tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC November 17, 2015 12:00am-1:01am PST
well, it's coming up on 2:00 in the morning in paris. that's hardball for now, and our coverage now continues with chris hayes. good evening from new york city, i'm chris hayes, 72 hours after the worst attack in france, e.u., russia, u.s., and broader nations find themselves in a cross roads. in a span of two weeks, isis murdered civilians in beruit, lebanon, paris, france, and possibly russian page passengers flying from egypt as well. they are said to be at war as they plot and carry out the atrocity, men, who so far, appear to be european nationals.
as french muslims, muslims around europe wait for the backlash to come as world leaders convene in turkey for the g20 and discuss proper responses as nations and churches and mosques and synagogues unite around the globe, and as hundreds of thousands of desperate refugees flee the horror of war and cruelty of isis now wonder if they will be denied safe harbor. a lot of late breaking developments on the day, and brian williams is on top of the breaking news. what's the latest, brian? >> thanks, light rain started falling in fairs five hours ago, blotting out the candles burning on the sidewalks, blotted out the chalk drawings people have made in memorial over the past two days, but still the people came out. they came out in their sadness. they came out in defiance. their president said they are a nation at war, and they came out beneath the beautiful colors lit
up on the tower after two days plunged into darkness. correspondent bill is in the center of paris for us tonight to set the scene and look at day in the investigation as well. bill, good evening. >> reporter: good evening, brian, a day of high emotions and warnings from french leaders, not only from the french president, who had a direct message for isis in the french parliament, he said, you won't destroy france. france will destroy you. it was also the day that french investigators named the man, the so-called master mind they believe is behind the paris massacres. this is the man france believes was behind the paris massacres. this isis propaganda video showing him once jailed in belgium, now believed to be in syria. what you can't see behind his vehicle are the bodies he's
about to drag on ropes. he was close to at least two of the paris killers. police are still hunting for this suspected accomplice, salah abdeslam, his brother believed to be a brother, and the other brother questioned and released after raids. more attacks in france are planned, the french prime minister warned today, which is why police raided more than 160 homes, arresting two dozen suspects and seizing dozens of guns and a rocket launcher. the french president addressing lawmakers vowing to destroy isis. ordering a french aircraft carrier closer to iraq and syria. a dozen french war planes hit isis overnight bombing its stronghold of syria in the biggest french raid so far.
in paris today, not the noise of war, but silence for the city's victims. millions remembering, those they can't forget, praying, too, for the critically ill. dozens of victims remain critically ill, clinging to life at this and other paris hospitals, shot multiple times and say doctors, utterly traumatized. i never received 50 patients together. >> one surgeon who served in afghanistan has never seen anything like it. >> worse than afghanistan? >> yes. >> must have looked like war here friday. >> it was a shooting of war, you know? >> france's muslim leaders condemned the killings. they honored the dead today and sent a message to isis. >> whatever you do, no matter how long it takes, we will beat you. >> reporter: and it's not just french police investigating
this, but it's police in germany, spain, and belgium, intelligence agencies in britain, the u.s., and israel, isis now a global threat, brian, demanding a global response. >> and, bill, along the same lines, i heard you say earlier this evening, it wasn't just the french people in the intended audience when the french president said they are a nation at war. i heard you say he was aiming for a different audience entirely. >> yes. when you think of what nato means, i mean, one of the clauses in nato is that if one of the countries is attacked, everyone should help it, should join in, possibly as far as going to take military action, so i think the president was not just speaking to the french people. i think he was prompting other nato nations, especially the united states, to help more.
it was interesting that at the beginning of his news conference in turkey today, president obama said very pointedly that the u.s. was going to give more intelligence to france, more quickly. i thought that signalled a very small shift in the military relationship between the united states and france, which, as we all know, has been catchy at times so i think the president along was calling on all nato countries to do more to have abide by the idea of collective defense, and i think that was aimed at the united states more than any other nation, brian. >> bill, thank you so much for reporting for us on a cold, rainy night in paris. as bill mentioned in the setup piece, a lot of police efforts were aimed almost immediately at belgium and nbc is there for us tonight. >> reporter: good evening, brian, that fugitive, wanted man who is believed to have fled
paris with two others got to the belgium, stopped, but released by the police. he comes from this suburb of brussels, and the fear is he is still in this vicinity. the police have been searching for him, earlier today, they closed off a number of streets. police commanders went from house to house. there were snipers on the roof, and witnesses talked about gunfire, and in the end, when nay led people away from a building, they do not have appear to have found him. over the week, they arrested seven people, five release, two charged. one of those released was salah's brother who came out today making a statement saying we don't know where he is. i'm innocent, and my parents are shocked and bemused by all of this. there's a sense of bemusement in the community as to how it's possible this particular suburb has been linked to a string of terrorist attacks going all the way back to the 2004 madrid bombings.
