of thousands of people have been killed in these wars. i think we need to try something
else. it's not going to be quick. it's not going to be as dramatic as sending the -- sending the bombers, i think that unfortunately president elon seems to be channing president george w. bush and saying we will go to war without mercy that we must go to war against this crime that you can go to war against terrorism. and it's a war of vengeance. it's not a war of justice. i think that's a huge problem. >> jeb bush said this morning on "morning joe." >> this is the war of our time and we cannot do this by leading from behind. >> are you willing to say that we are going to have to send our forces over there and fight this battle alongside our am lies? >> absolutely we are. and we need to have a strategy. it needs to be clearly defined. it needs to be a strategy where we fight to win and then we pull out. >> we fight to win, and then we pull out. your reaction to that, colonel
schaeffer. >> well, look, i disagree a little bit about the whole terror issue. we have won every battle in the battlefield but we have to understand is terrorism is drawn to ungoverned space. libya is now become chaos. syria is chaos. afghanistan were the 9/11 attacks were planned from is chaos. we have to understand we have to worry about trying to bring order, governance to these areas. it doesn't have to be governance we accept. taliban need to find a way to reconcile with afghanistan. we should be out of that. i don't care which governance is there as long as they don't attack us. that should be the issue. if we can work with the folks locally that come to that conclusion, i don't care what governance is there as long as they choose to not be radicals and attack us. that's where we need to be more clear on how we go forward on this. not simply about terrorism but trying to re-establish order within the con instruct constru these nations. >> saudi arabia as not being an extremist element here.
you're difficueluding yourself. it decapitates people. it uses beheadings. >> they don't attack us though. that's the issue i'm talking about. >> i'm talking about what they do to their own people and people in the region. >> i tell you, why do we care? why do we care? >> i care because we are human beings. they are human beings. >> they don't hold our values? >> no, i think that we stop sending them $60 billion worth of weapons that end up in the hands of extremists and that they use -- >> saudi arabia does not furnish extremist weapons. >> no, the saudi is the biggest source from outside beyond the oil income and beyond the taxes. >> i agree that saudi arabia is the underlying current pushing these things forward. >> i think that's a given. their weapons to everybody and their brother in syria who says that they are -- >> turkey furnishes money to isis in the beginning. >> saud did di did, do.
we know that the 9/11 bombers were overwhelmingly saudi, some were egyptian. >> absolutely. >> this is not a government that we would -- we should be in my view supporting i'm just saying that the notion that you can sort of declare we're going to have these good guys that we think are good guys and that other people are going to accept them is simply not the case. >> i didn't call them good guys. i would not put that construct on these individuals. it's governance we should seek and stability and what form that is it may or may not be in favor of our side. >> we're going tv to leave that discussion there for tonight. thank you for joining us tonight. a new poll shows most americans oppose sending ground troops to fight the islamic state. that's next.
♪ do you really think that's a good idea? if everyone jumped off a cliff, would you do it too? you'll lose interest. it's just a phase. it hurts me more than it hurts you. where are your manners - were you raised by wolves? you're going to give me a heart attack. when you have kids, you'll understand. this is the life of a rebel. sorry, mom. i'm mary ellen, and i quit smoking with chantix. i have smoked for thirty years and by taking chantix, i was able to quit in three months. and that was amazing. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. it absolutely reduced my urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix.
some had seizures while taking chantix. if you have any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse or of seizures. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you have these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. tell your doctor if you have heart or blood vessel problems, or develop new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack or stroke. decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. most common side effect is nausea. i can't believe i did it. i quit smoking. ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. well, right now you can get 15 gigs for the price of 10. that's 5 extra gigs for the same price. so five more gigs for the same price? yea, allow me to demonstrate. do you like your pretzel? yea. okay, uh, may i? 50% more data for the same price. i like this metaphor. oh, it's even better with funnel cakes. but very sticky.
now get 15 gigs for the price of 10. and ca"super food?" is that recommend sya real thing?cedar? it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers, what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? ...or is a 423 enough? good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. sure... ok. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab.
