tv MSNBC Live With Tamron Hall MSNBC November 18, 2015 8:00am-9:01am PST
seven suspects are now in custody. we have new video of another raid that took place near a post office near saint-denis. france sent out an apb earlier today with a description of that car. a lot of moving parts right now. lot to get you caught up on. let me go to my colleague, nbc's erica hill, she joins us now from saint-denis. start first erica with what happened at that apartment, then give ufrs the ds the details on video we saw of the police raid at the post office. >> reporter: good morning, tamron. that raid happening me. it is behind me down the street. we were actually able to get fairy close earlier this afternoon. by a little after 1:00 local time they'd opened up the street to the point where it was only probably about a block away from the building that was the focus of those raids overnight. they lasted for several hours. there were explosions heard, gunshots, helicopters.
in fact the interior minister saying today when he praised the police who were involved saying that some of them told him it was one of the most violent raids they had ever been a part of. as you mentioned, they were led there by this female that they had been trailing who they believe had some ties to at least one of the terrorists. also the paris prosecutor saying that they had leads that led them to believe abdelhamid abaaoud might be in a conspirator's apartment in saint-denis. we are awaiting an update shortly from now. when they got to the apartment we're told as well they called for reinforcements. then there was extended, this extended event. we can tell you a local official called all of of this a big victory and said he didn't know if they were planning another attack but by his estimation what kw what was found showed, in his words, they were ready. in all, there were 414 raids over just the past three nights.
that's what officials are telling us. 64 people were arrested. 60 are being held for questioning. another 118 under house arrest. you also mentioned what happened at a post office not far from here. this is so interesting when we hear details. a newspaper reporting on its website that a man went into the post office to get money outs of his bank account. many people do bank at the post office here in france, presenting identification which of course is normal, that you may need to do that when you take out money. he presented a passport and i.d. card that had the name is a salah abdelslam. that's the name of one of the men police are looking for, he was stopped at the border around let go and is suspected of being an accomplice in the attacks in paris on friday night. he apparently left before the police got there. but then you have this video, when the police did come, there was a massive force and massive number of officers who descended on this post office. that led to some confusion in
the area. as you can imagine, this is a country and especially this city and areas around it -- we're in a northern suburb on edge, is putting it mildly. so the littlest thing is of course triggering a lot of stress and fear. they want to follow up on every lead that there is. so we could potentially be seeing more events like this. but very interesting to think that somebody would go to the counter and present a document with this name on it. that's one thing that we are keeping a very close eye on this afternoon. >> i know a lot is going on and you've talked with people as much as possible with these latest developments. do we know anything about the people who lived inside that apartment? >> we don't know a ton at this hour. trying to get some details. there have been conflicting reports so we want to make sure we get that right before we pass in he of it. breaking news also, the l e latest edition of an isis magazine contains a photo isis
is now claiming was used to bring down the russian jetliner in egypt's sinai peninsula last month. cal perry has the latest on what we're seeing. >> it is a 65-page long magazine this month. this is their propaganda machine now, woulding in overdrive. you'll hear me say, "they say," "they say," a lot. this is the front cover. this month's magazine, obvion reference to the paris attacks. referenced four times. pag pages. this is what isis says brought down the russian airliner. these passports are saying these are the people who carried out the attack. in the magazine they say that they were able to find a security gap at the sharm el sheikh airport. that's something that obviously has been worrying egyptian authorities throughout their investigation. one thing that's really interesting about this month's magazine, details about the paris attack can be found in
just about any newspaper that is out there. but this photo can't. this is new, tamron. >> cal, thank you. just a short time ago, cia director john brennan announced he's been sharing intel on isis with his counterpart in russia now for the past five weeks. nbc's senior white house correspondent chris jansing joins me now from paris with more on the stepped-up efforts by france and russia to combat isis in syria and again, chris, we are learning more from the white house and officials here about the information sharing that is going on right now. >> reporter: it really is remarkable, tamron, when you think about it. there was such a rift between the u.s. and russia over ukraine and crimea. now that they have found this common enemy, isis, they are coming closer together. and we know that after john kerry was here yesterday and talked with french president hollande, signals were sent from both sides that they really want to move forward and look at leadership from france, the u.s. and russia together to fight