people, i think, here say they believe the young people here have been brainwashed. they say that there is a strong criminal element in this community that is very poor. they say there is drug dealing and even gun running and some of the people have become radicalized, and they have got involved with isis, around 500 more per capita than any other european country have left here and gone to fight in iraq and syria including with isis. many of them have come back, and, brian, the lesson people are talking about is that the politicians here have turned away. they have closed their eyes. they have covered their ears to the problem and hope it would go away, and instead, isis has grown stronger in the heart of europe. this capital city. brian? >> thank you, reporting tonight for us from belgium, and let's get the mood of the streets in the city of light tonight, nbc's richard louis is there for us.
richard, two things, number one, when the barricades come down and when people are allowed to go near where there's been such an awful loss of life that can take on a very spooky feeling, and after a trauma like this, there are stages. like shock and sadness and then denial and anger and defiance, and i imagine you have seen the whole kaleidoscope of emotions degrees your time there so far. >> reporter: brian, we have seen all three, seen on saturday, saw it on sunday, but you talk about barriers coming down at the theater. today, they opened the streets, we got close to the very theater where 89 people lost their lives, and that just happened today. we also saw the eiffel tower light up today. i think one of the conversations that sort of characterizes it for me, there was a woman who came by on the plaza here, a day ago, a woman in her 60, she said, richard, took my by me
elbow, went to the corner of the plaza, and said there's a sign here where it is secretary kerry mentioned that today, not toppled. richard, i've lived in this area for 50 years, and i'm not going to let the people topple me. i think that was a very clear indication of the spirit of the groups that are here in france, specifically here in paris, and i was mentioning earlier to you today on this very plaza, which is 400,000 square feet, amazing from noon to 4:00 filled halfway with those chalkings, statements about how they feel about their lives, statements how they feel about the terrorists, and statements about how they get through the three stages that you mentioned earlier. brian? >> msnbc on the streets of paris tonight, and chris hayes, the streets have seen so much
history in the city, not quite this much tragedy in over a generation. brian, back to you. >> thank you so much. joining us now, the foreign editor at the daily beast, and, christopher, you were there for the "charlie hebdo" attacks, and i was corresponding and reporting to folks from paris for both, and wondered if you could talk about the mood of this in the wake of what happened at "charlie hebdo"? >> the thing to remember about charlie, that was an indicative attack, there was a van debt that, threatening it, and so on, and there was a feeling this was a terrible atrocity, assault on the freedom of the press, and all those issues, but it was about them. i hate to say it, but people reacting to the attack on the
kosher supermarket in the same way. it was about them. these attacks were the softest possible targets, cafes in the streets, working class people, this was about us, anyone hit any any reason. there was no warning, no idea they had done anything that would provoke this attack. people are just going to a rock concert. people are in cafes smoking cigarettes, drinking wine, people drive up and shoot the hell out of them and blowing themselves up. that settles in and hurts people, and i think that there is a level of fear here that there was not after "charlie hebdo" as bad as that was. >> the president said today among the killed were 19 different nationalities
represented, a snapshot of a multicultural and pluralistic place of paris. he had the idea of a war of civilizations, take a listen. >> translator: this is not a war of civilizations because those kin dreads do not represent a civilization. we are at war against jihadist terrorists who hate the world. we live to be merciless, routeless, we know, and it is cruel to say it. it is french people who killed other french people on friday. >> is there a sense in france of what the word means? he talked about war, but what's it look like now? >> reporter: well, you know, there's a lot of action, in
there's a lot of action, in raqqah, the capital, and they are trying to come to terms with what it means, are we worried every day, every hour, a new attack? there's a possibility that is the case. is it going to be enough to rock n' roll over syria and bomb cities and towns and insulations or does that incite people more? it's open questions. that's why i think the president would like some help from the international community, and i think it's kind of upsetting to people that he's not getting did. >> all right, thank you very much. still ahead, continuing coverage of the terrorist attacks in paris and president obama's defense of keeping ground troops out of syria amid renewed criticism of the isis strategy.
