tv MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts MSNBC November 18, 2015 10:00am-12:01pm PST
york. shortly we'll go to thomas roberts where he's in paris where among other things he'll show us his interview exclusively with the u.s. ambassador to france. you're looking at the room where the french prosecutor, and as we have discussed, it's a title that doesn't really translate perfectly. think of, perhaps, district attorney in the united states, but it's the -- somewhere between district attorney and attorney general. the french prosecutor, the man who will be pressing charges, is going to brief the news media. this is critical because we will finally find out with some certainty the dead, the wounded, the missing, the still at large after this eventful 12 hours. last night's raid in the northern paris suburb of saint-denis about 4:00 in the morning local time, the first people were awakened by not just
gunshots, but deep heavy caliber weapons being fired. experts in the field said later it sounded like high-powered sniper rifles. as we wait for the prosecutor, let's start off with erica hill who is in that neighborhood in saint-denis. erica, it must be a tad erie now. >> reporter: it is a little bit, brian. a lot of the streets have opened up. when we first got here, a little after 1:00 this afternoon, they actually opened up a lot of the area that had been cordened. but down the street there were a couple white vans blocking off the streets. we were able to walk down there and just a block from there we saw the buildings that were the focus of this raid this morning. so what we do know as you said, brian, it started at 4:00/4:30 this morning. it was intense, to say the
least, in the way it's been described, explosions, the videos we have seen, you can hear clearly the explosions and the firing in those videos that people themselves shot. what the interior minister said that was interesting is he's praising the special forces police who were part of this raid. and said some of them told him that it was one of the most violent raids they had ever been a part of. so how did they end up here? well, what they are saying is there was a woman they had been trailing who they believe may be connected to at least one of the terrorists who led them here to this building. there was also a strong belief that perhaps a man who has been labeled the mastermind of the attacks in paris on friday, abdelhamid abaaoud was in the apartment, but they are not giving us clarification on that but hopefully we'll get that in the press conference shortly, brian. and we are told there were seven arrested, we are now told at least two dead.
that's from the change initially. we heard one woman was killed by explosives. now one of the law enforcement officials or lawmakers here calls this a big victory. while we don't know if they were planning another attack, based on what they saw it showed they were ready. to interesting choice of words there. and there was also an alert released that french authorities are asking people in the bordering nations to be on the lookout for another car situation. so that has people interested at this hour as well. but brian, i think we are all kind of waiting on the press conference, that is supposed to start any minute now to get more firm numbers and hopefully more details on exactly what happened during the many, many hours here in saint-denis. >> number one, i heard someone last night say he's surprised there is a door that has yet to be kicked down in all of paris. these raids have been so frequent, so aggressive, obviously for a big reason.
and secondly, the police enjoy public support in this. so they have everyone attuned. if you see something, say something as they tell us in new york. and more than that, if you see anything along the lines of what we're looking for, they were also assisted with one of the oldest, kind of behavioral traditions in law enforcement, and that is suspects, especially when we think they are on the run, sometimes return to the familiar, to their old haunt, their old building and neighborhood because they think they have friends there, they think they can hide more easily there and they think they could be a great peril getting on the motorway and going north to belgium. >> reporter: it's an excellent point. and it is something as you pointed out, brian, we have seen over and over again. not just in our own coy tuntry in other countries.
some startling numbers we got earlier after 3:00 local time, we were told in the last three nights there have been over 1,400 raids. many are being held for questioning. 100 are under house arrest and 75 different weapons have been recovered. so all of those things could really be interesting developments as we do see this appearing to be a full court press here. >> and the armaments that were inside the building were matched last night only by the armaments being fired at the building. this was a heavy gauge, heavy duty firefight. the aftermath in the light of day around the one central window looks like sections of the old beirut. >> reporter: yeah, and that is -- the interior minister, one of the things that struck out to me from him saying the officers that were a part of this raid, it is surprising that one of
them said this was the most violent events he had been a part of. which is saying something if you are part of a special forces police unit, brian. >> absolutely. the police have been hailed publicly in france. obviously, this is all new. there's not a police department, not an army in the world that has had to respond to something exactly like this. watching the live video from that neighborhood last night, the different jurisdictions were fascinating. the regular police, the kind of armored up special forces among them. french army regulars arrived in a couple of trucks, and they were kind of pulling perimeter security. and then, obviously, the specialists, the snipers who had reason to believe something was going on in that building. the french, as you know,erica, have made it known today they believe they stopped an attack that was imminent. >> reporter: they did.
and that is something important, obviously, too, for the french people to hear. i should tell you, earlier today i was with a woman who survived the attack at the bataclan speaking with her and her mother, and it is interesting to hear them say, especially after they woke up and saw the news this morning about saint-denis, the woman in the bataclan was so shaken because she thought to herself, this is it. this is life from now on. and i don't want to have to wake up to this over and over again. you can imagine, too, while so many people are really seeing something, saying something as we are so used to hearing in the united states, their new normal, is starting to set in. and to wake up to the raids, there's a part of it that is going to make them feel perhaps a little bit better, be somewhat comforting to know that these things are going on and that there are a number, hundreds of raids happening and that manpower is being put toward it. but, at the same time, to wake up and you can imagine the mindset and know that something
else may have been in the works and not very long after these tragedies is obviously really pulling at the heartstrings and has a lot of people on edge. >> erica hill in the far north paris suburb of saint-denis that many of us watched all night long while this raid was going on. if you were with us last night, you also saw chris jansing out on the place de republique. she and thomas roberts are with us. there must be a hangover there because of what everyone went through late last night into the early morning hours. >> reporter: absolutely, brian. people here are still living in this fluidity of shock after what happened on friday, but also the major crackdown we are seeing from french officials because now there have been 414 raids that have been conducted, 64 people arrested, 60 people in
custody. 75 weapons have been seized. and 118 people are under house arrest. you mentioned 9/11 before, and i just had an exclusive sit-down with the u.s. ambassador to france, jane hartley -- >> let me interrupt you because our press conference is just starting. >> translator: are the mikes working well? do you hear well? okay, i'm not going to touch anything. you let me know when you're ready. is the sound good? i'm hearing mike noises.
there's a general direction of the internal security who are working on the investigations and the magistrates of the paris prosecution. we must underline the efficiency of the magistrates and all of the people working on this investigation. the investigation was opened on friday the 13th. and it has progressed. the assault of last night demonstrated a new team of terrorists neutralized. and we think that concerning their weapons and organization and their determination that they were ready to act again. i will come back on this assault again, but first i wish to tell you of a result of the investigation. it was the result of the
telephone searches, testimony and different intelligence services. the investigations that have allowed us to establish an important logistic put in place by the terrorists, including cars, telephones, weapons and security in the apartment. the element of the logistic is very important used by three commandos, coordinated commandos to commit the attack on the stadium of france, against bars and restaurants in the tenth and 11th neighborhoods in paris and at the bataclan. so first, the investigations have shown that three of the vehicles, apollo, siat and the third arrived at the same time from belgium. ten minutes after the other last november 12th. the three vehicles were all rented by the first brothers of islam in belgium.
