tv Lockup Cleveland - Extended Stay MSNBC November 20, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm PST
tonight two countries are under a state of emergency, first france and now mali in northwestern africa after a terrorist attack there killed 20 people. we just learned the identity of the one american killed there in mali, anita datar. a statement from her family she's survived by her son, brother, parents and many friends around the world. president obama just addressed the mali attack before his scheduled remarks on the transpacific partnership in malaysia. the president said this just strengthens our resolve. this is a another reminder of the scourge of terrorism. in brussels the terror threat has been risen to its highest level. they characterized it as a serious imminent threat for the
brussels region. today's mali's capital city was the site of a deadly armed attack when armed jihadists took siege of a hotel that lasted for more than seven hours. richard engel has the latest. >> reporter: just a week after paris another terrorist attack. in mali targeting the capital's most luxurious hotel. inside three gunmen armed with grenades and assault rifles holding some 170 hostages cluing a dozen americans. the terrorist released those who could prove they were muslim by reciting passages from the koran. a body under a blanket shows what they did to those who couldn't. those jihadis they killed everyone, anything that was moving said one of the hotel staff. upstairs, terrified hotel guests barricaded themselves in their
rooms. reinforcements arrived helped by two american special forces soldiers who happened to be nearby and joined the effort. the siege continued all day, until security forces finally managed to overpower and kill the gunman and free the rest of the hostages. but by then at least 19 hostages including one american and a malian soldier were dead. the group claiming responsibility an african jihadi organization linked to al qaeda. >> it's no secret to anybody that al qaeda options continue to exist, and to grow in africa. that's why we're working so hard in the international community to find ways combat groups like this. >> reporter: nbc news can't verify the claim but the group has attacked westerners in mali before and it's thought the french backed government of mali a former french colony. this might not have been isis but now islamic militant groups ofry where are flying the flag of global jihad.
a peace conference was about to start at that hotel which is the main hotel in bamako, where people stay and conferences are held. this was a peace conference why so many diplomats, aid workers, u.s. military personnel and other officials were gathered there for a high-profile event. could it have been the target. that would explain the timing. lawrence. >> richard engel in paris. joining us now from paris, chris hayes, and lieutenant colonel anthony schaefer. he served as an intelligence officer in the army conducted intelligence and special operations in mali and in that region in 2002-2003. with us also is jan berger. chris hayes, the obvious question tonight for french authorities is what is the link
between mali and the attacks in paris, do french authorities see this as some kind of retaliation against france? i guess we don't have chris hayes' sound working. colonel schaefer what's your reaction to the possibility of a linkage between this and what's happening in paris? >> i think it's a good chance this is related both to fact that the french have been very active in mali as well as the leader of iraqi to call for all al qaeda units to rise up. he released a tape where he called for this very sort of thing to happen. as stipulated in the opening, i think it's very clear you see all the radical elements of all flavors now kind of rising up. if nothing else they were inspired by the attack in paris and you'll see more of this.
>> we have chris hayes' sound working now from paris. chris, if you can hear me, i'm wondering what we're getting from french authorities in terms of their reaction to what happened in mali? do they see it as linked as to the attacks in paris? >> there hasn't been any mention so far of any link between the two french authorities as far as i know. although the fact that they took some risk by sending french troops into mali when the civil war broke out means that this is once again on france's door step justin wake of what happened here in paris. we should also note something else key which is that in the global sense what we've seen is that terrorism is most likely not in places like paris or places like brussels it's most intense, most deadly and most likely in places that are functionally failing or failed states, places of civil war,
that's true in the tribalal areas of pakistan, true in mali and syria, iraq and libya and other places like that. if you look at the totality of deaths to terrorism the vast majority and nigeria as well, come in some sort of rebellion or territorial conflict. >> jan berger, what about this possible sense of competition between al qaeda and isis? is that present in a situation like this after isis has a big display in paris, al qaeda wants to have its own display like this? >> well, an operation like this probably was planned for some time so, they didn't just see paris and decide to pull this off. i think where the competition element comes in really is that particularly al qaeda, and the two groups that were claiming this attack saw a loss of
recruits and splintering because of the appeal of isis. there's some pressure possibly to step up operations to keep the foot soldiers happy, to make people feel like they are in an organization that's dynamic. >> president obama has just spoken about the mali attacks. we just obtained that video. let's listen to that now. >> before i begin i want to say a few words about the appalling terrorist attack in mali. we're still learning the facts. but what we do know is that gunmen stormed the hotel in the capital of bamako that was filled with citizens from a number of nations. many were there to help people of mali build a lasting peace. the terrorists began to ruthlessly killing people and taking hostages. on behalf of the american people i want to express by deepest condo len evens to the people of mali and victims families including at least one american.
