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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  November 17, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PST

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thank you very much for joining us for the evening. anthony roman, thank you, jim safely on the ground. one in nova scotia, one in salt lake city. stay with us for continuing coverage tonight. good evening from paris. i'm chris hayes on a day when the investigation into the brutal attacks here has focused on the response to those attacks keeps widening. a new threat shut down a huge sporting event in germany, a soccer stadium in hannover, germany, was evacuated after what was described by german police as a credible threat 90 minutes before kickoff, a friendly match between germany and the netherlands expected to begin approximately at 8:45 p.m.
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angela merkel had been expected to attend the game. the match between france and england at wembley stadium in england went forward amid some concerns but british fans joined their french counterparts in singing the french national anthem as a display of solidarity. the eighth suspect salah abdeslam is still at large. today men reportedly shared in his getaway car, one of them a suspected driver, a lawyer acknowledges a car ride curse. the lawyer for the other suspect says his client went along for the ride. there is now an active manhunt for an as yet unnamed additional accomplice in the paris attacks. 120 raids took place overnight across france as french authorities mobilized 115,000 security personnel since the friday's attack. also today, a big development, russia said it was indeed a bomb that took down its airliner two
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weeks ago in egypt. russia intensified air strikes of isis targets in syria. the russians said they were coordinating their campaign with france as it launched air strikes of its own. secretary of state john kerry met with french president francois hollande on a day when holland called on the u.s. and russia to overcome divisions in an effort to defeat isis. france invoked a never before used article 42 obliging members of the 28-nation bloc to give aid and assistance by all the means in their power to a member country that is the victim of harmed aggression on its territory. all of it further evidence that france is fully entering war footing as the citizens suffer with their own mourning. today i visited a restaurant that was one of the scenes in the crime. later in this hour, i'll speak with a governor in the u.s.
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about the refugee hysteria sweeping the u.s. as domestic politics turns ugly. we begin with two reports tonight. to the cairo for the russian announcement that it was isis that is brought down their airliner and the news from germany today. claudio, good evening. >> reporter: good evening, chris. the manhunt for the most wanted man. europe continues, of course, salah abdeslam was born and raised here in belgium. belgium and brussels which was more known as the home base of international organizations like the european union and nato. now it is becoming clear it is the hot bed of islamic extremism here in europe where there are the most the highest number of foreign fighters per capita in any county in the europe left here to go and fight with sisal in syria and as many as 130 are known to have come back. now one of those radicalized is salah abdeslam.
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his family still lives here. his brother mohamed who was arrested on friday along with another six people was arrested on friday, he was then released, he spoke on camera the last couple of days. today he told a channel in france, a tv channel in france he made an appeal. he said salah, his brother, just turn yourself in. that, of course, hasn't happened yet. he's still being sought in particular here in brussels even though he's known toe have been picked up in france by these two accomplices who were arrested today. he must have come back here in belgium somewhere. of course, the police don't know whether he's still here or elsewhere in europe. of course, this is the place they were thought to find any trace of his whereabouts. in the meantime you mentioned the developing news in germany. the german interior minister has spoken out about an hour and a
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half ago and he said the threat was real. there was credible evidence but also didn't want to give out any account or any specifications on what this they're the was about not to upset the population. that have particular answer was worrisome as any other answer itself, chris. >> all right. claudio, thank you. joining me from cairo, egypt, foreign correspondent ayman mohyeldin. the russians announced today they had had found it was some sort of explosive device that brought down the passenger plane. egyptian authorities still saying that's not the case. there seems to be dispute between the twoflations about what exactly happened. >> reporter: yeah, i mean, if you look at it over the course of the last several weeks, the egyptian government has been reluctant to buy into the theories from western governments that it was definitely a terrorist attack, especially in the growing evidence that has been presented
