tv MSNBC Live MSNBC November 17, 2015 3:00pm-4:01pm PST
coming on. i know you have votes, you guys have been busy. senator manchin, always good to have you on. >> we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." it's been a busy week and it's only tuesday. stay with msnbc for more continuing coverage. erica hill will be live in paris right now to pick everything pup. welcome to msnbc live coverage of the terror attacks in paris. i'm erica hill. we are following several major developments at this hour. first off, german police right now scouring a stadium in hanover, where they are looking for explosives. they say there was a, quote, concrete threat situation there. authorities had canceled a soccer match set to be played between germany and the netherlands and evacuated the stadium. so far, we are told they have not found any explosives nor made my arrests. meanwhile, in france, police are asking for help identifying this man, one of the suicide bombers involved in the attacks. they call him the mastermind of the stade de france attack, but
do not know his name. and russia announcing the passenger plane that crashed in egypt earlier this month was brought down by a bomb. 224 people died in that event. russia now saying it wants revenge. at this minute, house lawmakers are being briefed by the white house about the paris attacks and we are live on capitol hill this hour, watching to see as that meeting ends and to get a little more information for you on that. we begin tonight with a series of reports. nbc's claudia lavanya is in molenbeek, belgium, and mohyeldin is with us as well. claudio, good evening. >> reporter: good evening, erica. i'm standing right in front of the apartment where salah abdeslam grew up. that's his family over there on the first floor, you can probably see behind me, the lights are still on on the first floor of that building where the father, the mother, and the
brother, mohammed lived there. mohammed went on camera a couple of times in the last couple of days. he was arrested among the seven people arrested here in molenbeek last friday, but he was released. the police doesn't believe he's connected in any way to the attacks in paris. but today he went on again, on french television, to make an appeal to his brother, salah. he said that he should turn himself in. now, the brother doesn't know if salah is still in belgium, still here in this neighborhood, is elsewhere, of course. he is the most wanted man in europe. and of course the fact that he's still on the loose has triggered scares and threats everywhere in europe, not only in belgium, as you've seen in hanover, as you've mentioned, when they canceled that game, the netherlands, germany, the german interior minister just at a press conference about an hour ago, and he said he had credible threats. he said there was good reasons to cancel that game and that he would have been irresponsible to continue with the game, even
though he did not elaborate on what that particular threat was, he said there were no explosives found despite the reports in german media that an ambulance outside or inside the stadium containing explosives were found. erica? >> claudio lavanya there for us, thank. russia, meantime, offering a $50 million reward to find the terrorists who blew up a passenger jet over the sinai peninsula, killing the 24 people. russia now saying a bomb roughly the equivalent of two pounds of tnt exploded onboard that plane nearly two weeks ago. an egyptian official tells nbc news two employees from the sharm el sheikh airport have been detained in connection with the bombing. russian president vladimir putin is vowing imminent retribution. ayman mohyeldin is live for us in cairo this evening. good evening. >> reporter: good evening, ereka. the news was probably not much of a surprise from western intelligence agencies and others. they've already, if you recall,
have already come out with their conclusion, saying that it was more likely than not that the plane flying over the sinai peninsula was brought down as a result of a bomb. but russia's announcement, the head of its intelligence service, coming out and saying that it was an explosive device, based on testing of the sand in the fuselage itself, that led russian officials to believe that, in fact, it was a small amount of tnt, they believe that brought down the plane over the egyptian sinai peninsula. here in cairo, officials say they're going to take the russian conclusion into their own report, but they, so far, say they don't have any criminal evidence of any criminal activity, rather, to suggest it was a bomb that brought it down. you talked about the russian president, well, he vowed revenge. here's thwhat he had to say abo the perpetrators of this attack. >> we should not apply any time limits. we should know them all by name. we should search for them everywhere, wherever they are hiding. we should find them in any spot on the planet and punish them.