these were innocent people who had everything to live for. and they will be remembered for the joy and love that they brought to the world. and we are grateful to all who responded, and risked their own lives to save others. we have security forces and all our diplomat agents rushed in to pull people to safety. french troops and american forces who were in the country for training missions provided support as did the united nations forces. thanks to the swift action and skill of all involved many people escaped. lives were saved. and the terrorists were prevented from causing even more bloodshed. but i want the american people to know that we're still working to account for americans who may have been at the hotel and to ensure the safety of all of our citizens in mali.
like the heinous attacks we saw in paris, attacks we see all too often elsewhere this is another awful reminder that the scourge of terrorism threaten so many of our nations. once again this barbarity stiffens our resolve to meet this challenge. we'll stand with the people of mali as they work to rid their country of terrorists. with allies and partners the united states will be relentless against those who target our citizens. we'll continue to root out terrorist networks. we will not allow these killers to have a safe-haven. as i've seen throughout my trip this week, nations around the world including countries represented here today are united in our determination to protect our people, to push back on the hateful ideologies that fuel this terrorism, and to stan up for the universal ovals of
tolerance and respect for human dignity that unites us and make us stronger than any terrorist. it's the work we must do together. it's the future that we have to build together. and that's why i'm here today. >> chris hayes, president's remarks verging on anger with this terrorism in effect following him around the world as he makes this trip, this pre-planned trip before the attacks in paris that occurred and there he is again tonight responding to yet another attack. >> yeah. i thought that the law and barbarity and hitting the note that richard wren gel pointing out that this was done on the eve of the peace conference and done for a reason, right? to destroy the chances for peace because terrorism tends to thrive on war. the president also i think striking a more noticeably
harsher note. i mean there was so much backlash after his press conference in the wake of the paris attacks, and pot he and john kerry's responses were to many and to myself in some ways was sober mined and clear eyed but lacked i think what certain folks inside the u.s. felt was sufficient outrage or sufficient emotionality. the president showing some of that in that address flight. >> the president of mali issued a statement saying we don't want to scare our people but we have already said that mali will have to get used to situations like this. we must all remain humble. no one, nowhere is safe given the danger of terrorism. jan berger, i guess a realistic assessment of the situation there. >> yeah. i mean what we have seen in the last few years is that one person or a small group of people can wreak tremendous damage. so eight people acting in concert with support from others
were able to paralyze an entire city. in boston a couple of years ago two guys were able to paralyze an entire city. so, i mean we can do a lot to try to prevent these things. we can improve our response when an incident happens. but i mean i don't think we're looking at a situation where we can, anybody really can say, you know, our country is going to put an end to this. >> chris hayes, in paris tonight here we are exactly one week from the attacks. you've been there through the week. what is the feeling in paris tonight? does it feel as though they are entering a new phase, or is it -- is last friday like yesterday there? >> you know, it's hard to say. i think tonight marks some kind of new phase because, of course, the first saturday night, obviously, everyone was in mourning and grief-stricken and shocked. this is the first weekend night since the attacks. it was a week there were
jubilant crowds, defyantsly jubilant crowds that gathered here in the place de la republique. there's been people behind me here coming out after a long night of drinking coming to pay their respects to the memorial. there's more people out each day that we have been here. at the same time, look, france is under a state of emergency. the national legislative body has voted for the suspension of warrants and indeterminate evidence. there's a very, at the policy level particularly a very kind of post-911 feel to things being contemplated and there's real fear, there's real shakiness on the part of the french populace a week late sneerp chris hayes thank you very much for staying up late for your final report for us tonight from paris the
final report of the week. jan berger thank you for joining us. colonel schaefer we need you to join the discussion on the cyber war. coming up we have new information tonight about how french police discovered the location of the terrorists who planned the paris attacks. and the cyber war is now on between anonymous and the islamic state. and the author of this tweet, hate donald trump i'm an american muslim and i already carry a special i.d. badge, where's your? that i.d. badge, of course, being marine i'vation. former marine sergeant, tarib rasheed will join us. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪
donald trump, calling, claiming that the thing that he called a university promised, among other things, an experience that would rival wharton business school which as you know is the greatest school in the world and the school that donald trump went to. this week trump and his online school lost a bid to dismiss the claims made by those disappointed students. the class action lawsuit will proceed to a pre-trial hearing in january. up next we'll give the latest on france's ongoing state of emergency. >> this resolution is a powerful international recognition of the threat posed by isil. it's a call to action, to member states that have the capacity to do so to take all necessary measures in compliance with international law to prevent and suppress terrorist acts committed by isil and other
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one. to 130. after one of the people gravely wounded in the attack died in the hospital. raids are also continuing in belgium where officials have filed charges against another suspect they believe was involved in last week's attacks. the belgian's prosecutor's office says the suspect has been charged with participation in terrorist attacks and even participation in the activities of a terrorist organization. we now have new video of wednesday's raid that killed the ring leader of the attack. this video captures the moment when a suicide bomber detonates a vest. [ explosion ] >> there's also new informationing tonight about how the french police discovered the wring leader's location. joining us now with though details white house correspondent and u.s. bureau chief. what can you tell us? >> police received a tip from an
ordinary citizen. they had the phone number, cell phone number and they had some people on sunday all over the country to call them. and the citizen called them. called it 911 terrorist number, gave it to 911 tips and said i think i saw abdelhamid abaaoud and you might try to go to this location. the police were extremely surprised, the police people and decided to put surveillance on his cousin and followed the cousin and find out in less than 48 hours that booed was in this apartment since sunday and very quickly they decided after following this woman, that it was time for them to launch the ride.
>> wow. so this was just what they call in the states, do something, say something. this was just a citizen with open eyes who thought he was seeing something. >> yes. absolutely. he called, we don't know if it's a man or woman but we know it's a regular citizen and he was probably from the area. he knew something extremely well my sources are telling me. >> you have new information tonight about the suicide bombers at the stadium. what is that? >> there were three suicide bombers. it's a part of the story we should watch because investigators have a lot of information about the suicide bombers and how they arrived to paris. the first one is bilal hadfi. he was from belgium and morocco. abdelhamid abaaoud, the architect of the attacks also has some family ties with morocco.
morocco is part of this story. so the teenager, he was 20 years old exploded inside was a regular person until last year he was listening to rock music, according to his family. then nobody knows why he went to sir area radicalized himself, began to be extremely religious, he said good-bye to his mother in the beginning of 2015 and in march of 2015 he completely vanished and went to syria. he came back. we don't know how he came back and he exploded himself. the two other suicide bombers had syrian passports. what's interesting is one guy had a syrian passport and the french investigators took the syrian passporter and looked at the name. the name is the name of a soldier, a dead soldier that was working for bashar al assad, and this soldier he's dead several
months ago so they don't believe that this passport is, in fact, they believe this passport is a fake passport. so the bomber is still in the stadium. they don't think he's syrian. they are trying to know how he came to france and the investigators think that this syrian came from greece. so you see you have a global network, very structured. we see people coming from syria going to greece, going to paris, and of course, create as lot of question for the french about how people are coming to france to commit attacks. >> well, do they have evidence indicating that they moved, are any of these terrorists moved with syrian refugees or among syrian refugees?
>> as you know, lawrence, it's a very sensitive question. it's a very sensitive question for france and also for you in the united states. we don't know precisely how these people came from greece to france. i spoke a lot with some people who are really following that and they are saying that there's two ways to come from greece to france. you can take a car, cross europe very easily with a fake passport. it's simple. or another possibility, of course they are looking at, they don't know, they want to emphasize they don't know, you might join a group of refugees and cross. they don't know what happened. they think at this moment that most them didn't use refugee groups but used fake passports. >> the belgium terror alert raising to it the highest level but doing it seven days after the attacks in paris, what's that about?