apollo and the cleo and the siat. this investigation in front of the bataclan hall was used by the terrorists were seen coming out of the car right before they went into the concert hall. the black siat was used by the commander of three men having show d showed the bars and restaurants, the gps of those vehicles and the video have taken us to this conclusion. the searches have allowed us to describe three assault rifles, kalashnikov and the papers. we also had five chargers, three empty ones and three knives. the black cleo found on the 17th
of november in paris arrived in the evening of friday near the plaza pompidou centre. they were control led -- two individuals answered to ahmed. this shows that the two did not appear in the attacks. the investigation concerning this has alerted the belgian authorities and the belgian police arrested on the 14th of november the two occupants who
were hurt and then indicted and put in prison under the authority of a belgian judge. so the rule of the individuals seemed to be determined, but it seems that they came in the night of paris to look for abdel salem to take him back to belgium. the vehicles observed by the terrorists also led us to the telephone. some of the investigations are still ongoing. to determine the localization of the terrorists in the hours thus proceeding the assault, the attacks. in order to establish the differences they may have had or developed. i can confirm that a cell phone was found in a trash can outside of the concert hall bataclan. and a text was sent by a member of the commando to 21 to 42
hours saying we are going to start now. and the investigations are concentrating to determine what, who the text was being sent to. about the weapons used by the three commandos, it is an arsenal of war weapons. i have said in the former press conference after the assault, so these are kalashnikov assault weapons and explosive weapons with tatp. hundreds of weapons were found in the crime scene showing to be used against the victims. three kalashnikovs were taken from the bataclan. in the french stadium, we found detonators, batteries that were going to be used for the
explosion. the quantity of the nature of the weapons of the terrorists show the tournament action that was confirmed again tonight, this is something more i will talk about, but first more on the conspiracy. you know that several of them were localized. this apartment was rented for four people on november 17. everyone was localized after a witness rented the house from the 10th to the 17th of november 2015. a search of the places are still being done. there was a third apartment. we can say that a very large logistic was implemented by the terrorists constituting an
operational commando and then three assaults. as you already know, we identified five of the seven terrorists killed during the assaults on the 13th of november. two dead, one from the bataclan is not identified and the investigation is ongoing. the investigation is looking into the exact composition of the three commandos. so about the operations last night and this morning, the investigations that were made by the investigators allowed us to identify a building situated in saint-denis. a building that could be the hiding place by abaaoud. the apartment was on the third floor. the investigators themselves entered the apartment after testimony saying that abaaoud
might be there. abaaoud is suspected of being the mastermind of many other projected attacks in europe. on behalf of daesh. this testimony received on the 16th of november at the end of the day has to be taken seriously but it could also be a manipulation. so it was the only of many verifications, a bank and an assault that happened at 4:23 in the morning that took place in two apartments by the men of the red along with the men of the bri in the neighboring apartments. this man of whom i thank is the result of the professional dedication risked their lives in the assaults. tonight five police from the red were wounded. it was a very difficult assault.
the bullet-proof of the apartment resistant to the first charge allowed the terrorists to prepare their retaliation and interrupt the shooting that went on for about an hour. i can tell you that we did about 100 shots. this was very difficult given the circumstances, the different complex character of the operation where grenades, assault rifles were needed. one of the terrorists exploded herself, destroyed part of the building and the third floor. and then the state of the carcass will need forensic expertise. we managed to arrest three
individuals who were wounded in the arm. these three men were immediately taken into custody. their identities are being verified, that's all i know for the time being. i cannot communicate any more elements concerning them. an explosion took place. this was a chemical explosion. and then a body was found. the state of the body does not allow at this point to be identified. the first elements of the investigation and interrogation of the police led us to think that the explosion was consecutive to a woman having activated the explosives. this still needs to be verified by the examination of the corpses and body parts and all the forensic operationals that still need to take place. i repeat, the operations in the building are extremely delicate and at the time i'm speaking i
cannot give you a definite number of casualties or the identities of the people. we know there were at least two casualties and the building is in danger of falling down. also it is very damaged, so it needs to be consolidated so the investigators can work in security. the police in the red discovered in the rubble two men, one who was wounded. those two individuals were also immediately taken into custody. other operations were simultaneously taken in saint-denis. this happened at the conflict of the commando. it happened at this apartment that was full of occupants. the suspect whom we have seen on television was arrested on the street near the apartment.
also a woman that was with him was arrested. the search of this apartment did not lead to uncover any weapons. another individual who was hurt on the street who we suspect to have a role in this apartment was arrested and is in custody. so there are eight people, seven men and one woman in custody. now the identities of the people arrested in the building have not been formally established but i must say that abaaoud and salam are not part of the -- those found.
this investigation also is determining the condition in which the attacks were acclaimed at the time. now we have to find out the exact role of the brothers who claim this act. the terrorist who hit hard, it is tragic for the victims and their families. please, you should know the public powers and the public prosecutor is at the memorial service of the victims and their loved ones and families. i thank you. >> no q&a as you saw. that was francois molins. he gave as thorough resuscitation as he could of what is known after the initial friday night terrorist attacks,
but more urgently what went on last night. a pitched battle, fire being exchanged he said for an hour or more. 100 rounds coming from the police side. the suicide belt going off inside the building that caused structural damage. while he was speaking, our own erica hill in the saint-denis neighborhood not far from where the shoot-out was last night, felt and heard a concussion, an explosion of some sort, and erica, what have we been able to find out what that was? >> reporter: brian, this happened probably five or six minutes ago. i looked at my phone and it said 7:20. i was listening to the translation of the press conference and all of a sudden we heard a loud boom. i can tell you everybody here stopped, turned around and looked behind us because it sounded like it came from behind us with the building was where all the activity took place.
