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tv   MSNBC Live With Tamron Hall  MSNBC  November 19, 2015 8:00am-9:01am PST

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now, the third element of our strategy has to be hardening our defenses at home and helping our partners do the same against both external and homegrown threats. >> you're watching hillary clinton at the council on foreign relations here in midtown manhattan laying out her case for the defense against isis and its ultimate defeat. following her remarks, we will continue our coverage from new york and paris. >> today european nations don't even always alert each other when they turn away a suspected jihadist at the border. or when a passport is stolen. it seems like after most terrorist attacks, we find out that the perpetrators were known to some security service or another. but too often the dots never get connected. i appreciate how hard this is, especially given the sheer number of suspects and threats.
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but this has to change. the united states must work with europe to dramatically and immediately improve intelligence sharing and counterterrorism coordination. european countries also should have the flexibility to enhance their border controls when circumstances warrant. and here at home, we face a number of our own challenges. the threat to airline security is evolving as terrorists develop new devices like nonmetallic bombs. so our defenses have to stay at least one step ahead. we foe that intelligence gathered and shared by local law enforcement officers is absolutely critical to breaking up plots and preventing attacks. so they need all the resources and support we can give them. law enforcement also needs the trust of residents and communities including in our own country, muslim-americans. now, this should go without
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saying. but in the current climate, it bears repeating. muslim-americans are working every day on the front lines of the fight against radicalization. another challenge is how to strike the right balance of protecting privacy and security. encryption of mobile communications presents a particularly tough problem. we should take the concerns of law enforcement and counterterrorism professionals seriously. they have warned that impenetrable encryption may prevent them from accessing terrorist communications and preventing a future attack. on the other hand, we know there are legitimate concerns about government intrusion, network security, and creating new vulnerabilities that bad actors can and would exploit. so we need silicon valley not to view government as its adversary. we need to challenge our best
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minds in the private sector to work with our best minds in the public sector to develop solutions that will both keep us safe and protect our privacy. now is the time to solve this problem, not after the next attack. since paris, no homeland security challenge is being more hotly debated than how to handle syrian refugees seeking safety in the united states. our highest priority, of course, must always be protecting the american people. so yes, we do need to be vigilant in screening and vetting any refugees from syria, guided by the best judgment of our security professionals in close coordination with our allies and partners. and congress needs to make sure the necessary resources are provided for comprehensive background checks, drawing on the best intelligence we can get. and we should be taking a close look at the safeguards and the
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visa programs as well. but we cannot allow terrorists to intimidate us into abandoning our values and our humanitarian obligations. turning away orphans, applying a religious test, discriminating against muslims, slamming the door on every syrian refugee, that is just not who we are. we are better than that. and remember, many of these refugees are fleeing the same terrorists who threaten us. it would be a cruel irony indeed if isis can force families from their homes and then also prevent them from ever finding new ones. we should be doing more to ease this humanitarian crisis, not less. we should lead the international community in organizing a donor conference and supporting countries like jordan who are sheltering the majority of refugees fleeing syria. and we can get this right.