suffering and keep the american people safe. if there's a good idea out there, then we're going to do it. >> facing a barrage of questions of the u.s. strategies against isis, president obama forcibly defending the policies saying american efforts degrade and will work with time, and more of the president's rebuke of the critics, and why he doesn't think the u.s. should send troops into europe next.
america look tough or make me look tough. >> today, president obama forcibly defended his administration's strategy dpeps isis, the group that claimed responsibility against the paris attacks. earlier in the g20, the president said the u.s. is intensifying its collision air strikes in the region, increasing assistance to local ground forces in syria, iraq, while strongly defending the decision not to send ground troops into syria. >> what's been interesting is in the aftermath of paris, i listened to those who have suggested something else needs to be done, typically the things they suggest need to be done are things we are already doing. the one exception is that there had been a few who suggested that we should put large numbers of u.s. troops on the ground,
and it is not just my view, but it's the view of my closest military and civilian advisers that that would be a mistake. not because our military could not march into mosul or raqqah or ramadi and temporarily clear out isis, but because we would see a repetition of what we've seen before which is if you do not have local populations that are committed to inclusive governance and who are pushing back against ideological extremes, that they resurface unless we're prepared to have a permanent occupation of these countries. >> joining me now, congressman michael burgess, and, congressman, do you favor ground troops in iraq or in syria? >> i would not mind syrian
ground troops leaving western europe and headed home to protect their homeland. i think that's a good idea. >> but american troops, do you -- are you -- we can't control them. we control american troops. are you in favor of american troops placed in iraq other syria? >> i would be in favor of us having a discussion about the strategy. i'd be in favor of the administration being a little more forthcoming in sharing a little bit more than certainly what has been shared with the member at my level to this point. look. i signed on to jim mcgovern, the democrat of massachusetts, signing his letter saying let's have a debate about an authorization for use of military force in syria. right now, we don't have one, and there's military activities occurring in that country without that authorization. i think we should have that. debate. i think we should that discussion. >> is it a failure of house leadership? they control votes on the floor,
other things have been put up, why not an authorization of military force in. >> well, we can point fingers at each other, but i say to you we have not seen an overarching strategy come back to us from the administration. we've heard speeches, but we've seen no strategy. look, chris, i was in mosul several time in the last decade. the president does not even give me a lecture of mosul. we did hold it, cleared it out, but we walked away from it in august -- 2011, i thought at the time, this is not a good idea, they do not tolerate a vacuum. i assumed iran would fill it. i had no idea about isis, nobody did at that point, but the fact of the matter remains, you leave an empty space in that part of the world, someone is going to fill it. >> the president's remarks about people urging things what they are already doing, what's the concrete steps here? people talked about arming kurdish forces, air support, what we are doing, are there
concrete things you want to see done? >> well, i think the first thing after the events of three days ago, the first thing i'd like to see done is hit the pause button on further syria refugees coming to the country, 1700 already placed here with the plans for a lot more over this next fiscal year. in fact, we had a hearing in the hesinki commission talking about the vetting process after i asked about it, and, basically, chris, five agencies are going to vet these folks before they settle in the country, but the problem is there's too many people involved. nobody has veto power over the other. >> do you have evidence to present the 1700 are connected to terrorism or any reason to suspect they are? >> look, after last friday night, i think for those of us who have a keen interest in protecting our country, we ought
to hit the pause button, rethink what we're doing. >> just on that question -- >> just to -- >> the fbi said they can't vet the people because they don't have a data base. don't you think we need a data base first? >> congressman, is it your understanding, as it is mine, that they carry it out in paris are european nationals, belgium citizens, frenchmen, and are you in support of stopping visa waivers for belgium and french citizens? >> put the pause button on people from syria when we have no idea who nay are, why they are coming here, or what they intend to do. our own director of the fbi said we don't have a data base to compare. >> the french and belgium nationals, you favor ending theware for them? >> look, i think what i favor is hit the pause button until you know what's going on. the president talks about 10,000, 65,000, 100,000. we don't know what the number is.