everyone started to run trying to figure out what happened. we are told that someone left a bag and not knowing what it was, authorities decided to blow up that bag. we have seen this happen before. so we're told that's what it was. the situation obviously a little fluid right now. there's a large mass of people that have made their way down -- i mentioned that they opened up a lot of the street, so i'm not sure if you can see quite down that far, but right through the base of that street there are two white vans basically blocking it off. everybody ran down to that section because at this time this is as close as you can get to that building, which did suffer structural damage as well as you noted, brian, that we just heard. and the investigation, of course, continues. so we're sort of -- we will try to get a little closer there. one of our producers is down as close as she can be. that's where we have the information on the bag. everybody did jump a little bit, brian, i can confirm that. >> let's hope all that happened is someone had their dinner or gym clothes exploded. this does happen and last night at the height of it, if you were
watching closely, you could see folks from the neighborhood being stopped, people coming home late, people leaving for work early trying to get on their motorbikes. having their phones taken from them, having their backpacks looked through, it's just been zero tolerance because the french authorities are looking for someone among them, a person or persons responsible for this terrorist act. and if our translation came through correctly, i believe the french prosecutor said that abaaoud, the alleged mastermind, was not, they don't have positive i.d.s yet, but they do not believe he was among the people last night who were killed. so thomas roberts, we were talking to you before the press conference began, sorry for the
interruption. and i imagine a lot of people in paris were watching and listening. >> reporter: absolutely, brian. because so many people are curious about what the french prosecutor had to say about the investigation. certainly about what took place today in saint-denis as people are waiting for more explanation. and erica being there on site and hearing what was detonated, we can only imagine what people are thinking after what they lived through overnight. but you did hear correctly about abdelhamid abaaoud not found and also abu salah abdeslam not
found. chris jansing was here working overnight trying to uncover what was taking place there. >> reporter: i think what the headline is that they want you to hear is they have broken up the terror cell, right? >> reporter: neutralized. >> reporter: neutralized the terror cell. what people are wanting to hear is that the mastermind was finally found. because both of the guys you mentioned who have a long history with isis, who have a long history of destruction, abaaoud, in particular, tied to a number of isis incidents is still out there. and both have slipped from their grasp before. so what are they going to do about it? well, you mentioned 414 of these raids that they had last night, obviously, by far the most extensive. but that is all being done under a state of emergency that was declared, that only lasts for 12 days. so now president hollande is looking to extend that for up to three months. what does that do? it has a kind of -- it gives
them a broad power to do what they did, to go in without a warrant, to do wiretaps, to put people under house arrest, and those are all the things that they want to continue to do. this is not over, not just because they didn't get those two who they have been naming, but because they believe there are still more threats out there broadly. >> reporter: president hollande is going to be presenting something to his parliament to ask for an extension of the broad powers. and i think people back home would recognize that as something akin to the patriot act, even broader capabilities of what the patriot act offers. >> reporter: when you talk to parisians, they will say to you in "charlie hebdo" there was that conversation and the french felt strongly, we are not going to go the way america did after 9/11. we are not going to go in the direction of the patriot act. having said that, what we heard from president hollande today is, yes, this limits liberty but
for a good reason. by the way, this also would allow them to really control the media. he said, that is something that they have no intention of doing, but it does fall under this broad power of this state of emergency. >> reporter: one thing, and this was a speech that was given today by president hollande to a coalition of all french mayors that had assembled, and he was talking about the fact that they are trying to attack and he was speaking about the terrorists, trying to attack their way of life. and trying to go after that because that's what they hate. and the biggest thing that they were trying, at least from hollande's point of view, to say to the mayors, go back to your people and tell them we are working together to neutralize the perpetrators of this attack because they cannot divide us. and level-headedness moving forward is going to be one of our strengths. >> reporter: it's a scene of resilience. look at the people behind us, they are coming out to show, first of all, their support and their respect for the people who were killed in the attack friday
night. but people woke up with a sense of unease, what is going on? was there another terror cell? did they get these guys? which now it appears they did not. and many of us have adjusted to the post-9/11 era, i talked to somebody this morning and also witnessed it yesterday when i went over in the area of the concert hall, people going into grocery stores now have to open their bags. people going into the post office have to open their bags. one woman told me she went to the local shopping mall here in paris, not only did she open her bag but they were wanding her. they have not set up a bigger apparatus here, but already there's the constant reminder as you go around that this is a city that feels very much, as the president said, at war. >> reporter: lou lesco, one of the survivors from the bataclan, i spoke to her yesterday and she said, we walked in, nobody
checked your bags or patted us down. this is a very famous venue here in paris. but it seems as if that shift is happening, where people are upset with the change. >> reporter: you walk into a broadway theater, so many places in america, you go to a football game, and not just this past weekend when they had stepped up security at the nfl, you go into an nfl game and they are checking your bag, so this is something that is, in some ways, become a part of american life. but it's something they had resisted after "charlie hebdo" and could be part of the change we're seeing here. >> reporter: so one person that remains so pivotal to all of this is the person they consider to be this lynchpin, abdelhamid abaaoud. there are unidentified bodies but we want to make sure they have not identified him, no.
they are also working on the identity of seven men and one woman that they have in custody. but the biggest takeaway so far is those two people that they want so badly, salah abdeslam and abdelhamid abaaoud. >> reporter: and there could be information to lead to other things in the works. is that cell in the planning stages for something else? so you can bet that they have these special teams that they formed back in the '80s and '90s are doing heavy interrogating right now. >> reporter: our colleague brian williams is back in new york with more. >> yes, thomas, we are reviewing everything we all wrote down and recorded from that news conference. and an arsenal of war weapons was a quote from what the
prosecutor said. this group, this cell was able to rent a total of three apartments, rent a total of three cars. they talked about the guns they recovered that were and were not used in the attacks. the clips of ammunition. and chiefly and unsettlingly for the people of paris and france, they were ready to act again is what the prosecutor said. a new team of terrorists reformed, apparently. and we will continue to chase down reports on the mastermind, abaaoud, to see if he's among the dead, to see if he is still at large or indeed has been killed, neutralized in that attack last night. the prosecutor certainly used the word "neutralized" when
talking about the victims of the shoot-out last night. again, a pitched battle for what sounds like an hour with explosions. he talked about the bravery of the french, in effect, police commandos. they were set up in sniper locations once they had a pretty good idea of the location of the apartment. early on in the evening we saw some video of townspeople in saint-denis walking around with those reflective blankets on. and it was readily apparent these people had been roused from their homes in the middle of the night and quickly taken outdoors and told it's not safe for you to stay here. just part of a very jittery last 12 hours. richard engel, our chief foreign correspondent and lester holt are in the streets of paris for us again tonight. and gentlemen, life on the
streets of paris must be a really shaky situation because now they have learned that they came very close to this kind of second spinoff cell acting again. >> reporter: i think people probably sensed that when they heard about the raid in saint-denis earlier. and i'm not sure the word has filtered around, but we just heard of the news conference and the prosecutor, but he did note this appeared to be a team ready to act. he was not specific in terms of act today or tomorrow or the next week, but certainly ready to act and certainly ready to repel the raid. richard, you picked up on this being the first time the prosecutor really laid out much of the tic-toc of the events of friday and how they got away. >> reporter: well, we were here on saturday and started immediately trying to figure this out. and it's been incredibly difficult. there have not been routine press conferences. there's not been routine
briefings. there have been some leaks, a few statements, but it has been very difficult to piece it all together. this was by far the most detailed account where he laid out the three different teams, the kinds of weapons, who rented the cars, how many cars, and we learned quite a bit from this. we learned that the two brothers, the brothers rented the cars. we learned that the mastermind, it's been speculated all day, that the mastermind would you describe the target of the raid, and he was the target of the raid based on a tipoff. and he may have been killed in the raid. he certainly wasn't captured according to prosecutors. there are two bodies and they think, they don't know the identity of one of them. >> reporter: they don't know the identity and also confirmed that report we heard about the cell phone outside the bataclan that was in a trash can, that proved to be useful intelligence in how they would piece this together.