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by both u.s. and british intelligence that they detected some chatter among isis militants in the sinai peninsula before and after the attack celebrating it. today you had perhaps the closest thing to an actual forensic confirmation that this was a bomb. you had the head of russian intelligence saying that after they were able to analyze the soil sample and samples of the fuselage, they were able to determine that in fact, there was explosive residue in the wreckage of that plane. they went as far as saying it was about 2.2 pounds worth of tnt that brought the plane down. from the eyes of the russians and western intelligence services, this is now definitely a terrorist attack. not yet sure who is behind it although isis did claim responsibility for it. they still want to verify that claim of responsibility, but you're right. when you talk to egyptian government officials, today the statement that came out of the government was very clear. they said they're going to take russia's final conclusion into
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their own calculation when they make their investigation complete. they didn't say that they're acknowledging that russia's conclusion was correct. in fact, they went a step further saying that as of yet, the civil aviation minister here said as of yet, there is still no evidence of criminal activity behind bringing this plane down. despite that, egypt's minister of interior is stepping up security at the airport. and they have begun top screen employees and baggage even tighter than what we've seen in the past. they did say that they're considering all possibilities that it could be a terrorist attack. but as of yet, no clear indication from the egyptian government that this was a terrorist attack. we also know that ha egyptian security officials have been questioning people at the airport, questioning personnel at the airport in another indication that perhaps that, too, is where their investigation is going to lead them albeit a little bit later than many of the other countries that have already concluded this
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was a bomb, chris. >> ayman mohyeldin, thank you very much. joining me reporter and anchore cyril vanier who was on air when the paris attacks occurred. thank you for joining me tonight. i know you lost a colleague. i want to express condolences. >> thank you. >> everybody is devastated by what happened here. francois hollande just talked about a grand international coalition to defeat isis. what have are the domestic politics at play for him as he essentially puts the nation on quite explicitly war footing? >> first of all, look at the context going into this for hollande domestically. he's a very weak president, very, very low approval ratings. you have to ask yourself if you just put aside the feeling and the trauma for one second, how is this going to affect his presidency? is there going to be a before and after november 13th? in all likelihood, there is. and francoise hollande knows that and knows it's critical to his presidency how he handles this moment. the way he's handling it, he has to get tougher on security. this is what people want. it's a natural response. as a frenchman, i'm angry and just coming here, i looked at the poll numbers, that's the
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national mood. people are angry and want more security and things to be done. >> hollande talking about a variety of measures including a constitutional amendment about essentially revoking the citizenship of dual nationals found guilty of certain crimes. it feels to me like somewhat like a similar to 9/11 moment when america passed a whole variety of measures, starting spending much more on defense, built an entire structure of security. is that what france is headed towards? >> i think there are some similarities because certainly in terms of reckoning and understanding the level of threat we're facing, yes, this is different from what we've seen before. and i'm saying this from a perspective of a country that's been under attack this year already a number of times. but this is different. it's a different scale and also people understand it could be anyone anywhere. you know, it's not specific targets. it's everybody. it's our lifestyle, our country. i think people understand that at this moment. however, one thing that france cannot do is afford to just start wars with other countries
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and the way that the u.s. dollars post 9/11. we can't just invade syria assuming we wanted to, not saying we do. france can't do that. >> that's not on the table or part of the political discussion when people argue about the range of options. it's not a discussed option. >> given the size of our military, no. >> okay. cyril vanier, thank you very much. coming up, more from paris plus an analysis of the rhetoric versus the reality of combating isis and later on, the american presidential politics of a litmus test for syrians. >> which is why i said that look, at a minimum, we ought to be bringing in people that he have like orphans and people that clearly aren't going to be terrorists or christians. there are no christian terrorists in the middle east. they're persecuted. religious minorities. >> what do christian families look like? >> you're a christian.
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you can prove you're a christian. >> how? >> i think you can prove it. if you can't prove it, then you know, you err on the side of caution. , taking small, manageable steps can be an effective... and enjoyable approach... compared to the alternatives. push! i am pushing! sfx: pants ripping how you doing eddie? almost there. small steps. at axa, we'll help you take the next steps, with more confidence. for advice, retirement and insurance, talk to axa today.
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take the free home energy checkup. honey, we need a new refrigerator. visit pge.com/checkup and get started today. . air france flight 65 from los angeles and airbus 380 with 473 people on board landed safely installed the city a short time ago. all passengers were there. no injuries or arrests. flight 555 from d.c. to paris, a boeing triple 7, that one was in halifax and nova scotia. that is safely on the ground. all of the passengers were taken off safely. that plane is safely on the ground.