>> meanwhile, russia says it's going to step up its campaign against isis. we saw that today in continues air strikes against various targets inside the country. the russian president has ordered his military to work closely with french allies in the region who have also stepped up their military campaign against isis following that deadly terrorist attack in paris. here in egypt, without that travel from russia, the tourism economy will suffer big-time, and that is something weighing heavily on the minds of egyptian officials. they have stepped up security at the airport. they say they're going to increase screening of luggage and baggage and even personnel that work at all of cairo's international airports. now, there was some confusion today about what was going on with some personnel at the airport. the ministry of interior here came out and said that there have been no arrests, no arrests made in connection with the ongoing investigation, but other reports, local media reports and government officials were telling sources that they were, in fact, questioning personnel that were working at sharm el
sheikh airport. erica? >> ayman mohyeldin for us in cairo tonight, thank you. i want to bring in now don umbrel berelli, an msnbc contributor. nice to see you tonight. if we look at this and step back for a minute. so we have paris, we have these new developments on the russian plane, we have the bombings in beirut. we have the situation now in germany, tonight. that is so spread out. how do you effectively mount a strategy to deal with all of this? >> it is a very difficult situation. there's so many moving parts right now and they're moving very rapidly, as you said. you've got german, you've got france, you've got belgium, you've got egypt. the real secret here is the coordination that the various intelligence and law enforcement agencies are getting the information and sharing it with all the partners. and that is one of the reasons we heard that the fbi dispatched fbi agents to paris to
supplement the agents that were already there on the ground. and i assume that a lot of this sharing is going on, as we speak. >> so we know that sharing, that coordination is essential, moving forward. i know you've said in the past, too, one of the things that can be most effective in terms of getting intelligence, to get somebody inside that organization. isis, though, from the outside, does not look like the type of organization that is easy to infiltrate, because it seems, it's such a brainwashed organization, to get in there, and to be able to successfully get that information and those tips out. is that even an option? >> it is a very good option. i mean, yes, it's a difficult organization to infiltrate, but security agencies, that's how they make their living, by finding these difficult organizations and figuring out ways to get people on the inside, to get that, you know, to get that inside information. and sometimes, it's not even all that complicated. i mean, it's -- you have -- look, in the paris situation, you have family members that knew many of these attackers pb and chances are, those family members might have seen
something, heard something, that gave them cause for suspicion and these are the type of things that you encourage people, when they have this type of information, to bring it forward, to law enforcement. and i get it. it's not always easy to turn in, say someone that's a family member or a good friend, but these are the kind of actions that can save lives. >> having been in charge of this joint special force terrorism task force, where are they focusing on tonight? >> well, there's a lot of things going on at once. number one, you've got the crime scene, itself. you've got physical evidence that's been collected from all these various scenes. we've heard reports of syringes. there could be evidence of a bomb factory. you've got this cell phone that was recovered and maybe that could be a big clue, if it's actually a legitimate phone that was used by one of the co-conspirators and not just some kind of a, something left behind for false leads, for
example. you have so many interviews that are taking place of people that knew these attackers. and then you've got a lot of anonymous tips coming in, and your known sources that are giving you information. so you have a lot of information coming from various sources and that needs to be analyzed and distilled. >> msnbc contributor done borelli, appreciate your insight tonight, thank you. still to come, opposition to resettling refugees in the u.s. still growing in some circles. so would the u.s. perhaps change its policy? plus, france continues its assault on isis targets in syria, but are those air strikes enough to counter the threat. and harrowing tales of survival from paris. we'll share some of those stories with you when our coverage continues. the cold truth is, (coughing) you can't work from home when you're sick. you need real relief. alka-seltzer plus day cold & flu has three cold symptom fighters to relieve your tough symptoms. (truck horn) alka-seltzer plus.