>> reporter: what a horrible message. do you remember the message? it says, we're ready to go. >> reporter: let's go. >> reporter: that was found outside the bataclan. and we have been talking about what happened inside the bataclan theater. to find a cell phone there from the attackers, the quote was, we're ready to go. there it is, ready to go. >> well, in football they talk about the 12th man, and in this case, there really is such an added benefit with the public on the side of the investigation. everyone has been warned. everyone is hyper aware of what to report, what to look for, to report any suspicious. that really is a -- what the military calls a force multiplier in this investigation. >> reporter: everyone is see something, say something. we got word that there was an
evacuation at one of the train stations here in paris. we got there and people were crowded in the street. as we pulled around the corner, we heard a small explosion. we went out to see what was going on, it was simply one of those explosive disrupters that police use to render suspicious packages. harmless, it turned out to be nothing, but people in the streets clutching their hands to their face wondering, is this another attack. and i think you're going to see the city to continue to be on edge here as not everyone accounted for so far who they believe to be responsible for friday's attack. >> richrichard, you were on foo last night in saint-denis reporting by telephone, and i was curious to hear your analysis of that first clip of audio we heard of the first exchange of gun fire. maybe it was not an exchange, maybe two directions from the same -- two different sniper teams of police, but it sounded
to a lot of people like a very big caliber and certainly not a handgun. >> reporter: it sounded like automatic weapon. and the message on the phone was, we're going to start now. but to answer your question, brian, what happened was, we were actually in this part of paris last night in the middle of the night. and we just finished reporting. and early indications came in that there were some gunshots in this neighborhood, saint-denis, outside of paris. since it was only 4:30 in the morning, there was no traffic. we jumpeded in the car and got there in 10, 15 minutes. and there was still some gunfire, it was patchy, the main gun battle was over by the time we were there, but police were incredibly nervous. they were just starting to set up their corden to secure the area and themselves. and as we approached them, they raised their rifles, they pointed them at us and chimed their flashlights in our faces
and told us in no uncertain terms to back up. and now we learn from the federal prosecutor there was not just one raid. that's the other thing we learned, there were two raids. the first raid they went into that apartment, made some arrests, what they presume to be a female suicide bomber deton e detonated her device killing herself and this other unidentified person. and then another team of police commandos raided another apartment. that turned out to be what the military called a dry hole. we didn't know exactly what we were watching from our vantage point, but we were watching this unfold for several hours. we heard at one stage a series of, i think they already probably controlled detonations, flash bangs, some breech of explosions, but there could be other explosions that we couldn't tell from our vantage point. it was a very intense situation, very prolonged situation, and then it was only six, seven,
eight, nine hours later that the police gave the all clear. >> reporter: and two of the people arrested were arrested outside, the individuals who -- they believe offered the apartment up. >> reporter: there was so much detail that we have been looking for in this briefing. so they arrested three people in the apartment. two were killed in the apartment. the woman and this still unidentified man. the blast was on the third floor collapsed part of the floor. and then in the rubble searching through the apartment they found two other individuals. and then they found two more people on the street. >> richard, we also know that they had a lot of fire equipment standing by last night because they sensed that risk that they were dealing with people who had used explosives before. i think they were worried that may use fire as a weapon or
means of escape. so the plethora of responders visible on the select live camera shots we were getting here in the states was incredible. we saw regular french army arrive. we saw police of many different ranks and jurisdictions. and then down -- the column of police going toward the front, their bravery praised once again today by the prosecutor there in paris. >> reporter: well, they had much better intelligence. the main attack, the massacre that brought this country to where it is right now, caught france by surprise. they knew this time what they were likely to face and went in heavy. they went in the hundreds of troops and special commandos, fire brigades, ambulances, it seems like every kind of emergency service that is available in france was sent to that place. there was a helicopter in the sky shining down a beacon, a
search light. we saw the s.w.a.t. teams using laser pointers to indicate specific points on the building of interest, particular windows and particular walls. they went in there very prepared. >> ygentlemen, we see behind yo it's another night in france. coming up at 8:00 p.m. in the city traditionally where the city is getting started with its evening, but more people than normal are out to bear witness to all this and to make a show of it, frarnkly, in public. lester holt, richard engle, we'll take a brief break in our coverage and come right back. staying in rhythm... it's how i try to live... how i stay active. so i need nutrition... that won't weigh me down. for the nutrition you want without the calories you don't... introducing boost 100 calories.
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just about ten minutes to 2:00 here on the east coast. we have learned much more in this past hour. a lot of it from the french prosecutor, the kind of district attorney for the city of paris who led reporters through what is known on the trade as a tick-tock, the moment by moment of the initial terrorist attacks on friday and what was blown up and what was discovered and what tipped police off to last night's raid in the far northern paris suburb, the neighborhood of saint-denis. we get at this point to talk to our friend christopher dickey, an american who is overseas, these days he's a former editor of "the daily beast." a man from here but has lived in paris for decades. it's in that context that i'm curious, chris, what this has done since you read, watch and hear french media.
what has this done to life? especially the added stress of last night's raid? >> well, you know, i think there's an undercurrent of fear are looking over their shoulders. they're nervous. when you wake up in the morning as we all the did this morning that there's bombs going off and assault rifles being fired in saint-denis, really, part of paris, people are i think shocked and very nervous. >> devibe saint-denis. it's hardly tourism paris that most visitors to the city would not have cause and maybe except the basilicas to go there. >> well, that's right. in fact, you're right. few tourists go there and almost all the kings of france are buried there in st.-denis at the basilica and very near the stadium, the stade de france
where the tourists trying to get in and blow themselves up on friday night in one of the operations. it's a very mixed neighborhood. a lot of people from africa and north africa and also asian, south asian backgrounds live in that neighborhood. it's, you know, some parts of it known to be fairly rough. this was a very quiet street. not exactly an alley but a quiet street between two relatively large thoroughfares with a couple of schools on it. a kind of place where probably the people in the incident this morning thought they could lie low and not attract a lot of attention. >> yeah. looking at some of the signs of the businesses there, making my best effort to decipher what kind of establishments they were, it looked like the high street in a small town, it looked like mixed residential, retail. i didn't note until now about the schools and didn't look
particularly sketchy. >> no. it is not particularly sketchy and it is also not one of the areas what they call the setee and the housing projects on the outskirts of paris that can be really very rough and sometimes virtual no-go zones for the police. this is not that kind of neighborhood. this is a kind of neighborhood that's mixed enough so you have people, maybe the woman was wearing a veil, probably she was, wouldn't attract very much attention. but fortunately the police i think mainly through tapping into various phone conversations including and especially hers because it's been reported here, we don't have confirmation and probably true that she's a cousin of abdelhamid abaaoud the focus of the investigation and monitored before the events so i think apparently that's how they closed in on the apartment. >> christopher, u.s. congressman
waiting to talk to us. one point thing about the point of entering shopping malls, the checking of bags, wanding of people. this is something that people saw in the case i keep citing is israel during the heavy bombing troubles there. we have it at public events in this country. fairly new i understand for businesses like that in paris. how are they going to embrace that? >> well, i mean, i bought this scarf this evening and had to have a bag checked when i went into the sports shop where i bought it. it used to be, yeah, they check your bag going out to make sure you weren't stealing anything. now, obviously, they're concerned you're bringing something in to hurt other people and that is new. >> christopher dickey, thank you for being with us as you have throughout this from paris and i'm quite certain we'll be talking now and with our