>> it's extremely -- all the people in france who are in belgium are extremely concerned about the same thing might happen again. you have to remember, we should emphasize that there's a guy that fired at the restaurant, this guy was from belgium. he's probably in belgium at this moment. they don't know if he's alive, not alive. they cannot look at him. they are extremely worried about this man and, again, the belgium people should be careful, that's what the police are telling them tonight. >> thank you very much for your invaluable perspective all week. we really appreciate it. >> you're welcome. >> thank you. coming up -- >> the muslim marine tweet ad message for donald trump about i.d.s and muslims living in america. he'll join us next.
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had. joining us now, former marine sergeant tarib rasheed who tweets at muslim marine m and a riern. i have to tell you when i saw that tweet last night i immediately sent to it the producers of this show and said how do we get him, how do we fine him. thank you very much for joining us tonight. i really appreciate it. obviously you were reacting to donald trump's comments first in an interview where he was suggesting that maybe all muslims should be, american muslims in a database and possibly with an i.d. identifying them that way. this was your reaction to that. how did it feel to have the front-runner of the republican presidential nomination say there is one religious group that should be identified as that so everyone can know who they are. >> first of all, lawrence, thank you very much for having me and
thank you for this opportunity. as a member of the muslim community, my father who is a missionary raised myself and my siblings with certain american values, and one of those very important values is that loyalty to your nation is part of your faith. and so i lived by those values. i try to embody those values. and as a result of those values and that specific value, i decided that the best way that i could serve my country, the united states, was to serve in the armed forces. and so having served in the armed forces, having been with brothers of all different races, colors and creeds and different faith, look we all bleed red, white and blue. when you have a front-runner candidate like donald trump making statements that seem to divide our society and divide our armed forces, you know it just hit a nerve with me and i
had to respond. so i am very honored that there's many americans, as a matter of fact, if you can look at the number of tweets we've had, many americans agreed with that sentiment and i'm very grateful for that. >> your tweet has flown all around the world. and, of course, as we know, it should be noted that donald trump, when his, the day came in his life to decide whether to do military service during the period when when he a draft in the vietnam war he did everything he could possibly do to evade service in the military. so, let's listen to what donald trump, the first statement donald trump made on video about this. let's watch this and listen to this. >> should be a lot of systems beyond database. we should have a lot of systems. today you can do it. but right now we have to have a border, we have to have strength, we have to have a wall
and we can't let what's happening to this country what happen in new york. absolutely. >> how do you get them registered sfwhiept be good manners. you have to do good management procedures and we can do that. >> where would you go? mosque? >> different places. you sign them up at different places. but it's all about management. our country has no management. >> do you believe in this database -- >> they have to be. they have been. >> now, tarib, he's feeling the heat from this one and so he has done the usual donald trump thing simply lie and pretend that he never said what you just saw him say. he tweeted i didn't suggest a database, a reporter did. now, he said, we just heard him say that of course he would implement that, absolutely. he talked about how would you
get people registered into the database. he answers that. he says you would do it through good management. that's how he would track you down, tarib. that's how he would track you down and get new to his database and issue that i.d. he would do it through good management. >> yeah. you know, that's donald trump for you, right? i mean, at the end of the day i think what most americans recognize and muslims as we band together is that, look, we're going get-together and we're going to continue in the future and continue to advance this country together and each and every single one of us whether muslim, christian, jew, we're all-important element of the fabric of american society. and as the leader of, you know, the muslim community, his
holiness has said over and over again that service to humanity is part of every muslim's duty. and so in response to that the muslim community and myself as a member, we have engaged in activities that serve our fellow americans. we had blood drives. we actually collected hundreds of thousands of units of blood. we've had many peace rallies. you know, look we're not going back down. we're open to dialogue. we're open to help people understand that the islamic faith is a peaceful one. and if a person has a disposition that's violent or a disposition that's hateful they are going to act on those instincts regardless of what faith they are. so, we're here to build bridges and i'm here to build bridges with my fellow americans. you know, people like donald trump, i feel, you know, sad because they are in a position