>> congressman michael burgess, thank you for your time. joining me now, democrat from california, conman, i want to get your response to the colleague there on a number of things, on the question of syria refugees, your response? >> it's the tradition of the country to be a haven for people fleeing persecution and don't need a knee jerk reaction we stop taking refugees. we have to do the best we can to vet the people, but i don't think that we want to turn our back on the worst refugee crisis since world war ii. we have an ethical obligation and it's in the proudest traditions of the country. >> as to the other question here about the authorization of use of military force, why has congress not actually 15 months into the campaign against isis actually passed anything? >> well, chris, as you know, i've been pushing the issue for a year now with amendments on the house floor and letters to
our leadership. it's a terrible advocation of congressional responsibility. i think initially there was a con cluns of interest between the executive saying they felt they needed one and congress not voting on one. ultimately, the administration sent us to propose it, hfs rejected, and rather than producing something else, the speaker threw up the hands, we're not going to have a debate or vote on this. at a time when we are sending special operators very much in harm's way and already have troops in iraq, i think it is completely irresponsible, and we will root the day we did this because it means congress took itself out of a system of checks and balances when it comes to the executive's power to make war. >> are you satisfied the white house, does, in fact, have an achievable strategy in terms of defeating isis? >> the administration has a strategy to try to squaez isis territorial and the social media
campaign, but concerned, chris, the timetable is too long, that isis will be allowed to maintain its space in iraq and syria from which it can plan and plot and resource attacks against a europe and the united states, so i think we do have to do something to change the dynamic on the ground. one of the things i'd like to see the administration re-examine, and that is the possibility of establishing a buffer zone or safe zone to test the turks who have been advocating this whether they are willing to put troops within that zone across the syria border to protect this zone, if we protect it from the air. that kind of a partnership with turkey in the gulf countries may be enough to start to change the dynamic on the ground, but something has to shrink isis space more quickly than we've been able to do where we're at significant risk of attacks like we saw in paris. >> congressman, thank you for joining me. >> thanks, chris. still ahead, latest from the
france, and it's just after 2:00 a.m. here, and we are at the site where people people came out today to lay flowers and also light candles to remember those loss in the horrific attacks on friday. now, one of the people we met who was a survivor of one of the attacks was a young journalist named charlotte. she's from britain originally, but here, working as a journalist, and she was out to dinner with friends, and that's when the attack happened, but she came here today with a specific message for isis. >> today, those of you watching at home, who could imagine this happening on your doorstep, do not let yourselves be ruled by fear. the islamic state groups are trying to use these symbols of our daily lives for their own political end, and we will not
let them. >> reporter: so we were hearing from charlotte and her message about not wanting isis to win, making sure that people know that she is not going to settle for anything less than the life she had before, and we certainly hope for her and all for people that live here in paris they get it back. all right. robert, thank you. hopefully the commotion dies down bind you, appreciate it. up next, what the attacks signal about a changing strategy by isis and first defector after the break.
and the group's withdrawal marked first significant loss of territory, and with the forces depleted in the foreign troops, the defector said leadership had to rethink how to best make use of the loyalists from outside iraq and syria. they are now asking people to, quote, stay in their countries and fight there, kill citizens, blow up buildings, whatever they can do. just the last few weeks, we've seen that plan in action. not just friday's attack in paris, but double suicide bombings climbed by isis killing dozens last week, devastating on a pro-kurdish rally last month, in which turkish officials linked to isis, and downing of a plane in egypt evidence suggests caused by a bomb planted by isis. we have author of the isis apocalypse, and, will, the book
is excellent. i learned a lot from it. >> thanks. >> second of all, what do you think of this? for a long time it seemed that the self-proclaimed call fate was focused largely on its sort of traditional territorial conquest. it seems to have entered into a new phase. >> that's right. the islamic state always spoke the language of global jihad but decided to act locally, and with the syria civil war and failure of the iraqi political system, they focused on state building at home in the middle east. over the past few weeks, their strategy seems to have shifted, and we think it's because they begun lose a lot of territory over the past year, they've lost 25% of their land, and they have lost tens of thousands of fighters, as you said in the introduction. >> so what does this mean? i mean, when people talk about disrupting, defeating isis, if this is now the strategy, what's it mean for policymakers as they counter that?
>> i think in syria and iraq, the obama administration has the right policy. put a lot of pressure on the organization, one big reason why it's shifted to terrorist attacks abroad, it's a sign of weakness, but, unfortunately, we'll see more attacks in the future. the other thing i would say is the islamic state has a lot of other territory to move to in the middle east because of all the security backings that are opening up with the political meltdown in the region. >> there's been discussion politically about the notion of the basically phrases used by leaders, radical islam, for example, they are tremendously important, moral cowardness, not to use that term, but someone who studied the ideology of isis, what's your take on that? >> well, i come from an academic angle, used to talking about islamism as a political movement, and we talk about militant islamism.
these guys are jihads, ultraconservative form of sunni islam. i understand the politics and makes for good talking points, but it does not provide analytical clarity. >> one of the striking parts of the book is just learning how he essentially in an american prison in iraq essentially crossed pollinated with the sere your offices and they formged this ghastly alliance between the very violence extreme version of islamism and know-how of the state. >> it was a nasty brew. we didn't know it. all the guys used to running in the authoritarian state met up with guys who wanted a new authoritarian state, and we are seeing the marriage of those ideas years ago.