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america's open, free, tolerance society is described by some as a vulnerability in the struggle against terrorism, but i actually believe it's one of our strengths. it reduces the appeal of radicalism and enhances the richness and resilience of our communities. this is not a time for scoring political points. when new york was attacked on 9/11, we had a republican president, a republican governor, and a republican mayor. and i worked with all of them. we pulled together and put partisanship aside to rebuild our city and protect our country. this is a time for american leadership. no other country can rally the world to defeat isis and win the generational struggle against radical jihadism. only the united states can mobilize common action on a
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global scale, and that's exactly what we need. the entire world must be part of this fight, but we must lead it. there's been a lot of talk lately about coalitions. everyone seems to want one. but there's not nearly as much talk about what it actually takes to make a coalition work. in the heat and pressure of an international crisis. i know how hard this is because we've done it before. to impose the toughest sanctions in history on iran, to stop a dictator from slaughtering his people in libya, to support a fledgling democracy in afghanistan. we have to use every pillar of american power. military and diplomacy. development and economic and cultural influence. technology and maybe, most importantly, our values. that is smart power. we have to work with institutions and partners like nato, the eu the arab league and the u.n. strengthen our alliances and
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never get tired of old-fashioned shoe-leather diplomacy. and if necessary, be prepared to act decisively on our own. just as we did to bring osama bin laden to justice. the united states and our allies must demonstrate that free people and free markets are still the hope of humanity. this past week as i watched the tragic scenes from france, i kept thinking back to a young man the world met in january after the last attack in paris. his name was lessana, a muslim immigrant from mali who worked at a kosher market. he said the market had become a few home, and his colleagues and customers a second family. when the terrorists arrived and the gunfire began, lesana risked his life to protect his jewish
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customers. he moved quickly, hiding as many people as he could in the cold storage room and then slipping out to help the police. i didn't know or care, he said, if they were jews or christians or muslims. we're all in the same boat. what a rebuke of the extremist hatred. the french government announced it would grant lesana full citizensh citizenship. but when it mattered most, he proved he was a citizen already. that's the power of free people. that's what the jihadis will never understand and never defeat. and as we meet here today, let us resolve that we will go forward together, and we will do all we can to lead the world against this threat that threatens people everywhere. thank you all.
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[ applause ] >> as we have tried to do with other candidates from time to time, there's another candidate for the presidency, hillary clinton, at the council on foreign relations here in midtown manhattan with kind of a withering list of suggestions, her view of what should be done to cooperate, to unite against terrorism, watching and listening along with us is our chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell getting set to go on air herself here. andrea, your take on what we just witnessed. >> well, this is comprehensive. this is hillary clinton, the expert on foreign policy. but a couple of quick points. she proposed doing more special operations, forward based in syria, than the 50 that the president has proposed. she said that we should be prepared to do more. that's putting more americans in harm's way. it is what a lot of military people are telling me, a lot of people are telling the white house. the president has not signed off on this yet.
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she's also proposed getting baghdad to arm the sunni and the kurdish forces in iraq to finally have an inclusive government. well, if i could preview what some critics might then say, well, madam secretary, why didn't you succeed in doing that when you were in office? because she only went to iraq once while she was second tar of state. it was joe biden who had the account to try to get baghdad -- the shiite government in baghdad to embrace more of the sunni and kurdish constituencies, and that is partly why iraq fell apart after the americans withdrew. so there is going to be a lot of pushback on this very rational, very kprens everybody strcompret hillary clinton has proposed. she's held firm to her principles on this. not bowing to the polling, not bowing to the pressure, not bowing to donald trump. she has said that we can do more on our borders, but at the same time, we should not be shutting our doors to orphans.
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we should not be shutting our doors to syrian refugees who are predominantly all but 2% are women and children. she's saying that we should prove that we can live up to our principles. and in this regard, she is really holding firm to a general election strategy if not a primary election strategy, if not a general election strategy because this is something that the republicans are really making hay on, and frankly, they're going to pass this house measure today where a lot of democratic support. we're seeing democratic candidates including the governor in new hampshire who has endorsed hillary clinton running for the senate. she's considered one of the best senate candidates against the incumbent, kelly ayotte, and she has signed on to this tough refugee measure that is up before the house today. >> i have to say, though, andrea, about midway through this list, calling on countries to stop their citizens from making contributions to terrorist organizations, calling
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on people related to the internet to not give up web space to organizations like this. would that the world work so thoroughly and methodically step by step, measure to measure going through things like this. but that's not the case. >> well, in fact, the clinton state department has been blamed along with the george w. bush state department and the current state department for not being able to counteract the propaganda of isis. i mean, these terror groups have been so much more efficient and proactive and create everybody than any u.s. government agency to get around the internet barriers and to find this end-to-end encryption and telegram was shot down yesterday, but other sites were available. they have just outsmarted us at every turn. and just this latest propaganda video of times square, it's scary, and it's playing into the anti-refugee propaganda