isis. of course russia has another reason to want to get into this game even deeper and potentially stepping up its air strikes even more and that is isis' claim of responsibility for downing that russian jetliner. so suddenly you hear these two men speaking very flatteringly almost of each other. the president saying that vladimir putin could be a constructive partner and we're hearing putin say that the u.s. and russia must stand together. of course, we saw that picture of the two of them when they were both at the g-20 summit huddled together just the two of them with a translator talking bombings ond friday night in a way to work together. it does look possible there could be a new era of cooperation in this one area which is the battle against isis. >> i know you have a guest with you to talk more about the security effort, the shared information. before we get to the guest i with a'nt to play what josh earnest said about france and
the united states providing information that resulted in those targeted air strikes in syria that we've seen since the attacks on friday. let's play it. >> intelligence we've gleaned over the last year, military strikes that the united states and our coalition partners have taken over the last year have created an opportunity and laid the groundwork for france to step up and make their own contribution to our broader coalition. we obviously welcome their ramped-up contribution but there should be no denying the fact that the only reason the french are in a position to carry out this kind of response is because of the early investment in our military and in our intelligence that the president ordered more than a year ago. >> what you have here, chris, is certainly the united states and france responding to some of the criticism that this was an intelligence failure that somehow the attack that happened on friday perhaps should have been anticipated and that there was somehow a gap in between. so we're getting more information now from both
countries in an attempt to i think shut off some of the chatter that this was an intelligence failure. >> sure. i think that has only been intensifying as criticism, as you've been reporting over the last couple of days. there have been a lot of questions about the two fugitives that are still out there, including abaaoud, and opportunities that the intelligence community has had in the past potentially to get them. questions about whether or not they really thought abaaoud was in syria and is he in france right now. and questions being raised, even about the cooperation between the u.s. and france which is much less unusual than the one between the u.s. and russia. and why is it that we're now stepping up some of the cooperation that allows targeting of some of those places around raqqa and elsewhere where isis has strongholds. so without a doubt i think there are two prongs to this. one is they want to send the message that they're really stepping up in the face of what
seems to be a growing threat, but in addition to that, i think you're right, also to stave off some of the criticism that has only been intensifying, tamron. >> chris jansing, we'll check back with you later today. this hour with more from that location. but back here in the u.s. we are waiting to hear from secretary of state john kerry who's addressing the overseas security advisory council in washington. also right now, the house foreign affairs and homeland security committees are holding a rare joint hearing on the current threat posed by isis and other terror groups. joining me now, democratic congressman, a member of the house intelligence committee. congressman, you attended a briefing last night led by homeland security director jay johnston and james comey. we herd earlier in the week senator feinstein compare the mood of what she felt around 9/11, the security risks at that time. how do you assess where we
stand? >> well, the briefing yesterday, interestingly, was primarily focused on the refugee resettlement program. congress of course i think in some ways that are not particularly attractive have become sort of consumed around the fear that a refugee could be the vehicle by which somebody gets in here and does something bad. we spend a lot of time on the nature of the refugee resettlement program which was really useful. we learned a heck of a lot on something we hadn't focused that much about. but when fear is running rampant as it is here and bad decisions can be made when they are made under the pall of fear, getting facts out like in europe, in france, this attack, seven of the assailants that we know of were french citizens. we're so focused ond this possibility that maybe one syrian refugee was in it that we're not talking about the fact that seven french citizens were involved. a french citizen can get on an airplane in pairris and be at