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the fbi took over the investigation on the ground. canine units searching the plane thoroughly. two air france flights making emergency landings after bomb threats were phoned in to the operations center. both planes safely on the ground. all passengers are safe without incident. they will be able to resume their trip shortly trade we will their trip shortly trade we will have more on this raking story. it's how you stay connected to each other and to your customers. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions, including an industry leading broadband network, and cloud and hosting services - all with dedicated, responsive support. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, you're free to focus on growing your business. centurylink. your link to what's next.
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>> nobody has been able to sit down with him and have him get one iota of intelligent information about the middle east." meanwhile, donald trump has a new line about isis he's been working on stump speeches. it's getting pretty rapturous applause. >> i'm going to bomb the [ bleep ] out of them. it's true. i don't care. i don't care. they've got to be stopped. >> according to a new poll, 20% of americans believe trump is the best candidate to suited to deal with terrorism. tied with hillary clinton and far more than any other republican. trump's rhetoric on foreign policy as with everything else tends to be extremely simplistic as seen in an instagram video he posted today wrongly suggesting the u.s. does not screen syrian refugees. >> refugees are pouring into our great country from syria. we don't even know who they are. they could be isis. they could be anybody. what's our president doing? is he insane?
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>> trump is one of a number of republican candidates hon have been attacking the president over his strategy for fighting isis. which the president maintained yesterday is ultimately going to work. gop candidates rhetoric belies the fact that in most cases their policies don't end up differing a lot from what the president has been doing. the la times notes the major candidates in both parties called for air strikes against islamic state positions in syria and eric providing arms and building coalitions with u.s. allieses and regional partners all of which the administration has been doing for more than a year. most of the gop candidates are opting to paper over that fact and attempt to adopt the most bellicose rhetoric they can. charlie pierce, writer at large for esquire joining me now. some folks on the right thinking this paris attack is going to show people you've got to be serious and who is going to take the 3:00 a.m. call. obviously that's not going to
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help he trump and carson. it looks to be just the reverse. this is precisely helping trump because in a competition for the most bellicose rhetoric, no one is going to beat donald trump. >> that's absolutely right, chris, because the competition for the most bellicose rhetoric is the only competition. as pointed out, this is a terrific issue if you're running for president. it's a terrible issue if you are president. because if you're running for president and you know there weren't good solutions and you know the current president is pretty much doing the only things that can be done, you can yell about doing anything. full in the knowledge that you're not going to do it once you get the opportunity. so beak, what you have is a bunch of republicans turning up the rhetorical heat and yet, essentially, advocating the same policies the president's following except with more leadership. >> you know, charlie, you covered the aftermath of 9/11
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and i thought wrote an interesting piece about some of the fear expressed about the possibility of infiltration of isis by refugees. here in paris you can feel the moment in politics. you can really feel it, this sense they might strike anywhere and we have to take measures. we saw that play out in the u.s. are you surprised by the tenor of american politics in the last 48 hours? >> absolutely not. i spent all weekend lighting candles and saying that it was the democratic debate on saturday night, not a republican debate because i can't imagine what that would have been like. yeah, what i wrote today beak was a lot of this is yes, a lot of this is gunned up for political advantage. charlie baker in massachusetts is not a bigot. now you can argue that maggie is going to take this position because she's going to run against kelly ayotte and wants to take this position.
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if you are a politician that believes the federal government can do its job, then you will probably go along with the refugees. but if you've made your entire career out of ronald reagan's admonition that the problem, the government is the problem, not the solution, then you very easily fall into really, really bad habits of rhetoric and really, really, real bad policy. >> there's also the fact that we -- there's a sense in which 15 years into the war on terror after trillions of dollars, thousands of american servicemen and women have died, i say thousands of americans died in 9/11 and other terror attacks, this question of have we won yet, are we there yet. that strikes me as some of the kind of creed you're getting from candidates on the trail. >> i don't think anybody really
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knows what to do with this issue. the original rhetoric in the wake of 9/11 ran out of gas pretty quickly. it ran out of gas because of the attack invasion of iraq. if you look at the polls now, there is absolutely no appetite in the american public for sending ground troops over there, none. no matter what people say and no matter how much lindsey graham will personally pilot the troop ship from new york to cyprus or whatever, there is no appetite for another ground war in west asia. the polls say people want to do something very harsh but don't want to use ground troops and don't think increased air strikes will work. they just want to do something. >> that's where you get bombing the crap out of them. charlie pierce, thank you very much. joining me now is lawrence korb, former assistant secretary of defense in the reagan administration. i want to focus on actual substantive policy differences laid out.