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york for a moment. we have some breaking news when it comes to the 2016 race for president. that news coming out of the state of louisiana. craig melvin is in new york with an update on that. craig, my friend, good evening. >> reporter: good evening to you. and then there were 14. bobby jindal, louisiana's former governor announcing just a few moments ago that he is dropping out of the 2016 race. it was a campaign that a lot of folks said never really took off. jindal now the third candidate to drop out. also the third governor to drop out, as well. rick perry of texas dropped out. so did scott walker. in his announcement a few moments ago, jindal saying, quote, it's just not my time. not ruling out another possible run at the white house one day. but, again, the news right now, bobby jindal, no longer a candidate for president. erica? >> all right, craig melvin, in new york. thank you. meantime, back here in paris, we will continue to talk about not only the attacks here, but how
that is resonating back in the u.s., including now, an increasingly important conversation about the state of refugees and whether or not they will be welcomed into the united states. more on that when we return. the new 2016 ram limited. you don't have to be a king to be treated like one. ♪ can a a subconscious. mind? a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul?
can a business be...alive? the refugee crisis is top of mind in washington this evening. administration officials are holding a classified briefing on capitol hill at this hour with members of the house, as pressure builds from governors and lawmakers. house speaker paul ryan earlier today demanding a halt in the flow of syrian refugees to the united states. ryan is coordinating a republican-led task force to examine the vetting process and says he hopes to get legislation
on the floor as soon as this week. >> our nation has always been welcoming, but we cannot let terrorists take advantage of our compassion. this is a moment where it's better to be safe than to be sorry. so we think the prudent, the responsible thing is to take a pause in this particular aspect of this refugee program in order to verify that terrorists are not trying to infiltrate the refugee population. >> in the meantime, at least 29 governors now say they are opposed to allowing syrian refugees to come to their states. all but one of those governors are republican. when we talked to them at this time last night, there were on 17 governors. all of this as the refugees themselves also speaking out. >> when i just came, it was very, very hard. n now i am okay, i'm fine. i love here. if they're forced to leave their country and try to be in another country and this country is not opening the door, they will be stuck in the middle. >> not everybody syrian is isis.
it's isis, maybe one person syrian. i want to send message for american people. we are human. we are human. >> nbc's luke russert is live on capitol hill. luke, what's the latest out of that briefing. >> reporter: hey, there, erica. the intelligence briefing classified for members of congress is ongoing. i can tell you that the senate intelligence committee had a classified briefing earlier and they said that u.s. investigators were on the ground in paris, where you are right now. they're not participating in the anti-terror raids, but they're keeping u.s. government officials involved in what exactly the daily musings are over there. now, the syrian refugee crisis you just referred to, that is an issue that is getting a lot of attention here on capitol hill. we can report that the house gop task force that was put together this morning by house majority leader kevin mccarthy and the
committee chairman, they have released some of their preliminary findings of what they would like to see in legislation to go on the floor later this week. they want, before any syrian refugee could come to the united states, that the dni, the fbi, and homeland security would also attest that individual is safe. then they would like to see the fbi director personally sign off on each syrian refugee. and then they would like an inspector general to have monthlily reports to congress about the security of those syrian refugees. those are very stringent, arduous plans there for syrian refugees, which one aid told me is mainly created so it makes it so hard, it in fact means they can't come at all. that's what we're looking at right now for legislation. it could go on the house floor as early as thursday. not clear if president obama would sign that education are or if democrats would support it, but that gives you an idea where some members of congress are
right now, erica. >> and you said monthly check-ins, luke. so is the thinking that any syrian refugee who made it through that whole other process would every month be subject to checking in? >> reporter: it's unclear if that individual had to check in every month. but it's more along the line that congress would like monthly report tons safety and security of the vetting process itself to make sure the plan is running smoothly. that being said, the vetting process as of right now, erica, it already takes 18 to 24 months and administration officials have said it's very much, in fact, security. this is definitely a showdown we're going to see between republicans in the house. >> that will keep you busy up there on the hill. luke russert, thank you very much. e.j. dionne joining us right now. he's a "washington post" columnist and msnbc contributor. nice to see you as well tonight. >> good to be here. >> as luke pointed out, this process is already fairly stringent. it takes 18 to 24 months, as we know. and as we spoke about last night on this program with ari melber, simply from a legal perspective, the states cannot trump the federal government in this case.