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domestically as well, the political propaganda, but it works. and they use us as well, all of us. i say collectively, the mass media that perpetuates this stuff. so whether or not there's a real threat and we can't rule it out because the intelligence agencies have proved that they have not been able to figure out how to break the code on these communications, they've missed a lot of things. the u.s. did have some of these people on watch lists, but, again, the french and the belgians missed opportunities to grab them before the paris attack. look, it's not a perfect science. and hillary clinton as well as anybody else who held office in the national security field, democratic or as well as republican over the last decade or more since 9/11, has to answer for a lot of the things that have gone wrong as well as the things that have gone right. >> andrea mitchell who will have more analysis along these lines on her broadcast coming up at the top of the hour. andrea, thanks. >> you bet. >> let's go back over to paris. after all, that's why we're on
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the air here with special coverage. the attacks there. and chiefly, chris jansing, the big headline overnight, the word that the mastermind was indeed among the dead in the raid on that northern suburb two nights ago now. >> reporter: yeah, the ringleader is gone, but i think andrea points out that the fear is not. and they're looking both backwards and forwards. still a lot of questions here about how did abaaoud elude police for such a very long time? all those missed opportunities. not just of him but of his co-conspirators in the attacks that devastated paris here on friday night. and looking forward, what's next? well, we've already heard from french officials today that they're worried about the possibility of possible chemical or biological weapons being used, threats against rome, threats against milan, a travel advisory being issued by the state department for americans
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who are traveling there, in addition to that video that andrea mentioned in new york. as we heard today, fear may well be right now isis' greatest weapon. and we're learning a lot more, brian, about how that raid went down. it's really extraordinary. so they figure out that he's likely or that cell is likely in the apartment. they try to blow the door off. element of surprise. it doesn't work. so what do they do next? they also have six snipers who are positioned outside of the apartment very nearby in this neighborhood. one of them shoots abaaoud, abdelhamid abaaoud. but the firing continues. there is a woman next to him. we now know she is the one who was wearing that suicide belt. she starts firing back with a kalashnikov. that sets off half hour to 45 minutes of a barrage of fire, hundreds of bullets fired back and forth before the explosion that basically collapsed the
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floor, blew the windows out, and they eventually found abaaoud's body beneath it. and it was dna testing and apparently some fingerprinting that also allowed them to determine finally a day afterwards that it was him. so brian, still even though he's been killed and he is out of the picture, a major recruiter is out of the picture, the questions remain about the threats out there, the bombmaker who was in the middle of all this, and all these new videos coming out from isis who seem not to be fazed by any of it. >> and chris, in the middle of this pitched battle, hundreds of rounds being exchanged from large automatic weapons, propelled grenades. there is this exchange. we're going to play this audio between a female french police officer and the female terrorist now deceased who ended up
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blowing herself up with a suicide vest. listen to this. [ gunfire ] we presume they are talking about abaaoud. turns out to have been her cousin. but chris, it's amazing that this audio exists. police officers saying "where had your boyfriend?" the answer, "he's not my boyfriend." >> reporter: yeah. and when they say "where is he?" she answers, "i is not my boyfriend" and then the explosion happens. this, by the way, obtained by french television from a neighbor. but you just get a sense, as more and more of this is coming out and we talked earlier, brian, about the first video from inside one of those venues on friday night, the absolute brutality of this. and, you know, over the years, when you talk to officials about
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the threat that terrorist groups have posed, the difference, it seems, with isis is they've never seen this blatant wantonous, this level of close-up violence and this determination to wreak havoc in such sort of a personal way. there's something very different about setting a bomb and going into a room guns blazing or firing back with a kalashnikov against what clearly is more than 100 police. you're so far outnumbered, and just seemingly what seems so strange that she was trying so hard to say "he's not my boyfriend." all of it a chilling picture of what we saw here last night in those more than seven hours of this standoff, brian. >> chris jansing, thanks. and, of course, it was theorized, it was rumored that among the dead was the mastermind. and then finally use fingerprint
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evidence, police were able to make the tie, make the positive identification. and it was just this morning we learned it was abaaoud who indeed was killed in that raid. last night, we must say, that around the turn hour here in new york, isis and the release of a video got the news media attention they wanted. it's a video taunting new york, threatening new york, perhaps aspirational, perhaps trying to recruit people. stephanie gosk is in times square in new york. stephanie, i've been able to watch your camera location prior to us getting to you, and it looks like kind of given the wind and rain today, still a normal day in times square. >> reporter: it is a normal day. you see, as you always do in times square, plenty of tourists, plenty of people going
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back and forth to work. and, of course plenty of nypd presence. we saw this morning bomb-sniffing dogs, bomb squad vehicles, just regular patrol cars. but brian, they're always here. that's not a result of this video. and you had that rare press conference given late last night by the mayor and the police commissioner to kind of allay any fears that might be out there. the point being that this video is propaganda. the mayor said this city will not be easily intimidated. and this morning the nypd deputy commissioner, john miller, was on the "today" show, and this is what he had to say about it. >> one thing that isis understands almost better than terrorism is marketing. what you saw last night was a commercial. it's meant to sell a product. the product is fear. could it happen here? of course it could because that's because it could happen anywhere. are we better prepared here than most, if not all, other places? the answer to that is yes.