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some of the thing america has been doing including air strikes, arms support, special operators now in iraq working on the ground. that's actually being done. the no-fly zone is something many republican candidates have advocated and hillary clinton seems to essentially endorse. would that help? is that a good idea? >> no, the no-fly zone wouldn't help at all because sisal which is the main enemy doesn't have airplanes. it would be very expensive. you would need thousands of troops enabled to do it and it would get you involved in the syrian civil war which is really not a threat to us. >> you mentioned the syrian civil war. it strikes me so much of the conversation from people in the american domestic political context is about destroying isis, people in europe. when i correspond with people in the region, when i talk to people in the region, they talk about the civil war and assad.
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they say 70% of these refugees are fleeing assad. there is no solution to isis without some solution to the syrian civil war. do you think that's true? >> there's no long-term solution unless you take care of the civil war. we're going to have to come to some sort of political solution that sets up a transition government or sets a date for an election and lets assad go out gracefully so that we can all concentrate on fighting isil. the russians went in there and pretended they were fighting isil. they were there to protect assad. after the airliner went down, they have gone after isil big-time with the bombing in raqqa. you need to do that. as a result of what's happened to the russians, what's happened in paris and lebanon, people will be willing to make the come proposal mizes necessary to get a solution to the civil war so we can focus on isil. >> can you imagine a sort of united front against isil that didn't involve some ground troop
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contingent that was successful in essentially destroying the group? >> i think the ground troops, the president is right, the ground troops have to be the local ground troops. we can have a limited number, maybe as we have 3500 in iraq and we just put 50 into syria. basically to advise and assist. if you look at the operation last week where the peshmerga cut off route 47 which is the main route from the raqqa to mosul which is the capital for the isil in iraq and they took back sinjar and they had americans advising and assisting, that's the way to go. you put american or western ground troops there, it will feed into the isil narrative that this is a struggle between
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the west and islam. >> all right, lawrence korb, thank you very much. >> thank you. still ahead, why secretary of state john kerry says he was shocked but not surprised about the attacks in paris. the revealing had interview with lester holt. lester will be with me, next. they come into this iworld ugly and messy. ideas are frightening because they threaten what is known.
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d.c. diverted to halifax, nova scotia. that plane had 298 people on board. at the same time, air france flight 65 from los angeles to france was an airbus 838. that was diverted to salt lake city after receiving a threat. the plane was carrying 497 passengers or the fbi, airport police are on the scene. they are investigating. i am joined by andrea tyree and jim cavanaugh. jim, save say to that officials are acting and reacting out of an abundance of caution? >> it's right. the situation in paris and russian airliners, you need a real, exhaustive search. i think this is going to be even
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more thorough than normal. the same thing with the bomb sniffing bob dog. they will make sure there are no explosives. >> both of these flights expected to resume shortly. no reports of injuries on either flight. no arrests have been made. jim, i don't even know if we keep track of certain innings. how often do things like this happen? how often do they call in a bomb threat like this? >> it's not uncommon to get bomb threats called in and to have planes have to be diverted and searched. normally it's not tied to the events in the world. the russian government this morning announced that it was
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brought down by a bomb. it was a very special time, and everybody has to be really alert. it will change aviation because these calls could come in so many that they can handle it. they have to make sure he sure that there are additional searches. we may have to get to that someday so that they can say that they have searched everything and we are assured, as if we would have landed the plane and done it. that is the only way to do it. if they come on the heels of worldwide terrorist. >> a passenger on that flight that was headed from lax to paris told us during our last outing that two hours into the flight he was having a meal and the flight attendant came
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through and started grabbing everyone's plates and said they were making an emergency land g landing. we should also note that here we are on the east coast. it has been a z "newsday" in addition to all of the developments overseas in paris. a football game that was canceled, and we should note that a few hours ago there was a passenger that had to be restrained on a dish airways flight as well. that was at logan international in boston it officials ain't that a woman who had too much to drink was trying to get into the cockpit or open the emergency exit. jim cavanaugh, thanks as always for your time and your insight. two air france flights had to make emergency landings after threats tonight to both of those planes. they are safely on the ground and scheduled to resume their trip. stay with msnbc for continuing coverage tonight.