>> these are the people kept in american custody in a prison that one would later call the academy for the kinds of sort of radicalization that was happening there. >> that's right. this is where a lot of the former saddamists were indoctrinated, but it's worth knowing those rubbing shoulders was radicalized on his own before the american invasion. it's the invasion that gave him an opportunity to thrive. >> a lot of people talking about what isis wants out of this, and real debate about that. what's your sense of what they want out of an atrocity like the one committed in paris or beirut? >> well, they may want the same thing al qaeda wanted with the 9/11 attacks. al qaeda wanted its enemies in the west to leave it alone, but
if that did not succeed, they were willing to accept that's all in with military to bring on a battle in which they present themselves as the defender of muslim. the americans initially did not oblige, but went in with air power and special forces, and sent in ground troops and also in iraq and obliged al qaeda, and the worry is we'll do the same thing in and reaction to these attacks. >> thank you. >> thanks. president obama's response to blowing calls to block entry of syria refugees into the united states. that's next.
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president obama today rejected calls in the wake of the arrest paris terrorist attacks to reverse the plan of a relatively small number of syria refugees in the u.s. saying we should not equate the victims of terrorism as terrorists. governors in 18 states oppose accepting refugees for now or permanently, it is not clear they can legally keep them out. >> there's a greater nexus with syria to terrorism than any other political body across the globe. as a result, the united states and the state of texas has to be extra cautious as it concerns anybody who is entering from syria. >> republican presidential candidate, ben carson, calling on congress today to stop the obama administration from bringing in refugees main tapes it is too dangerous, claiming, quote, there's no ability to vet the people letting refugees in the country without vetting, you put americans at risk. fact checking that claim, our refugee protection, human rights first, working with refugees
through the process. you heard our guests say we really don't know what we're doing with this. can you just describe what kind of process the refugee goes through? >> more closely voted than any population that comes to the united states. first, they are identified abroad. they are registered. information is taken by the u.n. refugee agency. then before they can be resettled to the united states, they are interviewed one on one by a train departmental of homeland security officer, a barrage of checks conducted then by u.s. intelligence agencies, by the fbi, the department of defense, the department of homeland security. they are so incredibly thoroughly vetted that, you know, they really present absolutely no risk to this country. >> and, in fact, it is been trickle of people coming into the country. to be clear, there's a huge difference between the kind of thing europe is grappling with, waves of people on the shores of greece making their way through
the e.u. and what's happening in the u.s. >> these are vulnerable refugee families who have been identified specifically to be resettled to the united states. u.s. is essentially hand picking the people and vetting them through a special process. >> ted cruz today, a son of a refugee, says he's going to introduce legislation that will bar muslim syria refugees. any precedence for the u.s. government essentially doing religious weeding out as it evaluates people? >> united states is a country with a diverse and rich religious population. we should really be true to american ideals here. this is a chance to really show what america values are and to really demonstrate u.s. leadership. >> one of the things, i want to play you something that trump said earlier tonight about the refugee population, get your take on it. take a listen. >> we have a president that wants to take hundreds of thousands, hundreds of thousands
of people and move them into our country. we don't -- think of it. and we don't even know who they are. there's no paperwork. there's no anything. they are strong looking guys, powerful looking guys, so i said, why are they not fighting for their country? that's number one. then i say, is this a trojan horse? >> okay. so two things there. hundreds of thousands of people. the president calling for us to take hundreds of thousands of people? >> no, the united states and president committed to resettle only 10,000 syria refugees, a drop in the bucket compared with the millions that are being hosted by key u.s. allies like jordan. >> second point is something i heard from quite a few conservatives, republicans, who is that this is strong looking guys, powerful looking guys, they are essentially all young fighting age men. how does that line up with the actual demographic for the refugees? >> the refugees resettling in
the united states are actually coming from the middle east, some in urban areas, refugees that have been monitored for years, their families, their are torture survivors, children, women, these are not some kind of trojan horse or something like that. they are so incredibly thoroughly vetted that, you know, they really present absolutely no risk to this country. >> and, in fact, it has been trickling of people coming into this country. state or not.