apologies, congressman bradley burn of alabama, you have been patient enough to listen to all of this coverage with us. i'm curious to get your reaction first off. >> well, obviously, we have an ongoing very dangerous situation occurring in paris. the parisian authorities appear to be taking it very seriously and showing great success going after these people. my hat's off to them. it's not over. it's not over for the united states. so we all need to be on our toes. we now have a specific threat against washington, d.c. and given the track record of these people we should take them at their word and do everything we possibly can to defend the american people and defend a people around the world who want peace and don't want to be a part of this nonsense. >> i know you're on house services. as such, you were in on the security briefing yesterday. how worried should people be in this country based on what you've -- what's been shared
with you? >> well, i think that we're doing a good job in general of making sure that we are on top of everything credible threat that we know of out there. i can't share a lot of details because it was a classified briefing. the one point of worry, the thing i think many members of congress are very concerned about is the syrian refugee program to bring syrian refugees into this country. we have a very credible threat from isis that they're trying to sneak their terrorist fighters in with the refugees. we do not have information on the ground from syria to be able to know who the refugees are so we cannot be sure we're not letting into this country refugees who are in fact terrorists so that's the one part i think all of us in congress have concern about. some of us have a lot of concern about. >> you introduced legislation to defund it. i know the case for it is getting tougher to make the more we learn from overseas, the president's been out ahead of it. i heard the governor of delaware
yesterday speaking strongly in defense of it. the hard part is convincing americans that these incoming refugees have been thoroughly vetted. >> you can't convince them they have been because we can't thoroughly vet them. we have a really good system for vetting them but the system depends on having information in it that we can only get from people or assets on ground to tell us who's this person? what do we know about them? we don't know anything about them because we haven't had an ability to get the information from the ground so because of that level of misinformation or noninformation many of us in congress feel like it's just not safe to bring this particular group of refugees here. let me make it very clear. the vast majority of us in congress support a refugee program in general. it's this particular population that has a heightened threat with it we're very concerned about. >> bradley byrne, republican of
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top of the 2:00 p.m. hour in the east. brian williams with you here from msnbc headquarters in new york. and paris, france, the dinner hour is beginning. nightfall has arrived. the city goes into another evening knowing that last night most of them went to bed unaware that police were slowly approaching, slowly encroaching on a three-story structure knowing, having a reason to believe terrorists were inside. police snipers opened fire. started a one-hour gun battle. one of the features of that was
a female terrorist wearing an explosive belt blue herself up. looks like she took another life with her. and looks like she took the third floor floor with her, as well. we've been saying that through all the trouble in paris, one reassuring beacon literally and figuratively has been the eiffel tower which again tonight is lit up in the tricolors of the french flag and it has never had more meaning in the modern era to people looking up at it, the revolving search light at the top, as it has this week. it looks like we have avoided the rain this evening that's dampened things in paris. let's go to chris jansing who i happen to know is up all night because, chris, i was watching you in the place de la
republique talking about the vehicles whizzing by going north to the suburb of st.-denis as the sun came up this morning your time. tell us what the situation is like there today and i guess people have -- the word from the briefing is starting to filter through of how close they came to another attack last night. >> reporter: i don't think it surprises anybody, brian. there's been since friday this pervasive apprehension and you can understand it because from one day president hollande said we are at war talking about the threat that isis poses. saying again over the last 24 hours about the number of raids, 414. again, looking to extend this state of emergency. this is a city and this is a country that has really in many ways been under siege since friday night because those raids have taken place across the country.
they have taken place in toulouse and been a sense of concern and same time i was at the eiffel tower, the beautiful picture you showed a few moments ago, very late last night. i was taking a tour of the city with an american who has lived here for 20 years. i wanted to get a sense of how it felt to him. was it different? he thought it felt very different, much quieter. i must say going to a couple of different memorials, people have been very quiet and very respectful. but there was a crowd in spite of the fact that the eiffel tower last night itself was not open. obviously, you can see how beautiful it looks in the evening. again, people very respectful, very quiet. i think everyone's trying to work through the emotions. we talked to some folks earlier today from saint-denis. the international red cross sent up a counseling center there and
said imagine it's dead of night and hearing gunshots and explosions and the mere fact i think everyone here is so on edge that when a siren goes by us, as they did as you mentioned this morning, something that in a city normally people don't pay much attention to, suddenly people are watching, where is it going? how fast is it traveling? this is, again, i think by many people's measure, the beautiful city on earth and one that feels tonight as it has since friday night another emotion which is mourning and still some fear. >> chris, talk about this dynamic in the last hour and that is the smallest shops, the smallest cafes, now do bag checks which we're used to as you pointed out. nfl games, baseball game, big concert events, certainly the airport in this country getting a security check. paris, france, not so much. a small bistro, a small
boutique, not so much. >> reporter: yeah. and i think that other interesting thing i observed last night is it was very, very nice out. it's been unseasonably nice weather and people were still going to the cafes and maybe it was just my own observation, maybe i'm making too much of it, but it seemed a lot of people were taking seats away from the door. and facing toward the door as if maybe consciously or unconscious looking to see what might be coming in. so making that effort to get out but maybe not as relaxed as you might be in an evening when you're having a nice glass of wine. and the people i watched as they were going into the grocery store last night, right across this small park or median across from the bataclan was a grocery store and i sensed a little surprise. a startledness, maybe someone forgotten about it for a second and walk into the grocery store and a security officer there and
of course they very quickly and willingly from my observation open those bags. it is a realization that people are having that their way of life may change. and it is something that we in the united states and certainly we who have lived in new york, brian, have come in many ways to take for granted. i suppose you could say a necessary evil but they're coming to it reluctantly here and made a conscious choice after the "charlie hebdo" attacks of that violence that was not where they wanted to go. >> yes. i'll say further, every possibility when you come back to washington where you cover the white house, when you come back to new york, you may sense a difference here, too, in slight ways. most of it having to do with how people look around, interrelate with each other, how they relate with public transit and so on. chris jansing who we watched all night long in this country with the sirens whizzing by on their
way to the shootout in saint-denis to the north. chris, thanks. let's go to saint-denis where erica hill is standing by. where you are, i know you listened carefully to the paris prosecutor in effect, the paris district attorney, talking about what we know now, what we know unfolded there last night. the clues they have picked up. go through as much as of it as you can to fill in the blanks. >> reporter: from the very beginning, the prosecutor said it was a very difficult assault. one of the things that stood in the way was an armored door. on this apartment. they ultimately went into two different apartments. there was as it was put heavy uninterrupted gun fire for an hour. we know 5,000 rounds were fired just on the police side alone. so just think for a moment about the shear amount of ammunition that that is.