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the resistance to president obama's plan to accept at least 10,000 syrian refugees over the next year is growing in the wake of the terror attacks here in paris four days ago. it bears repeating investigators have yet to the establish a definitive connection to the refugees. governors in 31 states are now opposing, refusing or suspending the resettlement of syrian refugees into their state either permanently or until after security review. amid reports that hard lines are close to accepting refugees could force a government shutdown in the states, house speaker paul ryan today said the program should be suspended and planned a house vote on restricting refugees. >> this is a moment where it's better to be safe than to be sorry. the prudent, the responsible thing is to take a pause in this particular aspect of this refugee program in order to verify that tirts are not trying
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to infiltrate the refugee population. >> gop presidential candidates have been flowing the issue for perceived political gain including bobby jindalal who today suspended his struggling presidential campaign and who on saturday sent the president a letter calling the refugee plan pir responsible and disconcerting. another candidate ohio governor john kasich repudiated his previous support for accepting refugees in the wake of the paris attacks. >> it's a matter of numbers. and look, i mean, at the end, the people of this country don't want any more right now. they want to make sure they're going to be safe. >> hillary clinton who has called for taking in 65,000 syrian refugees significantly more than the obama administration, today had some harsh words for jeb bush and ted cruz who suggested america should make special allowances for only christian refugees instead of muslims. "we've seen a lot of hateful rhetoric from the gop but the idea we turn away refugees because of religion is a new low." joining me now is one of the
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minority of governors who says the refugees are still welcome in his state, democratic governor dannel malloy of connecticut. i understand you're on a conference call between the white house on then issue. what was that call like? >> it was interesting. first of all, the administration did a very good job of explaining the process and procedures how people are allowed to come into our country as a refugee. let me give you a couple of sticks. since 2011, 23,043 people have been recommended by the u.n. to be considered for coming to the united states from syria. 7,000 of those after review were found to be acceptable for a next stage of review. of that 7,000, 2,000 have made it to the united states thus far. and many of those folks are in states like florida and texas and elsewhere and connecticut for that matter. we're talking about a tiny fraction of people.
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let me give you a statistic. since 2004 through 2014, according to the government accountability report, we sold 2,000042 guns to people who were on the terrorism watch list. why? because the nra has prevented us from adding people on the watch list as ineligible to buy guns in the united states. it doesn't make a lot of sense. another statistic, 30,000 people in america are going to -- dais a result of gun violence. and yet, those same governors who came out today and said we shouldn't take refugees are the same governors who oppose common sense gun control laws in america. why don't we have universal background checks? if a syrian can't get on a plane to fly someplace in the world or to the united states without a background check, why do we sell guns to people without a background check if we're so fearful what's going to happen? >> governor, it comes down it seems to me about confidence in the vetting procedure in place. it seems that there's either a combination of good faith distrust of that system or bad faith demagoguery, frankly, in this wave of governors.
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what do you think is at play? >> or people who just haven't bothered to understand what the process is. we have the toughest process in the world with allowing refugees into our country. that's the reality. that's the standard we hold ourselves to. let's be clear. no one's taking a raft from turkey to get to the united states. we control this situation to a higher degree than any other european country can at the current moment. we have different procedures even at our airports and with respect to passports and with respect to visas than are present in europe. we are well protected. 23,000 to 7,000 reviewed to only 2,000 since 2011 entered into this country. a bunch of those folks had been victims of rape, had been victims of political oppression, had been our allies in the goings on in that area. that's why we brought them to this country so that they wouldn't be killed because they were our ally boston are we
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going to turn our back on these folks? >> do you think you can sell the voter of your state on this, or is this going to create real political problems for you? >> no, listen, i think this is the american people are generous people. and they understand what's written on the statute of liberty give us your poor, your tired, your weary. they understand that. we'll return to this common sense situation. but a bunch of governors got ahead of themselves, didn't bother to do their homework or understand what's going on even in their own states and how hard this process is. and they jumped on a political bandwagon. quite frankly, they're going to win that argument for a while. people will think, that's great. let's be tough on people. here's a question. if most of these folks who attacked in paris were french and belgians, why wouldn't you allow french and bellian people in our country or any other country that has a problem?