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>> reporter: you know, i would say, brian, personally that for people in this city, the images coming out of paris would certainly alarm people much more than this video itself. that hastily put together, which is the way the police commissioner described it and those images of new york city are actually recycled from old isis propaganda. but still, you know, there was an event planned where i'm standing right now, an organization that wanted to shine a light on homelessness today, and we were told by organizers that they canceled it because of this video. brian? >> yeah, and i guess, stephanie, people last night were saying they got -- they gave isis credit for putting what we call a fresh top on it. timely pictures out of paris. the aftermath of the bombing, images of french president hollande. and it was enough to make the mayor and police commissioner appear last night, 11:00, timed for the local newscasts in new
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york to show, in a brightly lit time square, the police commissioner even said to citizens, the nypd will protect you. we have your back. >> reporter: yeah, an acknowledgment there that it can have an impact and a concern that people might become growingly alarmed. but also an acknowledgment that isis apparently is trying to capitalize on what they may see as momentum following these attacks, churning out more propaganda, an appeal for suicide bombers in places like new york city. and what's interesting about this as well is that isis, in the past, has summoned recruits to syria to join the fight in syria. this is different. this is stay where you are. join us and become a suicide bomber. brian? >> stephanie gosk in times square. stephanie, thank you very much. we'll fit in another short break here. our coverage continues right after this.
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brian williams here with you. here here in new york where helping us with our coverage this hour, tamron hall. tamron? >> brian, we're following another development this morning that certainly brings the issue of the syrian refugees in the heart of the gop debate, the presidential race. the department of homeland security is confirming for you that two syrian families crossed over the u.s. -- into the u.s. from mexico earlier this week, possibly seeking political asylum. now, this new development is getting a lot of attention as the debate, as you well know, over syrian refugees heats up in the wake of the paris attacks. presidential candidate donald trump weighing in via twitter saying eight syrians were just caught on the southern border trying to get into the u.s. isis, maybe? i told you so. we need a big and beautiful wall. our mark potter has been following these developments. take us through what we know at this point about these individuals and how they were able to cross in. >> well, hi, tamron.
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the point made by u.s. immigration officials is that these eight syrians were not trying to sneak into the united states. in fact, they are family members. they had come through mexico, and they simply, when they got to an official border crossing point, walked up to customs agents and presented themselves. in a statement earlier today, the department of homeland security said, quote, two men, two women and four children presented themselves at a port of entry in laredo. they were taken into custody by cbp, that's u.s. customs and border protection, and turned over to i.c.e., immigration and customs enforcement, for further processing. this happened on tuesday. we're also told that the two women and four children were taken to a family holding facility after initial processing in laredo in dilly, texas. the two men were taken to piersol, texas, a facility there, and they will now go
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through standard immigration review processes. there is also another incident occurring in central america in honduras to talk about. today five syrian men were in court in the capital city, accused there of using phony greek passports to enter that country after crossing through several other countries to get there. honduran officials say they believe their ultimate goal was to go through -- next through guatemala and mexico to enter the u.s., to present themselves in texas, presumably. right now honduran officials say they see no link between those men and terrorism, and certainly not the paris attacks. they believe they're students, but they are being very carefully vetted by interpol and other agencies now, tamron. >> mark, thank you. we also have more breaking news. hillary clinton just unvaeiled her strategy for defeating isis. clinton calling for a stepped-up
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coalition for air campaign and intelligence surge in the region and local and regional ground forces, taking back more territory from isis. >> our goal is not to deter or contain isis but to defeat and destroy isis. this is a worldwide fight, and america must lead it. our strategy should have three main elements. one, defeat isis in syria, iraq and across the middle east. two, disrupt and dismantle the growing terrorist infrastructure that facilitates the flow of fighters, financing, arms and propaganda around the world. three, harden our defenses and those of our allies against external and homegrown threats. >> also this afternoon, the house will vote on legislation that would make it more difficult for syrian and iraqi refugees to come into the united states. president obama has already promised to veto that legislation.