again, they were sort of -- when they got there and confronted with an armored door, obviously, i believe the prosecutor said at one point this kind of gave the terrorists a little bit of extra time while these special forces here, had to figure out how to get in there and they did get in. they walked through the number of deaths. we know it started at 3:41 a.m. and went into two apartments and as i believe you mentioned in the first apartment where a woman blew herself up. that killed someone else and also caused structural damage and concern about the building behind me. i want to play a little bit of what the prosecutor said. there's questions about how many people were taken into custody, how many people were killed and most notingly whether or not some of the people they're specifically after, the master mind, abdelhamid abaaoud, and also the man known as the accomplice, salah abdel slam, whether or not they were involved here. take a listen. >> translator: seven men and one woman in custody. now the identities of the people
arrested in the building have not been firmly established but i must say that abdelhamid abaaoud and salah abdel slam are not part of the people in custodies. >> reporter: so -- and that is, brian, what is getting a lot of attention. not in custody. the very specific wording there. why is that getting attention? we know that people were killed here, terrorists were killed. they have not all been identified. one thing else pointed out, a woman who blew herself up given the nature of what happened in an event like that, there is still much to be done in terms of forensics and figuring out, of course, the identification of some of those people. that's part of it and part of what's taking a little while to identify people. one other thing, brian, is this was really a very detailed account of not only what happened here but also of what happened on friday night in paris. things that were confirmed, that cell phone that was found outside the bataclan theater with a text message on it,
confirmed that, yes, that was a cell phone that belonged to one of the terrorists. the presser, the prosecutor, rather, confirming there were three teams each with a rented car, the weapons that were used, talked about the timing. all of that detail very interesting. three different cars rented. different apartments. all of that getting a lot of attention in this press conference. questions were not taken afterwards and then while we were listening to it, you were listening, as well, brian, about five minutes before the end of it we heard an explosion here in saint-denis. we are not far from the building where everything happened. everyone paused and looked up and around. that was as the police told us a police controlled detonation or explosion and using the words interchangeably. the initial one there was a bag left there and a second one before 8:00. we checked on that. we were told it was the exact same thing yet again. a police controlled detonation or explosion. we are familiar with these things in the united states. but as you can imagine in a city
and a country, frankly, where everybody is on edge, had a lot of people jumping for a moment. we could see the people in the windows to the sides of us opening up the windows, peeking out, seeing what was going on. journalists and locals to run down there to figure out the cause of the noise after hours of that raid here. earlier today. >> just after 8:00 in the evening. erica hill in northern paris suburb of st.-denis that saw all of the action overnight into the morning hours and, erica, thank you for clearing up that snippet from the press conference. what we heard the prosecutor say is this abdelhamid abaaoud, the master mind so-called, not among those in custody. that and perhaps other information has led some news agencies to declare him dead. we have not. that is a long and forensic and detailed investigation that we assume is going on.
probably using dna among other pieces of evidence. on the terrorism front, we also woke up to a photograph that spoke to the downing of the russian commercial jet that looking back was the first event in a string of events that gets us to today. tom costello covers aviation. he is with us from washington. and, tom, what a busy night on your beat. before we learned of the shootout in paris, we had two british air commercial airliners leaving the united states, one from dulles, one from l.a.x. both had to land at alternative airports because of threats. one of them the largest passenger plane there is, the airbus a-380. and then this morning we wake up. explain this still picture. where it came from and what it purports to show. >> everybody on board the two air france flight that is landed
in salt lake city and halifax okay. and then deemed to be no threat and then a photograph and this is clearly isis propaganda. we'll say that up front. this comes from isis online magazine and they say the bomb that brought down the metro jetliner. a soda can on the left. in the middle, appears to be a detonator and the right appears to be a switch. what is unclear according to the exports i have talked to is where the timing device is and several things are interesting. look in the middle of the can, it would appear that there seems to be a cut mark there. that it was cut in half and went perhaps put back together. the question is whether inside that can there might have been plastic explosives. in other words, petn or c4 or rdx. as the detonator goes, lock in the middle of it. it has yellow cord. to the experts, it's a commercial grade detonator. not military grade detonator.
but they say it certainly looks like a real detonator and then to the right, that switch and what may be and we emphasize may be a 9-volt battery there. putting it into a can and pack it with the right kind of explosives, according to the experts i have talked to, one of them being jim cavanaugh, former atf special agent in charge, that could have been enough to bring down metro jet. just that amount of plastic explosives packed in to a soda can. so the question then becomes, how did the can get on board the plane? was it carried on board? by a passenger? was it smuggled on board in a suitcase or was it, most frightening theory, put on the drink cart on board the plane and then it detonated on the drink cart or in the drink containers if you will on board the plane. isis claims this is how they brought down the plane. clearly, i can tell you that's
got a lot of people in the security industry now locking yet again at the potential threat. we have seen this before. this was the alleged plot to bring down the planes over the atlantic with the liquid bombers. you may recall a number of years ago, using liquid explosives. tsa, atf, homeland security concerned about the possibility of an explosive on a u.s. jetliner and the kind of explosive they're talking about. now, when i talk to john pistol, the former tsa chief a short time ago, he said we believe if you try to carry it on it probably would have been detected he says by tsa agents in america. if it were a checked back, he says it is likely that the explosive detection equipment underneath the airport or inside the airport if you will once you check your bags that they should have or would have tripped he believes a u.s. detection piece of equipment. there's some speculation, the
egyptians turned theirs off and we don't know. but the last part of this equation is very concerning. that is, a trusted insider who might have been able to place that on to the plane. and that keeps american security experts up at night, as well. the possibility that somebody in the states with access to a plane and then suddenly turned by isis, radicalized and try to do something like that. that picture is very concerning to everybody. brian? >> let's hope he's right detecting it in the cargo hold on a checked bag and let's hope it was not brought in by catering and not on to something new. this is why the ziploc bags, the banned liquids in the country and why it continues. tom costello covering aviation for us in the d.c. newsroom. another break. i am totally blind.
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we are back, brian williams here with you at msnbc headquarters in new york. and we want to thank former congresswoman jane harmon being so patient with us. she is a long-time former member of congress from california. veteran of homeland security, intelligence, armed services. these days runs the woodrow wilson school at princeton for scholars. congresswoman, how do you think all of what we're watching will change life in america? how do you think it should change life in america? >> first of all, nice to see you back, brian. welcome back. how will it change us? we've changed a lot since 9/11. and we've made some mistakes and i think we are learning from them. message one, america is far
better protected than you may think. message two, kudos to the french people for going back to the cafes last night and trying their best to live a normal life. message three, kudos to paris aided by the fbi and other resources doing a really good job of rounding up people and collecting their pocket litter, the cell phones and other information, which are going to lead them to yet more, unfortunately, terrorists and criminal element that's supporting the terrorists all over america. >> i guess as you learned in part during your time in congress this takes equal parts brains and courage and it is really helpful to have both. >> yes. and it takes brains and courage by the public, too. i think one of the reasons we're stronger here is this -- is that people trust in not everywhere but many places that law enforcement's trying to keep them safe from these things and
they turn over information and the muslim community in the united states which is a valuablible part of communication and this is how you find out about a kid susceptible to this barrage of recruitment material sent over social media by isil and other groups. >> congresswoman, you're a californian with now one foot in princeton, new jersey, covering a lot of ground. you realize that this refugee argument is tougher and tougher for the president to make, for governors who believe in it. where do you come down on it? >> well, first, i'm not at princeton, brian. there's a wilson school at princeton. i'm at the center in washington which is the living memorial to wilson and was headed by lee hamilton, a very highly respected -- >> forgive me. i got my princeton and washington mixed up. >> that's all right. i'm a princeton mom and lee is
getting the medal of freedom next week and we salute him. i think it's boneheaded to tell muslims in the world that we don't want you here because we're afraid that if you are a highly educated, responsible person growing up in syria and go through the bells an whistles to come to the united states we don't trust you. it's the wrong message. we have at least a yearlong clearance process to let people -- to grant people asylum in the united states. i understand from experts here that there have been almost 700,000 refugees entering into the united states since 9/11. three of them after they entered were suspected of funneling money to terror groups and deported. there have been no terrorists emerging from this large mass of people. and i think we should follow the regular process, perhaps imposing a few more steps to clear for everyone coming from this region. not just for muslims.