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the reality is what they're trying to do is say, this is a very small segment of people. we can pick on them relatively easily and we can make our political point. and by the way, that's what terrorists want. they want us to stop being americans. they want us to stop believing in liberty and in freedom. they want to be able to be go back to where they're from and say see, americans didn't really mean they were an open society. they really don't mean they're going to treat our people the same way as they treat everybody else. they're going to single us out one way or the other. >> govern dannel malloy of connecticut, thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you. france and russia target the syrian city of raqqa with air strikes. can those efforts actually weaken the islamic state? that's next.
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. two flights an emergency landing due to bomb threats have been cleared to resume their flights. air france flight see 5 from los angeles to paris landed safely in salt lake city a short time ago. all the passengers deplaned. there were no reports of injuries or arrests. air france flight 55 from dulles to paris landed in halifax, nova scotia. two air france flights cleared to resume flights after making emergency landings due to two separate bomb threats. stay with msnbc for more up tate. can a business have a mind?
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a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? my psoriatic arthritis i'm caused joint pain.o golfer. just like my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and i was worried about joint damage. my doctor said joint pain from ra can be a sign of existing joint damage that could only get worse. he prescribed enbrel to help relieve pain and help stop further damage. enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections.
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serious, sometimes fatal, events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. tell your doctor if you've been someplace where fungal infections are common, or if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. joint pain and damage... can go side by side. ask how enbrel can help relieve joint pain and help stop joint damage. enbrel, the number one rheumatologist-prescribed biologic. russia says it now knows unequivocally that a two-pound homemade bomb brought down its plane late last month over sinai. president putin promised a harsh
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response. >> translator: wherever they are hiding we will find them in any spot on the planet and pub punish them he said. russia started that by about bombing its capital in syria, the city of raqqa. >> the city of raqqa is now the target of the russian air strikes. entrance has carried another round of its own on the city. this latest wave of attacks comes as france makes an unprecedented demand for european allies to support the country's military action against isis. an. as for the u.s. it has been bombing raqqa for months. american-led air strikes are being credited with helping push them out of sinjar. joining me now by phone frommer be, iraq, sophia jones who has been reporting on the ysatis people in sinjar. you were in sinjar right after isis had been pushed out. what was the scene like there. >>ing. > i was there just two days after kurdish forces pushed out isis and when i arrived with kurdish -- there was nothing left of the city. most of the homes had been looted or burn. they were plumes of smoke high in the air. isis has had labeled homes based
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on the religious sect of the people in the house and would write ysatis or shia or sunni. people were uncovering booby-traps and tunnels dug through people's living rooms. the city was totally destroyed and there are no civilians there right now. >> was there a sense of the people you talked to of a victory here. >> obviously it's horrifying what has happened and the city's been brutalized. did they feel like this had struck a blow, that this meant that they were on the march and isis was in retreat? >> reporter: if you talk to kurdish forces called the peshmerga they will say it's a huge victory and for the forces and so they could not have done it without the u.s. air strikes which were huge.
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if you talk to the ysatiss they say in no way a victory. they have no money to rebuild the city from the ground up and say what's going to stop isis from attacking in a few weeks and a few months and committing another massacre like happened last august in which hundreds of ysatis men, women and children were killed when they were taken into custody. children were taken as child soldiers and i spoke to some of the survivors this week who say they are terrified it will happen again. >> sophia jones with amazing report out of sinjar from erbil, iraq, right now. joining me, editor to the atlantic, graem wood is now working on a book about the group's ideology. graem, your article got a lot of
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play. it was controversial in certain quarters. how do you think what we've seen in paris and beirut and now it appears against russia fits with what your understanding has been of what "isis wants"? >> the first thing to say is isis back in march, 2015 when that article came out was doing quite well. now it is not. sinjar would be just one example. there are several others. and before its main focus was keeping territory, building a state. now what it seems to he have done is decided that it's time for a major change in strategy. and actually, adoption of tactics that before it thought were not a winning play. they thought it was old school al qaeda stuff to do spectacular attacks on places like pair lis.