kennedy airport seven hours later. we're not hearing that discusses. hopefully we focus on not just the fear of the moment but the broader picture. >> you just noted that many people will find of interest, that many members of congress did not focus on what would be required as far as information for some of the syrian refugees who could potentially be in the united states, the screening process, the details of the screening process. that's fascinating for many reasons because you had isis at one point threatening to infiltrate the united states and europe by embedding some of its terrorists within the ranks of refugees who need help. so it is surprising i think to some that lawmakers were not focused on the details, the screening process, to your point, even though there were seven french nationals, it only takes one individual to carry out a deadly act of terror. >> but it is important that we don't contribute to the overall
level of fear here. what we learned last night is that the are ef gee screening process takes 18 to 24 months. ob if you have an isis militant who wants to get into the united states to get into an 18 to 24-month process which involves interviews with the state department, time with department of homeland security, check against databases. and unless you have family in this country it is not likely you're going to get in. it turns out, by the way, that refugees, only 2% of refugees are actually single military age males. we are talking about children whose parents have been killed by barrel bomb attacks, the elderly, families that have connections in the u.s. these are important facts because, look. if we do what the mongers of fear around here are say something which is just shut down the flow of refugees, we're going to hurt a lot of people who are in exactly our boat or in the same boat with the french which is these are people who are fleeing violence and fleeing the horror of isis. for this country on thin factual grounds to slam the door on
people who should be on our team would be a mistake. that's not to say we shouldn't do a lot of work to make sure that that refugee vetting process is good. it must be good. but again, we got to be a little careful around here that we start dealing in facts. when congress acts on fear you get stuck on things like changing french fries to freedom fries or sthings lithings like war, where we just invade because we're afraid. >> congressman, thank you. we'll be talking with an agency based in your state who's assisted in bringing in some syrian refugees from -- who have been fleeing for their lives. that's coming up. also coming up, for the second time in just days, president obama blasting critics of the program we were just discussing that will bring syrian refugees into the united states. >> when candidates say we want -- won't admit 3-year-old orphans? that's political posturing.
>> why the president calls the heated debate over refugees and religion a potent recruitment tool for isis. it is part of this morning's "first read" in politics, how the presidential candidates are all reacting to the latest news out of france. plus, i'll talk live to the director of a connecticut group who's already relocated syrian refugees in to the united states. what he is saying about the intensive screening process here and about those who want to close our borders. more fascinating confessions from an isis spy, a man who joined the terror group. he's now revealing details of all the workings of isis, including the business side of the terror organization. how isis rules with more than just fear but with benefits from the people under its control. we'll be back. special olympics has almost five million athletes in 170 countries. the microsoft cloud allows us to immediately be able to access information, wherever we are.
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door for me, thank you very much for people, american and united states. i want to send message for american people. we are human. we are human. >> that is kamal, he's 1 of about 2,000 syrian refugees now living here in the united states. he says he escaped with his family after president assad's police beat not only him, but his 6-year-old son as well. breaking his son's arm. he and his family now live in houston. kamal and his family were only permitted to come here after a rigorous nearly 18-month screening process. joining me now, chris george who helps refugees from syria settle in connecticut. he's executive director in new haven, connecticut. thank you for joining us. i'm not sure if you just heard the congressman from connecticut
discussing what he's now learned about this screening process and as we noted, it is described as being rigorous. are you comfortable with this screening process that has allowed your agency to bring in syrians into the united states to settle? >> i am. and i think anyone who's involved in refugee resettlement is comfortable with the rigorous screening process. the u.s. government's screening process for refugees is the most intense, rigorous screening process in the world for refugees. it is multi layered. it takes a long period of time. if there is ever a question mark about a refugee, they'll be off the list. we err on the side of caution. >> we know that many of these people are fleeing. they don't have documents. they have in some cases really no proof of who they are, chris. when it's a situation like that. what do you know regarding the process, whether or not that person is allowed in or they're forced to stay out.