>> former congresswoman, we learn the wilson center in washington, don't try her at princeton unless it's parent's weekend. >> i love princeton. thank you, brian. >> sharing your opinions with us. another break for us. and when we come back, we're going to go to paris and thomas roberts who will share with us his exclusive interview with the u.s. ambassador to france. believe it. at&t and directv are now one. which means you can watch in the house, in a treehouse, or even in miss pepperpie's house. pause in your pjs and hit play during a pb&j. nice! and enjoy some cartoons instead of listening to dad's car tunes. (dad) ♪meet you all the way! get directv at home and 2 wireless lines for under $99 a month. from directv and at&t.
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a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? hi, everybody. good evening from paris where it is almost -- to what so many people didn't understand about the overnight raids that happened. as you can see, though, there are still many people who have come out here to the continuing and growing shrine here bringing flowers and candles. in the wake of friday's attacks
there's new urgency for diplo t diplomatic talks on syria. at the center of the work is u.s. ambassador to france jane hartley. ambassador hartley has been in france since last fall and marched with the french after the "charlie hebdo" massacre and welcomed the american heroes stopping the train attack this summer and this week she's been the face of the u.s. in public mourning and in private talks. i spoke with the ambassador today in an exclusive interview about how to stop isis and keep europe and america safe. >> paris, as anybody knows who's been here, it is about restaurants, it is about museums. it is about music. so ordinary people just spending their day, their weeks working hard and wanting to spend a friday night with family and friends going to a concert or going to a restaurant. >> meanwhile, this is not over. the investigation remains active. and very fluid. we saw today's massive raid unfold in saint-denis.
authorities targeting the so-called master mind of the attacks. after secretary kerry's visit here, can you describe what role u.s. intelligence is playing in helping the french? >> well, we're working very closely with the french. frankly, we have been working very closely with the french over the last many months, both militarily and on an intelligence front. but since this, i know and secretary kerry reinforced this yesterday in the meeting with president hollande and minister fabius, we are there for the french and anything we can do, having lived through this ourself, we are there to help them. >> wasn't that long ago that the french people, though, lived through "charlie hebdo" at the beginning of the year and knowing what happened on the train, now we have 80% of french people in a new poll saying they support certain restrictions on civil liberties, okay with tighter surveillance within france. and right now hollande has that state of emergency power.
based on what you know about the french people and whether or not you think they feel vulnerable, is it a natural reaction for them to want to have that tighter security and is there a potential compromise that they're willing to give up for civil liabilities for stricter surveillance and security? >> i think so. you know, i'm a new yorker. i was in new york after 9/11. and i think it was something we had to grapple with. i think the federal government had to grapple with it. new york had to grapple with it. and it's always a balance between security and privacy. but i think right now the french public as the american public did. they're demanding security. >> we know that russia and the u.s. have different strategies when it comes to isis, the best future for syria. how fluid is policy for an allied, common strategy against isis? >> well, i think if we look at what's happened over the last week, and this was discussed in
the meetings yesterday with secretary kerry, first, a russian plane that was downed and attack in but rate, now this attack in paris. i think what we are all coming the conclusion is terrorists don't know any borders. this is not about france. this is not about one country. all of us have to work together to defeat this terrible threat of terrorism. >> when it comes to saying that and working together, do you think that russia is a viable partner for the u.s. given that putin would prefer to keep syrian president bashar al assad in power? >> i think the priority and our president has said this time and time again, the priority is defeating isil. and after what we have seen over the last couple of weeks, i think that priority is even more important. if russia is willing to fight isil, i think we would welcome it. >> so in doing that and defeating isis, the white house said it cannot be destroyed with boots on the ground alone, only a diplomatic solution in syria
will finally defeat them but given the strength of isis right now, how does diplomacy work? >> well, i think we have said from the very beginning that we have to have a political solution in syria. and my guess is other countries have been involved and including russia coming that very same conclusion. we have to have a stable government in syria where people can live in a regime that they respect. and i don't think that includes having a president, president assad. >> and my thanks to ambassador hartley for inviting us and allows us to ask her a lot of pressing questions. it was very interesting having this conversation with her today, especially since secretary kerry had just left and there are many questions about what the policy of the u.s. is going to be, especially since president hollande travels to the united states on november 24th to meet with president obama and then two days after
that on to moscow to see president putin. >> yeah. a lot of eyes on that, that visit by the french president. some people were frankly sur surprised that this close to the domestic crisis dealing with but also is a very high visibility trip that makes sense in terms of allies. once and future allies. thomas roberts, thank you for sharing that interview with us from paris. our coverage will take another break. we'll be right back. excellent looking below the surface, researching a hunch... and making a decision you are type e*. time for a change of menu. research and invest from any website. with e*trade's browser trading. e*trade.
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get on the air and the answer was put it this way, he listened to the entire press conference. so, that's a long time. thank you for your patience. and i'm actually thrilled to hear what you listened to the entire press conference. talk about the practices and methods and courage of the french forces that you've heard about so far. >> yeah. the courage here, brian, is incredible because the forces as well as the public are entering into a new territory. they're trying to find and thwart any other attacks, any other cells and this is really complicated. and they're going into this basically blind. they're going into it with limited intelligence. the best that they have. but it's still a very dynamic situation and challenging. >> by how much is the populous a force multiplier?
>> it's huge here. because the french are trying to find supporters within the country that are blending in. this is spilled over obviously to other borders and belgium and we're now seeing this also play out in turkey and in some aspects. so the public here is a huge force multiplier and is going to be able to help the police, the authorities, security and intelligence services really get to the bottom and really stop anything that's coming immediately and anything that's -- that may be coming down the road. >> chiefly, for an american audience looking at an attack like last night, at a situation in the suburb of saint-denis, this comes down to a scene out of a bradley cooper movie, out of a daniel craig movie. this comes down to humans in law enforcement and the military,
you know, taking aim at a window, professional snipers. probably military trained. and this comes down to people putting their lives on the line to find, capture or kill these terrorists. >> absolutely. and that courage that they're showing is exhibited every day in law enforcement, every day in intelligence and security forces. not only the french, obviously, the americans. and so that courage is something that i think the public and the french are really behind their forces. they're showing courage. the security forces are showing courage. and so, they both feed on each other. when the public is strong, when the public stands up, that gives morale and boost to security and the police. >> final question. if you're in the united states, in this business, what do -- what do you change to make sure
this isn't here, doesn't get here, doesn't get the idea to come here? >> you know, brian, this is a great question because it gets to the heart of the matter which is that person to person. we really need to have this conversation, we need to talk about it. we need to educate ourselves and i think we really need to put down our cell phones. i'm guilty of it. i'm sure you're guilty of it. we really need to stop, to look around and to talk to each other and to engage personally. >> josh, thank you very much. joshua cats, former cia officer for being very patient with us joining us today from washington. we appreciate it. and with that, we'll toss it back to thomas roberts in paris. >> brian, thank you very much. and we have been covering a lot of different angles here on the ground. one of the more unique is the cover of "charlie hebdo" that hit yesterday.