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and joining me now to talk more about it, democratic senator bob casey of pennsylvania. for, thank you so much for joining us. i know that you attended a closed-door briefing for senators last night by homeland security secretary johnson and fbi director james comey. was the refugee crisis a main focus, and where do you stand on this issue, sir is this? >> well, first, tamron, the briefing we had was class feyed, so i can't talk about the content of it. but it covered a range of subjects, the refugee issue as well as the strategy against isis. my question, when it was my turn, was about the cutting off isis financing, which i think is a major -- has to be a major strategic objective. and we can talk more about that. on the refugee issue, i think we've got to approach this issue with a fact-based approach. number one is we have a very rigorous vetting system already. if professionals, not politicians, i'm not really -- i don't have enough time to listen to politicians on this -- if professionals, intel
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professionals, homeland security professionals, law enforcement professionals, tell me that we have a defect in the current vetting system, i will be the first one to support remedies to that. but the idea that we're just going to shut this system down -- by the way, that has already admitted, over the last couple of years by white house estimates, 2,174 syrian refugees, to shut that down and to say to children and their moms, you can't come in because some candidate says that it's a good idea that's not the way to go, we've got to be fact based and do the kind of review that serious adults do, not just people expressing political opinions. >> but senator, we know, though, it's not just the gop candidates. you have, for example, in the house some democrats who will support this legislation. the president has already vowed to veto. you have a democratic governor who supports hillary clinton in
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new hampshire who is running for senate also supporting at least a moratorium on allowing syrian refugees. so it is not -- i mean, the simple headline would be that most of the people who have had outcry are republicans, but nevertheless, we foe that some of your colleagues and potentially one in the senate is supporting this idea. >> well, we'll see. and i haven't seen the legislation. i'll most certainly look at it. my point is we need tovy affect-based review. not a review based upon what what some out there would say. and again, i'm not going to spend a lot of time talking to politicians on this. i'm going to talk to the professionals. homeland security professionals, intel professionals, law enforcement professionals. and the system we have now, tamron, as you know, takes 18 to 24 months right now. >> right. >> so children and women coming through that system, 18 to 24 months. there's a department of homeland security review, an intel review, custom and border patrol. this is a rigorous system already.
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but if there is a recommendation from professionals, not politicians, about how to better administer this system and make changes, i'm certainly supportive of that. >> in the essence of time, i do want to get to some of the he headlines from hillary clinton's speech on how to defeat isis. my colleague, andrea mitchell, noting one of the things that secretary clinton wants to look at is adding more special ops in syria. that would be a number increased from the 50 the president has allotted to we don't know. nevertheless, that's more of a presence and more of a risk at this time. you're also looking at a push for a coalition, a more dedicated series of airstrikes from france and from other leaders at this point. you have a number of people who are wondering why now. we've heard for weeks, months and days about a series of airstrikes that seem to be ineffective at this point. >> well, i haven't seen the speech. i was able to hear some of it in the lead-up to the interview. one thing i know that secretary
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clinton said, which i support strongly, is a much greater effort of pressuring and pushing very hard our gulf allies to track down financiers and those that support terrorism. they should be prosecuted or frankly killed. but i certainly support her efforts to put more pressure on those that are financing and supporting terrorism. but i have to review the whole speech. but i'm glad that she spoke to it, and i think she's got a lot of good ideas. >> we certainly hope to have you back on and have more reaction to a number of these ideas that have been floated around regarding how to defeat isis in this latest crisis. thank you for your time. >> thanks, tamron. >> back to brian. he has more new details on a gnaw raid apparently happening right now in france, brian. [ no audio ] obviously we're having some technical problem there. let's go straight to chris
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jansing. she is live from paris with these new details. chris, what can you tell us? >> reporter: well, tamron, you're right. this is something that is still under way. but we have gotten confirmation from a police spokesperson in a town northeast of here called charleville, about three hours northeast, halfway between here and brussels. and what we know is that it fairs came to folks' attention because they heard an explosion. what that spokesman told us was that explosives were indeed put on a door. we don't know if it's a residence or apartment. but an explosion blew open the door. for you, what we do know is that earlier today, in belgium, there were nine different raids, nine people detained, all across belgium, although several of them were in brussels, and all of them related to paris in homes in brussels. we don't know for sure that this -- what the direct relationship might be with this paris investigation.