>> well, that's why it takes so long. face to face interviews. biometric checks. review of all of the intelligence agencies that we have access to. as i said, if we cannot get enough information on someone to feel comfortable that they're going to be safe here in this country and not pose any risks for us, they will not be invited to come in. this is the reason why so few syrians have been invited. only 2,000 syrians out of a total refugee population of about 4 million. these are mostly families. these are mothers and small children, they've suffered unspeakable horrendous persecution and violence. they need to be welcomed to this country. >> quickly, chris, by the numbers as well, half of the 2,000 syrian refugees in the united states are children. fewer than 50 are single men of combat age. you know the heated dialogue that's gone on. you go on to social media. there are photographs of men
under 50. i saw a banner that said, they are here, they are ready to infiltrate. but those are not the people that you've seen allowed in to this country. >> those are -- no. we have not welcomed any single men of combat age, so to speak, to new haven. we welcome mothers and fathers and children. those are the families, those are the syrian refugees that the u.s. government is focusing on. the u.s. government is hand-picking the refugees that we want to bring to this country. they do it across the world and we're doing it with syrians. the background collection is intense. >> chris, thank you so much for your time explaining it from your vantage point as someone who is on front line helping to assist these people in many cases who are fleeing and trying to find a place of safety. thank you so much. coming up, we will return to france. we have live reports for you where lawmakers have unveiled a plan to expand the state of emergency for that country for
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civil liberties. >> reporter: well, let's go back to what's happening in the national assembly at this hour. in a few moments president france swa francois hollande will introduce this bill to extend these measures for another three months. it is a set of war time powers. they were created during the algerian war the last time there was such a nationwide state of emergency was actually 1961 when the country was afraid there was going to be a revolt from the generals. what they include, impositions on curfews, the ability to tell people where to sta go or stay home, to pore gforbid large pub gatherings. also including powers to potentially censor the media. most significantly, these emergency powers would include the authority for police and security services to operate without warrants. to do searches and seizures without the usual judicial
oversight. that's precisely what the police have been doing in the last couple of days. they said in the last three days they have conducted over 400 raids and arrests more than 60 people. >> thank you very much for the latest from paris, olivia. we'll check back in with our team on ground. coming up, how the paris attacks and debate over refugees will affect the presidential race. plus, where does jeb bush stand on the refugees? after fumbling the issue yesterday, this as ben carson's campaign is on damage control after one of his own advisors questions carson's foreign policy knowledge and will have a new report coming up on the financial records of isis. how that terror organization is paying for some of these attacks. ♪ the way i see it, you have two choices; the easy way or the hard way. you could choose a card that limits where you earn bonus cash back. or, you could make things easier on yourself.
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reports are that a woman blew inside an apartment the police raided. she was a 26-year-old and was born in a northwestern suburb of paris. she's 1 of 2 suspects killed in the raid in saint-denis. seven people are now in custody. abdelhamid abaaoud is not believed to be among them. he is the alleged mastermind. agencies across europe are on the lookout for a vehicle that could be carrying the eighth attacker, salah abdelslam. there was a description of a vehicle sent out earlier today. and the latest edition of an isis magazine contains a photo of what isis claims is the bomb used to bring down that russian jetliner in egypt's sinai peninsula.
it also included a photograph of the passports isis claims are the passports used -- the individuals used to get on that jetliner to bring it down. nbc's senior white house correspondent chris janising joins me now with an update on the search for suspects on this new information in this isis magazine. if it turns out to be accurate, you had individuals on that aircraft with passports. we don't know if they were forged passports but now isis again claiming to show its hand in that attack. >> reporter: looks like kind after victory lap in that magazine, both related to the attacks here in paris. also to the downing of the jetliner. although there isn't anything in that. our folks have scrubbed through it that couldn't be found in public, so it isn't anything that gives positive proof that they were involved in either. but the question now really is how does this investigation move forward. seven people are under arrest. obviously will be interrogated.