so many people are familiar with that this year because of the attacks they suffered here in paris in january. the target of isis. and they lost 14 people at that magazine. chris hayes is here. he's been taking a look at this angle. chris, i think for a lot of people seeing that cover, it was shocking, provocative. but for those that are familiar with "charlie hebdo," it would be hypocritical of them not to do something. >> perfectly in line. i mean, the cover is, you know, a frenchman sipping champagne with champagne pouring out of bullet holes saying they have guns but screw it we have champagne. i got an opportunity to a write we are "charlie hebdo" and she's a very outspoken writer and critic, very intense opponent of islamic extremism and intense opponent of the far right and i asked her a little bit about
what she saw now for france at this political crossroads in the wake of "charlie hebdo" and the attacks on paris. >> we have to do something. we cannot -- we cannot just say don't fear. it's okay. it will go away. no, it won't go away. we know that we have probably ten of attacks in front of us if we don't do something about isis in syria. but more than that. it is not only warment it's too simple if it was a war. it is even more than a war. it is a fight against a totalitarian movement with recruiting among us. >> it's striking to me what she said there because i think there's a real disconnect between how these attacks processed politically in the u.s. and politically processed here. in the u.s. we have seen 90% of the focus on refugees and become an issue of refugees. we are fairly clear that all of
the people carrying this out were eu nationals, not refugees. here the question is what does this mean? these attacks appear to be carried out by belgiums and french men. french born. belgian born. what do we do to make sure it doesn't happen again when folks that are fellow citizens feel like they are called to do something like this? very different conversation and creates very different avenues of political discussion. >> you make a great point about the perpetrators, attackers involved with this opposed to migration refugee hot potato kicked around not only by eu leadership and american politicians and all those majority governor that is don't want to see syria refugees come in. back to brian at 30 rock. >> thank you. and we will go to a break and our live coverage will continue on the other side.
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we are back. so far all reports from paris of an uneventful early evening as opposed to late last night into this morning. the raid on the house in the suburb of saint-denis. we have been briefed on what that outcome was. of course, all the while with isis very squarely in the foreground, in the background, the u.s. campaign for president continues. kasie hunt is on the trail with former florida governor jeb bush who has been asked about isis and has responded in addition to the refugee issue that continues to follow all of these candidates. kasie? >> reporter: brian, we had a striking thing today here in south carolina. another bush calling for ground
troops in the middle east. jeb bush making a major speech today on national security. take a listen to what he had to say about how he would fight isis. >> the united states should not delay in leading a global coalition to take out isis with overwhelming force. while air power is essential, it cannot bring the results we seek. the united states in conjunction with our nato allies and more arab partners need to increase our presence on the ground. >> reporter: really, an interesting turn for a candidate who has struggled to separate himself from george w. bush, his brother, from his family. suddenly being, finding himself in a position to be calling for something that his brother, obviously, struggled to deal with throughout his presidency. many of the other republicans in
this field pushing jeb bush, putting him in a position where if he didn't take a step of calling for ground troops to risk looking weak and that, of course, damaged him against donald trump and many of these other candidates, brian. >> well, he owns this now, and what are his aides saying about how long this was in the formulation and the decision to in effect go all in? >> reporter: well, brian, he had talked to our own chuck todd about this on "meet the press" over the weekend but once he saw what happened in paris, his aides say past couple of days, over the weekend, he thought through this and wanted to take a more aggressive posture and i pushed them about the troops he means here, does he just mean more special operators, conventional ground troops? his aides say if generals are interested in putting conventional ground troops in the middle east then that's what
jeb bush would back doing, brian. >> kasie hunt traveling with former governor jeb bush on the campaign trail, of course, very few americans would object to any effort to rid the world of what has become the face of hatred in the world and that is isis or isil. this group that's still being pursued in paris as we speak. steve kornacki has been covering the other angle. we just heard chris hayes talk about how this argument over isis has been not quite hijacked but translated into this discussion on how many refugees should be allowed if they should be allowed at all to resettle in the united states. so many of them from syria. steve? >> yeah. it's interesting. i mean, domestically, that's become the sort of concerted attack you have heard from republicans on the obama administration, really so far has focused on the issue of refugees.
most republican governors coming out saying they would not want or take the refugees in their state a. democratic governor of new hampshire has come out and said the same thing. not coincidentally, she is also running for the united states senate in new hampshire. next year. but the interesting wrinkle on that issue in the last 24 hours is not totally a republican-democrat issue anymore. you had chuck schumer, soon to be the top democrat in the u.s. senate coming out saying maybe a pause on the syrian resettlement program is due. you had joe manchin of west virginia signing a let we are a group of republicans indicating that he, too, thinks there should be a pause on this. so there might be some democrats on the verge of breaking with the white house over this, as well. >> and, steve, the governors if i understand it correctly have no say but, of course, congress does. >> that's right. so you have movement right now in the u.s. house, the republican-led u.s. house, they
want to pass something before the thanksgiving vacation and due to leave on that tomorrow. the goal to pass a bill on this tomorrow to deal with the refugee situation. what is taking shape, it is not official yet but what seems to be taking shape is a bill to significantly tighten, tighten the procedures in place in terms of background checks for the refugees, bringing the fbi into it, bringing the department of homeland security into it. that looks like something the republican house is going to pass and actually some democrats saying privately they're a little relieved that that's where the republicans in the house are going because they thought republicans might seek an outright ban on this. >> steve kornacki, thanks. the administration said these will be among the most vetted people to ever enter this country. to that a lot of people have said, many of these people have no evident paper trail and that makes it a bit impossible. steve, we appreciate it. we'll take a break in our coverage and be back after this.
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back here in new york. breaking news trampled won the planned broadcast thomas roberts was ready to deliver from paris today. thomas, with thanks for your interview with the ambassador to france from the united states, how do you think paris feels different going in to this evening with last evening's raid and this morning's headlines in mind? >> brian, i think it is a combination of nerves and anger. you know, over the last couple of nights, that we have been talking, it's been raining and damp here and we have seen still droves of people coming out to bring flowers, to light candles, coming the shrines around paris where the attacks happened and where they didn't. but as we're seeing tonight it remains just as crowded as it has every other night but we are in a different new normal here now in paris as it remains in a state of emergency and a combination of 414 raids have
happened since friday and 64 people have been arrested. and the biggest news is from saint-denis where we know that they have taken seven people into custody. seven men into custody and one woman into custody. more details to come from that raid. back to you. >> thomas roberts, i was going to ask when the expression new normal and the french form would enter the lexicon. it sounds like it already has. thomas, thank you for your reporting from there. another break for us. our coverage continues at the top of the hour. this is more than just a town. this is our home. and small business saturday...
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i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a fun side to every drive. nissan. innovation that excites. we are back. it's been an eventful day thus far concerning the news on the terrorism front from france. thanks to the briefing. we have learned that, quote, a new team of terrorists was ready to act again. they had what is being called an arsenal of war weapons with them. but evidence is being collected now. the citizenry is helping. cell phone