chl. i could enkour tranlg president really to rally the world. their armies in a smart way, integrate our forces within a regional army. come up with a ground component to supplement the air campaign going on the ground and destroy the caliphate at its headquarters in raqqah. >> the art of political campaigning is to of course make what you want to do sound easy. sound like the obvious thing you want to do. >> will you at least be willing to send 10,000 u.s. troops over there? >> yes, i would. but, joe, i would engage other countries. i would tell other countries it's time for you to get out and fight and it's time for you to put up your troops and it's time for you to put this so-called boots on the ground. >> joining us now pulitzer prize winner author "jon meacham." jon meacham, the get the offer there guys to put the boots on the ground is the easy solution
of the day. >> it is. you know, one of the things that struck me the past couple of days and i don't mean this as criticism to the president, more an observation, in history, i really do think that we need a true national education about the region, about the issues, the origin, the options. remember when fdr wanted to explain the various theaters of world war ii, he asked radio listeners to go get a map and rand mcnally made a map. i think there's a real opportunity here for a more serious conversation about what the options are because right now this debate to me anyway feels untethered from reality for so many people. complicated, fluid situation. it leads itself to reflect partisans predesposed
dispositions. without more data, without more explanation, i don't think as a democracy we're going to come to a very good decision. >> one of the political data points of the day is a new poll showing 76% oppose sending ground troops to fight isis. a poll conducted in november 14th and 15th, so in the aftermath of what we saw in paris. >> interesting number. i think that's probably a reaction to our experience of the last 14 years now in iraq, in afghanistan. but, is it possible that those who want to project force on the ground there to also have a point. i just think it's a debate worth having. the president this afternoon seemed to assume in a way, a certain level of familiarity with the facts, with his view that i just think could be
better expressed and more fully expressed. those of us in the media, those of us who go about our daily lives and don't pay enough attention from time to time are just as cull. able in this, that's why i say it's not a criticism. it's an incredible important moment. and the more we know, go to a jeffersonian point, the value of the public is only as good as the education of its citizenry. i think right now we still live in a moment, in a time where talking points trump data points. >> we now have a oh of i think it's about 19 governors saying some version of i won't allow any syrian refugees to enter my state. apparently they don't know what the borders of their states are used for nothing other than in
determining taxation and who is taxed for living within those borders. they have no control over who enters a state from another state. but this passes at least the 19 states as a perfectly reasonable and floatable proposal by a governor. >> it proves the point i'm trying to make. apparently federalism and separation of powers escape these governors today. and, you know, we fought a rather bloody war in the middle of the 19th century over this question. so, you know, and you want to understand the passions and, you know, you've worked that side of the world. you know the capital. you know that the political instinct is to move quickly and to capitalize on this. but it's not doing anybody any good. and i think that what we have to figure out is how many
americans, when -- if you allow me -- when saddam hussein went into kuwait on 2nd of august, 1990, how many americans had an intelligence response to that? and right now i think still defining isis, defining the threat, figuring it out is something that requires a use of the educational part of the bully pulpit. >> that story about saddam going into kuwait is beautifully told in your book. jon, please come back on a night when we will have more time to dig into your new book. we would really like to do that. >> thanks, lawrence. coming up, a look ahead on what to expect tomorrow as that what to expect tomorrow as that manhunt continues. >>what time is it? what to expect tomorrow as that manhunt continues. it's go time. >>come on. let's go, let's go, let's go. woooo hoooo!! yeah!! i feel like i went to bed an hour ago. >>i'll make the cocoa. get a great offer on the car of your grown-up dreams at the mercedes-benz winter event. it's the look on their faces
that makes it all worthwhile. but, hurry, these offers end soon. thank you santa!!! to prove to you that aleve is the better choice this is claira. for her she's agreed to give it up. that's today? we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. after the deliveries, i was ok. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? for my pain, i want my aleve. get all day minor arthritis pain relief with an easy open cap. my psoriatic arthritis i'm caused joint pain.o golfer. just like my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and i was worried about joint damage. my doctor said joint pain from ra can be a sign of existing joint damage that could only get worse. he prescribed enbrel to help relieve pain and help stop further damage. enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections.
serious, sometimes fatal, events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. tell your doctor if you've been someplace where fungal infections are common, or if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. joint pain and damage... can go side by side. ask how enbrel can help relieve joint pain and help stop joint damage. enbrel, the number one rheumatologist-prescribed biologic. tonight we are all parisians. there's the old motto of this resilient city says, and as
parisians have painted across the social media in recent da , days,. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ it's more than tit's security - and flexibility. it's where great ideas and vital data are stored. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions from a trusted it partner. including cloud and hosting services - all backed by an industry leading broadband network and people committed to helping you grow your business. you get a company that's more than just the sum of it's parts.
one-on-one meeting with australian prime minister malcolm turnbo. in paris, secretary of state john kerry will meet tomorrow with french president francois hollande to consider their strategic options against the islamic state. in washington, homeland security secretary jeh johnson and james comey will brief house members on the paris attacks in a classified meeting. our coverage of the terror in paris continues with chris hayes. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. 27 hours after worse terrorist attack in europe and in decade, europe, middle east, the eu, u.s., broad er community of