to build bridges and instead what they do is just divide us and i think that's really unfortunate. >> sergeant tarib rasheed, thank you very much for joining us. i look at twitter hoping, hoping to find things that i don't know. in fact, hoping to find things for this show. and so just about 24 hours ago when i saw your tweet i knew i had to get you on here. so thank you very much for joining us. i really appreciate it. >> thank you, lawrence, my pleasure. >> coming up hacker group anonymous reports on what they call their success in their declared cyber war against isis. this guy from engineering says
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after french president francois hollande declared war on the islamic state this week, the hacker collective known as anonymous has declared cyber war on isis. here's nbc's pete williams. >> reporter: they wear identical matchings in their video and target u.s. government shutting down government websites and posting private information
online. in a string of videos anonymous says it's on government's side declaring war on isis. >> we will retaliate not with violence but with our intelligence of hacking. >> reporter: the video in many languages went viral prompting widespread support. it's about time somebody has a good effective plan. keep up the fight i just hope the world governments are doing their part offline. the target the relentless isis propaganda campaign on social media. some claim they got more than 5,500 accounts suspended with more than 100 isis websites shut down since the group first went after isis a year ago opinion experts say making a dents in the isis social media machine won't be easy because banned accounts can be quickly renamed. >> somebody can easily change their name on twitter or facebook. it's whack-a-mole. >> reporter: a stanford expert says what anonymous is doing can be a useful nuisance. >> when you get harassed you're less effective in doing your
work. so while they are recovering from harassments they are not doing as many bad things as they were doing before. >> reporter: the government welcomes anything to weakent terrorism. but some don't want isis taken off social media because it's a place where potential recruits can be tracked. pete williams, nbc, washington. >> joining us now is the editor. msnbc's discovery desk and lieutenant colonel anthony schaefer. cal is anonymous helping? >> it looks like they are finally and this is a group that actions have lifted like a list of felonies. they went after the church of scietology. they hit via, mastercard, paypal, sony, sony pictures. the government has had them at the top target list. now they are exposing these twitter accounts, trying to get this information out there. not only for the u.s. government but other hackers will go and
shut down these accounts. >> carl schafer, we have one comment in pete williams report, one commentator saying this is ineffectual it doesn't happen much. >> the guy is wrong. first our government is effective in detecting these accounts. they did according to my pentagon sources, isis spent 72 hours roll out twitter campaign encouraging their brothers and sisters for the jihad in paris. we missed it. so clearly something is wrong. we're not having law enforcement manage these accounts. secondly, isis is actually using social media as stipulated very effectively. anything you can do to throw these obstacles in the way is good. more importantly you can't classify technology. you can't make technology secret. in this case i think anonymous can do some very aggressive what i would call offensive information operation, offensive technology operations we developed in the '90s to go in
and do some disruption for their economic and command and control. some of these groups, lawrence, have been using facebook as methods of communicating each other's command and control methods. >> "the washington post" had a report today about just how important the cyber world is to isis. they report that senior media operatives are treated as emirs of equal rank to their military counterparts. they are directly involved in decisions on strategy and territory. they preside over hundred of video graphers, producers and editors who form a privileged professional class with status, salaries and living arrangements that are the envy of ordinary fighters. >> it's a bit crazy. they have a 24 i.t. help desk. we know this from analysts that are throes the u.s. army. that's nuts. we used to say isis was social media savvy. they are just media savvy.
it's like they are building a media library. they go back, dip into that video and put in these messages. the other thing that's worth men shopping it takes a lot of guts to put on a suicide belt, takes lot of crazy and evil to walk into a public place with a gun and kill innocent people. doesn't take a lot of gusts to be inspired to put out a tweet, put something online, misinformation. that's a problem accepts for the u.s. military how do you shut that down? you shut down one site three more pop up. >> colonel schaefer, is the nsa trying to do the same thing that anonymous is trying to do? >> yes. i was meeting with some sources on this today, and we're way behind. you need a hybrid. you can't have nsa do it. you have to have case officers like me. we pioneered this operation back in the late '90s where you put a linguist and technical support.