how will that go? let me bring a former french global office employee and with the globalal risk consultancy. are they being interrogated now, do you suppose? >> yeah, sure. first of all they need to catch the main guy. abaaoud. still there are already arrests all the family of the men, the guy who everybody's searching for now. >> but if he's someone who's willing to die for the other cause -- maybe the other six or well. again we don't know that he's 1 of the 7. but why would they give any information? >> i think this guy will never, let's say, will never go forward speaking to the police. he will probably bomb himself. it is obvious. >> what are the chances the other people know something? the priority would be to get information that might thwart an
attack that's in the planning. >> you know that they will not have the police, they will not have the french authorities, they will not have the enemy so we cannot really get a lot from these people as what they could say to the investigators. but they can get information about details like traveling, what ways did they travel, to who they speak, what did they buy. seems like that trying to build up to understand what are the all over collection and how is the person collaborated in syria and prepared in belgium succeeded to hit france. that's what they are searching for now. >> thank you so much for being with us. obviously any bit of information that interrogators can get that can is lead them to other people
involved in isis or stop another plot that may be in the works. joining me now live, terror expert malcolm nance, 34-year-old veteran intelligence officer. let's look at this raid that played out, seven-hour confrontation there, a woman blowing herself up with a suicide vest there. someone taken into custody. the obvious conclusion here is that you have french police, you have their intelligence on the ground, and clearly something, someone, led them to this apartment. >> well, obviously french intelligence and french law enforcement shook the bushes over the last few days and as we've seen, they've had over 300 raids in just a 48-hour period. they captured over 200 illicit weapons, including a rocket propelled grenade launcher during this shakedown. so they gained some very good
intelligence, perhaps through electric intercepts, perhaps through just the tip from a person on the street. but they isolated this terrorist safe house and then put surveillance on it. and when the appropriate time came their raid force, which is their heavy direct action force assaulted the facility but then was met with this suicide bomber. >> malcolm, talk to me again about this wide net. 300 raids. we aren't even at a one-week mark here. logical question i think many people want to know, is this a list that they're working off of? are they casting this huge net? is the threat or that many people potentially involved that you have 300 raids in such a short period of time? >> i think they start off by doing good law enforcement which is casting a very, very wide net, going to all the personnel who may have had contact, who have had past contact, who may be running drug rings, who may be running weapons rings, who may be running all of these
illicit black market -- black market items which cross and intersect is the terrorist logistics network. so somebody had to know about those body -- nylon body armor carriers that they built explosives in. someone had to know something about those weapons. so by kicking down doors and going to places where they suspect weapons are and rolling them up, they gain intelligence from the people who are not as ideologically committed as the isis terrorists are. >> clearly as they gain that intelligence they are willing and ready to act on that information as we saw play out in two different scenes this morning. thank you very much for your insight, malcolm. president obama now blasting republicans who want to ban syrian refugees from coming to the united states. speaking in the philippines late yesterday, the president took a shot, if you will, at republican governors and 2016 candidates accusing them of giving in to fear. >> these are the same folks oftentimes who have suggested that they're so tough that just
talking to putin or staring down isil or using some additional rhetoric is somehow going to solve the problems out there. first they were worried about the press being too tough on them during debates. now they're worried about 3-year-old orphans. that doesn't sound very tough to me. >> meanwhile with terrorism and national security now front and center in the presidential race, ben carson's campaign is pushing back hard against a "new york times" story that one of his top advisors thinks the candidate is struggling with foreign policy issues. joining me live now, msnbc host, political correspondent steve kornacki with a lot to talk about. first i'm sure you saw on "morning joe" this morning, joe and others have criticized the president. he's on this global trip and he is taking aim at some of the republicans running for president who have focused in on the refugee crisis. >> i mean in terms of the domestic political response to paris, it's become this question of what to do with this plan of over 10,000 refugees. problem 40s president