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having said that, the spokesman did confirm that it was done under the state of emergency which gives police broad powers including the ability to search a person's home or apartment or business without any type of warrant. so that raid ongoing in charleville-mezieres north of here and near the belgian border. tamron? >> chris, thank you very much. we're going to go to a quick break. we'll be right back with more of the breaking developments not only from france but also some new raids apparently happening as well in belgium. we'll be right back. e it up. that's today? we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. after the deliveries, i was ok. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? for my pain, i want my aleve. get all day minor arthritis pain relief
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on the a-34 auto route. you drive about three hours out of paris. charleville is on the edge of the ardenne forest. it's if a very dense area of the countryside. and all we know is that police have been trying to gain entry to a building there. these kinds of things are happening throughout the countryside. we know about the raids in paris. but all the way through and into belgium. and they have included raids in germany over the past few days. chris jansing continues to stand by for us in paris. and we -- chris, i guess it will be some time before we learn the outcome of this. >> reporter: it will, brian. and we haven't learned about these, as you pointed out, unless for some reason something happens that draws public attention. in this case, there was an
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explosion. remember, as of about 24 hours ago, we learned that in france, there had already been 414 of these raids. and we only heard about a very few of them. of course, including the one that went on for more than seven hours yesterday. but as you said, this is happening in this town that is near the belgian border. and a police spokesman has confirmed to nbc news that they did set off some sort of -- detonated some sort of explosive to blow open the door. we don't know if it's a standalone home, if it's an apartment. but they were trying to gain entry into this place. and a spokesman also said that they were able to do this under these emergency powers. after the friday night attacks, 12 days of emergency powers went into effect. and among other things, it allows them to do these kinds of raids without any sort of warrant. and it is worth updating, brian, that just this morning, the lower house here in france approved a three-month extension
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to those 12 days of a state of emergency. the upper house is expected to vote tomorrow. and it is widely expected to pass. and as you mentioned, just part of a series of raids throughout the region in belgium today, nine more, nine people arrested. several of them in homes in brussels. again, all part of what is this ongoing effort to take every piece of information that they have following up on every lead. and they have said that those leads have been coming in and, in fact, it was a combination of a cell phone that was found and a lead that they apparently got from the neighborhood in saint-denis yesterday that led to the death of the ringleader of the friday night attacks, brian. but the name of the place, you said it with your french accent better than mine, charleville-mezieres about three hours away from where i am. >> chris jansing in paris.
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such a force multiplier for investigators that the citizenry is invested, everyone is attuned, and the phrase new yorkers have come to know so well, if you see something, say something has become just as widely used across france and across paris. in this country, this morning on "morning joe," in a rare interview with the defense secretary, ashton carter, there was an exchange about the footing the united states is on vis-a-vis the attacks in paris. here it is. >> you agree with the french president that we're at war. >> yeah. >> with isis. >> i think francois hollande has said it very well. i'm glad the french are galvanized in joining the fight now. we're starting to go after fuel convoys now, which is something we figured out how to do because isil uses the oil infrastructure as a way to raise money. >> explain that because there
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had been hesitation to go after the fuel trucks. >> the oil infrastructure is something that the civilian population benefits from as well. they want to punish. you have to first of all -- and this gets into intelligence -- identify that part of the energy infrastructure which is being used by isil to finance their operations. so we had to identify that. and then you want to get a convoy, when it's not in the middle of a town, when it's outside the middle of the road, that takes intelligence. >> right. >> and we're getting better and better at this every day. >> so chiefly there, the news was at the first part there of that snippet of audio, the defense secretary here in the u.s. agreeing with the assessment of the french president that we are at war with isis, which brings us to our man at the pentagon, jim miklaszewski. and jim, i guess the question is what is war with isis going to look like to an american?