they have absolutely valid status and governors can't decide who can come in and out of tear state. that's not what america is about. >> funs the federal government under the powers granted by the constitution to local immigration dprants that status, they have freedom of movement just as anyone else would. all right. eleanor, thank you have much. thanks, for clarifying. both ted cruz and jeb bush have suggested in recent days, america should accept christian refugees from syria, not muslims. cruz said there is no meaningful risk of christians committing acts of terror. we will show you what he said next.
well, maybe we should just admit the christians not the muslims. that's shameful. that's not american. it's not who we are. we don't have religious tests to our compassion. >> president obama responding to calls from ted cruz and jeb bush to accept christians but not muslims. he settles people in the u.s. is becoming a major point of conflict in the wave of the terrorist attacks. at least 18 governors saying their states will keep them out. the gop presidential candidates xoeting to take the hardest line. rand paul competing a senate bill to bar refugees from syria and other countries. ris christie up to five-years-old. ted cruz says he plans to introduce a bill specifically planning muslims from entering the u.s. there are new reports,
republicans may threaten another government shutdown over blocking refugees from coming in. this afternoon, mike huckabee tweeted house speaker paul ryan will not flee, he needs to step down and let someone else lead. our director of the arab american association of new york, linda, your response to this issue. >> as an american born an raised in brooklyn an runs an organization of immigrants in new york city, i'm so disturbed what i'm listening to. religion test. i want to understand what that looks like. we are trying to bar the very people running away from the same terrorism that we're talking about. the syrian refugees left tear country because of isis. because of the regime, that's why they flee to places like europe. our country is known to be welcoming refugees. our statue of liberty, i'm disturbed by the people in our leadership and i'm grateful for
president obama to stand up to this rhetoric. >> i mean, runer murdock one of the most powerful men in the world, obama facing enormous opposition in accepting refugees, maybe make a special exception for proven christians. can you imagine a bureaucracy able to to tell? >> are they going to do a blood test and it turns into wine? it's ludicrous. the majority of the refugees are young children. these are young children who have seen so much trauma, violence, potentially their parents massacred. they have been displaced. some have drown odden the what i to europe. we're taking a drop in the bucket to be the greatest nation in the world, one of the most wealthiest nations for us to be debating over 10,000 refugee, we're not making a dent. >> okay. what do you say to people you just saw, i want to be clear about what we know what happened
on the bodies of oun one of the assailants was a syrian passport. it is likely a fake passport. it shows stamps and he came in the directions many refugees are using, whether through greece, macedonia or on into europe. people say, look, we can't afford taking any more risk. there has to be a limit. >> we heard from the previous vetting process, i know some of the clients i served, i dell people, we're not basing our decisions on unconfirmed information. we still do not know if that syrian passport belonged to one of these people. let's remember most of those committing these attacks, they're are belgium, from france, translator not people showing up where we are now seeing the french bombing a country that has a place with huge populations of civilians
still. people have to understand isis is playing over the divide and conquer. they want the world to hate muslims. they don't want the american government to see muslims as their partners. they want to tell you they hate you. look at the vulnerability of these men sympathizers of isis. >> i imagine in the work that you have done face to tase with people that have come from these place, people talk about the irony the tragic irony of being terrorized by these monster, frankly, who have been committing unspeakably barberous acts. to find yourself unwelcome because of another act they committed. >> people need to know the largest group of victims of isis are muslim. muslim are the largest victims, group of victims. they've seen trauma, torture. they have seen thing unfathomable that we as americans will probably never experience. here we are telling them, no, you can't come to our country. you can't see normalcy in your life. you can't see safety. this is not the american way. that's not what we are known for.
>> thank you very much. >> that is all in for this evening. the "rachel maddow" show starts right now. >> thank you. >> thank you at home for joining us. i'm rachel maddow in new york. richard engel is live in paris. i'm looking forward to doing this hour with you. thank you for being here, my friend. >> reporter: absolutely. >> we will be co-anchoring for most of this hour, because we basically want to combine the latest from our news room here in new york with richard's latest reporting from on the ground at the site of friday's terrorist attacks in paris. we will be talking about that. there is one specific thread from the investigation into the paris attacks that i think is worth pullinger right at the outset. it's a through line of the investigation that you can see now and i think that through