politically is that even before the paris attacks took place when you polled this question of should the u.s. admit 10,000 syrian refugees there was a slight majority who were against it. it was 53% against, 41% for. that's polling before this. we haven't had polling come out yet on this, but the expectation is that when we do those numbers will move significantly against allowing these refugees in. so politically the republicans -- we should also say it is not just republicans now. there are some democrats like ch chuck schumer who are starting to speak up and say maybe we should hit the pause button on this. politically maybe the president isn't on as sturdy ground as he was a few weeks ago. >> we know the president's pledged to bring in 10,000 people but how much of this is distracting from the conversation of strategy regarding isis? here you have ben carson for example, a former advisor saying he is not up to snuff on foreign policy. donald trump and many others out there floated out these ideas of syria and isis and what to do but not in a substantive way. we're talking more about 10,000
people who are not in this country as of yet. >> it is interesting, too, the president of france is saying we, france, are at war with isis. this is war. he also said today than france would continue to admit refugees. would continue to admit syrian refugees. he said that life has to go on. it is interesting to see that playing out over there. but in terms of on this side of the ocean, ben carson, that's the interesting question to me. this story in the "new york times" yesterday, his top aide, one of his top aides, referred "the new york times" to this foreign policy advisor who basically said we need to sit ben carson down once a week to make him smart on these issues. the carson campaign is saying, whoa, this guy isn't actually that much of an advisor p, the "times" got this wrong. but this calls into question for ben carson this is a very risky moment for his campaign. people have said this is somebody whose personal story connects so well with republicans but when it comes to talking in detail about foreign policy, that has been his biggest weakness in this campaign. now we are at a moment where this country is focusing on national security and foreign
policy. >> it is interesting, it is a risky moment it seems for all of the candidates. the big moment from the gop debate, rand paul taking on marco rubio about military intervention, investment in the military by trillions of dollars and the answer to the strategy regarding isis is far more complex than the argument that we've seen many times of not in my backyard. and that's what the refugee crisis -- it's a visceral easy not in my backyard. >> it's true, though the general attitude particularly of the republican base when it comes to confronting isis after something like this does move in a more hawkish direction. when you look at somebody like rand paul, a few years ago ron paul talking about non-interventional in the wake of the iraq war. there was a lot of appeal to that on the republican side, a surprising amount of appeal. i think that window is really narrowing now as the republican party in particular moves in a more hawkish direction. >> a more hawkish direction but still very little detail on if there are boots on ground, how many -- we say boots, how many people should be on the ground
and in what way they would be used. that's what tripped up ben carson when he was talking about special ops and that showed his vulnerability in describing special ops on the ground in syria. >> donald trump said 10,000 at least. that question when you ask how many, you don't get a specific answer that often. >> a steve, you'll be covering this all day. up next, bank rolling terror. a new report looks at the many sorpss is of e sources of isis finances. can the flow of cash ever be cut off? we'll have more details. ok, we're here.
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♪ you make me feel ♪ so spring has sprung. we are back right now with the very latest from paris where we are learning more about one of the suspects involved in that seven-hour standoff with police this morning outside paris. french tv reporting 1 of the 2 suspects killed was a woman who blew herself up with a suicide vest. 26-year-old woman born in a northwestern suburb of paris.
in total, seven people arrested. the raid comes amid new details about how isis is funded and how it could have pulled off such an advanced plot. a new report outlines the sources of isis' cash flow and finds the group could have a much as $400 million at its disposal. msnbc editor cal perry has been going through the new flash point intelligence report. he joins us with the latest. cal, when you ask people about isis finance they usually say oil. that's what has come up in the presidential debates. but what have we found in this report? >> it goes far deeper than oil. we think their annual operating budget is somewhere around $500 million a year. think about all of the territory that they've taken in syria and in iraq and the banks that they overran. we think that they got somewhere in the neighborhood of $400 million in cash out of those banks. infrastructure and businesses. people who fled the fighting, fled the violence. they left their businesses behind and those have been taken over. we should also mention at this point those antiquities.