so even with everything that we see going on, is this sort of a moot point? >> well, i think it's a lot of posturing on the part of all these governors, who are just trying to make a point that i am doing all i can to keep our state safe, and in some cases, there's a real ideological opposition to immigration more generally. on the one hand, this is a hard issue. and i think in principle, americans ought to be able to agree on two ideas. one is, we have always thought of ourselves as a haven for people who are suffering. we've been more or less generous at different times in our history. but as that gentleman said in the setup piece, you know, we are human. these are human beings. on the other hand, yes, you need a very careful vetting process, because it is not inconceivable that isis would try to sneak somebody in, in the refugee flow. that's where we should have a conversation. a good goal, how do we make it
happen. instead, i think this is rapidly becoming a very partisan and ideological issue, and there are real differences between the parties. the public religion research institute issued is a poll today, and one of the questions was whether people believe that islamic values were at odds with american values. 76% of republicans said they were, only 43% of democrats said that. so there is sort of a difference in view on a very fundamental question. >> we are seeing now, not surprisingly, the candidates on the trail weighing in on this. interestingly, jeb bush sort of breaking with his party, breaking with party ranks. i think we may have a little bit of sound from what he had to say. >> the answer to this, though, is not to ban people from coming. the answer is to lead to resolve the problem in syria. i don't think we should eliminate our support for refugees. it's been a noble tradition in our country. >> do you think that the republican governors who are
barring or trying to refuse these refugees entrance to their state are doing the right thing? >> i think they're doing the right thing, but i think there ought to be a pause for traditional screening to make sure every governor and the american people know exactly how it's going to be done. >> and we're also hearing from hillary clinton, of course, who's saying, talking about in her tweets, the idea we turn away refugees because of religion is a new low. how prominently does this now feature on the trail for the 2016 candidates? >> well, i think on the republican side, you have a party who, a, is very anti-immigration or has a very strong anti-immigration part of it now. and you've got a very strong and i think dangerous for us, by the way, as a country, anti-muslim feeling. we can't turn the battle against extremism into a battle against somebody's religion, against islam. i think what jeb bush is doing is backing away from something he said. he said, you know, well, perhaps we should let in christian refugees. now he seems to be more open.
we cannot have religious tests for refugees. that's totally against, i think, our constitution and our tradition. >> e.j. dionne, nice to see you tonight. thanks for being with us. >> good to be with you. still to come from paris, isis clearly has its sights set well beyond iraq and syria. so does the u.s. strategy reach as far? and two experts share their perspective on just how safe we are at home. we'll be right back.
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i've never been more concerned. i read the intelligence faithfully. isil is not contained. isil is expanding. >> senator dianne feinstein there, speaking yesterday on msnbc. just last week, president obama said isis was contained. since then, the militant group has claimed responsibility for bombings in beirut that ikilled dozens of people, wounded 239 others, and on friday here in
paris, unleashing the deadly attacks at multiple locations. isis is also believed to be responsible for the downing of a russian passenger yet over egypt, less than three weeks ago. president obama reiterated the u.s. strategy to fight isis yet, when speaking at the g-20 summit in turkey. >> strengthening syrian and iraqi forces and kurdish forces that are prepared to fight them, cutting off their borders, and squeezing the space in which they can operate until, ultimately, we're able to defeat them, that's the strategy we're going to have to pursue. >> the administration's strategy has had its share of critics. so is it reallistic? joining me with more tonight, retired u.s. general, barry mccaffrey, and msnbc news military analyst. good to have you with us tonight, sir. >> good to be here, erica. >> as we look at the strategy, this focus on containment. there has been some criticism that in many ways, this is a strategy of avoiding war.
is this the best strategy moving forward to fight isis? >> well, look, erica. there's two things. one is, clearly, we don't want a major land campaign in the middle east again. so the president's right on that. in addition, we've got to understand, this is network warfare. if you want to defend america, you do it through the customs and border protection and the fbi, and good intelligence. so we've got a problem with snowden since good intelligence. but i think, also, 450 killed and wounded in that beautiful city of paris, we need to take more effective, direct action against isis, and we can do that with special operations forces and better employment of air power with less constrained rule of engagement. >> i want to focus on the air power, because we have seen these air strikes, of course, over the last couple of nights. what is the long-term strategy there? how many air strikes are we talking about? and how long does this have to
last to truly be effective? >> well, look, air power, where isis has ensconced their key assets in civilian population, very difficult to employ. you've got to have people on the ground. so, you know, i thought it was complete nonsense, having the white house political spokesman talk about, well, we're only going to have 50 special ops people and no more in syria. we need to have a mission-type order, the special operations command take legal action against these people in both syria, iraq, and lebanon, wherever you find them, and use air power to back you up. i think that's the next step. and the president's got to move off this notion that his current strategy is working. it isn't. arming the moderate operation in syria has been a complete failure. the air campaign, many of these flights, more than half, come back to the carrier or to an air force base, not having expended their ordinance.