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we're seeing the group changing fast. it's interesting to look at the ways that might -- that decision might have been come to. it has a lot to do with the setbacks. >> yeah, what does that suggest about whether what is being done from a strict military strategic sense is having a positive effect? >> yeah, i think it's definitely having a positive effect. it's a kind of slow motion military collapse we're seeing with the islamic state. that is, they've got to the point where they can't really expand much further because once they get any further, they start reaching shia majority areas, areas where they can't keep and hold. and instead you ethem roing back. even in a place like ramadi which was a site of one of their victories they're at this point reduced to holding a small portion of that city. that could disappear, too. so if these strikes continue with troops on the ground from the iraqi army but also most
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importantly the kurds, continue to take that territory away, then they're going to have to rethink their purpose for existence because they won't have a cal fate and territory for much longer. >> of course, the frightening for folks that are listening whether they being in paris or brussels or los angeles is if they have now decided, well, the thing that distinguishes us from al qaeda is we were an actual state and we held territory and we're losing some of that territory and now we are going to act more like al qaeda. we could be seeing many more attempts at the kinds of the things we've seen over the last two weeks. >> they used to say to al qaeda if you have september 11th style attacks what does that get you? it gets you invaded. you lose your base. now they're finding they lose their base anyway because there's this kind of air assisted effort by kurds, et cetera. so if that means that their response is all right, let's just try the old traditional al qaeda model of bombing western targets, then in the short run,
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yeah, you might very well see a serious uptick in activity like the paris massacre of friday. >> graeme wood, thank you very much. appreciate it. still to come, a look at the significance of a neighborhood that was targeted on friday. why the attackers chose those particular locations. that's right after the break. the beast was as long as the boat. for seven hours, we did battle. until i said... you will not beat... meeeeee!!! greg.
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what should i do with your fish? gary. just put it in the cooler. if you're a fisherman, you tell tales. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. put the fish in the cooler! hey! how are you?g? where are we watching the game? you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a fun side to every drive. nissan. innovation that excites. why pause to take a pill when a moment spontaneously turns romantic? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet
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(friends giggle) i can do dogs, hamsters, guinea pigs... you name it. i'm going to transform the way the world works. (proudly) i programmed that hat. and i can do casaba melons. i'll be helping turbines power cities. i put a turbine on a cat. (friends ooh and ahh) i can make hospitals run more efficiently... this isn't a competition! (patrick 2) pretty great.ke to be the boss of you? (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want- without having to ask anyone. who better to be the boss of you... (patrick 1)than me. i mean, you...us. (vo) go national. go like a pro. . some breaking news in paris. several french television stations, including the
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reporting. heavy gunfire in the northern suburb of saint-denis. this is something you posted on twitter. i believe we have that video, not confirmed by nbc news just yet. reportedly capturing the gunfire that started around 4:30 local time. again, right now they are coming up on 6:00 a.m. in paris. take a listen. [ gunfire ] . you can hear heavy, sustained fire. this gunfire reported by french media. french tv station reports that police forces have launched an
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operation there to catch another one of the paris terror attack suspects. and some officers have been hurt, reportedly. laura is they u.s. euro chief for france's canal plus. reporting that there is a large police operation linked it to the night attacker. what can you tell us? >> i can confirm to you that we have a report that he just confirmed that there is very important police action going on just inside paris. he reported that the gunfire began at 12:30 local time. 10:30 eastern time here.
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for 15 minutes he heard a lot of gunshots and also an explosion. then it went silent. in the past five minutes according to him, he heard gunshots. you have to remember that a few years ago that he was doing an attack against jewish people in france which were extremely violent. he barricaded himself. what is interesting is that the terrorist -- some of them, at least one of them claiming responsibility.
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he was waiting for the french police. we don't know at this moment if they are fighting the police forces. it's like the special forces in america. we call them the red. they are on site. they are exchanging fire with this individual. >> for those of us not as familiar with this area, with this northern suburb of sunday me, where is this in relationship to everything else that has transpired there in paris over the last few days? do standby for me. richard engle, the chief foreign correspondent on the line right now. richard thomas again, at this point all we have heard is that there is a large police operation under way. we have heard the gunfire

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