we're all familiar with the video of them destroying these antentiquitie antiquities. you mentioned oil, 22,000 barrels a day. the black market is huge for oil and antiquities. the human trafficking situation, they make a boat load money off of that. finally, taxes. in isis territory they tax people who live there. the tax can vary on both what the person is available to pay and also based on religion. >> talk about the black oick ma. they sell the oil. they sell the antiquities. who's willing to do business with them? >> we aren't just talking about antiquities. think of all of the gear left behind. u.s., american-made humvees. this is something they're able to sell on black market. it could be gun runners, drug
dealers, real anybody's who's into this sort of down and dirty stuff. >> which is incredible when you think about how this terror organization -- i believe malcolm nance calls them fifth generation of al qaeda. they've established themselves through terror and through some of the torture we'll discuss in a segment coming up. but they've established themselves financially, without an osama bin laden which al qaeda had his money. >> absolutely. it's like they've incorporated and they've got all of these branches out there and the money seems to be flowing in. we also talked about this magazine at the top of the hour. they make a lot of money through this kind of propaganda, this kind of recruitment. i think you are right to point out, it's like they've become a corporation. >> thank you, cal perry. the fascinating confession from an isis spy. a look at the business side of isis. more on how the group rules with more than just fear. this individual who joined isis has now started to reveal some
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as we continue to follow the search for the alleged mastermind in the paris attack and accomplices, we are following new information coming to light about isis. more stunning information is coming in from an isis spy identified as abu khaled talks about how suicide bombers are chosen. he believes he may have trained two of the paris attackers. this morning, the third part of the series goes inside isis' torture brigades to outline how they stay in power including torturing suspected spies. noah shackman, thank you for
joining us. this part of your series is incredibly interesting. this wide authority of casts pull in people whether are willing to divulge secrets that isis clearly wants to keep and to continue their terror around the world. >> yeah, that's right. these raids hopefully will garner information about the terror group and then we've gotten our own information from this man who was part of isis' internal security services. so some of the things that they did was they would torture people for pretty much anything. there was this cage in the town of ababb that would sometimes sit empty for a symbol of what would happen to people that broke their brutal laws. and people could be put in their
cage for anything from talking to girls and smoking cigarettes. it is really incredible. >> he also talked a lot about the paranoia in the organization as it relates to spies, that the isis leadership is always looking for those who may have been sent in to infiltrate the organization. >> yeah, that's right. there's a large degree of paranoia and a lot of paranoia particularly around these chips, these gps chips that you find littered around isis strongholds that were meant to be signaling devices they believe to have some reason for the drone attacks. so anybody they suspected being part of this spy chip operation would be executed. >> he talked about russia and raqqah, he had video and admitted it, didn't know if it
was under pressure, but he confessed. another man admitted to working for assad, both were executed. he talks about the fear of seeing isis in its brutality from beheading people from around the world, that they have captured, to running christians out and murdering them. but even within its own ranks, he points out they are willing to kill their own, in a sense, to keep that fear, to keep that power established. >> yeah, that is absolutely right. it seems that nobody was too important to sacrifice. and the degree of in-fighting between isis, between nationalities, between subdivisions of isis, that's something i don't think we really understood in the west, really in a detailed fashion until now. >> did he indicate there were others, perhaps ready to turn on isis and reveal more details? is he just one of a few? >> i don't think we know that
quite yet. i don't think we know that. >> it's an incredible series and we certainly appreciate you discussing this with us. this former man of isis was willing to divulge their secrets. thank you for joining us. and we'll continue to follow the breaking news from paris as to what is happening there on the ground. up next is "andrea mitchell reports." ♪ (vo) you can check on them. you can worry about them. you can even choose a car for them.
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the whole thing. i saw the raid, 20 cars passed by here. then, five minutes later the shooting started, he said. you heard the gunfire, i asked? i saw it with my eyes, he said. and now new intelligence, the mastermind of the attacks may have been hiding in paris all along. >> this represents a failure on the intelligence of french authorities. he said he was in syria. that's what we have been told. it appears he was the target of this raid. coming up here, france's top diplomat in the united states. and the former vice chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. plus, this just in, isis publishes a picture purporting that this is the bomb that blew up the