a lot of them have been thrashing around, it hasn't worked, and isis is now a bigger threat. >> so in terms of a coordinated effort, special ops forces, would that be more effective if it was arab-led? do we need better coordination in the region? >> well, of course, it would. in theory, the front line states, the sunni muslim states of saudi arabia and egypt and turkey and jordan ought to be playing the lead. but they're not going to. so the only reason we're involved in this discussion is paris just had 450 killed and wounded. europe has a tremendous threat. the u.s., thank god, much less so, because of the customs and border protection of the fbi. plus, we don't have giant alienated muslim populations. the muslims in this country think they get a fair shake, mostly, and they do. so, you know, again -- >> does that mean you're not concerned about an attack at home? >> well, i think we should be concerned. i think there will be attacks at
home. and you know, we had two washington, d.c. snipers a decade ago and they terrorized the sbeer region for several weeks. so it doesn't take much to cause a real problem. but, back to the subject at hand. i don't think the sunni muslim nations are going to take this on alone. the european union has been remiss entirely. you know, there's no border control right now. a million refugees in germany in the space of one year. this is complete nonsense. the french don't have control internally or over their own borders. things aren't going to change for the better in france in the coming year. >> so, then, what's going to change to help with that situation? because the picture you paint is frankly rather bleak. >> well, you know, i think european union will have to think through this and create infrastructure. you know, the french president announced he's going to close all the borders of france. he can't do that. there isn't an infrastructure, there isn't an organization to
do that. and the european union didn't have eu perimeter security forces in place or anywhere near up to this job. you know, hundreds of thousands of people crossing into the greek islands and then automatically moving on and free movement inside europe. so they have to think through this. we're in a much better posture. and by the way, i might add, we can accept tens of thousands of foreigners and integrate them in our society fairly easily. much more difficult in these very parochial cultures in europe. >> general barry mccaffrey, thanks for your time tonight, sir. >> good to be you, erica. coming up, rising from tragedy. 129 killed, more than 350 injured. how the people of paris tonight are finding the strength and courage to move forward. plus, in the wake of the paris attacks, isis threatens to strike washington, d.c., as we just mentioned. how serious is the threat of an
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we are back now as we continue with our coverage of the terrorist attacks in paris. at this hour, german police trying to figure out what happened at a stadium in hannover that was the target of a quote concrete threat. officials canceled the soccer match between germany and the netherlands and evacuated the statement. meantime, back here in paris, chris hayes is with us, the host of "all in" on msnbc. he's been here in paris and getting out talking to people. as we're starting to look at the larger long-term effects of the city and on the country. >> one of the things that's been striking is the difference in the reaction both here in france, among the french citizenry, the french political class, to what happened in january with "charlie hebdo" and that kosher supermarket and what's happening here. i talked a little bit to christopher dickey about the difference in those attacks and he said something similar to what john kerry said today that's got him in a little bit of hot water. john kerry distinguishing between the two attacks.