anonymous doesn't have the oversight requirements we have but it can to be done. the question now becomes can we catch up or more importantly can we do joint operations. look i'm not against, the common enemy is isis. i'm very much for reaching out to anonymous through our sources and working together cohesively. this is a very important target. people inside the ranks of isis are treated like rock stars. they are also now targeting individuals, military individuals online to actually try to plan military, terrorist operations against them. so, again this, is no small issue. >> quick break. we'll come back with more on the cyber war and hillary clinton wants tech companies to cooperate with government surveillance programs. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪
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as mentioned in our last segment the isis state has a 24 hour help desk which among other things is there to show its followers how to use encryption software. these programs allow users to go dark by encrypting messages until the message is received, they make it very difficult for law enforcement to monitor that stuff. earlier this week senator diane feinstein said this. >> i think silicon valley has to take a look at their products because if you create a product that allows evil monsters to communicate in this way to behead children, to strike innocents, whether it's at a game in a stadium in a small restaurant in paris, take down an airliner, that's a big problem. >> cal perry, since the snowden revelations, silicon valley has
been moving away from cooperation with the government. >> yeah. absolutely. i think that's been the popular thing to do to protect civil liberties and that's exceptionally important. but we've reached a new reality where isis is penetrating in ways in which they haven't, where science lie convalley needs to pitch in and help out. we're seeing a change in the way we educate our kids. it's the next generation that is going to take this fight on. the kids who are learning mind craft and how to program from the first grade on i think that's who will take this fight to isis. >> let's listen to what hillary clinton had to say about this. it's basically the same thing. we've just heard diane feinstein say. >> we need silicon valley, not to view government as its adversary, we need to challenge our best minds in the private-sector to work with our best minds in the public sector. to develop solutions that will both keep us safe and protect our privacy.
now is the time to solve this problem, not after the next attack. >> colonel schafer it's hard to imagine a democratic presidential candidate saying that, making that very argument six months ago in the age of snowden but this became a very unpopular thing to say on hillary clinton's side of our politics. >> this is a very difficult challenge. let's be honest here. terror groups, mafias all these different organizations always the first to be adapters of new technology. lawrence, we faced drug groups in the '90s who had pgp. pgp was pretty good protection. this is not a new challenge. the question now becomes how do you reach out to the private-sector to get them to start trusting you again based on the revelations of snowden and more importantly how do you parse between legitimate encryption and those used by evil doers.
what you have to do. you have to get someone flupd a human intelligence plant a double agent or someone inside because that way you can actually avoid having to do a lot of external penetration. ultimately we talk about insider threats here all time. we need to get inside of what they are doing that way we know exactly what's going on within that. we need to do both. look at the technology. then again go back to the second oldest profession of clandestine operations. >> the big question that's been developing and we don't have the time to resolve it here, but the snowden effect on intelligence gathering in the war against the seahawk state and this kind of terrorism, do you have a sense of how to describe that effect at this point, if any >> i think as you said, what's become the overriding factor is operational security. everybody has really tried to
keep things secret as best they can and it's a fine line to walk because now is the time where we should share information, potentially and try to beat the threat together. >> we have to leave it there for tonight. we'll have much more coming up. thank you both very much for joining us tonight. coming up, how do you explain the paris attacks to a child? a french child. that's coming up. indeed the last word of our if everyone jumped off a cliff, would you do it too? you'll lose interest. it's just a phase. it hurts me more than it hurts you. where are your manners - were you raised by wolves? you're going to give me a heart attack. when you have kids, you'll understand. this is the life of a rebel. sorry, mom.
everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? now tonight's last word. tonight the last word goes to a little boy, brandon lee who was interviewed with his father on french television.
another attack. this is "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. i want to start tonight by making what i believe to be an important historic point. the number one goal of the mideast terrorists is to ignite an east/west war that forces moderate arab governments from power and establishes a caliphate in their place. only through such a war can they achieve this goal.