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>> well, brian, for some time now, the u.s. has been using primarily airstrikes. and everybody in the military agrees, you cannot win a war or defeat an enemy with airstrikes alone. they've been relying pretty heavily on indigenous forces. unfortunately the only effective forces have been the kurds in the north part of iraq. and, in fact, also in syria. the iraqi forces have not been able to step up and retake the kind of territory that the u.s. military says is absolutely necessary. and the president, last week, indicated and announced, actually, that he's approved the deployment of 50 u.s. special operations forces to work with the kurds inside syria. he will not say it's boots on the ground because he said they will still be in an advise and assist role, but they will be much closer to the action than they ever have been before. and the likelihood that they
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could get drawn into combat at any given time is pretty high. and, you know, a few weeks ago we had a special operations soldier killed in an operation with the kurds in iraq. and it was ash carter, surprisingly, while the administration danced around the issue, was this or was this not combat, it was ash carter, the sec def, who said openly to a question of mine, well, yeah, it was combat, and we're going to do more of these operations in the future, brian. >> jim miklaszewski at the pentagon where there's been this debate over the use of forward air controllers. these are members of the military who cannot only help guide in airstrikes, but they also assess what that airstrike hit or did not hit. and for more on all things military, let's go to tamron. >> thank you, brian. let's bring in msnbc military analyst retired army colonel jack jacobs.
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colonel, thanks so much for joining. the first headline is about this coalition force who can lead and truly who is committed at this point now you have russia saying that isis brought down that jetliner. you have france now with more skin in the game, to use something, a casual reference, but can this all be pulled together effectively? >> well, i think it can if all the participants are serious about putting sufficient forces on the ground, as you heard jim talking about, on the ground authorized to take advantage of the attacks that will be made from the air. i think it's really interesting that in the same breath you said the united states, france and russia. that's the first time in 70 years the three of us have been together. a lot of questions about whether or not putin can be trusted. i think at the end of the day, it's irrelevant whether or not putin can be trusted. it looks like we're beginning to coalesce into a relationship we haven't had for 70 years. >> colonel, but how would you describe it -- and brian was talking with mik about it -- how would you describe what's been
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happening in the last year? i say that after the attacks friday. saturday morning we woke up to airstrikes. the assumption that the u.s. shared information with france. we've seen a series of airstrikes from russia as well. but to the question that brian asked mik, what's been hit? what type of real damage has been caused to isis and its infrastructure? >> well, we don't know, obviously. >> why don't we know? >> well, we don't know because our intelligence is not all that good unless, as it was suggested, you have people on the ground who are actually calling in the airstrikes, identifying them, and then doing what is called a bda, a bomb damage assessment, on the ground afterwards. you'll never know whether or not you hit good targets or bad. your intelligence was good or bad. and what further targets need to be hit. that's why we need folks -- somebody needs folks on the ground to do that. >> hillary clinton in her speech talked about the kurds and what happened in raqqah. and we saw the kurds forces walk through that city with their flags. she also discussed the still-needed strategy and training iraqi forces.