he talked about the way in which the french were able to think of those attacks as monstrous and horrific and unjustified, but targeted in a way that they thought, well, they went after that target. >> it was more political. >> it was more political. it was more okay, well, i -- yes, "charlie hebdo" has this long-standing vendetta, and there's been anti-semitic attacks before. this felt different to him and it's led to a darker mood. take a listen. >> there is a darker mood now. because it's not only that people feel afraid, they're looking over their shoulders because this is such a random kind of act. and so extensive. but it's also, it's coming on top of the refugee crisis. it's coming on top of the questions about immigration that bloom so large over the summer. >> this is something that we're seeing now play out in the u.s., we're saying play out here, which is that despite the fact that at this point, there is no real hard concrete investigatory link between refugees and what happened, in fact, the eu officially even saying, as far
as we know, they're all eu nationals. there's that one passport, could be fake, don't know, but the political backdrop is the fact there have been tens of thousands of folks coming from syria. this feeling that the problem is here, it's on europe's doorstep and it's very easy, i think, for people to start conflating those two things in the public imagination. and that's leading to some of the reaction we're see welcome the national state of emergency, hollande calling for war, trying to put together a war, talks about a constitutional amendment. a lot of things playing out in the wake of 9/11 in the u.s., that didn't happen with "charlie hebdo," beginning to operate on the french psyche. >> there was a little bit of concern after "charlie hebdo," just in terms of what the reaction would be in terms of the muslim population here, the arab population in france. yet, it is different this time around, as we're even talking about that element of it. >> the leader of the hard right party who's seen itself gaining in poll, there are regional elections in december, at first she was somewhat standoffish,
surprisingly not red in her rhetoric. that all flipped around in 24 hours, calling for the government to resign. hollande and sarkozy, the two people who will be in the election next year, understand that. particularly what we saw in germany today, it's a constant that is already dealing with the sizic, the largest crisis since world war ii. >> nice to have you here, great to have that perspective. chris, thanks. msnbc's richard lui also here in paris. he spent the day today in a large muslim area near paris, which is also the site of where the football match, the soccer match between france and germany was happening on friday night and richard is back with us now. richard, nice to see you. >> erica, good to see you. very interesting. >> so you spent time in that community, just sort of talking with people, getting to know them, sort of picking their brain about how they're reacting. >> right. in that community is where stade
de france happened, where that attack with the three individuals, he is a three-year resident of that area. he is a five-year resident of france. this individual i spent two or three hours with. i really wanted to get a sense of what he was like. so he has a wife and three children. he is one on the way. and his view on this entire thing, first off, because of that which is out there, that this community operates separately of everybody else, that they're not integrating, first off. second of all, that these communities are not safe. so when we were up there for three hours, he took me to where he first lived and that specific area was, well, it's sort of like lower income, very simple households. that's where he spent most of his time. he took me to where he said drug dealing happened. i didn't get the sense it was terribly unsafe. and then he took me to where there was purely lower income housing for immigrants. yes, most faces did look like
they were north african or middle eastern, but in general, i would say, because the community is about 5 million, according to pew in 2010, and we look at that upper 10%, you got a feeling, i think, after you left that this is a very complex community. and as you and i both know and we spend time in these communities, two or three hours, although we can dive deep and go wide and talk to different people, it's still just that surface. but i got to see the complexity. >> does he feel that he's able to be a part. that he's starting to find his way in france? >> yes. this is one of those individuals, you know when you meet, you're like, they're the ones that are going to make a difference. so he is 1 of 12 who decided to come to france. he is one who wants to become a french citizen and he cannot wait. he is one that moved outside of that community, because he wanted to become closer to the community of paris itself. so, for him, he feels, i have an opportunity, i'm going to do something about that. he was absolutely upset, erica, so upset, the way he described it to me in french, i was so
upset, i couldn't even tremble when this happened. the fact that there is a group using this, that i am so proud of, my muslim faith, for that, and so he worries about his wife. he worries about his soon-to-be four children. and when we finished, he said, well, i have enough time, i'm going to go pray and then go home and spend time with my family. >> so many layers. and that's something so many people at home can relate to. because obviously the situation in the u.s., we like to call it a melting pot, can be tough there, as we heard from chris slightly different. richard, thank you. nice to see you tonight. still ahead tonight, a stunning story of survival. how a pregnant woman managed to escape the paris attackers. plus, threatening the homeland. isis promising now to strike america at its heart. what is the likelihood the terror group could launch an attack in the u.s.? stay with us. good.
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we are learning more today about how some people caught in the terror attacks on friday night were able to survive, including a pregnant woman seen dangling two stories above the street in a picture and ultimately in video. nearly three minutes of heart-wrenching video which really painted a terrifying scene of what was happening outside the bataclan concert hall as everything was happening inside. it's also brought us an inspiring story of survival and ultimately reunion. i do want to warn you, some of the video may be a little tough
to watch. >> reporter: chaos outside the street in the bataclan theater. people pouring from a side door of the concert hall, desperate to get away from the horror. the sound of gunfire, heard clearly. people seen dragging bodies. a man who appears to have been struck in the leg, hobbling away from the scene. and hanging from a second-story window, a woman. sir, sir, she says. i'm pregnant. as the woman dangles, slowly inching over to a man above her, the video pans to the scene below. bodies near the door. the sound of more gunshots. >> and as people rush from the scene, the sound of their footsteps echoing through the street. again, the woman pleads for help after nearly two minutes, hands reach out to pull her to safety. >> translator: i held out my
hand, says 34-year-old sebastian, who shared his story with french radio. she said she was going to let go. one can't watch someone die before their very eyes. there had already been too much of that. after saving her, the two were separated. over the weekend, this message began making the rounds on twitter. the sender asking for re-tweets to help the woman in the video find the man who saved her life, just to say thank you. it didn't take long. a tweet confirming she had found the man and noting, quote, the rest of the story is theirs. >> so, both sebastian and the woman really did not want to do anymore press. they've asked everyone to leave them alone, which we've respected. but we were down at the bataclan this morning, the "today" show, and actually spent much of the day there. and what was really remarkable is how much the memorial there has grown in such a short period of time. because, remember, this is an area that was cordoned off until not very long ago. so for many people today, as we
watch that memorial grow and grow, there was a steady stream of people. the last time we were down there was probably around 7:00 tonight, local time, and the sidewalk was so full with flowers and candles and signs is. people had left bottles of beer. there was an enormous picture, probably an 11 x 14 picture taped up of someone who likely was one of the victims in this attack. it was the most emotional memorial i have seen since i have been here and i've been here saturday morning, so we've watched a lot of these memorials grow. the emotion in the people's faces here at the bataclan was something that, frankly, there aren't a lot of words to describe. tears in their eyes, their body language, they were so visibly upset. we were talking to some people this morning about the picture of that woman and about her story. and as much as they were sort of heartened by that story, even people who spoke english really well said to me, when we started to talk about, they said, i just can't do it in english anymore. it's too emotional for me. this is all becoming too
emotional for me, being here. i have to do it in french or i can't even really speak about it right now and it's understandable. absolutely understandable. so seeing a lot of raw emotion down there tonight. we'll have much more from paris as our coverage continues. we'll be right back. ♪ do you really think that's a good idea? if everyone jumped off a cliff, would you do it too? you'll lose interest. it's just a phase. it hurts me more than it hurts you. where are your manners - were you raised by wolves? you're going to give me a heart attack. when you have kids, you'll understand. this is the life of a rebel. sorry, mom.
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canadians. one month later, a so-called lone wolf, who reportedly tried to join isis, ran over and killed a canadian soldier. days later, another lone wolf went on a shooting rampage at parliament hill, fatally shooting another soldier. one week after the january "charlie hebdo" attacks that left 11 dead here in paris, isis called on its supporters in france and europe to carry out more attacks on law enforcement and infidels. seven months later, a would-be jihadist with ties to isis tried to open fire on a french train before being stopped by three heroic americans. that plot was reportedly masterminded by the same man who planned the paris attacks last week. today, secretary of state john kerry acknowledged just how difficult it is to stop these attackers. >> any individual who wants to strap a suicide vest around them can walk into any public event in most places in the world and blow him or herself up and destroy people with them. so that's the nature of terror.