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it seems she showed more confidence in kurdish forces than the iraqi troops that we've invested treasure and billions of dollars at this point to train. >> well, the kurds have been our allies for a long, long time. and they're extremely good at what they do. they're tactically and technically proficient. the down side of using only kurds is that there are not that very many of them. and they're not interested in taking over anywhere. >> they don't have the same priority we have. >> no, they're willing to be willing to fight anybody to make sure that happens. at the end of the day, you need lots more people than just the kurds on the one hand. and on the other hand, the kurds are not sufficient to actually seize and hold all the terrain you need to seize and hold in order to get rid of isis and make sure that the remaining area gets administered properly. relying on kurds alone, that's not going to work. we need more people on the ground. and that has to be, as you suggest, a coalition -- international coalition force. by the way, we've heard nothing
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about the people in the region who really could benefit from getting rid of these guys. saudi arabia, iran, even. >> but hillary clinton mentioned bringing in the sunnis and creating an effective coalition with sunnis. >> we better start doing it. when she says what we really need is use of diplomatic instrument, that's where it needs to be headed. if we just talk about putting a coalition together, we will never get into the coalition to fight these guys appropriately. all those actors in the region who really have a stake in the outcome, we better get cracking with it. >> thank you very much. up next, we go live back to europe as a raid is under way right now near the french border with belgium. chris jansing and our team still on the ground and we will bring you the very latest. u do all the perfect car. gas mileage, horsepower torque ratios. three spreadsheets later you finally bring home the one. then smash it into a tree. your insurance company's all too happy to raise your rates. maybe you should've done a little more
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we are back with more breaking news from france and a raid we are told is under way now near the border of belgium. chris jansing is standing by. we have seen hundreds of raids in the last few days. we now know the ringleader of
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the attacks was killed in one of the raids yesterday. nevertheless, why is this particular one getting so much attention right now? >> reporter: because they heard it. when you think of the number of raids that as of 24 hours ago, there had been 414 raids in france alone, but we only knew about a handful of them. in this case, it's because the explosion was heard. police have confirmed to nbc news that they detonated an explosive to gain access to this home in charleville, about three hours north of where i am in paris. it's very near the border with belgium. it's also about three hours away from the capital there of brussels. the other thing we were able to get confirmed is that this was done under the state of emergency. this gives french police extraordinary powers. there are states of emergency that they can declare in all european countries, but few have the sweeping powers that this allows french police, including
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the ability to just go in and do a search of a private home. it also allows them to confiscate any kind of gun or other kind of weapon, whether or not they have been obtained legally. so they have confirmed for us that using these powers they have gone into this home. why exactly who they think might be there, we don't know. this is not a hotbed of terrorist activity as far as we know. a quick search finds that what this town of 60,000 is mostly known for is a yearly marionette festival. it also gives you an idea of the g geographic scopes of the raids we have been seeing since the terror attacks here on friday night. one more note. it coincides with a series of searches that have been done in belgium, including some of them in brussels of homes in brussels. six of them according to officials are related to one of the people who was a suicide bomber at the stadium on friday
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night. tamron? >> what we do know again, the ringleader of these attacks killed. however, we also know that the global manhunt for salah abdeslam, the 26-year-old who is the focus of this global dragnet, is still under way and any other possible accomplices. the story certainly does continue as does our coverage here at msnbc. i'm tamron hall. we will pick up with andrea mitchell after a break. this is more than just a town. this is our home. and small business saturday... is more than just a day. it's our day... to shop small at the places we love...
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compared to the alternatives. push! i am pushing! sfx: pants ripping how you doing eddie? almost there. small steps. at axa, we'll help you take the next steps, with more confidence. for advice, retirement and insurance, talk to axa today. joining me now, claudio lavanga. this is andrea mitchell reporting from washington. claudio, right now there are raids going on along the french side, i believe, of the border with belgium, and we are also being told by intelligence sources here in washington that the belgian officials missed several opportunities to get some of these guys before the attack. what can you tell us? >> reporter: well, they did. the federal prosecution office just issued a news statement in which it said that the raids
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that took place overnight into the early hours of this morning were in fact nine, not six or seven as previously said. now six of them were in connection to one of the three suicide bombers last friday outside of the stadium in france. apparently the prosecution has said that hafdi has been under investigation since he left belgium to syria at the beginning of the year. this of course raises even more questions than answers. how is it possible that such a guy under surveillance, under investigation, could just travel back to europe maybe passing through belgium, ended up in paris. he cooperated in this very elaborate operation. he was able to obtain a suicide vest and activate it outside of the stade de france. now there were

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