that's why terrorists are called terrorists. they spread terror. they're trying to sew fear and intimidate people. and yes, we have known this. we're on the lookout every single day for these plots. >> joining me now, jack rice, a former cia officer, who was embedded in iraq and afghanistan. and on the phone, former ambassador to iraq, and former deputy secretary of state, ambassador chris hill. gentleman, nice to have both of you with us tonight, ambassador, give us a sense. when we see that isis had said, we're going to strike washington, d.c., and we see the list of these attacks just in the past year or so, what is the likelihood that isis or its sympathizers may actually carry out that threat in the near future? >> well, first of all, i mean, part of the goal is to kind of scare people and understandably, that happens, after you had a spectacular attack, as we saw in paris. but in addition, i think they're calling on sort of lone wolves,
who really have no sort of day-to-day contact, except by maybe looking at internet sites the to do what they can. i would take issue a little with secretary kerry by saying, it's hard to stop a lone wolf who has a suicide vest. someone has to make that vest. someone has to organize that. it's not so easy. but what is easy, a lone gunman with a knife creating havoc in some local area. i think the good news is, we have a pretty robust security services in our country. they're kind of on to this, know who are the sort of cranks in the area and work very vigilantly. but no question there's a risk of this. >> the number of americans the trying to join isis has reportedly more than doubled in just over a year from 100 a year ago to more than 250 at a recent count. what is the chance more could be
heading that way. is there a better way to stay on top of that? >> well, it's very difficult. i'm here in minneapolis right now and what we have seen is a lot of young men who have been recruited, who have ended up working with al shabaab. some have gone to isis as well. and it's very difficult to deal with those who are disaffected, disenfranchised and feel alone and lost. so what you find are those that can really be targeted and isis has been very, very successful at reaching and grabbing those people. the ambassador is right. the bottom line is, this can be difficult to stop somebody who wants to kill themselves, but if you get somebody who simply wants to get their hands on an ak-47 and go into a football stadium, it can be very, very difficult to stop somebody in they're willing to die in the process pop. that's the fear. >> jack, i want to bring it back to one point you made in terms of recruiting and the attraction of this. one of the things we've talked so much about, especially in the
wake of these attacks is the technology angle. the use of social media by isis. and when you're going after young people, of course, that is a great way to bring them in. what is the best strategy, do you feel, moving forward to deal with that part of the threat, the social media aspect or technology? >> well, i see your point. the real problem is this ability through social media to reach into somebody's basement and really get ahold of somebody who is 19, 20, 21 years old. and that's sometimes the demographic we're talking about. i think one of the most important things that we need to do is realize who those that are being targeted. those young men, toumly speaking, but it can be women, too, who are actually, potentially, those who could actually become the terrorists themselves. and what you need to do is pull them into the community. you need to reach in and convince them that they are not alone. that they are not isolated. that they are part of american society and that they are valued. it may sound squishy, may sound warm and fuzzy, but it is, actually, true. >> and ambassador, we're a little tight on time, i have to
warn you, but there's all this talk about containment and whether or not it worked, whether or not isis is contained. but ambassador, when you look at containing isis, what happens if they are contained, but just sort of ferris in that land? is that an equal threat? >> well, we learned the lesson from 9/11 that we don't want these kinds of people holdingtory, because when they hold territory, they can do recruiting and training. so i don't think you can have a containment strategy that allows them to hold territory. i think we have to keep them on the run. and i think most important, we have to get some other arab countries, not just poor little jordan, but other arab countries really, directly on this fight. the saudis have kind of left it alone and gone to gyemen. we need a lot of arab countries to really be on the front line of this. >> ambassador jack hill, appreciate you being with us tonight and sharing your insight. thank you. >> thank. >> thanks for all of you watching "msnbc live." i'm erica hill in paris. i'll see you back here tomorrow.
"hardball" starts right now. the russians, the french, and us. can three great countries beat one caliphate? let's play "hardball." >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington, wondering if all the words from the west will bring on a serious assault from isis. russia knows what it's facing, the evidence is in today. isis blew up its plane, killing all aboard, a deliberate act of war. frns knows what it's facing, over 100 killed, in a sheer act of wanton murder. americans know what's up. after all, it was our crazed invasion of iraq that created this demonic force known as isis. so the question is whether all the power of moscow, powers in washington will find a way to smash this caliphate the size of indiana. let's begin with the latest from paris and msnbc's